Airline Pilot Forums

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Papa Bear
01-04-2018, 12:22 PM
What are you going to do with your 56,982 bonus...(Rubles)


capt707
01-04-2018, 12:23 PM
Bahaha! Now where is our CBA?

Bluedriver
01-04-2018, 12:31 PM
1. Of course it's better to get a 1,000 bonus than not.

2. Certainly announced after most other companies made this decision, looks like they felt pressured to do something they didn't want to do.

3. Timing is also curious since we are in a major IROP and they need help.

4. Funny how they add in the email that they came up with this idea way back when tax reform was being discussed (yeah right!).

5. Where's our peer standard CBA?


SmitteyB
01-04-2018, 12:33 PM
I won't complain about money earned, but one has to wonder if this is more about optics than it is about employee appreciation.

Gearswinger
01-04-2018, 12:57 PM
I won't complain about money earned, but one has to wonder if this is more about optics than it is about employee appreciation.

It's about the upcoming FA union vote. They'll use this as an example of why they don't need a union.

Combatcraig
01-04-2018, 02:13 PM
I won't complain about money earned, but one has to wonder if this is more about optics than it is about employee appreciation.

**** YEAH itís optics! Thank AA/SWA for this (peer pressure)!

I suspect they heard grumbling like, ďWow $50? And SWA/AA freely gives its employees $1k because itís the RIGHT thing to do and cheapBlue gives a whole $50? Yay usĒ...

Bluetruth
01-04-2018, 02:59 PM
It's about the upcoming FA union vote. They'll use this as an example of why they don't need a union.

First they said they could not give out this 1k bonus because we were in "Laboratory conditions" because we have filed for a union vote and it would be illegal for them to do so. A member of management told this to us mind you. Well after several FAs investigated the laws and precedents this same manager issued a apology and said he was mistaken. 24 hours later this bonus is then announced.

So:

-"If only you guys did not push for a election we COULD of gave you this bonus, but now our hands are tied"

to

-"we formed a team long ago and planned to give you guys 1k all along!" :rolleyes:

Hercbubba
01-04-2018, 05:20 PM
Iíll take it, since Iím probably the only person who doesnít do RSA or VSA. As long as every A-hole, greedy pilot keeps helping out the company during IROPís and on a regular basis, they have no reason to give us a contract! Keep picking up tripís Blue juicers, and weíll always be at this lousy pay scale! (Drop the Mic)

Combatcraig
01-04-2018, 05:38 PM
Iíll take it. Almost covers the trip Iím gonna be OOP for since JB just canx my commute again tomorrow! Almost covers the loss... Almost.

BlueJetDork
01-04-2018, 05:40 PM
Next time I see Robin I will make sure to thank AA and SWA!

Bozo the pilot
01-04-2018, 05:41 PM
Iíll take it, since Iím probably the only person who doesnít do RSA or VSA. As long as every A-hole, greedy pilot keeps helping out the company during IROPís and on a regular basis, they have no reason to give us a contract! Keep picking up tripís Blue juicers, and weíll always be at this lousy pay scale! (Drop the Mic)

All true herc

hyperboy
01-04-2018, 06:16 PM
All true herc


What is a VSA? Must be something new that only Herc knows about?:D

Bozo the pilot
01-04-2018, 06:18 PM
What is a VSA? Must be something new that only Herc knows about?:D

Its the secret trips that you and the other juicers pick up to slow the contract down. lol :D
That's sarcasm for those of you who cant comprehend.

Rabid Seagull
01-04-2018, 07:05 PM
I will wager my 'bonus' that when our profit sharing comes out in the spring that this 'bonus' will be mentioned/factored into the payout.
Almost like an early payout.
Company gets the PR -Public likes them.
Then jb gives out profit sharing too- Public loves them...except for those greedy union pilots.

I was going to try to be positive in 2018:D

feltf4
01-05-2018, 03:02 AM
It's about the upcoming FA union vote. They'll use this as an example of why they don't need a union.

I just saw the anti union email. The ďwhat your dues can pay forĒ

You know, 4 years of Netflix...30 rt non revs to Cancun... a month of your crash pad... so on..

Sadly I was sold on a year of Netflix. But 4.

P-3Bubba
01-05-2018, 06:34 AM
Iíll take it, since Iím probably the only person who doesnít do RSA or VSA. As long as every A-hole, greedy pilot keeps helping out the company during IROPís and on a regular basis, they have no reason to give us a contract! Keep picking up tripís Blue juicers, and weíll always be at this lousy pay scale! (Drop the Mic)

Yup. Pretty pretty please with sugar and a cherry on top could you pick up trips and bail us out of our staffing mess? Our, planning mess. Our, we canít handle one single winter mess. Pick up. Help out! RSA here! Get your RSA here! Free $$$$!!!

Is anyone paying attention?

-Bubs

P-3Bubba
01-05-2018, 06:42 AM
I will wager my 'bonus' that when our profit sharing comes out in the spring that this 'bonus' will be mentioned/factored into the payout.
Almost like an early payout.
Company gets the PR -Public likes them.
Then jb gives out profit sharing too- Public loves them...except for those greedy union pilots.

I was going to try to be positive in 2018:D

Management released an email, last week, that discussed how the stock buyback program was irrelevant to profit sharing and early profit sharing payouts. See, they explained it.

Thereís an excuse for all things corporate accounting. Youíll never win. Yes profit sharing books are getting cooked as we type. But, hey, go pick up a RSA and a 1hour flica. Help out. Get your $$$$.

Cumbya prevails.

-Bubs

Papa Bear
01-05-2018, 08:36 AM
Next time I see Robin I will make sure to thank AA and SWA!
Iím gonna tell him I put it in my strike fund

captsurf
01-08-2018, 01:57 PM
Government-ďtax cuts for corporations!Ē
JetBlue-ďgotta look good! Everyone gets bonuses!Ē
Everyone-ďwow look how much money the company is giving usĒ
IRS-ďlook how much money you guys just got! Yea, weíll take 25% of that, thanks!Ē

The money always finds a way back into Uncle Samís pocket


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bluedriver
01-08-2018, 02:14 PM
Since it's due to a tax cut in the 1st place, 100% would have been in uncle Sam's pocket instead of 25%.

AKcharger
01-08-2018, 04:13 PM
$1000 bonus? I saw $150 for working the IROP, I guess I missed that email?

Xtreme87
01-08-2018, 04:29 PM
$1000 bonus? I saw $150 for working the IROP, I guess I missed that email?

Unless you picked up a VDA or RSA, then you get nada.

BeatNavy
01-08-2018, 04:34 PM
Unless you picked up a VDA or RSA, then you get nada.

If you picked up VDA, you get VDA in lieu of the $150. If you just worked a regular scheduled trip, you get $150. If you didnít work on those days, you get nothing.

To the other guy, $1,000 is our trump tax savings bonus that every jetblue employee gets.

AKcharger
01-09-2018, 04:56 AM
ah, I gotcha!

AYLflyer
01-09-2018, 05:59 AM
Damn, only a group of pilots would complain about being handed $1000...:rolleyes:

atrdriver
01-09-2018, 07:10 AM
Damn, only a group of pilots would complain about being handed $1000...:rolleyes:

I think the complaints have to do with the insulting email that accompanied the $1000. And if you weren't insulted, you have totally bought in to the JBBS or just can't tell when your intelligence is insulted.

Bozo the pilot
01-09-2018, 04:21 PM
Damn, only a group of pilots would complain about being handed $1000...:rolleyes:

Its the $29000 that Im not getting paid/ the gutted insurance/ the 10 hr 3-days.
Thanks Jetblue...You happy AYL-db? :rolleyes:

AYLflyer
01-10-2018, 06:23 AM
Its the $29000 that Im not getting paid/ the gutted insurance/ the 10 hr 3-days.
Thanks Jetblue...You happy AYL-db? :rolleyes:

Yeah, I'm thrilled that I'm underpaid compared to my peers. That's not what this is about though. You can create whatever narrative you want, you're still *****ing about the company giving you something. What would you have said if everyone EXCEPT the pilots got $1000?

What's that saying? Pay a pilot in gold bars and he'll complain?

The same voices on here keep spewing the same crap. Very woe-is-me and divisive. Wonder why more people don't post on here? Probably because if you disagree with the 4 or 5 primary voices you'll be called a juicer and told that you're sleeping with management.

I don't RSA, I don't VDA. I don't wear blue gloves. I don't clean cabins. I don't fly tired. I don't extend. I work my schedule, go home and repeat.

That doesn't mean I can't be happy that I and every other employee who is working their asses off here is getting an extra $1000 bucks in their check. $1000 might not mean jack-**** to some of us pilots who are pulling in $100k+ yr but the gate agents, in flight etc who are making next to nothing, that's a pretty nice bonus for them. I want a contract just as bad as the next guy, but I'm not going to get upset, or make up a reason to be mad because there's an extra grand in my check for a month.

If you're so offended and upset about it, why not donate that $1000 to someone? Maybe a tech ops, GO, In flight, someone who needs it more than you apparently?


I'll be at the rally on the 31st carrying a sign fighting for a market rate contract on my day off, hope the guys who are crying the loudest here will be there too.

citxls
01-10-2018, 06:28 AM
Yeah, I'm thrilled that I'm underpaid compared to my peers. That's not what this is about though. You can create whatever narrative you want, you're still *****ing about the company giving you something. What would you have said if everyone EXCEPT the pilots got $1000?

What's that saying? Pay a pilot in gold bars and he'll complain?

The same voices on here keep spewing the same crap. Very woe-is-me and divisive. Wonder why more people don't post on here? Probably because if you disagree with the 4 or 5 primary voices you'll be called a juicer and told that you're sleeping with management.

I don't RSA, I don't VDA. I don't wear blue gloves. I don't clean cabins. I don't fly tired. I don't extend. I work my schedule, go home and repeat.

That doesn't mean I can't be happy that I and every other employee who is working their asses off here is getting an extra $1000 bucks in their check. $1000 might not mean jack-**** to some of us pilots who are pulling in $100k+ yr but the gate agents, in flight etc who are making next to nothing, that's a pretty nice bonus for them. I want a contract just as bad as the next guy, but I'm not going to get upset, or make up a reason to be mad because there's an extra grand in my check for a month.

If you're so offended and upset about it, why not donate that $1000 to someone? Maybe a tech ops, GO, In flight, someone who needs it more than you apparently?


I'll be at the rally on the 31st carrying a sign fighting for a market rate contract on my day off, hope the guys who are crying the loudest here will be there too.

Solid post. See you at the picket.

Bozo the pilot
01-10-2018, 08:16 AM
Yeah, I'm thrilled that I'm underpaid compared to my peers. That's not what this is about though. You can create whatever narrative you want, you're still *****ing about the company giving you something. What would you have said if everyone EXCEPT the pilots got $1000?

What's that saying? Pay a pilot in gold bars and he'll complain?

The same voices on here keep spewing the same crap. Very woe-is-me and divisive. Wonder why more people don't post on here? Probably because if you disagree with the 4 or 5 primary voices you'll be called a juicer and told that you're sleeping with management.

I don't RSA, I don't VDA. I don't wear blue gloves. I don't clean cabins. I don't fly tired. I don't extend. I work my schedule, go home and repeat.

That doesn't mean I can't be happy that I and every other employee who is working their asses off here is getting an extra $1000 bucks in their check. $1000 might not mean jack-**** to some of us pilots who are pulling in $100k+ yr but the gate agents, in flight etc who are making next to nothing, that's a pretty nice bonus for them. I want a contract just as bad as the next guy, but I'm not going to get upset, or make up a reason to be mad because there's an extra grand in my check for a month.

If you're so offended and upset about it, why not donate that $1000 to someone? Maybe a tech ops, GO, In flight, someone who needs it more than you apparently?


I'll be at the rally on the 31st carrying a sign fighting for a market rate contract on my day off, hope the guys who are crying the loudest here will be there too.

Since you are having a tough time reading, Iíll help you out.
You went after pilots for complaining about receiving the grand, and I simply pointed out that itís not about the money given, itís about how far behind we are as pilots.
All work groups can watch out for themselves - itís guys like you, comparing our 100K to other work groups that is the problem.
Thanks for the 7 paragraphs of drivel btw.🤫

Std Deviation
01-10-2018, 08:22 AM
Yeah, I'm thrilled that I'm underpaid compared to my peers. That's not what this is about though. You can create whatever narrative you want, you're still *****ing about the company giving you something. What would you have said if everyone EXCEPT the pilots got $1000?

What's that saying? Pay a pilot in gold bars and he'll complain?

The same voices on here keep spewing the same crap. Very woe-is-me and divisive. Wonder why more people don't post on here? Probably because if you disagree with the 4 or 5 primary voices you'll be called a juicer and told that you're sleeping with management.

I don't RSA, I don't VDA. I don't wear blue gloves. I don't clean cabins. I don't fly tired. I don't extend. I work my schedule, go home and repeat.

That doesn't mean I can't be happy that I and every other employee who is working their asses off here is getting an extra $1000 bucks in their check. $1000 might not mean jack-**** to some of us pilots who are pulling in $100k+ yr but the gate agents, in flight etc who are making next to nothing, that's a pretty nice bonus for them. I want a contract just as bad as the next guy, but I'm not going to get upset, or make up a reason to be mad because there's an extra grand in my check for a month.

If you're so offended and upset about it, why not donate that $1000 to someone? Maybe a tech ops, GO, In flight, someone who needs it more than you apparently?


I'll be at the rally on the 31st carrying a sign fighting for a market rate contract on my day off, hope the guys who are crying the loudest here will be there too.

You forgot the, ďtheyíre paying us poverty level wages for New York,Ē in your soliloquy. :rolleyes: Uh, no theyíre not. I get what youíre saying. Heck for the FAs itís a lot of money. So for a guy that grew up eating government cheese in Detroit, the 151K I grossed this past year with no RSA, VDA, etc. (includes the profit sharing and per diem) as a 3yr FO on 4th year pay puts me in the upper middle class.

I hope I never get to the point where $100 is not significant to me. Disclaimer- yep, Iíll take more money but if we think weíre getting Delta rates thatís far fetched. Or, we can just burn the house down fighting over 30K on an income well into the six figures. Or, a quarter million dollars a year for captains. So letís split the difference... 15K. Weíre going to potentially strike over 15K because itís not ďindustry averageĒ on an industry comparison that has 4 times the pilots and way more market cap? Do I have this right? Please, pontificators enlighten me. Personally, you guys are going to walk off the job for 16K because itís not 25K?

CaptCoolHand
01-10-2018, 08:24 AM
Again... This isn't the I had a hard life forum... it's airline pilot forums. Airline pilot problems, not I eat govt cheese problems.

So you're ok with working harder for less than your peers doing the same job in the same equipment??

unbelievable the mediocrity you're willing to settle for...

Stop comparing yourself to every other job... this is not every other job.
YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL.

and yes. If it's not market rate. strike. walk off, shut it down. If it comes to that, then it comes to that.

We, deserve better. You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate.

StdDeviation your post is exactly what management wants to hear... you're willing to settle for less. It's pathetic.

Bozo the pilot
01-10-2018, 08:47 AM
You forgot the, ďtheyíre paying us poverty level wages for New York,Ē in your soliloquy. :rolleyes: Uh, no theyíre not. I get what youíre saying. Heck for the FAs itís a lot of money. So for a guy that grew up eating government cheese in Detroit, the 151K I grossed this past year with no RSA, VDA, etc. (includes the profit sharing and per diem) as a 3yr FO on 4th year pay puts me in the upper middle class.

I hope I never get to the point where $100 is not significant to me. Disclaimer- yep, Iíll take more money but if we think weíre getting Delta rates thatís far fetched. Or, we can just burn the house down fighting over 30K on an income well into the six figures. Or, a quarter million dollars a year for captains. So letís split the difference... 15K. Weíre going to potentially strike over 15K because itís not ďindustry averageĒ on an industry comparison that has 4 times the pilots and way more market cap? Do I have this right? Please, pontificators enlighten me. Personally, you guys are going to walk off the job for 16K because itís not 25K?

With guys like you, itís a miracle the union is even on property. Why not just take the 8% we already got and bury your head back in the sand😴
Wake tf up.

Bluedriver
01-10-2018, 09:18 AM
You forgot the, ďtheyíre paying us poverty level wages for New York,Ē in your soliloquy. :rolleyes: Uh, no theyíre not. I get what youíre saying. Heck for the FAs itís a lot of money. So for a guy that grew up eating government cheese in Detroit, the 151K I grossed this past year with no RSA, VDA, etc. (includes the profit sharing and per diem) as a 3yr FO on 4th year pay puts me in the upper middle class.

I hope I never get to the point where $100 is not significant to me. Disclaimer- yep, Iíll take more money but if we think weíre getting Delta rates thatís far fetched. Or, we can just burn the house down fighting over 30K on an income well into the six figures. Or, a quarter million dollars a year for captains. So letís split the difference... 15K. Weíre going to potentially strike over 15K because itís not ďindustry averageĒ on an industry comparison that has 4 times the pilots and way more market cap? Do I have this right? Please, pontificators enlighten me. Personally, you guys are going to walk off the job for 16K because itís not 25K?

Very disappointing post STD.

Your argument for not getting DL rates (DL, UAL and AA are all virtually identical) seems to be:

1. They have more pilots.

2. They have a higher market cap, in other words the total value of the company is higher.

As for more pilots, who cares? All that guarantees is they have more paychecks to write at that higher rate! It doesn't guarantee any other meaningful metric at all. They could be larger, yet still be a money losing enterprise!

As for market cap value, they are much larger corporations, and they are profitable, so it's not unusual that the big 3 have higher total market values. Market capitalization also fluctuates from one quarterly stock report to the next as Spirit and United have shown us recently. What does that matter? Those things aren't really relevant because they don't adjust for the scale of the operation. To say it another way, that metric alone doesn't provide enough information to gauge how profitable an enterprise is relative to it's size.

Profit margin, or how much profit we earn relative to each dollar of corporate revenue is a much more meaningful way to compare corporate profitability because it adjusts for scale, or at least it can show how smaller companies can be more profitable than a larger company relative to our size. That's us!

We earn more profit per dollar of revenue than the big 3. In the case of UAL and AA, a LOT more. We trade "highest margin" back and forth with SWA.

We can afford and should expect compensation in line with the big 4. And we have 1/4 the number of pilot paychecks to write at that comparable pay rate. You see, scale adjusted!

rvr1800
01-10-2018, 09:19 AM
You forgot the, ďtheyíre paying us poverty level wages for New York,Ē in your soliloquy. :rolleyes: Uh, no theyíre not. I get what youíre saying. Heck for the FAs itís a lot of money. So for a guy that grew up eating government cheese in Detroit, the 151K I grossed this past year with no RSA, VDA, etc. (includes the profit sharing and per diem) as a 3yr FO on 4th year pay puts me in the upper middle class.

I hope I never get to the point where $100 is not significant to me. Disclaimer- yep, Iíll take more money but if we think weíre getting Delta rates thatís far fetched. Or, we can just burn the house down fighting over 30K on an income well into the six figures. Or, a quarter million dollars a year for captains. So letís split the difference... 15K. Weíre going to potentially strike over 15K because itís not ďindustry averageĒ on an industry comparison that has 4 times the pilots and way more market cap? Do I have this right? Please, pontificators enlighten me. Personally, you guys are going to walk off the job for 16K because itís not 25K?

Edit: bit of a stream of consciousness post. Bear with the poor structure and grammar.

So what are you willing to accept SD? You choose to commute to a more affordable city. Good for you and thatís your choice. Those of us that donít want to give up our free time live in base and our bases are in some of the most expensive cities in the US. I expect to be compensated accordingly. Does a bus driver in your city make the same as my city? Probably not. Theyíre most likely compensated higher here as itís a higher cost of living city. So I actually expect to be paid the same as my peers at other airlines or more because we have no bases in low cost of living areas. I have very little control over how the company chooses to spend and make it's money. Should I as an airline pilot have to suffer for the lack of proper management at a company? Doesnít really matter though as jetBlue continues to make record profits.

hilltopflyer
01-10-2018, 09:29 AM
You forgot the, ďtheyíre paying us poverty level wages for New York,Ē in your soliloquy. :rolleyes: Uh, no theyíre not. I get what youíre saying. Heck for the FAs itís a lot of money. So for a guy that grew up eating government cheese in Detroit, the 151K I grossed this past year with no RSA, VDA, etc. (includes the profit sharing and per diem) as a 3yr FO on 4th year pay puts me in the upper middle class.

I hope I never get to the point where $100 is not significant to me. Disclaimer- yep, Iíll take more money but if we think weíre getting Delta rates thatís far fetched. Or, we can just burn the house down fighting over 30K on an income well into the six figures. Or, a quarter million dollars a year for captains. So letís split the difference... 15K. Weíre going to potentially strike over 15K because itís not ďindustry averageĒ on an industry comparison that has 4 times the pilots and way more market cap? Do I have this right? Please, pontificators enlighten me. Personally, you guys are going to walk off the job for 16K because itís not 25K?

And you are the reason I'm glad the negotiating committee won't send out a vote that is anything less than market rate.

atrdriver
01-10-2018, 10:18 AM
I hope I never get to the point where $100 is not significant to me. Disclaimer- yep, Iíll take more money but if we think weíre getting Delta rates thatís far fetched. Or, we can just burn the house down fighting over 30K on an income well into the six figures. Or, a quarter million dollars a year for captains. So letís split the difference... 15K. Weíre going to potentially strike over 15K because itís not ďindustry averageĒ on an industry comparison that has 4 times the pilots and way more market cap? Do I have this right? Please, pontificators enlighten me. Personally, you guys are going to walk off the job for 16K because itís not 25K?

Did Southerner hack SD's account??

This has got to be one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on this forum. And that's saying something.

Yes. We will strike over that. The house will not burn down. It is flush with cash. It will still be flush with cash after you earn the contract you deserve.

BeatNavy
01-10-2018, 10:43 AM
You forgot the, ďtheyíre paying us poverty level wages for New York,Ē in your soliloquy. :rolleyes: Uh, no theyíre not. I get what youíre saying. Heck for the FAs itís a lot of money. So for a guy that grew up eating government cheese in Detroit, the 151K I grossed this past year with no RSA, VDA, etc. (includes the profit sharing and per diem) as a 3yr FO on 4th year pay puts me in the upper middle class.

I hope I never get to the point where $100 is not significant to me. Disclaimer- yep, Iíll take more money but if we think weíre getting Delta rates thatís far fetched. Or, we can just burn the house down fighting over 30K on an income well into the six figures. Or, a quarter million dollars a year for captains. So letís split the difference... 15K. Weíre going to potentially strike over 15K because itís not ďindustry averageĒ on an industry comparison that has 4 times the pilots and way more market cap? Do I have this right? Please, pontificators enlighten me. Personally, you guys are going to walk off the job for 16K because itís not 25K?

Are you serious? $1.25bil stock buybacks, highest profit margins in the industry, buying a321s with cash, paying down hundred of millions in debt ahead of schedule, and they canít afford to pay pilots market rate? Do we get discounts vs delta on airbuses or fuel because we are a smaller leaner company? Should we get discounts on pilots, too? I hate that your vote counts the same as mine, but at least the NC/MEC isnít as out to lunch as you and wonít let people like you tank our pilot group. You sir, need to get informed.

rvr1800
01-10-2018, 02:19 PM
Are you serious? $1.25bil stock buybacks, highest profit margins in the industry, buying a321s with cash, paying down hundred of millions in debt ahead of schedule, and they canít afford to pay pilots market rate? Do we get discounts vs delta on airbuses or fuel because we are a smaller leaner company? Should we get discounts on pilots, too? I hate that your vote counts the same as mine, but at least the NC/MEC isnít as out to lunch as you and wonít let people like you tank our pilot group. You sir, need to get informed.

Delete my above post and insert this response please. Very well put.

CanoeBum
01-10-2018, 02:51 PM
You forgot the, ďtheyíre paying us poverty level wages for New York,Ē in your soliloquy. :rolleyes: Uh, no theyíre not. I get what youíre saying. Heck for the FAs itís a lot of money. So for a guy that grew up eating government cheese in Detroit, the 151K I grossed this past year with no RSA, VDA, etc. (includes the profit sharing and per diem) as a 3yr FO on 4th year pay puts me in the upper middle class.

I hope I never get to the point where $100 is not significant to me. Disclaimer- yep, Iíll take more money but if we think weíre getting Delta rates thatís far fetched. Or, we can just burn the house down fighting over 30K on an income well into the six figures. Or, a quarter million dollars a year for captains. So letís split the difference... 15K. Weíre going to potentially strike over 15K because itís not ďindustry averageĒ on an industry comparison that has 4 times the pilots and way more market cap? Do I have this right? Please, pontificators enlighten me. Personally, you guys are going to walk off the job for 16K because itís not 25K?

What? Is this real life?

Papa Bear
01-11-2018, 04:49 AM
You forgot the, ďtheyíre paying us poverty level wages for New York,Ē in your soliloquy. :rolleyes: Uh, no theyíre not. I get what youíre saying. Heck for the FAs itís a lot of money. So for a guy that grew up eating government cheese in Detroit, the 151K I grossed this past year with no RSA, VDA, etc. (includes the profit sharing and per diem) as a 3yr FO on 4th year pay puts me in the upper middle class.

I hope I never get to the point where $100 is not significant to me. Disclaimer- yep, Iíll take more money but if we think weíre getting Delta rates thatís far fetched. Or, we can just burn the house down fighting over 30K on an income well into the six figures. Or, a quarter million dollars a year for captains. So letís split the difference... 15K. Weíre going to potentially strike over 15K because itís not ďindustry averageĒ on an industry comparison that has 4 times the pilots and way more market cap? Do I have this right? Please, pontificators enlighten me. Personally, you guys are going to walk off the job for 16K because itís not 25K?
You think itís only 25 K and that is where you are so short sighted in your observation. Every single year we as B6 pilots loose tens of thousands of dollars in Retirement, Medical Bennyís, Quality of life compensation, and there are many many others. I CANNOT believe we have to explain this to you.
You will only get what you ask for in life. If you donít get it then you demand it. If that doesnít work well your gonna have to fight.
You think you are only worth 25K more. HA...What a joke.
Do you have any comprehension what pilots made in the 70 80 and into the 90s. You need to get outta your regional mentality and step to the plate with big boys.
Perfect example...just some thought...
Everyone listen up...Iím grabbing a beer with my SW buddy on an overnight. Heís making more dollar per hour in his chair at work. He is staying at a better hotel than I. He gets more company contribution towards retirement. He spends less on Health Care contributions ...and at the end of the day I have to be on his tab because he gets a better discount just because heís a SouthWest pilot. Now do you think he gets that because heís an awsome pilot. Do you think he has gotten these things because Kelly is such a great guy. Itís because his group has clawed and fought for everything they have.
Donít tell us what is far fetched you man child!
Stop trolling this board with your nonsense...go back to the ERJ CRJ SAAB where you belong.

CaptCoolHand
01-11-2018, 05:05 AM
I had to revisit this.

STD, for all the work you put into getting on here at JB. The time wasted going to fly at a regional because you "weren't qualified" at the time? The seniority lost? How can you possibly have this cavalier of an attitude when it comes to your worth? Just reading what you post here, you have a higher knowledge base than many. I don't get it man.

You think the job we do is easy? it's just fun? It's a hobby? You just love airplanes so much that you don't care?

Well, this isn't a hobby. You can love airplanes when youre not working. Should it be fun, yes, is This job is easy, it should be after years, if not decades of experience, effort and work. We should be compensated with the best. We are worth the best pay and compensation this industry has to offer.

If you don't think so, maybe you're in the wrong line of work? Maybe you should just stick to LTV and the internet.

Papa Bear
01-11-2018, 06:07 AM
STD is a APC Troll...What ever happened to the pilot list in the Crew Rooms. We need to get that in the contract also. From now on all potential pilots must pass a one month waiting period on the wall. They keep taking everything away urgh

Bluedriver
01-11-2018, 07:20 AM
STD is a APC Troll...What ever happened to the pilot list in the Crew Rooms. We need to get that in the contract also. From now on all potential pilots must pass a one month waiting period on the wall. They keep taking everything away urgh

Ok, I don't think he's a troll. I could be wrong. I just think he doesn't understand this business well and is easily swayed by management talking points.

rvr1800
01-11-2018, 07:59 AM
Ok, I don't think he's a troll. I could be wrong. I just think he doesn't understand this business well and is easily swayed by management talking points.

Aside from a short stint at a regional, I believe this is his first airline as well.

Bozo the pilot
01-11-2018, 10:20 AM
Aside from a short stint at a regional, I believe this is his first airline as well.

Is he not listening then? Weak minded?
I just flew a DHing, not non-revving crew yesterday- The FO was super senior (MCO) and knocking pax out of the way, wearing his blue gloves, to be a little garbage man. Pathetic that this isn't that rare.
Do these clowns even read the emails?
Where'd STD go? :confused:

Combatcraig
01-11-2018, 04:14 PM
Is he not listening then? Weak minded?
I just flew a DHing, not non-revving crew yesterday- The FO was super senior (MCO) and knocking pax out of the way, wearing his blue gloves, to be a little garbage man. Pathetic that this isn't that rare.
Do these clowns even read the emails?
Where'd STD go? :confused:

Commuted to work today. CKA doing fed rides for 2 new CAs. CKA- JB NON ALPA lanyard. Schoolhouse CA-no lanyard. Other CA had the ALPA lanyard. Unbelievable that even NOW, guys wonít do something so small our union asks of us...

CaptCoolHand
01-11-2018, 04:17 PM
Commuted to work today. CKA doing fed rides for 2 new CAs. CKA- JB NON ALPA lanyard. Schoolhouse CA-no lanyard. Other CA had the ALPA lanyard. Unbelievable that even NOW, guys wonít do something so small our union asks of us...

Ran into a guy last week and offered him one. He said I'm comAir... My response was: so?

I know what happened at comair. I don't care. This is Jetblue. This is now.

Support us to help us.

queue
01-11-2018, 04:36 PM
You forgot the, ďtheyíre paying us poverty level wages for New York,Ē in your soliloquy. :rolleyes: Uh, no theyíre not. I get what youíre saying. Heck for the FAs itís a lot of money. So for a guy that grew up eating government cheese in Detroit, the 151K I grossed this past year with no RSA, VDA, etc. (includes the profit sharing and per diem) as a 3yr FO on 4th year pay puts me in the upper middle class.

I hope I never get to the point where $100 is not significant to me. Disclaimer- yep, Iíll take more money but if we think weíre getting Delta rates thatís far fetched. Or, we can just burn the house down fighting over 30K on an income well into the six figures. Or, a quarter million dollars a year for captains. So letís split the difference... 15K. Weíre going to potentially strike over 15K because itís not ďindustry averageĒ on an industry comparison that has 4 times the pilots and way more market cap? Do I have this right? Please, pontificators enlighten me. Personally, you guys are going to walk off the job for 16K because itís not 25K?

I donít usually comment but I must reply to you. Let me just say that your train of thought about being in the upper middle class and settling for what they give you is the problem with the industry. The problem is that you donít view yourself as a professional comparing yourself to other professionals. You sound like some kid comparing himself to another kid at a regional. There are those of us who actually had other professions before flying and we got to see the rest of the world of professionals, and to be in it. The aviation industry has the most underpaid and disrespected professionals because itís full of defeatists who have been groomed by management throughout their career to be thankful for table scraps. Itís because people are happy with the sloppy seconds theyíre getting instead of getting paid what theyíre worth. I want to tell you to take your job more seriously but I donít think you have a concept of what I mean. Itís very easy for us to sit back and have fun with what weíre doing while flight attendants ridicule us for being button pushers. What they donít realize is that it takes decades of education and experience and persistent testing that tells us what sequence of buttons to push. Our job is not fundamentally different than being a nuclear plant operator, or a medical doctor, or even an astronaut. We all have extremely complex jobs that require not just rote memorization but also synthesis. We all get tested more than any other profession on the planet. And of course, one bad landing or take off can result in the deaths of up to 200 people on one of our airplanes. There are Literally millions of opportunities for us to cause tragic and permanent events to the lives of many people on every flight. That is in an enormous responsibility that you have to take more seriously. Youíre damn right I want to fight for every last penny that we are not being paid in accordance with industry average for our level. I personally wonít be happy unless we get something no lower than Southwest no higher than Delta. If you donít see yourself as being halfway between John Glenn, the guys from Apollo 13, Captain Sully, and the many scientists and engineers who gave us airplanes, then your attitude stinks. Think about how disrespected we all were when we signed a legally binding contract that forces us to clean the airplane by being dumpster divers. That shouldíve offended you to the extreme degree. Company management are a bunch of buffoons that would never make it as pilots or any other professional. It doesnít take a whole hell of a lot to be a VP or a CEO since you have all the important cognitive tasks outsourced. Rather than putting down your own profession which is, according to the government, one of the most difficult in the world, why donít you go attack over paid executives and the CEO.

hilltopflyer
01-11-2018, 06:11 PM
I donít usually comment but I must reply to you. Let me just say that your train of thought about being in the upper middle class and settling for what they give you is the problem with the industry. The problem is that you donít view yourself as a professional comparing yourself to other professionals. You sound like some kid comparing himself to another kid at a regional. There are those of us who actually had other professions before flying and we got to see the rest of the world of professionals, and to be in it. The aviation industry has the most underpaid and disrespected professionals because itís full of defeatists who have been groomed by management throughout their career to be thankful for table scraps. Itís because people are happy with the sloppy seconds theyíre getting instead of getting paid what theyíre worth. I want to tell you to take your job more seriously but I donít think you have a concept of what I mean. Itís very easy for us to sit back and have fun with what weíre doing while flight attendants ridicule us for being button pushers. What they donít realize is that it takes decades of education and experience and persistent testing that tells us what sequence of buttons to push. Our job is not fundamentally different than being a nuclear plant operator, or a medical doctor, or even an astronaut. We all have extremely complex jobs that require not just rote memorization but also synthesis. We all get tested more than any other profession on the planet. And of course, one bad landing or take off can result in the deaths of up to 200 people on one of our airplanes. There are Literally millions of opportunities for us to cause tragic and permanent events to the lives of many people on every flight. That is in an enormous responsibility that you have to take more seriously. Youíre damn right I want to fight for every last penny that we are not being paid in accordance with industry average for our level. I personally wonít be happy unless we get something no lower than Southwest no higher than Delta. If you donít see yourself as being halfway between John Glenn, the guys from Apollo 13, Captain Sully, and the many scientists and engineers who gave us airplanes, then your attitude stinks. Think about how disrespected we all were when we signed a legally binding contract that forces us to clean the airplane by being dumpster divers. That shouldíve offended you to the extreme degree. Company management are a bunch of buffoons that would never make it as pilots or any other professional. It doesnít take a whole hell of a lot to be a VP or a CEO since you have all the important cognitive tasks outsourced. Rather than putting down your own profession which is, according to the government, one of the most difficult in the world, why donít you go attack over paid executives and the CEO.

Great post. Not only that, I'm going to fight for that extra 25k because that adds up to a quicker retirement and being home with my family.

AMC190
01-11-2018, 10:40 PM
I donít usually comment but I must reply to you. Let me just say that your train of thought about being in the upper middle class and settling for what they give you is the problem with the industry. The problem is that you donít view yourself as a professional comparing yourself to other professionals. You sound like some kid comparing himself to another kid at a regional. There are those of us who actually had other professions before flying and we got to see the rest of the world of professionals, and to be in it. The aviation industry has the most underpaid and disrespected professionals because itís full of defeatists who have been groomed by management throughout their career to be thankful for table scraps. Itís because people are happy with the sloppy seconds theyíre getting instead of getting paid what theyíre worth. I want to tell you to take your job more seriously but I donít think you have a concept of what I mean. Itís very easy for us to sit back and have fun with what weíre doing while flight attendants ridicule us for being button pushers. What they donít realize is that it takes decades of education and experience and persistent testing that tells us what sequence of buttons to push. Our job is not fundamentally different than being a nuclear plant operator, or a medical doctor, or even an astronaut. We all have extremely complex jobs that require not just rote memorization but also synthesis. We all get tested more than any other profession on the planet. And of course, one bad landing or take off can result in the deaths of up to 200 people on one of our airplanes. There are Literally millions of opportunities for us to cause tragic and permanent events to the lives of many people on every flight. That is in an enormous responsibility that you have to take more seriously. Youíre damn right I want to fight for every last penny that we are not being paid in accordance with industry average for our level. I personally wonít be happy unless we get something no lower than Southwest no higher than Delta. If you donít see yourself as being halfway between John Glenn, the guys from Apollo 13, Captain Sully, and the many scientists and engineers who gave us airplanes, then your attitude stinks. Think about how disrespected we all were when we signed a legally binding contract that forces us to clean the airplane by being dumpster divers. That shouldíve offended you to the extreme degree. Company management are a bunch of buffoons that would never make it as pilots or any other professional. It doesnít take a whole hell of a lot to be a VP or a CEO since you have all the important cognitive tasks outsourced. Rather than putting down your own profession which is, according to the government, one of the most difficult in the world, why donít you go attack over paid executives and the CEO.


+1
Share the same feeling !!! 👏👏👏

CaptCoolHand
01-12-2018, 03:28 AM
Spot on post.

I donít usually comment but I must reply to you. Let me just say that your train of thought about being in the upper middle class and settling for what they give you is the problem with the industry. The problem is that you donít view yourself as a professional comparing yourself to other professionals. You sound like some kid comparing himself to another kid at a regional. There are those of us who actually had other professions before flying and we got to see the rest of the world of professionals, and to be in it. The aviation industry has the most underpaid and disrespected professionals because itís full of defeatists who have been groomed by management throughout their career to be thankful for table scraps. Itís because people are happy with the sloppy seconds theyíre getting instead of getting paid what theyíre worth. I want to tell you to take your job more seriously but I donít think you have a concept of what I mean. Itís very easy for us to sit back and have fun with what weíre doing while flight attendants ridicule us for being button pushers. What they donít realize is that it takes decades of education and experience and persistent testing that tells us what sequence of buttons to push. Our job is not fundamentally different than being a nuclear plant operator, or a medical doctor, or even an astronaut. We all have extremely complex jobs that require not just rote memorization but also synthesis. We all get tested more than any other profession on the planet. And of course, one bad landing or take off can result in the deaths of up to 200 people on one of our airplanes. There are Literally millions of opportunities for us to cause tragic and permanent events to the lives of many people on every flight. That is in an enormous responsibility that you have to take more seriously. Youíre damn right I want to fight for every last penny that we are not being paid in accordance with industry average for our level. I personally wonít be happy unless we get something no lower than Southwest no higher than Delta. If you donít see yourself as being halfway between John Glenn, the guys from Apollo 13, Captain Sully, and the many scientists and engineers who gave us airplanes, then your attitude stinks. Think about how disrespected we all were when we signed a legally binding contract that forces us to clean the airplane by being dumpster divers. That shouldíve offended you to the extreme degree. Company management are a bunch of buffoons that would never make it as pilots or any other professional. It doesnít take a whole hell of a lot to be a VP or a CEO since you have all the important cognitive tasks outsourced. Rather than putting down your own profession which is, according to the government, one of the most difficult in the world, why donít you go attack over paid executives and the CEO.

seekingblue
01-12-2018, 07:10 AM
You forgot the, ďtheyíre paying us poverty level wages for New York,Ē in your soliloquy. :rolleyes: Uh, no theyíre not. I get what youíre saying. Heck for the FAs itís a lot of money. So for a guy that grew up eating government cheese in Detroit, the 151K I grossed this past year with no RSA, VDA, etc. (includes the profit sharing and per diem) as a 3yr FO on 4th year pay puts me in the upper middle class.

I hope I never get to the point where $100 is not significant to me. Disclaimer- yep, Iíll take more money but if we think weíre getting Delta rates thatís far fetched. Or, we can just burn the house down fighting over 30K on an income well into the six figures. Or, a quarter million dollars a year for captains. So letís split the difference... 15K. Weíre going to potentially strike over 15K because itís not ďindustry averageĒ on an industry comparison that has 4 times the pilots and way more market cap? Do I have this right? Please, pontificators enlighten me. Personally, you guys are going to walk off the job for 16K because itís not 25K?

STD..... not going to bash, but I do disagree with your take.

Let me ask you a question: What would you take? What do you deem acceptable in the new contract? You say, "Delta rates are far fetched." Why? We are significantly more productive than Delta and I'd venture to guess we staff our airplanes significantly less than Delta. If i'm doing the work of 1.3 (give or take) Delta pilots, shouldn't I get at least 100% of their pay and work rules?

The undertone of your post seems to be that with better (or to much) pay, we will hurt the company. With a market rate contract, we can secure high quality pilots for the future, have more folks be willing to pick up opentime, have more good will to go above and beyond what is specified in the FOM. If the company is damaged by our pay demands, what would happen? Would they close the potato farm? Only buy back $500m in stocks? Close Jetblue Ventures? There is no boogie man that is going to cause the company to fail, because we deserve more.

Back to my original question: what would you take? Do we need a paycut to ensure the company isn't burdened with paying us? Should we go to Great Lakes' pay rates? Or Envoy's pay? I'm asking in all sincerity, what number makes sense to you?

My time and talent, are worth a Delta type contract. I think your time and talent is deserving of a Delta contract too.

pugpilot
01-12-2018, 09:34 AM
STD..... not going to bash, but I do disagree with your take.

Let me ask you a question: What would you take? What do you deem acceptable in the new contract? You say, "Delta rates are far fetched." Why? We are significantly more productive than Delta and I'd venture to guess we staff our airplanes significantly less than Delta. If i'm doing the work of 1.3 (give or take) Delta pilots, shouldn't I get at least 100% of their pay and work rules?

The undertone of your post seems to be that with better (or to much) pay, we will hurt the company. With a market rate contract, we can secure high quality pilots for the future, have more folks be willing to pick up opentime, have more good will to go above and beyond what is specified in the FOM. If the company is damaged by our pay demands, what would happen? Would they close the potato farm? Only buy back $500m in stocks? Close Jetblue Ventures? There is no boogie man that is going to cause the company to fail, because we deserve more.

Back to my original question: what would you take? Do we need a paycut to ensure the company isn't burdened with paying us? Should we go to Great Lakes' pay rates? Or Envoy's pay? I'm asking in all sincerity, what number makes sense to you?

My time and talent, are worth a Delta type contract. I think your time and talent is deserving of a Delta contract too.

couldn't agree more

Papa Bear
01-12-2018, 03:32 PM
Aside from a short stint at a regional, I believe this is his first airline as well.

So this kid just gets hired and is now telling us who many have been here north of 15 years what they are worth. Got the stank of management written all over him. Millennials

rvr1800
01-12-2018, 06:21 PM
So this kid just gets hired and is now telling us who many have been here north of 15 years what they are worth. Got the stank of management written all over him. Millennials

I donít think heís a younger guy. He actually seems like a pretty intelligent guy that I believe came from the corporate side. Obviously doesnít think very highly of himself or his chosen profession though. He is the product of F&H anti-labor tactics. Very well could be management. But yeah heís only been at jetBlue less than 3 years.

slimothy
01-12-2018, 09:37 PM
Hmm, sounds like a lot of people laying their cards out on the table in a forum. I feel like I read something about ďnegotiating in publicĒ somewhere.

nuball5
01-13-2018, 02:33 AM
Looks like Spirit just signed an AIP, with Frontier looking to be next soon. I would love nothing more than to have Jetblue be the lowest paid Airbus operator by January 31st.

rvr1800
01-13-2018, 04:23 AM
Hmm, sounds like a lot of people laying their cards out on the table in a forum. I feel like I read something about ďnegotiating in publicĒ somewhere.

Thatís a good point. Better to not get into specifics.

django
01-15-2018, 04:45 AM
Queue,

You shined on the first part of your post, but in your closing Statement you fell ina common fallacy. This over estimating of our responsibilities and skills vis a vis the executive management is not based in reality.

queue
01-15-2018, 05:41 AM
Queue,

You shined on the first part of your post, but in your closing Statement you fell ina common fallacy. This over estimating of our responsibilities and skills vis a vis the executive management is not based in reality.

Please do explain, I really want to know...

What I do know is that a VP or CEO job is highly overrated in terms of compensation vs. performance. There are a few exceptions to the rule (e.g. Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, etc..) but they are usually because they are multi-disciplined (e.g. computer engineers, scientists, who later go to management). My beef is with the typical MBA being in management. They are a dime a dozen and bring no significant innovation, or in the case of Robin, none at all. That's why we still push airplanes using tugs, have airplanes whose core technology is no more advanced than a WWII ME-262, and why the ATC system takes advantage of nothing algorithmic using software. Imagine if we had a Steve Jobs or Bezos like CEO in charge of BlueJet... instead we get golden parachute centered MBAs.

Every single airline is making less than evolutionary upgrades to a business model that has existed since WWI. This is because CEOs and VPs are far too overpriced. For the accomplished level of performance, you could take a line pilot, throw him in Robin's position, and he would probably do better. My point is ultimately made by the notion that CEOs and VPs are highly reproducible. There is nothing special in terms of education or training that demands such a high cost to produce. I think CEOs and VPs ought to make no more than pilots personally because we are significantly more expensive to produce. Also, if Robin really screwed the pooch, the board would replace him overnight and cut their losses. He isn't in charge of people's lives directly. If he fires someone, fine... they are alive to fight another day at another company or to run their own business. A pilot can make a mistake that permanently affects people's lives and thus we have more responsibility.

It's a cultural thing in America more than anything else. If MBAs going to management are a dime a dozen, and their track record is less than stellar, why should we tolerate it? We ARE the market forces... we should demand shareholders stop overcompensating these people.

CEO of Japan Airlines Takes The Bus To Work And Gets A Salary Less Than Some Of The Employees ? True Activist (http://www.trueactivist.com/ceo-of-japan-airlines-takes-the-bus-to-work-and-gets-a-salary-less-than-some-of-the-employees/)

CaptCoolHand
01-15-2018, 09:39 AM
Spot on again imo.

PasserOGas
01-15-2018, 10:52 AM
Please do explain, I really want to know...

What I do know is that a VP or CEO job is highly overrated in terms of compensation vs. performance. There are a few exceptions to the rule (e.g. Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, etc..) but they are usually because they are multi-disciplined (e.g. computer engineers, scientists, who later go to management). My beef is with the typical MBA being in management. They are a dime a dozen and bring no significant innovation, or in the case of Robin, none at all. That's why we still push airplanes using tugs, have airplanes whose core technology is no more advanced than a WWII ME-262, and why the ATC system takes advantage of nothing algorithmic using software. Imagine if we had a Steve Jobs or Bezos like CEO in charge of BlueJet... instead we get golden parachute centered MBAs.

Every single airline is making less than evolutionary upgrades to a business model that has existed since WWI. This is because CEOs and VPs are far too overpriced. For the accomplished level of performance, you could take a line pilot, throw him in Robin's position, and he would probably do better. My point is ultimately made by the notion that CEOs and VPs are highly reproducible. There is nothing special in terms of education or training that demands such a high cost to produce. I think CEOs and VPs ought to make no more than pilots personally because we are significantly more expensive to produce. Also, if Robin really screwed the pooch, the board would replace him overnight and cut their losses. He isn't in charge of people's lives directly. If he fires someone, fine... they are alive to fight another day at another company or to run their own business. A pilot can make a mistake that permanently affects people's lives and thus we have more responsibility.

It's a cultural thing in America more than anything else. If MBAs going to management are a dime a dozen, and their track record is less than stellar, why should we tolerate it? We ARE the market forces... we should demand shareholders stop overcompensating these people.

CEO of Japan Airlines Takes The Bus To Work And Gets A Salary Less Than Some Of The Employees ? True Activist (http://www.trueactivist.com/ceo-of-japan-airlines-takes-the-bus-to-work-and-gets-a-salary-less-than-some-of-the-employees/)


BOOM! The greates coup these executives have pulled off is fooling the public into believing they are entrepeneurs. They are mostly caretakers of a business someone else founded, and employees just like us.

django
01-16-2018, 04:24 AM
I shan’t try to convince you. Whether the best MBAs are attracted to this industry is debatable and perhaps we can agree on this. But to put it in perspective from someone close to the corporate world,here is a typical career progression....
MBA- Analyst - Senior Analyst - Manager - Senior Manager
Director - Senior Director - then if you are really talented
JrVP, VP, SVP and only reserve for the less 8%
A Corner Office.

So why we manage risks in terms of hundreds of lives ( no mean feat), these folks deal with risks of tens of thousands.

As for surgeons, they are constantly studying new methods and techniques. This keeps them sharp and competitive. Tell me about the general reaction of our colleagues the last time we asked for a change of SOP.?

I must however agree with the fact that we are being grossly underpaid and our contributions are underestimated by all employees.

P-3Bubba
01-16-2018, 05:14 AM
Just flew with an ex-UsAir guy. No lanyard. Weíre doomed. The company needs to put out a proposal. Weíll vote for anything.

-Bubs

atrdriver
01-16-2018, 06:58 AM
Just flew with an ex-UsAir guy. No lanyard. Weíre doomed. The company needs to put out a proposal. Weíll vote for anything.

-Bubs

I'm sure the NC appreciates being publicly undermined.

Not helpful.

queue
01-16-2018, 07:10 AM
I shanít try to convince you. Whether the best MBAs are attracted to this industry is debatable and perhaps we can agree on this. But to put it in perspective from someone close to the corporate world,here is a typical career progression....
MBA- Analyst - Senior Analyst - Manager - Senior Manager
Director - Senior Director - then if you are really talented
JrVP, VP, SVP and only reserve for the less 8%
A Corner Office.

So why we manage risks in terms of hundreds of lives ( no mean feat), these folks deal with risks of tens of thousands.

As for surgeons, they are constantly studying new methods and techniques. This keeps them sharp and competitive. Tell me about the general reaction of our colleagues the last time we asked for a change of SOP.?

I must however agree with the fact that we are being grossly underpaid and our contributions are underestimated by all employees.

As for surgeons studying new techniques... yes, they do and so do we. In fact, we often have new procedures. Also keep in mind that most medical doctors (practitioners like us) as a whole are not always in charge of people's lives the way we are. The medical world has a much larger number of unknowns than aviation. Western doctors are trained to throw drugs at problems which means we have an industry where there's a lot of "doing" and "see what happens". How many times have you gone in for a cold and the doctor says "it could be a virus or bacteria", both of which have radically different treatments. They speculate A LOT. Their actual success rate of creditable successes are actually pretty low. I've personally had a handful of misdiagnosis in my life, and my dad died because they misdiagnosed him (not using that to vilify your argument). Case in point... imagine if there were a 50/50 chance that you successfully land in a gusty wind situation. So in terms of sheer accomplished performance, we are still ahead since we are even more mission critical. Your average family doctor can screw up all day but in the end it's more a function of your immune system. Sure, brain surgeons and cardiologists have more responsibility but even their opportunity to cause a fatal outcome is very limited compared to ours. It only takes one bad decision to get 200 fatalities on the 321.

On the other hand, we have more procedure and a more limited number of technique variability. If we have ice, we have de-ice procedures with lots of numbers and flowcharts. If we have windshear, we have procedures, numbers, and industry accepted techniques. Doctors have a similar "standard of care" but the probabilities they are individually truly to blame or credit for a success or failure is lower. There's a reason it's called "practicing medicine". On the other hand, if we fail to follow a de-ice procedure, we can kill 200. I am saying that statistically we are always, by default, more mission critical than even doctors.

Now, management at an airline is not directly responsible for people's lives. Sure, they can decide they want 30 minute turns, buy Airbus vs. Boeing, give snack X vs snack Y, defund maintenance by $50 million, etc., but ultimately they are not at the controls. Regulation still prevents them from operating unsafely. A pilot still is the only one that has ultimate responsibility which is why the laws are written that way, giving the PIC the responsibility. Management at best has "operational control". You can sue them but how often do fatal crashes end up sending a CEO or VP to jail?

So I disagree that management deals with 10's of thousands of lives. That is a false argument. We are like medical doctors. We have licenses and can practice at any company. Doctors get privileges at different hospitals. Each hospital has different SOPs and management but ultimately the certificated employee (pilots and doctors) are ultimately responsible for lives. When our management implements stupid ideas (e.g. "plan" to land at 4.5k fuel, we can always push back). Again, management is highly replaceable, highly reproducible. The only difference between them and us is they spend 110% of their time fighting to increase their salaries and golden parachutes. Why do you think management is fighting to not pay us more? Would that be a risk to their real self-serving objectives if the shareholders were critical of management for paying us more? Wouldn't paying industry rate be BETTER for the company in the short and long run? I fly SOP, no more, no less. I work commensurate my pay and respect. I do this because I've been in management many times (civilian & military), I've been(am) a pilot, and I've been an innovator in the tech industry as an engineer (civilian) with lots of higher education behind me. I would love to skool BlueJet on process engineering to fix all their problems. However, I won't nor will hundreds of other highly overqualified pilots I've met at the company. Believe me, the company has a goldmine of pilots who can serve at every echelon of management to replace the existing army of ineffective management. Imagine how much good-will and intangibles BlueJet could benefit from the pilot group if we were paid and respected as professionals akin scientists, engineers, medical doctors, etc.

As for pilots complaining about SOPs, it's only because pilots are disrespected and underpaid. When you respect people and pay them what they are worth, they will find internal motivation and they will be part of the solution. The problem is that these CEOs and VPs insult us Management Skool 101 doublespeak / smoke & mirrors and we are a lot smarter than that. No one really believes it when they take credit for "culture" when real culture is a function of peer group interactions. I like flying with my peers because we don't eat our own and for the most part we nurture each other. That's not management's doing. That is ours.

I had another pilot once show me something that might add more data to this conversation... I've start another thread with it once I find it...

django
01-16-2018, 01:30 PM
As I mentioned in my previous post, I will not argue your set of beliefs just you deductions. I will say that in my experience most pilots make poor managers. Most are binary in their reasoning and not very empathetic. Their trust in regulations and facts often makes them inflexible and long term strategic thinking is not a forte.

P-3Bubba
01-16-2018, 05:40 PM
I'm sure the NC appreciates being publicly undermined.

Not helpful.

Blah blah. Itís the truth.

-Bubs

Bluetruth
01-17-2018, 06:51 AM
I don't think you will see any movement or signs until the FAs election comes and goes. Them pointing out how long pilot negotiations have taken is one of the main weapons they are using right now with the FAs.

Unfortunately they are doing everything in their power to drag out the election process. Turning in signatures for verification with the NMB at the very last possible minute and what not.

Best thing right now is for the Pilots to show support for the FAs election, and vice versa with the Pilots on going struggle. Unity does not apply to just ones own work group.

Bluedriver
01-17-2018, 06:22 PM
I shanít try to convince you. Whether the best MBAs are attracted to this industry is debatable and perhaps we can agree on this. But to put it in perspective from someone close to the corporate world,here is a typical career progression....
MBA- Analyst - Senior Analyst - Manager - Senior Manager
Director - Senior Director - then if you are really talented
JrVP, VP, SVP and only reserve for the less 8%
A Corner Office.

So why we manage risks in terms of hundreds of lives ( no mean feat), these folks deal with risks of tens of thousands.

As for surgeons, they are constantly studying new methods and techniques. This keeps them sharp and competitive. Tell me about the general reaction of our colleagues the last time we asked for a change of SOP.?

I must however agree with the fact that we are being grossly underpaid and our contributions are underestimated by all employees.

Two words: Robert Maruster.


Mic drop.

hilltopflyer
01-17-2018, 06:39 PM
Two words: Robert Maruster.


Mic drop.

I really wish I was part of the airline CEO group. How many times does a CEO pull his golden parachute only to land at another regional and pull his chute again a few years later, rinse and repeat. I wish I was friends with them so I could get into that group.

django
03-23-2018, 02:22 AM
So itís the end of March and do you know where that $1000.00 bonus due to tax reform is?

Mikeer50
03-23-2018, 02:50 AM
So itís the end of March and do you know where that $1000.00 bonus due to tax reform is?

Deposited in my bank account about a month ago.

django
03-23-2018, 03:02 AM
Okay, and I hate to this through this forum but, I donít see it in BCCS, nor in my bank accounts deposit activity. Neither as a line item on any pay stubs .

CaptCoolHand
03-23-2018, 03:11 AM
Okay, and I hate to this through this forum but, I donít see it in BCCS, nor in my bank accounts deposit activity. Neither as a line item on any pay stubs .

2/20

Special payment $1000.00

django
03-23-2018, 03:47 AM
CCH is it in the Paystubs? Because I only show regular pay for 2/20. Is there another tab?
Thanks Pal

capt707
03-23-2018, 03:49 AM
CCH is it in the Paystubs? Because I only show regular pay for 2/20. Is there another tab?
Thanks Pal

Yes, 2/20 paystub, there should be a line "Special Payment" and 1k

CaptCoolHand
03-23-2018, 03:50 AM
CCH is it in the Paystubs? Because I only show regular pay for 2/20. Is there another tab?
Thanks Pal

Itís on the regular stub. Left column under earnings-special payment. Right column under current amount -$1000

If it isnít there you should contact the CPO or send an email to payroll

Bluedriver
03-23-2018, 04:24 AM
The good news is now that the tax law is a permanent corporate tax cut, expect that bonus every February!

RiddleEagle18
03-23-2018, 06:05 AM
CCH is it in the Paystubs? Because I only show regular pay for 2/20. Is there another tab?

Thanks Pal



Were you employed in 2017. I think that was a requirement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CaptCoolHand
03-23-2018, 10:17 AM
weeeeeellll?

we're waiting!

Was it missing?

embraerjetpilot
03-23-2018, 10:35 AM
That 1000 dollar bonus was nothing more than a one time distraction from the fact that your taxes went up....

oh, and our profit sharing cut by 80 percent as a side product of our so called tax cut bill.

Blue Dude
03-23-2018, 11:01 AM
That 1000 dollar bonus was nothing more than a one time distraction from the fact that your taxes went up....

oh, and our profit sharing cut by 80 percent as a side product of our so called tax cut bill.

My taxes went down. And you seem to be implying that our management are such evil geniuses that they knew to cut the profit sharing formula a full year before the tax bill was signed, yet they can't follow a weather forecast. Try again, libtard troll.

CaptCoolHand
03-23-2018, 11:15 AM
That 1000 dollar bonus was nothing more than a one time distraction from the fact that your taxes went up....

oh, and our profit sharing cut by 80 percent as a side product of our so called tax cut bill.

Go back to BP and argue with scud and bluemax...

dontsurf
03-23-2018, 03:24 PM
That 1000 dollar bonus was nothing more than a one time distraction from the fact that your taxes went up....

oh, and our profit sharing cut by 80 percent as a side product of our so called tax cut bill.

my taxes went up too. are you guys serious that yours went down? i mean, not just the withholding...i know that went down based on jetblue's calculations. but you've run the numbers for how much you think you'll make in 2018, and your taxes, compared to 2017, are really going down?

mine are going up, and it's pretty annoying. the $1000 didn't do much to help out.

everyone's situation is different, i guess.

slimothy
03-23-2018, 03:33 PM
my taxes went up too. are you guys serious that yours went down? i mean, not just the withholding...i know that went down based on jetblue's calculations. but you've run the numbers for how much you think you'll make in 2018, and your taxes, compared to 2017, are really going down?

mine are going up, and it's pretty annoying. the $1000 didn't do much to help out.

everyone's situation is different, i guess.

My CPA said I would have paid $1000 less in 2017, under the new tax plan.

Blue Dude
03-23-2018, 05:11 PM
I would have saved $14,500 under the new plan. It's not even close. Suck it, libs.

embraerjetpilot
03-24-2018, 04:17 AM
I would have gotten a 14,500 dollar profit sharing check without this tax bill...

And I donít know where your getting your numbers but I just lost 14 grand if not more just in tax write offs. You need to get off nazi news. Your numbers arenít correct.

RiddleEagle18
03-24-2018, 04:28 AM
I would have gotten a 14,500 dollar profit sharing check without this tax bill...



And I donít know where your getting your numbers but I just lost 14 grand if not more just in tax write offs. You need to get off nazi news. Your numbers arenít correct.



Iím saving about $4,000 this year. Sucks to be you I guess.

Bumping the ATM up will save most of our captains thousands!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

seekingblue
03-24-2018, 04:47 AM
Iím saving about $4,000 this year. Sucks to be you I guess.

Bumping the ATM up will save most of our captains thousands!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

AMT changed to 500k is a big deal. And will save most money. But only if they don't live in New England, NY/ NJ. Then they will likely have to pay more.

slimothy
03-24-2018, 06:44 AM
I would have gotten a 14,500 dollar profit sharing check without this tax bill...

And I donít know where your getting your numbers but I just lost 14 grand if not more just in tax write offs. You need to get off nazi news. Your numbers arenít correct.

You keep trying to link the raping of our profit sharing to the tax bill, but thatís just silly. The company screwed us over long before the tax bill, where are you getting this?

aldonite7667
03-24-2018, 06:57 AM
That 1000 dollar bonus was nothing more than a one time distraction from the fact that your taxes went up....

oh, and our profit sharing cut by 80 percent as a side product of our so called tax cut bill.

Thatís funny. I live in California and pay through the nose. My accountant did an estimate for next year. I will get a refund for the first time in years. Thousands of dollars of my money is mine again.

aldonite7667
03-24-2018, 07:00 AM
I would have gotten a 14,500 dollar profit sharing check without this tax bill...

And I donít know where your getting your numbers but I just lost 14 grand if not more just in tax write offs. You need to get off nazi news. Your numbers arenít correct.

Love how libs NEED to work the word nazi in to every argument they lose. If youíre losing money with the new tax bill, itís you. Again, I live in California and Iím saving money, lots of it.

seekingblue
03-24-2018, 07:51 AM
Thatís funny. I live in California and pay through the nose. My accountant did an estimate for next year. I will get a refund for the first time in years. Thousands of dollars of my money is mine again.

I assume you are stuck in AMT hell? Lots of kids/ deductions?

The701Express
03-24-2018, 07:57 AM
Robin and Joel will both save more with the new tax law than any jetblue pilot on here having a W2 measuring contest. I'm sure they'd have a good laugh watching pilots fight over what amounts to crumbs to them.

Bluedriver
03-24-2018, 09:54 AM
Robin and Joel will both save more with the new tax law than any jetblue pilot on here having a W2 measuring contest. I'm sure they'd have a good laugh watching pilots fight over what amounts to crumbs to them.

This.

I'm am somewhere close to break even, but the tax law costs billions, so someone is saving a LOT.

PasserOGas
03-24-2018, 10:10 AM
Robin and Joel will both save more with the new tax law than any jetblue pilot on here having a W2 measuring contest. I'm sure they'd have a good laugh watching pilots fight over what amounts to crumbs to them.

This.

The tax cut given to working folks is pennies compared to the uber wealthy. I doubt the airport van driver saw a huge cut in his taxes. Meanwhile airline captains are getting an extra $3k back. It isnt linear. The only reason you got any kind of cut was to keep you from complaining at the giveaway happening at the top income levels. The billionaires are getting a very good ROI on their bribery dollars. Just wait until the defecit bill comes in and we are all stuck with the check.

embraerjetpilot
03-24-2018, 11:38 AM
You keep trying to link the raping of our profit sharing to the tax bill, but thatís just silly. The company screwed us over long before the tax bill, where are you getting this?

No, it didn't...its an indirect byproduct of it... It just made it more advantageous to buy back a billion dollars worth of stock than to reward employees..

embraerjetpilot
03-24-2018, 11:40 AM
Love how libs NEED to work the word nazi in to every argument they lose. If youíre losing money with the new tax bill, itís you. Again, I live in California and Iím saving money, lots of it.

I used to only use it referring to fox as a propaganda channel...but then you guys elected this guy... Notice he hasn't said one bad thing about nazis marching in the streets... Have you seen the republican running in Illinois?

rvr1800
03-24-2018, 11:51 AM
Hereís a basic calculator to see how he new tax plan affects you.

Tax Plan Calculator by Maxim Lott (http://taxplancalculator.com)

Saving me about $5000

Bluedriver
03-24-2018, 12:21 PM
Hereís a basic calculator to see how he new tax plan affects you.

Tax Plan Calculator by Maxim Lott (http://taxplancalculator.com)

Saving me about $5000

One big problem with this calculator and other like it for us is you can't put in the deductions that you COULD deduct last year that you can't this year.

Union dues, travel and overnight expenses, tax software/services, uniform items, etc..

So the savings isn't nearly what the calculations say for pilots.

In my case, when you add those deductions back in it's a tax wash for me.

RiddleEagle18
03-24-2018, 12:29 PM
This.



The tax cut given to working folks is pennies compared to the uber wealthy. I doubt the airport van driver saw a huge cut in his taxes. Meanwhile airline captains are getting an extra $3k back. It isnt linear. The only reason you got any kind of cut was to keep you from complaining at the giveaway happening at the top income levels. The billionaires are getting a very good ROI on their bribery dollars. Just wait until the defecit bill comes in and we are all stuck with the check.



Ahhhh yes because the van driver already doesnít pay any taxes. But you already knew that.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

svergin
03-24-2018, 01:37 PM
One big problem with this calculator and other like it for us is you can't put in the deductions that you COULD deduct last year that you can't this year.

Union dues, travel and overnight expenses, tax software/services, uniform items, etc..

So the savings isn't nearly what the calculations say for pilots.

In my case, when you add those deductions back in it's a tax wash for me.

I wiped out all my pilot deductions and will still save almost $10k combined with my wife in taxes. Yes we lose some deductions, but the tax rate changes are huge for us. Going to save like crazy until the Democrats get elected and jack up our taxes again. Hopefully its after I retire.

Blue Dude
03-24-2018, 03:41 PM
I would have gotten a 14,500 dollar profit sharing check without this tax bill...

And I donít know where your getting your numbers but I just lost 14 grand if not more just in tax write offs. You need to get off nazi news. Your numbers arenít correct.

My numbers are accurate. I'll lose the itemized employee deductions and the personal exemptions but double the standard deduction, so that's a wash. Taxable income is nearly identical. The big help is the lowered tax rates, and a child tax credit that I'll be newly eligible for in 2018 is just icing on the cake. I didn't get this from Fox News, but from the IRS and a pocket calculator. Sorry if reality interferes with your anti Trump delusional rant.

And the profit sharing cut was still done in 2016, not when the tax cut was enacted just a few months ago.

hilltopflyer
03-24-2018, 05:58 PM
My numbers are accurate. I'll lose the itemized employee deductions and the personal exemptions but double the standard deduction, so that's a wash. Taxable income is nearly identical. The big help is the lowered tax rates, and a child tax credit that I'll be newly eligible for in 2018 is just icing on the cake. I didn't get this from Fox News, but from the IRS and a pocket calculator. Sorry if reality interferes with your anti Trump delusional rant.

And the profit sharing cut was still done in 2016, not when the tax cut was enacted just a few months ago.
He's just a mad libtard. Trying to blame something on anyone

slimothy
03-24-2018, 06:19 PM
No, it didn't...its an indirect byproduct of it... It just made it more advantageous to buy back a billion dollars worth of stock than to reward employees..

So youíre saying the WLT knew about the Trump tax plan in 2016, when they changed our PS plan? You are either delusional, or a troll.

queue
03-24-2018, 10:14 PM
Ahhhh yes because the van driver already doesnít pay any taxes. But you already knew that.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't pay in cash. The NYC cabbies love to tell you that you have to pay in cash. They do that so they can avoid showing a certain level of income. Like everything else in NYC, it's corruption.

Make a report to the IRS that the cab driver it trying to force people to pay with cash and not offering a receipt.



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

queue
03-24-2018, 10:21 PM
I used to only use it referring to fox as a propaganda channel...but then you guys elected this guy... Notice he hasn't said one bad thing about nazis marching in the streets... Have you seen the republican running in Illinois?


You do realize that the Nazis (National Socialism) are your team, right???

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism

Also, believe it or not, but Fox actually does a better job of honestly covering politics. While they are part of the controlled media, the rest of all the media is far far worse because they are simply an extension of the Democrat party and of anti-US operatives such as the billionaire criminal George Soros.

https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/10/06/soros-loses-challenge-to-insider-trading-conviction/


The closest thing to Nazis you have on the streets marching right now are:


ANTIFA (a terrorist group funded by George Soros and his many funds)
Social Justice Warriors
Leftist socialists/communists
Most left leaning college professors and staff (e.g. Berkeley, CA)




This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

slimothy
03-24-2018, 11:10 PM
Don't pay in cash. The NYC cabbies love to tell you that you have to pay in cash. They do that so they can avoid showing a certain level of income. Like everything else in NYC, it's corruption.

Make a report to the IRS that the cab driver it trying to force people to pay with cash and not offering a receipt.



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Wtf are you even talking about? Are you paying for your rides to and from the airport on company trips? The rest of us just tip a buck. Youíre doing it wrong.

HighFlight
03-25-2018, 02:45 AM
And what good will that receipt do you, exactly?

Don't pay in cash. The NYC cabbies love to tell you that you have to pay in cash. They do that so they can avoid showing a certain level of income. Like everything else in NYC, it's corruption.

Make a report to the IRS that the cab driver it trying to force people to pay with cash and not offering a receipt.

Bluedriver
03-25-2018, 04:15 AM
I wiped out all my pilot deductions and will still save almost $10k combined with my wife in taxes. Yes we lose some deductions, but the tax rate changes are huge for us. Going to save like crazy until the Democrats get elected and jack up our taxes again. Hopefully its after I retire.

Depending on which state you live in, what your mortgage interest is and what your ultimate level of income is also change the equation.

I'm telling you, I've run the calculations, with my circumstances it is a WASH.

Now, of course some will do better, thanks for letting me know.

For reference, we are a 250k a year family. It is a literal wash. Playing with the calculators, if we were a 350-450k a year family, holding MY other tax circumstances level, it would save me about 5-8k.

So, if I worked at a real airline or was other wise a very high income dude, more savings.

But at 250k, with MY tax circumstances (still well within the normal range) it's a wash.

N311JB
03-25-2018, 06:38 AM
[QUOTE=queue;2558241]Don't pay in cash. The NYC cabbies love to tell you that you have to pay in cash. They do that so they can avoid showing a certain level of income. Like everything else in NYC, it's corruption.

Make a report to the IRS that the cab driver it trying to force people to pay with cash and not offering a receipt.



Cash is always king hommie. I always try to pay anyone in the service industry in cash, wait staff, barbers, uber etc. You'd be amazed at far that principle gets you with service.

Bluetruth
03-25-2018, 07:11 AM
[QUOTE=queue;2558241]Don't pay in cash. The NYC cabbies love to tell you that you have to pay in cash. They do that so they can avoid showing a certain level of income. Like everything else in NYC, it's corruption.

Make a report to the IRS that the cab driver it trying to force people to pay with cash and not offering a receipt.



Cash is always king hommie. I always try to pay anyone in the service industry in cash, wait staff, barbers, uber etc. You'd be amazed at far that principle gets you with service.

Thats how you end up like Greece, where everyone hides their money, national past time is tax evasion, and the government is broke. No thanks.

slimothy
03-25-2018, 07:43 AM
[QUOTE=N311JB;2558323]

Thats how you end up like Greece, where everyone hides their money, national past time is tax evasion, and the government is broke. No thanks.

Yeah, it had nothing to do with unsustainable entitlement spending.

embraerjetpilot
03-25-2018, 12:23 PM
The deficit is up by 80 percent... and the difference between last year and this year is not what you would think is entitlements.

queue
03-25-2018, 01:01 PM
And what good will that receipt do you, exactly?

If you run an LLC you can tax deduct if you use the actual expense accounting method. Sometimes cab rides in NYC are so high they require a receipt being above the threshold.



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

aldonite7667
03-25-2018, 01:08 PM
Hereís a basic calculator to see how he new tax plan affects you.

Tax Plan Calculator by Maxim Lott (http://taxplancalculator.com)

Saving me about $5000

Yes, this is pennies. When obama gave everyone $40 it was called ďreal cash, in your pocket.Ē

queue
03-25-2018, 01:09 PM
[QUOTE=queue;2558241]Don't pay in cash. The NYC cabbies love to tell you that you have to pay in cash. They do that so they can avoid showing a certain level of income. Like everything else in NYC, it's corruption.

Make a report to the IRS that the cab driver it trying to force people to pay with cash and not offering a receipt.



Cash is always king hommie. I always try to pay anyone in the service industry in cash, wait staff, barbers, uber etc. You'd be amazed at far that principle gets you with service.


I feel you. I only mention it in the context of NYC because itís a leftist socialist icon of financial mismanagement due to corruption. Their entire economy depends on corruption... e.g. cabbies grossly misrepresenting their actual income, people getting rent adjusted housing when they have money, all the other welfare services, and of course, illegal crashpads with extra income not being reported. Like someone else said, you eventually end up with Greece, Venezuela, Soviet Russia, the E.U., Cypress, etc. you have to keep integrity with the accounting system or it all implodes. Thatís why Democrat run big cities are third world hell holes.


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

aldonite7667
03-25-2018, 01:09 PM
The deficit is up by 80 percent... and the difference between last year and this year is not what you would think is entitlements.


No you care about money when obama spent 17 trillion dollars in 8 years? Whatever clown.

queue
03-25-2018, 01:19 PM
The deficit is up by 80 percent... and the difference between last year and this year is not what you would think is entitlements.


The system is so messed up that it will get worse before it gets better.

For example,

Trump just a HUUGELY huge omnibus spending bill because, as he claims, was the only way to fund the military. I see the logic of it but we need to do what Rand Paul said, end all omnibus spending and require bills to only be specific.


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

embraerjetpilot
03-25-2018, 01:38 PM
Mostly at no fault of his own.

Two wars and a miserable economy would do that.

queue
03-25-2018, 02:50 PM
Mostly at no fault of his own.

Two wars and a miserable economy would do that.


Youíre right. Iím mostly a Trump supporter albeit Iím more libertarian.

At least states in the center of the US arenít subsidizing east coast states as much anymore. The tax bill is revolutionary in many good ways.

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

aldonite7667
03-25-2018, 03:24 PM
Youíre right. Iím mostly a Trump supporter albeit Iím more libertarian.

At least states in the center of the US arenít subsidizing east coast states as much anymore. The tax bill is revolutionary in many good ways.

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.


I dunno. 5 years of quantitative easing? If they let the market find a bottom the recession would have been much shorter.

embraerjetpilot
03-25-2018, 03:41 PM
Do you realize that the middle states get more federal funding than those states your complaining about so much?

aldonite7667
03-25-2018, 03:52 PM
Do you realize that the middle states get more federal funding than those states your complaining about so much?

Of course I do. I donít live in one of those states. I live in the state with the highest state income tax, highest property tax, highest gas tax and the most people in poverty per capita than any other state. Can you guess? Living here is like hunger games, all to support the capitol.

queue
03-25-2018, 04:54 PM
Do you realize that the middle states get more federal funding than those states your complaining about so much?


Depends on which state... Texas, for example, has no state taxes and itís extremely well off financially. It carries the weight of many other states.

But, the real solution is to disallow all tax deductions, corporate welfare via tax deductions, and all other mechanisms of theft through taxation. Right now the system incentivizes states like NY to steal huge amounts of federal funding, rack up huge debt through social programs, while other states donít enjoy the benefits. States like NY and CA need to be accountable for their own fiscal irresponsibility. SALT deductions need to be 100% abolished. And thatís just for starters.



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

aldonite7667
03-25-2018, 06:04 PM
The corporate tax needed to be reduced and yes, the are getting I gigantic initial windfall. But, It was among the most expensive in the world which made it difficult for American companies to compete, repatriate money and create more jobs for Americans.

aldonite7667
03-25-2018, 06:05 PM
Agree with Your statement about SALT Queue. It makes it easy for highly taxed states to hide what they are really charging their citizens.

embraerjetpilot
03-26-2018, 05:59 AM
Well, I guess since all of you guys are in it for yourselves, Iíll go pick up a vda now.

CaptCoolHand
03-26-2018, 06:07 AM
Nice thread drift...

So did he find his $1000?

queue
03-26-2018, 09:54 AM
Well, I guess since all of you guys are in it for yourselves, Iíll go pick up a vda now.

I'm in it for "yourselves" in the plurality. I want all pilot pay to go up significantly with matching work rules that treat you like a professional with all kinds of protections. I don't want to prosper personally until the entire pilot group prospers equally at a base level first.


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