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View Full Version : ACMI Schedules


Wayst
12-23-2017, 03:06 PM
Will ACMI companies that are flying a lot of domestic only cargo like Amazon and DHL lines move towards 3-4 day trips (like UPS and Fedex) instead of 2-3weeks on?


No Land 3
12-23-2017, 03:16 PM
Will ACMI companies that are flying a lot of domestic only cargo like Amazon and DHL move towards a 3-4 day trips (like UPS and Fedex) instead of 2-3weeks on?

Why would you want that? Donít you want all of your days off in a row?

Wayst
12-23-2017, 03:20 PM
Why would you want that? Don’t you want all of your days off in a row?

I prefer to be home every week. Plus you are limited to 60 hours of flying in a two week period. So if you fly a every week you can fly 80-90 hours a month (more money) and be home every week.


Jason605
12-23-2017, 04:00 PM
Will ACMI companies that are flying a lot of domestic only cargo like Amazon and DHL lines move towards 3-4 day trips (like UPS and Fedex) instead of 2-3weeks on?

And have to spend more time commuting? God, I hope not. No thanks. At ABX there is a mix of working all your days straight in a row or a week on and a week off. This job would be unbearable if I had to go to work for 3 days and home for 2 or 3. I get way more done around the house and spend more time with my son with either a full week off or 2 weeks in a row.

Trust me, way better this way. Fly more? No thanks to that either. Lol

Busflyer
12-23-2017, 05:59 PM
I prefer to be home every week. Plus you are limited to 60 hours of flying in a two week period. So if you fly a every week you can fly 80-90 hours a month (more money) and be home every week.


UPS has very few 3-4 day trips. Usually week on week off or 2 weeks on and 2 off. You're gonna end up on a trip rig and get paid 75-80 hours but only block 40-45. Wouldn't want all those short trips. If that's what you want then you should consider the regionals.

Lockheed
12-24-2017, 06:16 AM
I prefer to be home every week. Plus you are limited to 60 hours of flying in a two week period. So if you fly a every week you can fly 80-90 hours a month (more money) and be home every week.

I'm not certain about fedex or ups, but all the others ....
atlas, k4, abex, southern ect. are supplemental carriers not domestic
So there is no 30 in 7 rule...in fact the way we crew at k4 I can fly 120 hrs in those 2 weeks

CallmeJB
12-24-2017, 07:37 AM
I'm not certain about fedex or ups, but all the others ....
atlas, k4, abex, southern ect. are supplemental carriers not domestic
So there is no 30 in 7 rule...in fact the way we crew at k4 I can fly 120 hrs in those 2 weeks

Atlas operates under Flag, Supplemental, or Domestic. We are rarely supplemental, actually.

maxjet
12-24-2017, 02:30 PM
I prefer to be home every week. Plus you are limited to 60 hours of flying in a two week period. So if you fly a every week you can fly 80-90 hours a month (more money) and be home every week.
Why are you limited to 60hours in a two week period?

atpcliff
12-24-2017, 07:34 PM
I believe Atlas 767 DHL pilots based in CVG have a lot of those shorter trips.

One FO here said he did the above, and slept away from home 20 nights in 7 months. He said he was going to upgrade to 767 Capt CVG and stay there, so he could be home all the time (he lived in the CVG area).

Lockheed
12-25-2017, 05:25 AM
Atlas operates under Flag, Supplemental, or Domestic. We are rarely supplemental, actually.

I didn't know they had the three operating certs
That's smart to use domestic rules for dhl and amazon hub ops

Lockheed
12-25-2017, 05:26 AM
Why are you limited to 60hours in a two week period?

Domestic flight time limitation...30 hrs max in any 7 day period

Wayst
12-25-2017, 07:51 AM
Why are you limited to 60hours in a two week period?

ß 121.471 Flight time limitations and rest requirements: All flight crewmembers.
(a) No certificate holder conducting domestic operations may schedule any flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment for flight time in scheduled air transportation or in other commercial flying if that crewmember's total flight time in all commercial flying will exceed -

(1) 1,000 hours in any calendar year;

(2) 100 hours in any calendar month;

(3) 30 hours in any 7 consecutive days;

(4) 8 hours between required rest periods.





You can't fly more than 60 hours in a two week period. This is why the ACMI companies have a much lower min guarantee because you are working two weeks a month (potential 60 hours) instead of pax companies where you work 4 weeks a month (potential 100 hours).

CallmeJB
12-25-2017, 09:04 AM
I didn't know they had the three operating certs
That's smart to use domestic rules for dhl and amazon hub ops

It's not three separate certificates, it's three authorizations in OpSpec A001.

Note: yes, AAWH actually *does* currently operate three certificates, but that has nothing to do with this. Atlas, Polar, and Southern each have similar authorization language in A001: Domestic, Flag, and Supplemental.

It is up to the certificate holder to determine which authorization should be used for a particular flight, in accordance with all applicable limitations and authorizations in the OpSpecs and regulations.

This is all transparent to the flight crew. Our procedures and policies in the flight deck are identical for all three operations.

Most of the burden is on crew scheduling and their software (AIMS), to determine our required rest and legalities for each of the various operations (also gotta throw 117 into that mix, if operating a pax flight). The robust programming of AIMS is the biggest reason why the FAA allows us to operate this way.

Seems sketchy at first, but you get used to it. Stockholm syndrome and all that, ha!

Lucky Dog
12-25-2017, 09:54 AM
Most ACMI carriers are supplemental.

Supplemental carriers operate under 121.500 time and duty.

121.471 is for DOMESTIC carriers. Only applies if your carrier has domestic carrier in the op specs.

Might want to look up the deference between Supplemental and Domestic carriers.

CallmeJB
12-25-2017, 10:01 AM
Supplemental carriers operate under 121.500 time and duty.

Most only operate 117 when PAX on board.

Agree with your whole post, and just wanted to add a note about the quoted portion. (my emphasis added)

There is only one FAA air carrier that is authorized to 'mix and match' 117 rest rules with 121 rest rules: Atlas. As far as I know, no other ACMI is authorized to use 117 some time, and 121 the rest of the time (including, notably, not Polar, or Southern).

117 rest rules must be fully complied with when operating a pax aircraft (whether or not there are actual pax onboard). All other Atlas aircraft may be operated under the applicable 121 rest rules (Domestic, Flag, or Supplemental).

BoilerUP
12-25-2017, 12:01 PM
UPS has very few 3-4 day trips.


Except for domestic day or
Base Trip Lines, which are full of them.

RyeMex
12-25-2017, 12:17 PM
There is only one FAA air carrier that is authorized to 'mix and match' 117 rest rules with 121 rest rules: Atlas.

According to Carlson at the court case in D.C., there are two operators who have that authorization: Atlas and ATI (believe it or not). I believe that's due to the 757 combis that ATI operates. Obviously, their operation is not a very close resemblance to ours.

Twin Wasp
12-25-2017, 03:17 PM
This is all transparent to the flight crew. Our procedures and policies in the flight deck are identical for all three operations.

Just a point of order that the fuel reserves and alternate requirements are still different. One of the memos that came out said the releases would start showing what rules the flight is operating under next year.

maxjet
12-25-2017, 03:59 PM
I'm not certain about fedex or ups, but all the others ....
atlas, k4, abex, southern ect. are supplemental carriers not domestic
So there is no 30 in 7 rule...in fact the way we crew at k4 I can fly 120 hrs in those 2 weeks

If it is done right you can also do 350/90 days.

Jurassic Jet
12-25-2017, 05:03 PM
If it is done right you can also do 350/90 days.

That sounds like a hoot! Sorry but my goal is to retire the lowest time airline pilot in history.

HercDriver130
12-26-2017, 03:31 AM
ß 121.471 Flight time limitations and rest requirements: All flight crewmembers.
(a) No certificate holder conducting domestic operations may schedule any flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment for flight time in scheduled air transportation or in other commercial flying if that crewmember's total flight time in all commercial flying will exceed -

(1) 1,000 hours in any calendar year;

(2) 100 hours in any calendar month;

(3) 30 hours in any 7 consecutive days;

(4) 8 hours between required rest periods.







You can't fly more than 60 hours in a two week period. This is why the ACMI companies have a much lower min guarantee because you are working two weeks a month (potential 60 hours) instead of pax companies where you work 4 weeks a month (potential 100 hours).

Dude... you aren LISTENING...Kalitta, ABX, Atlas (to some extent), ATI, and others... operate under Supplemental rules.. there is no 30/7 rule... NONE... there are some 24 and 48 hours rules that force additional rest... but that is all...

maxjet
12-26-2017, 05:21 AM
That sounds like a hoot! Sorry but my goal is to retire the lowest time airline pilot in history.

So..... letís say you are making 250.00 an hour at K4. They have open time which you work at 375.00 an hour. Would that not get you to your retirement goal faster with less hours worked? Sometimes you have to think a little outside the box.

Crazy Canuck
12-26-2017, 09:35 AM
ß 121.471 Flight time limitations and rest requirements: All flight crewmembers.
(a) No certificate holder conducting domestic operations may schedule any flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment for flight time in scheduled air transportation or in other commercial flying if that crewmember's total flight time in all commercial flying will exceed -

(1) 1,000 hours in any calendar year;

(2) 100 hours in any calendar month;

(3) 30 hours in any 7 consecutive days;

(4) 8 hours between required rest periods.





You can't fly more than 60 hours in a two week period. This is why the ACMI companies have a much lower min guarantee because you are working two weeks a month (potential 60 hours) instead of pax companies where you work 4 weeks a month (potential 100 hours).

Find me an ACMI airline that flies more than 60 hours in a 2 week period and I will get an answer for you....

30-40 per MONTH is more realistic.

HercDriver130
12-26-2017, 10:21 AM
Find me an ACMI airline that flies more than 60 hours in a 2 week period and I will get an answer for you....

30-40 per MONTH is more realistic.

my flight hours for the past 4 years

2014 -- 570
2015 -- 745
2016 -- 486 ( out on medical for 10 weeks )
2017 -- 510 ( upgrade training and with down time no flying for 7 weeks )

During an entire most guys here credit something close to 55 flight hours on average (no OT).. NOT pay hours.. totally different animal.

Wayst
12-27-2017, 04:09 PM
Find me an ACMI airline that flies more than 60 hours in a 2 week period and I will get an answer for you....

30-40 per MONTH is more realistic.


It would just be nice to have an option to fly what you want like other airlines. If you want to fly several trips back to back so that you can get 12 days off in a row than that is great, but if you want to do 3-4 day trips every week and be home every week than that is great too. Having the option to do what you want and work as little or as much as you want to would be better for everyone.

No Land 3
12-27-2017, 04:38 PM
It would just be nice to have an option to fly what you want like other airlines. If you want to fly several trips back to back so that you can get 12 days off in a row than that is great, but if you want to do 3-4 day trips every week and be home every week than that is great too. Having the option to do what you want and work as little or as much as you want to would be better for everyone.

You should stick to flying pax, perhaps South West is more to your liking, or Spirit. I think you would quickly change your mind if you tried what the rest of us here have been enjoying, but if you insist on keeping that commuter hell of a lifestyle, that's your choice!

HercDriver130
12-27-2017, 05:49 PM
It would just be nice to have an option to fly what you want like other airlines. If you want to fly several trips back to back so that you can get 12 days off in a row than that is great, but if you want to do 3-4 day trips every week and be home every week than that is great too. Having the option to do what you want and work as little or as much as you want to would be better for everyone.

Its just not practical in the business....

CorsairF4u
12-27-2017, 06:00 PM
It does seem that 14 on 14 off would work for the company and give pilots less days worked in the year. You also know what you are doing way in advance. No travel on days off of course:)

Crazy Canuck
12-27-2017, 08:02 PM
agreed wayst. but thats what we give up for our gateway travel program, generally.

maxjet
12-28-2017, 07:23 AM
It would just be nice to have an option to fly what you want like other airlines. If you want to fly several trips back to back so that you can get 12 days off in a row than that is great, but if you want to do 3-4 day trips every week and be home every week than that is great too. Having the option to do what you want and work as little or as much as you want to would be better for everyone.

The company in our case, flys you to and from work, pays you DH and perdiem, from the time you leave home. Could you imagine the expense of short trip commutes? Home basing would disappear very quickly

Jason605
12-28-2017, 07:36 AM
It would just be nice to have an option to fly what you want like other airlines. If you want to fly several trips back to back so that you can get 12 days off in a row than that is great, but if you want to do 3-4 day trips every week and be home every week than that is great too. Having the option to do what you want and work as little or as much as you want to would be better for everyone.


I can't speak for others but at ABX our schedules are pretty regular. Run more like a scheduled op than an ACMI. That being said however, most of our overnights are 20 plus hours long. Your not gonna find 3 and 4 day trips in that.

Now we have 2 day and 1 day pairings and such. I suppose that if you get senior enough to hold a line and get really good at trip trading with the company and other pilots, you could probably manipulate your schedule to get close to what you want.

You probably really should be looking more at a pax airline for what your looking for though.

galaxy flyer
12-28-2017, 07:48 AM
Amazing, but true; pilots become disenchanted when they find out itís WORK!

That sounds like a hoot! Sorry but my goal is to retire the lowest time airline pilot in history.

Why, pray tell, did you become a pilot?

GF

qiutong
12-28-2017, 10:05 AM
Amazing, but true; pilots become disenchanted when they find out itís WORK!

ďSorry, but my goal is to retire the lowest time airline pilot in historyĒ

Why, pray tell, did you become a pilot?

GF

I have the same goal of retiring with a low total time. While I am absolutely passionate about flying airplanes, Iím even more passionate about my family, so family wins. I often tell people, that I fly the airplane for free, they pay me to stay away from my family....and they donít pay me enough!!

redbone
12-31-2017, 08:42 AM
I'm with those guys. I became a pilot for the schedule flexibility and for the relative autonomy we operate with. Flying airplanes is fun but I'd rather fly the sim once a quarter to remain current while collecting my reserve paychecks.


Amazing, but true; pilots become disenchanted when they find out itís WORK!



Why, pray tell, did you become a pilot?

GF

tomgoodman
12-31-2017, 11:14 AM
Amazing, but true; pilots become disenchanted when they find out itís WORK!

A pilotís role model: :D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xJxwgNqgobM



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