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View Full Version : PRIA Report


shrsailplanes
12-06-2017, 02:26 PM
Can anyone tell me if a firing would show up on a PRIA report? The incident did not involve any accident, damage or regulation violation. It was a company / employee issue. The incident happened in 2006.

Also, is a PRIA report the only investigation an airline will do with regard to previous pilot employment history or will they request all records from a previous employer.

Thanks,

shrsailplanes


rickair7777
12-07-2017, 06:20 AM
Can anyone tell me if a firing would show up on a PRIA report? The incident did not involve any accident, damage or regulation violation. It was a company / employee issue. The incident happened in 2006.

Also, is a PRIA report the only investigation an airline will do with regard to previous pilot employment history or will they request all records from a previous employer.

Thanks,

shrsailplanes

See AC 120-68G. Read it carefully.

This is new and *appears* to have made a big change. Most disciplinary action for non pilot-related issues was not reportable. But previously, any termination for ANY reason was reportable. The new AC appears to have removed that provision so the way I would read it now is that a termination for non-aviation issues *should* not be reported. But you should read it yourself and decide.

Also PRIA for employers only goes back five years (it is now forever for some FAA records).

But did all the past employers read the new AC? Who knows?

Regarding background checks... depends on state law, but in general they can probably ask a previous employer for anything and everything, but it's up to that employer to decide what to provide. Generally any medium or larger business today will have HR policies and only provide employment dates and re-hire eligibility. A small mom-and-pop might get vindictive and say all kinds of bad things (at risk of getting sued).

Based on the rules, I think your termination should not turn up via PRIA. If called for a routine non-PRIA employment check, the company would *likely* provide dates of employment and a "not eligible" for rehire. That last would of course cause the new employer to take some action...

If it's post-interview but pre- job offer, they'll either not hire you, or contact you for more info.

If it's post-job offer, but pre class date, they'll likely ask you about it and may revoke the CJO.

If it's after you start class, they'll ask you about it and possibly let you go if you failed to disclose something they asked about.

So obvious risk in non-discloure. Conventional wisdom with airlines is to never lie to them. Much better to not get hired, than to get hired and then fired, effectively ending your 121 career for good.

shrsailplanes
12-07-2017, 07:07 AM
Here is what happened.

I made the commitment to go into aviation kinda late. I was 32 when I went to school for all my ratings. I was 33 when I got hired at an all turbo prop regional airline. I left a career as a senior mechanical engineer. There was a massive disparity of salary which I knew was going to happen. $10/hr as a CFII and $17/hr as an FO.

My home life and financial life was in crisis, because I was essentially broke all the time with creditors calling me constantly. I tell you the back story only because it's important, I feel, to understand my mental state during all this.

I had just finished IOE and was flying my first line at my base which I had to air commute to and I had to pay for my own hotel which if continued would have depleted my entire salary. My route was Rochester - LaGuardia. The captain was visibly displeased with having to fly with a fresh FO out of training. He didn't want to talk to me other than for procedure in the cockpit.

I am aware Captains have to maintain metrics for being on time, but he did things that we were told not to do in class and seemed unsafe just in general. It was summer time when T-storms were frequent. He flew through intense rain (red on the radar) without any request for deviation, he would fly low on the ILS to break out and then upon landings he would scold me for giving him "annoying callouts" of full dot low while on the ILS. In my mind I was just doing what I was taught in class. He was very displeased with me.

T-storms were now over the field in LGA and they were severe. We were at the gate waiting for PAX. I expressed my concern about it and if we would delay to let it pass. He didn't want to talk to me about it. I was fed up and told him I won't fly this way and I walked off the plane.

Not my proudest moment. I regret it just about daily, but in my mind at that moment, I was broke, hassled constantly by creditors and my relationship at home was just about over because of it. I didn't want to die for this guy.

I had to pay for my own way home. I spoke to my employer the next day on the phone. I told them the story I just laid out in this post. They asked what I thought they should do. I said, "You should fire me." I was already in tears because I new my career had ended and all for nothing. They wished me luck and that was the end of that. Back in 2006.

My training contract stipulated that I would pay the cost of training if I left before a year. They never asked for that money and I am grateful.

So, I am trying to correct a wrong, but I don't know if I will ever get that chance.

Thanks.


rickair7777
12-07-2017, 07:30 AM
Fundamentally you did the right thing, and I think you can salvage that. The lesson learned was how to go about things. But ultimately if the guy refused your every intervention, and was determined to fly walking off would be the only way to prevent that. I think you should have tried a progressive escalation, including calling the company.

The way to spin it is you were new, being asked to things they just trained you not to do, unfamiliar with airline culture, and ill-equipped to handle the stereotypical "nightmare CA". Your takeaway is that you learned from it, and have matured since, and have a much better understanding of airline life and associated costs and stress.

You'll have no problem getting hired at a regional, and when the time comes you should be able to get on with a major. You'll have to address...

- What you did right (not fly).
- What you did wrong.
- What you learned, how you would do it differently.
- How you have matured since.

Make sure you keep a clean record going forward, too many hiccups constitutes a trend.

shrsailplanes
12-07-2017, 10:09 AM
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it. It's been eating away at me for 12 years now.

I agree 100% that I should not try to hide the incident, or worse, lie about it if asked. I read AC 120-68G. According to the document, PRIA goes back 5 years. I'm wondering if this even will show up which puts me into another tight spot.

If they don't ask, I don't feel like I should be talking about things to give them a reason not to hire me. However, if they said, "So, what happened at your 121 job?" I would take that as my cue to spill the beans so to speak.

rickair7777
12-07-2017, 10:38 AM
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it. It's been eating away at me for 12 years now.

I agree 100% that I should not try to hide the incident, or worse, lie about it if asked. I read AC 120-68G. According to the document, PRIA goes back 5 years. I'm wondering if this even will show up which puts me into another tight spot.

If they don't ask, I don't feel like I should be talking about things to give them a reason not to hire me. However, if they said, "So, what happened at your 121 job?" I would take that as my cue to spill the beans so to speak.

They will almost certainly ask "have you ever been terminated", may as well plan on that. They will certainly want to know what happened with your brief 121 stint.

Paperboi
12-07-2017, 12:31 PM
So how would you guys handle a "being asked to resign" from airline?. If it doesn't ask on application and later they find out you aren't rehirable then what? Is there a place to volunteer this info on most legacy apps and how would you guys go about this pickle? Thanks.

rickair7777
12-07-2017, 03:54 PM
So how would you guys handle a "being asked to resign" from airline?. If it doesn't ask on application and later they find out you aren't rehirable then what? Is there a place to volunteer this info on most legacy apps and how would you guys go about this pickle? Thanks.


Most apps these days ask the question in such a manner as to cover that.

But if they CLEARLY don't ask, don't confess to anything you don't have to. It will probably come up at the interview anyway, but it's easier to explain in person.

If in doubt, don't skirt the grey area, be honest.



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