Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : Chances?


armypilot
01-01-2018, 01:01 AM
I was curious what the chances are for an Army rotary/fixed wing pilot (2000 hrs fixed wing/2400 hrs rotary) to get an interview invite without any jet time?

All my time is in the various Army C-12's. I did the Wheels Up/Part 135 thing for a minute, but still in a King Air. Currently doing the contracting thing in Afghanistan. I have a CJO from Envoy but won't be able to start until sometime in the summer due to finances and a baby due the beginning of June.

I was just curious if there was a chance to getting an interview prior to getting to Envoy?

Second question.......Are there any regionals to consider that are better than the others, or any I should stay away from? I'd highly consider Mesa knowing that I could land in IAH or DFW right off the bat. Otherwise I'll most likely be commuting to ORD or LGA with Envoy.

Thanks!!
AP


Proximity
01-01-2018, 04:19 AM
I'd do Envoy before Mesa. At Envoy you have the flow to AA, and it's known as a better company overall. I can't imagine it would take long to get DFW as a base.

tr4a
01-01-2018, 07:45 AM
The old requirement was 1,000 hours PIC TURBINE time. Jet or turboprop.


saab2000
01-01-2018, 07:56 AM
I have flown with a number of folks here who never flew a jet before coming to Southwest.

Put in your application, keep it current and up to date on Pilot Credentials and hope for that e-mail.

You won't get an interview if you don't apply.

armypilot
01-01-2018, 12:47 PM
Oh believe me, my app is in and I update my Pilot Credentials quite frequently. I applied to every application window this past year, but due to my schedule wasn’t able to attend WAI or OBAP and wasn’t quick enough on my computer to secure a spot to any of the in house events. I know it’s not the same as previous conferences, but I will be attending WAI this year. I was just looking for that little bit of hope to hang onto that SAAB2000 was able to provide.

More specifically on me, retired Army, 4 yr degree, and over 1000 hrs fixed wing PIC. However I was never an instructor or anything like that. I meet all the old requirements, but there’s not really anything that truly makes my resume stand out unfortunately.

Otterbox
01-01-2018, 01:49 PM
Oh believe me, my app is in and I update my Pilot Credentials quite frequently. I applied to every application window this past year, but due to my schedule wasn’t able to attend WAI or OBAP and wasn’t quick enough on my computer to secure a spot to any of the in house events. I know it’s not the same as previous conferences, but I will be attending WAI this year. I was just looking for that little bit of hope to hang onto that SAAB2000 was able to provide.

More specifically on me, retired Army, 4 yr degree, and over 1000 hrs fixed wing PIC. However I was never an instructor or anything like that. I meet all the old requirements, but there’s not really anything that truly makes my resume stand out unfortunately.

Last time I talked to the people department folks (Septemberish) they said as long as someone meets minimums, has a 4 year degree and a 737 type rating they’ll get an interview because those two things are the largest points grabbers the way their app is scored (they also said the type rating is no longer a requirement).

All of the guys I knew in ISR who got selected for a SWA interview had the type rating. Most of the guys from ISR I knew who interviewed got a TBNT. There was the general feeling that SWA either viewed ISR guys as mercinaries (allegedly one got called that by a female Pilot during an interview) or a flight risk to the legacies (most of the TBNT guys were at delta within 24 months).


IF you’re feeling daring you could always get a 737NG type before you start at Envoy to get yourself that check in the box and the 121 check in the box. You’re flying ISR so you’re one of those folks who could have the schedule flexibility to do it and extend a rotation 2 weeks to fund it if you really wanted to.... Either way, friends don’t let friends go to Mesa. Go to Envoy and keep you apps out.

saab2000
01-01-2018, 06:12 PM
Oh believe me, my app is in and I update my Pilot Credentials quite frequently. I applied to every application window this past year, but due to my schedule wasn’t able to attend WAI or OBAP and wasn’t quick enough on my computer to secure a spot to any of the in house events. I know it’s not the same as previous conferences, but I will be attending WAI this year. I was just looking for that little bit of hope to hang onto that SAAB2000 was able to provide.

More specifically on me, retired Army, 4 yr degree, and over 1000 hrs fixed wing PIC. However I was never an instructor or anything like that. I meet all the old requirements, but there’s not really anything that truly makes my resume stand out unfortunately.

I've never instructed either. I did have a 737 type rating and had the advantage of having time on type. So I would maybe pursue those opportunities if they're available. Check all the caveats and details though. They're usually not free.

If they know you're their kind of employee and know you'll breeze through training you'll likely get a call. There are a few places which train on the 737 right now and they're hiring.

I never knew I wanted SWA until they called me and I interviewed. Never talked to them at a career fair but when they called, I answered and I'm glad I did. Hang in there and look at all the byways to the destination you don't even know you're looking for. This is the best job I've ever had and while it's not perfect, it's pretty damn good. I'm on board and probably will be until I'm done flying.

RckyMtHigh
01-01-2018, 07:16 PM
All of the guys I knew in ISR who got selected for a SWA interview had the type rating. Most of the guys from ISR I knew who interviewed got a TBNT. There was the general feeling that SWA either viewed ISR guys as mercinaries (allegedly one got called that by a female Pilot during an interview) or a flight risk to the legacies (most of the TBNT guys were at delta within 24 months.

Personally know of several ISR guys interviewed and hired here. None were type rated so don’t be discouraged by that. However, it’s all about max points on your app to get past the computer gatekeeper. That applies not only at SWA but really everywhere worth going as a career destination. If you are only building time and not adding to your application (instructor, safety, new type ratings, etc) then you should look at doing something different like getting that 121 box checked and/or a 737 type rating box checked.

BarrySeal
01-01-2018, 07:20 PM
I have flown with a number of folks here who never flew a jet before coming to Southwest.

Put in your application, keep it current and up to date on Pilot Credentials and hope for that e-mail.

You won't get an interview if you don't apply.

YEARS ago, some folks flew EMB Banderantes for ASA from SJT to DFW at 9000 feet and got hired at SWA

BarrySeal
01-01-2018, 07:21 PM
Last time I talked to the people department folks (Septemberish) they said as long as someone meets minimums, has a 4 year degree and a 737 type rating they’ll get an interview because those two things are the largest points grabbers the way their app is scored (they also said the type rating is no longer a requirement).

All of the guys I knew in ISR who got selected for a SWA interview had the type rating. Most of the guys from ISR I knew who interviewed got a TBNT. There was the general feeling that SWA either viewed ISR guys as mercinaries (allegedly one got called that by a female Pilot during an interview) or a flight risk to the legacies (most of the TBNT guys were at delta within 24 months).


IF you’re feeling daring you could always get a 737NG type before you start at Envoy to get yourself that check in the box and the 121 check in the box. You’re flying ISR so you’re one of those folks who could have the schedule flexibility to do it and extend a rotation 2 weeks to fund it if you really wanted to.... Either way, friends don’t let friends go to Mesa. Go to Envoy and keep you apps out.

ISR dudes can be "different" you and I both know that.

armypilot
01-02-2018, 01:25 AM
Thank you for the encouragement and words of advice guys. I think I’m going to look into getting the 737 type taken care of. I know having time in type looks better, but it’s at least a block to check off. I believe the GI Bill will cover a pretty good portion of the cost. I know CAE in Dallas has a course, are there any other schools out there you’d recommend?

As stated before, I have an offer from Envoy. I also received an offer from Swift Air, a 121 supplemental flying 737 classics. Any advice on deciding between those two?

saab2000
01-02-2018, 04:04 AM
Thank you for the encouragement and words of advice guys. I think I’m going to look into getting the 737 type taken care of. I know having time in type looks better, but it’s at least a block to check off. I believe the GI Bill will cover a pretty good portion of the cost. I know CAE in Dallas has a course, are there any other schools out there you’d recommend?

As stated before, I have an offer from Envoy. I also received an offer from Swift Air, a 121 supplemental flying 737 classics. Any advice on deciding between those two?

Envoy is probably a better job. Swift Air gets you a type rating and time on type. I don't know anything Swift Air but I did work for a regional like Envoy for a long time. By most accounts, Envoy is a decent place to work.

dash8driver
01-02-2018, 06:46 AM
Added bonus to getting your type: You’ll wind up with a few extra days off during training while your classmates do their orals. Only 4/28 in our class were already typed so it may help set you apart but definitely not required.

hoover
01-02-2018, 07:57 PM
Swift is a charter company that works under 121 supplemental rules. They have both classic and NG 737s. You'd get typed and have time on type but there really isn't any work rules and pay will suck. You'll make more at envoy and have some kind of work rules.
The main problem with swift or any 121 supplemental is that no one has ever heard of them. Especially those doing the hiring. It's very hard for them to understand what those companies do and most people look down on them. At least with envoy you're a known commodity. The hiring board won't be worried about you past training or the type of flying they've never done.
That being said I came from a supplemental carrier and made it but rarely as in almost never does anyone know who I worked for and have no idea about the type of flying I did. It was a hard sell to the hiring board.

saab2000
01-03-2018, 03:48 AM
Swift is a charter company that works under 121 supplemental rules. They have both classic and NG 737s. You'd get typed and have time on type but there really isn't any work rules and pay will suck. You'll make more at envoy and have some kind of work rules.
The main problem with swift or any 121 supplemental is that no one has ever heard of them. Especially those doing the hiring. It's very hard for them to understand what those companies do and most people look down on them. At least with envoy you're a known commodity. The hiring board won't be worried about you past training or the type of flying they've never done.
That being said I came from a supplemental carrier and made it but rarely as in almost never does anyone know who I worked for and have no idea about the type of flying I did. It was a hard sell to the hiring board.

That's an interesting take. I spent a year with Sun Country doing a mix of charter and scheduled flying. When I interviewed 13 months ago everyone knew Sun Country and was curious about it. Of course, they were also curious why I was there only a year. I told them nothing but good about my experience (which was generally very true - I enjoyed my year there) and why I thought Southwest was a unexpected, and better, opportunity for me and my career and what I thought I would bring to Southwest (so it's not all about me).

I think if they think you went to Swift just for the type rating or to get noticed at Southwest it might not work out the way you hope. At my age (20+ years in the industry and a late start) I'm rounding 3rd based in my career and when I went to Sun Country it was a move home for me and I expected it could very possibly be my last job.

I agree that Envoy will have vastly better work rules and they're a known airline. Don't know how long upgrade would be. Regionals are what they are. But there are better and worse ones and from everything I've heard, Envoy was always one of the better ones. Not a bad place to park for a while.

hoover
01-03-2018, 08:00 AM
I think sun country is well known and respected. People see their ticket counters and they sell their own tickets. Other charter companies like swift do not and have no name recognition because of it.

SLCFlyer
01-06-2018, 03:59 PM
There were several ISR guys in my class and the next class including some who had only flown helos and C-12s. Apply and take your chances.

underpaidpic
01-06-2018, 06:55 PM
Best place to get the 737 type?

Castle Bravo
01-07-2018, 07:33 AM
There were several ISR guys in my class and the next class including some who had only flown helos and C-12s. Apply and take your chances.

You mean contract ISR guys flying King Airs? Do you know ballpark how many hours they had?

armypilot
01-07-2018, 10:19 AM
I know most companies want to see time in type, but what is the general consensus from Southwest of just getting a 737 type without any experience in it?

slimothy
01-07-2018, 02:28 PM
I know most companies want to see time in type, but what is the general consensus from Southwest of just getting a 737 type without any experience in it?

I just got invited to interview for the second time, I have the type, but no time in the 737. I’ve got a dozen or so mil buddies who all got hired with the type but no time.

Cali Pilot
01-07-2018, 04:46 PM
Last time I talked to the people department folks (Septemberish) they said as long as someone meets minimums, has a 4 year degree and a 737 type rating they’ll get an interview because those two things are the largest points grabbers the way their app is scored (they also said the type rating is no longer a requirement).

All of the guys I knew in ISR who got selected for a SWA interview had the type rating. Most of the guys from ISR I knew who interviewed got a TBNT. There was the general feeling that SWA either viewed ISR guys as mercinaries (allegedly one got called that by a female Pilot during an interview) or a flight risk to the legacies (most of the TBNT guys were at delta within 24 months).


IF you’re feeling daring you could always get a 737NG type before you start at Envoy to get yourself that check in the box and the 121 check in the box. You’re flying ISR so you’re one of those folks who could have the schedule flexibility to do it and extend a rotation 2 weeks to fund it if you really wanted to.... Either way, friends don’t let friends go to Mesa. Go to Envoy and keep you apps out.
Thanks for the advice, Did the people department say how many points are given to returning old SWA employees? i was a ramp agent/station trainer in 2002 and i want to return as a first officer. I left to pursue my ratings and flight hours . Im currently a 135 ops Training/standards captain with many years of previous 121 SIC experience.

Downside is i don't have a 4 year degree (currently finishing it) and i don't have the 737 type:(

Turbine
01-08-2018, 08:21 PM
Thanks for the advice, Did the people department say how many points are given to returning old SWA employees? i was a ramp agent/station trainer in 2002 and i want to return as a first officer. I left to pursue my ratings and flight hours . Im currently a 135 ops Training/standards captain with many years of previous 121 SIC experience.

Downside is i don't have a 4 year degree (currently finishing it) and i don't have the 737 type:(

Not sure about exact points but being a previous employee in good standing when you left would be a big plus. Even better if you have a letter of rec from your previous Southwest supervisor or manager etc.
With 121 time and 135 training/standards captain, It will get close to making up for the degree. The degree is certainly more important than the type. Maybe enroll somewhere so they can see you are working on it.

PropCop
01-09-2018, 08:30 AM
I know most companies want to see time in type, but what is the general consensus from Southwest of just getting a 737 type without any experience in it?

Prior army 60 IP like you it sounds like. I did the type and have zero time in it. Didn’t “need” the type but I did it just to help speed things along. It worked for me. Happened fast too...not sure if type had anything to do with it or not. I did have friends tell me, that if I got the type, I would get looked at much faster...resume would rise to the top faster.....just what I was told. Appears to have worked. But I’m also good-looking, cool to hang out with and interview very well... ;)

afxc1627
01-09-2018, 08:46 AM
Prior army 60 IP like you it sounds like. I did the type and have zero time in it. Didn’t “need” the type but I did it just to help speed things along. It worked for me. Happened fast too...not sure if type had anything to do with it or not. I did have friends tell me, that if I got the type, I would get looked at much faster...resume would rise to the top faster.....just what I was told. Appears to have worked. But I’m also good-looking, cool to hang out with and interview very well... ;)


You forgot modest...

slimothy
01-09-2018, 08:54 AM
Prior army 60 IP like you it sounds like. I did the type and have zero time in it. Didn’t “need” the type but I did it just to help speed things along. It worked for me. Happened fast too...not sure if type had anything to do with it or not. I did have friends tell me, that if I got the type, I would get looked at much faster...resume would rise to the top faster.....just what I was told. Appears to have worked. But I’m also good-looking, cool to hang out with and interview very well... ;)

I want to party with this guy.

ZapBrannigan
01-09-2018, 03:40 PM
You forgot modest...


Callsign “Hollywood”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

barabek
01-09-2018, 05:54 PM
Callsign “Hollywood”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Better call sign "Trump", or is it too genius?