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marshal
12-02-2017, 04:46 AM
I have questions about the CPP program at CommutAir.

How long does it take to get accepted into the program?
How many pilots move on to United a month on average?
Once you meet the hour requirements, how soon doe you get move up to United?

Also, if I have previous 121 time, realistically, how quick could an upgrade happen?


poopplop
12-02-2017, 06:03 AM
I have questions about the CPP program at CommutAir.

How long does it take to get accepted into the program?
Between 4-24 months. You get two tries and the pass rate is 25%.
How many pilots move on to United a month on average?
About 0.8 pilots each month.
Once you meet the hour requirements, how soon doe you get move up to United? At the current rate it would take 7 or 8 years, assuming you are one of the 25% and it is not cancelled due to poor staffing.

Also, if I have previous 121 time, realistically, how quick could an upgrade happen? 18-24 months. Answered above. I don't think you should choose an airline solely for the United CPP. Find the place with the best pay and contract.

turboprop87
12-02-2017, 07:31 AM
Answered above. I don't think you should choose an airline solely for the United CPP. Find the place with the best pay and contract.How did you arrive at .8/month?

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jacburn
12-02-2017, 09:33 AM
I have questions about the CPP program at CommutAir.

How long does it take to get accepted into the program?
How many pilots move on to United a month on average?
Once you meet the hour requirements, how soon doe you get move up to United?

Also, if I have previous 121 time, realistically, how quick could an upgrade happen?

Different answers for the same questions.

You will get to take the Hogan test and if passed, you will do an interview at UA. If you don't pass either, then you wait a year and start over. You only get to try twice. If you fail either, you are out of the program after your second attempt.

The number moving to UA deals specifically with the UA new hire classes. We get to fill 10% of the new hire classes with our pilots that have completed the interview process and have at least 1000 hours of PIC time at CommutAir. Since UA has had no new hire classes lately until this month, we have not sent anyone in a long time.

As soon as you get the hours (1000 PIC at C5) you will be able to move over to UA fairly quick due to the low number in the CPP pool. The trick right now is getting the 1000 PIC time.

Upgrade time at C5 is currently over one year and climbing on the ERJ. Management seems to think that time will decline again, but that will only happen if they can find people to come in the door to fill the bottom of the list with new incentives or better quality of life in the contract.

aviatorpr
12-02-2017, 10:54 AM
You can get accepted into the program quickly. Before you start Indoc they will let you take the Hogan, if you pass, you will wait until completion of new hire training and IOE(2-3 months). Then you can schedule your interview in Denver, which could be scheduled the following month. You will hear back the next week after the interview if you passed that step. From there itís anyones guess how quickly you can get in the left and get your 1000. The CPP is slightly better at C5 over XJT and Whisky bc they require 2000 PIC before eligible to get into the pool to go. Also we have a much smaller pilot group so you wonít wait nearly as long to go over once qualified.

I second what JacBurn said regarding upgrade times. Once this Dash training transition is complete in late Feb to early March, we will have the ability to train a lot of new hires again. But we have to be able to get the applicants here to staff the planes they have waiting to be delivered to get the upgrades going again at a faster pace.

poopplop
12-02-2017, 11:41 AM
How did you arrive at .8/month?Take the total number of people sent to United and divide it by the total number of months the program has been running. The number you arrive at will be very small. Definitely smaller than the 15-25 people the wholly owned carriers are sending to American and Delta each month.

turboprop87
12-02-2017, 12:46 PM
Take the total number of people sent to United and divide it by the total number of months the program has been running. The number you arrive at will be very small. Definitely smaller than the 15-25 people the wholly owned carriers are sending to American and Delta each month.Qualifying that value with lack of UA new hire classes would be appropriate.

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poopplop
12-02-2017, 01:17 PM
Qualifying that value with lack of UA new hire classes would be appropriate. I'm not here to sugarcoat the numbers. He asked what the average was so I gave it to him. If you want to blow sunshine and rainbows up his @ss then go ahead.

turboprop87
12-02-2017, 02:55 PM
I'm not here to sugarcoat the numbers. He asked what the average was so I gave it to him. If you want to blow sunshine and rainbows up his @ss then go ahead.Huh.

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poopplop
12-02-2017, 03:16 PM
Huh.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using TapatalkWhat.

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turboprop87
12-02-2017, 03:31 PM
What.

Sent from my Dell 15R N5010 using Internet ExplorerOhhhhhkay

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poopplop
12-02-2017, 04:27 PM
Ohhhhhkay

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John Carr
12-02-2017, 07:13 PM
The CPP is slightly better at C5 over XJT and Whisky bc they require 2000 PIC before eligible to get into the pool to go.

I believe it's 3000 at XJT OR 2000 PIC at XJT.

Which means that the majority of the FO's at XJT are eligible, as a WAG about 1000 of the 1300-ish pilots RIGHT NOW probably have it. With UAL's low hiring numbers for 2017 more and more of those that likely don't have the 3000 at XJT will before their number even comes up.

With some that don't have XJT 2000 PIC going end of Summer/Fall 2018 if the hiring projection sticks.

aviatorpr
12-02-2017, 08:04 PM
I believe it's 3000 at XJT OR 2000 PIC at XJT.

Which means that the majority of the FO's at XJT are eligible, as a WAG about 1000 of the 1300-ish pilots RIGHT NOW probably have it. With UAL's low hiring numbers for 2017 more and more of those that likely don't have the 3000 at XJT will before their number even comes up.

With some that don't have XJT 2000 PIC going end of Summer/Fall 2018 if the hiring projection sticks.

Thanks for the info...this guy is looking to start at a CPP carrier so your post doesnít really help him. Sure, you can go to any of the CPP carriers and get your 3000 company time, or come to C5 which is still growing, upgrade and get your 1000 probably before you hit the 3000.

John Carr
12-02-2017, 08:10 PM
Thanks for the info...this guy is looking to start at a CPP carrier so your post doesn’t really help him.

Ummmmm...allllll righty then :rolleyes:

I was just adding and additional FACT that it's not just the PIC that's required if going the XJT route :cool:

Nothing is ever certain, and jacburn outlined the variable factor best;

The trick right now is getting the 1000 PIC time. Upgrade time at C5 is currently over one year and climbing on the ERJ. Management seems to think that time will decline again, but that will only happen if they can find people to come in the door to fill the bottom of the list with new incentives or better quality of life in the contract.

jacburn
12-02-2017, 08:39 PM
Ummmmm...allllll righty then :rolleyes:

I was just adding and additional FACT that it's not just the PIC that's required if going the XJT route :cool:

Nothing is ever certain, and jacburn outlined the variable factor best;

We have the same thing for non PIC time at C5 as the 3000 hours.

I was hired at XJT in 2007 and I will still be at UA through the CPP faster at C5 than if I would have stayed at XJT.

If you guys at XJT let all the ASA guys into the CPP as expected, the bottom of the CPP list will never see a position at UA.

If you really want to compare the two airlines, C5 will send over a greater percentage of its pilots each year.

John Carr
12-02-2017, 10:01 PM
I was hired at XJT in 2007 and I will still be at UA through the CPP faster at C5 than if I would have stayed at XJT.

Glad it worked out for you since you were so miserable at XJT and borderline a pain in the rectum to fly with.

If you guys at XJT.....

Not my problem. But it is for my friends that are waiting on it pan out.

If you really want to compare the two airlines, C5 will send over a greater percentage of its pilots each year.

Awesome for C5.

marshal
12-03-2017, 08:39 AM
Thank you for all of the helpful information. A few more questions if you guys donít mind.

I know everyoneís situation is different, but about how much of the sign on bonus do you actually get after taxes?

What is the availability for extra time and is there a possibility for premium pay?

How much is the monthly payment for family insurance?

How does IAD and EWR compare in seniority?

Thanks again in advance.

aviatorpr
12-03-2017, 09:11 AM
Thank you for all of the helpful information. A few more questions if you guys donít mind.

I know everyoneís situation is different, but about how much of the sign on bonus do you actually get after taxes? They cut you a check the week before Indoc with whatever you qualified for, no taxes taken out, on you to pay them the following tax year

What is the availability for extra time and is there a possibility for premium pay? There is both open time and once a week the company posts what days theyíre offering 150, 200, or 300% for pick ups

How much is the monthly payment for family insurance? Medical, dental, vision?

How does IAD and EWR compare in seniority? EWR is junior for both seats

Thanks again in advance.

See above answers in bold

marshal
12-03-2017, 11:46 AM
See above answers in bold

Thanks. Yes to all three type of insurance.

texaspropguy
12-05-2017, 02:45 PM
We have the same thing for non PIC time at C5 as the 3000 hours.

I was hired at XJT in 2007 and I will still be at UA through the CPP faster at C5 than if I would have stayed at XJT.

If you guys at XJT let all the ASA guys into the CPP as expected, the bottom of the CPP list will never see a position at UA.

If you really want to compare the two airlines, C5 will send over a greater percentage of its pilots each year.


I'm not sure what you are saying is true. When do you anticipate going to class at C5? I'm not too senior to where you would have been at XJT and I bet a) you would have upgraded with the current awards and b) you probably would be going to class end of 2018 or early 2019 at UA (depending on what comes of the CRJ guys in relation to CPP).

John Carr
12-05-2017, 03:52 PM
(depending on what comes of the CRJ guys in relation to CPP).

I believe that's being finalized and wont be an issue for ERJ guys.

jacburn
12-06-2017, 06:31 AM
I'm not sure what you are saying is true. When do you anticipate going to class at C5? I'm not too senior to where you would have been at XJT and I bet a) you would have upgraded with the current awards and b) you probably would be going to class end of 2018 or early 2019 at UA (depending on what comes of the CRJ guys in relation to CPP).

I am already at C5.

What is the most Jr CA on the XJT list? When are upgrade classes scheduled at XJT?

PontiusPilot
12-06-2017, 06:35 AM
I am already at C5.

What is the most Jr CA on the XJT list? When are upgrade classes scheduled at XJT?

Most junior captain is September 2011. Upgrade classes have been taking place since November and will continue through May of next year.

flynd94
12-06-2017, 07:45 AM
I am already at C5.

What is the most Jr CA on the XJT list? When are upgrade classes scheduled at XJT?


8/07 hire and I hold ORD CA. I sit 150 in the CPP pool. I need UAL to hire at 600 to head over in 2018

PhantomHawk
12-06-2017, 08:33 AM
8/07 hire and I hold ORD CA. I sit 150 in the CPP pool. I need UAL to hire at 600 to head over in 2018

You should get a more recent update with IAH CP. Iím 7 months senior to you and Iím 150 in the CPP....and thatís before the 2nd round guys jump in line.

MaxQ
12-07-2017, 06:19 AM
C5 sent/is sending 6 this month to UAL. Probably similar percentage to the bigger carriers in the program.

Blue skies to all....from C5 and from XJet .

If C5 could hire enough FOs for the hoped for 2 aircraft/month, everyone on property that is eligible/wants to would probably be Captain on the ERJ by years end.
New top management in mx and trng seems to have had a positive effect on last winters issues.

HercDiver
12-07-2017, 08:02 AM
Just to counter some misinformation and give some positive notes about the CPP at C5:

The pass rate for the CPP (Hogan and interview combined) is just over 50%. (Not 25%)

In Jan C5 will start filling 10% of the UAL new hire classes (not to exceed 10% of the C5 seniority list). When considering this, the current numbers and rate of flow do not provide an accurate depiction, only a minimum baseline. The numbers and rates moving forward will increase.

In the 0.8 per month calculation, I wonder if the months UAL didn't run new hire classes were included? (That is 6 months)

John Carr
12-07-2017, 11:02 AM
Just to counter some misinformation and give some positive notes about the CPP at C5:

The pass rate for the CPP (Hogan and interview combined) is just over 50%. (Not 25%)

The numbers/stats ALWAYS get muddled.

So, of ALL the people that take the HPI, how many make it through? Of those, how many get past the interview?

That's usually where the "25%" comes from. As in, 25% of the entire attempt make it.

IOW, 100 take the HPI, 50 pass. Of those 50, 25 pass the interview, 25% overall success rate.

Just curious, is your data based on numbers shared between UAL and C5?

Summer 2016 for XJT was brutal. About 50% passed the HPI. Of those 50%, only 20-30% got through the interview.

Those numbers CAN BE VERIFIED. It's my understanding it's gone up now.

Saucy Dingo
12-07-2017, 02:43 PM
The pass rate for the CPP (Hogan and interview combined) is just over 50%. (Not 25%)

In the 0.8 per month calculation, I wonder if the months UAL didn't run new hire classes were included? (That is 6 months)You're wrong, it's currently 25% pass rate. That has been pretty much standard across both CPP airlines (C5 and XJT).

Yes the 0.8 calculation includes any months that UAL did not hire. The OP asked for the average, so why would that time not be included? That is time you are getting bent over at C5 instead of making six figures at the mainline. You have to consider historical delays into the calculation to make a reasonable expectation of "flow" date.

CommutAir had to wait 7 months to send 6 people. Those types of delays have to be accounted for. BTW that's 0.85 pilots per month average if you only count those 7 months, which is consistent with the average over the last 2 years for those that thought I was exaggerating.

When United hires more consistently again, the average should slowly increase as long as the CPP is honored. But the CPP is not in any contract and they have already said they will not release people to United if they cannot staff the airplanes. Staffing is the key, but currently other airlines are paying more money to fly the same bases.

turboprop87
12-07-2017, 03:16 PM
When United hires more consistently again, the average should slowly increase as long as the CPP is honored. But the CPP is not in any contract and they have already said they will not release people to United if they cannot staff the airplanes.

I was assured they would not hold anyone back from the CPP.

Grain of salt and all that.

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aviatorpr
12-07-2017, 04:03 PM
I was assured they would not hold anyone back from the CPP.

Grain of salt and all that.

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I was told Iíd be a Captain on the Dash until they left summer/fall 2018....right seat jet here I come

turboprop87
12-07-2017, 04:38 PM
I was told Iíd be a Captain on the Dash until they left summer/fall 2018....right seat jet here I come
The early Dash pull down really shafted you guys. I truly wish it hadn't worked out like that.

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FmrPropCapt
12-07-2017, 08:10 PM
The early Dash pull down really shafted you guys. I truly wish it hadn't worked out like that.

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I've heard more bad and disheartening information from my friends there about the management there then pretty much anywhere else. From the (former Mesa guy now cp) CP up. If what I hear is true, you cannot run an airline ten steps behind where you need to be much less grow one. Also the threats and contract violation rumors are a little scary. Gotta work together and keep promises. I doubt Scott will allow that group to stay intact much longer.

HercDiver
12-08-2017, 04:50 AM
The numbers/stats ALWAYS get muddled.

So, of ALL the people that take the HPI, how many make it through? Of those, how many get past the interview?

That's usually where the "25%" comes from. As in, 25% of the entire attempt make it.

IOW, 100 take the HPI, 50 pass. Of those 50, 25 pass the interview, 25% overall success rate.

Just curious, is your data based on numbers shared between UAL and C5?

Summer 2016 for XJT was brutal. About 50% passed the HPI. Of those 50%, only 20-30% got through the interview.

Those numbers CAN BE VERIFIED. It's my understanding it's gone up now.

If you read my post you will see "(Hogan and interview combined)". The pass rate for getting into the CPP for C5 is over 50%. This is driven by an interview success rate that is much higher than the Hogan success rate.

John Carr
12-08-2017, 08:50 AM
If you read my post you will see "(Hogan and interview combined)". The pass rate for getting into the CPP for C5 is over 50%. This is driven by an interview success rate that is much higher than the Hogan success rate.

You're not being as clear as you think you are.

Using a nice round number of 100 HPI's sent out, how many have been accepted and are in the CPP pool?

Saucy Dingo
12-08-2017, 01:49 PM
If you read my post you will see "(Hogan and interview combined)". The pass rate for getting into the CPP for C5 is over 50%. This is driven by an interview success rate that is much higher than the Hogan success rate.Then you are being dishonest by muddying up the numbers. Just like these airlines that advertise per-diem and hotels as "compensation".

It's simple. 25% of people who try to get into the CPP succeed. 75% fail.

turboprop87
12-08-2017, 08:19 PM
Then you are being dishonest by muddying up the numbers. Just like these airlines that advertise per-diem and hotels as "compensation".

It's simple. 25% of people who try to get into the CPP succeed. 75% fail.Numerator and denominator, please.

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HercDiver
12-09-2017, 11:36 AM
Numerator and denominator, please.

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Haha yes! I would love to have these exact figures. I work closely with the CPP and know that the interview pass rate is similar to the pass rate for an "off the street" interview. The Hogan pass rate is about 50% +\- 10%. The interview pass rate is 70% +\- 10%. I will admit, I do not know the EXACT numbers, but I am positive of the range I just specified. Understand that the CPP isn't the great recruiting tool C5, XJT, AWAC, and UAL think it is. If the CPP overall acceptance rate was 70+% then it would be. Until then, it's just an added benefit that really helps some.

Saucy Dingo
12-09-2017, 12:21 PM
Haha yes! I would love to have these exact figures. I work closely with the CPP and know that the interview pass rate is similar to the pass rate for an "off the street" interview. The Hogan pass rate is about 50% +\- 10%. The interview pass rate is 70% +\- 10%. I will admit, I do not know the EXACT numbers, but I am positive of the range I just specified. Understand that the CPP isn't the great recruiting tool C5, XJT, AWAC, and UAL think it is. If the CPP overall acceptance rate was 70+% then it would be. Until then, it's just an added benefit that really helps some.According to your estimates the pass rate is roughly 35%, +/- 10%. That's a wide margin and doesn't exactly proving anyone right or wrong here.

The union was trying to keep track for a while by taking surveys, but I'm sure not everyone participated. I think only United knows the true numbers but from the Union findings, company BS and word-of-mouth, the acceptance rate is certainly less than 50% and still only sending < 1 pilot per month on average.

John Carr
12-09-2017, 03:17 PM
According to your estimates the pass rate is roughly 35%, +/- 10%. That's a wide margin and doesn't exactly proving anyone right or wrong here.

The union was trying to keep track for a while by taking surveys, but I'm sure not everyone participated. I think only United knows the true numbers but from the Union findings, company BS and word-of-mouth, the acceptance rate is certainly less than 50% and still only sending < 1 pilot per month on average.

Good luck. XJTís MEC has to fight like hell to get the numbers since UAL isnít transparent.

Apparantly, UALALPA was disappointed at how few are being accepted.

Hopefully that problem goes away after a certain problem retires.



APp