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View Full Version : 2017 W2 Earnings


TurbineDriver
12-31-2017, 06:30 AM
I would love to hear what everyone made in 2017! Post your company, how many years employed, block floan, and $$ earned.


Yeffro
12-31-2017, 06:41 AM
Frontier Airlines
2nd year
350 Block
980 Credit
Total Earnings including $3,200 in Per Diem = $51,833.98

HwkrPlt
12-31-2017, 06:46 AM
I would love to hear what everyone made in 2017! Post your company, how many years employed, block floan, and $$ earned.

what does floan mean?


TurbineDriver
12-31-2017, 08:08 AM
Flown*......

Andy
12-31-2017, 08:38 AM
United Airlines
year 12+
Block: 1080
Flown: 600? (stopped keeping track of hours flown eons ago)
$269,211.39 (W-2 only, doesn't include 401k contributions)

TommyDevito
12-31-2017, 08:40 AM
I would love to hear what everyone made in 2017! Post your company, how many years employed, block floan, and $$ earned.

I noticed you haven't contributed?

GucciBoy
12-31-2017, 08:51 AM
Frontier & United have already published your W-2s?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

forgot to bid
12-31-2017, 08:57 AM
United Airlines
year 12+
Block: 1080
Flown: 600? (stopped keeping track of hours flown eons ago)
$269,211.39 (W-2 only, doesn't include 401k contributions)

Aircraft and seat?

mainlineAF
12-31-2017, 09:07 AM
Frontier & United have already published your W-2s?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Think theyíre using their last pay stub for 2017 and using that data.

NotMrNiceGuy
12-31-2017, 09:30 AM
1) Airline employer
2) Seat
3) Equipment
4) Years of Service with company
5) How many days you worked
6) How many overnights you had
7) How many hours you blocked
8) How many hours did you credit
9) Expected gross income
10) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.)

Found this organization on another thread... sorry, my OCD got the best of me.

Andy
12-31-2017, 09:45 AM
Aircraft and seat?

787 FO which, as Gen Lee would say, means that I get paid while sleeping. :D

PilotJ3
12-31-2017, 11:13 AM
1 yr Delta 320 FO
Flew 360 hrs
Made $78,000 gross, 55k net
5k in PerDiem (but I expend 20 days in Miami for training. Per Diem ran 24/7)

I also was in training pay for the first 3 months of 2017.

ShyGuy
12-31-2017, 12:34 PM
This kinda thread usually ends up turning into a certain appendage measuring contest.

crewdawg
12-31-2017, 12:54 PM
This kinda thread usually ends up turning into a certain appendage measuring contest.

I disagree, check out the "True Comparison for Pay vs Quality of life," thread below. It only becomes a measuring contest if you view it as such. I think it actually provides some valuable insight for those looking to make the jump into the airline industry or those who have options between multiple airlines. It's a look past the simple pay rates that are posted on APC. I think you can glean some great some great info form these types of threads.

This thread might be better off being merged with the above mentions thread.

flakester
12-31-2017, 12:57 PM
10 year
FO
SWA
898 Block Hours

$ 254,256

does not include:

Per Diem of $ 7,399
B Fund of $ 34,066
Profit Sharing of : $ 25,460

Total Comp : $ 321,181

wankel7
12-31-2017, 01:48 PM
1) Airline employer
2) Seat
3) Equipment
4) Years of Service with company
5) How many days you worked
6) How many overnights you had
7) How many hours you blocked
8) How many hours did you credit
9) Expected gross income
10) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.)

Found this organization on another thread... sorry, my OCD got the best of me.

+1

While how much you make is neat and all knowing how many days you were on the road really puts it in context.

Peoloto
12-31-2017, 02:12 PM
10 year
FO
SWA
898 Block Hours

$ 254,256

does not include:

Per Diem of $ 7,399
B Fund of $ 34,066
Profit Sharing of : $ 25,460

Total Comp : $ 321,181

900 hours of SWA flying sounds brutal.

dashdriver44
12-31-2017, 02:18 PM
DELTA
2/3 year pay
600 Block
$205k
$33k 401k

Peoloto
12-31-2017, 02:22 PM
DELTA
2/3 year pay
600 Block
$205k
$33k 401k
About the same, mostly 2nd year.
$188k
$30k 401k.
600 block.

80ktsClamp
12-31-2017, 02:45 PM
Delta
320 FO Sim IP (1 month), 330 FO (9 months), 320 CA (last 2 months)
11th year
669 block hours
295,000 including 8800 in 401k DC cash
36,000 DC contribution from company

(I live in base, but didn't get any premium trips this year... unless the phone rings in the next few hours. :D )

rightside02
12-31-2017, 03:03 PM
I suggest we also mention weather you live in base or not . We all know living in base is the best way to catch those best premium trips etc ... I think it's fair to mention

Rolf
12-31-2017, 03:04 PM
SWA
12 year Cap
612 block hours
308k
A pair of socks and 36,000 DC contribution from company.

dash8kid
12-31-2017, 03:16 PM
11/12 yr
A320 CA
JetBlue
Reserve all 12 months
405 hrs block
239,000 gross
3,100 per Diem
12,500 company match 401K
óóóó
$254,600 Total Comp

3 years of contract negotiations.
Contract above all!!! Enough is enough.

Peoloto
12-31-2017, 03:22 PM
About the same, mostly 2nd year.
$188k
$30k 401k.
600 block.

Live in base.

UALfoLIFE
12-31-2017, 04:20 PM
United

2/3 year 320 FO pay, live in base, usually awarded 17-19 days off but pickup down to 14-15 off. Average 15 off. Double time pick up too.

865 hours
171k pay
14k per Diem
12k PS
27k B fund
224k Total.

RJSAviator76
12-31-2017, 04:35 PM
SWA

FO year 1-2 living in base
170k gross
23k in B-plan
8k in per diem.

Total ~ 201k

910 hours flown

ZapBrannigan
12-31-2017, 04:48 PM
I donít think adding perdiem and NEC (B-fund) to the total is kosher. I canít touch the retirement money. For all I know itíll end up being spent by my wife if I keel over at 64.5. And per diem is supposed to be for travel expenses like food.

Let the base pay numbers speak for themselves. You busted your rear end doing SWA flying for 900+ hours. I only did around 770 and I canít imagine doing much more than that! You flew the equivalent of more than a month more than I did! [emoji33] and more than 3 months worth more than the 787 guy a little further up the thread.

To each his own. To me though, the name of the game is ďhe who makes most by working least winsĒ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Viperstick
12-31-2017, 04:57 PM
1) Airline employer. : UAL
2) Seat: F/O
3) Equipment: 320
4) Years of Service with company: 3 in Feb 2017 (4th yr pay now)
5) How many days you worked: no idea
6) How many overnights you had: no idea
7) How many hours you blocked: no idea
8) How many hours did you credit: 1,158.16 (Couple pp, couple 4-days bought)
9) Expected gross income: $181,705.01
10) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.): PS--$19,587.85; DC--$29,432.81; PD--$7196.83

RJSAviator76
12-31-2017, 04:58 PM
I donít think adding perdiem and NEC (B-fund) to the total is kosher. I canít touch the retirement money. For all I know itíll end up being spent by my wife if I keel over at 64.5. And per diem is supposed to be for travel expenses like food.

Let the base pay numbers speak for themselves. You busted your rear end doing SWA flying for 900+ hours. I only did around 770 and I canít imagine doing much more than that! You flew the equivalent of more than a month more than I did! [emoji33] and more than 3 months worth more than the 787 guy a little further up the thread.

To each his own. To me though, the name of the game is ďhe who makes most by working least winsĒ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed. I also don't count per diem or retirement as income. I just followed the format of the guy that posted before me. 900 hours made me lazy on NYE! ;)

But yep... I worked hard alright. Planning on flying around 800 hours in 2018. We'll see what the totals bring next NYE.

Happy New Year!

e6bpilot
12-31-2017, 05:03 PM
SWA 3/4 FO
Commuter
770 block
$207,416 Pay
$27,713 B fund
I donít remember how much profit sharing but a good chunk.
1 pair of socks
A bunch of SWAG points
Some stale peanuts
I think I average about 14-15 days a month working, but I donít want to do math to figure it out.
My wife seems happy.

Varks
12-31-2017, 05:44 PM
AA narrow body Captain
12+ year pay
313000 including per diem and profit sharing. plus 36K into 401k
4 months reserve 73 hr pay per month 8 months line holding
623 hours flown
Worked way too many days. Averaged about 17 days plus many commutes on days off
Commuter
No voluntary overtime. Sometimes they make you do it.
3 weeks vacation
30 hours unused sick paid out
I rarely trip trade.

Aero1900
12-31-2017, 08:40 PM
Frontier Airlines
4th/5th year FO
Pretty much fly the minimum each month. 70 credit, block usually in the 60s.
Usually 17 or 18 days off a month
$75,000

No profit sharing or free socks

Rsv4lyfe
12-31-2017, 09:02 PM
Any FedEx'ers?

80ktsClamp
12-31-2017, 09:24 PM
Any FedEx'ers?

Let them come up for a breath after swimming like Scrooge McDuck swimming in his money silo.

Andy
01-01-2018, 03:58 AM
To each his own. To me though, the name of the game is ďhe who makes most by working least winsĒ


Longhaul widebody flying is the holy grail of working least for the most money.

There are a couple of cautions:
1) You have to be able to sleep in the bunks. If you can't, longhaul flying is torture.
2) You want to be able to easily adjust your body clock to different time zones. If you can't it makes the job less desirable.

CantStayAway
01-01-2018, 05:16 AM
Frontier Airlines
1st/2nd year pay (mostly 2nd)
Commuter
Average 13-14 days off a month
Blocked 690 hours in 2017

I don't spend most of my per diem on food so I count it. As for 401k, even though I can't spend it today it's definitely compensation but I'll post with and without both...

$68,495 without per diem, 401k match, or company HSA contribution

+$3,400 matching
+$5,936 per diem
+$1,800 HSA contribution

$79,631


My apps are out...

LaunchMcQuack
01-01-2018, 05:58 AM
SWA.
F/O.
No more -300s and -500s.
Commuting line holder.
Worked 12 or less days per month.
Block 600.
Six figures. Does not include PD, PS, 401.
Never missed a family event.
First wife and know what my children look like.
2018 resolution is less block, more time with family, more money.

Imapilot2
01-01-2018, 06:07 AM
Delta
9yr
In base
NB FO 6 MONTHS/NB CA 6 MONTH'S
469 flown
255k gross
34k 401k from Company

I bid reserve to get all the days off I want then fly whatever they give me.

Dude320
01-01-2018, 06:31 AM
Frontier Capt
A320
10 years - Commuter
How many days you worked - too many
How many overnights you had - no clue, but crappy hotels
Blocked - 800 ish
Credited - 1290
Pay- $196,500
Perdiem - $6,700
DC from company - $11,800
PS - $0

Total Compensation - $215,000

I essentially make as a 10 year Captain, what a 2/3 year SWA / DL First Officer makes.... and I worked hard to gain such a high block/credit ratio.

My apps are also out...

ramalama
01-01-2018, 06:42 AM
1) Airline employer
2) Seat
3) Equipment
4) Years of Service with company
5) How many days you worked
6) How many overnights you had
7) How many hours you blocked
8) How many hours did you credit
9) Expected gross income
10) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.)

Found this organization on another thread... sorry, my OCD got the best of me.

Allegiant
CA
A320
12+ years
158 flight days worked (plus unused mixed reserve days not included)
NO overnights
978 hours blocked
397290 Gross plus
17k profit share
36000 401k match

Do I expect to repeat that? No. But it was my personal best! :D

airtim6
01-01-2018, 06:48 AM
Jetblue 2nd year FO Airbus
$98,000 Gross + $4200 per diem
505 HRs of Block with average 80-85 hours credit/month.
Non commuting line Holder

MoonShot
01-01-2018, 07:00 AM
Delta
6 months 7ER FO, 6 months M88 CA
9/10 year pay
155 days gone from home (includes any commute days)
605 block
1016 pay
$216,900
$ 31,000 profit sharing and shared rewards
$ 36,000 company retirement contribution
$ 7,700 per diem
$291,600 total I suppose

Commuter. Did a few green slips as an FO.

TurbineDriver
01-01-2018, 07:10 AM
DELTA
2/3 year pay
600 Block
$205k
$33k 401k


Just curious what airplane? Any greenslips? Reg/reserve?

biigD
01-01-2018, 07:21 AM
AA
Year 3 and 4 narrowbody FO
In base lineholder, averaging about 15 days per month. Don't pick anything up or do the premium thing, although I might sometimes trade into a trip that's more efficient. Generally though - I just fly my line.

Gross W2, including per diem and our meager profit sharing:
$194K
401(k):
$30K

So about $224K all in.

Crown
01-01-2018, 08:06 AM
Delta
FO
737
1-2 year (mostly 1 year)
Commuter
672 hours flown
Gross was 105K (94K for flight time)
Per diem was 6300
I sat reserve for 5 months of the year
401K contribution 15,600

Total compensation (gross pay, 401K, and medical contribution): 135K

NJAXRated
01-01-2018, 09:37 AM
NetJets

FO

CL-650

12/13 year pay, still can't hold PIC

184 days worked after vacation, PTO and sick time.

460 hours flown

146k including 7.8k per diem

9.2k company 401K contribution (this is our max [emoji852]).

Company paid health insurance is worth about another 5k a year for the wife and I

Always on company paid tickets to and from work which I would value in the 15k range if I was commuting and buying my own tickets

Total 175k

Sliceback
01-01-2018, 09:52 AM
NetJets

FO

CL-650

12/13 year pay, still can't hold PIC

184 days worked after vacation, PTO and sick time.

460 hours flown

146k including 7.8k per diem

9.2k company 401K contribution (this is our max [emoji852]).

Company paid health insurance is worth about another 5k a year for the wife and I

Always on company paid tickets to and from work which I would value in the 15k range if I was commuting and buying my own tickets

Total 175k

Without the commuting Ďincreaseí itís $160K.

My airline commuting cost was probaly $1-2K per year. Hotels before, after, or between trips.

Andrew_VT
01-01-2018, 10:14 AM
AA narrow body Captain
12+ year pay
313000 including per diem and profit sharing. plus 36K into 401k
4 months reserve 73 hr pay per month 8 months line holding
623 hours flown
Worked way too many days. Averaged about 17 days plus many commutes on days off
Commuter
No voluntary overtime. Sometimes they make you do it.
3 weeks vacation
30 hours unused sick paid out
I rarely trip trade.

If the company put 36k into your 401k at 16%DC that means your W-2 gross was 225k. How the heck do you get to 313k with per diem and our measly profit sharing?

MadHund
01-01-2018, 10:20 AM
Allegiant
3yr FO
850 Block hrs
< Dozen Overnights
207,000 Gross
-includes 11,600 per diem,
10,500 hotel option,
7,800 profit sharing
17,000 401k Match

Total Comp approx 227,000 incl ESPP:cool:

*live in base and aggressively worked towards lowering my personal debt ceiling ;)

trip
01-01-2018, 12:07 PM
Allegiant
3yr FO
850 Block hrs
< Dozen Overnights
207,000 Gross
-includes 11,600 per diem,
10,500 hotel option,
7,800 profit sharing
17,000 401k Match

Total Comp approx 227,000 incl ESPP:cool:

*live in base and aggressively worked towards lowering my personal debt ceiling ;)

How do you get 11.6k per diem flying locals?
What's 10.5k hotel?
And how do you get 17k company contribution into your 401 when 18 was the IRS max?

Just curious?

Chakerik
01-01-2018, 12:17 PM
Delta
320 FO Sim IP (1 month), 330 FO (9 months), 320 CA (last 2 months)
11th year
669 block hours
295,000 including 8800 in 401k DC cash
36,000 DC contribution from company

(I live in base, but didn't get any premium trips this year... unless the phone rings in the next few hours. :D )
Did you enjoy the a330 and it's trips?

flakester
01-01-2018, 12:33 PM
Posting for the guy I just flew with.

SWA CA 12 year pay

781 block hours

$ 422,815

This does not include B Fund, profit sharing or per diem.

TurbineDriver
01-01-2018, 12:41 PM
Posting for the guy I just flew with.

SWA CA 12 year pay

781 block hours

$ 422,815

This does not include B Fund, profit sharing or per diem.

How is this possible?

flakester
01-01-2018, 12:48 PM
Lots and lots of premium pay (1 1/2) - it's legit, I saw the final 2017 pay stub. It actually said $ 470,000, but part of that was profit sharing from the previous year paid out in April.

9easy
01-01-2018, 01:04 PM
How do you get 11.6k per diem flying locals?
What's 10.5k hotel?
And how do you get 17k company contribution into your 401 when 18 was the IRS max?

Just curious?

G4 has a variable/TDY base option, if you don't want the company hotel you get 50% of the hotel cost instead.

18k is the personal contribution limit, not the total limit.

Senior FO's at Allegiant can make a lot of money getting bought off for IOE and flying 200%, it's easily more than junior rsv CAs get.

9easy
01-01-2018, 01:08 PM
Allegiant year 3 CA
$162k +$13k 401k match
Flew 230 block (often go a few weeks without flying)
3 layovers for the year, which were unscheduled MX

Cloud5urfer
01-01-2018, 02:09 PM
1) JetBlue
2) FO
3) E190
4) 3 mo @ year 1, 9 mo @ year 2
5) ~160 days worked (commuter)
6) ~130 overnights (150 nights away from home)
7) ~600 block
8) ~920 credit
9) ~$79,000 gross
10) $4,200 PS carryover from year 1, ~$14,000 in DC, $5,260 PD, $1,250 in CSPP profits (15% discount on shares sold immediately)

Total Comp: ~$103,700

I do not pick up trips, only trade into more profitable ones. Some months had trips dropped unpaid. No PTO sellback. Most holidays were worked with high block @ 200% credit.

OHPilot213
01-01-2018, 02:26 PM
Frontier A320 FO, 6 months 2nd year / 6 months 3rd year pay, Live in Base
$89,300 + $4,400 (401k Contributions from F9) = $93,700
1,257 Credit Hours, 811 Block Hours
167 days off
Not included in above numbers: $7,000 in Per Diem and $480 in Uniform Cleaning Reimbursement
Total Compensation including PD, Uniform, and 401k = $101,180

CA James McGill
01-01-2018, 02:35 PM
1) SWA
2) FO
3) B737
4) 9 mo @ year 1,
5) ~130 days worked (1.5 months in school house)
6) ~107 overnights
7) ~440 block
8) ~998 credit
9) ~$68,862 gross
10) $0 Profit Sharing, ~$9500 in DC, $3,900 PerDiem and pay $0 for health insurance

Total Comp: ~$82,226 or ($109,000 over 12 month period)

I do not pick up trips or open time. I have kids at home and try to spend as much time there as possible.

dashdriver44
01-01-2018, 03:14 PM
Just curious what airplane? Any greenslips? Reg/reserve?

88B and line holder except the two months I bid reserve. Live local and approx 10 GS for the year.

okawner
01-01-2018, 04:53 PM
UAL 73 FO
Year 2/3 exactly half of each
920 credit
129K wages only (no DC, PD, PS, etc)
360 block
Worked about 70-75 days (not counting reserve)

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

MadHund
01-01-2018, 05:08 PM
How do you get 11.6k per diem flying locals?
What's 10.5k hotel?
And how do you get 17k company contribution into your 401 when 18 was the IRS max?

Just curious?
Just as 9easy said, I was VBD and wanted to put those numbers in for perspective. The 17k is what company put in to my 401k, not including my portion.

Csy Mon
01-01-2018, 05:17 PM
Longhaul widebody flying is the holy grail of working least for the most money.

There are a couple of cautions:
1) You have to be able to sleep in the bunks. If you can't, longhaul flying is torture.
2) You want to be able to easily adjust your body clock to different time zones. If you can't it makes the job less desirable.

That there is the truth.
Did longhaul for years and years, always tired. Started doing short turns (2 hrs each way) money be damned. Health and happiness is better.

Smokey23
01-01-2018, 05:43 PM
Posting for the guy I just flew with.

SWA CA 12 year pay

781 block hours

$ 422,815

This does not include B Fund, profit sharing or per diem.

At the other end, real-world numbers for a dude that just flies his line:

<~~~SWA CA 12 year pay

731 block hours

$277,570

This also does not include B Fund, profit sharing or per diem

Worked 146 days (all straight time)

What can I say...I'm lazy! :cool:

biigD
01-01-2018, 06:02 PM
]
What can I say...I'm lazy! :cool:

Gotta say I love it. I respect you a hell of a lot more than the other guy. :)

TRZ06
01-01-2018, 06:18 PM
That there is the truth.
Did longhaul for years and years, always tired. Started doing short turns (2 hrs each way) money be damned. Health and happiness is better.

Well generally. Is NY to Europe longhaul? 7-9 hours is fairly close to transcons. Certainly NY to South America at 10-12 hours is IMO.

In any case 34th year 777 capt with AA doing the short international stuff 80 hrs pay credit per month average (almost all hard time) with lots of sit-time away from base 337K for 2017. Again, 15-18 days on per month leaving early to late evening returning either afternoon to late evening on third day always an all-nighter eastbound. Half of them 2 man crews and the other half 3 man crews. Still tired and not even 60 yet so it does take its toll. By the looks of it other guys
dont do much better :D

RJSAviator76
01-01-2018, 06:23 PM
Posting for the guy I just flew with.

SWA CA 12 year pay

781 block hours

$ 422,815

This does not include B Fund, profit sharing or per diem.

At the other end, real-world numbers for a dude that just flies his line:

<~~~SWA CA 12 year pay

731 block hours

$277,570

This also does not include B Fund, profit sharing or per diem

Worked 146 days (all straight time)

What can I say...I'm lazy! :cool:

50 hours difference in block flown for $145k difference in pay... wow!

hockeypilot44
01-01-2018, 06:37 PM
Delta 737 commuter on 10th year pay.

Made just under 200k. Pretty pathetic considering my hourly rate is over $180 an hour and profit sharing adds over 15 percent to that. Itís what happens when you are a commuter in an over-staffed category. 70 hour months become the norm again. Even reserves average 75 hours.

Smokey23
01-01-2018, 06:53 PM
50 hours difference in block flown for $145k difference in pay... wow!

Works out to just about 1.5, doesn't it? ;)

BarrySeal
01-01-2018, 07:18 PM
787 FO which, as Gen Lee would say, means that I get paid while sleeping. :D

blast from the past. where did he disappear to ? probably still telling SWA dudes how DAL rules, etc ?

80ktsClamp
01-01-2018, 07:23 PM
Did you enjoy the a330 and it's trips?

Very yes! Loved the plane... loved the mission. There is no way to not have a smile on your face when youíre heading to a 24 hr HNL, BCN, or you name it layover! Iím glad I skipped out before Africa started again. :D I plan on being back on it in the left seat at first availability.

Larry in TN
01-01-2018, 07:50 PM
blast from the past. where did he disappear to ?
I think he's on vacation in Lubbock!

FmrPropCapt
01-01-2018, 08:06 PM
blast from the past. where did he disappear to ? probably still telling SWA dudes how DAL rules, etc ?

Wow... man I grew up reading his posts on that other board now Iíve been 121 for over ten years. Getting old over here.

FmrPropCapt
01-01-2018, 08:07 PM
I think he's on vacation in Lubbock!

Spit my beer out when I saw that

akulahunter
01-01-2018, 09:20 PM
G4
A320/FO
1 (2 months of sits/sims, with a splash of 2nd year pay)
live in base, bottom of the list
<100 days worked (flying) - composite lines, no reserve lines
1 overnight (unscheduled mx)
~485 block
~900 credit
~$58,500 gross from flying/vacation
~$4750 401k match, ~$2750 PD, ~$1800 PS

I enjoy being home and with my family. I don't pick up out of base, bid VBD or into bases where I would be much more senior (relatively). If you want to chase money (i.e. VBD or commuting to a base with good relative seniority) it is possible to get a lot higher than that, but ~70,000 in total compensation year one for being home every night isn't terrible...

BunkerF16
01-02-2018, 04:50 AM
JetBlue
320 FO
Commuter
Maxed out at 12 year pay scale
$318,470 (Includes $22,989 in PS)
Does not include 401K company contributions (convoluted due to Mil Leave catch up contributions from earlier years)
I do sell back PTO which is included in final numbers
18+ days off a month on average
795 Block

LoneStarM1A
01-02-2018, 05:21 AM
Atlas 767 CA
7th yr
350 block
Average 16 days away and 65 hours credit per month.

130k. Sad. Depressing. Might be the lowest paid widebody captain on planet earth. Trying to get out.

capt707
01-02-2018, 05:30 AM
BlueJet
Airbus FO
Mostly 2nd yr/3rd yr Pay
Commuter, bid min credit/commutable trips
No Open time pickups, No RSA/VDA/etc.
~700 Block
-97k (Regular, Junior Assign, Holiday Pay, Night Override)
-12k (PTO/Vacation, Electronic Learning, PTO sellback)
-6k (Profit Share)
Total 115k + 5k (Per Diem)

1000+ Days of negotiations! Contract Now!!

Chakerik
01-02-2018, 06:13 AM
Very yes! Loved the plane... loved the mission. There is no way to not have a smile on your face when youíre heading to a 24 hr HNL, BCN, or you name it layover! Iím glad I skipped out before Africa started again. :D I plan on being back on it in the left seat at first availability.

That's comforting to hear. Long term I like the idea of that airplane and the trips it does, so when I saw you were on it for 9 months it made me wonder if there was something not so good about it! Seems like a great gig.

Sunfish FAIP
01-02-2018, 06:15 AM
Works out to just about 1.5, doesn't it? ;)

He must be cartel material!

flyguy81
01-02-2018, 06:23 AM
SWA FO 2nd yr
173 days worked (15-16 day off avg)
920 block
Live in base so a OT trip or 2 a month
$160k gross ($7,200 of that is per diem)
~1500 tfp credit
$11,500 profit sharing
$21k B fund
Total comp $192,500

BeatNavy
01-02-2018, 07:20 AM
JetBlue
320 FO
Commuter
Maxed out at 12 year pay scale
$318,470 (Includes $22,989 in PS)
Does not include 401K company contributions (convoluted due to Mil Leave catch up contributions from earlier years)
I do sell back PTO which is included in final numbers
18+ days off a month on average
795 Block

I question if your 18 days off a month on your initial award or if itís how much you actually take off and are at the house, and how much RSA/VDA that includes. The math doesnít work out for me. I know a lot of your trips get bought for IOE, but it isnít very easy to double dip over that timeframe here...and then you are picking up average/not that great trips from opentime after your initial good schedule gets bought.

At $149/hour working 12 days a month, or 144 days a year, how do you credit enough to make over $300k? Even if you got every 10x 8 hour day trip bought a month and came in on other days picking up average 5hr/day trips, thatís impossible. 80x12=960 theoretical max hours bought, or $143k...and thatís assuming every one of your trips gets bought. Youíre saying you then pick up $160k worth of trips only working 12 days a month? Thatís another 1,073 hours of credit at your pay rate, from open time. If youíre selling back 10 hrs a month of PTO (btw thatís not compensation, it's your vacation and sick time), then you still need 917 hours of credit to hit your $300k, or 70-75 hours a month, from the opentime scraps. Hereís my math based on what little I know about your schedule/pay, making the wild assumption that every single awarded trip is a bought 8hr day trip.

$300,000/$149=~2,000 hours of credit per year.
80hrs x 12 months = 960 hours of max bought credit. Call it 1,000.
PTOSB/vac at 10/month = 180 hrs
820/12=~70 hours a month you then credit from opentime. At 5 hrs a day thatís working 14 days, at 6 a day thatís 11 days. It is rarely feasible to count on 6+ hour average days from opentime. And itís hardly believable that every single one of your trips gets bought. So where is the extra credit coming from?

To non-JB pilots, pay no attention to this data point. This is an outlier among outliers, and Iím no viper pilot, but I canít make the math work. Bunk makes $149/hour with substandard work rules. I donít know any other JetBlue pilot who credits anywhere near the amount required to make $320k on $149/hr, even senior FOs who bid with check airmen, and certainly no commuters who get 18 days at the house. Only RSA/VDA hoors who live in base and are on crew services speeddial can predictably and consistently get premium/JRA credit to credit anywhere near that.

Adlerdriver
01-02-2018, 07:22 AM
1) FedEx
2) FO
3) 777
4) Years of Service with company - 12 years
5) How many days you worked - 143 days
6) How many overnights you had - commuter, so pretty much the same, 143
7) How many hours you blocked - 462
8) How many hours did you credit - 1288.5
9) Expected gross income - $272,270
10) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.) - B-Fund(401K) - $26,101

Bluedriver
01-02-2018, 07:45 AM
JetBlue
320 FO
Commuter
Maxed out at 12 year pay scale
$318,470 (Includes $22,989 in PS)
Does not include 401K company contributions (convoluted due to Mil Leave catch up contributions from earlier years)
I do sell back PTO which is included in final numbers
18+ days off a month on average
795 Block

There's something he's not telling us. Probably gets a lot of check airmen trips bought and double dips. Max FO here is only 149 per hour.

Bluedriver
01-02-2018, 07:51 AM
I question if your 18 days off a month on your initial award or if itís how much you actually take off and are at the house, and how much RSA/VDA that includes. The math doesnít work out for me. I know a lot of your trips get bought for IOE, but it isnít very easy to double dip over that timeframe here...and then you are picking up average/not that great trips from opentime after your initial good schedule gets bought.

At $149/hour working 12 days a month, or 144 days a year, how do you credit enough to make over $300k? Even if you got every 10x 8 hour day trip bought a month and came in on other days picking up average 5hr/day trips, thatís impossible. 80x12=960 theoretical max hours bought, or $143k...and thatís assuming every one of your trips gets bought. Youíre saying you then pick up $160k worth of trips only working 12 days a month? Thatís another 1,073 hours of credit at your pay rate, from open time. If youíre selling back 10 hrs a month of PTO (btw thatís not compensation, it's your vacation and sick time), then you still need 917 hours of credit to hit your $300k, or 70-75 hours a month, from the opentime scraps. Hereís my math based on what little I know about your schedule/pay, making the wild assumption that every single awarded trip is a bought 8hr day trip.

$300,000/$149=~2,000 hours of credit per year.
80hrs x 12 months = 960 hours of max bought credit. Call it 1,000.
PTOSB/vac at 10/month = 180 hrs
820/12=~70 hours a month you then credit from opentime. At 5 hrs a day thatís working 14 days, at 6 a day thatís 11 days. It is rarely feasible to count on 6+ hour average days from opentime. And itís hardly believable that every single one of your trips gets bought. So where is the extra credit coming from?

To non-JB pilots, pay no attention to this data point. This is an outlier among outliers, and Iím no viper pilot, but I canít make the math work. Bunk makes $149/hour with substandard work rules. I donít know any other JetBlue pilot who credits anywhere near the amount required to make $320k on $149/hr, even senior FOs who bid with check airmen, and certainly no commuters who get 18 days at the house. Only RSA/VDA hoors who live in base and are on crew services speeddial can predictably and consistently get premium/JRA credit to credit anywhere near that.

No kidding! There is so much he's not telling everyone.

1. Check Airmen trip drops.

2. Picking up Reserve days for premium pay and not counting them as work days.

3. Selling back all his Vacation and Sick time!

And more I'm sure.

Totally absurd.

biigD
01-02-2018, 07:56 AM
Yeah, this thread isn't about trying to impress chicks at a bar. IMO this thread is about trying to raise the bar industrywide, and providing data points for those out there fighting for a better contract (which should be all of us!). If you're an outlier in a group, you're doing everyone a disservice if you post your income without some sort of context as to why it's as high as it is.

OldFlyGuy
01-02-2018, 07:59 AM
what does floan mean?

It means hopefully he does well on the other parts of the interview exam. OFG

Smokey23
01-02-2018, 08:07 AM
The use of heel lifts and fish rulers by some are inevitable any time this thread gets started. :rolleyes:

RandomPerson
01-02-2018, 08:08 AM
Yeah, this thread isn't about trying to impress chicks at a bar. IMO this thread is about trying to raise the bar industrywide, and providing data points for those out there fighting for a better contract (which should be all of us!). If you're an outlier in a group, you're doing everyone a disservice if you post your income without some sort of context as to why it's as high as it is.

Or in some cases trying to educate people on the low pay and to stay away.

Aero1900
01-02-2018, 08:13 AM
This thread would certainly be more beneficial if it didn't include ridiculous statistical outliers.

Thanks to everyone who has posted. It's been eye opening for sure.

BunkerF16
01-02-2018, 08:17 AM
I question if your 18 days off a month on your initial award or if it’s how much you actually take off and are at the house, and how much RSA/VDA that includes. The math doesn’t work out for me. I know a lot of your trips get bought for IOE, but it isn’t very easy to double dip over that timeframe here...and then you are picking up average/not that great trips from opentime after your initial good schedule gets bought.

At $149/hour working 12 days a month, or 144 days a year, how do you credit enough to make over $300k? Even if you got every 10x 8 hour day trip bought a month and came in on other days picking up average 5hr/day trips, that’s impossible. 80x12=960 theoretical max hours bought, or $143k...and that’s assuming every one of your trips gets bought. You’re saying you then pick up $160k worth of trips only working 12 days a month? That’s another 1,073 hours of credit at your pay rate, from open time. If you’re selling back 10 hrs a month of PTO (btw that’s not compensation, it's your vacation and sick time), then you still need 917 hours of credit to hit your $300k, or 70-75 hours a month, from the opentime scraps. Here’s my math based on what little I know about your schedule/pay, making the wild assumption that every single awarded trip is a bought 8hr day trip.

$300,000/$149=~2,000 hours of credit per year.
80hrs x 12 months = 960 hours of max bought credit. Call it 1,000.
PTOSB/vac at 10/month = 180 hrs
820/12=~70 hours a month you then credit from opentime. At 5 hrs a day that’s working 14 days, at 6 a day that’s 11 days. It is rarely feasible to count on 6+ hour average days from opentime. And it’s hardly believable that every single one of your trips gets bought. So where is the extra credit coming from?

To non-JB pilots, pay no attention to this data point. This is an outlier among outliers, and I’m no viper pilot, but I can’t make the math work. Bunk makes $149/hour with substandard work rules. I don’t know any other JetBlue pilot who credits anywhere near the amount required to make $320k on $149/hr, even senior FOs who bid with check airmen, and certainly no commuters who get 18 days at the house. Only RSA/VDA hoors who live in base and are on crew services speeddial can predictably and consistently get premium/JRA credit to credit anywhere near that.

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware I was suppose to qualify my post. Am I senior in base at my position. Yes, I am. Does that allow me to double-dip and get days off that others junior to me may not be able to do? Probably. I know of a few who are close to my range (320 FOs) and one or two or higher than me. So while I may be "statistical" data point, I'm not by myself.

There are plenty of posts under the JetBlue file where you and BD can make sure to "educate" why JetBlue isn't the place you want them to be.

And for the record, I've NEVER picked up a VDA.

OldFlyGuy
01-02-2018, 08:18 AM
Agreed. I also don't count per diem or retirement as income. I just followed the format of the guy that posted before me. 900 hours made me lazy on NYE! ;)

But yep... I worked hard alright. Planning on flying around 800 hours in 2018. We'll see what the totals bring next NYE.

Happy New Year!

I'm gonna disagree here. Since most of us fund our own retirements "B fund" money counts. Contribution % vary and some companies have caps. At DL flight pay and profit sharing are pensionable. If we hit the Federal limits on contributions we get the excess as cash: those $ count. Differences in per diem probably aren't going to make or break you. OFG

BeatNavy
01-02-2018, 08:25 AM
I'm sorry. I wasn't aware I was suppose to qualify my post. Am I senior in base at my position. Yes, I am. Does that allow me to double-dip and get days off that others junior to me may not be able to do? Probably.

There are plenty of posts under the JetBlue file where you and BD can make sure to "educate" why JetBlue isn't the place you want them to be.

And for the record, I've NEVER picked up a VDA.

I just want to know how you did it and how the math works out to $322k on $149/hour working only 150 days with our work rules, especially since double dipping is not very easy (ie not really being able to pick up over a bought day and getting the higher credits of the two trips). I wouldnít have dissected it and taken (a lot of) my time to do the math on here if I wasnít genuinely curious. This thread is supposed to be educational/comparative. Having that data is important since itís such an outlier (but theoretically possible if you did it). So, can you shed light on your strategy/math to make 150 days of work turn into 2,000 hours of credit?

Bluedriver
01-02-2018, 08:36 AM
I'm sorry. I wasn't aware I was suppose to qualify my post. Am I senior in base at my position. Yes, I am. Does that allow me to double-dip and get days off that others junior to me may not be able to do? Probably. I know of a few who are close to my range (320 FOs) and one or two or higher than me. So while I may be "statistical" data point, I'm not by myself.

There are plenty of posts under the JetBlue file where you and BD can make sure to "educate" why JetBlue isn't the place you want them to be.

And for the record, I've NEVER picked up a VDA.

How about RSA?

Besides, you forgot to tell everyone you sold back all your vacation and sick time for the year and just how much of an outlier you are. Or that you are a double Dipper with check airmen.

All of those things are VERY important context that you conveniently left out and adds lots of "color" as to why you defend JetBlue Airways in the JB section.

Some of us are VERY angry about our crap pay and years of negotiations. Don't try to minimize us because you have a VERY special situation going.

BunkerF16
01-02-2018, 08:51 AM
I just want to know how you did it and how the math works out to $322k on $149/hour working only 150 days with our work rules, especially since double dipping is not very easy (ie not really being able to pick up over a bought day and getting the higher credits of the two trips). I wouldnít have dissected it and taken (a lot of) my time to do the math on here if I wasnít genuinely curious. This thread is supposed to be educational/comparative. Having that data is important since itís such an outlier (but theoretically possible if you did it). So, can you shed light on your strategy/math to make 150 days of work turn into 2,000 hours of credit?

Fair enough.

I bid CKA about 90% of my line, the other 10% I bid trips with soft time (SAN, SEA, AUA, CUN, etc).

I get 50-60% of my CKA trips bought. So on a month that I had an original bid of say 85 hours, with 18-19 days off, if I chose not to fly, that would end up being 3-4 days of flying with up to 25-26 days off. I then "double-dip" and pick up trips that fall into open time...usually the IROP-type pairings that have high credit and lots of DH attached to them. (No, I'm not attached to FLICA, don't have multiple phones, I don't have a BOT, and I'm not part of a cartel, so no need to reply BD.)

I sell back my PTO so that's a little over $30,000 all by itself, I can bid around the days I want off to take vacation, or even bid to fly down/back to the location we're going.

This past year was a little higher than the previous 2. I had in the past averaged 65-70 hrs of block, 18 days off (this number is my baseline--one that drives the rest of my schedule), and around 130 hrs of credit. Selling back PTO drives that to 145 hrs of pay each month. This past year I had quite a few IROP-heavy months, so I was able to average the 66/145 (160 in pay)/18 I mentioned before.

Again, I'm not on an island by myself. I have a good buddy of mine who gets more trips bought than I do (his CKA are more desirable), but because his commute distance, he choose to take the time off. He parlays his trips bought into straight time off. He had to use his recurrent landings as his currency or he would have turned into a pumpkin.

The bottom line is, as you said, this is not a d1ck measuring contest, but just to see what guys can accomplish at different locations on different equipment.

Everyone will have the chance to be senior (at some level) where ever they may be--especially as an FO. I don't think it's a bad thing to put all information out there, no matter where data point sits on the diagram.

BunkerF16
01-02-2018, 08:52 AM
How about RSA?

Besides, you forgot to tell everyone you sold back all your vacation and sick time for the year and just how much of an outlier you are. Or that you are a double Dipper with check airmen.

All of those things are VERY important context that you conveniently left out and adds lots of "color" as to why you defend JetBlue Airways in the JB section.

Some of us are VERY angry about our crap pay and years of negotiations. Don't try to minimize us because you have a VERY special situation going.

BD. Keep your JB hating to the JB board. Your act is tiring.

BeatNavy
01-02-2018, 08:52 AM
How about RSA?

Besides, you forgot to tell everyone you sold back all your vacation and sick time for the year and just how much of an outlier you are. Or that you are a double Dipper with check airmen.

All of those things are VERY important context that you conveniently left out and adds lots of "color" as to why you defend JetBlue Airways in the JB section.

Some of us are VERY angry about our crap pay and years of negotiations. Don't try to minimize us because you have a VERY special situation going.

Not to bag on Bunk, because I like him in person, but if I was on mil leave for 13 years, missed most/all of years 1-12 pay and not being the top dude in my base/seat, came back from leave to $300k as the top dude in the right seat hand picking bought trips, plus a military pension and retired military medical (not having to pay JetBlueís outrageous medical costs), with 18 days off a month, I probably wouldnít be jaded and would have the same great outlook of JetBlue as he does. He never really experienced NOT being in the top percent. I commend him for his service and sacrifice, his getting lucky with his timing and his mil leave, and his ability to spend time with and provide for his family. I wish all jetblue pilots had that ability, and from our perspective here, our experiences have been vastly different than his.

BeatNavy
01-02-2018, 08:57 AM
Fair enough.

I bid CKA about 90% of my line, the other 10% I bid trips with soft time (SAN, SEA, AUA, CUN, etc).

I get 50-60% of my CKA trips bought. So on a month that I had an original bid of say 85 hours, with 18-19 days off, if I chose not to fly, that would end up being 3-4 days of flying with up to 25-26 days off. I then "double-dip" and pick up trips that fall into open time...usually the IROP-type pairings that have high credit and lots of DH attached to them. (No, I'm not attached to FLICA, don't have multiple phones, I don't have a BOT, and I'm not part of a cartel, so no need to reply BD.)

I sell back my PTO so that's a little over $30,000 all by itself, I can bid around the days I want off to take vacation, or even bid to fly down/back to the location we're going.

This past year was a little higher than the previous 2. I had in the past averaged 65-70 hrs of block, 18 days off (this number is my baseline--one that drives the rest of my schedule), and around 130 hrs of credit. Selling back PTO drives that to 145 hrs of pay each month. This past year I had quite a few IROP-heavy months, so I was able to average the 66/145 (160 in pay)/18 I mentioned before.

Again, I'm not on an island by myself. I have a good buddy of mine who gets more trips bought than I do (his CKA are more desirable), but because his commute distance, he choose to take the time off. He parlays his trips bought into straight time off. He had to use his recurrent landings as his currency or he would have turned into a pumpkin.

The bottom line is, as you said, this is not a d1ck measuring contest, but just to see what guys can accomplish at different locations on different equipment.

Everyone will have the chance to be senior (at some level) where ever they may be--especially as an FO. I don't think it's a bad thing to put all information out there, no matter where data point sits on the diagram.

Thanks for the additional data. Hopefully I can have a schedule and W2 as prosperous and productive as yours at some point.

Hubble15
01-02-2018, 09:09 AM
1) AA
2) FO
3) 767
4) 3rd & 4th year
5) 100 days worked
6) <50 nites in hotels
7) 400 hours block
8) 920ish hours credit (reserve guarantee, plus a little OG)
9) $155K (includes per diem)
10) 401k DC, $25K; PS, $4.5K, total about $185K

Very junior. Mostly short-call reserve in base with one month holding a line and 2 months long-call. Averaged 22 days off per month and about 33 hours worked. Not a bad work to pay ratio, but I'm going over to the 320 this year so I can control my schedule better. I'd stay if there was any prospect of gaining seniority on the 76.

Qotsaautopilot
01-02-2018, 09:19 AM
For the Jetblue pilots:

I understand that your PTO is a vacation/sick combo. Does this incentivize guys to fly sick? If someone is selling back all their PTO at a premium are they a super human that doesn’t get sick or is there another bank for sick time?

BunkerF16
01-02-2018, 09:22 AM
Not to bag on Bunk, because I like him in person, but if I was on mil leave for 13 years, missed most/all of years 1-12 pay and not being the top dude in my base/seat, came back from leave to $300k as the top dude in the right seat hand picking bought trips, plus a military pension and retired military medical (not having to pay JetBlueís outrageous medical costs), with 18 days off a month, I probably wouldnít be jaded and would have the same great outlook of JetBlue as he does. He never really experienced NOT being in the top percent. I commend him for his service and sacrifice, his getting lucky with his timing and his mil leave, and his ability to spend time with and provide for his family. I wish all jetblue pilots had that ability, and from our perspective here, our experiences have been vastly different than his.

Hey...check your PMs.

I can't argue with anything you said. I was gone for several years. I am retired military. I always said that I'm thankful for the lucky timing I fell into, having nothing to do with skill or intelligence. And I too wish all JB pilots significantly increase their $ and QOL with a market rate contract. And soon!

Now, back to the OP's original topic.....I'll gladly continue to debate JB stuff on our own board....

BunkerF16
01-02-2018, 09:26 AM
For the Jetblue pilots:

I understand that your PTO is a vacation/sick combo. Does this incentivize guys to fly sick? If someone is selling back all their PTO at a premium are they a super human that doesnít get sick or is there another bank for sick time?

Unfortunately yes, it does.

You do have the ability to take UTS, which is unpaid sick time. So you won't get paid for that pairing you drop. What guys who have enough PTO will do, is UTS, then sell back the PTO to make up for that trip.

For instance, if you're dropping a FL turn that's worth 6 hours. Guys who have the PTO will UTS that trip, then they can sell back 4 hours of PTO.

That way they will only get 4 hours of PTO taken out of their bank (paying 6 hrs--equal to that dropped trip) as opposed to taking PTS (paid sick time) where they'd have to use 6 hours of PTO.

Does that make sense?

Bluedriver
01-02-2018, 09:54 AM
BD. Keep your JB hating to the JB board. Your act is tiring.

Take your JetBlue defending and shove it up your rear. You have it great here, the rest of us don't and the rest of this industry is sick and tired of us dragging down the professional average compensation for major airline pilots.

Is that clear enough?

BunkerF16
01-02-2018, 10:05 AM
Take your JetBlue defending and shove it up your rear. You have it great here, the rest of us don't and the rest of this industry is sick and tired of us dragging down the professional average compensation for major airline pilots.

Is that clear enough?

What's clear is you're an angry little troll who's only job is to make sure everyone is as pi$$ed off as you. I wasn't advocating or defending anyone or anything on this thread. It was YOU who attacked. Again, your act is old, tiring and pathetic.

Feel free to respond to me on the JB board or send me a PM so you don't keep clouding up this thread.

Or, if you have the balls, come tell me about your anger to me face to face at the picketing event. I'll be one of the organizers.

Bluedriver
01-02-2018, 10:13 AM
I'm sorry you don't like me telling the true reality for most of us here right now.

Qotsaautopilot
01-02-2018, 11:15 AM
Unfortunately yes, it does.

You do have the ability to take UTS, which is unpaid sick time. So you won't get paid for that pairing you drop. What guys who have enough PTO will do, is UTS, then sell back the PTO to make up for that trip.

For instance, if you're dropping a FL turn that's worth 6 hours. Guys who have the PTO will UTS that trip, then they can sell back 4 hours of PTO.

That way they will only get 4 hours of PTO taken out of their bank (paying 6 hrs--equal to that dropped trip) as opposed to taking PTS (paid sick time) where they'd have to use 6 hours of PTO.

Does that make sense?

Yes thanks

SlipKid
01-02-2018, 11:40 AM
SWA 12 year Capt

102 days worked (plus a few sick calls)

520 hours block

$315k gross pay, plus retirement etc.

No socks.....

Sparta
01-02-2018, 12:11 PM
Ual 737 Capt. 12+ years (40% seniority in base)
$328,969 gross (includes 34K profit sharing)
46k B fund contributions by company
Total Compensation 375k
116 days worked (reserve for 4 months with low time)
560 hours block
If I lived in a trailer in the employee parking lot I could be in the 500 club...

FlyingOkra
01-02-2018, 12:31 PM
Any FedEx'ers?

Not a great sample, but itíll provide some insight for potential New Hires.

1) FedEx
2) FO
3) 767
4) 1st year
5) Overnights - Not accurate measure
6) Days Worked - Not accurate measure
7) 511 Block (includes Training Sim time)
8) Credit N/A due 4 months Training Pay ($4,000/month)
9) Gross Pay - $93,000 (FedEx $75,600 / Spirit $17,550)
10) 401k DC or Match - $7,600 (FedEx $6,000 / Spirit $1,600)

*Live in Base
*2 Months income from Spirit
*4 Months Training Pay @ FedEx
*1 Pair of Socks :D

e6bpilot
01-02-2018, 12:37 PM
SWA 12 year Capt

No socks.....



Iíll sell you mine!

n7715x
01-02-2018, 01:06 PM
UAL second year narrowbody FO
Reserve 8 months, rarely breaking guarantee
Lineholder 4 months, some premium pay
$123k regular pay
$8k per diem
$19,500 401k company contribution/B fund
No profit sharing since I wasn’t working all 365 days of 2016

$150,500 total compensation

Looking forward to third year pay and profit sharing.

Al Czervik
01-02-2018, 01:45 PM
This thread would certainly be more beneficial if it didn't include ridiculous statistical outliers.

Thanks to everyone who has posted. It's been eye opening for sure.

Youíre going to make the same (ballpark) at AA,DL, UAL, FX, UPS, SWA.

The big outliers are #1 when you want to work hard you can smoke the other guys paycheck by being at the right airline. #2 profit sharing.

Sparta
01-02-2018, 02:30 PM
Youíre going to make the same (ballpark) at AA,DL, UAL, FX, UPS, SWA.

The big outliers are #1 when you want to work hard you can smoke the other guys paycheck by being at the right airline. #2 profit sharing.

Very true statement regarding the "big four" px airlines and "big 2" cargo carriers but I would add a third outlier that is equally important: where one is on the seniority list and how rapidly one can move up it...

busdriver12
01-02-2018, 02:55 PM
FedEx
Capt
A300
20+ years, but mid level seniority for airplane
250 block (estimated)
320K gross
B fund contributions (about 21-22K)

I didn't work too much this year, and very little at time and a half. A lot of time off for traveling and family emergencies. I'd like to avoid the trauma this year and work a little more, instead.:(

I really wish we had profit sharing. I think most of the majors will easily surpass our pay with profit sharing payouts.

Ryan211
01-02-2018, 03:31 PM
UPS
FO
Domestic
Year 2/3
470 block
216K gross (includes per diem)
B fund 23.4K

StrykerB21
01-02-2018, 04:31 PM
This thread is terrible for my self esteem haha.

Caveman
01-02-2018, 04:39 PM
Did I miss it...No Alaska check ins yet???

Burton78
01-02-2018, 04:44 PM
Did I miss it...No Alaska check ins yet???



I've been curious about that as well.


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HAPPYTUG
01-02-2018, 04:57 PM
JETBLUE
E190 CA
JFK
COMMUTER
LINE HOLDER
HIRED 11/30/2011 (6 YEARS ON PROPERTY)
667 BLOCK HOURS FLOWN
116 DAYS GONE FROM HOME

$261,173.24 (Gross)
$31,463.17 401K Company direct contribution
TOTAL COMPENSATION: $292,636.41

GogglesPisano
01-02-2018, 05:23 PM
DAL 10-yr 717CA
$260K
Does not include per diem.
Does not include $43K in PS.
Does not include 16% DC contributions.
Drive to work.
Days at work? Too lazy to look (enough but not too much.)

Outdoors
01-02-2018, 06:04 PM
Did I miss it...No Alaska check ins yet???

Maybe too embarassed. Normal month line block is say 83+ and credits same as block (normally within an hour of each other). Line average is 14 days off, some lines down to 12 off which is what rsv is. So most likely they are blocking close to 900yr. Figure little to no soft time makes it easy to calculate. SW friends at similar relative seniority consistently do significantly better. Thatís why some 5 yr fos are even bailing to sw. Some CAs fly 1000 to max out their pension and on the ca side there is a lot of time and a half as the company relies on these guys to suck that 1.5 otherwise they end up canceling flights.

No profit sharing but a performance metric that may net you 6-12k likely covers most guys.

15% dc

pete2800
01-02-2018, 06:50 PM
Did I miss it...No Alaska check ins yet???

Here ya go, but since the old contract was in effect for 10 months, and I spent over half the year on first year pay, this isn't a great representation for what a person starting this year would experience.

Anyway.

- FO, 1st/2nd year pay. Over half 1st year, which was at 57/hour.
- Based at home, didn't pick up extra. Sometimes I traded for higher credit trips on the same days.
- On reserve about half the year, some of that was by choice.
- 76k base pay.
- 5k per diem.
- 10.5k 401k contribution.

$91.5k total.

Count Dracula
01-02-2018, 08:54 PM
UAL
FO NB
2nd Year
Reserve/Line Holder
$124K Gross
$6500 per diem
$20,300 401K Company B
No profit sharing, missed it by 16 days
Block Hours: 545
Very small premium p/u
Commuter



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Twin Wasp
01-02-2018, 08:59 PM
I'll play:

9 year Atlas 744 Captain
Commuter
178 days worked which at Atlas is 178 overnights
595 hours block
$186,966
$1841 profit sharing
$7,066 401k match
$9553 per diem

kfahmi
01-02-2018, 11:15 PM
Wait... They're supposed to pay us?!?

MKUltra
01-03-2018, 03:33 AM
3 year piedmont dash8/e145 captain
Lives in base
days worked.... too many to count..
overnights... yup too many to count..
Too many to count hours block
$101000
$1300 profit sharing
$4000 401k match
$7000 per diem

I could have made much more but i upgraded in the spring so I didn't make captain pay till may.. from may till october I credited 1000hrs credit for 400 hours block. We get massive pay overrides for working days off.. but there have been months where i was only off 4 days.

WHACKMASTER
01-03-2018, 03:55 AM
Iíll sell you mine!

You can have one pair of mine. I worked Christmas Eve & day so I got two pairs.

FmrPropCapt
01-03-2018, 05:04 AM
3 year piedmont dash8/e145 captain
Lives in base
days worked.... too many to count..
overnights... yup too many to count..
Too many to count hours block
$101000
$1300 profit sharing
$4000 401k match
$7000 per diem

I could have made much more but i upgraded in the spring so I didn't make captain pay till may.. from may till october I credited 1000hrs credit for 400 hours block. We get massive pay overrides for working days off.. but there have been months where i was only off 4 days.

Piedmont (Great for you guys) making more than a Spirit FO. Well done...

Han Solo
01-03-2018, 05:14 AM
1) DAL
2) 9 months 7ER FO, 1 month training, 2 months NB captain
3) 757/717
4) Years of Service with company - 3 years
5) How many days you worked - 109 days @ single pay (includes roughly 20+ training days), 9 @ double pay
6) How many overnights you had - 62
7) Days bought for OE - 23
8) Vacation and payback days - 32
9) How many hours you blocked - 420
10) Expected gross income (including PS from last year's work) - $218k
11) Company 401K - $34k
12) Check of the month club - $65k

I probably screwed up moving to the left seat. I'll get a little more money next year for a lot more work.

say again
01-03-2018, 05:27 AM
JB 320 FO 2/3 years

$115,000 gross
$4000 per diem
$15,000 401K
500 block hrs. No RSA, VDA

Approx $134,000 total comp

flysooner9
01-03-2018, 06:30 AM
CE-680 co-captain 4 years with company
Flew 210 hours
Around 40 nights away from home
All expenses paid on the road.
Have to be available 24/7
$74,000

ShyGuy
01-03-2018, 06:32 AM
Virgin
6th yr FO

Living in base 90%+ flying was 2-day transcon trips about 11-12 blk hrs each. 6-8 times per month, less with vacation. Bid 2 months on reserve at min guarantee. Typical lineholder month was fly 13-16 days, off for 15-18 days. Vacation months were more days off and less block. Nights away from home about 6-8/month average.

$146k gross
$4800 per diem
$15,572 401K (my contribution 7786, rest company)

Tom a Hawk
01-03-2018, 06:37 AM
JetBlue 4th year 190 FO rate.
Commuter, bid overnights at home and play the broken pairing game in my local airports. CKA bidding was ineffective this year due to low training on equipment.
Avg 4 overnights per month including the pad.
Avg 17-18 off
644 block
1000 credit from my efforts for pay of $108k
additional:
10k profit sharing
5k perdiem
3k of robbing peter to pay paul(small amount of PTO sell back)
14k of company 401k match/contribution

Total of 140k

OverTheCap
01-03-2018, 06:44 AM
SWA
Just over 2 years on property
737 FO Cartel of One
817 block (3 months <45 block)
193.1K Total Gross Pay
7.74K Per Diem
25.9K NEC B Fund
21.2K 11% ??? Profit Sharing (some say 14+%)
247.94K Total Compensation

I've got no agenda in posting this other than I know guys look at SWA as a stale peanut backwards Texas airline that you'll only fly NB 73s, take forever to upgrade, and is past its prime. I'd beg to differ. The place definitely has its issues, but all in all the CAs fly very safe/standard, the pilot Group looks out for the junior segment, employee groups treat each other very well, the CPs take care of folks, the Training is getting way better, and if you don't mind working, you can be very productive for you/your family with your time at work.

There's a lot of rah rah burn it down you'll hear and read just like anywhere, and I even throw a log or three on that fire from time to time myself. And it certainly has its points to improve (go Casey and the NC) but it sounds/feels like the Pilot Group is galvanizing as a Group towards C2020 to address some of the loopholes and crew Scheduling practices. On the JS with other airlines, and hearing those perspectives, I feel fortunate to have the SWAPA 2.0 we have NOW, not the old SWAPA, and definitely not ALPA, 1224, etc.

Bottom Line is if that PS burps above 11%...I don't know of too many any other places you can tap on 250k in total comp your 2nd year. Hope this encourages some good guys (91/135, corporate, acmi, regional, mil) to keep their apps updated here.

1st year guys bid straight if you need too. You'll eventually 117 limit yourself though. Then when you get your 2nd year pay raise you'll see the wah wah no soup for you messages as your straight time bidding catches up to you with 117 limitations. Ensure you leverage:

-If awarded a Trip at Premium it pays 2nd year too

-Monthly Open Time (MOT)is generally low seniority competition, easy way to pick up 2nd year pay

-a trip picked up from MOT will have a /M. After ELITT opens you can trade that Trip "up" from a 2 or 3 day to a 3 or 4 day. It'll still keep the /M and pay second year

-any trip you pick up after it's awarded to a reserve ( (AR) on the Open Time Awards report ) pays at 2nd year IF it was run through the open time process. So watch when DOT closes at 0900. If you don't get the Trip you want and it was assigned to a reserve, call sked, verify it was run through the open time process, and snag that Trip. Text your bro afterwards.

Plus all this and if you fly with most (not all) former F-Teeners you'll get FREE flight instruction ��

OverTheCap
01-03-2018, 06:58 AM
SWA
Just over 2 years on property
737 FO Cartel of One
817 block (3 months <45 block)
193.1K Total Gross Pay
7.74K Per Diem
25.9K NEC B Fund
21.2K 11% ??? Profit Sharing (some say 14+%)
247.94K Total Compensation

I've got no agenda in posting this other than I know guys look at SWA as a stale peanut backwards Texas airline that you'll only fly NB 73s, take forever to upgrade, and is past its prime. I'd beg to differ. The place definitely has its issues, but all in all the CAs fly very safe/standard, the pilot Group looks out for the junior segment, employee groups treat each other very well, the CPs take care of folks, the Training is getting way better, and if you don't mind working, you can be very productive for you/your family with your time at work.

There's a lot of rah rah burn it down you'll hear and read just st like anywhere, and I even throw a log on that fire from time to time myself. And it certainly has its points to improve (go Casey and the NC) but it sounds/feels like the Pilot Group is galvanizing as a Group towards C2020 to address some of the loopholes and crew Scheduling practices. In JS with other airlines, and hearing those perspectives, I feel fortunate to have the SWAPA 2.0 we have NOW, not the old SWAPA, and definitely not ALPA, 1224, etc.

Bottom Line is if that PS burps above 11%...I don't know of too many any other places you can tap on 250k in total comp your 2nd year. Hope this encourages some good guys (91/135, corporate, acmi, regional, mil) to keep their apps updated here.

EWRflyr
01-03-2018, 07:00 AM
1) Airline employer: United
2) Seat: First Officer
3) Equipment: 737
4) Years of Service with company: 10/11
5) How many days you worked: 150
6) How many overnights you had: 110
7) How many hours you blocked: 742
8) How many hours did you credit: 1,130
9) Expected gross income: $221,000
10) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.): $32K B-fund; $21K PS; $7K per diem

Chuck D
01-03-2018, 07:00 AM
SWA
Just over 2 years on property
737 FO Cartel of One
817 block (3 months <45 block)
193.1K Total Gross Pay
7.74K Per Diem
25.9K NEC B Fund
21.2K 11% ??? Profit Sharing (some say 14+%)
247.94K Total Compensation

I've got no agenda in posting this other than I know guys look at SWA as a stale peanut backwards Texas airline that you'll only fly NB 73s, take forever to upgrade, and is past its prime. I'd beg to differ. The place definitely has its issues, but all in all the CAs fly very safe/standard, the pilot Group looks out for the junior segment, employee groups treat each other very well, the CPs take care of folks, the Training is getting way better, and if you don't mind working, you can be very productive for you/your family with your time at work.

There's a lot of rah rah burn it down you'll hear and read just st like anywhere, and I even throw a log on that fire from time to time myself. And it certainly has its points to improve (go Casey and the NC) but it sounds/feels like the Pilot Group is galvanizing as a Group towards C2020 to address some of the loopholes and crew Scheduling practices. In JS with other airlines, and hearing those perspectives, I feel fortunate to have the SWAPA 2.0 we have NOW, not the old SWAPA, and definitely not ALPA, 1224, etc.

Bottom Line is if that PS burps above 11%...I don't know of too many any other places you can tap on 250k in total comp your 2nd year. Hope this encourages some good guys (91/135, corporate, acmi, regional, mil) to keep their apps updated here.

You tweaked your F-teen instructing portion out :D

Nice take-home. Question. It looks like you added per diem to total gross... no? Also, are you adding estimated 2018 paid PS to 2017 actual pay?

Smooth at FL450
01-03-2018, 08:22 AM
SWA FO
year 1/2 (half n half)
99 nights in a hotel, i bid/trade into trips that pass through my home city(an extra 10 nights at home), also live within driving distance of my base.
1574 trip for pay credit (1370 hours)
862 block flown

$137k
$19k NEC into 401k
PS TBD, but 12% would be another $16.4 into 401k

Total comp: est $182k

Trip7
01-03-2018, 08:23 AM
Airline employer: Delta
Seat: Captain
Equipment: 717
Years of Service with company: 3
How many hours you blocked: 558 (All RSV)
Expected gross income: $264,479 including $32,400 PS
Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.): $36K B-fund $6K DC excess cash $6.5K per diem

ShyGuy
01-03-2018, 08:32 AM
Airline employer: Delta
Seat: Captain
Equipment: 717
Years of Service with company: 3
How many hours you blocked: 558 (All RSV)
Expected gross income: $264,479 including $32,400 PS
Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.): $36K B-fund $6K DC excess cash $6.5K per diem

That's a lotta hours for a Delta reserve? :eek:

TurbineDriver
01-03-2018, 08:34 AM
Is it just me or do we all need to work for SW? Seems like all the SW guys make big $$$

say again
01-03-2018, 10:13 AM
Is it just me or do we all need to work for SW? Seems like all the SW guys make big $$$

I don't need to work for them.

Tuck
01-03-2018, 10:21 AM
FEDEX
MD11 FO/12 years
182 block hours (normal)
$260 gross (not counting per diem, A/B plan)
approx 100 days worked, 96 nights spent away
live in base
worked some 150% trips Nov/Dec

PotatoChip
01-03-2018, 10:28 AM
So the profit sharing alone at DAL is more than first year regional FOs make for their entire income... this industry is so effed up.

El Guapo
01-03-2018, 11:35 AM
FEDEX
MD11 FO/12 years
182 block hours (normal)
$260 gross (not counting per diem, A/B plan)
approx 100 days worked, 96 nights spent away
live in base
worked some 150% trips Nov/Dec

$1,428/hr. Winner winner chicken dinner. Nice work

freezingflyboy
01-03-2018, 11:36 AM
1) Delta
2) FO
3) 757/767
4) 2nd/3rd year pay
5) Average about 10-12 work days per month. Three days of premium pay for the year. Average line award was 16-17 days off and then some creative trading/personal drops. What can I say, I've been enjoying the time off :D
6) About 10-12 overnights per month. Mostly domestic with roughly one Europe trip per month. I'm a low-to-mid seniority commuter and average 2 extra nights away per month, usually on the front end.
7) Company says 572 block hours flown.
8) No idea.
9) $165K Gross including $19.2K Profit Sharing and $6K Per Diem.
10) $25.4K Company 401K Contribution

Total compensation: $190,400. Not bad for part time work! ($184.5 if you don't count per diem).

SlipKid
01-03-2018, 11:43 AM
So the profit sharing alone at DAL is more than first year regional FOs make for their entire income... this industry is so effed up.

It's always been like that. That's why the regionals have always been considering by most to be time building stepping stones and not careers
.

ground stop
01-03-2018, 12:06 PM
Southwest Slacker
1mo 1st yr/ 11mo 2nd yr
Drive 2 hr to base
No pick up
Worked about 135 days
Block 699hrs
Gross $121500
Bfund $16200
Per Diem $5600

Sunfish FAIP
01-03-2018, 12:06 PM
I don't need to work for them.

You can have my position there along with the dozen plus who will be resigning in the next 30 days

EWRflyr
01-03-2018, 12:08 PM
United

2/3 year 320 FO pay, live in base, usually awarded 17-19 days off but pickup down to 14-15 off. Average 15 off. Double time pick up too.

865 hours
171k pay
14k per Diem
12k PS
27k B fund
224k Total.

Sorry to doubt you, but after looking at these numbers and doing calculations I find the $14K in per diem a stretch and not likely. IF you worked 19 days per month and did ONLY international flying and assuming full 24-hour per diem days start-to-finish, that would amount to about $15,500 in per diem. That's literally working with zero life.

Drops from there doing domestic/Canada and considering we don't actually get per diem for 0000-2359 X 4 days on a four-day trip. Now international if you included the international override, which is NOT per diem, then I could see those numbers being what you stated.

say again
01-03-2018, 12:08 PM
You can have my position there along with the dozen plus who will be resigning in the next 30 days

I don't want it. Why are you resigning?

Sunfish FAIP
01-03-2018, 12:10 PM
I don't want it. Why are you resigning?

We want to be able to live in CLT and drive to work plus only retiring around 100 guys....PER YEAR!

say again
01-03-2018, 12:12 PM
We want to be able to live in CLT and drive to work plus only retiring around 100 guys....PER YEAR!

Those are all valid reasons. I'm a fan of driving to work myself and won't take a job that requires me to commute. Best of luck. :)

NightIP
01-03-2018, 12:39 PM
Atlas 767 Captain
5th year, half the year spent on 767 FO pay.
$110,000, not including per diem, 401k match, or profit sharing (paltry, anyway).

Kids, friends donít let friends come to Atlas. I have apps out everywhere.

okawner
01-03-2018, 12:50 PM
Is it just me or do we all need to work for SW? Seems like all the SW guys make big $$$I'm too lazy to work for SWA

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5Ypilot
01-03-2018, 01:47 PM
Atlas 7 year Captain
767
$124,000
$6,200 401k match
$1,200 profit sharing
$8,000 in perdiem

Gone 192 nights
Blocked 243hrs

I pray my phone rings in 2018 from a real airline.

sherpster
01-03-2018, 01:54 PM
We want to be able to live in CLT and drive to work plus only retiring around 100 guys....PER YEAR!

Better be careful, the SWA guys will come guns a blazing soon. They get all spooled up if you dont think SWA is the cats meow :D

TurbineDriver
01-03-2018, 02:07 PM
Iím just curious to see what a typical 4 day SWA trip looks like. Anyone care to post one?

Burton78
01-03-2018, 02:12 PM
Iím just curious to see what a typical 4 day SWA trip looks like. Anyone care to post one?

I would show my schedule, but I haven't flown a 4 day in years. It's not something you can't easily avoid. The obvious disdain for SWA by some people on this forum is a little entertaining though

e6bpilot
01-03-2018, 02:45 PM
SWA has plenty of lazy pilots. They just donít post here. Multiply tfp pay rate x 1200 and that is what they are earning plus or minus a few percent by flying 12 days a month and blocking around 600-700.
Some guys donít want to work here...I get it and donít care. I donít want to work for a lot of their shops either. To each their own. SWA has its great parts and its warts and I am the first to admit it.
I can, however, adjust my schedule and working habits at will, a luxury that I wouldnít have at a lot of places.
Anyone who commutes to a job that they can drive to is doing it wrong imo.

Smooth at FL450
01-03-2018, 03:25 PM
Iím just curious to see what a typical 4 day SWA trip looks like. Anyone care to post one?

4 days aren't that typical...

But here's my next 3 day....

Day 1, 1305L report
oak-aus-sjc

Day 2, 1455L report
sjc-sna-oak-pdx-smf

Day 3, 1630L report
smf-sea-oak

blocks 17, pays 17.8. not a great paying trip but it includes 17 hours at home.

feltf4
01-03-2018, 04:14 PM
JB 320 FO 2/3 years

$115,000 gross
$4000 per diem
$15,000 401K
500 block hrs. No RSA, VDA

Approx $134,000 total comp

This is so funny, in total fear of what the web bullies will say if you donít disclose that you did not do VDA/RSA.. sad world our divided pilot group lives in

flyguy81
01-03-2018, 04:27 PM
Iím just curious to see what a typical 4 day SWA trip looks like. Anyone care to post one?

Day 1
DEN-MKE-SFO

Day 2
SFO-LAS-ICT-STL-EWR

Day 3
EWR-DEN-LAX

Day 4
DEN-SFO-DEN

Block 28:30 Pay 33.8


Here's another:

Day 1
BWI-DTW-MDW-PHL

Day 2
PHL-MDW-ONT

Day 3
ONT-SMF-PDX-SMF-ONT

Day 4
ONT-LAS-LAX-BWI

Block 22.5 Pay 28

I don't do them if I can help it. 1-3 days and prefer the 1-3 leg days with a mix of short/long legs.

BZC17
01-03-2018, 04:46 PM
Swa
FO 3.5 yrs
800 Block
150k gross
6.2k per diem
25k dc
17k ps

Xtreme87
01-03-2018, 06:15 PM
Day 1
DEN-MKE-SFO

Day 2
SFO-LAS-ICT-STL-EWR

Day 3
EWR-DEN-LAX

Day 4
DEN-SFO-DEN

Block 28:30 Pay 33.8


Here's another:

Day 1
BWI-DTW-MDW-PHL

Day 2
PHL-MDW-ONT

Day 3
ONT-SMF-PDX-SMF-ONT

Day 4
ONT-LAS-LAX-BWI

Block 22.5 Pay 28

I don't do them if I can help it. 1-3 days and prefer the 1-3 leg days with a mix of short/long legs.

Can you get all 1 leg per day trips or do those go senior?

flyguy81
01-03-2018, 06:38 PM
Can you get all 1 leg per day trips or do those go senior?

Only trips like that Iíve seen are 2 days. Like DEN-EWR/PHL/etc and back the next day. Rigged at 13 credit.

Big Perm
01-03-2018, 08:26 PM
Envoy
"Worked" 3 months of training.
Started in late Sep.
Sent some of us to France to do our sim tng.
After type ride,,,,that dept didn't email the IOE scheduler so I was off for a month during the holidays ...paid.
I don't get it, this airline stuff is great.
3k per month training guaranteed.
9k last year plus a bonus that is taxed like a big dog.
No 401k first year.
I don't think there's any profit sharing.

There's some sarcasm in there if you can find it. Cheers.

WHACKMASTER
01-03-2018, 08:32 PM
Can you get all 1 leg per day trips or do those go senior?

Bahaha! One leg days at SWA :rolleyes:

at6d
01-03-2018, 08:40 PM
SWA, just finished year 2.
Drive 1:45 to work.

$131,900 gross
$17,678 NEC
$6990 per diem

845 block
very little OT
no international
No reserve
No AM trips
1 easy JA trip
Christmas and New Yearís Day off

I aim for about 105 TFP per month, and usually have 15-17 days off.

UALfoLIFE
01-03-2018, 08:46 PM
Sorry to doubt you, but after looking at these numbers and doing calculations I find the $14K in per diem a stretch and not likely. IF you worked 19 days per month and did ONLY international flying and assuming full 24-hour per diem days start-to-finish, that would amount to about $15,500 in per diem. That's literally working with zero life.

Drops from there doing domestic/Canada and considering we don't actually get per diem for 0000-2359 X 4 days on a four-day trip. Now international if you included the international override, which is NOT per diem, then I could see those numbers being what you stated.

Double town pay in Lax is how. Majority of our trips do not start in LAX on the bus. ONT pays the most at 165$, SNA 132$, BUR 85$. Itís paid out as non taxable per Diem, I bid ONT as my first choice because Iím 15 mins from the parking lot. Also Im generally working trips with high TAFB. 4 months in a row last year I had nearly 2k in per diem. The exact number is actually $14,125.61

ELAC321
01-03-2018, 09:12 PM
Double town pay in Lax is how. Majority of our trips do not start in LAX on the bus. ONT pays the most at 165$, SNA 132$, BUR 85$. Itís paid out as non taxable per Diem, I bid ONT as my first choice because Iím 15 mins from the parking lot. Also Im generally working trips with high TAFB. 4 months in a row last year I had nearly 2k in per diem. The exact number is actually $14,125.61

You guys get paid out per diem based on city? Or are you referring to itemizing your city pairs for tax deduction?

Sluggo_63
01-04-2018, 12:24 AM
1) Airline employer: FedEx
2) Seat: Captain
3) Equipment: 757
4) Years of Service with company: 11/12
5) How many days you worked: Don't know
6) How many overnights you had: Don't know
7) How many hours you blocked: 244
8) How many hours did you credit: Don't know
9) Expected gross income: $265,936 (BLG + Int'l Ovrrd + Training)
10) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.): $19.5K B-fund; $7.7K per diem; $42K Housing Allowance

evrbodysmugglin
01-04-2018, 02:57 AM
Piedmont
[email protected] year one FO
[email protected] year two CA
375 hrs block
Gross 85k
Was good at getting triple preems

Per diem not included

Larry in TN
01-04-2018, 04:12 AM
plus a bonus that is taxed like a big dog.
I have good news for you. Your bonus has not yet been taxed. The deduction from your bonus was only withholding which, by law, is 25% on bonus payments. Since you'll ultimately end up in a much lower bracket when you file, in a couple of months, the actual tax paid on the bonus will be much less. The over-withholding on the bonus will increase your refund.

You guys get paid out per diem based on city?
No. Doubletown pay is paid when a trip starts at an airport other than the primary airport in a domicile. EWR crews, for example, also cover LGA. IAD crews cover BWI and DCA. LAX crews cover (I think) ONT and SNA. Each co-domicile has a specified amount which is paid as per diem (untaxed) for each trip which originates from that airport.

NoDeskJob
01-04-2018, 04:54 AM
Enjoying my time off....
1) Airline employer: DL
2) Seat: FO. Spent the year at about 55-35% from top.
3) Equipment: MD88
4) Years of Service with company: 4 months at 1 year, 8 months 2nd year.
5) How many days you worked: About 11 per month
6) How many overnights you had: Don't know. not many day trips though.
7) How many hours you blocked: 414 (seems like more on the 88)
8) How many hours did you credit: About 700
9) Expected gross income: $108K
10) Extra Pay: $16.4K employer contribution to 401K

I'm local. I was on reserve (by choice) for 2 months this year. I basically flew a "normal" to slightly above normal amount the first half of the year, then throttled WAY back the last 6 months. Also, the 88 manning has been better the last 5 months, so ive been able to drop almost my whole schedule and then pick up busted trips. For example, fly a 2 day with only 4-8 hours of flying.
Ive never flown a Premium pay trip. I did have 2-3 Reroutes this year that were worth more.

UALfoLIFE
01-04-2018, 05:48 AM
You guys get paid out per diem based on city? Or are you referring to itemizing your city pairs for tax deduction?

Mileage and time money based on the driving distance from the actual domicile airport.

UALfoLIFE
01-04-2018, 05:51 AM
I have good news for you. Your bonus has not yet been taxed. The deduction from your bonus was only withholding which, by law, is 25% on bonus payments. Since you'll ultimately end up in a much lower bracket when you file, in a couple of months, the actual tax paid on the bonus will be much less. The over-withholding on the bonus will increase your refund.


No. Doubletown pay is paid when a trip starts at an airport other than the primary airport in a domicile. EWR crews, for example, also cover LGA. IAD crews cover BWI and DCA. LAX crews cover (I think) ONT and SNA. Each co-domicile has a specified amount which is paid as per diem (untaxed) for each trip which originates from that airport.

Lax also covers BUR. Thereís people who bid only 1 days out Ont, that easily puts them at or over 2k in per diem for month. The caveat though, is this money is not tax deductible like the regular per diem.

Smooth at FL450
01-04-2018, 06:17 AM
The caveat though, is this money is not tax deductible like the regular per diem.

I think you mean the per diem on day trips is taxable...don't know of any per diem that is tax deductible (and we just lost the deductible difference of per diem paid vs IRS allowance)

Albief15
01-04-2018, 06:25 AM
1) FDX
2) Capt--80% seniority.
3) 76--FDA
4) 16 Years
5) Days worked--dunno..didn't track. Reserve 4 months/line 8 months
6) Overnights--115--included 2 trips to states for recurrent (14 days)
7) 215/73 (76/75) 288 total
8) Credit (total adjusted for training, OT, etc) 1339
9) $415,000
10) B plan $21,600 Housing approx $60,000 Per diem $9175.

Sold back vacation 2 months which netted an extra 14k (included in total credit) and did 4 1 week draft trips (1.5 times pay). That added maybe 240 credit hours of the 1339. Dropped or gave away about 150 hours or more of credit to get some time off. DO NOT come to FedEx planning on anything but 900-1000 hours a year. FDA manning was so screwed up we had a special bid to add 10 more pilots. Extra flying and vacation cancels may not be a player going forward. Great year--but likely a fluke.

UALfoLIFE
01-04-2018, 06:40 AM
I think you mean the per diem on day trips is taxable...don't know of any per diem that is tax deductible (and we just lost the deductible difference of per diem paid vs IRS allowance)

No thatís not what I mean. The double town pay money has to be separated out from the regular per diem money that can be deducted at the end of the year for meals and expenses.(yes, now gone) Even for a 1 day the double town pay is still paid out as non tax per diem. An Ont 1 day pays 20$ in taxable per diem and another 165.15 in double town non taxed per diem.

MoosePileit
01-04-2018, 06:43 AM
UPS FO 10th year.
Net $250.
Duty less than 1/2 days of year before 28 days straight paid vacation off.
Cool part time job.
Interesting times.
7 lean years, 7 fat years.
Edit to add- this is the last year that non-AMT filers will benefit from a pro-diem dot com type calculation, correct?

Sputnik
01-04-2018, 07:00 AM
1) Airline employer: DL
2) Seat: FO 5 months/CA 7
3) Equipment: MD88
4) Years of Service with company: 8 months at 3 year, 4 months 4th year.
5) How many days you worked: Too many, at least 16 per month
6) How many overnights you had: Surprised to find only 96, 8 a month average is less than I thought
7) How many hours you blocked: 650
8) How many hours did you credit: About 1100 if I counted right
9) Expected gross income: $245k which includes 7.1k per diem and 25.5k profit share from last uear.
10) Extra Pay: 16% 401k

I'm also local, as an FO picked up a lot of turns which lowered the nights away from home. Also a handful of premium pay, dont know how much. As a Capt been a reserve b word, generally 4 4 day trips a month getting me to 85-90 hours a month whether I wanted to or not.

Howd you guys calc hours paid? I just went through time cards, not sure Im doing that right.

tribe320
01-04-2018, 08:19 AM
1) Airline employer: Spirit
2) Seat: CA, Mix of 4th & 5th Year Pay
3) Equipment: A320
4) Years of Service with company: 4 years
5) How many days you worked: Average 17-18 days off a month
6) How many overnights you had: Most trips are overnights
7) How many hours you blocked: 426
8) How many hours did you credit: 1417
9) Expected gross income: $191,510 (not including per diem and employer match of a weak 9%)

Freightcowboy
01-04-2018, 08:46 AM
Spirit

10-11 year Captain

15 days off per month
781 block
1370 credit

$222,000 gross
$18000 401K
$7000 per diem

$247,000 total

SlipKid
01-04-2018, 09:24 AM
SWA has plenty of lazy pilots. They just donít post here.

HEY! I am lazy by SW standards, and I post here.




Multiply tfp pay rate x 1200 and that is what they are earning plus or minus a few percent by flying 12 days a month and blocking around 600-700.

This is pretty close for a guy flying his line, but most would have to work 13-14 days to average 100tfp. All I bid are 12 day lines, and I can't recall ever seeing one (in my base category) that paid 100 out of the box. High payers are 94-95with the very occasional97-98. Most average around 90.


Some guys donít want to work here...I get it and donít care. I donít want to work for a lot of their shops either. To each their own. SWA has its great parts and its warts and I am the first to admit it.
I can, however, adjust my schedule and working habits at will, a luxury that I wouldnít have at a lot of places.

Even after giving much of it away over the years, our flexibility is great, and is by far one of the best benefits we have compared with OALs.

GogglesPisano
01-04-2018, 10:41 AM
This might fit in: What's the new income threshold for AMT?

Al Czervik
01-04-2018, 11:52 AM
This might fit in: What's the new income threshold for AMT?

phased out
Single: 335
Married: 495

lowandslow
01-04-2018, 11:59 AM
1) Airline employer: Spirit
2) Seat: CA, Mix of 4th & 5th Year Pay
3) Equipment: A320
4) Years of Service with company: 4 years
5) How many days you worked: Average 17-18 days off a month
6) How many overnights you had: Most trips are overnights
7) How many hours you blocked: 426
8) How many hours did you credit: 1417
9) Expected gross income: $191,510 (not including per diem and employer match of a weak 9%)

Basically all year at 5th year for me and no where near that. Was this a ton of JA & MUP? Just curious how to possibly make my 6th year better, especially w/ that many days off.

FlyingOkra
01-04-2018, 12:40 PM
Basically all year at 5th year for me and no where near that. Was this a ton of JA & MUP? Just curious how to possibly make my 6th year better, especially w/ that many days off.

I’m thinking that he must be in the Training Department or LCA. Look at that Low Block time, but High Credit.

80ktsClamp
01-04-2018, 01:42 PM
phased out
Single: 335
Married: 495

I was just looking at this today... a good portion of us, particularly in income tax states are basically under AMT without it being called AMT with the new plan.

With the loss of so many deductions... looks like it'll be a wash at best for us with an apples to apples comparison to being under AMT.

Qotsaautopilot
01-04-2018, 06:26 PM
Basically all year at 5th year for me and no where near that. Was this a ton of JA & MUP? Just curious how to possibly make my 6th year better, especially w/ that many days off.

At that longevity I’m thinking probably Vegas rsv cartel. It’s not normal and quite honestly shouldn’t be on here during a negotiation as it could be presented to the mediator as normal.

The sad thing is that it’s still low for an airbus captain on guarantee yet at Spirit you have to either be in the training dept or be in Vegas dropping middle rsv days waiting by the the phone for Scheduling to call you for trips and release you from other work days.

It’s sad that even with all those tactics a Spirit pilot still can’t make industry standard pay and let’s not even talk about nonexistent profit sharing and laughable retirement.

While contractually legal you are absolutely at scheduling’s mercy and if there is no open time which is completely regulated by the company or if the base becomes better staffed- poof there goes the money and instead of making legacy Fo money you’re back to making rj captain money

Walkeraviator
01-04-2018, 07:13 PM
.............

Turbosina
01-04-2018, 09:36 PM
This thread is fascinating. In nearly every other profession in the US it's pretty much verboten to discuss compensation with anyone other than one's spouse, and here folks are posting their W2s. Not a criticism, just an observation.

I gotta say, though, folks. Speaking as someone who spent 20+ years in the corporate (non-aviation world) before taking on a second job at a regional airline because I figured 7K hours of piston flying was enough, we airline pilots have it really, really good.

In my day job — which I'm able to do because I bid weekend flying and split-duty trips during weeknights — I work in advertising. Actually, I run my own 50-person company. In this field, like just about any other corporate pursuit, the very concept of a job that requires one to work 100-150 days per year, and potentially earn compensation in the $300-$500K range, is simply unheard of. You'd be laughed out of any corporate interview (including mine) if you suggested a deal like that.

Typically in the higher echelons of corporate America you'll work about 2,300--2,500 hours per year, which translates into approximately 230-250 days 'worked.' (Then again, you're really 'working' every day, even if it's just three hours on a Sunday. There is no concept of 'off' days anymore...you are chained to your smartphone.)

Whereas, in aviation, when you block in and walk off the airplane, you're done. Aside from a few quarterly online training tasks — which we all do on our overnights or during Airport Appreciation time anyways — and aside from some brushup studying for recurrent, there's almost nothing we have to do when we're not on a trip. At this income level, it's impossible to have that kind of arrangement in corporate America.

All I'm saying is, we pilots are good at complaining. The food, the van times, the flow delays, management, contracts, dispatch, MX, catering, crew scheduling, reserve assignments...we'll complain about it all. But for those of you who had to suffer through a non-airline career before you put on your stripes, you know what I'm talking about. This is the Best. Job. In. The. World.*

*Until, of course, the proverbial **** hits the fan, which is what pilots are really paid for. And the consequences of errors in that situation are far greater than errors made by, let's say, a VP of Marketing in some corner office somewhere. So there's that.

All I'm saying is — compared to the vast, vast majority of professionals, we pilots (well, you major airline pilots, to be specific) have it really, really good. Next time you're up in the flight levels, just think about what you could be doing instead — like most people, sitting in a grey cubicle, working twice as much for half the pay.

Maybe that will make that involuntary extension into your day off, or the hotel van showing up 30 minutes late when you've just spent 16 hours slogging across the country in the middle of Snowmageddon, sting a bit less ;)

Turbosina
01-04-2018, 09:49 PM
Oh, and while I'm at it, might as well crash the party and offer a peek into the life of the lowest of the low. No, not a Washington lobbyist...a regional FO! :eek::D

1) Airline employer: Skywest
2) Seat: The one without the tiller
3) Equipment: Climb Restricted Jet
4) Years of Service with company: 3.5
5) How many days you worked: Nearly all split-duty overnights (see below), plus maybe 10 locals
6) How many overnights you had: 98
7) How many hours you blocked: 330
8) How many hours did you credit: 810
9) Expected gross income: $45K-ish from this gig
10) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.): I got some free Classic snack boxes on one of our UAX flights once. Oh, and a couple packets of free tea biscuits on DCI. And once (gasp) a First Class breakfast on a DAL-branded -900. Add it all together and you're talking a street value of $15, easy. :cool:

BobZ
01-04-2018, 09:50 PM
Amen. Mostly. Wouldnt say its the easiest job in the world, but warts and all i would say it has been the greatest.

Turbosina
01-04-2018, 09:59 PM
Amen. Mostly. Wouldnt say its the easiest job in the world, but warts and all i would say it has been the greatest.

Good point, it's not the easiest. But it is the best, IMHO. Edited accordingly!

bright yellow
01-04-2018, 10:01 PM
I'll chime in as a Capt flying in Asia.

Employer: Scoot, An LCC based in Singapore.
Fleet/position: B787/ Capt.
Years of service: 1
Block hours: 850
2017 Gross pay: 200k. Does not include Per Diem about 6K, Provident funds of 10k plus average bonus of 2-3 months of your basic salary.

No socks!

Earning a lot less than the FOs with the legacies!

sherpster
01-05-2018, 03:59 AM
This thread is fascinating. In nearly every other profession in the US it's pretty much verboten to discuss compensation with anyone other than one's spouse, and here folks are posting their W2s. Not a criticism, just an observation.

I gotta say, though, folks. Speaking as someone who spent 20+ years in the corporate (non-aviation world) before taking on a second job at a regional airline because I figured 7K hours of piston flying was enough, we airline pilots have it really, really good.

In my day job ó which I'm able to do because I bid weekend flying and split-duty trips during weeknights ó I work in advertising. Actually, I run my own 50-person company. In this field, like just about any other corporate pursuit, the very concept of a job that requires one to work 100-150 days per year, and potentially earn compensation in the $300-$500K range, is simply unheard of. You'd be laughed out of any corporate interview (including mine) if you suggested a deal like that.

Typically in the higher echelons of corporate America you'll work about 2,300--2,500 hours per year, which translates into approximately 230-250 days 'worked.' (Then again, you're really 'working' every day, even if it's just three hours on a Sunday. There is no concept of 'off' days anymore...you are chained to your smartphone.)

Whereas, in aviation, when you block in and walk off the airplane, you're done. Aside from a few quarterly online training tasks ó which we all do on our overnights or during Airport Appreciation time anyways ó and aside from some brushup studying for recurrent, there's almost nothing we have to do when we're not on a trip. At this income level, it's impossible to have that kind of arrangement in corporate America.

All I'm saying is, we pilots are good at complaining. The food, the van times, the flow delays, management, contracts, dispatch, MX, catering, crew scheduling, reserve assignments...we'll complain about it all. But for those of you who had to suffer through a non-airline career before you put on your stripes, you know what I'm talking about. This is the Best. Job. In. The. World.*

*Until, of course, the proverbial **** hits the fan, which is what pilots are really paid for. And the consequences of errors in that situation are far greater than errors made by, let's say, a VP of Marketing in some corner office somewhere. So there's that.

All I'm saying is ó compared to the vast, vast majority of professionals, we pilots (well, you major airline pilots, to be specific) have it really, really good. Next time you're up in the flight levels, just think about what you could be doing instead ó like most people, sitting in a grey cubicle, working twice as much for half the pay.

Maybe that will make that involuntary extension into your day off, or the hotel van showing up 30 minutes late when you've just spent 16 hours slogging across the country in the middle of Snowmageddon, sting a bit less ;)

When I am working I am gone for 24 hours, not 8. The majority of Americans would not take this job because of the time spent away from home in hotel rooms. Thats what we are getting paid for.

As an additional counterpoint, I have flirted with taking a non flying 9-5 job that pays significantly less because guess what? My wife would be easier for my wife to work because I would home on a regular basis everyday, I could plan things weeks in advance, and my life would be more consistent allowing me to participate in a lot of activitites that I currently struggle to do (coaching my kids sports teams for example).

EWRflyr
01-05-2018, 04:06 AM
Double town pay in Lax is how. Majority of our trips do not start in LAX on the bus. ONT pays the most at 165$, SNA 132$, BUR 85$. Itís paid out as non taxable per Diem, I bid ONT as my first choice because Iím 15 mins from the parking lot. Also Im generally working trips with high TAFB. 4 months in a row last year I had nearly 2k in per diem. The exact number is actually $14,125.61

Thanks for the clarification. I've never done a cross-town/double-town trip so was unaware this was paid under the "per diem" line. Sounds like a good deal for you, especially being so close to ONT.

Chimpy
01-05-2018, 05:02 AM
At that longevity Iím thinking probably Vegas rsv cartel. Itís not normal and quite honestly shouldnít be on here during a negotiation as it could be presented to the mediator as normal.

The sad thing is that itís still low for an airbus captain on guarantee yet at Spirit you have to either be in the training dept or be in Vegas dropping middle rsv days waiting by the the phone for Scheduling to call you for trips and release you from other work days.

Itís sad that even with all those tactics a Spirit pilot still canít make industry standard pay and letís not even talk about nonexistent profit sharing and laughable retirement.

While contractually legal you are absolutely at schedulingís mercy and if there is no open time which is completely regulated by the company or if the base becomes better staffed- poof there goes the money and instead of making legacy Fo money youíre back to making rj captain money

Agreed, most 5 yr CAs are NOWHERE near 200k, not even remotely close

PotatoChip
01-05-2018, 06:13 AM
This thread is fascinating. In nearly every other profession in the US it's pretty much verboten to discuss compensation with anyone other than one's spouse, and here folks are posting their W2s. Not a criticism, just an observation.

I gotta say, though, folks. Speaking as someone who spent 20+ years in the corporate (non-aviation world) before taking on a second job at a regional airline because I figured 7K hours of piston flying was enough, we airline pilots have it really, really good.

In my day job ó which I'm able to do because I bid weekend flying and split-duty trips during weeknights ó I work in advertising. Actually, I run my own 50-person company. In this field, like just about any other corporate pursuit, the very concept of a job that requires one to work 100-150 days per year, and potentially earn compensation in the $300-$500K range, is simply unheard of. You'd be laughed out of any corporate interview (including mine) if you suggested a deal like that.

Typically in the higher echelons of corporate America you'll work about 2,300--2,500 hours per year, which translates into approximately 230-250 days 'worked.' (Then again, you're really 'working' every day, even if it's just three hours on a Sunday. There is no concept of 'off' days anymore...you are chained to your smartphone.)

Whereas, in aviation, when you block in and walk off the airplane, you're done. Aside from a few quarterly online training tasks ó which we all do on our overnights or during Airport Appreciation time anyways ó and aside from some brushup studying for recurrent, there's almost nothing we have to do when we're not on a trip. At this income level, it's impossible to have that kind of arrangement in corporate America.

All I'm saying is, we pilots are good at complaining. The food, the van times, the flow delays, management, contracts, dispatch, MX, catering, crew scheduling, reserve assignments...we'll complain about it all. But for those of you who had to suffer through a non-airline career before you put on your stripes, you know what I'm talking about. This is the Best. Job. In. The. World.*

*Until, of course, the proverbial **** hits the fan, which is what pilots are really paid for. And the consequences of errors in that situation are far greater than errors made by, let's say, a VP of Marketing in some corner office somewhere. So there's that.

All I'm saying is ó compared to the vast, vast majority of professionals, we pilots (well, you major airline pilots, to be specific) have it really, really good. Next time you're up in the flight levels, just think about what you could be doing instead ó like most people, sitting in a grey cubicle, working twice as much for half the pay.

Maybe that will make that involuntary extension into your day off, or the hotel van showing up 30 minutes late when you've just spent 16 hours slogging across the country in the middle of Snowmageddon, sting a bit less ;)

This is all true if youíre lucky and time it right.
Keep in mind many of of us have been through one, two or more bankruptcies or furloughs. This results in losing ALL seniority and ALL pay, and essentially starting your career over at 30, at 40, at 50 years old. There are no commensurate lateral moves.
And of course this is all predicated on majors. Thousands of us are trying desperately to get hired at that level and canít. Meanwhile we get 11 days off guaranteed, get extended, and spend 18-20 nights a month on the road. Yeah, great job.
Point is, yes, it can be great at THAT level, but 80% of professional flying jobs are underpaid, overworked, dangerous, just plain awful or all the above.
Keeping my apps updated and hoping to not go through another furlough or downgrade.....

KC135
01-05-2018, 06:48 AM
When I am working I am gone for 24 hours, not 8. The majority of Americans would not take this job because of the time spent away from home in hotel rooms. Thats what we are getting paid for.

As an additional counterpoint, I have flirted with taking a non flying 9-5 job that pays significantly less because guess what? My wife would be easier for my wife to work because I would home on a regular basis everyday, I could plan things weeks in advance, and my life would be more consistent allowing me to participate in a lot of activitites that I currently struggle to do (coaching my kids sports teams for example).

There are 1 day trips. I haven’t had an overnight in over 2 years.

Turbosina - Our pay rates are posted on APC for the world to see. This never hapens in the corporate world because people negotiate higher salaries for the same job, would make others bitter.

Chuck D
01-05-2018, 07:31 AM
Turbosina,

Donít sell yourself short. Not my first career, and even making good money, there are countless neighborhoods Iím priced out of... i.e. we are not the only industry or line of work that is appropriately compensated. Look around you. The job has itís easy moment. It also has countless moments where our necessary level of expertise and training is called upon and necessitates a correct series of decisions in the moment and not after several minutes consideration. That, and the level of continued proficiency, self study and improvement thatís required of us is worth more than you may causally think it is.

Qotsaautopilot
01-05-2018, 09:00 AM
I love when guys devalue the profession

On a serious note. My opinion is that compensation is a taboo discussion in other lines of work because employers make it that way in an effort to suppress wages. If everyone got it out the open it would enable others to have a much stronger negotiating leg to stand on. Which is exactly what this thread is here. You can see the good and the bad at other carriers enabling your group to know what they could or should add to the next round of negotiations or help you as individual make a better choice to switch carriers if you are still deep on the seniority list.

SlipKid
01-05-2018, 09:18 AM
I love when guys devalue the profession

On a serious note. My opinion is that compensation is a taboo discussion in other lines of work because employers make it that way in an effort to suppress wages. If everyone got it out the open it would enable others to have a much stronger negotiating leg to stand on. Which is exactly what this thread is here. You can see the good and the bad at other carriers enabling your group to know what they could or should add to the next round of negotiations or help you as individual make a better choice to switch carriers if you are still deep on the seniority list.


Exactly. It also shows that the hourly rate published is not the entire picture.

RedOverWhite
01-05-2018, 09:44 AM
I love when guys devalue the profession

On a serious note. My opinion is that compensation is a taboo discussion in other lines of work because employers make it that way in an effort to suppress wages. If everyone got it out the open it would enable others to have a much stronger negotiating leg to stand on. Which is exactly what this thread is here. You can see the good and the bad at other carriers enabling your group to know what they could or should add to the next round of negotiations or help you as individual make a better choice to switch carriers if you are still deep on the seniority list.

I have to disagree with this. When I was a software engineer there were numerous ways I could find out what other software engineers were making based on years of experience, skillsets, degrees earned, geographical location, job title, etc. I could then use that to negotiate my own salary. And of course at the management level I knew all of my direct reports' salaries, and regularly talked about them in management meetings. Most companies are pretty good now about having these conversations specifically to attract and retain talent.

Sure it was taboo at one time, but it's just not anymore.

Of course, none of what I just said about using compensation to attract and retain talent applies to aviation.

at6d
01-05-2018, 11:11 AM
Sure, those at the majors have it pretty good.

What did it take to get there? For most of us, itís at the apex of our careers. In my generation, we suffered 9/11 and the lost decade. I spent nearly a decade as a regional FO making less than todayís starting wage, survived furloughs, moved to corporate for nearly another decade, and only in the last two years made it to a major.

My overall earnings are still lower than many desk gigs.

Yes, we are compensated well...but if people are envious of our pay, they should go to flight school.

Smokey23
01-05-2018, 11:21 AM
^^^^^THIS^^^^^

"If you want to be where I am, you gotta go where I've been"

M20EPilot
01-05-2018, 11:24 AM
This thread is fascinating. In nearly every other profession in the US it's pretty much verboten to discuss compensation with anyone other than one's spouse, and here folks are posting their W2s. Not a criticism, just an observation.


Hey long time no see!

So one thought: is glassdoor.com not relevant? When I left my prior line of work to chase the airline ladder it was starting to become relevant, at least in high-tech, and appeared to be quite accurate. For those motivated to hop around from company to company, I did witness some folks willing to discuss salary and other compensation with their peers.

Ok since I am on this thread, my turn:

1) VX,
2) FO
3) A320
4) year 1/2 (rate: 52, mostly 85, then 122 after the AS JCBA arbitration)
5) I work the minimum when ever possible without bidding reserve. Actively try to swap trips for more productive that I cannot hold in my line, but don't give up days off.
6) Not too many overnights, mostly 1-3 day trips. Prefer 2. Drive a little ways to work.
7) 630 block
8) Unsure of credit, but there was some soft time, sick time, vacation, training, usual stuff.
9) $82K and change gross for the year
10) $4.2K profit sharing (included above), $4.5K per diem and other stipends (not incl above), 9.1K to 401K

= 96K total.

Also took about a month off unpaid FMLA. I don't pick up, with a couple of exceptions for helping out the reduced paychecks from taking leave.

Anticipate about 150-160K total in 2018. HOWEVER, the lifestyle will start to take a serious hit based on what I see from Alaska scheduling. Its like a half step back towards the regional world.

SlipKid
01-05-2018, 05:06 PM
Yes, we are compensated well...but if people are envious of our pay, they should go to flight school.

Yup.... That's my standard answer.

Csy Mon
01-05-2018, 05:23 PM
^^^^^THIS^^^^^

"If you want to be where I am, you gotta go where I've been"


Nice.
Agree that we had to each sh!t to get to the majors.
I drove taxi cabs in Northern Europe, night and day, summer and winter to save money for flight school. Got at least 5000 hours doing that. Also sailed in the Merchant Marine, cleaning tanks in the North Sea at winter when I was a teenager. Did that for a few years.
After flight school I went to Alaska and flew bush out of an Eskimo town on the tundra. Had a honey bucket for a toilet.
Did that for a few years. Still no turbine time.
No college.
Clawed my way up and ended up as a 747 Captain before I was 40.
Had it made, then the gig went BK.
Start over again, bottom of AA’s senility list.
Had it made.
Then 9/11 and long furloughs.
On my hands and knees scrubbing teak decks on yachts to pay my property taxes for a year.
Then took a job flying freight for a scumbag operation out of the MIA corrosion corner.
Then recalled after a few years. Then age 65 kicked in :rolleyes:
Not complaining, it has been a rush, but to get to a major was not a cakewalk. :rolleyes:

Feng
01-05-2018, 06:18 PM
Yup.... That's my standard answer.

Does the the same apply for C suite jobs and business school?

Lakeaffect
01-05-2018, 07:03 PM
Does the the same apply for C suite jobs and business school?

Nope.

Filler....

Count Dracula
01-05-2018, 07:56 PM
This thread is fascinating. In nearly every other profession in the US it's pretty much verboten to discuss compensation with anyone other than one's spouse, and here folks are posting their W2s. Not a criticism, just an observation.

I gotta say, though, folks. Speaking as someone who spent 20+ years in the corporate (non-aviation world) before taking on a second job at a regional airline because I figured 7K hours of piston flying was enough, we airline pilots have it really, really good.

In my day job ó which I'm able to do because I bid weekend flying and split-duty trips during weeknights ó I work in advertising. Actually, I run my own 50-person company. In this field, like just about any other corporate pursuit, the very concept of a job that requires one to work 100-150 days per year, and potentially earn compensation in the $300-$500K range, is simply unheard of. You'd be laughed out of any corporate interview (including mine) if you suggested a deal like that.

Typically in the higher echelons of corporate America you'll work about 2,300--2,500 hours per year, which translates into approximately 230-250 days 'worked.' (Then again, you're really 'working' every day, even if it's just three hours on a Sunday. There is no concept of 'off' days anymore...you are chained to your smartphone.)

Whereas, in aviation, when you block in and walk off the airplane, you're done. Aside from a few quarterly online training tasks ó which we all do on our overnights or during Airport Appreciation time anyways ó and aside from some brushup studying for recurrent, there's almost nothing we have to do when we're not on a trip. At this income level, it's impossible to have that kind of arrangement in corporate America.

All I'm saying is, we pilots are good at complaining. The food, the van times, the flow delays, management, contracts, dispatch, MX, catering, crew scheduling, reserve assignments...we'll complain about it all. But for those of you who had to suffer through a non-airline career before you put on your stripes, you know what I'm talking about. This is the Best. Job. In. The. World.*

*Until, of course, the proverbial **** hits the fan, which is what pilots are really paid for. And the consequences of errors in that situation are far greater than errors made by, let's say, a VP of Marketing in some corner office somewhere. So there's that.

All I'm saying is ó compared to the vast, vast majority of professionals, we pilots (well, you major airline pilots, to be specific) have it really, really good. Next time you're up in the flight levels, just think about what you could be doing instead ó like most people, sitting in a grey cubicle, working twice as much for half the pay.

Maybe that will make that involuntary extension into your day off, or the hotel van showing up 30 minutes late when you've just spent 16 hours slogging across the country in the middle of Snowmageddon, sting a bit less ;)



Those individuals in the cubicles are not medically evaluated every 6 months or annually depending on their age. How many of them have health issues that are a direct result of their job?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SlipKid
01-05-2018, 08:36 PM
Does the the same apply for C suite jobs and business school?

Do people in those jobs go to flight school? :rolleyes:

A330FoodCritic
01-05-2018, 09:47 PM
AA narrow body Captain
12+ year pay
313000 including per diem and profit sharing. plus 36K into 401k
4 months reserve 73 hr pay per month 8 months line holding
623 hours flown
Worked way too many days. Averaged about 17 days plus many commutes on days off
Commuter
No voluntary overtime. Sometimes they make you do it.
3 weeks vacation
30 hours unused sick paid out
I rarely trip trade.


If the company put 36k into your 401k at 16%DC that means your W-2 gross was 225k. How the heck do you get to 313k with per diem and our measly profit sharing?

Because if he put $24K in, the max the company can put in is $36K, after that the 16% goes to him as pay.

BobSacamano
01-05-2018, 10:15 PM
Those individuals in the cubicles are not medically evaluated every 6 months or annually depending on their age. How many of them have health issues that are a direct result of their job?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Uh, have you ever worked a high-salary desk job? Think about what a 70 hour workweek does to your body, your mind, and your family relationships. Think about responding to work emails at the dinner table and fretting about that lawsuit while laying in bed at 3 AM.

Look, flying for a living has its downsides, but it seems to me that airline pilots donít get paid to just fly airplanes. Flying airplanes is something rich private pilots do for fun on the weekends. What airline pilots are paid to do is to deal with the crappy part of flying ó spend half the year in airport hotels, miss holidays with family, deal with passengers, and yes, accept the risk that a medical issue can cost your job.

Iím nothing more than an aspiring airline pilot, but Iím sick of pilots on this forum and elsewhere whoíve got no idea of how lucky they are to fly for a living. As a teenager in 2002 I took the advice of a jaded American pilot who discouraged me from becoming a pilot because he was tired of the post-9/11 airline industry. Heíd never made his living doing anything other than flying. 16 years later, heís making $300k flying 777s across the Pacific once a week and Iím considering throwing away a successful non-aviation career and taking a huge pay cut just to start at the bottom in professional aviation. Itís taken all this time just to re-learn what I already knew but allowed myself to be talked out of: I want to fly for a living.

Iíd be much better off today if Iíd taken my advice from someone whoíd seen the grass on both sides and better appreciated the fact that airline pilots have it much better than the MBAs, accountants, and lawyers clawing for C-suite gigs.

busdriver12
01-05-2018, 11:48 PM
Uh, have you ever worked a high-salary desk job? Think about what a 70 hour workweek does to your body, your mind, and your family relationships. Think about responding to work emails at the dinner table and fretting about that lawsuit while laying in bed at 3 AM.

Look, flying for a living has its downsides, but it seems to me that airline pilots donít get paid to just fly airplanes. Flying airplanes is something rich private pilots do for fun on the weekends. What airline pilots are paid to do is to deal with the crappy part of flying ó spend half the year in airport hotels, miss holidays with family, deal with passengers, and yes, accept the risk that a medical issue can cost your job.

Iím nothing more than an aspiring airline pilot, but Iím sick of pilots on this forum and elsewhere whoíve got no idea of how lucky they are to fly for a living. As a teenager in 2002 I took the advice of a jaded American pilot who discouraged me from becoming a pilot because he was tired of the post-9/11 airline industry. Heíd never made his living doing anything other than flying. 16 years later, heís making $300k flying 777s across the Pacific once a week and Iím considering throwing away a successful non-aviation career and taking a huge pay cut just to start at the bottom in professional aviation. Itís taken all this time just to re-learn what I already knew but allowed myself to be talked out of: I want to fly for a living.

Iíd be much better off today if Iíd taken my advice from someone whoíd seen the grass on both sides and better appreciated the fact that airline pilots have it much better than the MBAs, accountants, and lawyers clawing for C-suite gigs.

Pretty sure we aren't getting paid the big bucks to stay in airport hotels. It's because it takes a significant amount of experience and effort to get these jobs, it's a lot of responsibility, and we still have unions. Flying a Cessna is a little different than flying heavy equipment.

There are jobs that are well paid that aren't flying or soul sucking. My son is paid $220K/yr to work 40 hour weeks and sleep in his own bed every night. He also gets unlimited paid time off, breakfast, lunch and dinner cooked, free alcohol, massages, and hundreds of thousands of $$ in stock... and he's in his twenties. Not many airline pilots with that deal.

I'm sorry you got talked out of doing what you wanted to, but don't buy into the idea that this is a fantasy job. Plenty of misery, difficult and stressful situations, health/sleep issues, and that's not even touching the stress of furloughs, job loss and medical issues.

at6d
01-06-2018, 12:40 AM
What airline pilots are paid to do is to deal with the crappy part of flying ó spend half the year in airport hotels, miss holidays with family, deal with passengers, and yes, accept the risk that a medical issue can cost your job.
.

That thing you said about being tired of hearing airline pilots complain...yet you want to be one...aspiring, right?

Funny. I had that desk job where I took the work home with me. Making sure that high dollar negotiated contract was exactly right...that the $18 million dollar investment was going to be delivered on time, that my executives were where they needed to be, schedules were in order, being on call 24/7...and then going flying for a weekend! Oh waitóthat was my corporate flying job. And yes, we serviced the lav, too.

Or how about being an FO on a Saab 340 based at DFW. Summer temps on a ramp over 115 degrees, six legs a day on a five-day reserve block. Nearly 800 block hours flown and paid a paltry $25K a year...on third year pay! Great. Dishwasher just flooded the kitchen and baby is sick. Iím glad I bid the SHV and ACT overnights so I can eat breakfast for free.

I submit to you buddy, that pilots arenít paid for what you sayóbut for the time that we were climbing over the Rocky Mountains coming out of DEN at night in winter time when the cabin pressure suddenly drops and red lights start flashing and horns start blaring.

Or when, during low visibility in blowing snow out of Chicago, we rotate during takeoff and the #2 engine craters.

Or when enroute, the T-prop we are operating has a high pressure oil line separation which again results in a shutdown (and a ton of oil on the right side of the plane).

Or that time when the lady crashed out of the lav, rolled into the galley and proceeded with a cardiac event.

We are paid for those times when people in the back are screaming.

Yeah, I guess I am lucky. Probably because I landed a gig that thousands of other qualified pilots are still trying to land, and ďaspiringĒ airline pilots tell me that I am.

But Iím also a college educated, multi-lingual civilian that worked his ******* ass off over the last 25 years building that luck.

But my best luckóor worstówas knowing what direction I was going to go in (Aviation) from a single-digit age.

A dime a dozen for guys or gals like me at the airlines, corporate, or military aviation departments.

Lucky ass doctors...

Caveman
01-06-2018, 03:54 AM
This thread was chock full of good data salary points.

Here's an attempt to get it back on track.

Anymore Alaska data points that guys would like to share...they need more representation in this thread

sherpster
01-06-2018, 05:05 AM
I havent noticed many AA pilot posts either

Imapilot2
01-06-2018, 05:14 AM
Uh, have you ever worked a high-salary desk job? Think about what a 70 hour workweek does to your body, your mind, and your family relationships. Think about responding to work emails at the dinner table and fretting about that lawsuit while laying in bed at 3 AM.
Look, flying for a living has its downsides, but it seems to me that airline pilots donít get paid to just fly airplanes. Flying airplanes is something rich private pilots do for fun on the weekends. What airline pilots are paid to do is to deal with the crappy part of flying ó spend half the year in airport hotels, miss holidays with family, deal with passengers, and yes, accept the risk that a medical issue can cost your job.

Iím nothing more than an aspiring airline pilot, but Iím sick of pilots on this forum and elsewhere whoíve got no idea of how lucky they are to fly for a living. As a teenager in 2002 I took the advice of a jaded American pilot who discouraged me from becoming a pilot because he was tired of the post-9/11 airline industry. Heíd never made his living doing anything other than flying. 16 years later, heís making $300k flying 777s across the Pacific once a week and Iím considering throwing away a successful non-aviation career and taking a huge pay cut just to start at the bottom in professional aviation. Itís taken all this time just to re-learn what I already knew but allowed myself to be talked out of: I want to fly for a living.

Iíd be much better off today if Iíd taken my advice from someone whoíd seen the grass on both sides and better appreciated the fact that airline pilots have it much better than the MBAs, accountants, and lawyers clawing for C-suite gigs.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but here's the reality of what I just read from you. I myself was in a similar position where a guy talked me out of going the military route. Looking back I think I would have enjoyed it. That was MY fault for just listening to him. As Pilots we take sources of information from numerous places, Gate, flight attendants, corporate security, ATC, dispatch you name it.
We put it all together to make a decision. That's what I learned. Unfortunately you were young and you listen to one person. You should have talked to 30.

....and understand the risks. To make this great money I'm making now I think back to my first aeroscience class. The old instructor in the lecture hall told us to look left down the row and look right down the row, only one of you in that row is going to make big money in the major airlines someday. He was spot-on and that didn't occur until 19 years after my first flight lesson.

Qotsaautopilot
01-06-2018, 05:14 AM
Pretty sure we aren't getting paid the big bucks to stay in airport hotels. It's because it takes a significant amount of experience and effort to get these jobs, it's a lot of responsibility, and we still have unions. Flying a Cessna is a little different than flying heavy equipment.

There are jobs that are well paid that aren't flying or soul sucking. My son is paid $220K/yr to work 40 hour weeks and sleep in his own bed every night. He also gets unlimited paid time off, breakfast, lunch and dinner cooked, free alcohol, massages, and hundreds of thousands of $$ in stock... and he's in his twenties. Not many airline pilots with that deal.

I'm sorry you got talked out of doing what you wanted to, but don't buy into the idea that this is a fantasy job. Plenty of misery, difficult and stressful situations, health/sleep issues, and that's not even touching the stress of furloughs, job loss and medical issues.

You mind say what he does? I donít think flying is going to be an option for my kids to have full careers (they are in elementary school) do to technology progression. 60 years from now is a long time to not have something major happen an displace thousands out of the cockpit.

Iím always interested to learn about careers where they could earn a good living and provide for a family, their own childrenís education, and fund a nice retirement.

Dragon7
01-06-2018, 05:34 AM
1) Airline employer UAL
2) Seat FO
3) Equipment 737
4) Years of Service with company 5
5) How many days you worked 56
6) How many overnights you had 41
7) How many hours you blocked 274
8) How many hours did you credit 373
9) Expected gross income 65k
10) Extra Pay Almost 10k in B/C fund. $2500 per Diem.

Worked 4 months coming back from LTD. 3 months of hustling and 1 month of easy reserve to get every weekend and Thanksgiving off in November. Live in base. Off Christmas and New Years Eve. Mid day departures on Christmas and New Years. Good layovers and soft time my priority not highly paying trips.

Expect almost 200k on Year 6 Pay in 2018. I work hard when I feel like it. Have a Great side gig too.

NorthernPilot1
01-06-2018, 08:08 AM
1) Atlas
2) FO
3) 747
4) 2nd yr
5) 161 Days worked (includes reserve)
6) 122 Overnights(I live in base)
7) 528 hours flown
8) 879 hours credit
9) $88,800
10) $179.00 in Profit Sharing, $4,400 401k, $8,300 per diem.

SmoothLanderJ
01-06-2018, 08:39 AM
Alaska Airlines 3rd year FO (started year 4 in November)
Arbitrated contract effective November 1st
Live in base, no premium trips
$142,909, includes per diem
$17,493 company contribution 401K (at 13.5%, 15% as of 11/1)
920ish hrs credit, 855 hrs flown
Average 16-17 days off, picked up pilot trips down to 15 usually

MudhammedCJ
01-06-2018, 08:44 AM
1) WN
2) FO
3) Guppy
4) 9/10th year (50/50)
5) 120-125 days (ish) after sick, vacation, JA etc...
6) 100 Overnights
7) 680 hours flown
8) 1225 trip credit (102 per month most the time with about 2 higher and 2 lower)
9) $185k
10) + Profit Sharing $25k or so, $25k NEC, $5700 per diem.

flyer15
01-06-2018, 10:06 AM
Iíd be courious to hear from HAL pilots. Iím interviewing soon and wanted to see what QOL and W2 looks like. I know first year is the pits, so looking beyond that. Itís a marathon we are in.

echelon
01-06-2018, 10:07 AM
Alaska Airlines 3rd year FO (started year 4 in November)
Arbitrated contract effective November 1st
Live in base, no premium trips
$142,909, includes per diem
$17,493 company contribution 401K (at 13.5%, 15% as of 11/1)
920ish hrs credit, 855 hrs flown
Average 16-17 days off, picked up pilot trips down to 15 usually

Just curious, where are you based? 16-17 days off sounds better than the 12-14 I hear about from some of the other AS pilots.

Also, does your $142,909 figure include the 401K DC you mentioned?

Fecking EJet
01-06-2018, 10:19 AM
1) British Airways
2) FO
3) A319/20/21
4) 7 months 2nd year pay, 5 months 3rd
5) 94 days worked
6) 17 overnights
7) 407.4 block hours flown
8) $87,623.77 Gross
9) $10,143.37 Company paid pension contribution
10) $97,767.14 Total compensation

We're salaried with a small amount of flight pay, so credit hours don't really matter. Had a couple of months off sick, so figures are slightly skewed. Hoping we can catch up a bit on this side of the pond. On the plus side, no medical insurance to pay and tax not as high as people think (paid 28.19% total last year, company pension payments are tax free). Company also provides free private health insurance, excellent staff travel, loss of licence insurance, death in service cover for family etc.

Edited to say: Looking back on the last time I posted in 2015, the pound has tanked against the dollar, so I'm about $25k worse off with the exchange rate! Ouch! My buying power is still the same in the UK though. Pre-Brexit my total gross in USD would've been $121,062.90.

busdriver12
01-06-2018, 10:20 AM
You mind say what he does? I donít think flying is going to be an option for my kids to have full careers (they are in elementary school) do to technology progression. 60 years from now is a long time to not have something major happen an displace thousands out of the cockpit.

Iím always interested to learn about careers where they could earn a good living and provide for a family, their own childrenís education, and fund a nice retirement.

Sure, he's a senior software engineer, which one can be classified as after 2-3 years of experience. He's not an outlier, either, there are many young people making as much or more. If one has an ability and interest in it, there are many companies paying high salaries. You don't have to be exceptional, but you do have to be into it.

Now if only there was a girlfriend involved, he'd spend some of that money....
:rolleyes:

Qotsaautopilot
01-06-2018, 10:46 AM
Sure, he's a senior software engineer, which one can be classified as after 2-3 years of experience. He's not an outlier, either, there are many young people making as much or more. If one has an ability and interest in it, there are many companies paying high salaries. You don't have to be exceptional, but you do have to be into it.

Now if only there was a girlfriend involved, he'd spend some of that money....
:rolleyes:

Thatís great to hear. I have a friend that does that heís rolling in it too and single. I also think that those packages will go down over time as the skills become more common. My kindergartener will be taking a coding class next year in public school. For all I know 1st grade coding is just a title but I think software development is going to be as common as math or Spanish class one day.

I feel like I may not be forward thinking enough but it seems like the great paying careers seem to be disappearing.

Rama
01-06-2018, 11:05 AM
Hal
9th year 717 CA
Flew maybe 600 blocked about a thousand
267k including 34 retro pay and 12k profit sharing
15% 401 on top of the above number
5 nights away for sim
My guess is a 330 captain would be maybe 150k more

busdriver12
01-06-2018, 11:08 AM
It's not easy to get the great paying software engineering jobs, though there are plenty of them. You're winning the lottery....until the economy goes down the tube. Plenty of demand for highly experienced engineers, but it's tough to get a good job as an unexperienced one. The market is overloaded with those kids.

On another note, honestly, I'm surprised at how much money people are making at the airlines with profit sharing. I had no idea and it sounds like that's the norm for most companies. I wish FedEx pilots had profit sharing, I really feel like we're being left behind on that.

Riverside
01-06-2018, 11:09 AM
1) Atlas
2) FO
3) 747
4) 2nd yr
5) 161 Days worked (includes reserve)
6) 122 Overnights(I live in base)
7) 528 hours flown
8) 879 hours credit
9) $88,800
10) $179.00 in Profit Sharing, $4,400 401k, $8,300 per diem.

Wow, that's highway robbery for flying a 747.

Outdoors
01-06-2018, 11:48 AM
Just curious, where are you based? 16-17 days off sounds better than the 12-14 I hear about from some of the other AS pilots.

Also, does your $142,909 figure include the 401K DC you mentioned?

All bases for feb bid average 14 days off, 81-83 credit. PDX exception at 15 days off same credit range.

ScooterE6
01-06-2018, 12:07 PM
Retired MIL, younger kids still at home so I sit reserve in domicile to spend as much time at home as possible. PLAN to work more when empty nester paying for college.

1) Airline employer - UAL
2) Seat - FO
3) Equipment - A320, Reserve in domicile 12 months
4) Years of Service with company - 2yr pay 4mths, 3yr 8mths
5) How many overnights you had - 74
6) How many hours you blocked - 515:08
7) How many hours did you credit - 950:14
8) Gross Flight Pay - $135,300
9) PD - $5,100
10) Other special Pay - $1,400
11) PS - $11,400 (2016 paid in 2017)
12) 2017 Gross income - $153,200

Add in...
13) 401K (2017) - $21,600 (16%)

SmoothLanderJ
01-06-2018, 03:28 PM
Just curious, where are you based? 16-17 days off sounds better than the 12-14 I hear about from some of the other AS pilots.

Also, does your $142,909 figure include the 401K DC you mentioned?

SEA based at about 44% in base
That 142.9K does not include 401K DC.

That was on the old 3rd year rate. Even though we aren't satisfied with the arbitration decision, with our new pay scales you'll see people making that or more by year 2.

SD3FR8DOG
01-06-2018, 04:40 PM
Iíd be courious to hear from HAL pilots. Iím interviewing soon and wanted to see what QOL and W2 looks like. I know first year is the pits, so looking beyond that. Itís a marathon we are in.

Iíd also like some HAL info.

mainlineAF
01-06-2018, 05:14 PM
AA
E190 captain
4/5 year pay
No clue how many overnights
No clue on block hours
Gross flight pay- 205,000
2016 profit sharing- 5200([email protected])
Per diem- 9500
401k- 33,300
Total comp- 253,000

pilotgolfer
01-06-2018, 05:46 PM
Wow, that's highway robbery for flying a 747.

You should see what Evergreen paid...it made Atlas look like the big leagues.

Han Solo
01-07-2018, 05:11 AM
Uh, have you ever worked a high-salary desk job? Think about what a 70 hour workweek does to your body, your mind, and your family relationships. Think about responding to work emails at the dinner table and fretting about that lawsuit while laying in bed at 3 AM.

Look, flying for a living has its downsides, but it seems to me that airline pilots donít get paid to just fly airplanes. Flying airplanes is something rich private pilots do for fun on the weekends. What airline pilots are paid to do is to deal with the crappy part of flying ó spend half the year in airport hotels, miss holidays with family, deal with passengers, and yes, accept the risk that a medical issue can cost your job.

Iím nothing more than an aspiring airline pilot, but Iím sick of pilots on this forum and elsewhere whoíve got no idea of how lucky they are to fly for a living. As a teenager in 2002 I took the advice of a jaded American pilot who discouraged me from becoming a pilot because he was tired of the post-9/11 airline industry. Heíd never made his living doing anything other than flying. 16 years later, heís making $300k flying 777s across the Pacific once a week and Iím considering throwing away a successful non-aviation career and taking a huge pay cut just to start at the bottom in professional aviation. Itís taken all this time just to re-learn what I already knew but allowed myself to be talked out of: I want to fly for a living.

Iíd be much better off today if Iíd taken my advice from someone whoíd seen the grass on both sides and better appreciated the fact that airline pilots have it much better than the MBAs, accountants, and lawyers clawing for C-suite gigs.

You sound too old to be a millennial but you do a good impression. You are blaming some AA pilot for your failure to pursue aviation instead of taking personal responsibility for your own actions. Please stay in your current miserable profession, whatever that may be. I don't want to sit next to you for 4 days straight and have to listen to how the world doesn't treat you fairly and none of it is your fault.

Han Solo
01-07-2018, 05:23 AM
I'd also like to point out to those who have been clamoring about the high salaried corporate workers and what they have to go through. Many of us in the majors had far worse than that high-paying corporate job for a pathetic pittance of the salary.

I moved 14 times in 21 years, my daughter went to 5 different schools by the time she was a sophomore in high school, my wife could never get a job or friends she could keep, I was literally thousands of miles away for 15 of the first 18 months of my son's life, when I was at home I regularly worked 70 hour weeks, was tied to my phone, and had a CAC enabled keyboard on my home computer to answer emails at all times of the day and night. And oh yeah, I got shot at occasionally and had many friends killed in both combat and training.

This is not intended as a woe is me sob story. I volunteered for what I did, much of it I hated but some of it made up the absolute best times of my life. To try and diminish what a major airline pilot earns because we're not tied to a smart phone and we get actual days off is a ridiculous line of argument. Most of us have paid some sort of dues to get to where we are, and we're worth what we earn. Even more importantly; almost none of us are from old money, we didn't get our jobs because of privilege or some old-boy network or who was in our fraternity in college -- we earned it.

busdriver12
01-07-2018, 05:45 AM
^^Really good post, Han.

My youngest son has said that he would love to have my job....but he doesn't want to do what it took to get here. Even he realizes you don't start out as a widebody captain. Way too much hard work and difficult times to get to this position.

at6d
01-07-2018, 07:33 AM
^^Really good post, Han.

My youngest son has said that he would love to have my job....but he doesn't want to do what it took to get here. Even he realizes you don't start out as a widebody captain. Way too much hard work and difficult times to get to this position.

And it seems right now is the easiest itís been in a very long time.

Jughead135
01-07-2018, 07:59 AM
Sure, he's a senior software engineer

My son is paid $220K/yr to work 40 hour weeks and sleep in his own bed every night. He also gets unlimited paid time off, breakfast, lunch and dinner cooked, free alcohol, massages, and hundreds of thousands of $$ in stock... and he's in his twenties. Not many airline pilots with that deal.


Are they hiring??? :D

Madmagpilot
01-07-2018, 08:54 AM
1) Airline employer. UAL
2) Seat. FO
3) Equipment. Guppy
4) Years of Service with company. 12+
5) How many days you worked. 204ish
6) How many overnights you had commutable 3/4 day trips
7) How many hours you blocked 883
8) How many hours did you credit 1340
9) Expected gross income 250,000
10) Extra Pay (DC, PS, etc.)
B/C 31,000
RHA/VERBA 9,190 B/C spill...1,340 UA
Profit share 27,200

Total w/o per diem. 318,730

Hilltopper89
01-07-2018, 08:57 AM
This is quite possibly the most revolting thread every January.

PotatoChip
01-07-2018, 09:24 AM
This is quite possibly the most revolting thread every January.

How so??
(Filler)

RJSAviator76
01-07-2018, 09:31 AM
This is quite possibly the most revolting thread every January.



Whatís wrong with peers sharing info? All this thread does is raise a bit of awareness among line pilots as to what itís really like elsewhere.

Aside from the occasional thread drift, itís a fantastic thread.



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