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View Full Version : New hire class sizes


InHouse
01-04-2018, 04:36 AM
Does anyone have info on how the class sizes are panning out? I know a few people who were planning for Envoy, but switched to Endeavor with their new contract. Hopefully the supply/demand curve prompts a pay scale that is equal, if not better. If we want to compete, we got to get in the game.

Planning on 900 new hires this year, right?


Seaplane
01-04-2018, 05:09 AM
I donít understand why they would even take the chance of having class numbers drop. Raise the pay to respond to Endeavor and donít risk losing new hires.

CaptJackSparrow
01-04-2018, 05:09 AM
Planning on 900 new hires this year, right?

LOL not with the forced upgrades, current pay scale, and pitiful reserve rules...


slip2land
01-04-2018, 06:20 AM
Last class was 58...75 scheduled for first class in January

Jersdawg
01-04-2018, 06:51 AM
I donít understand why they would even take the chance of having class numbers drop. Raise the pay to respond to Endeavor and donít risk losing new hires.

Agreed. They're playing with fire not doing this and a couple months from now after they clear the backlog of new hires I think we will see the numbers start to drop.

Pedro4President
01-04-2018, 07:38 AM
I don't think we are going to have trouble with getting pilots in the door. Our only hope is that PSA and PDT struggle to get pilots. If they struggle to hire pilots then we will all likely get pay raises.

yeahbutstill
01-04-2018, 07:45 AM
With Endeavor's new pay, flow at 9 years for someone coming to Envoy today and DFW a year away for anyone planning to be Dallas based, I don't see how it would make sense to come to Envoy at this point.

3EngineTaxi
01-04-2018, 08:21 AM
I donít understand why they would even take the chance of having class numbers drop. Raise the pay to respond to ******** and donít risk losing new hires.
Take a quick look at history (2012-2016). I don't think they really care about attracting employess, as keeping pay low has been a primary objective. Attracting/retaining an adequate quantity of employees has historically been a lower priority objective.

In my opinion, it's naive to believe that "pay raises are just around the corner."

These are my personal opinions and not the opinions of any other entity or employer.

Jamesthunder
01-04-2018, 09:08 AM
In my opinion, it's naive to believe that "pay raises are just around the corner."

I think it's fair to peg it at a year from now.

flysooner9
01-04-2018, 09:19 AM
Iím considering coming back to the regionals this summer if none of the majors call before then. Envoy had been my choice the whole time but now I think Iíd rather go to Endeavor.

Forced upgrade to NY is my number one reason not to come to Envoy now. Plus the pay scale difference. Also the positive space on your second commute attemp is huge in my opinion.

E175 Driver
01-04-2018, 11:55 AM
Iím considering coming back to the regionals this summer if none of the majors call before then. Envoy had been my choice the whole time but now I think Iíd rather go to Endeavor.

Forced upgrade to NY is my number one reason not to come to Envoy now. Plus the pay scale difference. Also the positive space on your second commute attemp is huge in my opinion.

Yes, but we have flow. That is huge!

ChickHicks
01-04-2018, 01:41 PM
Yes, but we have flow. That is huge!

Thatís what she said.

flysooner9
01-04-2018, 07:23 PM
Yes, but we have flow. That is huge!

No not really. Not for a person who has a degree. 9 years is a joke. I predict any current regional pilot can be at any major of their choosing in way less then 9 years.

bigtime209
01-04-2018, 07:25 PM
No not really. Not for a person who has a degree. 9 years is a joke. I predict any current regional pilot can be at any major of their choosing in way less then 9 years.

In case you aren't familiar, this guy's a troll around here.

AZPilotMike
01-05-2018, 09:00 AM
In case you aren't familiar, this guy's a troll around here.

He may very well be but his/her point is valid. I think there are quicker ways to a mainline job in this market assuming you can check the boxes. Degree, clean record and enough time.

bigtime209
01-05-2018, 10:13 AM
He may very well be but his/her point is valid. I think there are quicker ways to a mainline job in this market assuming you can check the boxes. Degree, clean record and enough time.

No I mean the guy bragging about flow is the troll. Of course there are quicker ways to the majors than 9 years for flow.

AZPilotMike
01-05-2018, 12:25 PM
No I mean the guy bragging about flow is the troll. Of course there are quicker ways to the majors than 9 years for flow.

Oh OK, lol I get it now. Sorry for the confusion. Laughing at myself currently.

GodIsGood
01-05-2018, 05:32 PM
No not really. Not for a person who has a degree. 9 years is a joke. I predict any current regional pilot can be at any major of their choosing in way less then 9 years.

I predict that the flood gates aren't going to be nearly as wide when they raise the retirement age again. Flow is nice to have even if it is currently at 9 years. Remember, that is calculated with 0 attrition to other airlines.

pitchattitude
01-05-2018, 06:28 PM
I predict that the flood gates aren't going to be nearly as wide when they raise the retirement age again. Flow is nice to have even if it is currently at 9 years. Remember, that is calculated with 0 attrition to other airlines.
They may eventually raise the retirement to 67 to be in line with SS, but that is only two years. And the number of guys who want to keep flying and actually can is going to be a lot less with this change, if and when.

My uneducated opinion only.

YMMV

flysooner9
01-05-2018, 07:58 PM
And now republic has a TA likely on par with 9E

ORDinary
01-09-2018, 06:49 AM
Flow is nice to have even if it is currently at 9 years. Remember, that is calculated with 0 attrition to other airlines.

True, but it is also calculated assuming AA never has any training backlogs, and assuming classes in December every year, which they never have. Those things probably roughly cancel each other out, and 9 years is probably as accurate a guess as any other.

Also remember that every month where we hire more than 15-20 pilots is time added to the flow for a new hire. So it is 9 years and growing bigger all the time.

ORDinary
01-09-2018, 06:58 AM
Take a quick look at history (2012-2016). I don't think they really care about attracting employess, as keeping pay low has been a primary objective. Attracting/retaining an adequate quantity of employees has historically been a lower priority objective.

In my opinion, it's naive to believe that "pay raises are just around the corner."

These are my personal opinions and not the opinions of any other entity or employer.

This is my personal opinion as well.

A few years ago we had 3300 pilots, AAG was making the largest profits in the history of airlines, and they decided to tell us they "needed" pay cuts from us or they'd liquidate the airline. The pay cuts they were willing to shutter the company over were 0.1% of one quarter's profit, from one employee group spread over 10 years. Being as stingy as possible with your pay is their default mode, beyond the point of it costing them in other ways. They will reluctantly and belatedly raise it only when the proof that they need to is overwhelming.

Pedro4President
01-09-2018, 07:30 AM
Anyone have any numbers on this class size and breakdown of class drop?

Pedro4President
01-09-2018, 07:37 AM
True, but it is also calculated assuming AA never has any training backlogs, and assuming classes in December every year, which they never have. Those things probably roughly cancel each other out, and 9 years is probably as accurate a guess as any other.

Also remember that every month where we hire more than 15-20 pilots is time added to the flow for a new hire. So it is 9 years and growing bigger all the time.

We hired 58 and 75 in two classes. IF and its a big IF all those pilots stayed on property their flow dates could be 8 months to more than a year apart from flow dates. This is also contingent on AA hiring more than 800 pilots no back log and our pilot group still being more than 2000 pilots.

Jersdawg
01-09-2018, 08:11 AM
We hired 58 and 75 in two classes. IF and its a big IF all those pilots stayed on property their flow dates could be 8 months to more than a year apart from flow dates. This is also contingent on AA hiring more than 800 pilots no back log and our pilot group still being more than 2000 pilots.

Yep, flow will be pushing ten years very soon with these huge classes, if it isn't already.

JMO127
01-15-2018, 07:35 PM
We hired 58 and 75 in two classes. IF and its a big IF all those pilots stayed on property their flow dates could be 8 months to more than a year apart from flow dates. This is also contingent on AA hiring more than 800 pilots no back log and our pilot group still being more than 2000 pilots.

Classes are limited to 30 starting Feb. I was told by someone who interviewed there.

bourbon scamp
01-16-2018, 05:40 AM
How does one actually calculate their potential flow date?

pitchattitude
01-16-2018, 05:53 AM
How does one actually calculate their potential flow date?

Depends who you want to believe, but the Envoy ALPA website has the seniority lists with that information.

Sheg0theD
01-16-2018, 06:03 AM
Classes are limited to 30 starting Feb. I was told by someone who interviewed there.



It will be hard to get 900 this year then with classes of 30 only.

Iím hoping thatís a recruiting gimmick and they can only find maybe 30 guys a class. (We are going to tell everyone we are limited to that though) ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Inop2
01-16-2018, 06:55 AM
Classes are limited to 30 starting Feb. I was told by someone who interviewed there.

Sounds like bad info or a misunderstanding.

moon
01-16-2018, 07:39 AM
Classes are limited to 30 starting Feb. I was told by someone who interviewed there.

If that's the case. Certainly sounds like we arent understaffed. STOP THE METERING!

SHVpilot
01-16-2018, 07:45 AM
Itís probably due to all of the training events associated with the last bid.


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Jersdawg
01-16-2018, 09:52 AM
If that's the case. Certainly sounds like we arent understaffed. STOP THE METERING!

This is an unsubstantiated rumor.

I agree wth your sentiment though.

bourbon scamp
01-16-2018, 11:40 AM
Depends who you want to believe, but the Envoy ALPA website has the seniority lists with that information.



Danke /10...