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View Full Version : Trans States


coldpilot
03-26-2007, 07:18 AM
Hey guys just a few questions about Trans States...

1. How long does it take to hold a line?
2. Out of training are you more likely to get STL or RIC as a base?
3. Is it feasible to commute while on reserve?
4. Are a good percentage of the lines commutable?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


reevesofskyking
03-26-2007, 08:04 AM
1.Two months or less right now
2.About half and half, and then you could bid something else in get it in a month or two
3.Not really, but it can be done on your days off
4.No

Reeves

Shrek
03-26-2007, 08:58 AM
You want HELP coldpilot? - Don't go there. ANY other regional would be better right now than at a TSH airline (TSA or GoJet).


CHQ is paying 1700 bux TAKEHOME to work there from day one.


coldpilot
03-26-2007, 09:46 AM
GoJet is out of the question. I have done my homework on that company. Why not Trans States though? Seems like the opportunity there is to upgrade quickly and get the important PIC time. I would just like some more insight; after all you guys are the ones that are out there in the industry right now. One more thing, does anyone know if there is a training contract at TSA?

reevesofskyking
03-26-2007, 09:58 AM
coldpilot

No training contract. go train go somehere else if you are low time
TSA is not that bad, good hard training, and if you live in stl or ric not too bad then

but for me living in indiana it gets to be a pain with scheduling already
you will work alot though and they are real short

But I am kinda on the same page with everyone else now, get in get out
or dont go at all, but I am not quite ready to say that, I have glad that I got the training that I got, I am confident that the training I got will do me well anywhere else

TSA is now giving new hirers 400 a month on top of a 60 hour guarentee a month for living expenses.

The pilot groups is awsome though.

JJSmooth
03-26-2007, 10:03 AM
If you did your homework on Blowjets then you know they are owned by Trans States. TSA does not give you a place to stay during training.(unless they changed that recently) They are pretty much taking any clown off the street right now with a multi commercial. I interviewed there last year. Out of about 14 people I interviewed with, I think all of us got offered the job. The interview was a joke. I think they are just looking for warm bodies with the right certificates. Thank god 4 days after they offered me the job I got on with Xjet. I heard the December 4th class at TSA had some huge amount of washouts in it. You don't wanna go somewhere with crappy training and end up with a training failure on your record.
My point is there are several excellent airlines with short upgrades that are aggressively hiring right now. Be patient and wait for a good offer to come by.

Koolaidman
03-26-2007, 10:10 AM
The short upgrade is a myth. Don't believe. Plus, they will just send you back to the right seat like they did around this time last year. Upgrade in March, back to the right seat in July. Ask around about the furloughs last year.

coldpilot
03-26-2007, 10:14 AM
I'm pretty low time. I am about to graduate from UND in August and they were here earlier this month giving a presentation. Their mins are "400TT and 50ME" but said they would hire with lower times and if you were not going to graduate until August you could still interview and if hired you would be given a class date for after graduation. I would like to get on with XJET but don't quite have the time yet. I have a resume in at a flight school back home in TX as well. Just weighing the options to see if I should keep instructing or head over to TSA for the time being.

POPA
03-26-2007, 11:13 AM
Go to TSA, get your time, and get out.
There's no training contract, and CHQ is offering a $2500 bonus if you're current & qualified on the 145.

johnso29
03-26-2007, 11:16 AM
All I can tell you is this. I live in STL and I wouldn't even give them my resume. QOL doesn't exist, contract enforcement doesn't exist, upgrade in less than 4 years doesn't exist, crew scheduling not screwing you over doesn't exist, commutability doesn't exist...need I go on? You will not have a quick upgrade. The only way I would even recommend you going there is to go and get 145 time as an FO only to leave and go to somewhere else like XJET, CHQ, etc. It is not a good company to work for, and you will regret going for any other reason than getting a 145 SIC Type and some right seat 121 experience.

flynavyj
03-26-2007, 11:43 AM
It's a hard call, but here goes...

I went through back w/ POPA first class after the furloughs, since then there's been a high washout rate, which isn't good. Some say it's because of their hiring of low timers, some because the training dept. sux. I think a lot of the washouts could be attributed to people not taking the training seriously, and another part to flight safety instructors. The experience gained could be very helpful if you successfully complete your training, as you'll become very marketable to everyone, however...if you washout, you become less marketable to most, which can really hurt you in the future.

I know when i was hired, i was worried because if i had washed out, i didn't have enough flight time to have any other options besides instructing again. So...Depends on how ready you really feel you are. As far as the company, its not to terrible, they are currently paying for your hotel during training, life on reserve sux, life off is better, typical lines are having about 11-12 days off, and average 85-95 hrs. Best of luck

detc
03-26-2007, 12:08 PM
I honestly have to say that if a company is lowering it's minimums constantly and going to flight schools trying to pull very low time people, you may want to think twice. If they say they have low minimums lower them even more for you because they 'really want you', there should be a couple red flags.

If a total stranger stopped you on the street and says he's got these great widgets that are superior to every other widget and offers you a 'deal' for a really low price, are you gonna be suspicious? Now you decide you want to take him up on that deal, but don't have quite that much in your wallet, but he says, "For you, we can make that work." Are you going to be suspicious?

If the company has to make deals to get employees, you should question why that is. Many companies never 'recruit' pilots because they don't have to. People just want to go there.

I've got some ocean-front property in Arizona that I'd love to make you a deal for...I'll even throw in a shovel for the sand....

coldpilot
03-26-2007, 01:00 PM
Everyone has quite a different opinion. Can't say I didn't expect it though. You all have very valid points Thanks for all of your input. It is greatly appreciated. I'll let you know how the job hunt goes.

WestCoaster
03-26-2007, 01:52 PM
If you are just graduating from UND this year, you won't find any other airline that would hire you to fly a jet. The closest you could get would be applying to piedmont with their 300TT offer to UND grads. TSA has a history of not taking care of its employees, but in my opinion, if your goal is to get flight time and move on in 2-3 years, TSA is a decent place to go. And they are paying for housing now, in addition to 60hr/mo FO pay during training.

reevesofskyking
03-26-2007, 02:25 PM
if you want flight time and move in a few months.
TSA is still a place to go

I thought POPA had been around longer, I had friends in his class, and he knows how it is going now.
I was in the DEC class. and the washout comment was spot on. It was either due to no experince, no ability to make a new experince. or people realizing the air lines is not what they want.
All in all there was a 50 percent washout of my class.

I think of myself of have average learning ability in airplanes, and I made it through, and it was tough, and I dont want to do it again.
but it can be done by low timers.

FlyNavyJ:
I was in the same boat that you were in it sounds, I would not had enough time to get hired somewhere else if I washed out.

But as a side note:
every resume that I sent out to others at the same time I sent mine out to TSA has called or emailed and invited me for an interview.
Someone is going to ask why I did not leave.
at the time I had not applied to expressjet, chq,
that is where I want to go now.

Reeves

XJPILOT1
03-26-2007, 02:29 PM
MESABA...I never looked at any other. Can't beat how they treat you. Sure the last few years have been rough but looking at how the other regionals treat their pilots, I consider myself lucky!

ScaryKite
03-26-2007, 02:50 PM
If you are from Texas wait for Xjet of CHQ, it wouldnt hurt to actually go out there and instruct for more than 100 hours and get "some" experience before you attempt 121 training in a complex turbojet. TSA is an "ok" opportunity, but keep in mind, some things are going to hit the fan there this summer. When they hire street captains, the attrition is so bad there on the CA and fo side, they are going to have a hard time staying afloat. Keep in mind Hulas is a business man and he has a lot of cash sitting around to bail himself out of any jam. But crew shortages are a huge problem. TSA has done some weird stuff in the past two years. Furlough, hire, hire, hire, then they dropped their upgrade mins. Things are definately unstable. Dont ever chase an upgrade, find a good company thats going to suit your lifestyle. Because even with PIC time, you might get stuck at a regional for a decade, so it might as well be a "better" regional with a decent QOL. Yeah upgrade time is low at TSA right now, but after they hire street captains, there is no telling what might happen, they may get so many that they put people back in the right seat. TSA is a kneejerk reaction type of company that reacts to what just happened instead of trying to plan ahead. I left TSA last month, and i am already questioning if it was a good move or not. I used TSA as a CFI grad school to get to the regional that I am at now. Everything is so dynamic and the industry can change in a matter of days. Just two years ago, it was very competitive to get any regional job. Now if you have a Commercial multi, a medical and a pulse you can get on anywhere. The cards are in your hand to go where you want. Research all the companies that you are interested in in full and pick one that is going to suit you the best. Look at things like stability and QOL, compared to hiring mins and upgrade times. Just my two cents.

s10an
03-26-2007, 04:01 PM
coldpilot

TSA is now giving new hirers 400 a month on top of a 60 hour guarentee a month for living expenses.


When did this kick in?

reevesofskyking
03-26-2007, 04:19 PM
When did this kick in?

I had a jumpseater that is in the march class, and that is what he said they were giving his class.

I have heard this from a few of the checkairman as well

coldpilot
03-26-2007, 05:33 PM
Like I had mentioned earlier I would like to get on with XJET. I have been instructing here at UND since August and I am just trying to decide if I should keep instructing or jump on with TSA and build enough time to go where I want to go. TSA is not a place I had imagined staying for an extended period of time.

reevesofskyking
03-26-2007, 07:44 PM
I really dont think there should be people our age with in reason who should be planning to spend the rest of their life at TSA

but coldpilot, I think you are doing the right thing. Trying to get every bit of info you can to make your choice.

This thread has seemed to stay pretty neutral, and informitive.

I can say right now, that I niether hate it or love it,
and if you have a case of SJS, then it will get it out of your system, and then you will be more interested in what life really means to you.

Even now or after TSA, I still love flying.
Now thinking about the days of airport reserve, bad trips, not being home enough and so on and so on can make it hard to get yourself to the airport without quitting.
But once I am there I have a good time.


I am sure there are others around here that are having the same feelings, and I hope that is semi normal or I might be scewed from the word go if those feelings dont change over time.

coldpilot
03-26-2007, 08:32 PM
It's very funny you mention that. The gentleman from TSA that spoke to us said something along the lines of "Really, now we know none of you want to spend your life at a regional. We know that the regional's are a stepping stone, so where do you really want to go?" He then asked every person in the room what their goals were. Mine is not to make a career out of any regional.

I can assure you it is not SJS. It doesn't really matter to me what I fly. I am just trying to open as many doors as possible so right after graduation I can leave Grand Forks. It just isn't my kind of town. I'm ready to head back to a big city.

Everyone has those days where they don't want to go to work. I have had many of them. It comes from a variety of different things. Not getting any work, problem students, etc. It is one of the reasons I have been digging for information. By no means when I started this thread did I have my heart set on TSA; I just saw it as an option since they will be here in mid-April to do some hiring for future classes. So I decided to look into it. I have the application packet and I will fill it out and probably go interview just for the experience anyway. Only time will tell what will happen in the industry. Many opportunities have opened up for our graduates since January as I am sure many more will by the time I graduate.

Like I said I am just exploring my options and I appreciate everyone's input in helping me explore them. It has been very helpful.

undsioux1
03-26-2007, 10:38 PM
It's very funny you mention that. The gentleman from TSA that spoke to us said something along the lines of "Really, now we know none of you want to spend your life at a regional. We know that the regional's are a stepping stone, so where do you really want to go?" He then asked every person in the room what their goals were. Mine is not to make a career out of any regional.

I can assure you it is not SJS. It doesn't really matter to me what I fly. I am just trying to open as many doors as possible so right after graduation I can leave Grand Forks. It just isn't my kind of town. I'm ready to head back to a big city.

Everyone has those days where they don't want to go to work. I have had many of them. It comes from a variety of different things. Not getting any work, problem students, etc. It is one of the reasons I have been digging for information. By no means when I started this thread did I have my heart set on TSA; I just saw it as an option since they will be here in mid-April to do some hiring for future classes. So I decided to look into it. I have the application packet and I will fill it out and probably go interview just for the experience anyway. Only time will tell what will happen in the industry. Many opportunities have opened up for our graduates since January as I am sure many more will by the time I graduate.

Like I said I am just exploring my options and I appreciate everyone's input in helping me explore them. It has been very helpful.

I'm debating on applying in april and taking a late class date, sometime in August. I would like to stay at UND for the summer and see what other options open up. It could be good interview experience, but from what I hear from the March applicants it wont be much of an interview at all. Lots of airlines just dropped their mins., ASA's posted mins are now 400/50 with the crj class which was the same as TSA's posted mins. Defidently lots of options out there. Heck compared to some of the recent pinnacle hires, you could be "high time" :confused: ;)

undsioux1
03-26-2007, 10:40 PM
How can TSA's upgrade time be greater than 4 years if they are losing pilots like crazy? Is it because they may have to hire street captains soon? The guy at the information session made it sound like 2-3 years for an upgrade, but then again he did say CASS would be there within 30 days. Id like to hear from some of the current guys on training and what their scope on the whole deal is.

Koolaidman
03-26-2007, 10:48 PM
They said CASS is around the corner a year ago when I was there. Street Captains over the summer? I find that extremely hard to believe. Last time I checked, the only people that left TSA were about five Captains a month and about the last 15 FO's on the list. 3 years minimum for an upgrade at TSA would sound accurate in my opinion. Can someone who actually knows the facts fill us in? I have a friend who was a January 2005 new hire, and the last time I spoke with him he was half way up the list.

s10an
03-27-2007, 01:27 AM
Upgrades in Jan 07 had 3 years seniority. I would assume it could go down since they lowerd mins for capt.

POPA
03-27-2007, 02:26 AM
Last time I checked, the only people that left TSA were about five Captains a month and about the last 15 FO's on the list. 3 years minimum for an upgrade at TSA would sound accurate in my opinion. Can someone who actually knows the facts fill us in? I have a friend who was a January 2005 new hire, and the last time I spoke with him he was half way up the list.

That was a year ago.
I jumped up 20 numbers between March and April; I'd say it was probably a 50-50 split between captains and FOs. Pilots have started leaving TSA at an alarming rate. FOs are going to other regionals, and CAs are going to majors or places like CitationShares/NetJets.
As far as the street captains go, I heard it straight from a flight manager.

Fly IFR
03-27-2007, 06:43 AM
I find it funny how erveryone claims that TSA will hire basically anyone with a commercial and multi (or at least interview them). My friend who had about 450tt and 50multi sent his resume there about a month ago even though he didnt want to go there and he still didnt hear anything back. Why would they pass him up for someone with 300 and 10 for example? Just trying to figure out how that airline works, any input would be great so I can let him know.

POPA
03-27-2007, 06:53 AM
I find it funny how erveryone claims that TSA will hire basically anyone with a commercial and multi (or at least interview them). My friend who had about 450tt and 50multi sent his resume there about a month ago even though he didnt want to go there and he still didnt hear anything back. Why would they pass him up for someone with 300 and 10 for example? Just trying to figure out how that airline works, any input would be great so I can let him know.

His resume probably got lost in the shuffle.
Why bother sending your resume somewhere you don't want to go?

Fly IFR
03-27-2007, 07:55 AM
His resume probably got lost in the shuffle.
Why bother sending your resume somewhere you don't want to go?
Just to see if he would get a response because he really didnt believe that people were getting hired with such low times, and this pretty much proves his point.

POPA
03-27-2007, 08:02 AM
Just to see if he would get a response because he really didnt believe that people were getting hired with such low times, and this pretty much proves his point.

I had 425/26 when I got on the Hulas Express.

DMEarc
03-27-2007, 08:16 AM
I'm pretty low time.

Exactly how low?

Fly IFR
03-27-2007, 08:40 AM
I had 425/26 when I got on the Hulas Express.
Hey POPA, how long ago was that, and did you go through some sort of bridge program?

s10an
03-27-2007, 09:53 AM
Just to see if he would get a response because he really didnt believe that people were getting hired with such low times, and this pretty much proves his point.

I wouldnt say your friend proved any point. In jan class there was 5-6 with less than 500/50.

Maybe his resume looks like crap, needs a spell check or something like that. Or it might be lost between all others. He should call to confirm they have it.

coldpilot
03-27-2007, 09:54 AM
Exactly how low?

350TT/30ME

ASA's posted mins are now 400/50 with the crj class which was the same as TSA's posted mins. Defidently lots of options out there. Heck compared to some of the recent pinnacle hires, you could be "high time" :confused: ;)

Yeah I considered ASA also. I have interviewed with Capt. Robertson there a couple times for the internship. Never got it but seems like a good company to go to right now. A lot of our instructors have left for there in the past month. The Pinnacle thing is rediculous. Hiring guys with no experience outside the UND bubble and no experience instructing. I think that is just crazy. Makes you wonder if they made it though training. I will be sticking around this summer and instructing while I take my last three classes. I'm sure many opportunities will open in the next 4 months.

POPA
03-27-2007, 10:08 AM
Hey POPA, how long ago was that, and did you go through some sort of bridge program?

Went through the Sept '06 class.
I graduated from Purdue, which isn't a bridge program per se.

Koolaidman
03-27-2007, 10:12 AM
Even though people are leaving Trans States, I still wouldn't count on a quick upgrade. The same people who are telling you quick upgrade are the same people who apparently didn't know furloughs were coming last year. And, this is also a statement from a company who goes from hiring, to furloughing, to hiring all within a span of THREE months! You can't trust ANYTHING that ANYONE has to say at that company. Plan on three years and if you get it quicker, you better hope they don't send you back to the right seat!

You have to watch out for the kind Kool Aid you are drinking when you decide to drink the Uncle H Kool Aid!

BURflyer
03-27-2007, 10:20 AM
It's very funny you mention that. The gentleman from TSA that spoke to us said something along the lines of "Really, now we know none of you want to spend your life at a regional. We know that the regional's are a stepping stone, so where do you really want to go?" He then asked every person in the room what their goals were. Mine is not to make a career out of any regional.



Holly crap they actually said that?? That pretty much sums up what TSA is. I think you should find it offensive that companies such as these come to colleges where SJSers are most likely found. I think you should have stood up and said "cut the crap and tell us about what it's really like to fly for a low tier regional, and also tell us why you can't fill seats and are resorting to low timers like us?"

POPA
03-27-2007, 10:21 AM
Even though people are leaving Trans States, I still wouldn't count on a quick upgrade. The same people who are telling you quick upgrade are the same people who apparently didn't know furloughs were coming last year. And, this is also a statement from a company who goes from hiring, to furloughing, to hiring all within a span of THREE months! You can't trust ANYTHING that ANYONE has to say at that company. Plan on three years and if you get it quicker, you better hope they don't send you back to the right seat!

You have to watch out for the kind Kool Aid you are drinking when you decide to drink the Uncle H Kool Aid!

Quick upgrades are definitely in the near future at TSA, if you've got the time. However, the trick is to get your time and get out of TSA before your number comes up for upgrade.

coldpilot
03-27-2007, 10:25 AM
Holly crap they actually said that?? That pretty much sums up what TSA is. I think you should find it offensive that companies such as these come to colleges where SJSers are most likely found. I think you should have stood up and said "cut the crap and tell us about what it's really like to fly for a low tier regional, and also tell us why you can't fill seats and are resorting to low timers like us?"

They are giving another presentation in mid-April. I'm sure it will be similar to the last one. The thing is that when they come back in April it is during our annual aerospace career fair and many other companies will be here as well so you can go from booth to booth and see who has what to offer. Other regionals that will be attending are Air Wisconsin, ASA, Colgan, Horizon, Mesa, Mesaba, Pinnacle, and Skywest. A majority of them will be doing interviews and sim evals while they are here.

BURflyer
03-27-2007, 10:42 AM
Oh and I'm sure at the other meeting after you're all done planning your successful futures as 747 captains you can all sing Cumbayaa. All that the industry asks is that pilots shouldn't accept low pay and low standards all in the name of a quick job. Many will not be able to resist the temptations, too bad for them, they're in for a long ride.

ScaryKite
03-27-2007, 12:11 PM
Even though people are leaving Trans States, I still wouldn't count on a quick upgrade. The same people who are telling you quick upgrade are the same people who apparently didn't know furloughs were coming last year. And, this is also a statement from a company who goes from hiring, to furloughing, to hiring all within a span of THREE months! You can't trust ANYTHING that ANYONE has to say at that company. Plan on three years and if you get it quicker, you better hope they don't send you back to the right seat!

You have to watch out for the kind Kool Aid you are drinking when you decide to drink the Uncle H Kool Aid!


that just shows you how poorly managed that company is. Noone in upper management has a college degree. You should see some of the memos that are put out. I heard it was Mr. FO that decided to furlough, the flight managers EP, and MB told them, DO NOT FURLOUGH. You will spook the pilot group. FO told them to do their jobs and leave the decisions to them and furlough. And the flight managers called it. Management was just looking at the numbers and wanted to furlough to save a penny, it ended up costing them millions in training costs. Instead of looking at the current market situation, which was HoJet was growing and getting more business, TSA furloughed when every other "better" regional, CHQ, skywest, Xjet and Airwisconsin were all hiring. They thought they could furlough, treat their pilots like poo and then they would come crawling back when they recalled. Any exec with a brain could have taken a 99 cent calculator and figure that 50 fos at $2000 a month, not to mention they were all brand new and they had just been typed in the airplane, so lets say 50 fos at $2000 + 15000ish for the sim time = $850,000. THey furloughed and only 42 came back, then the mass attrition came and they had to hire 39 in sept, 25 in october, 25 in november, 25 in december, and then whatever they have had since, they have had a class a mont, since september of 06. Not to mention most people that were hired, like myself, used TSA and their bonehead logistical skills, to get some jet time to go to other regionals. So yeah RL will put out articles about how they save pennies on garbage bags, and that adds up over a year. But their labor costs and attrition are killing them. if they would just give a little, they will save a lot. But they dont see it that way. They are financial idiots, granted Hulas has made a buttload of money. He could be making a lot more if they just put a 5th grade education behind their decision making. TSA would build a million dollar bridge to pick up a dime. Now all regionals have their problems, but TSA sticks out as a poorly managed company, and yeah you can go there in anticipation of leaving to go somewhere else, but with the demand of pilots right now, just wait and go where you want to go in the first place. If i could go back thats what i would have done. just my 2 cents.

AV8ER
03-27-2007, 12:47 PM
THey furloughed and only 42 came back, then the mass attrition came and they had to hire 39 in sept, 25 in october, 25 in november, 25 in december, and then whatever they have had since, they have had a class a mont, since september of 06. .


Only 6 or 7 came back...no joke.

ScaryKite
03-27-2007, 01:01 PM
yeah i thought the official number was 8, but 6 or 7 is probably right. But anyways, you cant furlough 50 for 40 days, and then call them back and expect them to not laugh in your face. ******* TSA and their shenanigans!

POPA
03-27-2007, 01:04 PM
The number I heard was eight out of 60.

ScaryKite
03-27-2007, 01:14 PM
still it was a low percentage and I think a point was made and management learned something. if I were Hulas I would have fired FO on the spot for making such a bonehead call! Also If i were hulas I would take all my money and give it charity, because it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven!