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View Full Version : Cj3


starkutt1
12-22-2017, 01:46 PM
Hey Guys long time member first time poster here , Iím about to start training on the cj3 any tips on what to do and what not to do when flying the airplane ? Howís the performance ? Is the proline 21 hard to understand ?


TiredSoul
12-22-2017, 01:55 PM
Well that all depends on where youíre coming from.
I had a bunch of G1000 time before I got on a CJ2 which is the same type rating by the way.
Proline is pretty good and easy stuff.
Iíve only flown the 2 and never the 3 but we did about 8 out of 10 legs at 450.
ATC will consider you a rolling roadblock in the climb and take you off the SID if you go out of busy places.
At altitude those little engines just sip fuel. Youíre talking 700lbs/hr.
If memory serves me right you need like 75-80% N1 for the wing anti ice to get hot enough so you canít do a chop and drop with wing anti ice ON. Watch out with the window heat bleed air as on HIGH it will melt the windshield on the ground.
Turn window de fog on at TOD if you go into any southern state.
A 40-50F EGT split can indicate a busted bleed air precooler.
If you go to CAE Morristown theyíll show you pictures of what happens when a precooler ruptures.
Other then that itís a delight to fly.

starkutt1
12-22-2017, 06:55 PM
Well that all depends on where youíre coming from.
I had a bunch of G1000 time before I got on a CJ2 which is the same type rating by the way.
Proline is pretty good and easy stuff.
Iíve only flown the 2 and never the 3 but we did about 8 out of 10 legs at 450.
ATC will consider you a rolling roadblock in the climb and take you off the SID if you go out of busy places.
At altitude those little engines just sip fuel. Youíre talking 700lbs/hr.
If memory serves me right you need like 75-80% N1 for the wing anti ice to get hot enough so you canít do a chop and drop with wing anti ice ON. Watch out with the window heat bleed air as on HIGH it will melt the windshield on the ground.
Turn window de fog on at TOD if you go into any southern state.
A 40-50F EGT split can indicate a busted bleed air precooler.
If you go to CAE Morristown theyíll show you pictures of what happens when a precooler ruptures.
Other then that itís a delight to fly.

Haha Iíve heard people call it slowtation Iím guessing thatís why atc takes you off the sid, Iím currently a freight dog pilot flying a bigger airplane than the cj3 , No glass cockpit , Autopilot or fadec so Iím kinda worried that it might be hard adapting to it .


Varsity
12-22-2017, 07:00 PM
Well that all depends on where youíre coming from.
I had a bunch of G1000 time before I got on a CJ2 which is the same type rating by the way.
Proline is pretty good and easy stuff.
Iíve only flown the 2 and never the 3 but we did about 8 out of 10 legs at 450.
ATC will consider you a rolling roadblock in the climb and take you off the SID if you go out of busy places.
At altitude those little engines just sip fuel. Youíre talking 700lbs/hr.
If memory serves me right you need like 75-80% N1 for the wing anti ice to get hot enough so you canít do a chop and drop with wing anti ice ON. Watch out with the window heat bleed air as on HIGH it will melt the windshield on the ground.
Turn window de fog on at TOD if you go into any southern state.
A 40-50F EGT split can indicate a busted bleed air precooler.
If you go to CAE Morristown theyíll show you pictures of what happens when a precooler ruptures.
Other then that itís a delight to fly.

The CJ1/2 are slower than a turd. The 3+ and the 4 climb like scalded cats, very different experience.

It's a very easy airplane to fly. It lands like a cessna as opposed to a big jet. (chop the power over the numbers, fly it into the flare).

BoilerUP
12-22-2017, 07:08 PM
CJ2+ climbs like a CJ3, <25min from sea level MTOW to FL450, where within 5 minutes you have to pull thrust levers out of cruise detent because you are bumping the .737 MMo.

278 VMo does get you booted off of SIDs/STARs, though...

Easy airframe to fly, forgiving, reliable.

starkutt1
12-22-2017, 07:15 PM
Well that all depends on where youíre coming from.
I had a bunch of G1000 time before I got on a CJ2 which is the same type rating by the way.
Proline is pretty good and easy stuff.
Iíve only flown the 2 and never the 3 but we did about 8 out of 10 legs at 450.
ATC will consider you a rolling roadblock in the climb and take you off the SID if you go out of busy places.
At altitude those little engines just sip fuel. Youíre talking 700lbs/hr.
If memory serves me right you need like 75-80% N1 for the wing anti ice to get hot enough so you canít do a chop and drop with wing anti ice ON. Watch out with the window heat bleed air as on HIGH it will melt the windshield on the ground.
Turn window de fog on at TOD if you go into any southern state.
A 40-50F EGT split can indicate a busted bleed air precooler.
If you go to CAE Morristown theyíll show you pictures of what happens when a precooler ruptures.
Other then that itís a delight to fly.

CJ2+ climbs like a CJ3, <25min from sea level MTOW to FL450, where within 5 minutes you have to pull thrust levers out of cruise detent because you are bumping the .737 MMo.

278 VMo does get you booted off of SIDs/STARs, though...

Easy airframe to fly, forgiving, reliable.


Thanks guys greatly appreciate the prompt responses

galaxy flyer
12-22-2017, 07:21 PM
If you do go to CAE Morristown, donít, do NOT, miss Billyís Red Room Tavern.

GF

Liberty Pilot
12-22-2017, 08:08 PM
The 3 will climb so definitely watch out for altitudes.

All of our CJs have proline 21 but they all have different boxes which makes it interesting to see how the fms can change your perspective on the avionics.

Luckily our 3 has a collins box and makes everything super easy. There definitely is a learning curve to these avionics although its much smaller if you have any glass experience in the past.

Once you get the hang of how it is organized it really becomes like most avionics and fms you have used in the past (if you have).

Good Luck!

BoilerUP
12-23-2017, 02:42 AM
Both the 2+ and the 3 should have the FMS-3000.

Mink
12-23-2017, 09:12 AM
I came from a Navy / Grumman steam gauge beast. CJ3 was my first FMS type rating, single pilot. If I can do it...

I've trained at FSI in ICT and at ProFlight at CRQ, both we excellent. CAE DFW for recurrent not so great. With the pilot shortage, I'm wondering if the same quality level of IP exists at those places?

ProLine is set up logically. Once you get the basics, it starts to make sense. FADECs are great, and the Williams engines are simple and reliable (at least from this operator's perspective).

The performance is impressive. Powerful engines, and at lighter weights it will press you back in the seat on T/O. As others have indicated, it will climb like mad and a low level off (1500 feet coming out of TEB comes to mind) will be easy to blow through if you're not ready. Runway perf is excellent for T/O and landing, and the range at FL450 is impressive. Biggest issue on long legs single pilot is no relief tube up front.

If you're flying it single pilot, it can get busy but I found I enjoyed the challenge once attaining a certain level of comfort with the airplane / systems.

Good luck - I think you'll like the CJ3.

Xems
12-23-2017, 04:45 PM
Galaxy is right about Billy's Red Room. That place is truly an original! As far as the CJ, I don't have time in it but a coworker has some. He claims it was one of the easiest airplanes he has flown!

Have fun with it!

starkutt1
12-23-2017, 07:10 PM
I came from a Navy / Grumman steam gauge beast. CJ3 was my first FMS type rating, single pilot. If I can do it...

I've trained at FSI in ICT and at ProFlight at CRQ, both we excellent. CAE DFW for recurrent not so great. With the pilot shortage, I'm wondering if the same quality level of IP exists at those places?

ProLine is set up logically. Once you get the basics, it starts to make sense. FADECs are great, and the Williams engines are simple and reliable (at least from this operator's perspective).

The performance is impressive. Powerful engines, and at lighter weights it will press you back in the seat on T/O. As others have indicated, it will climb like mad and a low level off (1500 feet coming out of TEB comes to mind) will be easy to blow through if you're not ready. Runway perf is excellent for T/O and landing, and the range at FL450 is impressive. Biggest issue on long legs single pilot is no relief tube up front.

If you're flying it single pilot, it can get busy but I found I enjoyed the challenge once attaining a certain level of comfort with the airplane / systems.

Good luck - I think you'll like the CJ3.

Iím currently flying steam gauges no autopilot Iím hoping it will be an easy transition thanks for the response fly safe

HuggyU2
12-24-2017, 08:37 AM
I trained at ProFlight in Carlsbad, and they were excellent. The transition to this kind of flying was smooth, thanks to their efforts.
You'll enjoy the airplane.

Gsxr750
12-24-2017, 10:01 AM
First of all the airplane is very easy to fly..if you don't have any experience with the proline 21..really focus on how to operate the box.. because the rest is pretty easy if you are any kind of pilot at all..

Varsity
12-30-2017, 07:19 PM
First of all the airplane is very easy to fly..if you don't have any experience with the proline 21..really focus on how to operate the box.. because the rest is pretty easy if you are any kind of pilot at all..

This too. Make sure you have the syntax down pat before you get busy somewhere. Otherwise you'll be messing around "Was that a forward slash or backslash for the crossing restriction..?":confused:

HwkrPlt
12-31-2017, 06:08 AM
If you do go to CAE Morristown, donít, do NOT, miss Billyís Red Room Tavern.

GF

Guess you didn't hear the news:

https://patch.com/new-jersey/parsippany/fire-destroyed-billys-red-room-tavern-started-kitchen

galaxy flyer
12-31-2017, 06:31 AM
Oh the humanity! The worse NJ event since the Hindenburg.

GF

HwkrPlt
12-31-2017, 06:44 AM
Oh the humanity! The worse NJ event since the Hindenburg.

GF

I only had the chance to go there once, but it was a fun experience.

Lucky8888
01-01-2018, 04:20 PM
Oh the humanity! The worse NJ event since the Hindenburg.

GF

Great place. Too bad.



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