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View Full Version : How senior is DFW?


fenix1
01-04-2018, 09:53 PM
Currently, what is the seniority/hire date for DFW's most junior 175 FO, 145 FO, 175 CA & 145 CA? (I'm especially interested in gaining a better understanding of how senior DFW is for CA's on both 175's & 145's right now.)

Thanks in advance.


HoustonPilot
01-04-2018, 09:59 PM
Currently, what is the seniority/hire date for DFW's most junior 175 FO, 145 FO, 175 CA & 145 CA? (I'm especially interested in gaining a better understanding of how senior DFW is for CA's on both 175's & 145's right now.)

Thanks in advance.

E75 DFW Bottom of the rsv list are 1175 and 2175 (seniority)
EMJ DFW bottom of the rsv list are 1514 and 2156

havick206
01-04-2018, 10:01 PM
Currently, what is the seniority/hire date for DFW's most junior 175 FO, 145 FO, 175 CA & 145 CA? (I'm especially interested in gaining a better understanding of how senior DFW is for CA's on both 175's & 145's right now.)

Thanks in advance.

Most junior CA on the reserve list on the 145 in DFW is maybe a Dec 2016 / Jan 2017 ish hire date going off seniority numbers.

That being said a lot of water to go under the bridge in the next 6 months or so with forced upgrades currently happening so that number could swing significantly


fenix1
01-04-2018, 11:36 PM
Many thanks, Havick206 & HouP. What's the best guess about how that number might move following the forced upgrades? (i.e., roughly how many forced updates are anticipated?)

Most junior CA on the reserve list on the 145 in DFW is maybe a Dec 2016 / Jan 2017 ish hire date going off seniority numbers.

That being said a lot of water to go under the bridge in the next 6 months or so with forced upgrades currently happening so that number could swing significantly

DilsonWic
01-05-2018, 03:41 AM
Many thanks, Havick206 & HouP. What's the best guess about how that number might move following the forced upgrades? (i.e., roughly how many forced updates are anticipated?)

No telling. But grumblings are that only the top 50 FOs are truly safe from the forced upgrade.

havick206
01-05-2018, 06:11 AM
Many thanks, Havick206 & HouP. What's the best guess about how that number might move following the forced upgrades? (i.e., roughly how many forced updates are anticipated?)

Itís anyones guess. Thereís way too many variables to come up with a number. Keep in mind DFW based FOís that are building up their part 121 time will start trickling out soon also and will want to get back to DFW as soon as they can, they will be senior to you as well as the recent forced upgrades that have been recent new hires.

BarrySeal
01-05-2018, 12:14 PM
what is "better" (QOL-wise) DFW based airplane for

1. New hire FO
2. New Captain (recent upgrade from FO)

145, 175, etc ?

AZPilotMike
01-05-2018, 12:23 PM
what is "better" (QOL-wise) DFW based airplane for

1. New hire FO
2. New Captain (recent upgrade from FO)

145, 175, etc ?

Dallas is going to be slow for a new hire in either example. I just took the ORD vacancy on the 175 out of DFW and my bidding seniority went way up. I have several friends who are FO's on the 175 and they are still sitting reserve after several months.

From what I can tell listening to new upgrade Captains on the 175, they are on reserve but being flown a lot. Hopefully this new upgrade cycle will ease the pressure on them.

Sorry I cant speak much to the other airframes. QOL I feel depends the most on where you live. If you live in Dallas and have been an FO for a bit, sitting reserve on the 175 will keep you home a lot. Plus you can bid TDY for ORD while it lasts and get all of those perks.

fenix1
01-05-2018, 09:11 PM
Great question and certainly one of interest to me as well

what is "better" (QOL-wise) DFW based airplane for

1. New hire FO
2. New Captain (recent upgrade from FO)

145, 175, etc ?

fenix1
01-05-2018, 09:17 PM
Thanks a lot, AZ PilotMike. I don't mean to be a pain in the butt, but any chance you'd be good enough to quantify what "slow" means to you? (i.e., for both 175's & 145's, currently roughly how many months/years until possible to hold DFW as FO, until upgrade, until it's possible to get back to DFW as CA) Even an estimate or your best guess/rough feel would be helpful here!

Dallas is going to be slow for a new hire in either example. I just took the ORD vacancy on the 175 out of DFW and my bidding seniority went way up. I have several friends who are FO's on the 175 and they are still sitting reserve after several months.

From what I can tell listening to new upgrade Captains on the 175, they are on reserve but being flown a lot. Hopefully this new upgrade cycle will ease the pressure on them.

Sorry I cant speak much to the other airframes. QOL I feel depends the most on where you live. If you live in Dallas and have been an FO for a bit, sitting reserve on the 175 will keep you home a lot. Plus you can bid TDY for ORD while it lasts and get all of those perks.

fenix1
01-05-2018, 09:20 PM
Somehow, I didn't realize forced upgrades were starting at the bottom of the seniority list of upgrade eligible FO's and then working up the seniority list until the airline has what they need, so thanks for this.

No telling. But grumblings are that only the top 50 FOs are truly safe from the forced upgrade.

bigtime209
01-05-2018, 09:47 PM
Thanks a lot, AZ PilotMike. I don't mean to be a pain in the butt, but any chance you'd be good enough to quantify what "slow" means to you? (i.e., for both 175's & 145's, currently roughly how many months/years until possible to hold DFW as FO, until upgrade, until it's possible to get back to DFW as CA) Even an estimate or your best guess/rough feel would be helpful here!

Okay, I'll give you some current data if it makes you feel better. Please understand that things are changing unbelievable fast around here. This data will look completely different after the latest bid closes tomorrow and is processed. And things will look completely different in a few months after that, and so on... I know you're wondering how thing will look in 1.5-2 years, but you could take a guess on how senior each base will be that far out from now and your guess would be just as good as ours. But again, if it makes you feel better, the current stats for seniority per base/equipment (valid for a few more days) is:

Most Jr DFW 175 FO: 10/2017
Most Jr DFW 145 FO: 05/2017

Most Jr DFW 175 CA: 01/2016
Most Jr DFW 145 CA: 12/2016

So there it is, the current snapshot. But you simply cannot use these numbers to make any kind of guess on how things will look 2 years from now. There is far too much change ahead and variables. For example, you might say "Hey DFW 175 FO is pretty junior". Yeah, well that was probably the last new hire class that went directly into that status that we'll see for a very long time. So each month it will keep getting more senior and more senior. Then you have the forced upgrades throwing a huge curveball into the seniority. Then you're gonna have more and more senior FOs displacing into different equipment and bumping junior guys out. So on and so forth. But anyway, those are the current numbers. Just know that they are completely useless figures for trying to make any determination for anything as far out as you're looking. The only semi educated guess you can make is that DFW will remain to be the senior base. How senior, that's the unknown.

BarrySeal
01-05-2018, 10:04 PM
Okay, I'll give you some current data if it makes you feel better. Please understand that things are changing unbelievable fast around here. This data will look completely different after the latest bid closes tomorrow and is processed. And things will look completely different in a few months after that, and so on... I know you're wondering how thing will look in 1.5-2 years, but you could take a guess on how senior each base will be that far out from now and your guess would be just as good as ours. But again, if it makes you feel better, the current stats for seniority per base/equipment (valid for a few more days) is:

Most Jr DFW 175 FO: 10/2017
Most Jr DFW 145 FO: 05/2017

Most Jr DFW 175 CA: 01/2016
Most Jr DFW 145 CA: 12/2016

So there it is, the current snapshot. But you simply cannot use these numbers to make any kind of guess on how things will look 2 years from now. There is far too much change ahead and variables. For example, you might say "Hey DFW 175 FO is pretty junior". Yeah, well that was probably the last new hire class that went directly into that status that we'll see for a very long time. So each month it will keep getting more senior and more senior. Then you have the forced upgrades throwing a huge curveball into the seniority. Then you're gonna have more and more senior FOs displacing into different equipment and bumping junior guys out. So on and so forth. But anyway, those are the current numbers. Just know that they are completely useless figures for trying to make any determination for anything as far out as you're looking. The only semi educated guess you can make is that DFW will remain to be the senior base. How senior, that's the unknown.

Great info.

1. Which CA aircraft is better QOL. Assume live in Dallas. Is one a slave ship more than the other ? Etc ?
2. What is "real world" CA annual salary for new Captain ? Both airplane models ?

Thanks

fenix1
01-06-2018, 01:55 AM
I appreciate it and I understand completely. It seems crazy to be planning this far out given how dynamic things are & will be, but target airline ties to a cadet program (including seniority in training for base/equipment) & first flying job and then that ties to where (school) & how (61 or 141) I finish training & pay for training. Bottom line: Envoyís cadet program will really help in several ways and - if Iím accepted into that - then things get pretty simple pretty quick in all likelihood & Iíll take the rest however it comes.

Okay, I'll give you some current data if it makes you feel better. Please understand that things are changing unbelievable fast around here. This data will look completely different after the latest bid closes tomorrow and is processed. And things will look completely different in a few months after that, and so on... I know you're wondering how thing will look in 1.5-2 years, but you could take a guess on how senior each base will be that far out from now and your guess would be just as good as ours. But again, if it makes you feel better, the current stats for seniority per base/equipment (valid for a few more days) is:

Most Jr DFW 175 FO: 10/2017
Most Jr DFW 145 FO: 05/2017

Most Jr DFW 175 CA: 01/2016
Most Jr DFW 145 CA: 12/2016

So there it is, the current snapshot. But you simply cannot use these numbers to make any kind of guess on how things will look 2 years from now. There is far too much change ahead and variables. For example, you might say "Hey DFW 175 FO is pretty junior". Yeah, well that was probably the last new hire class that went directly into that status that we'll see for a very long time. So each month it will keep getting more senior and more senior. Then you have the forced upgrades throwing a huge curveball into the seniority. Then you're gonna have more and more senior FOs displacing into different equipment and bumping junior guys out. So on and so forth. But anyway, those are the current numbers. Just know that they are completely useless figures for trying to make any determination for anything as far out as you're looking. The only semi educated guess you can make is that DFW will remain to be the senior base. How senior, that's the unknown.

bigtime209
01-06-2018, 06:06 AM
Great info.

1. Which CA aircraft is better QOL. Assume live in Dallas. Is one a slave ship more than the other ? Etc ?
2. What is "real world" CA annual salary for new Captain ? Both airplane models ?

Thanks

1. I'd say both are about the same. The biggest difference is more legs, shorter flights on the 145. Days off are roughly the same I believe. If you like longer legs and doing fewer per day, 175 is better.

2. They pay rates are the exact same for both aircraft. This website doesn't really reflect that. You're paid based on your seniority which boils down to getting 145 pay until you're extremely senior (like getting close to flow senior) then you move up to CR7/175 pay. Regardless of what you actually fly. So figure for a new CA $67/hr at 75 hours a month of RSV pay. If you wanna figure per diem, it's $1.90/hr tax free at 200-300 hrs a month. That will give you you're base pay. Beyond that, you can pick up OT on 3 of your days off while on RSV. That's paid at 150% or 200% if they're short. But...getting awarded OT is based on seniority. There isn't much OT to be found on the 145 in general and there's not a ton that a junior CA on the 175 is able to get either. I'd say, figure maybe an additional $1k a month if you pick up OT and get lucky enough to actually score some OT if you're super junior. But keep in mind, year 2 CA at Envoy makes $67/hour. A year 2 FO at EDV is making $60ish/hr and the Republic TA is rumored to be even higher. A year 2 CA at EDV is making over $90/hr and Republic CA pay will probably be somewhere closer to that ballpark as well. Republic's TA details will be public Monday. Keep those rates in mind. They are not insignificant.