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View Full Version : Compass vs/or Envoy


Cristian17
01-16-2018, 03:46 PM
Hello, I had couple questions and looking for some advise in choosing a an FO position. I have an offer from Compass and Envoy to start this January. I have lots of family in Phx and really considering living here because of the base Compass just opened. Living would be much easier(FINANCIALLY) and no commute really. If i go with Envoy has flow and id be living in Chicago or New York by looking at my seniority class pick. (as well REALLY EXPENSIVE LIVING). What do you guys think? thanks.


havick206
01-16-2018, 04:02 PM
Hello, I had couple questions and looking for some advise in choosing a an FO position. I have an offer from Compass and Envoy to start this January. I have lots of family in Phx and really considering living here because of the base Compass just opened. Living would be much easier(FINANCIALLY) and no commute really. If i go with Envoy has flow and id be living in Chicago or New York by looking at my seniority class pick. (as well REALLY EXPENSIVE LIVING). What do you guys think? thanks.

How likely is a new hire at compass to be awarded PHX out of training? If not right out of training then how long?

Either way you will be commuting at Envoy whether itís initially to the east coast DFW at some point.

How stable is Compass being a contract only airline (ie not being wholly owned by a major)? Just a little food for thought.

Personally if I were in your shoes I would go compass to live in base at home and save cash and drive to work.

Both are reasonable options but Compass would most likely afford you a better lifestyle while doing your time in a regional, assuming they donít lose a base or aircraft.

Pat2389
01-16-2018, 04:10 PM
My buddy is a Compass CA LAX base and he is frantically trying to get out of there. Says there are talks of delta wanting to reduce their flying and then Envoys taking back 20 airplanes. Doesnít leave many. Not sure how true or imminent these issues are. Maybe somebody else can speak to it. Last time I spoke to Pedro he said heís going to LA and taking those planes back himself. This was a few months back though. Driving to work is huge. Hopefully you get better answers than what I have. Best of luck.


bigtime209
01-16-2018, 05:29 PM
The Compass AA contract expires in 2 years. Lots of speculation that those 20 planes will be transferred here. The process could start next year. Driving to work is awesome, but I'd be very cautious about Compass. If I were you, I'd go to EDV if you're gonna commute anyway.

Cristian17
01-16-2018, 05:40 PM
If the decision will be to go with Envoy for the reason of them having the flow and job security I would move to Chicago to where Iíd be base, just thinking would be a lot harder to live on an FO pay. What are your thoughts? Thanks.

havick206
01-16-2018, 05:41 PM
If the decision will be to go with Envoy for the reason of them having the flow and job security I would move to Chicago to where Iíd be base, just thinking would be a lot harder to live on an FO pay. What are your thoughts? Thanks.

That's a solid option if you decide not to go the Compass route.

Seaplane
01-16-2018, 05:44 PM
With endeavor pay you wonít have to worry about the cost of an apartment. But in Chicago with enjoy you can expect to pay $650-$1000 for a place to stay, and itís doable with FO pay. Living in base is best with the crappy reserve rules than commuting. Reserve time is only increasing with every class you pass on. Living in base with envoy isnít bad, living in base with endeavor is better, for now.

Cristian17
01-16-2018, 05:56 PM
I havenít looked into endeavor but thanks. I have a date to start with Envoy or Compass thatís why I was asking about them in particular.

AZPilotMike
01-16-2018, 06:06 PM
Compass or Endevor. You are about to be at the bottom of some pretty deep seniority at Envoy. In addition living in Phoenix is better than Dallas although this is a personal decision.

Compass will be losing its AA contract in 2019, so there is that.

If I where in your shoes I would hit up Compass as I have heard that generally the pilot group is pretty happy.

SilentLurker
01-16-2018, 06:07 PM
I havenít looked into endeavor but thanks. I have a date to start with Envoy or Compass thatís why I was asking about them in particular.



I think you will choose Enjoy. Haha, welcome aboard. Flow magic is very strong, and AA is where u want to end up eventually. Apply OTS, if things donít work out, u have a flow right? I hope and pray that the ďno interviewĒ ďguaranteed flowĒ is still around in 8-10 yrs without a judge getting involved. Hope nobody drops a nuke, hope nobody drops an electromagnet bomb, hope US economy keeps rising for the next 8-10 yrs ignoring cyclical trends.

I personally hope the Ice Cream Pooping Magical Unicorn does really exist because everyone is eating the flow. #SquattyPotty

Jersdawg
01-17-2018, 05:12 AM
Compass will be losing its AA contract in 2019, so there is that. .

They will? Since when?

inevitableneb
01-17-2018, 05:26 AM
I also have it on good authority that the 20 compass 175s will be coming to Envoy. I would absolutely not go to compass. Their future is very uncertain. Envoy is a much better bet. Better still would probably be Endeavor or Republic. Please don't come here for flow. Listen to the union, 9+ years!??! You seriously think you won't be able to get to your major of choice in 9 years? With AA retiring a pilot every 8 hours.

Jersdawg
01-17-2018, 09:10 AM
I also have it on good authority that the 20 compass 175s will be coming to Envoy.

Look, I don't know how long you've been with the airlines, but in case it hasn't been long, you don't count your chickens before they hatch. Especially with AAG, who changes their mind every three months. It's not smart to plan on maybes and what ifs.

That being said, Compass' position is very precarious. That we can agree on.

402FreightDog
01-17-2018, 09:41 AM
Hello, I had couple questions and looking for some advise in choosing a an FO position. I have an offer from Compass and Envoy to start this January. I have lots of family in Phx and really considering living here because of the base Compass just opened. Living would be much easier(FINANCIALLY) and no commute really. If i go with Envoy has flow and id be living in Chicago or New York by looking at my seniority class pick. (as well REALLY EXPENSIVE LIVING). What do you guys think? thanks.
It looks like you posted this same/similar question in several different areas but apparently not on the Compass area. Just curious why not there if you were looking for views from both airlines?

And did you really get through the interview process and receive a job offer from both companies having never posted here before?

Seems a little late in the game to be doing research for your decision making process.

cleared2land
01-17-2018, 06:12 PM
Neither. Go with Endeavor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fr8Thrust
01-17-2018, 08:29 PM
Hello, I had couple questions and looking for some advise in choosing a an FO position. I have an offer from Compass and Envoy to start this January. I have lots of family in Phx and really considering living here because of the base Compass just opened. Living would be much easier(FINANCIALLY) and no commute really. If i go with Envoy has flow and id be living in Chicago or New York by looking at my seniority class pick. (as well REALLY EXPENSIVE LIVING). What do you guys think? thanks.

PHX base is available as a new hire; all bases are junior right now. I would highly recommend CPZ in your position. If you get LAX or SEA initially, we exclusively fly LAX-bound DL flights and you can reserve one of the 3 available jumpseats on those flights. 40 pilots who used to commute PHX-LAX are now home-based, which helps everybody. Commuting to DFW, or the Northeast is much more difficult; typically full load factors, unstable weather, ATC delays etc. Financial stability is huge when starting out your career! When I came to CPZ we made 1.5 times more money than ENY, which they now pay roughly the same, bonuses excluded. CP offers a 17k sign-on. Travel perks are roughy the same, the only difference is ENY traded priority on their own planes for better mainline priority. CP has good attrition/movement right now, more CP pilots are being picked up by DL now than were during flow! This leaves us with a 2 year upgrade, 3.5 year avg seniority. ENY flow is currently estimated at 9 years. Also, our AA contract is solid; we are the best performing Eagle carrier, and we cost less. Our AA flying is automatically renewed if performance metrics are met, which we far exceed and are consistently receiving awards from AA mgmt. Our DL routes arenít going anywhere either. DL mgmt is still highly invested in CP, even though they donít own us anymore. CP has better reserve rules and commuter benefits (hotels, jump), and from what my friends at ENY have told me, we (CP) have better trips, hotels, no 3 Days trips to West TX, and we cannot 30-in-7 on the road. Keep asking around (remember we are all somewhat bias) and go where you feel most comfortable, thatís easy, and pays the most.

CaptJackSparrow
01-18-2018, 08:57 AM
Travel perks are roughy the same

What planet are you living on?

Fr8Thrust
01-18-2018, 10:47 AM
What planet are you living on?

Getting cleared first on your own flights is important to some of us. AACs go just after D2. Plus CP offers DL travel too.

Did I miss anything? Minus a few D3 passes. You get D1?

AeroEnvoy
01-18-2018, 12:20 PM
Getting cleared first on your own flights is important to some of us. AACs go just after D2. Plus CP offers DL travel too.

Did I miss anything? Minus a few D3 passes. You get D1?

D1, Jumpseat priorities below AA pilots and above OL jumpseaters on AA flights. AACs also go below D2Rs and D2Ps plus we are eligible for first class(although unlikely you'll get it). As far as performance, every single ffd carrier and wo claim to have the best AA performance. Other than that I would agree with all your other CP points.

bigtime209
01-18-2018, 12:34 PM
Getting cleared first on your own flights is important to some of us. AACs go just after D2. Plus CP offers DL travel too.

Did I miss anything? Minus a few D3 passes. You get D1?

Some of us use our flight benefits to go to cool places for fun like Europe, Asia, South America, Caribbean, etc. Having the same priority as AA is priceless, especially for getting a business/first class seat. But yes, if it's important to have priority on one of a handful destinations in the southwest U.S., then Compass is where it's at. Not to mention a WO's ramper's mother has priority over Compass pilots on any AA or Eagle flight that isn't Compass.

CaptJackSparrow
01-18-2018, 12:38 PM
Getting cleared first on your own flights is important to some of us. AACs go just after D2. Plus CP offers DL travel too.

Did I miss anything? Minus a few D3 passes. You get D1?

AACs actually go after D2R which basically puts them at the bottom. And Envoy has jumpseat priority on AA flights over other non-WO pilots. I assume you don't commute because for a large portion of pilots who commute at Envoy (and pilots in general), we have to use mainline to get to base. So being at the bottom of the priority list with other pilots ahead of you for the jumpseat doesn't sound like a great commute. Especially on a messy day. When the standby list is over 100 people long. And you just want to get home.

Unless you live in a city that compass serves, getting cleared first on your metal serves little advantage compared to having much better priority throughout the entire American system.

I've heard you guys have to pay for flight benefits and to list as AAC. We don't. Also heard priority on Delta is just as bad as AAC however I have no direct experience with either of those claims.

ceelo
01-18-2018, 12:40 PM
Some of us use our flight benefits to go to cool places for fun like Europe, Asia, South America, Caribbean, etc. Having the same priority as AA is priceless, especially for getting a business/first class seat. But yes, if it's important to have priority on one of a handful destinations in the southwest U.S., then Compass is where it's at. Not to mention a WO's ramper's mother has priority over Compass pilots on any AA or Eagle flight that isn't Compass.

hahaha

/10char

bigtime209
01-18-2018, 01:05 PM
All completely false. Compass is AAs top performer. And it does not "expire" in two years. It becomes ammendable. So far compass has vastly exceeded all performance metrics. So why would they take them back from a better performing and cheaper regional than envoy?

Source? Because AA stopped publishing regional performance numbers a couple of years ago.

Disclaimer: I, nor do the majority of us here want those planes. We don't want growth as it's only harming our pilot group.

N200NN
01-18-2018, 02:00 PM
I also have it on good authority that the 20 compass 175s will be coming to Envoy.

Been hearing that since N200NN was still in little unassembled pieces in the factory in Brazil....

FullThrust
01-18-2018, 02:22 PM
Source? Because AA stopped publishing regional performance numbers a couple of years ago.

Disclaimer: I, nor do the majority of us here want those planes. We don't want growth as it's only harming our pilot group.

False. You just donít know where to look.

bigtime209
01-18-2018, 02:26 PM
False. You just donít know where to look.

Lay it on me

Fr8Thrust
01-18-2018, 04:52 PM
Not to mention a WO's ramper's mother has priority over Compass pilots on any AA or Eagle flight that isn't Compass.

Quite often AAC employees get cleared first on OAL AAC Metal, even though thatís not correct.

AACs actually go after D2R which basically puts them at the bottom. And Envoy has jumpseat priority on AA flights over other non-WO pilots. I assume you don't commute because for a large portion of pilots who commute at Envoy (and pilots in general), we have to use mainline to get to base. So being at the bottom of the priority list with other pilots ahead of you for the jumpseat doesn't sound like a great commute. Especially on a messy day. When the standby list is over 100 people long. And you just want to get home.

Unless you live in a city that compass serves, getting cleared first on your metal serves little advantage compared to having much better priority throughout the entire American system.

I've heard you guys have to pay for flight benefits and to list as AAC. We don't. Also heard priority on Delta is just as bad as AAC however I have no direct experience with either of those claims.

Actually AAC comes before D3, oneworld ZED, general ZED, OAL pilot jumps, and lastly OAL FA jumps.....but like you said dead last! *sarcasm. It could be better but itís certainly not the worst.

CP pilots do have jump priority on DL flights right after DL pilots (as DCX).

For AA jump, you can checkin for your D6 listing up to 24 hours in advance anywhere in the US. So really not much to worry about being behind AA pilots and WOs(who donít overlap with our network) and competing with others. Plus you can list as AAC, and convert to D6 at the last minute and still make out ahead of the other non AA affiliates on the D6 list.

I have been a commuter. And we serve just about every major city within 3 hours of LAX, and often those flights are nearly full. I can count on three hands how many times weíve bumped mainline off cabin seats and jumps to get to work. Not to mention, we have an internal jumpseat reservation system.

We do pay annual fees and only parents pay segment fees ($30 max). Priority on DL is DOH on CP flights, and behind DGS managers on mainline.

I seem to be able to get upgrades at least once a month, and travel anywhere I want with my dependents worldwide, using AA, DL, jump or ZED.

Our AA perks are not as good as WO. But we have two airlines to travel on and that allows us to bounce flights to get where we need to. Iíll leave it at this: in 3 years I have never been stuck.

Baradium
01-19-2018, 01:23 PM
CP pilots do have jump priority on DL flights right after DL and EDV pilots (as DCX).


Minor nitpick, but in the spirit of accuracy. I fixed that for you.

Everything else seemed correct to me.