Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : I understand Kalitta now has FQS!


longhauler
12-10-2017, 12:58 PM
I didn't think it would happen to another airline, but apparently it did! How unfortunate.


fr8ghtdawg
12-10-2017, 01:30 PM
Whats FQS??

longhauler
12-10-2017, 01:36 PM
F Flight Q Qualified S Supervisor


fr8ghtdawg
12-10-2017, 02:04 PM
Oh, Scab management guys that fly in any seat. I hope they didn't agree to that!

longhauler
12-10-2017, 02:32 PM
Another term is NURP "Non-Union Replacement Pilot"

TommyDevito
12-10-2017, 02:56 PM
So why would anyone actually care?

Colt45
12-10-2017, 03:23 PM
So why would anyone actually care?

Are you serious!!?? Are you not familiar with UPS and their NURP program? WTF!??:mad:

TommyDevito
12-10-2017, 03:24 PM
Are you serious!!?? Are you not familiar with UPS and their NURP program? WTF!??:mad:

Again, the company places these managers. As a line pilot why should you care?

Colt45
12-10-2017, 03:25 PM
I didn't think it would happen to another airline, but apparently it did! How unfortunate.

I don't think our union leadership is going to let this happen. I don't think the pilot group will let this happen.

TommyDevito
12-10-2017, 03:28 PM
I don't think our union leadership is going to let this happen. I don't think the pilot group will let this happen.

Your union and pilot group can tell management who they can hire and what positions they are allowed?

Interesting.

Colt45
12-10-2017, 03:28 PM
Again, the company places these managers. As a line pilot why should you care?

Obviously you must either be a NURP, former NURP, or some form of management. I'll let someone with more patience spell it out for you.

Colt45
12-10-2017, 03:30 PM
Your union and pilot group can tell management who they can hire and what positions they are allowed?

Interesting.

deleted..... pot stirring bull****.

TommyDevito
12-10-2017, 03:40 PM
The list is long, but for starters, they steal all the open time. It violates the CBA to have them doing any checking events in the aircraft.

If it's a CBA violation that can easily be addressed through the grievance process?

Code Red
12-10-2017, 03:54 PM
This is flamebait. Mods delete this thread.

longhauler
12-10-2017, 03:58 PM
As the thread starter it is a fact and even though a descending opion has arisen is time to educate not close the tread.

No Land 3
12-10-2017, 04:01 PM
I believe the intent of the company is simply to get the new hires through IOE and nothing more. Many of them are at risk of not getting consolidated on time.
With that said, the union, pilot group, and company need to follow through according to the CBA.
On another note, lately I’ve only heard good things about the pilot in question from people who’ve had him for AQP.
I fully trust my union to follow through in addressing this.

TommyDevito
12-10-2017, 04:02 PM
I believe the intent of the company is simply to get the new hires through IOE and nothing more. Many of them are at risk of not getting consolidated on time.
With that said, the union, pilot group, and company need to follow through according to the CBA.
On another note, lately I’ve only heard good things about the pilot in question from people who’ve had him for AQP.
I fully trust my union to follow through in addressing this.

Thoughtful and complete answer. Thanks.

fr8ghtdawg
12-10-2017, 06:26 PM
How many more does the company plan to hire? This could be a really bad thing for the pilot group. I hope the union shuts this down.

Colt45
12-10-2017, 06:56 PM
How many more does the company plan to hire? This could be a really bad thing for the pilot group. I hope the union shuts this down.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I trust the union leadership will handle it accordingly.

Code Red
12-10-2017, 07:05 PM
Dude this “single” mgmt pilot has been here over a year. You been living in Bangkok lately. This thread is bull****.

Tell the whole story then.

He was here LCA went back to AA on recall. AA sucked so bad he came back and they put him on mgmt leave so he can check again.

The union will win in court and vacate this dudes title.

longhauler
12-10-2017, 07:17 PM
I know this "dude" and like him a great deal. The hopes that the Union wins the fight is not a for sure thing, as is nothing when you go into battle.

sky jet
12-11-2017, 04:07 AM
I know this "dude" and like him a great deal. The hopes that the Union wins the fight is not a for sure thing, as is nothing when you go into battle.

I know and like both of you. That aside, the company is attempting to use him in a way that contravenes the contract. Up until recently his duties for the company were within the companies rights per the CBA. They now want to use him in a way that is expressly forbidden by our contract. I am confident that this will be nipped in the bud soon so that we don't end up with the mess you have at UPS.

Code Red
12-11-2017, 04:23 AM
I know this "dude" and like him a great deal. The hopes that the Union wins the fight is not a for sure thing, as is nothing when you go into battle.

The leaprechaun says pay the fee troll.

No Land 3
12-11-2017, 06:06 AM
I understand that there was another pilot offered the same deal, but he elected to stay at AA. I do not believe the intent of the company is to replicate what UPS has done, just get these new guys done with IOE.

longhauler
12-11-2017, 06:32 AM
I know of more than one being offered to return to K4. It has been almost thirty years of fighting that system and we are slowly gaining ground, but it caused us to have furloughs due to the replacement pilot mentality during 08, 09, and into 2010.

longhauler
12-11-2017, 06:35 AM
The leaprechaun says pay the fee troll.I will buy you dinner one night and we can compare K4 stories. You can ask Ship, Sky, Lock, Scott or any of the old-timers how to get in touch with me.

myoface
12-11-2017, 07:02 AM
So let me get this straight.....there non union pilots doing what union pilots should be doing? And there are Kalitta union pilots ok with this? Is that accurate? One has to ask why they need non union pilots to do this work. Is it because the lca compensation sucks? If so then Kalitta needs to negotiate better lca compensation. If not then they need to train and compensate more lca’s. You better hope that the union puts a stop to this or it will get bigger and bigger.

maxjet
12-11-2017, 07:56 AM
So let me get this straight.....there non union pilots doing what union pilots should be doing? And there are Kalitta union pilots ok with this? Is that accurate? One has to ask why they need non union pilots to do this work. Is it because the lca compensation sucks? If so then Kalitta needs to negotiate better lca compensation. If not then they need to train and compensate more lca’s. You better hope that the union puts a stop to this or it will get bigger and bigger.
Thank you so much for putting things into perspective for me. I will get right on that and should have this completely fixed by tomorrow.

Colt45
12-11-2017, 07:56 AM
How many more does the company plan to hire? This could be a really bad thing for the pilot group. I hope the union shuts this down.

I understand that there was another pilot offered the same deal, but he elected to stay at AA. I do not believe the intent of the company is to replicate what UPS has done, just get these new guys done with IOE.

So you think it's just going to be a two pilot deal and that will be the end of it? When and at what number will this violation of the CBA stop? If they offer it to two guys, what's to prevent them from offering it to twenty?

No Land 3
12-11-2017, 08:13 AM
So you think it's just going to be a two pilot deal and that will be the end of it? When and at what number will this violation of the CBA stop? If they offer it to two guys, what's to prevent them from offering it to twenty?

Both those guys had a long history of being instructors at K4 before getting recalled to AA. I believe this is a unique situation.

maxjet
12-11-2017, 08:13 AM
Not understanding what the big fuss is about here.

I see this in the contract, “Proficiency checks, Operating Experience and Line Checks, shall only be conducted by Crewmembers on the Crew Class Seniority Lists who the Company designates as Check Airmen.”

He is on the seniority list as an FO. The company has made him a check airman. End of story. He is management so he isn’t .even flying out of seniority.

Code Red
12-11-2017, 08:42 AM
It’s in court. One person is not above the CBA.

goldfinger
12-11-2017, 08:55 AM
Not understanding what the big fuss is about here.

I see this in the contract, “Proficiency checks, Operating Experience and Line Checks, shall only be conducted by Crewmembers on the Crew Class Seniority Lists who the Company designates as Check Airmen.”

He is on the seniority list as an FO. The company has made him a check airman. End of story. He is management so he isn’t .even flying out of seniority.

You say he is an FO. If that's the case how do you explain the fact that he is out right now conducting revenue flights as a Captain?

Code Red
12-11-2017, 10:31 AM
You say he is an FO. If that's the case how do you explain the fact that he is out right now conducting revenue flights as a Captain?

His seniority is that of an FO. He’s line captain qual working as LCA on management leave. You can’t check on management leave.

All this guys training pass/fail is going to get vacated and this is gonna turn into a ****ing mess with the FAA.

The juice wasent worth the squeeze. They should have just promoted from within and saved everyone the headache.

myoface
12-11-2017, 11:39 AM
Thank you so much for putting things into perspective for me. I will get right on that and should have this completely fixed by tomorrow.

Great. Thanks for doing that.

maxjet
12-11-2017, 12:16 PM
His seniority is that of an FO. He’s line captain qual working as LCA on management leave. You can’t check on management leave.

All this guys training pass/fail is going to get vacated and this is gonna turn into a ****ing mess with the FAA.

The juice wasent worth the squeeze. They should have just promoted from within and saved everyone the headache.

So you are writing that the Chief Pilot, who is a management pilot is not able to check? He is an APD

Code Red
12-11-2017, 12:33 PM
Being intentionally hired off the street and placed on mgmt leave is a hell of a lot different than holding a 119 position.

You must be one of our joyous -400 instructors.

TommyDevito
12-11-2017, 01:41 PM
All this guys training pass/fail is going to get vacated and this is gonna turn into a ****ing mess with the FAA.
.

How do you figure that?

maxjet
12-11-2017, 01:57 PM
His seniority is that of an FO. He’s line captain qual working as LCA on management leave. You can’t check on management leave.

All this guys training pass/fail is going to get vacated and this is gonna turn into a ****ing mess with the FAA.

The juice wasent worth the squeeze. They should have just promoted from within and saved everyone the headache.

How does BR, and until a few months ago CE, SS, and SH do it then?

Code Red
12-11-2017, 02:57 PM
How does BR, and until a few months ago CE, SS, and SH do it then?

Dude you really are dense. Paul does not have the seniority to hold the line as a captain. Go read the FOTM you have access to it.

Under the current CBA said individual can ONLY train NOT check.

maxjet
12-12-2017, 06:59 AM
Dude you really are dense. Paul does not have the seniority to hold the line as a captain. Go read the FOTM you have access to it.

Under the current CBA said individual can ONLY train NOT check.
Sorry to be so dense. Please post exactly where in the contract it states that. I cannot find it.
Two separate arguments. I agree that some one should be receiving pay credit for every leg he flies out of seniority, if he is in fact flying out of seniority. (I would suggest he is not as management pilots fall under a different section of the contract, regarding flying duties. That is why CE, SH, and SS left management leave as it was hurting them financially.)

WhaleWrangler
12-13-2017, 09:25 AM
Sorry to be so dense. Please post exactly where in the contract it states that. I cannot find it.
Two separate arguments. I agree that some one should be receiving pay credit for every leg he flies out of seniority, if he is in fact flying out of seniority. (I would suggest he is not as management pilots fall under a different section of the contract, regarding flying duties. That is why CE, SH, and SS left management leave as it was hurting them financially.)

Start with Sec 22 A.2

he is not on the crew class list IE he can not hold Captain and thus can't do OE, checking etc. Also he is flying as CA outside of Crew / Class / Seniority and also this flying should be in open time, there are crews on the will fly that have not been called to fly trips that he is. Management pilots are last on the pecking order for line flying.

This has to be taken care of ASAP as the word is CE plans on bringing on more unhappy ex K4 guys like PB especially with the sweet starting pay they are being offered.

TT I find it hard to believe that you can't grasp the whole BS concept of what is happening.

Colt45
12-14-2017, 08:18 AM
Start with Sec 22 A.2

he is not on the crew class list IE he can not hold Captain and thus can't do OE, checking etc. Also he is flying as CA outside of Crew / Class / Seniority and also this flying should be in open time, there are crews on the will fly that have not been called to fly trips that he is. Management pilots are last on the pecking order for line flying.

This has to be taken care of ASAP as the word is CE plans on bringing on more unhappy ex K4 guys like PB especially with the sweet starting pay they are being offered.

TT I find it hard to believe that you can't grasp the whole BS concept of what is happening.

Agreed! I don't understand what the big comprehensive ****ing burden is for some of these guys. Also, you a correct, we are getting screwed out of OT because of this behavior. The whole pilot group should be against this.

maxjet
12-14-2017, 02:53 PM
Agreed! I don't understand what the big comprehensive ****ing burden is for some of these guys. Also, you a correct, we are getting screwed out of OT because of this behavior. The whole pilot group should be against this.

Please explain how you are getting screwed out of overtime. Management pilots must follow specific rules.

A managements Pilots authority to conduct IOE does not come from the contract. It comes from the FAA.

Management pilots do not pay union dues and are not covered by the contract.

I am still waiting on an answer regarding how the Chief Pilot is able to do checking events. If one is to go with the position that PB can’t check then neither can the CP

Code Red
12-14-2017, 05:55 PM
Please explain how you are getting screwed out of overtime. Management pilots must follow specific rules.

A managements Pilots authority to conduct IOE does not come from the contract. It comes from the FAA.

Management pilots do not pay union dues and are not covered by the contract.

I am still waiting on an answer regarding how the Chief Pilot is able to do checking events. If one is to go with the position that PB can’t check then neither can the CP

You can’t be on mgmt leave to avoid the seniority list. The CP has the seniority to be a captain.

If you can’t comprehend this go take a few days off you’ve been working too much.

Colt45
12-14-2017, 07:54 PM
You can’t be on mgmt leave to avoid the seniority list. The CP has the seniority to be a captain.

If you can’t comprehend this go take a few days off you’ve been working too much.

LMFAO!!!!! I can't comprehend why this is such a difficult concept for some of these guys to grasp. WTF?

fr8ghtdawg
12-14-2017, 09:51 PM
You can’t be on mgmt leave to avoid the seniority list. The CP has the seniority to be a captain.

If you can’t comprehend this go take a few days off you’ve been working too much.

Is Maxjet in some sort of doomsday cult??
Its like he's been brainwashed

motorclutch
12-15-2017, 03:48 AM
Sounds like Maxjet just understands the contract!

maxjet
12-15-2017, 04:00 AM
You can’t be on mgmt leave to avoid the seniority list. The CP has the seniority to be a captain.

If you can’t comprehend this go take a few days off you’ve been working too much.

Show me either language, or precedence that says you cannot. Again and as usual you go off with your condescending blanket statements with not a shred of evidence. Freakin millennials

maxjet
12-15-2017, 04:12 AM
Is Maxjet in some sort of doomsday cult??
Its like he's been brainwashed

No cult. Just reality. If the Union has a case I fully want to proceed with it and solidly draw that line for contracts in the future.

The union let the cat out of the bag innocently enough, when they allowed Management Pilots to perform checking events years ago. Thus having established the meaning of Management pilot.

To just think that you are going to declare “New Rules” is just tilting at windmills.

Again, and because I am tired of writing this: checking and training authority comes from the FAA. Flying position to do the checking comes from the status of the Check Airman. PB is a trained, current, and FAA approved Check Airman. If he is flying out of seniority (and I believe he has this month because Steve Eder says he has not been called for the will fly list) then someone should be getting paid.

If none of you MOFO’s are going to file for the bypass pay, let me know and I will put in for it.

Pay protection due to the company not following established Management Pilot rules is the only play here.

maxjet
12-15-2017, 04:30 AM
[QUOTE=WhaleWrangler;2482737]Start with Sec 22 A.2

He is not on the crew class list IE he can not hold Captain and thus can't do OE, checking etc.

I disagree, and I hope I am wrong. The Union action should clear this up.

There are crews on the will fly that have not been called to fly trips that he is. Management pilots are last on the pecking order for line flying.

If true, and I think it is, we agree wholeheartedly.

Code Red
12-15-2017, 06:21 AM
No cult. Just reality. If the Union has a case I fully want to proceed with it and solidly draw that line for contracts in the future.

The union let the cat out of the bag innocently enough, when they allowed Management Pilots to perform checking events years ago. Thus having established the meaning of Management pilot.

To just think that you are going to declare “New Rules” is just tilting at windmills.

Again, and because I am tired of writing this: checking and training authority comes from the FAA. Flying position to do the checking comes from the status of the Check Airman. PB is a trained, current, and FAA approved Check Airman. If he is flying out of seniority (and I believe he has this month because Steve Eder says he has not been called for the will fly list) then someone should be getting paid.

If none of you MOFO’s are going to file for the bypass pay, let me know and I will put in for it.

Pay protection due to the company not following established Management Pilot rules is the only play here.

The only reason PB was able to be upgraded and given a letter from the FAA was because he was placed on management leave to BYPASS the seniority list!!!!! Take him off mgmt leave and he is nothing but an FO.

fr8ghtdawg
12-15-2017, 06:23 AM
No cult. Just reality. If the Union has a case I fully want to proceed with it and solidly draw that line for contracts in the future.

The union let the cat out of the bag innocently enough, when they allowed Management Pilots to perform checking events years ago. Thus having established the meaning of Management pilot.

To just think that you are going to declare “New Rules” is just tilting at windmills.

Again, and because I am tired of writing this: checking and training authority comes from the FAA. Flying position to do the checking comes from the status of the Check Airman. PB is a trained, current, and FAA approved Check Airman. If he is flying out of seniority (and I believe he has this month because Steve Eder says he has not been called for the will fly list) then someone should be getting paid.

If none of you MOFO’s are going to file for the bypass pay, let me know and I will put in for it.

Pay protection due to the company not following established Management Pilot rules is the only play here.

Your CBA distinguishes who can and cannot check crew members, Being a check airman/management pilot does not give some magical authority to bypass the CBA. You keep repeating this but you are still wrong. If the union allowed management crew members to check in the past, It does not vacate contractual obligations by the company at a later time. If 1224 is going to litigate this against Kalitta, they (The union attorneys) are not going to lose. The attorneys are much better on the union side and will obliterate them in court. Your contract defines management crew members from crew members. Its really just a matter of time till the union runs the clock out on this. ALPA will hit the ground running on this matter if there is a transfer of representation. I know you have a fondness for Capt PB, But the contract will prevail in the end.

Code Red
12-15-2017, 10:47 AM
Your CBA distinguishes who can and cannot check crew members, Being a check airman/management pilot does not give some magical authority to bypass the CBA. You keep repeating this but you are still wrong. If the union allowed management crew members to check in the past, It does not vacate contractual obligations by the company at a later time. If 1224 is going to litigate this against Kalitta, they (The union attorneys) are not going to lose. The attorneys are much better on the union side and will obliterate them in court. Your contract defines management crew members from crew members. Its really just a matter of time till the union runs the clock out on this. ALPA will hit the ground running on this matter if there is a transfer of representation. I know you have a fondness for Capt PB, But the contract will prevail in the end.

1224 is ligitating and is fighting to vacate any failures by said check pilot.

TommyDevito
12-15-2017, 10:51 AM
1224 is ligitating and is fighting to vacate any failures by said check pilot.

The Check pilot is appointed and works under the direct supervision of the FAA. The company cannot "vacate" any failures of a 14 CFR Part 121 required check.

fr8ghtdawg
12-15-2017, 11:01 AM
The Check pilot is appointed and works under the direct supervision of the FAA. The company cannot "vacate" any failures of a 14 CFR Part 121 required check.

That is correct, The union can fight to vacate failures or discipline in regard to an employees record. This I believe is the reason that the ExCo is currently accelerating an arbitration in this matter.

TommyDevito
12-15-2017, 11:06 AM
That is correct, The union can fight to vacate failures or discipline in regard to an employees record. This I believe is the reason that the ExCo is currently accelerating an arbitration in this matter.

I still don't follow how the union expects to vacate a failure of a pilot by an FAA appointed check airman? I understand the union can ask the company not to use the failure as a judgment on said pilot, but as far as the FAA is concerned it's still a failure, and a failure that remains on the pilot's employment record and FAA record.

maxjet
12-15-2017, 03:05 PM
The only reason PB was able to be upgraded and given a letter from the FAA was because he was placed on management leave to BYPASS the seniority list!!!!! Take him off mgmt leave and he is nothing but an FO.

This is true. Question is what can you do about it. Answer in my opinion is nothing.

Why don’t we spend union resources on something that is being blatantly violated. Hotel points. No, I am not joking. Spencer is constantly violating this section of the contract. When I return to work on Monday, if the hotel does not give me points, I intend to check with the hotel committee to see if this has been agreed to by our people. If they have not, I will file a letter with the Chief Pilot followed up with a grievance if required.

maxjet
12-15-2017, 03:09 PM
Your CBA distinguishes who can and cannot check crew members, Being a check airman/management pilot does not give some magical authority to bypass the CBA. You keep repeating this but you are still wrong. If the union allowed management crew members to check in the past, It does not vacate contractual obligations by the company at a later time. If 1224 is going to litigate this against Kalitta, they (The union attorneys) are not going to lose. The attorneys are much better on the union side and will obliterate them in court. Your contract defines management crew members from crew members. Its really just a matter of time till the union runs the clock out on this. ALPA will hit the ground running on this matter if there is a transfer of representation. I know you have a fondness for Capt PB, But the contract will prevail in the end.

My emotions do not enter into this at all. If I am wrong I will be the first to post on here that I am. I expect the same from you when I am proven right. My issue is wasting what I am told are precious and few dollars on bull crap like this. There are way bigger and more important items to be delt with by the union. So far lots of talk by certain union members but no action

fr8ghtdawg
12-15-2017, 04:31 PM
My emotions do not enter into this at all. If I am wrong I will be the first to post on here that I am. I expect the same from you when I am proven right. My issue is wasting what I am told are precious and few dollars on bull crap like this. There are way bigger and more important items to be delt with by the union. So far lots of talk by certain union members but no action

WO said that they are accelerating the arbitration, Should be heard in January. This issue is a monster issue with 99% of the crew members. I understand that you are enamored with PB but understand that you are way out in left field on this one.

Code Red
12-15-2017, 05:01 PM
This is true. Question is what can you do about it. Answer in my opinion is nothing.

Why don’t we spend union resources on something that is being blatantly violated. Hotel points. No, I am not joking. Spencer is constantly violating this section of the contract. When I return to work on Monday, if the hotel does not give me points, I intend to check with the hotel committee to see if this has been agreed to by our people. If they have not, I will file a letter with the Chief Pilot followed up with a grievance if required.
I don’t need to do anything. The union is handling it.

HercDriver130
12-16-2017, 11:19 AM
This is true. Question is what can you do about it. Answer in my opinion is nothing.

Why don’t we spend union resources on something that is being blatantly violated. Hotel points. No, I am not joking. Spencer is constantly violating this section of the contract. When I return to work on Monday, if the hotel does not give me points, I intend to check with the hotel committee to see if this has been agreed to by our people. If they have not, I will file a letter with the Chief Pilot followed up with a grievance if required.

If you dont think this is amongst other things a direct violation of the contract then you just dont get it. Seniority is the cornerstone of our contracts.. and this is a direct assault on that... if you dont see that.... you should look again. YES, this grievance is being fast tracked hopefully in the next 90 days. This will be fought until we prevail or there is no other avenue.

POINTS... give it a rest fellas while they should be avail... they aren't guaranteed. Feel free to file grievances if you like there is some traction there how much remains to be seen ... but there is some there. Breakfast.. not so much.

maxjet
12-16-2017, 02:42 PM
If you dont think this is amongst other things a direct violation of the contract then you just dont get it. Seniority is the cornerstone of our contracts.. and this is a direct assault on that... if you dont see that.... you should look again. YES, this grievance is being fast tracked hopefully in the next 90 days. This will be fought until we prevail or there is no other avenue.

POINTS... give it a rest fellas while they should be avail... they aren't guaranteed. Feel free to file grievances if you like there is some traction there how much remains to be seen ... but there is some there. Breakfast.. not so much.


There is a section in the contract that very clearly outlines the issue of hotel points. As I have been trying to point out for a time on these threads, this is an issue that needs addressed. I will be contacting the Hotel committee upon checking into my Hotel on Monday as I have been told that there are no points there. If the contract has not been followed I will then address this with the CP. After no resolution is reach I will be filing a grievance.

Regarding PB. My opinion is different than yours. I don't call you stupid or tell you TO GET IT, just because I don't agree with your opinion. My opinion comes from my years interpreting contract language. I hope I am wrong and if I am wrong I will be the first to print it.

fr8ghtdawg
12-16-2017, 04:20 PM
Regarding PB. My opinion is different than yours. I don't call you stupid or tell you TO GET IT, just because I don't agree with your opinion. My opinion comes from my years interpreting contract language. I hope I am wrong and if I am wrong I will be the first to print it.

Nobody thinks your stupid, Quite the contrary. We all think you are smart enough to comprehend the language and understand what it says. We know you support PB and its really somewhat of a tragedy that he's in a terrible situation. The company really needs to step up and work something out. The union guys are reasonable and could probably work something out in grievance resolution. The company sticking it in every ones face by doing this is the draconian crap that they used to do in the past to give K4 such a horrible reputation. Hope they decide to go down the right path.

Colt45
12-17-2017, 06:35 AM
Nobody thinks your stupid, Quite the contrary. We all think you are smart enough to comprehend the language and understand what it says. We know you support PB and its really somewhat of a tragedy that he's in a terrible situation. The company really needs to step up and work something out. The union guys are reasonable and could probably work something out in grievance resolution. The company sticking it in every ones face by doing this is the draconian crap that they used to do in the past to give K4 such a horrible reputation. Hope they decide to go down the right path.

I don't have a problem with PB, my problem is with the CBA not being followed. With that said, could you please explain to me what exactly is tragic about PBs situation? It's not like someone put a gun to his head and said, "you're going to American or else". He went there and it sounds like it didn't work out and that isn't a tragedy, that's just life. A tragedy would be contracting HIV because a condom broke while you were in YIP for recurrent.

fr8ghtdawg
12-17-2017, 09:13 AM
I don't have a problem with PB, my problem is with the CBA not being followed. With that said, could you please explain to me what exactly is tragic about PBs situation? It's not like someone put a gun to his head and said, "you're going to American or else". He went there and it sounds like it didn't work out and that isn't a tragedy, that's just life. A tragedy would be contracting HIV because a condom broke while you were in YIP for recurrent.
I don't think he would have left American if he knew that he could only fly open time and that he's not allowed to check. After the arbitration he will essentially be able to to what a contract instructor can do, only they are paying him 5th year captain pay. I don't think that will fly with PS.

HercDriver130
12-18-2017, 04:57 AM
There is a section in the contract that very clearly outlines the issue of hotel points. As I have been trying to point out for a time on these threads, this is an issue that needs addressed. I will be contacting the Hotel committee upon checking into my Hotel on Monday as I have been told that there are no points there. If the contract has not been followed I will then address this with the CP. After no resolution is reach I will be filing a grievance.

Regarding PB. My opinion is different than yours. I don't call you stupid or tell you TO GET IT, just because I don't agree with your opinion. My opinion comes from my years interpreting contract language. I hope I am wrong and if I am wrong I will be the first to print it.

What the contract says about points is that the company will make "every reasonable effort" ... I guarantee you what you and I think that is.. .and what the company thinks that is.. are miles apart.

maxjet
12-18-2017, 06:46 AM
What the contract says about points is that the company will make "every reasonable effort" ... I guarantee you what you and I think that is.. .and what the company thinks that is.. are miles apart.

I have no illusions that my idea and SR’s idea is far apart. It says that the company must make a commercially reasonable effort. Have they? I say make the show us they have. Thus exposing SR to the light

Colt45
12-18-2017, 09:42 AM
I have no illusions that my idea and SR’s idea is far apart. It says that the company must make a commercially reasonable effort. Have they? I say make the show us they have. Thus exposing SR to the light

Maxjet, I couldn’t agree more. We need to have the Hotel Committee investigate this further. I know of several properties, specifically the CVG Hilton, where the hotel manager says we are not awarded points or stay credit due to the contract our airline has made with that specific property. Many times the difference in our “special” rate, which awards no points or stay credit, and an off the street (normal) rate is around $2. So both the company and the hotels are being greedy and trying to screw with us any way they can. Bottom line: this bull**** needs to change! Who do they think we are, Frontier Airlines? LOL

maxjet
12-18-2017, 12:50 PM
Maxjet, I couldn’t agree more. We need to have the Hotel Committee investigate this further. I know of several properties, specifically the CVG Hilton, where the hotel manager says we are not awarded points or stay credit due to the contract our airline has made with that specific property. Many times the difference in our “special” rate, which awards no points or stay credit, and an off the street (normal) rate is around $2. So both the company and the hotels are being greedy and trying to screw with us any way they can. Bottom line: this bull**** needs to change! Who do they think we are, Frontier Airlines? LOL

Waited 1 hour for van pickup. Arrived at the hotel and guess what? No reservation😩 Showed her my confirmation number and was told that that was not in my name. She gave me a room. I asked her to put my Priority Club number on it. She said, thanks for being a Spire member and would you like the welcome amenity points or a free drink and snack. Strange day....

HercDriver130
12-19-2017, 04:22 AM
Waited 1 hour for van pickup. Arrived at the hotel and guess what? No reservation😩 Showed her my confirmation number and was told that that was not in my name. She gave me a room. I asked her to put my Priority Club number on it. She said, thanks for being a Spire member and would you like the welcome amenity points or a free drink and snack. Strange day....

did you file a dev report? ... not the hotel kind... this kind of thing will continue until we report all the travel dev's

WhaleWrangler
12-20-2017, 03:47 AM
Nobody thinks your stupid, Quite the contrary. We all think you are smart enough to comprehend the language and understand what it says. We know you support PB and its really somewhat of a tragedy that he's in a terrible situation. The company really needs to step up and work something out. The union guys are reasonable and could probably work something out in grievance resolution. The company sticking it in every ones face by doing this is the draconian crap that they used to do in the past to give K4 such a horrible reputation. Hope they decide to go down the right path.

I think you will find that when this situation was coming about the Union sat down with the company to work matters out. However this seems to be a brain child of CE and others and basically the Union were told to pound sand, they were doing what they wanted.

Now it has escalated especially as there are moves / offers to try and get more unhappy soles from AA back here. I wish we all had the chance to try out new pastures and when it doesn't work we can waltz right back with a good pay. Thats not how it works and this has to be stopped dead in it's tracks right now.



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1