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View Full Version : New hire questions


ColtF15
12-02-2017, 11:04 AM
Hello,

Trying to put timelines together.

How long typically is it from date of hire to training? How long is training to IOE? How is basing determined? How senior is Medford?

Thanks in advance for your help.


ASpilot2be
12-02-2017, 11:52 AM
Hello,

Trying to put timelines together.

How long typically is it from date of hire to training? How long is training to IOE? How is basing determined? How senior is Medford?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Depends on the aircraft. I was hired in September, and probably wont finish IOE until January sometime. This is on the Q. But it sounds like they are trying to speed things up.

You will bid for your bases in training, but chances are you will get Medford right out of training. That is where all the newhires have going lately.

ColtF15
12-02-2017, 12:27 PM
Thanks for the help!


ASpilot2be
12-02-2017, 12:28 PM
Thanks for the help!

Welcome aboard! I am guessing you are in the Q. The training is top notch.

Flyinlynn
12-05-2017, 12:00 AM
Any idea how long is the wait for the ERJ? Which base is junior? How long is training? Can you ask for ERJ or company decision?

Thanks

ASpilot2be
12-05-2017, 12:35 AM
Any idea how long is the wait for the ERJ? Which base is junior? How long is training? Can you ask for ERJ or company decision?

Thanks

Not sure what classes are looking like for the ERJ. But we are resuming deliveries in March, and parking 15 Qs next year. So I would say your chances of getting it are pretty good. I think budgeting about three months for training is good. Right now SEA is the only base for the jet, with a PDX satellite base. Who knows that will happen next year. I wouldnt be surprised to see PDX become a jet base.

Flyinlynn
12-05-2017, 04:31 PM
SEA is great for me I live near by.

Do you know how much simulator time you get?

ASpilot2be
12-05-2017, 05:18 PM
SEA is great for me I live near by.

Do you know how much simulator time you get?

If it is like the Q, its 12 four hour sessions in total.

CurseURedBaron
12-05-2017, 10:49 PM
10 four hour sessions in the E175.

Flyinlynn
12-06-2017, 12:01 AM
10 four hour sessions in the E175.

Are the 10 four hour sessions split with a sim partner so each gets 20 hours flying the sim (PF) and 20 hours acting as PM for their sim partner?

Or do you get 40 hours hours as PF?

flyfast2u
12-06-2017, 06:51 AM
Are the 10 four hour sessions split with a sim partner so each gets 20 hours flying the sim (PF) and 20 hours acting as PM for their sim partner?

Or do you get 40 hours hours as PF?


Didn't you just get hired at Skywest into the CRJ ? and start CPT / Ground school with them recently?:confused:
.

pete2800
12-06-2017, 09:58 AM
Are the 10 four hour sessions split with a sim partner so each gets 20 hours flying the sim (PF) and 20 hours acting as PM for their sim partner?

This is correct.

Flyinlynn
12-06-2017, 06:37 PM
Didn't you just get hired at Skywest into the CRJ ? and start CPT / Ground school with them recently?:confused:
.

Yes I did but I washed out in the sims :-(

I made it through Indoc, systems and procedures validation.

Big jump from VFR CFI in a Cessna 152 to flows, callouts, tasks, FMS, glass panel, and a jet all at one time in 10 hours. (Five 4 hour sessions split with your partner so 10 hours of PF) they do allow up to 10 more hours but if you use all the extra training you will be fired and have a PRIA event on your record. So before you get to that point the option is to resign.

Trying to figure out what to do next

Fixnem2Flyinem
12-06-2017, 07:33 PM
Yes I did but I washed out in the sims :-(

I made it through Indoc, systems and procedures validation.

Big jump from VFR CFI in a Cessna 152 to flows, callouts, tasks, FMS, glass panel, and a jet all at one time in 10 hours. (Five 4 hour sessions split with your partner so 10 hours of PF) they do allow up to 10 more hours but if you use all the extra training you will be fired and have a PRIA event on your record. So before you get to that point the option is to resign.

Trying to figure out what to do next

I will say this as someone who has been through both SkyWest and Horizon training programs and passed both within the last year or so. Yes, I went from SkyWest to Horizon... I know, against the flow of traffic. However, that whole no commuter clause and no union thing really didn't pan out well for me as much as the SkyWest guys bark about having a great deal with no protection.

I went through the ERJ at SkyWest and it was a cake walk compared to the Q400 sim training at Horizon. I'm not sure of the difference in training difficulties between the ERJ and Q at Horizon, but due to the complex procedures (RNP, Cat 3, special airports) that the Q is capable of, their expectations are pretty high as far as keeping up with flows and procedures while flying what is a very high workload airplane.

With that being said, Since you now have a taste of the 121 firehose it may be easier for you the second time around. I wouldn't recommend the Q, people are failing out of the training on that plane at a pretty high frequency, but the ERJ will be better for you living in SEA anyway. The friends I've talked to that have been in the ERJ program said it was pretty easy, but they also had some previous 121 experience. If you felt overwhelmed maybe grabbing some 135 time will be the best option prior to trying for Horizon, but that is just my take. Please don't take that the wrong way, as you are the one that knows best what you are capable of. I flew 135 prior to 121, and it was a big help in my opinion. Best of luck and if you get on board and have more detailed questions, PM me and I'll get you in touch with some that have recently went through the training.

Fixnem2Flyinem
12-06-2017, 08:02 PM
Also, as much as people are talking about Horizon being a pile of burning dung, I have been happy here so far. The grass is never greener on the other side, and SkyWest agreeing to their great 1% pay raise will haunt them soon enough, as much as those kool aid drinkers on here say otherwise.... When majors start hiring 700 plus a year each, SkyWest will have a very hard time hiring to keep up with attrition alone on top of the growth that they are planning. Just look at how they are talking about a basically DEC job in ATL now, that's because everyone east is going with the better options.

I once worked for a 135 carrier that grew exponentially, just to die two years later because they couldn't keep the cockpits staffed. A cyclical industry this is, and hopefully the cycle will continue upwards in the coming years

word302
12-06-2017, 08:18 PM
Also, as much as people are talking about Horizon being a pile of burning dung, I have been happy here so far. The grass is never greener on the other side, and SkyWest agreeing to their great 1% pay raise will haunt them soon enough, as much as those kool aid drinkers on here say otherwise.... When majors start hiring 700 plus a year each, SkyWest will have a very hard time hiring to keep up with attrition alone on top of the growth that they are planning. Just look at how they are talking about a basically DEC job in ATL now, that's because everyone east is going with the better options.

I once worked for a 135 carrier that grew exponentially, just to die two years later because they couldn't keep the cockpits staffed. A cyclical industry this is, and hopefully the cycle will continue upwards in the coming years

Meh. Management is pretty smart. Donít underestimate their ability to do just enough to keep the fools flowing in.

Fixnem2Flyinem
12-06-2017, 08:28 PM
Meh. Management is pretty smart. Donít underestimate their ability to do just enough to keep the fools flowing in.

I didn't mean that with any disrespect to those that fly at SkyWest, I have many friends there and hope they don't get the turd tasting end of the stick. Management may be smart, but when they're already flipping over every rock to find new hires, offering visas for Australian pilots at a high rate and offering lateral move incentives instead of raising pay for those already on board, that shows you they don't have current employees best interests at heart. But what regional does at this point? :/

Flyinlynn
12-06-2017, 08:34 PM
I will say this as someone who has been through both SkyWest and Horizon training programs and passed both within the last year or so. Yes, I went from SkyWest to Horizon... I know, against the flow of traffic. However, that whole no commuter clause and no union thing really didn't pan out well for me as much as the SkyWest guys bark about having a great deal with no protection.

I went through the ERJ at SkyWest and it was a cake walk compared to the Q400 sim training at Horizon. I'm not sure of the difference in training difficulties between the ERJ and Q at Horizon, but due to the complex procedures (RNP, Cat 3, special airports) that the Q is capable of, their expectations are pretty high as far as keeping up with flows and procedures while flying what is a very high workload airplane.

With that being said, Since you now have a taste of the 121 firehose it may be easier for you the second time around. I wouldn't recommend the Q, people are failing out of the training on that plane at a pretty high frequency, but the ERJ will be better for you living in SEA anyway. The friends I've talked to that have been in the ERJ program said it was pretty easy, but they also had some previous 121 experience. If you felt overwhelmed maybe grabbing some 135 time will be the best option prior to trying for Horizon, but that is just my take. Please don't take that the wrong way, as you are the one that knows best what you are capable of. I flew 135 prior to 121, and it was a big help in my opinion. Best of luck and if you get on board and have more detailed questions, PM me and I'll get you in touch with some that have recently went through the training.

A couple of friends have suggest doing some cargo time like Ameriflight or Empire. I have also heard that had I gone ERJ I might have still been there but who knows.

So yeah thinking about Horizon but as you said not the Q400. I did just have this recent experience so I know better what to expect. Or cargo then Horizon. I figure I can overcome one wash out but if I wash out again I doubt I would get a third try.

Right now I am working on increasing my instrument proficiency in a C172 with G1000 and planning my next move.

Thanks

Fixnem2Flyinem
12-06-2017, 08:41 PM
A couple of friends have suggest doing some cargo time like Ameriflight or Empire. I have also heard that had I gone ERJ I might have still been there but who knows.

So yeah thinking about Horizon but as you said not the Q400. I did just have this recent experience so I know better what to expect. Or cargo then Horizon. I figure I can overcome one wash out but if I wash out again I doubt I would get a third try.

Right now I am working on increasing my instrument proficiency in a C172 with G1000 and planning my next move.

Thanks

IFR proficiency is key in 121 training. Knowing the procedures, the rules, and having a good scan will boost your chances of passing. I hope you get back on that horse soon and go for planes bigger than GA. Ameriflight is a hard program as well, for good reason. That is a job you can kill yourself quickly, because you go 99% of the time. The one issue I have heard with people only with GA CFI backgrounds, is their lack of flying in weather. Go 135 for a year and you will have the bad weather and IFR proficient box checked for sure!

word302
12-06-2017, 08:46 PM
I didn't mean that with any disrespect to those that fly at SkyWest, I have many friends there and hope they don't get the turd tasting end of the stick. Management may be smart, but when they're already flipping over every rock to find new hires, offering visas for Australian pilots at a high rate and offering lateral move incentives instead of raising pay for those already on board, that shows you they don't have current employees best interests at heart. But what regional does at this point? :/

No offense taken. Problem is weíre still getting close to 100/month. I donít know where theyíre all coming from but there arenít many Aussie accents in the Denver schoolhouse if any. We wonít see a penny until hiring slows.

Fixnem2Flyinem
12-06-2017, 08:50 PM
No offense taken. Problem is weíre still getting close to 100/month. I donít know where theyíre all coming from but there arenít many Aussie accents in the Denver schoolhouse if any. We wonít see a penny until hiring slows.

Well maybe all the Aussies are in SLC for that immediate ATL CRJ upgrade!! Kiddin. I will now shut up :)

Turbosina
12-06-2017, 08:58 PM
No offense taken. Problem is weíre still getting close to 100/month. I donít know where theyíre all coming from but there arenít many Aussie accents in the Denver schoolhouse if any. We wonít see a penny until hiring slows.

I don't know what it is, but half of the OO radio calls these days @ SFO seem to be from Aussies. Really. Ok perhaps not actually half, but quite a few.

Flyinlynn
12-06-2017, 10:38 PM
IFR proficiency is key in 121 training. Knowing the procedures, the rules, and having a good scan will boost your chances of passing. I hope you get back on that horse soon and go for planes bigger than GA. Ameriflight is a hard program as well, for good reason. That is a job you can kill yourself quickly, because you go 99% of the time. The one issue I have heard with people only with GA CFI backgrounds, is their lack of flying in weather. Go 135 for a year and you will have the bad weather and IFR proficient box checked for sure!

Yeah I have about 25 hours actual. Here in the PNW we are know as the ice maker in winter months makes going into the clouds a concern in a Cessna 172 but we get more clouds here than Arizona that is for sure.

Aerotrinamic
12-07-2017, 12:20 AM
at least Horizon won't ask you to resign or put a lot of pressure on you for needing extra training. If you need more training before maneuver validation, no biggy, you just get it. Then if you still need more training it'll go to the training review board and then you get more training. The TRB might go on the PRIA but I actually have no idea, maybe someone else knows better here?

AlohaNG
12-07-2017, 07:12 AM
It's ironic to read this Aussie chatter here and the SkyWest thread. QantasLink (the regional for Qantas) recently made a big recruiting push on the Island Air pilots in Hawaii. QL needs to hire at least 400 next year with classes starting next month. Huge perks and incentives. Paid move. First month housing free. All training, testing and Australian license conversion paid for. 6 weeks vacation right off the bat. Visa sponsorship for you and immediate family. Considerably cheaper health insurance... so it's odd that Aussies are willing to go to the States for a lot less.

pete2800
12-07-2017, 09:06 AM
It's ironic to read this Aussie chatter here and the SkyWest thread. QantasLink (the regional for Qantas) recently made a big recruiting push on the Island Air pilots in Hawaii. QL needs to hire at least 400 next year with classes starting next month. Huge perks and incentives. Paid move. First month housing free. All training, testing and Australian license conversion paid for. 6 weeks vacation right off the bat. Visa sponsorship for you and immediate family. Considerably cheaper health insurance... so it's odd that Aussies are willing to go to the States for a lot less.

The people here are probably the Aussies that washed out over there...

cactusflyer
12-07-2017, 09:21 AM
The TRB might go on the PRIA but I actually have no idea, maybe someone else knows better here?

A TRB here won't show up on PRIA, since it's not a training event as far as the FAA is concerned.

What does show up on a PRIA is a failed training event that causes a TRB to happen, but the review board itself is just an internal procedure that doesn't show up anywhere outside of internal QX records.

Flyinlynn
12-07-2017, 03:36 PM
Can you ask for ERJ or do they assign Aircraft?

I donít mind waiting

Flyinlynn
12-07-2017, 03:37 PM
at least Horizon won't ask you to resign or put a lot of pressure on you for needing extra training. If you need more training before maneuver validation, no biggy, you just get it. Then if you still need more training it'll go to the training review board and then you get more training. The TRB might go on the PRIA but I actually have no idea, maybe someone else knows better here?

Thanks good to know :)

Fixnem2Flyinem
12-08-2017, 10:08 AM
Can you ask for ERJ or do they assign Aircraft?

I donít mind waiting

I believe you can request the airplane of your choice. They will try to put you in the Q, especially if you don't have a preference but I know quite a few that were given the jet. That might also push your ground school date back a bit, I'm not sure what numbers are needed on the jet side as far as FO's go. We are meant to get 13 more jets in 2018 bringing the total up to 23.

SIUav8er
12-08-2017, 05:38 PM
Horizon: home of the Skywest washouts. Never thought id hear that one!

OregonAviator
12-08-2017, 09:26 PM
Horizon: home of the Skywest washouts. Never thought id hear that one!

If SkyWest is bringing Australians to the US to fly for them and cut corners on paying pilots then I’d think it’s safe to assume SkyWest is hiring anyone with a pulse or washout on record as well

Hang em High
12-08-2017, 11:29 PM
Exactly how long does it take for Horizon to respond to a person after they have submitted a application. I submitted a application a couple weeks ago and nothing but crickets. I do understand we had Thanksgiving, but so did all the other Regionals. I currently have several other Regionals breathing heavily down my neck, and yet I would prefer to go to Horizon. If anybody has any Intel on their Hiring timeline please let me know.

ASpilot2be
12-09-2017, 12:02 AM
Exactly how long does it take for Horizon to respond to a person after they have submitted a application. I submitted a application a couple weeks ago and nothing but crickets. I do understand we had Thanksgiving, but so did all the other Regionals. I currently have several other Regionals breathing heavily down my neck, and yet I would prefer to go to Horizon. If anybody has any Intel on their Hiring timeline please let me know.

There is a recruiters email on the APC page. I would email her. Things do get lost.

Flyinlynn
12-10-2017, 06:34 PM
Big jump from VFR CFI in a Cessna 152 to flows, callouts, tasks, FMS, glass panel, and a jet all at one time in 10 hours. (Five 4 hour sessions split with your partner so 10 hours of PF) they do allow up to 10 more hours

Just wanted to add they trained us on procedures using a training device similar to the flight deck but with touch screen panels. Less expensive to train in than the full motion sim. We had 4 shared, 4 hour sessions (so 8 hours) to learn our flows followed by the procedures validation. If you need any extra training prior to PV that comes out of the 10 hours of extra sim training.

Overall the normal time allowed was 8 in the Procedures trainer then the PV. Next 10 hours PF in the sim for maneuvers training and the MV. Finally, 4 hours sim for LOFT and the LOE.

I had the 8 hours in the procedures trainer with 3 extra hours. Then 8 hours and 4 extra hours in the sim before I resigned without taking the MV.

I donít have any hard feelings toward OO. I did not know going in about what airline training was like. All my training was part 61 flying Cessna 6 pack. I learned a lot just not fast enough. They did say I can reapply after 6 months.

If I am able to get a second chance at training with them, Horizon or someone else I will be better prepared with what I have learned from this experience. Hoping for helpful suggestions on how best to prepare for a future attempt.

Right now I am learning G1000 and sharpening my IFR skills. Thinking about flying cargo. I have heard that would be good training.

Btoflyer
12-10-2017, 06:57 PM
Exactly how long does it take for Horizon to respond to a person after they have submitted a application. I submitted a application a couple weeks ago and nothing but crickets. I do understand we had Thanksgiving, but so did all the other Regionals. I currently have several other Regionals breathing heavily down my neck, and yet I would prefer to go to Horizon. If anybody has any Intel on their Hiring timeline please let me know.

Deja Hubbard, the recruiter, has a phone number on the profile also. Call her and she'll get back to you. She's super nice. You might just have caught her while she was on a recruiting trip.

Mr Rumbold
12-11-2017, 11:46 AM
How does the guaranteed interview work that is mentioned on apc.com?
It says you have a guaranteed interview and they keep a permanent application window open at Alaska..
Do people actually get hired?? How long does it take before you get the opportunity?
Thx.

snackysmores
12-11-2017, 12:23 PM
How does the guaranteed interview work that is mentioned on apc.com?
It says you have a guaranteed interview and they keep a permanent application window open at Alaska..
Do people actually get hired?? How long does it take before you get the opportunity?
Thx.

Once you have about 2000 hours of Horizon time you can sign over your employment/attendance records to Alaska HR for their viewing pleasure. Then you can use your guaranteed interview which has varying degrees of success. If successful you will be placed into a hiring pool and it will be several months before you are called.

Still faster, easier, and more dignified to apply to Alaska as a non-Horizon pilot who won't be subjected to any of that treatment and get an immediate class date.

cactusflyer
12-11-2017, 09:05 PM
To expand on what Snackysmores said, we had people sitting in the pool at Alaska for 11 months in the recent past (although I think it's come down from that), since they realized pulling people from QX only made our lack of staffing worse.

Also, the records Alaska demands QX pilots hand over for the guaranteed interview very likely contain (or allows easy inference of) information that Alaska HR would be legally prohibited from asking applicants about otherwise (marital status, sexual orientation, kids, etc...), and all we have is a "pinky swear" they aren't using any of that stuff to illegally weed out certain groups of people.

TurnNBurn
12-11-2017, 10:48 PM
Curious what strings are attached to the new hire bonus at Horizon?

Mr Rumbold
12-12-2017, 05:44 AM
how long are new-hires on reserve?
Coming in w/ previous 121 time, is upgrade pretty quick? And then eternity on reserve?

flyblo
12-12-2017, 12:16 PM
Good read on the thread - I've got SkyWest and Horizon interviews coming up shortly and am trying to make a well educated decisions...assuming I get offers.

I'm hoping to end up at Alaska. Since the "guaranteed interview" process seems to be pretty lengthy, does anyone know if horizon pilots are able to apply as an outside hire would?

snackysmores
12-12-2017, 12:53 PM
how long are new-hires on reserve?
Coming in w/ previous 121 time, is upgrade pretty quick? And then eternity on reserve?

If you have previous 121 time and upgrade right after passing FO IOE, you will be reserve in Medford for the next couple of years at least if the base doesn't close first. Next stop is SEA.

snackysmores
12-12-2017, 12:54 PM
Good read on the thread - I've got SkyWest and Horizon interviews coming up shortly and am trying to make a well educated decisions...assuming I get offers.

I'm hoping to end up at Alaska. Since the "guaranteed interview" process seems to be pretty lengthy, does anyone know if horizon pilots are able to apply as an outside hire would?

You can but good luck. They will assume you're trying to hide something.

flyblo
12-12-2017, 06:07 PM
You can but good luck. They will assume you're trying to hide something.

Good to know, thanks for the heads up. I like the idea of flying for horizon, but sounds like it may be best to consider other options and join up with alaska at a later date.

cactusflyer
12-12-2017, 10:23 PM
how long are new-hires on reserve?
Coming in w/ previous 121 time, is upgrade pretty quick? And then eternity on reserve?

How long you spend on reserve as an FO depends on where you're based, and how the staffing and hiring is going at any given moment. For some of the junior bases, you could probably get off reserve in a few months, whereas the more senior bases (SEA or PDX) would be closer to a year before you could hold a line.


I know of someone with previous 121 time who got offered an upgrade after something like two months at QX, so you'd get the upgrade pretty fast, but would then be spending something like two years on reserve for the Q400.

Hang em High
12-13-2017, 12:11 AM
Deja Hubbard, the recruiter, has a phone number on the profile also. Call her and she'll get back to you. She's super nice. You might just have caught her while she was on a recruiting trip.

Thanks when I get back to the States I will give her a shout.

WD08
12-18-2017, 05:33 AM
Hey everyone. I'm looking for any news or info on the soon to be released rotor transition program for Horizon. Deja said they're putting the final touches on it, but she didn't have specifics on requirements and the like. Wondering if anyone has any other details or thoughts on the program.

Taco280AI
12-19-2017, 03:34 AM
I was told back in July they were going to announce their RTP details in the coming weeks, so don't hold your breath

WhiteH2O
12-19-2017, 04:47 AM
Few questions from a jet soon-to-be newhire: Could anyone tell me what cities the jet is flying to now? I've found an old list, but I'm sure things have changed since that was posted. Anyone willing to post an example of a standard trip?

I've also heard that there are more jet pilots than needed with the delayed (or sent to Skywest) planes, so what should I expect for the first few months on the line? Lots of sitting reserve without flying? Should I expect to sit reserve until new planes start flowing in?

Btoflyer
12-20-2017, 05:05 PM
Few questions from a jet soon-to-be newhire: Could anyone tell me what cities the jet is flying to now? I've found an old list, but I'm sure things have changed since that was posted. Anyone willing to post an example of a standard trip?

I've also heard that there are more jet pilots than needed with the delayed (or sent to Skywest) planes, so what should I expect for the first few months on the line? Lots of sitting reserve without flying? Should I expect to sit reserve until new planes start flowing in?

I'm a newbie at Horizon on the Embraer. Things are changing everyday, so getting the "latest" info is a sketchy proposition. I've gotten some lines for my OE which include ABQ, SAN, SNA, SFO, PDX, GEG and YYC. There are also flights to Ariozona, Montana, Minnesota and Kansas. Those are all fluid as Horizon's jets are new and being utilized by the air group to figure out new destinations.

My first trip is a 4-day (followed by a 2-day) with a late afternoon trip to ABQ. Next day is ABQ-SAN, SAN-SFO, SFO-ABQ. Repeat next day. Last day is a flight to PDX and then a deadhead home to SEA. This is a high time trip, but it's still 1-3 legs per day. WAY better than my previous job as a Pt 135 pilot.

I'm a NW native, so working for QX is a natural fit. The training pilots are very cool and laid back. There are some dwell times between ground and the procedures trainer, as well as from the sim onto the line. That will be shrinking significantly because the training department is really (in my opinion) getting squared away.

I am new, yes, but my impression is that this company is really well set up. I expect it will climb out of its problems and do very well.

WD08
12-20-2017, 08:19 PM
Did you have a problem getting the 175 out of training?

trc8301
12-20-2017, 11:47 PM
Did you have a problem getting the 175 out of training?

Seems like you'd want the 175 going IN to training :-)

Talk to a recruiter, it's fluctuating. They offered me a spot about 2 weeks after my interview on the 175. They asked in the interview which I'd prefer and if I'd be willing to take either. I said I'd prefer the jet, but I'd take both.

WD08
12-21-2017, 04:45 AM
Good point! Guess you'd want to get trained on the bird you're going to fly. :) I'd be game to fly either, but I'd really like to be based in SEA. Thanks

flyblo
12-21-2017, 05:01 AM
Hey folks - what's the latest on how long new hires are sitting reserve in SEA on the jet? I'm aware this might be fluctuating a good deal as QX gets more, but just looking for an estimate.

I'm lucky enough to have received offers from both OO and QX, and while I really liked the feel and presentation of the QX hiring process more, sitting reserve for a year would kinda suck if it could be avoided.

Thanks for the input!

WhiteH2O
12-21-2017, 09:17 AM
I'm a newbie at Horizon on the Embraer. Things are changing everyday, so getting the "latest" info is a sketchy proposition. I've gotten some lines for my OE which include ABQ, SAN, SNA, SFO, PDX, GEG and YYC. There are also flights to Ariozona, Montana, Minnesota and Kansas. Those are all fluid as Horizon's jets are new and being utilized by the air group to figure out new destinations.

My first trip is a 4-day (followed by a 2-day) with a late afternoon trip to ABQ. Next day is ABQ-SAN, SAN-SFO, SFO-ABQ. Repeat next day. Last day is a flight to PDX and then a deadhead home to SEA. This is a high time trip, but it's still 1-3 legs per day. WAY better than my previous job as a Pt 135 pilot.

I'm a NW native, so working for QX is a natural fit. The training pilots are very cool and laid back. There are some dwell times between ground and the procedures trainer, as well as from the sim onto the line. That will be shrinking significantly because the training department is really (in my opinion) getting squared away.

I am new, yes, but my impression is that this company is really well set up. I expect it will climb out of its problems and do very well.


Thanks for the info. Sounds much better than when I was flying the Q 9 years ago. I did some searching on AirNav to see what airports the 175s are flying in and out of and get a similar list to what you posted. I got SEA, MSP, PDX, ABQ, TUS, SJC, SFO, MCI, SNA, SAN, YYC, GEG, and ICT. I'm sure there are more, too. I've been to two initial training courses, one being Horizon 10 years ago. Horizon was, hands down, way better than the other one. I'm sure it is only getting better as time goes by.

AlohaNG
12-21-2017, 05:20 PM
Hey folks - what's the latest on how long new hires are sitting reserve in SEA on the jet? I'm aware this might be fluctuating a good deal as QX gets more, but just looking for an estimate.

I'm lucky enough to have received offers from both OO and QX, and while I really liked the feel and presentation of the QX hiring process more, sitting reserve for a year would kinda suck if it could be avoided.

Thanks for the input!

I am scheduled for the January 175 class. The recruiters were upfront with me and said expect at least a year straight reserve. 13 jets are scheduled for delivery, but 15 Qs are being retired. So all of the transitioining Q FOs would keep you at the bottom. Plus word is the company is already 30 pilots heavy for the jet, sitting around barely flying. If I bid Q captain, that may be a different story.
OO on the other hand is receiving 42 airplanes in 2018 (and not parking any airplanes)...

snackysmores
12-22-2017, 08:51 AM
Hey folks - what's the latest on how long new hires are sitting reserve in SEA on the jet? I'm aware this might be fluctuating a good deal as QX gets more, but just looking for an estimate.

I'm lucky enough to have received offers from both OO and QX, and while I really liked the feel and presentation of the QX hiring process more, sitting reserve for a year would kinda suck if it could be avoided.

Thanks for the input!

I would think longer term. At both companies you're going to be eligible to upgrade at 1000 hours 121. Would you rather upgrade in Seattle or Detroit?

WhiteH2O
12-22-2017, 12:38 PM
I am scheduled for the January 175 class.

3rd or 29th?

trc8301
12-22-2017, 01:39 PM
So all of the transitioining Q FOs would keep you at the bottom.

Between retention and upgrade time, I don't see why many would switch. It would just be time away from total time building, slowing down upgrade (money) to an aircraft with only one base. This is based on opinion though, who knows.

hawgwild
12-22-2017, 02:03 PM
Between retention and upgrade time, I don't see why many would switch. It would just be time away from total time building, slowing down upgrade (money) to an aircraft with only one base. This is based on opinion though, who knows.

This, there are VERY few FOs transitioning from the Q to the jet as an FO. By the time their seat lock is done, they have or will be upgrading, most likely to the Q.

Btoflyer
12-22-2017, 04:02 PM
This, there are VERY few FOs transitioning from the Q to the jet as an FO. By the time their seat lock is done, they have or will be upgrading, most likely to the Q.

That's what I saw when I was at the schoolhouse as well. Most Q400 FO's with any seniority want to stay in their base (i.e. not SEA), so the only reason to switch to the jet is for CA upgrade.

As for reserve, QX has several training bubbles built into 2018 because of the new jets coming. There's a month long dwell time for OE at the moment, so reserve happens right out of the sim (mostly 12 hr callout). That also appears to be changing with the addition of new training pilots. As it was explained to me, that means we're fat with FO's in the short term (maybe some reserve but with long callout). However, I expect to see a line almost immediately after OE.

This is a smaller, nimbler company than OO, which means that there is less inertia. If they want to make drastic (and hopefully progressive) changes, then it can happen quickly. So much is fluctuating here, so honestly the recruiters are right to give you the worst case scenario. QX seems to be back on track (again, according to the old hands here). On a personal level, I really like the laid back atmosphere at the schoolhouse and sim. The company has been really good to me thus far as well.

snackysmores
12-22-2017, 05:07 PM
That's what I saw when I was at the schoolhouse as well. Most Q400 FO's with any seniority want to stay in their base (i.e. not SEA), so the only reason to switch to the jet is for CA upgrade.


They couldn't even if they wanted to. FO seat lock is 4 years.

flyblo
12-22-2017, 05:45 PM
They couldn't even if they wanted to. FO seat lock is 4 years.

Please forgive - I'm learning the industry...what does seat lock mean?

art aviator
12-22-2017, 07:41 PM
I don't know what it is, but half of the OO radio calls these days @ SFO seem to be from Aussies. Really. Ok perhaps not actually half, but quite a few.

Thereís not that many,
Itís just me.
I fly a lot...

snackysmores
12-23-2017, 12:31 AM
Please forgive - I'm learning the industry...what does seat lock mean?

It means you are locked in your current seat for a certain amount of time. All FOs are locked in whatever aircraft they are typed in.. you cannot go from Q400 FO to jet FO for 4 years and vice versa. There are only two q400 FOs with that longevity who have made the switch.

There is no seat lock preventing you from upgrading, but once you do you are locked in that seat as well. Q400 to Jet is 1 year because the jet pays slightly more. Jet to Q400 CA is 2 years.

They have intentionally made the FO seat lock that long because the jet is a recruitment tool.

flyblo
12-23-2017, 09:41 AM
It means you are locked in your current seat for a certain amount of time. All FOs are locked in whatever aircraft they are typed in.. you cannot go from Q400 FO to jet FO for 4 years and vice versa. There are only two q400 FOs with that longevity who have made the switch.

There is no seat lock preventing you from upgrading, but once you do you are locked in that seat as well. Q400 to Jet is 1 year because the jet pays slightly more. Jet to Q400 CA is 2 years.

They have intentionally made the FO seat lock that long because the jet is a recruitment tool.

Cool - thanks for the explanation.

The jet was a factor for my decision, but I'm honestly not worried about upgrade. I'm a USAF reservist, so I'm sitting OK on heavy turbine PIC. Flying more and getting some 121 time are my only goals at this point!

3PerRev
12-29-2017, 05:41 PM
Will someone explain the airline pay system?
What does "guarenteed 70 hours for line holders and 75 hours for reserve" mean? Is this the number of hours every pay period (two weeks?), every month? Do normal schedules meet or exceed these? I've also read that some airlines pay overtime at 150-200%. True? Thanks. I'm a complete noob to the airline industry.

snackysmores
12-29-2017, 09:36 PM
Will someone explain the airline pay system?
What does "guarenteed 70 hours for line holders and 75 hours for reserve" mean? Is this the number of hours every pay period (two weeks?), every month? Do normal schedules meet or exceed these? I've also read that some airlines pay overtime at 150-200%. True? Thanks. I'm a complete noob to the airline industry.

If you're on reserve you will be paid a minimum of 75 hours per month no matter how little you fly. You can certainly go over that and probably will. 70 hours for line holders.

Normal schedules credit somewhere around the 80-90 hour range I'd say.

Management offers 150% to pick up premium pay.

Griever
12-30-2017, 08:38 AM
Will someone explain the airline pay system?
What does "guarenteed 70 hours for line holders and 75 hours for reserve" mean? Is this the number of hours every pay period (two weeks?), every month? Do normal schedules meet or exceed these? I've also read that some airlines pay overtime at 150-200%. True? Thanks. I'm a complete noob to the airline industry.

Hey, so just so we are on the same page, you are 100% a noob regarding airline pay, right? Are the follow in terms familiar to you?

per diem, duty rig, time away from base, or minimum daily credit

If not we can help you navigate your way through. It's not very intuitive.

3PerRev
12-30-2017, 09:16 AM
Hey, so just so we are on the same page, you are 100% a noob regarding airline pay, right? Are the follow in terms familiar to you?

per diem, duty rig, time away from base, or minimum daily credit

If not we can help you navigate your way through. It's not very intuitive.

Nope. 100% noob to airlines in general. Go ahead an explain them all. I know the terms, but probably not in the "airline" way.

CurseURedBaron
01-02-2018, 02:27 AM
Looking to win the stupid question award: indoc wasnít super informative. Can someone PM me instructions on how to get to the SEA crew room? I know the codes and such from the AIC, but thatís only half the battle.

Thx

hawgwild
01-02-2018, 06:59 AM
Looking to win the stupid question award: indoc wasnít super informative. Can someone PM me instructions on how to get to the SEA crew room? I know the codes and such from the AIC, but thatís only half the battle.

Thx

When you're in the C concourse, find a fellow QXer, it'll be pretty easy, and have them show you. That's what I had to do when I first started.

DashAviator
01-02-2018, 07:29 AM
Looking to win the stupid question award: indoc wasnít super informative. Can someone PM me instructions on how to get to the SEA crew room? I know the codes and such from the AIC, but thatís only half the battle.

Thx

If you have an early morning IOE trip (for example) and there aren't a lot of Horizon crew at the airport yet, here's what I suggest:

(1) Call Crew Scheduling the night before, and have them pass on a message to your check airman. Tell him/her that you don't know where the crew room is and will meet him/her at Gate C10 (or any other suitable location).

(2) Crew Scheduling's phone number is on the first page of Section 4.3 of the Flight Ops Manual. Put it in your phone. If you are delayed for any reason, call Crew Scheduling to avoid getting a "late show".

(3) If you can, go to the airport a day ahead and scope out the employee parking and try to find the crew room. This will reduce your stress level on the first day of work.

Montanaflying
01-02-2018, 08:51 AM
Can any current QX pilots give a quick breakdown of RSV rules. Ready RSV, long/short call? Extension protections, if any. Thanks.

snackysmores
01-02-2018, 11:07 AM
Can any current QX pilots give a quick breakdown of RSV rules. Ready RSV, long/short call? Extension protections, if any. Thanks.

Airport reserve is a 15 min call out. 8 hours. 4 hours credit. Can be assigned any trip.

Short call is a 2 hour call out in PDX/sea, and 90 minutes at other bases. 12 hour reserve availability period. 3.97 credit. Can be converted to airport 8 times per bid.

Long call is a 12 hour call out. 24 hour reserve availability period. Can be converted to short call but not airport.

After completion of each assignment you must call crew scheduling and if they have nothing else they will start a 30 min clock on you..after 30 minutes you are released. If you're a commuter and registered all you have to do is list for 2 Alaska flights that get you at the airport prior to your reserve start time. If you don't get on the 2nd one you can't be held accountable. On the last day of your RAP you can call at 9pm and if they have nothing else they must release you.

CurseURedBaron
01-02-2018, 12:53 PM
4 hours credit for a long call day as well, I assume?

Also, when scheduling does call, is it just the one phone number from the FOM that I can save to my favorites and allow it to ring through when Iím sleeping or does it have the potential to come up as several phone numbers?

oldgb
01-02-2018, 02:04 PM
4 hours credit for a long call day as well, I assume?

Also, when scheduling does call, is it just the one phone number from the FOM that I can save to my favorites and allow it to ring through when Iím sleeping or does it have the potential to come up as several phone numbers?

It will show up as a central number, that will not accept calls into the OPS building. All numbers dialed from the building will show up as this. Talk to anyone in the crew room to get it. I have this number saved as a favorite on my iPhone so it will get through the Do Not Disturb setting.

SIUav8er
01-09-2018, 03:25 PM
asking for, and posting, security related information on a public message board is foolish. Even if via private message. If you actually work for QX, you have an Ipad with phone numbers and contact emails for this kind of stuff. You even have your CBA conveniently located on the Ipad, all of your reserve rules and pay questions can easily be found there.

Migz74
01-16-2018, 07:56 AM
How is the new hire bonus paid out?

CurseURedBaron
01-16-2018, 04:27 PM
50% upon completion of IOE. 50% at 1 year anniversary.

Migz74
01-16-2018, 05:32 PM
50% upon completion of IOE. 50% at 1 year anniversary.

1 year anniversary commencing at the end of IOE or start of training? Thanks!

CurseURedBaron
01-16-2018, 10:28 PM
I believe 1 year anniversary of your hire date but Iím not positive about that.

AlohaNG
01-18-2018, 05:59 PM
How is the new hire bonus paid out?

This is what a recruiter emailed me in regards to the E175 hiring (20k bonus). I believe the Q400 will be 25k total.

The time that qualifies is:

Any 121 time
Part 135 PIC time with multi-engine and multi-crew
Military PIC (Commander) time with multi-engine and multi-crew

So if you calculate how many hours you have in these categories it will determine your bonus.

< 500 Hours you will receive $10,000 ($5,000 after OE and $5,000 18 months after OE)

500-749 Hours you will receive $15,000 ($10,000 after OE and $5,000 18 months after OE)

750+ Hours you will receive $20,000 ($15,000 after OE and $5,000 18 months after OE)

Migz74
01-18-2018, 11:09 PM
This is what a recruiter emailed me in regards to the E175 hiring (20k bonus). I believe the Q400 will be 25k total.

The time that qualifies is:

Any 121 time
Part 135 PIC time with multi-engine and multi-crew
Military PIC (Commander) time with multi-engine and multi-crew

So if you calculate how many hours you have in these categories it will determine your bonus.

< 500 Hours you will receive $10,000 ($5,000 after OE and $5,000 18 months after OE)

500-749 Hours you will receive $15,000 ($10,000 after OE and $5,000 18 months after OE)

750+ Hours you will receive $20,000 ($15,000 after OE and $5,000 18 months after OE)

Thanks! I will definitely get some clarification. I was under the impression that it was 20k across the board. At least thatís what I remember from the presentation at the interview. This is a concern as I donít have any 121 / 135 time.

Donuthole
01-24-2018, 05:52 PM
Anyone starting training that needs to rent a room PM me.

CurseURedBaron
01-25-2018, 01:09 PM
Is the uniform required on a deadhead? My first trip starts with a day thatís only a DH.

Thx

Learjet
01-25-2018, 02:21 PM
Could someone please let me know who the current flight training manager is at Horizon Air.
Thanks

snackysmores
01-25-2018, 05:59 PM
Is the uniform required on a deadhead? My first trip starts with a day thatís only a DH.

Thx

No.

filler.

CurseURedBaron
01-29-2018, 08:34 PM
Opinion poll: Should 121 pilots still keep a paper logbook?

ASpilot2be
01-29-2018, 09:43 PM
Opinion poll: Should 121 pilots still keep a paper logbook?

I say it comes down to personal preference. I use logbook pro, and it is amazing. Plus it is cheap to print at Kinkos. For the Alaska interview they said nothing about it, and it has over 4000 hours in it.

SIUav8er
01-29-2018, 11:05 PM
Is "ASpilot2be" even an line qualified pilot at Horizon Air? He sure has lot of opinions and "insight".... but I question the source. Hey "ASpilot2be" are you even employed by Horizon as line pilot or are you an HR/pilot recruiter?

ASpilot2be
01-29-2018, 11:32 PM
Is "ASpilot2be" even an line qualified pilot at Horizon Air? He sure has lot of opinions and "insight".... but I question the source. Hey "ASpilot2be" are you even employed by Horizon as line pilot or are you an HR/pilot recruiter?

I am a new pilot for QX. The OP just asked an opinion, so just threw in my two cents.

TyWebb
02-08-2018, 04:22 PM
So there are a few Alaska Air deals that are linked to some really great ski resorts and one I am interested in is any flight to Spokane boarding pass will get you a free day at Red Mountain, BC. Could a pilot based out of Spokane work something with ticketing to get a boarding pass and take advantage of said deal? I was thinking there may be some ethics involved but then thought about a commuter flying back to Spokane would have a boarding pass, so why couldn't a front seater obtain one. Same goes for the Alaskan resorts that offer a similar deal.

trc8301
02-08-2018, 05:29 PM
So there are a few Alaska Air deals that are linked to some really great ski resorts and one I am interested in is any flight to Spokane boarding pass will get you a free day at Red Mountain, BC. Could a pilot based out of Spokane work something with ticketing to get a boarding pass and take advantage of said deal? I was thinking there may be some ethics involved but then thought about a commuter flying back to Spokane would have a boarding pass, so why couldn't a front seater obtain one. Same goes for the Alaskan resorts that offer a similar deal.

I was told through a fairly reliable source that they actually check to see if the person flew. I don't know how accurate that is, but that is my understanding.

TyWebb
02-08-2018, 05:38 PM
Wow really? Who checks? That's fine I am not even at horizon so I am counting some chickens before they hatch... but that would've been a hell of a perk for a avid skier.

trc8301
02-08-2018, 07:28 PM
Wow really? Who checks? That's fine I am not even at horizon so I am counting some chickens before they hatch... but that would've been a hell of a perk for a avid skier.

It sounds like the resorts that participate send a list to those who use it to check against the lists of who flew. So it just puts the program at risk more than anything.

MooneyGuy128
02-10-2018, 06:34 PM
Hi all,

I'm approaching my ATP mins (currently working for a Part 135) and weighing my regional options and had a few questions that I was hoping to get some answers to. I found the answers to some of these further back in the threads but are now a few months old and looking for some current input.

- Has the amount of time from starting class to finishing IOE decreased at all? What would be an approximate current training timeframe?

- How long would it take to hold GEG as a Q-400 FO and how long on reserve there once your able to hold it?

Any other input or advice for someone looking at coming to Horizon would also be very much appreciated. Thanks!

Fly10half
02-11-2018, 09:00 PM
So there are a few Alaska Air deals that are linked to some really great ski resorts and one I am interested in is any flight to Spokane boarding pass will get you a free day at Red Mountain, BC. Could a pilot based out of Spokane work something with ticketing to get a boarding pass and take advantage of said deal? I was thinking there may be some ethics involved but then thought about a commuter flying back to Spokane would have a boarding pass, so why couldn't a front seater obtain one. Same goes for the Alaskan resorts that offer a similar deal.

I've done it in Anc. Worked the morning FAI turn. Before leaving FAI I had them print me out a boarding pass with a seat number, then just take me off right after. Got back to ANC, headed over to Alyeska and voila, free lift ticket.

Jeff4912
02-18-2018, 11:37 AM
Hi all,

I'm approaching my ATP mins (currently working for a Part 135) and weighing my regional options and had a few questions that I was hoping to get some answers to. I found the answers to some of these further back in the threads but are now a few months old and looking for some current input.

- Has the amount of time from starting class to finishing IOE decreased at all? What would be an approximate current training timeframe?

- How long would it take to hold GEG as a Q-400 FO and how long on reserve there once your able to hold it?

Any other input or advice for someone looking at coming to Horizon would also be very much appreciated. Thanks!

I would be interested in the answers to this question too. Also closing in on ATP mins. and looking for GEG to base out of as a FO.

BigfatQ
02-19-2018, 12:06 AM
GEG should be easy to get for an FO. A couple FOs before me were first based there before they got PDX

Bukowski
02-19-2018, 01:44 AM
I'm an E175 FO currently waiting EO. I finished my LOE on 5 JAN.

I'm feeling a bit disconnected from the plane and have a trip coming up. I've been chair flying and reviewing memory items but we couldn't cover everything. I'm a bit stressed about my first flight. Any suggestions? I thought about contacting the union. Thoughts?

.

Excargodog
02-19-2018, 06:06 AM
I'm an E175 FO currently waiting EO. I finished my LOE on 5 JAN.

I'm feeling a bit disconnected from the plane and have a trip coming up. I've been chair flying and reviewing memory items but we couldn't cover everything. I'm a bit stressed about my first flight. Any suggestions? I thought about contacting the union. Thoughts?

.

Only that Horizon appears to have fouled up its transition to jets just about as thoroughly as possible. Sorry.

popNfresh
02-19-2018, 06:18 AM
I'm an E175 FO currently waiting EO. I finished my LOE on 5 JAN.

I'm feeling a bit disconnected from the plane and have a trip coming up. I've been chair flying and reviewing memory items but we couldn't cover everything. I'm a bit stressed about my first flight. Any suggestions? I thought about contacting the union. Thoughts?

.

I would suggest jump seating in the actual for an observation flight or two. Skywest has been making observation flights mandatory while awaiting IOE. Good luck!

oldgb
02-19-2018, 06:29 AM
I'm an E175 FO currently waiting EO. I finished my LOE on 5 JAN.

I'm feeling a bit disconnected from the plane and have a trip coming up. I've been chair flying and reviewing memory items but we couldn't cover everything. I'm a bit stressed about my first flight. Any suggestions? I thought about contacting the union. Thoughts?

.

Like stated earlier, try to jump seat. You could probably also practice your flows in the seat while the plane is sitting there. I donít think contactin the union would do any good; they know about the delays, and more importantly, so does the company.

Bukowski
02-19-2018, 06:51 AM
Like stated earlier, try to jump seat. You could probably also practice your flows in the seat while the plane is sitting there. I donít think contactin the union would do any good; they know about the delays, and more importantly, so does the company.

I was thinking maybe the union could put in contact with someone that could guide me through SEATAC. I've flown the **** out of my chair. Not complaining.

Bukowski
02-19-2018, 06:58 AM
One more question. Should I contact the captain before jumpseating?

Bukowski
02-19-2018, 07:05 AM
I would suggest jump seating in the actual for an observation flight or two. Skywest has been making observation flights mandatory while awaiting IOE. Good luck!

Thank you!

MooneyGuy128
02-19-2018, 07:10 AM
GEG should be easy to get for an FO. A couple FOs before me were first based there before they got PDX

Thanks for the response, much appreciated! How's the Q-400 training timeline from start to finish looking these days? I had heard of folks taking 5 months from starting class to finishing IOE, is that still the case?

oldgb
02-19-2018, 12:24 PM
One more question. Should I contact the captain before jumpseating?

PM sent...

snackysmores
02-19-2018, 12:32 PM
One more question. Should I contact the captain before jumpseating?

When skywest had to cover our flying with 200s beginning last october we believe they renegotiated their contract with AAG and secured all of the nice jet flying in addition to the SAN base. This leaves Qx jets flying mostly short 30 minute flights in the 175. It would be easy for you to jumpseat on one of those shuttles. No need to contact the captain, just show up and ask for a ride!

ftaba1
02-19-2018, 01:31 PM
I'm interested in this question as well, i.e. Q400 training timeline!

Also, any idea how long till a Q400 FO can get Seattle base (at least for as of now)?

Thanks
Thanks for the response, much appreciated! How's the Q-400 training timeline from start to finish looking these days? I had heard of folks taking 5 months from starting class to finishing IOE, is that still the case?

Bukowski
02-19-2018, 07:11 PM
When skywest had to cover our flying with 200s beginning last october we believe they renegotiated their contract with AAG and secured all of the nice jet flying in addition to the SAN base. This leaves Qx jets flying mostly short 30 minute flights in the 175. It would be easy for you to jumpseat on one of those shuttles. No need to contact the captain, just show up and ask for a ride!

Thanks Snacky

MedSledDriver
02-20-2018, 09:49 AM
Does anyone have an idea what first year FO take home pay is on reserve? Does it very from base to base?

I know the company says over $80k first year total compensation but I'm not buying it.

Fixnem2Flyinem
02-20-2018, 10:24 AM
Does anyone have an idea what first year FO take home pay is on reserve? Does it very from base to base?

I know the company says over $80k first year total compensation but I'm not buying it.

Plan on 2000-2200 take home a month on reserve if not flying (Ejet pilots). Add another 300-500 in per diem if your on the Q, because you will not be sitting idle on reserve. That figure is what I walk with, keep in mind I donít have medical coming out of my pay since Iím on my wifeís insurance. Iíve heard medical can range from 100 up to 800 a month depending on your family situation. Also on the Q you can pick up premium pay trips on your days off. That will significantly boost your pay. Only time I really get premium is if I get extended into days off, which will happen a few times

FlyingOliver
02-20-2018, 09:53 PM
Plan on 2000-2200 take home a month on reserve if not flying (Ejet pilots). Add another 300-500 in per diem if your on the Q, because you will not be sitting idle on reserve. That figure is what I walk with, keep in mind I donít have medical coming out of my pay since Iím on my wifeís insurance. Iíve heard medical can range from 100 up to 800 a month depending on your family situation. Also on the Q you can pick up premium pay trips on your days off. That will significantly boost your pay. Only time I really get premium is if I get extended into days off, which will happen a few times

What?? $2k per month.. I calculated the Q at $40 per hour *75 hours min pay is $3000/month +per diems = $3300..

ASpilot2be
02-20-2018, 10:20 PM
What?? $2k per month.. I calculated the Q at $40 per hour *75 hours min pay is $3000/month +per diems = $3300..

That doesnt account for taxes. After taxes and other things, $2k is about right.

Stinger6
02-21-2018, 04:49 AM
What's the best flashlight for preflight and/or cockpit use? Training says bring a 2 D-cell or equivalent, such as a Surefire.

I lost my old Maglight. Never was as bright as these new LEDs anyway. But crikey the Surefire is expen$ive. And so many models, and all of them look too bright for the cockpit.

Without going down the rabbit hole of the ambiguity in the FARs, what are people carrying? Hmmm...using I should say. "What are you carrying" is a 2nd amendment question.

DashAviator
02-21-2018, 05:18 AM
Nobody really gets too wound up about what type of flashlight you carry. Basically, you want something reasonably bright (for inspecting the airplane) and tough enough to survive life in your chart case. Recommendation: If you don't already have a good flashlight, run down to the auto parts store or outdoor store and get a Surefire knockoff. Or, order one from Amazon or REI.

DashAviator
02-21-2018, 05:23 AM
Additional comment: The interior of the Q400 (or Embraer) is plenty bright. I don't actually use my flashlight much inside the airplane, especially in flight. If you think you need a flashlight for "interior" use, get one of those little key chain sized lights.

DashAviator
02-21-2018, 05:36 AM
I'm interested in this question as well, i.e. Q400 training timeline!

Also, any idea how long till a Q400 FO can get Seattle base (at least for as of now)?

Thanks

I just ran into a couple of our junior FO's that recently finished training. It took them just over four months from Day 1 of ground school to the completion of IOE. Upgrades are going a little bit quicker, say 3 months.

Seattle is currently our senior base for First Officers in the Q400. Based on my casual inspection of the seniority list, you should be able to get Seattle within about a year. The "junior" FO bases are Medford, Portland, and Boise.

Btoflyer
02-21-2018, 08:05 AM
Hey y'all, looking for some heads up on how to navigate Open Time. I just got signed off on the Embraer and now I need to start banking time towards consolidation. Not many open trips, so they've got me on all short call reserve. Who do I call to get 12 hr reserve (if that's even possible)? I also wanted to drop a SEA PDX leg so I wouldn't waste twelve hours of my time for a 48 minute flight, but apparently I'm doing it wrong.

Bottom line, who/what is the resource for "Horizon Pilot Scheduling for Dummies"?

Taylor814ce
02-21-2018, 08:34 AM
Hey y'all, looking for some heads up on how to navigate Open Time. I just got signed off on the Embraer and now I need to start banking time towards consolidation. Not many open trips, so they've got me on all short call reserve. Who do I call to get 12 hr reserve (if that's even possible)? I also wanted to drop a SEA PDX leg so I wouldn't waste twelve hours of my time for a 48 minute flight, but apparently I'm doing it wrong.

Bottom line, who/what is the resource for "Horizon Pilot Scheduling for Dummies"?

You can not pickup open time while on reserve... even on your days off.

DashAviator
02-21-2018, 10:00 AM
Hey y'all, looking for some heads up on how to navigate Open Time. I just got signed off on the Embraer and now I need to start banking time towards consolidation. Not many open trips, so they've got me on all short call reserve. Who do I call to get 12 hr reserve (if that's even possible)? I also wanted to drop a SEA PDX leg so I wouldn't waste twelve hours of my time for a 48 minute flight, but apparently I'm doing it wrong.

Bottom line, who/what is the resource for "Horizon Pilot Scheduling for Dummies"?

PM sent. I just finished consolidation on the captain side, did a mixture of reserve, trips, and sim support.

Fixnem2Flyinem
02-21-2018, 02:03 PM
What?? $2k per month.. I calculated the Q at $40 per hour *75 hours min pay is $3000/month +per diems = $3300..

That little thing called taxes, Iím right in the middle of year one and I can assure you TAKE HOME is around 2-2.2 before per diem

MedSledDriver
02-22-2018, 12:58 AM
What?? $2k per month.. I calculated the Q at $40 per hour *75 hours min pay is $3000/month +per diems = $3300..

I know what you mean. $2,000 a month was a kick in the nuts for me too. It would be a pay cut from flying Learjets only 200 hours a year.

How much does open time pay on the Q? How much are the bonuses after taxes?

Stinger6
02-22-2018, 04:44 AM
I know what you mean. $2,000 a month was a kick in the nuts for me too. It would be a pay cut from flying Learjets only 200 hours a year.

How much does open time pay on the Q? How much are the bonuses after taxes?

THIS.

This is why I keep asking this unanswered question, despite the risk to sanity, certificate, and life. The wages (though markedly improved) are just not sustainable on the right side of the aircraft, so what does the company require to upgrade?

DashAviator
02-22-2018, 06:30 AM
There are many pilots at Horizon that managed to survive for 10 years or more on FO pay (yes, it's hard). My annual pay as a FO ranged from a low of $18,000 to a high of $60,000. As a senior FO, my annual pay averaged around $50,000.

The company website claims that Year 1 compensation is around $80,000. I'm not sure where they're getting this number. Before taxes and deductions, here's what you can expect:

Pay: $40,000.
Per Diem: $5000
Bonus: $10,000 to $15,000 (plus maybe another $5000 at the completion of Year 1).

Total: $55,000 to $60,000.
Take-home pay: About $35,000 to $40,000.

I'm not sure what the bonus is at present - I heard that the Q400 payout is now $20,000. It's paid in two installments. After deductions, you'll get about $6700 of the $10,000 bonus. If I recall correctly, taxes on the bonus are withheld at the highest tax rate, so you'll get some money back when you file your taxes next year.

Incidentally, the numbers posted above for take-home pay seem about right. If you get a bonus, put it in the bank for an emergency fund or use it to pay down debt.

Other comments:

(1) Open time is paid at the REGULAR pay rate, unless you pick it up at premium pay (150%).

(2) Requirements to upgrade: 1000 hours Part 121. You may get partial credit for some types of Part 135 time or military time. I heard that the company and the FAA were waiving the 1000 hour requirement on a case-by-case basis, but you still need 750 hours Part 121 (or equivalent).

(3) The upgrade time for someone with no prior 121 experience is around 2 to 2.5 years. Use caution: The Q400 is not an easy aircraft to fly. You do not want to risk an accident, incident, or unsuccessful training event in this airplane.

Dash

Vanilla
02-22-2018, 07:05 AM
There are many pilots at Horizon that managed to survive for 10 years or more on FO pay (yes, it's hard). My annual pay as a FO ranged from a low of $18,000 to a high of $60,000. As a senior FO, my annual pay averaged around $50,000.

The company website claims that Year 1 compensation is around $80,000. I'm not sure where they're getting this number. Before taxes and deductions, here's what you can expect:

Pay: $40,000.
Per Diem: $5000
Bonus: $10,000 to $15,000 (plus maybe another $5000 at the completion of Year 1).

Total: $55,000 to $60,000.
Take-home pay: About $35,000 to $40,000.

I'm not sure what the bonus is at present - I heard that the Q400 payout is now $20,000. It's paid in two installments. After deductions, you'll get about $6700 of the $10,000 bonus. If I recall correctly, taxes on the bonus are withheld at the highest tax rate, so you'll get some money back when you file your taxes next year.

Incidentally, the numbers posted above for take-home pay seem about right. If you get a bonus, put it in the bank for an emergency fund or use it to pay down debt.

Other comments:

(1) Open time is paid at the REGULAR pay rate, unless you pick it up at premium pay (150%).

(2) Requirements to upgrade: 1000 hours Part 121. You may get partial credit for some types of Part 135 time or military time. I heard that the company and the FAA were waiving the 1000 hour requirement on a case-by-case basis, but you still need 750 hours Part 121 (or equivalent).

(3) The upgrade time for someone with no prior 121 experience is around 2 to 2.5 years. Use caution: The Q400 is not an easy aircraft to fly. You do not want to risk an accident, incident, or unsuccessful training event in this airplane.

Dash

One thing to consider. New hires are paid 16 hours per week at the applicable rate which is slightly less then the min monthly guarantee. This occurs until the beginning of the Bid Period following successful completion of OE.

The Q400 bonus is up to $25k depending on experience. The E175 bonus is up to $20k depending on experience.

Regarding the minimums to upgrade. The 1,000 hours SIC is an FAR (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.436). That is not waivable. The 750 hours is a company requirement which the company is relaxing and waiving on a case by case basis for those joining with prior 121 time. We already have Q upgrade awards going to December 2017 hires.

DashAviator
02-22-2018, 07:20 AM
One thing to consider. New hires are paid 16 hours per week at the applicable rate which is slightly less then the min monthly guarantee. This occurs until the beginning of the Bid Period following successful completion of OE.

The Q400 bonus is up to $25k depending on experience. The E175 bonus is up to $20k depending on experience.

Regarding the minimums to upgrade. The 1,000 hours SIC is an FAR (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.436). That is not waivable. The 750 hours is a company requirement which the company is relaxing and waiving on a case by case basis for those joining with prior 121 time. We already have Q upgrade awards going to December 2017 hires.

Re: 1000 hours of Part 121 time: Good to know, I saw the company E-mail and thought that the company had somehow wrangled an exemption.

Re: "Training" pay: Don't get me started, I get VERY angry when I hear about this. The hour credit should have been much higher, say 20-25 credit hours per week. If I recall correctly, you're on training pay until the END of the month in which you complete OE. Crew Scheduling has shamelessly abused this provision. There's been a bunch of grievances files on this issue, so it may have been changed.

sssergio
02-23-2018, 01:50 PM
So there's a 2 month delay between the completion of sim training and the beginning of IOE. Do you get to stay home during that time and do something else such as flight instruction? Reserve starts with IOE right?

ftaba1
02-23-2018, 03:07 PM
Thanks Vanilla and DashAviator, your answers are very helpful! I have a few more questions though.

16 hours per week at $40/hr for FO's? What about per diem during training?
To get full 25K bonus how much 121 time does one need to have?
Double occupancy or single for hotels during training?



One thing to consider. New hires are paid 16 hours per week at the applicable rate which is slightly less then the min monthly guarantee. This occurs until the beginning of the Bid Period following successful completion of OE.

The Q400 bonus is up to $25k depending on experience. The E175 bonus is up to $20k depending on experience.

DashAviator
02-23-2018, 03:55 PM
It's been a LOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGGG time since I did initial training. If I recall correctly, we got per diem during sim training only, not during the ground school portion of training. Hotel was double occupancy during ground school, single occupancy during sim training. It's good if you can room with your sim partner during ground training, but this won't always happen.

Vanilla
02-23-2018, 04:52 PM
Thanks Vanilla and DashAviator, your answers are very helpful! I have a few more questions though.

16 hours per week at $40/hr for FO's? What about per diem during training?
To get tfull 25K bonus how much 121 time does one need to have?
Double occupancy or single for hotels during training?

Yes to the pay. No per diem during class. Sim training, yes.

The E175 bonus(20k) is paid out as follows: (add 5k if you got the Q route)

The time that qualifies is:

Any 121 time
Part 135 PIC time with multi-engine and multi-crew
Military PIC (Commander) time with multi-engine and multi-crew

So if you calculate how many hours you have in these categories it will determine your bonus.

< 500 Hours you will receive $10,000 ($5,000 after OE and $5,000 18 months after OE)
500-749 Hours you will receive $15,000 ($10,000 after OE and $5,000 18 months after OE)
750+ Hours you will receive $20,000 ($15,000 after OE and $5,000 18 months after OE)

It's single occupancy during training starting day 1.

ftaba1
02-23-2018, 05:33 PM
Would one get full bonus if upgraded early with the previous 121 experience (say before the first year is over)?



Yes to the pay. No per diem during class. Sim training, yes.

The E175 bonus(20k) is paid out as follows: (add 5k if you got the Q route)

The time that qualifies is:

Any 121 time
Part 135 PIC time with multi-engine and multi-crew
Military PIC (Commander) time with multi-engine and multi-crew

So if you calculate how many hours you have in these categories it will determine your bonus.

< 500 Hours you will receive $10,000 ($5,000 after OE and $5,000 18 months after OE)
500-749 Hours you will receive $15,000 ($10,000 after OE and $5,000 18 months after OE)
750+ Hours you will receive $20,000 ($15,000 after OE and $5,000 18 months after OE)

It's single occupancy during training starting day 1.

Flyinlynn
02-24-2018, 02:25 AM
Yes to the pay. No per diem during class. Sim training, yes.

The E175 bonus(20k) is paid out as follows: (add 5k if you got the Q route)

The time that qualifies is:

Any 121 time
Part 135 PIC time with multi-engine and multi-crew
Military PIC (Commander) time with multi-engine and multi-crew

So if you calculate how many hours you have in these categories it will determine your bonus.

< 500 Hours you will receive $10,000 ($5,000 after OE and $5,000 18 months after OE)
500-749 Hours you will receive $15,000 ($10,000 after OE and $5,000 18 months after OE)
750+ Hours you will receive $20,000 ($15,000 after OE and $5,000 18 months after OE)

It's single occupancy during training starting day 1.


So with no prior 121, 135 or Military time that would still be a $10,000 bonus is that correct?

Excargodog
02-24-2018, 07:13 AM
So there's a 2 month delay between the completion of sim training and the beginning of IOE. Do you get to stay home during that time and do something else such as flight instruction? Reserve starts with IOE right?

If I recall correctly, you're on training pay until the END of the month in which you complete OE. Crew Scheduling has shamelessly abused this provision. There's been a bunch of grievances files on this issue, so it may have been changed.

So if I'm getting this right, unless you are going to Horizon to essentially become a street captain in the Q400, which will keep you eternally junior to everyone already working there and that "shamelessly abuses you", you would do better to go to someplace like Compass which gives everyone the $17,500 bonus within the first year rather than dragging parts of it out for 18 months, isn't going to have you sit around for months doing nothing in the middle of that training, and is actually going to get you on the line flying full schedules and making real money (to the extent regionals let you make real money) and acquiring the hours to upgrade and apply to the majors a whole lot quicker.

Look, every regional has it's problems, but it seems to me that Horizon was the only one that had to defer new planes it had coming to future months and lease new planes it had in Alaska livery to Skywest to have them fly Alaska routes just to TRY to cover their own scheduling, and even then had to cut back service. By any standard, that was badly botched.

Clearly Horizon management has totally floundered on the transition to E-175s. Yes, I know, more aircraft are coming, but the world has changed. Even newbies can be selective because MOST of us are getting MULTIPLE offers. Can anyone tell us what management changes have occurred that would reassure us that the things that happened last summer and fall are not harbingers of what will happen in the future.

And as for street captains, does ANYBODY with experience in flying the Q400 at Horizon think that putting someone with 1000 hrs of 121 SIC time in some OTHER aircraft in the left seat of a Q400 and having him/her and a rookie FO shoot real world CAT III approaches into GEG on an ice-fog night is a good thing? I mean, what is your honest PROFESSIONAL opinion of that? Would you want your family in the back of that aircraft?

And I understand, you want Horizon to be successful and that requires new hires, but I asked for your professional opinion as an aviator, not as a Horizon employee.

ftaba1
02-24-2018, 12:11 PM
Does QX offer loss of medical insurance? And if yes, how much is it?

snackysmores
02-24-2018, 05:21 PM
Can anyone tell us what management changes have occurred that would reassure us that the things that happened last summer and fall are not harbingers of what will happen in the future.

We gave our CEO 1.8 million dollars so we could fire him.


And as for street captains, does ANYBODY with experience in flying the Q400 at Horizon think that putting someone with 1000 hrs of 121 SIC time in some OTHER aircraft in the left seat of a Q400 and having him/her and a rookie FO shoot real world CAT III approaches into GEG on an ice-fog night is a good thing? I mean, what is your honest PROFESSIONAL opinion of that? Would you want your family in the back of that aircraft?


It's not safe, we all know it. The FAA knows it. The company would rather risk safety than have to cancel flights again or offer premium pay. "Well, it's legal" has always been the companies response to moral and ethical dilemmas. Management sends us emails every week reminding us to be safe and that safety is always #1. I believe they do that just in case something happens they can throw their arms up and say "but we told them to be safe! not our fault!"

The only thing I can take solace in is that our training department is aware of this and will not be holding any hands. The Q400 CA check ride is NOT easy and plenty of FOs with years of experience on the aircraft are still failing it. Then they still have to pass CA IOE as well and prove they can handle our operation. During the summer it's easy, winter is a different story for someone with no time on the a/c.

Excargodog
02-24-2018, 05:34 PM
We gave our CEO 1.8 million dollars so we could fire him.



It's not safe, we all know it. The FAA knows it. The company would rather risk safety than have to cancel flights again or offer premium pay. "Well, it's legal" has always been the companies response to moral and ethical dilemmas. Management sends us emails every week reminding us to be safe and that safety is always #1. I believe they do that just in case something happens they can throw their arms up and say "but we told them to be safe! not our fault!"

The only thing I can take solace in is that our training department is aware of this and will not be holding any hands. The Q400 CA check ride is NOT easy and plenty of FOs with years of experience on the aircraft are still failing it. Then they still have to pass CA IOE as well and prove they can handle our operation. During the summer it's easy, winter is a different story for someone with no time on the a/c.

A PROFESSIONAL answer and pretty much what I had surmised. Thanks.

Stinger6
02-25-2018, 01:37 PM
So if I'm getting this right, unless you are going to Horizon to essentially become a street captain in the Q400, which will keep you eternally junior to everyone already working there and that "shamelessly abuses you", you would do better to go to someplace like Compass which gives everyone the $17,500 bonus within the first year rather than dragging parts of it out for 18 months, isn't going to have you sit around for months doing nothing in the middle of that training, and is actually going to get you on the line flying full schedules and making real money (to the extent regionals let you make real money) and acquiring the hours to upgrade and apply to the majors a whole lot quicker.

Look, every regional has it's problems, but it seems to me that Horizon was the only one that had to defer new planes it had coming to future months and lease new planes it had in Alaska livery to Skywest to have them fly Alaska routes just to TRY to cover their own scheduling, and even then had to cut back service. By any standard, that was badly botched.

Clearly Horizon management has totally floundered on the transition to E-175s. Yes, I know, more aircraft are coming, but the world has changed. Even newbies can be selective because MOST of us are getting MULTIPLE offers. Can anyone tell us what management changes have occurred that would reassure us that the things that happened last summer and fall are not harbingers of what will happen in the future.

And as for street captains, does ANYBODY with experience in flying the Q400 at Horizon think that putting someone with 1000 hrs of 121 SIC time in some OTHER aircraft in the left seat of a Q400 and having him/her and a rookie FO shoot real world CAT III approaches into GEG on an ice-fog night is a good thing? I mean, what is your honest PROFESSIONAL opinion of that? Would you want your family in the back of that aircraft?

And I understand, you want Horizon to be successful and that requires new hires, but I asked for your professional opinion as an aviator, not as a Horizon employee.


There's a syntactical, grammatical and logical error in your post. I am not taunting, rather seeking clarification, as I am also a West Coaster trying to make the best decision. Since I see you over on Compass trying to get a sense of upgrade times there, can I infer you have not accepted an offer yet? Or is it that you have accepted multiple offers and are trying to decide which company won't get your tushy in the seat (that is to say, left with an opening in a training class)? Or is it another possibility that I haven't figured out yet?

Are you implying that Horizon is a bad place to work and that Compass is a good place to work? Seems like they're all backed up on training, too. And then, the idea that it is necessarily unsafe to go fly the airplane after training is bothersome. Either the training department adheres to a standard or it doesn't...anyway, I'm not trying to be insulting (it just comes naturally); I AM trying to get to the root of your point. Horizon is awful and Compass is great? Or...jets are way easier to fly than turboprops? Or...a few hundred hours isn't enough training? Or...PICs with x000 hours should only be partnered with SICs with x000 hours? The notion that legal and safe are not equal is kind of why the captain has some discretion, or do they?
Or...what? I am genuinely intrigued by your post and eagerly await your reply.

Excargodog
02-25-2018, 02:12 PM
There's a syntactical, grammatical and logical error in your post. I am not taunting, rather seeking clarification, as I am also a West Coaster trying to make the best decision.

I am also seeking clarification. Please identify what you believe to be the syntactical, grammatical, and logical error(s) in my post and I will try to correct and/or clarify them for you.

Stinger6
02-25-2018, 03:19 PM
I carefully read, and then re-read, and then re-read your original post. It's the word "unless" in the first paragraph that I missed, and which now throws me off the thread.

IF you meet that first criterion, THEN you are better off at Horizon. And if you don't, then you are better off at Compass? You see, your specific post threw me in to a tizzy (my problem, not yours) and I went crazy thinking maybe I should have applied to Compass.

But I didn't, and I'm looking forward to my training date at Horizon. The long perusal of the Compass board (in emotional response to your post) shows that upgrades and training are as slow or slower there than at Horizon. At least for me. For now. Unless something happens. Which it sometimes does. Ha! How's THAT for poor grammar?!?

So what I'm left with, as a potential "street captain," though I prefer the term "screech captain," is my own judgement. Taking it ALL with a large grain o' salt, and making the very broad assumption that I make it through training and IOE, I intend to heed Snacky's guidance and kinda sorta see how it goes, and re-evaluate.

Probably I will bid for a captain slot the first time I get scared by a captain, or think that pilot did something a little on the dum side. Given the reputation at QX for "lifer" captains that remind Compass pilots of their dad, it may be a while before that happens. So when this scenario occurs or next Spring, whichever happens first.

Unless. Unless something else happens. But it was the word "unless" that I wish could be clarified further.

I'm not an asshat, I just seem that way on the internet.

Stinger6
02-25-2018, 03:23 PM
Also, at Horizon I can drive to work.

Excargodog
02-25-2018, 04:00 PM
Also, at Horizon I can drive to work.

Well, clearly the ability to drive to work ought to trump everything else, :):) unless of course you wind up having to drive to BOI, GEG, or MFR. :(



As for relative upgrade time for newbies (sans previous 121 time), I think I would have to give the nod to Compass.

Like Horizon, they totally mismanaged recruitment last year. While they did not wind up having to cut back flying like Horizon did, they went seven months without hiring ANYBODY, apparently while deciding if they were going to continue their training operation in MSP (which they were closing as a domicile) or somewhere else. As a consequence they got behind the power curve, but that sort of means 'bank error in your favor' for the newbies right now, because there is a seven month gap in seniority that will accelerate upgrades for anyone behind it as the more senior people go off to the majors. Historically, Compass has far fewer lifers than Horizon. So while I may be wrong (it's happened before) I'd be willing to bet that for the newbies Captain upgrades will be faster at Compass. Their ads are claiming 18-24 month upgrades. We'll see if that happens.

Excargodog
02-25-2018, 05:34 PM
Also, at Horizon I can drive to work.

The situation as it exists after three interviews suggests to me that anyone with a thousand hours of CFI time, a few hundred hours of multi time, and the ATP written completed can probably get an offer from the only good options for northwest regional flying - Skywest, Horizon, and Compass, UNLESS they have a history of significant training problems, FAA violations, criminal background (including more than one DUI), fail the drug test, or have readily visible obscene or pornographic tattoos. For those in the latter categories, well, I suppose there is Mesa. ;)


From my perspective, not having any prior 121 time to even give me the option for higher Horizon bonuses, my priorities may be different than yours. I've made assumptions based upon a lot of research, although I'll readily admit those assumptions may be incorrect. The first of these is that the E-175 is the best option.

Now I am NOT denigrating the Q400. It is in its own way a pretty awesome aircraft, and probably the more demanding one to fly - and certainly if you are doing Cat IIIa approaches in it. A senior FO and soon to be Captain has addressed that better than I can on another thread.

But the E-175 openings give you an Embraer 170/190 type rating. One of the majors and a couple of the LCCs are either already flying 190s as their bottom aircraft in their inventory or intend to do so in the future. I believe that confers upon those already type-rated and current in the aircraft a competitive advantage in looking for jobs beyond the majors.

Right now it appears to me that both Skywest and Horizon are using their E-175 FO openings (and in the case of Skywest, their more western domiciles) as recruiting fodder. Sign with us and fly the E-175 in the beautiful NW.

But it's also apparent that two-thirds of the Skywest and Horizon fleets are going to be other aircraft, smaller CRs for Skywest (not unlike Horizon once flew) and the Q400 for Horizon. According to a friend who has been flying for Skywest as an E-175 FO for a couple years, he could have upgraded to CR Captain immediately after getting 1000 hrs of 121 (and wound up on reserve at ORD) but to make Captain in the 175 in SEA he's going to have to have about two and a half years additional seniority.

Similarly, so many of the senior people (Captains AND FOs) went to the 175 that Horizon has put an extra $5K in the kitty for those with prior 121 who will go to it and I would be greatly surprised if any newly hired FO without serious 121 time would be able to upgrade to Captain in the 175 any time soon.

So yes, one priority is the aircraft, one priority is the locale, and one priority is the upgrade time. Part of my thinking is that Compass doesn't even have the OPTION of pushing people to upgrade in aircraft that they are phasing out (and that are not in desirable domiciles) and that I believe (rightly or wrongly) would give me less opportunity at advancement past the regionals than the E-175. And yes, lacking 121 time, the $17,500 bonus for all comers makes a difference too.

Excargodog
02-26-2018, 07:22 AM
BUSINESS NEWSFEBRUARY 25, 2018 / 8:28 AM / UPDATED 9 HOURS AGO
Boeing to have 51 percent stake in venture with Embraer
......

Yet another reason I believe the E170/190 type rating is going to be a big plus for getting hired at the majors. Embraer already has their E-2 models well along in development. Most of these models are not within scope clauses for operation by WO regionals, they are intended to be flown by larger airlines in place of the smaller aircraft they will soon be retiring, such as the early model 737, MD80s, etc. That's a niche that Boeing can't quite as effectively fill with the now too-big 737 Max. And these aircraft - or the similar CR models from Bombardier are also key to United moving their operations back into the medium sized towns they have announced their intention of doing.

I think an E-170/190 rating and experience will provide an almost seamless transition to the legacy carriers who are already or will soon be flying these aircraft. Yes, it will be on the bottom of their equipment list and with the bottom salaries, but it will get the seniority number established. After that all those impending retirements will do the rest.

My opinion, anyway.

word302
02-26-2018, 08:16 AM
BUSINESS NEWSFEBRUARY 25, 2018 / 8:28 AM / UPDATED 9 HOURS AGO
Boeing to have 51 percent stake in venture with Embraer
......

Yet another reason I believe the E170/190 type rating is going to be a big plus for getting hired at the majors. Embraer already has their E-2 models well along in development. Most of these models are not within scope clauses for operation by WO regionals, they are intended to be flown by larger airlines in place of the smaller aircraft they will soon be retiring, such as the early model 737, MD80s, etc. That's a niche that Boeing can't quite as effectively fill with the now too-big 737 Max. And these aircraft - or the similar CR models from Bombardier are also key to United moving their operations back into the medium sized towns they have announced their intention of doing.

I think an E-170/190 rating and experience will provide an almost seamless transition to the legacy carriers who are already or will soon be flying these aircraft. Yes, it will be on the bottom of their equipment list and with the bottom salaries, but it will get the seniority number established. After that all those impending retirements will do the rest.

My opinion, anyway.

Nobody cares if you already have a type rating on equipment they fly. They're going to train you to fly the plane the way they want you to fly it.

deadpixel
02-26-2018, 03:09 PM
Can any recent interviewees comment on how accurate the gouge is? Looking to interview in the next couple of weeks..looks like HR is a standard HR interview, and technical is a PNW flight plan reading jepp charts/notams.

Thanks!

Stinger6
02-26-2018, 04:45 PM
The aviation interviews dot com gouge was spot on. Regarding HR (and even some of the kind of peculiar tech questions) note the date the question was submitted. I interviewed in a pool of 14. I would say that the 2 who were not offered positions struggled with Jepp charts and one had a difficult time explaining lessons learned from failed check rides (based on talking with them in the pax terminal when headed home). A very very pleasant experience if well prepared.

What's a peculiar tech question? Service volumes of VORs is one that pops to mind. Submitted a long time ago.

Tech: read decode wx and plan a flight. No tricks.
HR: Why flying? Why Horizon? What's your story? No tricks.

I had a letter of rec from an Alaska captain...a fellow I literally gave the coat off my back to a hundred million years ago when we were both starting in Part 121.

I have a significant break in flying, no violations, accidents, DUIs, or pornographic tattoos.

I am a CFI. Big woop.

I also submitted this on aviation interviews. So, pay your $20 and subscribe. :)

deadpixel
02-26-2018, 08:21 PM
The aviation interviews dot com gouge was spot on. Regarding HR (and even some of the kind of peculiar tech questions) note the date the question was submitted. I interviewed in a pool of 14. I would say that the 2 who were not offered positions struggled with Jepp charts and one had a difficult time explaining lessons learned from failed check rides (based on talking with them in the pax terminal when headed home). A very very pleasant experience if well prepared.

What's a peculiar tech question? Service volumes of VORs is one that pops to mind. Submitted a long time ago.

Tech: read decode wx and plan a flight. No tricks.
HR: Why flying? Why Horizon? What's your story? No tricks.

I had a letter of rec from an Alaska captain...a fellow I literally gave the coat off my back to a hundred million years ago when we were both starting in Part 121.

I have a significant break in flying, no violations, accidents, DUIs, or pornographic tattoos.

I am a CFI. Big woop.

I also submitted this on aviation interviews. So, pay your $20 and subscribe. :)

Thanks--wanted to make sure it was worth it. Appreciate the insight.

Hang em High
02-27-2018, 04:33 AM
Thanks--wanted to make sure it was worth it. Appreciate the insight.

I would also agree with aviation interviews gouge as being spot on. I used them for my only prep and could not have been happier. Everything that is written in the gouge is exactly how it happened or questions that were asked. If you understanding to read jepps low level, know how to flight plan, can read a metar, and notams, then you will be ok. Buy the $19.95 subscription. i guarantee you will not go wrong with it.

Vanilla
02-27-2018, 11:19 AM
Horizon is not one of those airlines looking for warm bodies to fill seats when it comes to recruiting. Classes are small (compared to most)... 6 to 10 newhires per class. People are getting turned down based on technical aptitude. Other airlines simply hire you if you meet the minimums and let the training do the pass or fail... which then becomes a permanent mark on your record. Horizon expects you to have a strong IFR foundation. Low vis ops (Cat III if you get the Q), mountainous, night flying doesn't leave much room for error. Gotta be on top of your game. Don't expect freebies.

ftaba1
02-27-2018, 06:24 PM
For new hires is there a seat lock for either aircraft?

Flyinlynn
02-27-2018, 06:49 PM
Well guess I wonít be heading to Horizon just yet.

They said I did good on the technical interview but because of my recent training experience at SkyWest they suggested I get a successful training event at a part 135 like Ameriflight, Empire or similar and if I want I can reapply to Horizon after I have a year flying cargo.

cactusflyer
02-28-2018, 11:54 AM
For new hires is there a seat lock for either aircraft?

There is, but given the current upgrade time, it really won't matter because you'll probably upgrade before the seat lock would expire anyway.

ftaba1
02-28-2018, 12:17 PM
There is, but given the current upgrade time, it really won't matter because you'll probably upgrade before the seat lock would expire anyway.

So, if I get hired in a jet I could upgrade in a Q400 when my number is up, correct?

snackysmores
02-28-2018, 01:57 PM
So, if I get hired in a jet I could upgrade in a Q400 when my number is up, correct?

If youre qualified to hold CA yes you can get hired on the jet, get typed, then immediately bid q400 CA

Stinger6
02-28-2018, 02:53 PM
Well guess I wonít be heading to Horizon just yet.

They said I did good on the technical interview but because of my recent training experience at SkyWest they suggested I get a successful training event at a part 135 like Ameriflight, Empire or similar and if I want I can reapply to Horizon after I have a year flying cargo.

You're going to do great...and I think an acquaintance of mine just started training at your school. I think...

Flyinlynn
02-28-2018, 03:40 PM
You're going to do great...and I think an acquaintance of mine just started training at your school. I think...

Right now not instructing or employed just burning cash working on IFR proficiency and CFI-I.

I was at KTIW until I left for SkyWest training last September.

Been flying recently out of S36 and KRNT

ftaba1
02-28-2018, 06:17 PM
Thank you. I'm learning a lot on this thread about the company. Might be applying in the near future.

If youre qualified to hold CA yes you can get hired on the jet, get typed, then immediately bid q400 CA

Stinger6
02-28-2018, 06:23 PM
I was shocked to read here that no MFR bids awarded. Any insight? Senior captains not going anywhere or just filling more PDX slots or...what? Part two: How long until those PDX captains can hold a line?

All just part of my typical very premature planning...maybe I gotta plan a PDX crash pad and I know just the guy with a guest room...I had been planning to stick around my folks' place near MFR. Super premature.

BigfatQ
02-28-2018, 10:45 PM
Maybe it's just because there are nearly twice as many captains in MFR as there are FOs

snackysmores
02-28-2018, 11:52 PM
I was shocked to read here that no MFR bids awarded. Any insight? Senior captains not going anywhere or just filling more PDX slots or...what? Part two: How long until those PDX captains can hold a line?


I think if they wanted medford they could get it. The company needs captains and a lot of people are refusing to upgrade unless they can get pdx/sea. So the company opens more slots up.

Those new hire captains will be on reserve for at least 3 years. Ouch.

ftaba1
03-01-2018, 09:08 AM
Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference between being on reserve in PDX vs holding a line there, in terms of QOL?

I think if they wanted medford they could get it. The company needs captains and a lot of people are refusing to upgrade unless they can get pdx/sea. So the company opens more slots up.

Those new hire captains will be on reserve for at least 3 years. Ouch.

DashAviator
03-01-2018, 11:02 AM
You will work your tail off on reserve, with multiple deadheads, long airport sits, and unpredictable schedules. Historically, company management has viewed unused reserves as "freeloaders", so expect to get used a lot. You will most likely do a lot of out-of-base trips and sim support (in Seattle).

During my most recent bid on reserve as a Portland-based captain, I did mostly out-of-base trips. It's kind of fun meeting crews from other bases, but I don't like deadheading and I did a lot of that. With a regular line, you have a pretty good idea of "what" your trips look like: when you start and when you will get off. You won't know on reserve.

snackysmores
03-01-2018, 11:46 AM
I will say that my time on reserve as an FO (well over a year) I was abused pretty hard. Lots of 2 hour call outs, airport reserve conversions etc.

When I upgraded and sat reserve as a captain (for much longer) it wasn't as bad, most of the time I would get an assignment 12+ hours in advance...but your mileage may vary.

BigfatQ
03-01-2018, 12:10 PM
My recent month on short call reserve as an fo was:
-3 airport conversions, 1 two hour call out, I got used twice
-The rest was scheduled about 24 hours in advance so it was almost like having a line;)
- flew over 40 hours
-> one of the two bigger bases

MooneyGuy128
03-01-2018, 01:10 PM
Any idea how long it will take to hold a line out of GEG as an FO?

cactusflyer
03-01-2018, 01:49 PM
Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference between being on reserve in PDX vs holding a line there, in terms of QOL?

It depends entirely on staffing.

I sat reserve as an FO when we were short staffed in 2014, and I think I had maybe three reserve days in a four month period where I didn't work.

Last summer I was on reserve in the left seat, and flew every single day, including a couple of extensions into days off.

By the fall, the reduction in flying (and increased staffing) meant that for September and October, I think I only flew about four days per month.

WhiteH2O
03-01-2018, 02:05 PM
My recent month on short call reserve as an fo was:
-3 airport conversions, 1 two hour call out, I got used twice
-The rest was scheduled about 24 hours in advance so it was almost like having a line;)
- flew over 40 hours
-> one of the two bigger bases

Sounds like jet reserve, not Q reserve. Amiright?

BigfatQ
03-01-2018, 02:16 PM
My name is bigfatQ. Not E ;)

ftaba1
03-01-2018, 04:11 PM
So, basically, if you are on reserve you generally don't know your trips in advance. Vs as a line holder - you do, but you are still gone for days at a time. Doesn't seem like much of a difference (or am I missing something?). How many days off do you get on reserve vs. a line holder?

What's an airport conversion?

My recent month on short call reserve as an fo was:
-3 airport conversions, 1 two hour call out, I got used twice
-The rest was scheduled about 24 hours in advance so it was almost like having a line;)
- flew over 40 hours
-> one of the two bigger bases

hawgwild
03-01-2018, 04:37 PM
Any idea how long it will take to hold a line out of GEG as an FO?

Junior GEG FO is an 8/28/17 hire which is 615/755

Fixnem2Flyinem
03-01-2018, 04:48 PM
So, basically, if you are on reserve you generally don't know your trips in advance. Vs as a line holder - you do, but you are still gone for days at a time. Doesn't seem like much of a difference (or am I missing something?). How many days off do you get on reserve vs. a line holder?

What's an airport conversion?

The downside to reserve is not knowing where your overnights will be. During certain times of the year that can make it challenging to pack for a five day block of reserve. You could be scheduled for SoCal overnights then be changed to an Edmonton or Calgary overnight. In the winter those locations require a different set of comfortable attire if you are trying to walk to the store or get some food.

You will also get reassigned and spread the entire range of the clock without knowing. Example: Last week I started reserve and had a 3pm show with a 1235am block in. Two days later I was on min rest after a 1030pm block in. Had 9am show the next day with a 3pm block in. The next morning I had a 455am show time. It can be hard to constantly shift your sleep schedule on a day or two notice. Some lines are built with ďcircadian swapsĒ as well, but at least you know about them in advance. Other than that it is similar to holding a line. Expect to have around 12-13 days off a month, mostly in blocks of 2-4.

An airport conversion consists of sitting ready at the airport in case scheduling needs coverage for a flight inside that of two hours. Airport reserve also can mean a lot of deadheading to cover one leg in the system or ferry/repo flights. You can bid for airport reserve or be converted airport from short call reserve.

ftaba1
03-01-2018, 08:42 PM
Thanks, that makes more sense now. The old am/pm switching trick! 12-13 days off is not bad though.

The downside to reserve is not knowing where your overnights will be. During certain times of the year that can make it challenging to pack for a five day block of reserve. You could be scheduled for SoCal overnights then be changed to an Edmonton or Calgary overnight. In the winter those locations require a different set of comfortable attire if you are trying to walk to the store or get some food.

You will also get reassigned and spread the entire range of the clock without knowing. Example: Last week I started reserve and had a 3pm show with a 1235am block in. Two days later I was on min rest after a 1030pm block in. Had 9am show the next day with a 3pm block in. The next morning I had a 455am show time. It can be hard to constantly shift your sleep schedule on a day or two notice. Some lines are built with “circadian swaps” as well, but at least you know about them in advance. Other than that it is similar to holding a line. Expect to have around 12-13 days off a month, mostly in blocks of 2-4.

An airport conversion consists of sitting ready at the airport in case scheduling needs coverage for a flight inside that of two hours. Airport reserve also can mean a lot of deadheading to cover one leg in the system or ferry/repo flights. You can bid for airport reserve or be converted airport from short call reserve.

cactusflyer
03-02-2018, 12:36 AM
Even when reserves get an overnight assigned, there's absolutely no guarantee crew scheduling won't change their minds partway through the day and send you somewhere else. This also applies to legs you're working, since it's also very common for crew scheduling to hijack reserves partway through a planned day and completely change their schedule for reasons that make zero sense to anyone.

DashAviator
03-02-2018, 05:35 AM
If you're new and have a six-day stretch of reserve, be sure to pack enough stuff for SIX days. Always take your roller bag, even if you "think" you're just doing a turn.

sierrajuliet
03-02-2018, 07:52 AM
Any idea how long it takes for a new hire FO to get BOI based? What about upgrade time there? What about commuting from BOI to the other bases?

MooneyGuy128
03-02-2018, 07:53 AM
Junior GEG FO is an 8/28/17 hire which is 615/755

Thanks! Appreciate the response. I assume this would be a reserve FO then?

deadpixel
03-02-2018, 03:11 PM
Any idea how long it takes for a new hire FO to get BOI based? What about upgrade time there? What about commuting from BOI to the other bases?

For what it's worth recruiter told me new hires can expect MFR/BOI out of training. I interview in a little over a week, but like all things with airlines stuff like this can change.

snackysmores
03-02-2018, 05:07 PM
For what it's worth recruiter told me new hires can expect MFR/BOI out of training. I interview in a little over a week, but like all things with airlines stuff like this can change.

BOI CA is at least 3 years

sierralima
03-03-2018, 05:59 AM
For what it's worth recruiter told me new hires can expect MFR/BOI out of training. I interview in a little over a week, but like all things with airlines stuff like this can change.

Thanks! Yeah that's what the recruiter told me, too, so I'm glad to hear that. I also wanted to see if anyone on the inside could confirm that.

sierralima
03-03-2018, 06:02 AM
BOI CA is at least 3 years

Sounds good. I'm in less of a hurry to upgrade than I am to live in Boise, so that should work out.

Another question: If I move the family to Boise after being hired (should I get the offer), and I end up at MFR or PDX, how hard will it be to get home on occasion? Do they give you more than two days off in a row ever while on reserve? Or should I plan on not seeing them for a few months?

Thanks!

CurseURedBaron
03-17-2018, 05:14 PM
Can anyone explain how premium pay works? Incentive pay? Etc.

All I know is something either happens or used to happen or whatever at 83 credits. Iím on reserve this month but itís looking like Iím gonna get about 90 credits.

Thanks.

blindfayth
03-18-2018, 05:09 AM
Sorry if this has already been asked, but what is the domicile seniority breakdown of E175 vs Q400?

How many E175 domiciles are there? How long would it take to make captain on E175?

Excargodog
03-18-2018, 08:01 AM
Sorry if this has already been asked, but what is the domicile seniority breakdown of E175 vs Q400?

How many E175 domiciles are there? How long would it take to make captain on E175?

How long would it take to make captain for a new hire FO?

Well, the Q400s are going away and every single person currently flying them is senior to you. Also, there are probably a higher percentage of lifers at Horizon than at Skywest or Compass, guys who got trapped here by the "lost decade" and are now flying their choice of schedules in the base they want to be in and have to consider if it would really even be worth it to make the move to Alaska now and start out as a junior FO on reserve,and quite possibly commuting, while making less money the first couple of their not too-many years of 121 flying left as an Alaska junior FO than they do as a senior guy here. As soon as PDX becomes an E-jet base, they are going to hop on those captaincys.

So a lot of that depends upon how fast Horizon goes all e-jet, which it likely will, and whether or not a true flow to Alaska develops, and how Horizon junior captains fare in the competition to move up to other legacies besides Alaska.

If all you are looking at is speed to make e-jet captain, going to Skywest or Compass would almost certainly be quicker, although QOL may suck, especially commuting to LGA or ORD with Skywest.

Btoflyer
03-19-2018, 09:06 PM
Sorry if this has already been asked, but what is the domicile seniority breakdown of E175 vs Q400?

How many E175 domiciles are there? How long would it take to make captain on E175?

The E175 only has one domicile - Seattle. The jet and turboprop (I fly the Embraer) have quite different schedules at present. Since we are adding jets, they're creating a training bubble for the new E175 pilots. That means there's a lot of new hires for not that many flying lines, check airman, etc. The good news is that you will learn to fly a great airplane and get a lot of time off in the first six months or so. The other good news is that upgrades are available shortly after 1000 hrs 121. They're prodding FO's to upgrade, especially to the Q400.

While I agree that the Q400 will eventually go away, it will take quite a while. We need to complete delivery of ALL 30ish E175s before we start diminishing the Q400's much further. The company wants to stay at around 60 a/c. But there is NO way that you would upgrade to CA in the jet faster at Skywest (not sure about Compass). My buddy lives in SEA, flies the E175 for Skywest, commutes to BOI and expects to upgrade around 3-4 years. My sim partner upgraded to jet CA at 1 1/2 years. My math says it's much faster at Horizon. Still, things can change on a dime.

The Q400 pilots are busy, no doubt. They have more legs per day and less time off because they're still beefing up the staff. That being said, there's still plenty of people who want to live in Medford, Boise, Spokane and Portland who are willing to fly the mighty Q and live where they want. Good news here is that the major airlines don't care whether you flew a turboprop or a jet, as long as you have some PIC 121 time. The Q400 is a faster upgrade, too.

snackysmores
03-19-2018, 11:18 PM
While I agree that the Q400 will eventually go away, it will take quite a while. We need to complete delivery of ALL 30ish E175s before we start diminishing the Q400's much further.

The Q400s are being parked on a 1:1 ratio with each jet delivery. We are not growing this year, in fact we are going to be -2 airframes by the end of 2018.