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View Full Version : Jetblue JFK ALPA billboard


TCASTESTOK
11-26-2017, 09:27 AM
So ALPA rented out a billboard at JFK that states Jetblue pilots deserve a contract with the hashtag #contractaboveall. What are your thoughts on this? How is it an effective strategy to engage the public about a contract dispute?


Bluedriver
11-26-2017, 09:39 AM
I don't know you and don't think it's appropriate to answer your questions in public. I am also not a decision maker, just a line pilot and have no idea what the strategy is.

What I do know is: what we were doing wasn't working.

CaptCoolHand
11-26-2017, 09:42 AM
I believe heís a troll.


Otterbox
11-26-2017, 09:58 AM
So ALPA rented out a billboard at JFK that states Jetblue pilots deserve a contract with the hashtag #contractaboveall. What are your thoughts on this? How is it an effective strategy to engage the public about a contract dispute?

Negative PR campaigns are very effective in ďspeedingĒ along contract negotiations and have unfortunately become almost a step in the process when you look at recent history of contract negotiations. Passive activities like billboards serve to make the general public aware that there are contract negotiations ongoing.

Once passive activities become more ďactiveĒ and stories in the media begin to highlight pay disparities between employees and management as well as ďsafetyĒ issues start to negatively affect public opinion and customers start to shy away from traveling on a specific airline then management seems to be more motivated to pass a CBA in order to quiet the masses.

Bottom line? Around 2-4 years to a CBA From this point. Labor relations arenít tenuous enough to affect brand image. Once Brand image is shaken sufficiently enough then a deal will be struck.

TCASTESTOK
11-26-2017, 10:38 AM
When I drove past I was thinking umm okay... never saw a billboard for a pilot contract dispute before.

402DRVR
11-26-2017, 11:15 AM
My .02 is that JetBlue is a marketing company that happens to operate airplanes. Bad press of any kind impacts the brand image that JetBlue works very hard to create. Thus any chipping away at that brand image we can do may have an impact. I say may because I have never been through this at an airline and am on unfamiliar ground like many of us.

PasserOGas
11-26-2017, 11:39 AM
When I drove past I was thinking umm okay... never saw a billboard for a pilot contract dispute before.

Really? Read this.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-sta-southwest-pilots-lawsuit-chicago-0515-20160514-story.html

Southerner
11-26-2017, 11:51 AM
Negative PR campaigns are very effective in ďspeedingĒ along contract negotiations and have unfortunately become almost a step in the process when you look at recent history of contract negotiations. Passive activities like billboards serve to make the general public aware that there are contract negotiations ongoing.



Once passive activities become more ďactiveĒ and stories in the media begin to highlight pay disparities between employees and management as well as ďsafetyĒ issues start to negatively affect public opinion and customers start to shy away from traveling on a specific airline then management seems to be more motivated to pass a CBA in order to quiet the masses.



Bottom line? Around 2-4 years to a CBA From this point. Labor relations arenít tenuous enough to affect brand image. Once Brand image is shaken sufficiently enough then a deal will be struck.



Have you actually spoken to a negotiator, or did you pull that timeline from your butt? Nevermind, I know the answer.

PasserOGas
11-26-2017, 11:57 AM
Have you actually spoken to a negotiator, or did you pull that timeline from your butt? Nevermind, I know the answer.


Southerner bought ad space in the local classifieds.

"Jetblue! Its better than waiting tables! Stop being so ungrateful!"

BlueJetDork
11-26-2017, 12:14 PM
Negative PR campaigns are very effective in “speeding” along contract negotiations and have unfortunately become almost a step in the process when you look at recent history of contract negotiations. Passive activities like billboards serve to make the general public aware that there are contract negotiations ongoing.

Once passive activities become more “active” and stories in the media begin to highlight pay disparities between employees and management as well as “safety” issues start to negatively affect public opinion and customers start to shy away from traveling on a specific airline then management seems to be more motivated to pass a CBA in order to quiet the masses.

Bottom line? Around 2-4 years to a CBA From this point. Labor relations aren’t tenuous enough to affect brand image. Once Brand image is shaken sufficiently enough then a deal will be struck.
Sounds like an echo chamber of wishful thinking.

Say $212 an hour and watch the public try to multiply that by 40 hours a week.

Wall St just wants to know what to add to their model and when. Other than that they really don't care, either.

The bill boards are more about ALPA pumping up jetblue pilots.

I heard if we don't have something by summer (2016, 2017, 2018) then will know where this is headed.

Trouble is we should of known where this was heading in 2006 when the PCG1.0 was released.

PasserOGas
11-26-2017, 12:25 PM
Sounds like an echo chamber of wishful thinking.

Say $212 an hour and watch the public try to multiply that by 40 hours a week.

Wall St just wants to know what to add to their model and when. Other than that they really don't care, either.

The bill boards are more about ALPA pumping up jetblue pilots.

I heard if we don't have something by summer (2016, 2017, 2018) then will know where this is headed.

Trouble is we should of known where this was heading in 2006 when the PCG1.0 was released.

I agree, I personally believe it will take a strike to get industry average. But if we have to strike, I'll want industry leading.

Qotsaautopilot
11-26-2017, 12:31 PM
When I drove past I was thinking umm okay... never saw a billboard for a pilot contract dispute before.

We have them at Spirit. IMO in the wrong locations but yes we have them. Outside JFK is a good choice. Ours arenít near the airport (at least I havenít seen them) and in a state where the public hates unions. Iím still for them. Silence only favors Management stalling.

Jodi
11-26-2017, 01:37 PM
ALPA has often had billboards in Atlanta for Delta pilot negotiations. Any time you can get people, either customers or other employee groups, talking about labor discussions it is helpful.

dogpilot
11-26-2017, 01:48 PM
So ALPA rented out a billboard at JFK that states Jetblue pilots deserve a contract with the hashtag #contractaboveall. What are your thoughts on this? How is it an effective strategy to engage the public about a contract dispute?
My buddy sent me a pic of one of your Billboards. Confusing, who are they trying to influence? Contract above all makes it seem all you selfish pilots care about is your contract, not safety, customers etc. I was confused. Best of luck. I hope you get what you deserve in your contract.

Bluedriver
11-26-2017, 02:32 PM
My buddy sent me a pic of one of your Billboards. Confusing, who are they trying to influence? Contract above all makes it seem all you selfish pilots care about is your contract, not safety, customers etc. I was confused. Best of luck. I hope you get what you deserve in your contract.

Do you know about one of our most heavily used corporate slogans?

Google "JB you above all"

PasserOGas
11-26-2017, 02:55 PM
Do you know about one of our most heavily used corporate slogans?

Google "JB you above all"

I gotta agree with him. Its inside baseball. Your average flyer has no idea what #contractaboveall is referencing.

slimothy
11-26-2017, 04:01 PM
Do you know about one of our most heavily used corporate slogans?

Google "JB you above all"

I work here and I didnít know thatís where it came from. I learned something today.

BunkerF16
11-26-2017, 04:44 PM
I gotta agree with him. Its inside baseball. Your average flyer has no idea what #contractaboveall is referencing.

Your average flyer isn't who those billboards are targeting. Those who it does target, understand exactly what it means.

P-3Bubba
11-26-2017, 05:14 PM
My buddy sent me a pic of one of your Billboards. Confusing, who are they trying to influence? Contract above all makes it seem all you selfish pilots care about is your contract, not safety, customers etc. I was confused. Best of luck. I hope you get what you deserve in your contract.

TROLLS!!!!!! Management spy! TROLL!!!

-Bubs

Bozo the pilot
11-26-2017, 05:55 PM
Southerner bought ad space in the local classifieds.

"Jetblue! Its better than waiting tables! Stop being so ungrateful!"

I saw that on a t-shirt in the display case at OSC. :D

Bozo the pilot
11-26-2017, 05:57 PM
I agree, I personally believe it will take a strike to get industry average. But if we have to strike, I'll want industry leading.

At least a strike vote- once they lost the JD power thing, they could care less about billboards. CBA 2019-yay.

Bluedriver
11-27-2017, 03:39 AM
At least a strike vote- once they lost the JD power thing, they could care less about billboards. CBA 2019-yay.

No-no. It's end of summer 2017. If not end of summer, surely it's by the end of year 2017.




2019 might be optimistic!

Std Deviation
11-27-2017, 04:14 AM
When I drove past I was thinking umm okay... never saw a billboard for a pilot contract dispute before.

I live in DFW. Spirit pilots have one on the freeway just past the airport. It was there yesterday.

Otterbox
11-27-2017, 06:24 AM
Have you actually spoken to a negotiator, or did you pull that timeline from your butt? Nevermind, I know the answer.

Go take a look at other airline contract negotiation timelines for companies with hostile management and look at the steps they had take to get it.

Kalitta took 6.

SWA took 4 and management agreed to a CBA days after an engine exploded and the crew landed the plane safely. The timing of the agreement allowed them to avoid the negative safety news articles that dogged Allegiant during their negotiations. Those types of articles would have brought attention that SWA is now the old Valujet and outlined a history of incidents, regardless of how minor.

As long as the brand isn’t negatively affected by image issues JetBlue management isn’t in a rush to get a CBA that will cost them more money. So far the JetBlue pilot group seems to be fairly docile. Koolaid filled rumors of a contract being just around the corner has kept retention high amongst the pilot group, they’ve targeting recruitment for new hires who aren’t likely to leave based on background and they aren’t suffering from negative press. They can keep the CBA ball rolling slowly.

Softpayman
11-27-2017, 06:37 AM
Go take a look at other airline contract negotiation timelines for companies with hostile management and look at the steps they had take to get it.



SWA took 4 and management agreed to a CBA days after an engine exploded and the crew landed the plane safely. The timing of the agreement allowed them to avoid the negative safety news articles that dogged Allegiant during their negotiations. Those types of articles would have brought attention that SWA is now the old Valujet and outlined a history of incidents, regardless of how minor.



I'd say SWA's had more to do with Delta. Delta was about to up their rates, I think they did the following month. Had SWA management waited, they were looking at an even higher ask by SWAPA.

Tailhookah
11-27-2017, 06:55 AM
It all helps and contributes towards your goal. Right now I'd assume that goal is a timely completion to years of stalled negotiations. At Delta we put up billboards, info picketed and the biggie... voted down a bad... really bad contract offer.

That can go on for years and the company can outlast the pilots... until they feel their bottom line is suffering from a lack of contract.

It all helps. But until there is unity in the group there will be no contract offer. Delta Pilots had never voted NO to any contract in the history of the company. That motivated the company to work towards a quick timeline for the contract we now work under... after voting NO, we were told we'd not see a dime of retro pay. In the end we got full retro.

Good luck Blue Dudes.

...

Bluedriver
11-27-2017, 09:41 AM
It all helps and contributes towards your goal. Right now I'd assume that goal is a timely completion to years of stalled negotiations. At Delta we put up billboards, info picketed and the biggie... voted down a bad... really bad contract offer.

That can go on for years and the company can outlast the pilots... until they feel their bottom line is suffering from a lack of contract.

It all helps. But until there is unity in the group there will be no contract offer. Delta Pilots had never voted NO to any contract in the history of the company. That motivated the company to work towards a quick timeline for the contract we now work under... after voting NO, we were told we'd not see a dime of retro pay. In the end we got full retro.

Good luck Blue Dudes.

...

Thanks Hookah, the "contracts almost done" koolaid is VERY strong around here. It's allowed the sheep to be put out to pasture quite easily and consequently I think we will be lucky to have something by 2019.

Southerner
11-27-2017, 01:29 PM
Go take a look at other airline contract negotiation timelines for companies with hostile management and look at the steps they had take to get it.

Kalitta took 6.

SWA took 4 and management agreed to a CBA days after an engine exploded and the crew landed the plane safely. The timing of the agreement allowed them to avoid the negative safety news articles that dogged Allegiant during their negotiations. Those types of articles would have brought attention that SWA is now the old Valujet and outlined a history of incidents, regardless of how minor.

As long as the brand isnít negatively affected by image issues JetBlue management isnít in a rush to get a CBA that will cost them more money. So far the JetBlue pilot group seems to be fairly docile. Koolaid filled rumors of a contract being just around the corner has kept retention high amongst the pilot group, theyíve targeting recruitment for new hires who arenít likely to leave based on background and they arenít suffering from negative press. They can keep the CBA ball rolling slowly.



So, thatís a no, you havenít spoken with the MEC or negotiating team. Got it.

When they feel like things are stalled, I will feel like things are stalled. The opinion of people who arenít connected to the process, and who are making stuff up mean absolutely nothing.

Southerner
11-27-2017, 01:30 PM
Thanks Hookah, the "contracts almost done" koolaid is VERY strong around here. It's allowed the sheep to be put out to pasture quite easily and consequently I think we will be lucky to have something by 2019.



I feel that way because of our ALPA leadership, not because of anything the company has said. I trust them more than I trust made up opinions from miserable people on the interwebz.

Bluedriver
11-27-2017, 01:36 PM
I feel that way because of our ALPA leadership, not because of anything the company has said. I trust them more than I trust made up opinions from miserable people on the interwebz.

Sorry Southerner, wrong again. I spoke with the MEC chair recently and he was NOT encouraged by recent progress. Have you noticed the new billboards???????

I know you hope salesman can't help yourselves but W O W.

hyperboy
11-27-2017, 03:10 PM
Sorry Southerner, wrong again. I spoke with the MEC chair recently and he was NOT encouraged by recent progress. Have you noticed the new billboards???????

I know you hope salesman can't help yourselves but W O W.

These boards will not get you a contract nor will your speculation...

Southerner
11-27-2017, 03:29 PM
Sorry Southerner, wrong again. I spoke with the MEC chair recently and he was NOT encouraged by recent progress. Have you noticed the new billboards???????



I know you hope salesman can't help yourselves but W O W.



Itís all show-business buddy. Donít you know that?

foxjet
11-27-2017, 05:53 PM
Rather than speculate on the current status, billboards and/or newspaper ads....why not pick up the phone and ask your local reps, negotiators or informed P2P reps? B6Alpa is a transparent organization, I'd assume the only reason you wouldn't is you're a non-member.

PasserOGas
11-27-2017, 07:26 PM
These boards will not get you a contract nor will your speculation...

Nor will you and southerner spreading management propaganda.

Southerner
11-28-2017, 03:44 AM
Nor will you and southerner spreading management propaganda.



Iím sharing my opinion, the same as you. You have no special lease on the truth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jetliner1526
11-28-2017, 05:10 AM
When I drove past I was thinking umm okay... never saw a billboard for a pilot contract dispute before.

You haven't been paying attention the past few years. SWAPA used signage during negotiations.

hyperboy
11-28-2017, 06:09 AM
Nor will you and southerner spreading management propaganda.

You mean ALPA info?

BunkerF16
11-28-2017, 06:23 AM
Sorry Southerner, wrong again. I spoke with the MEC chair recently and he was NOT encouraged by recent progress. Have you noticed the new billboards???????

I know you hope salesman can't help yourselves but W O W.

Curious as to when you talked with him. Was it after or before the most recent mediation session. My guess is it was before because I think he might have a slightly different perspective if you talk with him now.

Not that we're getting a contract tomorrow kind of perspective, but I think the last session had a different tone to it, and I think they believe media campaign is having an affect.

rvr1800
11-28-2017, 06:26 AM
You mean ALPA info?

ALPA has offered no timeline on the TA nor have they even speculated. This absolutely could still take years or it could get done by end of January. Nobody knows.

Bluedriver
11-28-2017, 07:54 AM
These boards will not get you a contract nor will your speculation...

Never said they would Supergirl. But why would our union leadership spend the money and turn up the rhetoric if they were "happy" with the progress at the negotiating table?

BlueJetDork
11-28-2017, 07:55 AM
Management is management and has always reacted and treated us the same as every other person or group to hold the office.

ALPA's optimism or pessimism should not ebb or wain.

It should be a constant:

"We worked for various management teams for nearly 2 decades and they have never worked with us to provide fair conditions of service. In fact they told us we have to make a sacrifice to work here. Until we have an AIP, get your financial house in order".

full of luv
11-28-2017, 07:55 AM
ALPA has offered no timeline on the TA nor have they even speculated. This absolutely could still take years or it could get done by end of January. Nobody knows.

What is the holdup? I thought you did mediation, and then when an impass was declared, you were permitted to go to self-help after a cooling off period.

It seems intolerable that mgmt can drag their heels through an expanding economy waiting for some downturn to justify substandard pay going forward.

Bluedriver
11-28-2017, 07:57 AM
Curious as to when you talked with him. Was it after or before the most recent mediation session. My guess is it was before because I think he might have a slightly different perspective if you talk with him now.

Not that we're getting a contract tomorrow kind of perspective, but I think the last session had a different tone to it, and I think they believe media campaign is having an affect.

AFTER the latest mediated session. Said management moved our direction, but still FAR from where they need to be.

PasserOGas
11-28-2017, 02:27 PM
You mean ALPA info?

When did ALPA say it #keepsgettingbetter at jetblue?

rvr1800
11-28-2017, 05:49 PM
What is the holdup? I thought you did mediation, and then when an impass was declared, you were permitted to go to self-help after a cooling off period.

It seems intolerable that mgmt can drag their heels through an expanding economy waiting for some downturn to justify substandard pay going forward.

Yes you understand the process correctly. Not sure if you were being sarcastic or not but we began mediation a few months ago and an impasse has not been declared. I completely agree with your second point. A broken system.

hilltopflyer
11-28-2017, 07:59 PM
Yes you understand the process correctly. Not sure if you were being sarcastic or not but we began mediation a few months ago and an impasse has not been declared. I completely agree with your second point. A broken system.

Even with an impasse we will never be allowed to actually strike. Fly too much in the northeast.

MovinUp
12-01-2017, 01:29 AM
When I drove past I was thinking umm okay... never saw a billboard for a pilot contract dispute before.

You clearly haven't been part of a union 121 operation before...or long enough...or during negotiations because this isn't a new tactic.

727_Driver
12-07-2017, 06:16 PM
I like Spirit's new RED lanyards...

AKcharger
12-20-2017, 06:21 AM
I like Spirit's new RED lanyards...

And they have cute little snow man ads too!

rvr1800
12-20-2017, 10:59 AM
I like Spirit's new RED lanyards...

Thereís an MOU between the company and ALPA that prevents us from having a colored lanyard like that.

GuppyPuppy
12-21-2017, 05:32 AM
Love the new mobile billboard! Pictures in front of headquarters and JFK T5.....priceless.

Gup

hilltopflyer
12-21-2017, 07:24 AM
I was telling this to a p2p guy the other day. I'm glad they did this! Just pay one to do circle around t5

CaptCoolHand
12-21-2017, 08:15 AM
Love the new mobile billboard! Pictures in front of headquarters and JFK T5.....priceless.

Gup

This is awesome!:D

citxls
12-21-2017, 02:35 PM
I would totally drive that van around. Would be entertaining. We actually had a passenger come up front yesterday and ask us about the union situation and they were in no way involved in aviation.

Word is getting out.

Ted Striker
12-21-2017, 04:06 PM
+1 ... had an in-law ask about the contract situation at Jetblue about a week ago.

PasserOGas
12-21-2017, 07:04 PM
I wonder how much an advertising firm would cost. You can hire them and specify pretty much any demographic (people with upcoming travel for instance), and they will put your ad where it will get the most viewing.

rvr1800
12-22-2017, 02:43 AM
I wonder how much an advertising firm would cost. You can hire them and specify pretty much any demographic (people with upcoming travel for instance), and they will put your ad where it will get the most viewing.

Iím guessing theyíre already doing that.

GuppyPuppy
12-22-2017, 05:19 AM
I wonder how much an advertising firm would cost. You can hire them and specify pretty much any demographic (people with upcoming travel for instance), and they will put your ad where it will get the most viewing.

Maybe we could revive the "Thank you for not flying JB" campaign!!!

:rolleyes:

Gup