Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




NYC Pilot
12-23-2017, 06:52 AM
Hello all, I was told by a friend at American that the most junior B777 FO has 13 years with the company. Does that sound right? With all the retirements and hiring going on, I would assume holding these seats would happen quicker. Thoughts and dates of hire for these positions would be appreciated, happy holidays!


TXav8r13
12-23-2017, 07:00 AM
Hello all, I was told by a friend at American that the most junior B777 FO has 13 years with the company. Does that sound right? With all the retirements and hiring going on, I would assume holding these seats would happen quicker. Thoughts and dates of hire for these positions would be appreciated, happy holidays!

LAA didnít hire anyone from 2001 to 2013 so that number could be accurate.

EMBFlyer
12-23-2017, 07:03 AM
Hello all, I was told by a friend at American that the most junior B777 FO has 13 years with the company. Does that sound right? With all the retirements and hiring going on, I would assume holding these seats would happen quicker. Thoughts and dates of hire for these positions would be appreciated, happy holidays!

Not correct. There's a Jan 2013 hire holding it in LGA on the March bid.


Sliceback
12-23-2017, 07:06 AM
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/american/109173-end-2017-base-equipment-seniority.html

LAA junior 777 slots into summer 2001.
Roughly 1000-1100, or more, slotted in April 2001.

LUS itís currently slots into 2012 DOH.

Bottom 777 FO seniority number drops about 250 between January and March. Movement is good.

aa73
12-23-2017, 07:14 AM
New vacancy bid out has something like 83 Group 4 CA vacancies and tons of G4 FO vacancies. That is impressive...Nice movement.

NYC Pilot
12-23-2017, 07:47 AM
Thanks guys! I forgot to mention, the guy awarded 777 FO was a L- US west pilot. I am aware L-AA didn't hire for many years. So is it safe to say that someone hired in 2015(flow thru pilot) can hold a group 4 aircraft as FO in another couple of years? My friend was saying that group 4 FO's have the equivalent seniority to hold NB Captain.

aa73
12-23-2017, 07:57 AM
G2 CA would come within about 6-7 years for someone hired today (barring nothing catastrophic.) I believe you’d be able to hold G4 FO well before that, prob within 3-4 years is my guess.

Bottom G2 CA is right around 11,000 seniority, so you’d have to figure out how long it would take you to get there as a new hire... today it would take about 6 years.

Sliceback
12-23-2017, 08:04 AM
The link I provided has seniority numbers in different seats in duffer by bases.

APC profile has retirement numbers. Junior newhire today will be about 14,800(?) on property, roughly 15,200 seniority due to retirees not being removed from the list until July 1st.

Take the junior guy, subtract annual retirements, and a rough estimate of early career progression can be see.

Significant w/b basing shuffle and 767 retirements (ORD, DFW, LAX, CLT, PHL, JFK, MIA) going on right now so itís not a perfect predictor of the future.

Sliceback
12-23-2017, 08:07 AM
G2 CA would come within about 6-7 years for someone hired today (barring nothing catastrophic.) I believe youíd be able to hold G4 FO well before that, prob within 3-4 years is my guess.

Bottom G2 CA is right around 11,000 seniority, so youíd have to figure out how long it would take you to get there as a new hire... today it would take about 6 years.

Six years. Based on no growth. As long as they donít figure out how to stop cell decay...

Laker24
12-23-2017, 08:27 AM
Junior G4 FO has about the same seniority as junior G2 CA. +- $224/hr vs $270/hour.

Sliceback
12-23-2017, 08:47 AM
G4 FO lineholder vs G2 rsv CA is basically the same pay or pretty darn close to it.

FO = 80% relative seniority or better.
Junior CA is 90%, or worse, relative seniority.

Some guys wanna be Captain.
Some enjoy the G4 FO easy life style.

mainlineAF
12-23-2017, 09:25 AM
G4 FO lineholder vs G2 rsv CA is basically the same pay or pretty darn close to it.



FO = 80% relative seniority or better.

Junior CA is 90%, or worse, relative seniority.



Some guys wanna be Captain.

Some enjoy the G4 FO easy life style.



G4 easy lifestyle?! Launching in the late evening then flying all night with 24-28 hours off then a 2amíish body clock wake up to fly 8-10 hours? Nope!

Sounds like torture to me. You boys can have that. Iíd rather slog in and out of LGA all day[emoji23]

aa73
12-23-2017, 09:40 AM
G4 FO lineholder vs G2 rsv CA is basically the same pay or pretty darn close to it.

FO = 80% relative seniority or better.
Junior CA is 90%, or worse, relative seniority.

Some guys wanna be Captain.
Some enjoy the G4 FO easy life style.

True dat, with one big caveat: as a G2 CA on bottom reserve, all you need to do is one Over Guarantee or Premium 3-day trip on days off and youíve just blown the G4 FOís paycheck out of the water by a good $3K. And it happens every month.

Iím with Laker, bottom reserve junior G2 CA is way easier on the body than senior G4 FO constantly battling time zones. However that G4 FO is only working 9-10 days a month vs 15-18. However when I was an Intl FO it would take me a couple of days to fully recover.

But thatís what makes this place great....something for everyone.

Sliceback
12-23-2017, 09:57 AM
Different story for commuters. Or guys who are good nappers.

One manís w(h)ine is another guyís vinegar.

Senior transcons are the easiest flying there is. Day time with no alarm clocks.

TQ Nola
12-23-2017, 10:07 AM
I could hold NB left seat, but as a commuter with only a few decent options every day to get to base, it's totally unworkable with the kind of flying we have on NB for reserves and bottom lineholders. WB, I can commute in on the same day a sequence leaves and get home on the same day a sequence returns. That is Gold.

If I lived in-domicile I'd be all over left seat NB. My wife and I are considering a move, but circumstances don't permit it for at least the next year or two.

mainlineAF
12-23-2017, 10:53 AM
True dat, with one big caveat: as a G2 CA on bottom reserve, all you need to do is one Over Guarantee or Premium 3-day trip on days off and youíve just blown the G4 FOís paycheck out of the water by a good $3K. And it happens every month.



Iím with Laker, bottom reserve junior G2 CA is way easier on the body than senior G4 FO constantly battling time zones. However that G4 FO is only working 9-10 days a month vs 15-18. However when I was an Intl FO it would take me a couple of days to fully recover.



But thatís what makes this place great....something for everyone.



Those guys only working 9-10 days a month are super senior line holders. If youíre doing Europe trips out of JFK or PHL 5 trips will only get you 80ish hours.

Now the guys doing widebody reserve who live in base have a good deal. Maybe fly a few days a month. I could handle that.

Laker24
12-23-2017, 11:27 AM
G4 FO lineholder vs G2 rsv CA is basically the same pay or pretty darn close to it.

FO = 80% relative seniority or better.
Junior CA is 90%, or worse, relative seniority.

Some guys wanna be Captain.
Some enjoy the G4 FO easy life style.


I don't think we are talking about G4 line holders. We are talking about junior wide body FO vs Junior CA. With the exception of maybe PHL, GR4 FO's who can hold a line are very senior. The bottom line holder in LA on the 787 is mid 7,000 seniority.

Around the 10,500-11,000 seniority range you get choice of reserve GR2 CA or reserve GR4 FO. 270ish @76 hours vs 220ish @ 76 hours credit. The GR 4 trips are probably a more fun though.

aa73
12-23-2017, 12:22 PM
G2 junior CA vs G4 junior FO? No brainer. Left seat is a million times more fun & challenging than being brain dead as FO, FB or FC. and youíll make more $$$ to boot.

Sliceback
12-23-2017, 01:19 PM
In LGA and MIA when you can upgrade youíre also about the same seniority as a G4 FO line holder. Guys consider the options all the time.

Central and west coast bases have longer G4 trips which might be why the bid goes more senior for FOís . Three to four trips a month vs 4-6 trips for the east coast guys.

The good news is guys have a couple of years to figure out what works for them.

LIOG41
12-25-2017, 06:52 AM
Those guys only working 9-10 days a month are super senior line holders. If youíre doing Europe trips out of JFK or PHL 5 trips will only get you 80ish hours.

Now the guys doing widebody reserve who live in base have a good deal. Maybe fly a few days a month. I could handle that.

Since when is "80ish" hours not enough for the month? Jeez, what is the career coming to...is 95+ hours the norm for pilots? No thank you, i'll keep my sanity.

mainlineAF
12-25-2017, 06:59 AM
Since when is "80ish" hours not enough for the month? Jeez, what is the career coming to...is 95+ hours the norm for pilots? No thank you, i'll keep my sanity.



I didnít say 80 wasnít enough. I was just pointing out that 3 trips wonít get you anywhere close to the LCW. Simmer down.

Dolphinflyer
12-25-2017, 08:38 AM
G2 junior CA vs G4 junior FO? No brainer. Left seat is a million times more fun & challenging than being brain dead as FO, FB or FC. and you’ll make more $$$ to boot.

I'm around 30 percentile at my large base as Group II CA.

Outside of MIA and LGA, my Group IV FO relative seniority is worse at the remaining bases.

I need the $$$, would seriously consider the downbid otherwise. I took every upgrade on the earliest Xmas bid, but the job will still suck the life out of you at times.

sumwherelse
12-26-2017, 02:23 PM
Hey slice your good with numbers. Where do you see jr captains going on this June bid? Keeping in mind that the current numbers will be about 5-600 lower then what they are now come June.

Sliceback
12-26-2017, 02:57 PM
Honest clause - drinking. Not gonna look it up. Four job runs per year should be roughly an additional 25% of the typical drop in annual junior CA seniority. 200 lower? 250? I looked in my beer and it didnít have the answer. ;-)

Sliceback
12-26-2017, 02:59 PM
June will be the current seniority numbers. July 1st is the change, published roughly the third week of July.

Sliceback
12-26-2017, 03:13 PM
IMO too many ‘unknown unknowns’ to make short accurate term predictions. We’re just switching to four job vacancy runs vs monthly job vacancy runs. If it stays Mar/Jun/Sep/Dec I’m guessing that Mar/Jun will go more senior and Sep/Dec will go more junior due to the potential of training over the summer or holidays. $.02, might be proven to be wildly wrong.

Since we’re currently transitioning, with no prior experience to establish a baseline, I have no clue what the June run will be.

But movement is good.



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1