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View Full Version : Picketing


BeatNavy
12-11-2017, 06:05 AM
Canít wait to see you all there! Even you, southerner! Unless youíre too busy picking up RSAs.


Xtreme87
12-11-2017, 06:48 AM
Canít wait to see you all there! Even you, southerner! Unless youíre too busy picking up RSAs.

Ugh gonna be away unfortunately. Can I hire somebody to be my double?

Chicken Taco
12-11-2017, 06:59 AM
Unfortunately going to miss it, I will be at OSC.

Hmmmm......


pilotpayne
12-11-2017, 06:59 AM
Ugh gonna be away unfortunately. Can I hire somebody to be my double?

No 100% scope....lol

Xtreme87
12-11-2017, 07:08 AM
No 100% scope....lol


Haha

.........

BlueJetDork
12-11-2017, 07:51 AM
So this is "it's going well", "we are on glide slope", "better than expected", "we have tone", "we will have an agreement this summer (2016, 2017, 2018)".

hilltopflyer
12-11-2017, 08:03 AM
I'll be in Mexico then... wish I could be there.

atrdriver
12-11-2017, 08:07 AM
Canít wait to see you all there! Even you, southerner! Unless youíre too busy picking up RSAs.

If he can't follow simple instructions to wear an ALPA lanyard to show support, I doubt he will show up to support the pilot group in person. Who knows, maybe we will be in for a surprise. See you all there.

Xtreme87
12-11-2017, 12:13 PM
Woo JB ALPA ad on 1010 WINS, now every cab driver and 95 year old in NYC will know that WE MEAN BUSINESS. AM radio is the future!

CaptCoolHand
12-11-2017, 12:15 PM
Woo JB ALPA ad on 1010 WINS, now every cab driver and 95 year old in NYC will know that WE MEAN BUSINESS.

Maybe you should contact the MEC and SPSC and your LEC with your dashing plans and strategy.

TristarJS30
12-11-2017, 12:47 PM
Woo JB ALPA ad on 1010 WINS, now every cab driver and 95 year old in NYC will know that WE MEAN BUSINESS. AM radio is the future!

While I get your point, you misunderstand the importance of 1010 WINS to the NYC area.

Xtreme87
12-11-2017, 01:57 PM
While I get your point, you misunderstand the importance of 1010 WINS to the NYC area.

I understand the importance of it, Iím just not sure who else listens to 1010 wins besides the demographic I listed. I also understand that there probably are budgetary constraints that would limit using a more mainstream radio station. Just stating an opinion, Iím sure the reach on 1010 will be good enough for the value.

TonyC
12-11-2017, 02:25 PM
I understand the importance of it, Iím just not sure who else listens to 1010 wins besides the demographic I listed.





Which are you, a cab driver or a 95-year-old in NYC? ;)






.

pilotpayne
12-11-2017, 02:40 PM
Which are you, a cab driver or a 95-year-old in NYC? ;)






.



Canít he be both

pilotpayne
12-11-2017, 02:47 PM
I understand the importance of it, Iím just not sure who else listens to 1010 wins besides the demographic I listed. I also understand that there probably are budgetary constraints that would limit using a more mainstream radio station. Just stating an opinion, Iím sure the reach on 1010 will be good enough for the value.

I think itís more of a demonstration that we will use every media platform available. Just like the JetBlue pilots twitter commenting on the JetBlue twitter. To me itís just a demonstration of what we can do. I also think this is timmed to put pressure on the company. I think they have a meeting this week or so to discuss ďlanguageĒ and there are the two sessions in January and now an informational picketing session waiting at the end. Will it work I donít know but I like how they are doing this. We can argue all day about how it should have been done or how much time was wasted or whatever but now itís about showing up. See you guys there.

CaptCoolHand
12-11-2017, 02:59 PM
I think itís more of a demonstration that we will use every media platform available. Just like the JetBlue pilots twitter commenting on the JetBlue twitter. To me itís just a demonstration of what we can do. I also think this is timmed to put pressure on the company. I think they have a meeting this week or so to discuss ďlanguageĒ and there are the two sessions in January and now an informational picketing session waiting at the end. Will it work I donít know but I like how they are doing this. We can argue all day about how it should have been done or how much time was wasted or whatever but now itís about showing up. See you guys there.

https://maddyuap.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/pulp_fiction-big-brain-brett-11.jpg

i really need to buy you a beer next time in bos...

CaptCoolHand
12-11-2017, 03:01 PM
I understand the importance of it, I’m just not sure who else listens to 1010 wins besides the demographic I listed. I also understand that there probably are budgetary constraints that would limit using a more mainstream radio station. Just stating an opinion, I’m sure the reach on 1010 will be good enough for the value.

have you met the MEC
https://media.giphy.com/media/VPXKw1SP1Iz4I/giphy-facebook_s.jpg

i'm gonna get banned for this:eek:

just bustin your sack.

CaptCoolHand
12-11-2017, 03:03 PM
puttin my bournboun down and going to bed now.

citxls
12-11-2017, 04:56 PM
Woo JB ALPA ad on 1010 WINS, now every cab driver and 95 year old in NYC will know that WE MEAN BUSINESS. AM radio is the future!

Easy there Debbie downer. WINS is in fact a very prominent radio station in the LI/NYC area.

Softpayman
12-11-2017, 05:20 PM
Easy there Debbie downer. WINS is in fact a very prominent radio station in the LI/NYC area.

I think he'd prefer pop-up ads on Tinder, probably more the target audience he's thinking of.

pilotpayne
12-11-2017, 06:18 PM
https://maddyuap.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/pulp_fiction-big-brain-brett-11.jpg

i really need to buy you a beer next time in bos...

Iím not sure how to take that and i know things donít turn out well for Brett....:D

But yes yes you do.

NYC7922
12-11-2017, 08:20 PM
Woo JB ALPA ad on 1010 WINS, now every cab driver and 95 year old in NYC will know that WE MEAN BUSINESS. AM radio is the future!

Clearly not a NYer...

dogpilot
12-11-2017, 09:34 PM
Iím not sure how to take that and i know things donít turn out well for Brett....:D

But yes yes you do.
Itís been a spell, it Iím relatively certain the brain was on brad.

slimothy
12-12-2017, 03:27 AM
Itís been a spell, it Iím relatively certain the brain was on brad.

Thatís what I thought, but Iíve seen ďBrettĒ used enough to make me question myself, since the interwebs is never wrong.

CaptCoolHand
12-12-2017, 04:58 AM
Thatís what I thought, but Iíve seen ďBrettĒ used enough to make me question myself, since the interwebs is never wrong.

Itís brad... lol. But I was in no condition to correct or question anything last night.

BunkerF16
12-12-2017, 05:02 AM
Itís brad... lol. But I was in no condition to correct or question anything last night.


Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!

CaptCoolHand
12-12-2017, 07:35 AM
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!

Hahahahaha! College

Bluedriver
12-12-2017, 09:32 AM
I don't understand why we would picket? Or buy billboards? Or buy radio adds? *Southerner* said recently that our union was satisfied with the progress being made at the table.

Sarcasm switched off.

Southerner
12-12-2017, 10:32 AM
I don't understand why we would picket? Or buy billboards? Or buy radio adds? *Southerner* said recently that our union was satisfied with the progress being made at the table.



Sarcasm switched off.



Dude. You ignore me, Iíll ignore you, deal?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bluedriver
12-12-2017, 01:01 PM
Dude. You ignore me, Iíll ignore you, deal?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No deal if you continue to say stupid feces.

Southerner
12-12-2017, 04:49 PM
No deal if you continue to say stupid feces.



No worries there. You have the market cornered on ďstupid.Ē


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bluedriver
12-12-2017, 04:55 PM
No worries there. You have the market cornered on ďstupid.Ē


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good one. Like when you said the Union was satisfied with the negotiations progress just a few weeks ago?

Southerner
12-12-2017, 05:03 PM
Good one. Like when you said the Union was satisfied with the negotiations progress just a few weeks ago?



You just donít understand the game. Itís all show-business man.
Is this your first airline?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

atrdriver
12-12-2017, 05:12 PM
You just donít understand the game. Itís all show-business man.
Is this your first airline?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would you say that following MEC instructions to wear your lanyard to show solidarity and support for an industry standard CBA is "show business"? And regardless of whether it is or not, would you propose a reason someone would blatantly disregard their MEC's request and elect not to show support for their fellow pilots by not donning an ALPA lanyard?

hyperboy
12-12-2017, 05:16 PM
No deal if you continue to say stupid feces.


Internet bullying...so tough dude.......

Bluedriver
12-12-2017, 05:30 PM
Internet bullying...so tough dude.......

1. I'm pretty "tough", actually.

2. What I said was not "tough" or bullying. I simply said no deal. Nothing more, nothing less.

3. Do you agree with Southerner that our union is satisfied with the progress at the negotiating table?

Bluedriver
12-12-2017, 05:31 PM
You just donít understand the game. Itís all show-business man.
Is this your first airline?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1. NOT my first airline.

2. Losing 3-4k a month is not a game to me or my union volunteers.

3. You are still saying stupid feces.

Cloud5urfer
12-12-2017, 09:55 PM
There's a good chance we TA in January.

BeatNavy
12-12-2017, 10:11 PM
There's a good chance we TA in January.

Source? Filler

Beechnut
12-13-2017, 01:12 AM
Source? Filler

No one. Heís talking out his arse.

CaptCoolHand
12-13-2017, 01:59 AM
There's a good chance we TA in January.
Where do you get this? If it was th phone call
Last night no where was th t ever implied.
Youíre making things up.

hilltopflyer
12-13-2017, 02:00 AM
I mean he's got a 8% chance of being right. Didn't say what year.

Bluedriver
12-13-2017, 04:44 AM
There's a good chance we TA in January.

Holly internet troll bomb Batman!

CaptCoolHand
12-13-2017, 05:13 AM
Holly internet troll bomb Batman!

https://muslimmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/shutterstock_98899706.png

Southerner
12-13-2017, 05:14 AM
https://muslimmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/shutterstock_98899706.png



Thatís an awesome picture. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hyperboy
12-13-2017, 05:25 AM
1. I'm pretty "tough", actually.

2. What I said was not "tough" or bullying. I simply said no deal. Nothing more, nothing less.

3. Do you agree with Southerner that our union is satisfied with the progress at the negotiating table?

I go to my union meetings (BOS last night), I have been to both JFK and BOS Rallys, DCA family awareness event, on an ALPA committee, talking/Flying with my with my REPS. I am dialed in!

What I do know is this....Those on this board could do way more to help us get a contract and they are not.......This frustrates me.

Bluedriver
12-13-2017, 05:39 AM
I go to my union meetings (BOS last night), I have been to both JFK and BOS Rallys, DCA family awareness event, on an ALPA committee, talking/Flying with my with my REPS. I am dialed in!

What I do know is this....Those on this board could do way more to help us get a contract and they are not.......This frustrates me.

You said lots of words. You didn't say ANY words that had anything to do with my post that you quoted.

You also didn't answer my question.

Cujo665
12-13-2017, 05:40 AM
I go to my union meetings (BOS last night), I have been to both JFK and BOS Rallys, DCA family awareness event, on an ALPA committee, talking/Flying with my with my REPS. I am dialed in!

What I do know is this....Those on this board could do way more to help us get a contract and they are not.......This frustrates me.

I live in BOS and although I'm with another airline, I'd show up and walk the line with you guys. I don't visit these threads often, so I didn't even know. Are there any events left in BOS?

PM the info if able

Bluedriver
12-13-2017, 05:41 AM
https://muslimmatters.org/wp-content/uploads/shutterstock_98899706.png

Perfect. He said the same thing on BP yet hasn't answered why he would say such a thing!

I think he's punk'n us! I call SHENANIGANS!

PasserOGas
12-13-2017, 06:42 AM
I go to my union meetings (BOS last night), I have been to both JFK and BOS Rallys, DCA family awareness event, on an ALPA committee, talking/Flying with my with my REPS. I am dialed in!

What I do know is this....Those on this board could do way more to help us get a contract and they are not.......This frustrates me.

Kinda like when people pump out blue kool aid and help the company recruit. Frustrating.

#keepsgettingbetter

BlueJetDork
12-13-2017, 07:43 AM
There's a good chance we TA in January.Same chance as me enjoying 15 minutes of silence from Salma Hayek.

Std Deviation
12-13-2017, 12:27 PM
Honest question...what are we “informing” the general public about (specifically) in our “plight.” Because I’m Vinnie Bagadonuts driving my sanitation truck for 75K a year and with a little research I find out the average CA at Jetblue makes....say 220-250K a year but is clamoring about being underpaid because his high net worth colleagues at brand X make an extra 30K a year. Am I inaccurate in this perception (given my masters degree in psychology)?

I grew up in the UAW. There’s a little more sympathy if you’re talking autoworkers vs white collar professionals in the top 3-5% of wage earners. Or, white collar school teachers making 40K.

So what’s the strategy then? Greedy JetBlue is mean to the pilots by not giving them a bigger piece of the profits?

Hey, give me more money but it’s really tough for the general population to sympathize with my desire for more cash. So what’s the play with the ads then?

MovinUp
12-13-2017, 01:41 PM
Honest question...what are we ďinformingĒ the general public about (specifically) in our ďplight.Ē Because Iím Vinnie Bagadonuts driving my sanitation truck for 75K a year and with a little research I find out the average CA at Jetblue makes....say 220-250K a year but is clamoring about being underpaid because his high net worth colleagues at brand X make an extra 30K a year. Am I inaccurate in this perception (given my masters degree in psychology)?

I grew up in the UAW. Thereís a little more sympathy if youíre talking autoworkers vs white collar professionals in the top 3-5% of wage earners. Or, white collar school teachers making 40K.

So whatís the strategy then? Greedy JetBlue is mean to the pilots by not giving them a bigger piece of the profits?

Hey, give me more money but itís really tough for the general population to sympathize with my desire for more cash. So whatís the play with the ads then?

So...only because I know and am great friends with a number of DSNY gents - they do very well for themselves, are union and understand the same very basic premise that they serve a vital role in employing their employers resources that provides a service to over 8.5 million customers annually. Mind you, they cover their respective areas multiple times a week while we at JetBlue aid in the transport of nearly 14 million passengers in just the twelve months ahead of Spring of 2017.

Point is Vinnie Bagadonuts is doing very well for himself as a DSNY union represented employee and makes a killing more than 75k a year if they want to after they gain just one hint of seniority in their respective garages. Their premium pay and holiday pay blow a number of airlinesí compensation standards for flight ops employees quite easily out of the water. Including the pennies we at JetBlue are currently provided.

Otherwise, the general population doesnít really care why we are picketing. The optics alone are powerful enough. If you donít want to take part in acquiring what those who have came before me and those who will come after me deserve as professionals then thatís your prerogative but I hope you wonít attempt to still seek an answer of what good does picketing do in the eyes of the general population. Consider, perhaps for just a mere moment, that they are not the primary targeted audience. Good luck and be safe! In Unity...

Bluedriver
12-13-2017, 01:43 PM
So...only because I know and am great friends with a number of DSNY gents - they do very well for themselves, are union and understand the same very basic premise that they serve a vital role in employing their employers resources that provides a service to over 8.5 million customers annually. Mind you, they cover their respective areas multiple times a week while we at JetBlue aid in the transport of nearly 14 million passengers in just the twelve months ahead of Spring of 2017.

Point is Vinnie Bagadonuts is doing very well for himself as a DSNY union represented employee and makes a killing more than 75k a year if they want to after they gain just one hint of seniority in their respective garages. Their premium pay and holiday pay blow a number of airlinesí compensation standards for flight ops employees quite easily out of the water. Including the pennies we at JetBlue are currently provided.

Otherwise, the general population doesnít really care why we are picketing. The optics alone are powerful enough. If you donít want to take part in acquiring what those who have came before me and those who will come after me deserve as professionals then thatís your prerogative but I hope you wonít attempt to still seek an answer of what good does picketing do in the eyes of the general population. Consider, perhaps for just a mere moment, that they are not the primary targeted audience. Good luck and be safe! In Unity...

Well said.

Cloud5urfer
12-13-2017, 02:34 PM
Where do you get this? If it was th phone call
Last night no where was th t ever implied.
Youíre making things up.

Sounded like we're pretty damn close to me.

rvr1800
12-13-2017, 04:27 PM
So...only because I know and am great friends with a number of DSNY gents - they do very well for themselves, are union and understand the same very basic premise that they serve a vital role in employing their employers resources that provides a service to over 8.5 million customers annually. Mind you, they cover their respective areas multiple times a week while we at JetBlue aid in the transport of nearly 14 million passengers in just the twelve months ahead of Spring of 2017.

Point is Vinnie Bagadonuts is doing very well for himself as a DSNY union represented employee and makes a killing more than 75k a year if they want to after they gain just one hint of seniority in their respective garages. Their premium pay and holiday pay blow a number of airlinesí compensation standards for flight ops employees quite easily out of the water. Including the pennies we at JetBlue are currently provided.

Otherwise, the general population doesnít really care why we are picketing. The optics alone are powerful enough. If you donít want to take part in acquiring what those who have came before me and those who will come after me deserve as professionals then thatís your prerogative but I hope you wonít attempt to still seek an answer of what good does picketing do in the eyes of the general population. Consider, perhaps for just a mere moment, that they are not the primary targeted audience. Good luck and be safe! In Unity...

https://media.giphy.com/media/wrzf9P70YWLJK/giphy.gif

Alterbridge
12-13-2017, 04:32 PM
Sounded like we're pretty damn close to me.

Yes. To you. Your interpretation. It's incorrect. The number of open items in a negotiation is not proportional to the time that it takes to close those items.

Preeeeeeeeetty sure that a union's leadership doesn't want you or anyone else posting stuff on message boards for the company to see and interpret for their own use. Recommend that you don't do it anymore.

hyperboy
12-13-2017, 04:56 PM
Yes. To you. Your interpretation. It's incorrect. The number of open items in a negotiation is not proportional to the time that it takes to close those items.

Preeeeeeeeetty sure that a union's leadership doesn't want you or anyone else posting stuff on message boards for the company to see and interpret for their own use. Recommend that you don't do it anymore.

I am not saying you are right or wrong but you are inaccurate with your statements. Please call a union rep, talk to a P2P from last nights call or go to a meeting. 21 out of 31.

Bluedriver
12-13-2017, 06:12 PM
I am not saying you are right or wrong but you are inaccurate with your statements. Please call a union rep, talk to a P2P from last nights call or go to a meeting. 21 out of 31.

What does to 21 out of 31 mean to you? What are you trying to imply?

And strangely, your posted response seems nonsensical relative to the post you quote, again.

atrdriver
12-13-2017, 06:19 PM
Yes. To you. Your interpretation. It's incorrect. The number of open items in a negotiation is not proportional to the time that it takes to close those items.

Preeeeeeeeetty sure that a union's leadership doesn't want you or anyone else posting stuff on message boards for the company to see and interpret for their own use. Recommend that you don't do it anymore.

You are 100% irrefutably correct.

Hyperboy, incorrect.

CaptCoolHand
12-14-2017, 04:40 AM
Sounded like we're pretty damn close to me.

I hope youre right.

But, that's not what was said. If you were on the call then you know you were told specific things. One of those was to NOT inflect your own opinion on what is going on. If you are a p2p guy then you are going a disservice to your union.

CaptCoolHand
12-14-2017, 04:43 AM
I am not saying you are right or wrong but you are inaccurate with your statements. Please call a union rep, talk to a P2P from last nights call or go to a meeting. 21 out of 31.

I was on the call. 21-31 means nothing. We've been 21-31 for about a year.

Did you guys even listen to Pat or Jeff?

Xtreme87
12-14-2017, 04:50 AM
Didnít the union say that most of the open sections are almost done?

Bluedriver
12-14-2017, 05:02 AM
Didnít the union say that most of the open sections are almost done?

It doesn't matter! It's the same answer as the 21 of 31. As Cool said we've been essentially at 21 of 31 for almost a year. They can have 90% of language done on the last 10 sections and only be waiting on a plug-and-play final number on all remaining sections and it still doesn't mean we are close.

It's all about that remaining number (and language for rules). They can drag the negotiations out for years on just a few numbers!

It's not done until it's done and there is NO way to tell when that will happen based on open sections remaining or amount of words complete in the sections or stuff.

If the language AND the plug-and-play numbers aren't agreed to, there is NO way to make an accurate judgement of how long this will take.

rooinek
12-14-2017, 05:07 AM
If the language AND the plug-and-play numbers aren't agreed to, there is NO way to make an accurate judgement of how long this will take.

Where on the spectrum are the plug-and-play numbers? Slightly below the legacies?

hilltopflyer
12-14-2017, 05:09 AM
Where on the spectrum are the plug-and-play numbers? Slightly below the legacies?

Why would we take below market rate?

CaptCoolHand
12-14-2017, 05:39 AM
Where on the spectrum are the plug-and-play numbers? Slightly below the legacies?

If we knew... weíd have a vote.

And why would they be below? Same planes. Same routes.
Why not same pay?

BunkerF16
12-14-2017, 05:54 AM
If any of you guys who talk with MEC officers, or who are on the P2P committee and listened in on the last few calls, especially the last one, and don't have a feeling that we may be on the cusp of getting a AIP, then you believe what you WANT to believe, not what is actually going on. Some of you guys revel in your misery and hatred for this company and any positive momentum is counter-productive towards your agenda.

Does it mean we're going to have an agreement in the end of January? Of course not. But is it possible based on trends and momentum? Absolutely.

Bluedriver
12-14-2017, 06:04 AM
If any of you guys who talk with MEC officers, or who are on the P2P committee and listened in on the last few calls, especially the last one, and don't have a feeling that we may be on the cusp of getting a AIP, then you believe what you WANT to believe, not what is actually going on. Some of you guys revel in your misery and hatred for this company and any positive momentum is counter-productive towards your agenda.

Does it mean we're going to have an agreement in the end of January? Of course not. But is it possible based on trends and momentum? Absolutely.

You're wrong with your characterization of me and maybe others. You're wrong that myself and others don't WANT good news. We do, but have seen this game at other companies and have been let down too many times here at THIS company to get our hopes up BEFORE a deal is done. They do not want to truly pay market rate and many of us are skeptical that they will agree to the final plug-and-play numbers required to satisfy our NC.

Can you seriously not understand that exact position for some of us?

rvr1800
12-14-2017, 06:43 AM
FACTS, FEEDBACK, and UNITY. It’s right there on the card. No where does it say OPINIONS. I’m just as guilty as the next guy so I’m not pointing any fingers on here. But it was specifically requested on the last call to leave your opinions off the internet if you’re a P2P volunteer.

Fact: We actually have 20 of 31 sections TA’d not 21.
Fact: Two more mediated sessions in January
Fact: Picketing will take place on January 31st

The701Express
12-14-2017, 07:16 AM
FACTS, FEEDBACK, and UNITY. Itís right there on the card. No where does it say OPINIONS. Iím just as guilty as the next guy so Iím not pointing any fingers on here. But it was specifically requested on the last call to leave your opinions off the internet if youíre a P2P volunteer.

Fact: We actually have 20 of 31 sections TAíd not 21.
Fact: Two more mediated sessions in January
Fact: Picketing will take place on January 31st

Thank you, rvr.

BeatNavy
12-14-2017, 07:17 AM
Fact: the union announced a picket after the last negotiating session.
Fact: nothing has changed since then
Fact: the union has said we are transitioning to a labor dispute
Fact: we have mediated and nonmediated negotiations betweeen now and the planned picketing, so I guess maybe it’s possible in theory they can work out the difference in that time.
Fact: we don’t have a TA and aren’t any closer to a TA than we were a week ago.
Fact: differences exist between what we want and what management wants, otherwise there would be no more negotiations, no labor dispute, etc. When the company will decide to pay market rate isn’t up to us, it’s up to them, and they surely wouldn’t let that cat out of the bag. They are smarter/more disciplined than pilots with rumors and leaks.
Fact: management can afford to pay us market rate.

CaptCoolHand
12-14-2017, 07:17 AM
FACTS, FEEDBACK, and UNITY. Itís right there on the card. No where does it say OPINIONS. Iím just as guilty as the next guy so Iím not pointing any fingers on here. But it was specifically requested on the last call to leave your opinions off the internet if youíre a P2P volunteer.

Fact: We actually have 20 of 31 sections TAíd not 21.
Fact: Two more mediated sessions in January
Fact: Picketing will take place on January 31st

This guy gets it.

Bluedriver
12-14-2017, 07:31 AM
You guys are just being "negative".

More like intelligent and ACCURATE.

BunkerF16
12-14-2017, 08:03 AM
You're wrong with your characterization of me and maybe others. You're wrong that myself and others don't WANT good news. We do, but have seen this game at other companies and have been let down too many times here at THIS company to get our hopes up BEFORE a deal is done. They do not want to truly pay market rate and many of us are skeptical that they will agree to the final plug-and-play numbers required to satisfy our NC.

Can you seriously not understand that exact position for some of us?

Interesting you thought I was talking about you when I never quoted a single person.

Listen, this board has become unreadable with you and others spewing your crap on here.

I don't disagree with many of the facts put forth on this thread. But you and others choose not to do any type of deep dive on what's really going on.

"Oh--we only have 20-31 sections TAd, that means we're only 2/3 of the way there...expect a few more years of this!! Oh the humanity!!!"

The problem is, those and many "facts" are skewed and displayed in a way to support your (and others) position. How many subsections of these un-TAd sections are left? When we TA one of the sections, how many will fall in line right away because of a domino affect it will have. Many, if not most of the remaining sections will all get TAd at almost the exact same time because of how they're intertwined.

So if you and your buddies want to sit around in a circle jerk of negativity, have at it. I'll choose to look at not only the "facts", but trends that are going on as well, since this negotiation isn't stagnate, and don't exist in a vacuum.

Bluedriver
12-14-2017, 08:44 AM
It's clear you didn't really read the recent posts on the subject of sections remaining and how it has no bearing on how much time it takes from here. Or how the company could drag out the plug-and-play numbers for years if it wants to.

You are probably one who thought this would be done by this summer also (although probably won't admit it).

Your welcome to have your optimistic opinion. I know my union is so pleased with the pace of negotiations that they are publicly proclaiming that we are IN a labor dispute, buying newspaper adds, radio adds, billboards and just this week announced informational picketing. Sure sounds like they believe we are on the cusp of an agreement to me!

Go gulp your juice.

Bluedriver
12-14-2017, 08:52 AM
You're wrong with your characterization of me and maybe others. You're wrong that myself and others don't WANT good news. We do, but have seen this game at other companies and have been let down too many times here at THIS company to get our hopes up BEFORE a deal is done. They do not want to truly pay market rate and many of us are skeptical that they will agree to the final plug-and-play numbers required to satisfy our NC.

Can you seriously not understand that exact position for some of us?

And I still want to know which part of this post you don't agree with?

BunkerF16
12-14-2017, 10:01 AM
It's clear you didn't really read the recent posts on the subject of sections remaining and how it has no bearing on how much time it takes from here. Or how the company could drag out the plug-and-play numbers for years if it wants to.

You are probably one who thought this would be done by this summer also (although probably won't admit it).

Your welcome to have your optimistic opinion. I know my union is so pleased with the pace of negotiations that they are publicly proclaiming that we are IN a labor dispute, buying newspaper adds, radio adds, billboards and just this week announced informational picketing. Sure sounds like they believe we are on the cusp of an agreement to me!

Go gulp your juice.

I read everything. You have an agenda. You're perpetuating it on this site. I'm not going to dive in the gutter with you anymore.

I never said we'd be done this summer. I said I wouldn't be surprised if we we had a TA by the end of the year. Keep up the disinformation campaign though, BD. It's really the only thing you're good at.

I'm no blue-juicer. Of course that's what negative people like you say whenever we don't join your circle jerk. You have enough guys to grab on to, you'll be fine.

I'm done with you. Big waste of time arguing with someone self-involved in their own echo chamber. Enjoy your misery and self pity.

Bluedriver
12-14-2017, 10:25 AM
I read everything. You have an agenda. You're perpetuating it on this site. I'm not going to dive in the gutter with you anymore.

I never said we'd be done this summer. I said I wouldn't be surprised if we we had a TA by the end of the year. Keep up the disinformation campaign though, BD. It's really the only thing you're good at.

I'm no blue-juicer. Of course that's what negative people like you say whenever we don't join your circle jerk. You have enough guys to grab on to, you'll be fine.

I'm done with you. Big waste of time arguing with someone self-involved in their own echo chamber. Enjoy your misery and self pity.

Wrong again. I have said nothing untrue.

Our union is currently and recently been buying newspaper adds, radio adds, billboards and just this week announced picketing. Those actions say more than your "opinions".

That's not disinformation, them's called facts.

Southerner
12-14-2017, 11:54 AM
Wrong again. I have said nothing untrue.



Our union is currently and recently been buying newspaper adds, radio adds, billboards and just this week announced picketing. Those actions say more than your "opinions".



That's not disinformation, them's called facts.



So tell me, who do you think the target audience is for all of that? I submit that YOU are the target audience, and youíre eating it up. Youíre so bitter and your judgement is so clouded by that bitterness that you canít see what is really going on.

Bluedriver
12-14-2017, 12:22 PM
So tell me, who do you think the target audience is for all of that? I submit that YOU are the target audience, and youíre eating it up. Youíre so bitter and your judgement is so clouded by that bitterness that you canít see what is really going on.

So, OUR Union is spending huge sums of money to feed my bitterness all the while they actually secretly believe negotiations are going splendidly behind the scenes?

Southerner
12-14-2017, 12:35 PM
So, OUR Union is spending huge sums of money to feed my bitterness all the while they actually secretly believe negotiations are going splendidly behind the scenes?


The whole world is show business man. When you realize that, youíll probably lose a lot of that bitterness that you carry around.



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Bluedriver
12-14-2017, 12:42 PM
The whole world is show business man. When you realize that, youíll probably lose a lot of that bitterness that you carry around.



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My bitterness will end when I am no longer being paid 3-4k less per month than my peers and I see a positive plan for the future of my airline.

PasserOGas
12-14-2017, 12:45 PM
Interesting you thought I was talking about you when I never quoted a single person.

Listen, this board has become unreadable with you and others spewing your crap on here.

I don't disagree with many of the facts put forth on this thread. But you and others choose not to do any type of deep dive on what's really going on.

"Oh--we only have 20-31 sections TAd, that means we're only 2/3 of the way there...expect a few more years of this!! Oh the humanity!!!"

The problem is, those and many "facts" are skewed and displayed in a way to support your (and others) position. How many subsections of these un-TAd sections are left? When we TA one of the sections, how many will fall in line right away because of a domino affect it will have. Many, if not most of the remaining sections will all get TAd at almost the exact same time because of how they're intertwined.

So if you and your buddies want to sit around in a circle jerk of negativity, have at it. I'll choose to look at not only the "facts", but trends that are going on as well, since this negotiation isn't stagnate, and don't exist in a vacuum.

Dude, a TA isnt a CBA and I fully expect to vote the first one down. We aren't even close to a contract.

Bluedriver
12-14-2017, 12:46 PM
Also Southerner, you should call P.W. and let him know he doesn't need to spend all that money because you know the company is now willing to pay us the same as the big 4.

When I spoke to him a few weeks ago he certainly didn't know that.

Southerner
12-14-2017, 12:57 PM
Dude, a TA isnt a CBA and I fully expect to vote the first one down. We aren't even close to a contract.


Evaluate the TA on its merits, and vote accordingly. Voting the first one down ďjust ĎcuzĒ is stupid.


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Southerner
12-14-2017, 01:01 PM
Also Southerner, you should call P.W. and let him know he doesn't need to spend all that money because you know the company is now willing to pay us the same as the big 4.



When I spoke to him a few weeks ago he certainly didn't know that.


The money is for you, and your ilk, to make you feel all riled up and powerful. To make you feel like ALPA is giving them what for, and all that.

The company will do whatever the company will do, regardless of the billboards and the ads. The motivation to get a contract is independent of anything we do as pilots, in the current environment. Wall Street wants us to have a contract, and thatís why the company is moving forward.

We are in a strong position in the current climate. The strongest we have been in for a long long time. I really donít see much to be bitter about. Itís a good time to be a pilot.



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Bluedriver
12-14-2017, 01:26 PM
Can you demonstrate ANYTHING to back up your claim that Wall Street wants a contract?

I disagree the company doesn't care if we picket or advertise. They lost their feces over a bag handle tag.

And while they may have moved forward, there is no evidence to say they will go over the goal line anytime soon. Suggesting they will is a pure guess.

Southerner
12-14-2017, 01:33 PM
Can you demonstrate ANYTHING to back up your claim that Wall Street wants a contract?



I disagree the company doesn't care if we picket or advertise. They lost their feces over a bag handle tag.



And while they may have moved forward, there is no evidence to say they will go over the goal line anytime soon. Suggesting they will is a pure guess.



Until JetBlue knows their cost structure, JetBlue canít plan long-term. And the investors know this. Theyíve said as much in the calls when they ask questions. Thatís why they keep asking what the status of the CBA is. Why would you invest in a company that has a big ole question mark where labor costs are concerned?


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PasserOGas
12-14-2017, 02:15 PM
Until JetBlue knows their cost structure, JetBlue canít plan long-term. And the investors know this. Theyíve said as much in the calls when they ask questions. Thatís why they keep asking what the status of the CBA is. Why would you invest in a company that has a big ole question mark where labor costs are concerned?


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I actually sort of agree with southerner here. This coupled with the inevitable inability to staff are two powerful cards we hold. If we vote yes for a "good enough for jetblue" TA we may never have this much leverage again.

Ironically our $h1t pay is one of our strongest bargaining chips.

Southerner
12-14-2017, 02:23 PM
I actually sort of agree with southerner here. This coupled with the inevitable inability to staff are two powerful cards we hold. If we vote yes for a "good enough for jetblue" TA we may never have this much leverage again.



Ironically our $h1t pay is one of our strongest bargaining chips.



Thatís funny. And true. Lol


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BunkerF16
12-14-2017, 03:22 PM
Dude, a TA isnt a CBA and I fully expect to vote the first one down. We aren't even close to a contract.p

So youíve already made the decision that youíre going to vote down a TA without even taking the time to read or understand whatís in it? Got it. You are insulting our negotiators and those working hard to bring you a market rate contract. You really have no idea what youíre talking about. You must a charter member in BlueDriverís club.

Cloud5urfer
12-14-2017, 04:08 PM
I sure started a sh!t sandwich didn't I? I'm going to start including a disclaimer on all my posts.

This forum is for opinions. If you want official communications check your emails or ALPA.org. With that said, I think there's a good chance we finish up negotiations before the end of January. Why? Because as some have said JB has incentive to get this finished and removing the looming unknown costs off their books. We've also got 2 rounds of negotiations with the mediator in January. If they (the company) don't come to the table with market rate proposals as we've demanded after those two sessions, sh!t will be hitting the fan. Ball is in the company's court we've already made it clear where this will head if they don't play ball. We're there. Pressure is increasing and our picketing date is the deadline.




Disclaimer: The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of ALPA, not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary.

Combatcraig
12-14-2017, 04:36 PM
I actually sort of agree with southerner here. This coupled with the inevitable inability to staff are two powerful cards we hold. If we vote yes for a "good enough for jetblue" TA we may never have this much leverage again.

Ironically our $h1t pay is one of our strongest bargaining chips.

Tell that to Spirit and Frontier Pilots!...

PasserOGas
12-14-2017, 07:01 PM
Tell that to Spirit and Frontier Pilots!...

Spirit will get a good contract before we do. They are already having trouble staffing (we arent, yet).

I look at republic as the model. Worst paid, no contract for 8 years, then they start cancelling flying for staffing and bam! Management found a bunch of money they said they didn't have to pay the pilots.

BunkerF16
12-14-2017, 07:38 PM
Spirit will get a good contract before we do. They are already having trouble staffing (we arent, yet).


I'll take that bet.

Southerner
12-14-2017, 07:40 PM
I'll take that bet.



Me too.


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Cloud5urfer
12-14-2017, 07:59 PM
Spirit will get a good contract before we do. They are already having trouble staffing (we arent, yet).

I look at republic as the model. Worst paid, no contract for 8 years, then they start cancelling flying for staffing and bam! Management found a bunch of money they said they didn't have to pay the pilots.

Define a "good contact" and you may have a bet. How much money you feel like losing?


Disclaimer: The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those of ALPA, not necessarily mine, and probably not necessary.

Bluedriver
12-15-2017, 03:23 AM
Until JetBlue knows their cost structure, JetBlue canít plan long-term. And the investors know this. Theyíve said as much in the calls when they ask questions. Thatís why they keep asking what the status of the CBA is. Why would you invest in a company that has a big ole question mark where labor costs are concerned?


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Any one of those analysts can plug into their model big 4 pilot costs.

They are asking to try and determine WHEN they need to include those higher costs primarily.

Bluedriver
12-15-2017, 03:27 AM
p

So youíve already made the decision that youíre going to vote down a TA without even taking the time to read or understand whatís in it? Got it. You are insulting our negotiators and those working hard to bring you a market rate contract. You really have no idea what youíre talking about. You must a charter member in BlueDriverís club.

Why? I have no intention of voting"no" just because and have NEVER said I would.

Just goes to further show that your opinions and judgement are worthless.

You must be a founding member of Southerner's club.

pilotpayne
12-15-2017, 05:44 AM
Not it wonít ,yes it will, not it wonít, yes it will.


Why donít you guys go on the record and pick a date that you think it will be done by. Bluedriver I think is somewhere around a few years from now? (Not attacking) and bunker seems to be sometime this summer. Hey I was wrong by saying this year(yes I need to write a check).

In a way you guys are all right. Yes negotiations are not going fast enough for the union hence the pressure but progress is being made. Just because things are not TAd does not mean that we are stuck. These are the big items and tend to all fall into place at the same time. There isnít going to be a TA on pay without a TA on work rules and no TA on pay means no TA on retirement so these last sections are all connected. (Pretty sure when I went to a meeting our NC team said as much)
With that said obviously this needs to be over for all of us. This is where we enter the show business part. If the union was so annoyed at how slow we are going why wait till Jan 31? Itís all optics and pressure and playing the game with the arbitrator. We have 2 sessions in Jan because he thought we were making good progress ( not the same story at Spirit and Frontier) So the union must think there is progress to be made during this or why not start walking circles now?
I think with everything here we like absolutes. But much of the answers are in a grayish area. You can have progresss but not fast enough, you can be in a ďsoftĒ labor dispute and so on. So itís each side (just using for reference bluedriver vs bunker) pointing to the extremes of their arguments when really you are both right....or o could be wrong:D

BunkerF16
12-15-2017, 06:16 AM
Why? I have no intention of voting"no" just because and have NEVER said I would.

Just goes to further show that your opinions and judgement are worthless.

You must be a founding member of Southerner's club.

I wasn't talking to you, BD.

Jesus Christ, learn to read, comprehend, or just stop typing.

It's always better to S TFU as opposed to what you're doing which is removing all doubt as to just what a big no-nothing blowhard you really are.

slimothy
12-15-2017, 06:29 AM
Not it wonít ,yes it will, not it wonít, yes it will.


Why donít you guys go on the record and pick a date that you think it will be done by. Bluedriver I think is somewhere around a few years from now? (Not attacking) and bunker seems to be sometime this summer. Hey I was wrong by saying this year(yes I need to write a check).

In a way you guys are all right. Yes negotiations are not going fast enough for the union hence the pressure but progress is being made. Just because things are not TAd does not mean that we are stuck. These are the big items and tend to all fall into place at the same time. There isnít going to be a TA on pay without a TA on work rules and no TA on pay means no TA on retirement so these last sections are all connected. (Pretty sure when I went to a meeting our NC team said as much)
With that said obviously this needs to be over for all of us. This is where we enter the show business part. If the union was so annoyed at how slow we are going why wait till Jan 31? Itís all optics and pressure and playing the game with the arbitrator. We have 2 sessions in Jan because he thought we were making good progress ( not the same story at Spirit and Frontier) So the union must think there is progress to be made during this or why not start walking circles now?
I think with everything here we like absolutes. But much of the answers are in a grayish area. You can have progresss but not fast enough, you can be in a ďsoftĒ labor dispute and so on. So itís each side (just using for reference bluedriver vs bunker) pointing to the extremes of their arguments when really you are both right....or o could be wrong:D

I thought this was a well balanced, well thought out analysis, until you said ďarbitratorĒ instead of ďmediatorĒ showing what a brain dead juicer you are.

Southerner
12-15-2017, 06:32 AM
I wasn't talking to you, BD.

Jesus Christ, learn to read, comprehend, or just stop typing.

It's always better to S TFU as opposed to what you're doing which is removing all doubt as to just what a big no-nothing blowhard you really are.



Wasting your breath man.


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pilotpayne
12-15-2017, 06:48 AM
I thought this was a well balanced, well thought out analysis, until you said ďarbitratorĒ instead of ďmediatorĒ showing what a brain dead juicer you are.

Well I is sorry let me fix that.
Iíll assume the rest was sarcasm?

pilotpayne
12-15-2017, 06:50 AM
Not it wonít ,yes it will, not it wonít, yes it will.


Why donít you guys go on the record and pick a date that you think it will be done by. Bluedriver I think is somewhere around a few years from now? (Not attacking) and bunker seems to be sometime this summer. Hey I was wrong by saying this year(yes I need to write a check).

In a way you guys are all right. Yes negotiations are not going fast enough for the union hence the pressure but progress is being made. Just because things are not TAd does not mean that we are stuck. These are the big items and tend to all fall into place at the same time. There isnít going to be a TA on pay without a TA on work rules and no TA on pay means no TA on retirement so these last sections are all connected. (Pretty sure when I went to a meeting our NC team said as much)
With that said obviously this needs to be over for all of us. This is where we enter the show business part. If the union was so annoyed at how slow we are going why wait till Jan 31? Itís all optics and pressure and playing the game with the arbitrator. We have 2 sessions in Jan because he thought we were making good progress ( not the same story at Spirit and Frontier) So the union must think there is progress to be made during this or why not start walking circles now?
I think with everything here we like absolutes. But much of the answers are in a grayish area. You can have progresss but not fast enough, you can be in a ďsoftĒ labor dispute and so on. So itís each side (just using for reference bluedriver vs bunker) pointing to the extremes of their arguments when really you are both right....or o could be wrong:D


Sorry ....strike arbitrator and replace with mediator.

slimothy
12-15-2017, 07:15 AM
Well I is sorry let me fix that.
Iíll assume the rest was sarcasm?

The sarcasm was the last part.

pilotpayne
12-15-2017, 07:29 AM
The sarcasm was the last part.

Figured but you never know on here.
You need one of those emoji sarcasm faces :)

PasserOGas
12-15-2017, 07:33 AM
I'll take that bet.

Notice I said good contract. We may get something before them, but a lot of guys here seem to think "We will never get paid like brand x." That defeatism is going to keep us down I think.

BunkerF16
12-15-2017, 07:45 AM
Notice I said good contract. We may get something before them, but a lot of guys here seem to think "We will never get paid like brand x." That defeatism is going to keep us down I think.

You wont get a half-a$$ed contract to vote on. If we were, it would have already happened. Don't underestimate what this pilot group is expecting (re: multiple surveys), or the negotiators and MEC who know what this pilot group deserves.

slimothy
12-15-2017, 07:49 AM
Figured but you never know on here.
You need one of those emoji sarcasm faces :)

🙄

Filler filler

Bluedriver
12-15-2017, 08:00 AM
I wasn't talking to you, BD.

Jesus Christ, learn to read, comprehend, or just stop typing.

It's always better to S TFU as opposed to what you're doing which is removing all doubt as to just what a big no-nothing blowhard you really are.

Sorry Juicebox, you said he was a charter member of my club BECAUSE he wants to vote no on a CBA just because. That implies that my club condones that action.

My club does NOT approve. Therefore I declare you a monkeys bottom.

BunkerF16
12-15-2017, 08:03 AM
Sorry Juicebox, you said he was a charter member of my club BECAUSE he wants to vote no on a CBA just because. That implies that my club condones that action.

My club does NOT approve. Therefore I declare you a monkeys bottom.


Everything's all about you, BD.

I was specifically talking to him, about him and his actions.

You really are the most pathetic person on this board. And that says a lot.

The701Express
12-15-2017, 08:31 AM
Notice I said good contract. We may get something before them, but a lot of guys here seem to think "We will never get paid like brand x." That defeatism is going to keep us down I think.

What seems to be is not always representative of what is true.

The negotiating committee has data from at least two online surveys and two or three phone polls performed throughout the duration of this negotiating process. They know where this pilot group expects to be with a new CBA. They have quantitative data, while our impressions are anecdotal and qualitative.

Based on all of the NC and MEC communications to the pilot group and listening to them talk at both rallies and other events, they know an overwhelming majority of the pilots here will not settle for less than our peers that are represented in the contract comparison guide.

Are there pilots who will settle for less? Yes, I've flown with some who have said so. But they represent a sliver of a minority that reside on the low side of the bell curve that represents our pilot group. The vast opinion of our pilots I've interacted with are sick of the status quo of continually trailing our peers in compensation, work rules, benefits, etc.

Its been a long process to get to this stage of negotiations. Now is the time we can finally begin to push hard, in public and in private.

Passer, don't give into defeatism yourself. Many of these pilots you mentioned can be reached and persuaded. Even if you don't change their mind that day in the crew van or that trip, you may have planted a seed or watered one another pilot planted earlier. Maybe it will grow, maybe it won't. But if we resign ourselves to never reaching out to pilots with differing opinions, we will never have the open and honest dialogue required for this pilot group to be informed and unified.

I hope to be walking next to you on the 31st.

PasserOGas
12-15-2017, 09:24 AM
What seems to be is not always representative of what is true.

The negotiating committee has data from at least two online surveys and two or three phone polls performed throughout the duration of this negotiating process. They know where this pilot group expects to be with a new CBA. They have quantitative data, while our impressions are anecdotal and qualitative.

Based on all of the NC and MEC communications to the pilot group and listening to them talk at both rallies and other events, they know an overwhelming majority of the pilots here will not settle for less than our peers that are represented in the contract comparison guide.

Are there pilots who will settle for less? Yes, I've flown with some who have said so. But they represent a sliver of a minority that reside on the low side of the bell curve that represents our pilot group. The vast opinion of our pilots I've interacted with are sick of the status quo of continually trailing our peers in compensation, work rules, benefits, etc.

Its been a long process to get to this stage of negotiations. Now is the time we can finally begin to push hard, in public and in private.

Passer, don't give into defeatism yourself. Many of these pilots you mentioned can be reached and persuaded. Even if you don't change their mind that day in the crew van or that trip, you may have planted a seed or watered one another pilot planted earlier. Maybe it will grow, maybe it won't. But if we resign ourselves to never reaching out to pilots with differing opinions, we will never have the open and honest dialogue required for this pilot group to be informed and unified.

I hope to be walking next to you on the 31st.

Well lets hope you are right. I will vote no on any TA with sub big 3 pay rates, work rules and a +1 clause. Oh and scope. Hope the one we get has all that.

Southerner
12-15-2017, 10:00 AM
Well lets hope you are right. I will vote no on any TA with sub big 3 pay rates, work rules and a +1 clause. Oh and scope. Hope the one we get has all that.



You really shouldnít post online what you would or wouldnít vote yes on.


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PasserOGas
12-15-2017, 10:41 AM
You really shouldnít post online what you would or wouldnít vote yes on.


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Dont worry, I highly doubt all that will be in the TA anyway.

Southerner
12-15-2017, 10:58 AM
Dont worry, I highly doubt all that will be in the TA anyway.



I trust our negotiating committee will present us with a worthy TA.


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Bluedriver
12-15-2017, 11:19 AM
Everything's all about you, BD.

I was specifically talking to him, about him and his actions.

You really are the most pathetic person on this board. And that says a lot.

Feelings not hurt Juicebox. You mentioned me in your post for a reason. You brought me into your post, not the other way around.

BunkerF16
12-15-2017, 12:42 PM
Feelings not hurt Juicebox. You mentioned me in your post for a reason. You brought me into your post, not the other way around.

Nope....my original post mentioned no one and quoted no one but of course you felt the need to make it about you...keep the lying and BS going though, tool.

Itís always about you and your little pathetic world. Youíre a joke and everyone on this site sees it.

Bluedriver
12-15-2017, 01:03 PM
If any of you guys who talk with MEC officers, or who are on the P2P committee and listened in on the last few calls, especially the last one, and don't have a feeling that we may be on the cusp of getting a AIP, then you believe what you WANT to believe, not what is actually going on. Some of you guys revel in your misery and hatred for this company and any positive momentum is counter-productive towards your agenda.

Does it mean we're going to have an agreement in the end of January? Of course not. But is it possible based on trends and momentum? Absolutely.

So, here is your post in question. You interjected it into the middle of a discussion sequence with which I was being very negative.

Just so we are clear, do you not consider me to be someone who revels in my misery and hatred for this company and someone who considers any positive momentum as counter-productive towards my agenda?

Southerner
12-15-2017, 01:14 PM
So, here is your post in question. You interjected it into the middle of a discussion sequence with which I was being very negative.



Just so we are clear, do you not consider me to be someone who revels in my misery and hatred for this company and someone who considers any positive momentum as counter-productive towards my agenda?



Good job. Acknowledging you have a problem is the first step.


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atrdriver
12-15-2017, 03:49 PM
I trust our negotiating committee will present us with a worthy TA.


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Do you trust them enough to honor their request for backup by wearing your lanyard? See you in NY on the 31st? :rolleyes:

slimothy
12-15-2017, 04:03 PM
Itís like you can TASTE the unity.

Cloud5urfer
12-16-2017, 03:12 AM
So, here is your post in question. You interjected it into the middle of a discussion sequence with which I was being very negative.

Just so we are clear, do you not consider me to be someone who revels in my misery and hatred for this company and someone who considers any positive momentum as counter-productive towards my agenda?

Not to get between you two, but when I was reading through the posts I thought the posts related more to PasserOGas than it did to you. But he didn't direct us at anyone in particular. Those that are excessively negative and hate the company know who they are.

PasserOGas
12-16-2017, 05:25 AM
I trust our negotiating committee will present us with a worthy TA.


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Im sure no matter what's in it you will vote yes.

hyperboy
12-16-2017, 05:37 AM
Why? I have no intention of voting"no" just because and have NEVER said I would.

Just goes to further show that your opinions and judgement are worthless.

You must be a founding member of Southerner's club.

More insults. I PM'd you to chat....Nothing. Call me I sent you my number. Man up? This will not work....

Southerner
12-16-2017, 07:51 AM
Im sure no matter what's in it you will vote yes.



You donít know me or what Iím looking for in a CBA. And Iím not about to broadcast it here on this site. Automatic yes is as stupid as automatic no.


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Southerner
12-16-2017, 07:51 AM
More insults. I PM'd you to chat....Nothing. Call me I sent you my number. Man up? This will not work....



Heís an internet troll. They disappear in the light of day.


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Bluedriver
12-16-2017, 06:53 PM
Not to get between you two, but when I was reading through the posts I thought the posts related more to PasserOGas than it did to you. But he didn't direct us at anyone in particular. Those that are excessively negative and hate the company know who they are.

I'm well aware of my status as the most disliked anti-juicebox on this site.

Hope-salesman can't hurt my feelings.

Not directed at you of course.

Bluedriver
12-16-2017, 06:54 PM
More insults. I PM'd you to chat....Nothing. Call me I sent you my number. Man up? This will not work....

I have nothing to say to you.

Bluedriver
12-16-2017, 06:58 PM
Heís an internet troll. They disappear in the light of day.


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I am well aware of my status as most disliked anti-juicebox on this site. That doesn't bother me.

I didn't call Hyperboy because I have absolutely nothing to say to him.

It's strange that you don't seem to notice that for years most on here have considered you a GIANT company apologist. I have almost never actually witnessed someone here agreeing with your general point of view, so I wouldn't be so quick to label someone else a troll.

Southerner
12-17-2017, 12:09 AM
I am well aware of my status as most disliked anti-juicebox on this site. That doesn't bother me.



I didn't call Hyperboy because I have absolutely nothing to say to him.



It's strange that you don't seem to notice that for years most on here have considered you a GIANT company apologist. I have almost never actually witnessed someone here agreeing with your general point of view, so I wouldn't be so quick to label someone else a troll.



They think that because Iím not a bitter jerk who hates the company. And I generally feel itís good to offer counterpoint in an echo chamber. Echo chambers are NEVER a good thing. When I see people all together and chanting the same lines, that makes me very nervous because they are not considering alternative points of view. Hunan beings make bad decisions when they all get together and stop thinking critically. Itís good to understand that your point of view isnít the only one, and that others may be just as valid.

On here, I see it as imperative that a few of us counter the likes of you because for an outsider, they do not fly in our planes. They donít know that you are a VERY vocal, small minority. This site gives you an extremely disproportionate voice. If no one spoke up to call you out, those on the outside might very well not understand that fact.

If that makes me an apologist in your eyes, fine. But you donít know me or my true feelings on anything, and I certainly wouldnít post my 100% true thoughts on most anything online publicly.

The only 100% true thing that I will post on here are my feelings about your intelligence, your reading comprehension, and your inability to understand a nuanced position. None of which arenít very high opinions.


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Bluedriver
12-17-2017, 04:45 AM
They think that because Iím not a bitter jerk who hates the company. And I generally feel itís good to offer counterpoint in an echo chamber. Echo chambers are NEVER a good thing. When I see people all together and chanting the same lines, that makes me very nervous because they are not considering alternative points of view. Hunan beings make bad decisions when they all get together and stop thinking critically. Itís good to understand that your point of view isnít the only one, and that others may be just as valid.

On here, I see it as imperative that a few of us counter the likes of you because for an outsider, they do not fly in our planes. They donít know that you are a VERY vocal, small minority. This site gives you an extremely disproportionate voice. If no one spoke up to call you out, those on the outside might very well not understand that fact.

If that makes me an apologist in your eyes, fine. But you donít know me or my true feelings on anything, and I certainly wouldnít post my 100% true thoughts on most anything online publicly.

The only 100% true thing that I will post on here are my feelings about your intelligence, your reading comprehension, and your inability to understand a nuanced position. None of which arenít very high opinions.


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Awful lot of spelling and grammar problems in there for someone criticising another's intelligence and reading comprehension.

That aside, I am FAR from the only one that has found you to be a "company guy".

Good thing you are here to save us "hunan" beings from making all our bad decisions. Goes back to you telling us all that you are better at evaluating reality than most of us.

Either way, I could not possibly care less what you think of me.

Golf Fox Yankee Southerner.

Even a brain-dead juicebox like yourself can figure out just what I think of you.

Southerner
12-17-2017, 05:21 AM
Awful lot of spelling and grammar problems in there for someone criticising another's intelligence and reading comprehension.



That aside, I am FAR from the only one that has found you to be a "company guy".



Good thing you are here to save us "hunan" beings from making all our bad decisions. Goes back to you telling us all that you are better at evaluating reality than most of us.



Either way, I could not possibly care less what you think of me.



Golf Fox Yankee Southerner.



Even a brain-dead juicebox like yourself can figure out just what I think of you.



The feeling is mutual.


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CaptCoolHand
12-17-2017, 05:55 AM
Now that thatís settled...

Picketing 31jan. Be there.

coopervane
12-17-2017, 08:43 AM
Also, Hunan chicken is quite tasty....


I like lamp

HighFlight
12-17-2017, 08:52 AM
*criticiZing

Awful lot of spelling and grammar problems in there for someone criticising another's intelligence and reading comprehension.

That aside, I am FAR from the only one that has found you to be a "company guy".

Good thing you are here to save us "hunan" beings from making all our bad decisions. Goes back to you telling us all that you are better at evaluating reality than most of us.

Either way, I could not possibly care less what you think of me.

Golf Fox Yankee Southerner.

Even a brain-dead juicebox like yourself can figure out just what I think of you.

HighFlight
12-17-2017, 08:53 AM
Lava, or LED?


I like lamp

citxls
12-17-2017, 10:50 AM
Are we talking about hymies hunan in NYC from weekend at Bernieís?

Bluedriver
12-17-2017, 05:40 PM
*criticiZing

Everyone knows our CEO is British.

"Criticise is the preferred British spelling, related words are criticises, criticised, criticizing. The North American spelling of criticize is also considered correct and is gaining acceptance around the world. Criticize and criticise are examples of a group of words that are spelled with a ďzĒ in American English and with an ďsĒ in British English."

atrdriver
12-17-2017, 10:06 PM
Now that thatís settled...

Picketing 31jan. Be there.

Do you think someone who can't support his fellow pilots in a passive way (such as wearing the lanyard his MEC has requested he wear) will support his fellow pilots in an active manner on 31jan? I've asked Southerner a couple times and he has ignored the question...... what say you?

CaptCoolHand
12-18-2017, 03:22 AM
Do you think someone who can't support his fellow pilots in a passive way (such as wearing the lanyard his MEC has requested he wear) will support his fellow pilots in an active manner on 31jan? I've asked Southerner a couple times and he has ignored the question...... what say you?

No I donít.

I think itís a simple request. We are in the midst of a political war and symbolism is one of our biggest weapons.

We will be in a labor dispute in a few short days. In order to obtain a market rate contract. We should all be doing exactly what our union leadership asks of us to better our QOL and PAY.

IMO, Youíre either with us or rowing against us.

Bluedriver
12-18-2017, 03:42 AM
Do you think someone who can't support his fellow pilots in a passive way (such as wearing the lanyard his MEC has requested he wear) will support his fellow pilots in an active manner on 31jan? I've asked Southerner a couple times and he has ignored the question...... what say you?

He's a little busy with his superior evaluations, saving all us "hunan" beings from our bad decisions, and representing the companies side in the echo chamber...

CaptCoolHand
12-18-2017, 04:23 AM
He's a little busy with his superior evaluations, saving all us "hunan" beings from our bad decisions, and representing the companies side in the echo chamber...

Seriously. Not helping.

We need to put our attitudes aside from both sides of the force and pull it together.

Xtreme87
12-18-2017, 04:58 AM
Before you know it, weíre gonna be some East vs. west morons handing management millions of dollars because weíre too dumb to put our egos aside. Letís not become that.

pilotpayne
12-18-2017, 06:48 AM
Before you know it, weíre gonna be some East vs. west morons handing management millions of dollars because weíre too dumb to put our egos aside. Letís not become that.

Heck we already have 320 vs 190 or rebel base vs the world going on. I agree this is getting old. Nobody wins an Internet war. Why canít you guys just accept that we look at things differently but in the end we all want what is best for our pilots? Once the contract is done go at it but now is not the time. You guys (me included) need to put the keyboard down and just let some things go.

hilltopflyer
12-18-2017, 07:11 AM
Certain few (both sides) need to give up apc for an early lent (till after the picketing event)

Combatcraig
12-18-2017, 09:55 AM
This forum is beginning to be as painful as BP to read...
Unity? Never heard of her!
Bout time to dig deeper, find some AND get your marching shoes ready!!

hyperboy
12-18-2017, 11:47 AM
He's a little busy with his superior evaluations, saving all us "hunan" beings from our bad decisions, and representing the companies side in the echo chamber...


You called me a company guy and now you are not man enough to address yourpersonal insults?! Yet you say on the board you have nothing to say?

Come on man up? You have my number! Letís chat like men? I think you will find we have somethings in common. Rather than drawing a line and putting and calling me out cowardly?

Be a man.......?

Bluedriver
12-18-2017, 12:16 PM
you called me a company guy and now you are not man enough to address yourpersonal insults?! Yet you say on the board you have nothing to say?

Come on man up? You have my number! Letís chat like men? I think you will find we have somethings in common. Rather than drawing a line and putting and calling me out cowardly?

Be a man.......?

I was talking about Southerner!

hyperboy
12-18-2017, 04:55 PM
I was talking about Southerner!


Iím sorry. Still call so we can solve the worlds problems......?
:D:D