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View Full Version : Which of you bet?


Bluedriver
01-17-2018, 04:43 PM
It wasn't long ago some of you made a bet we would have an agreement before Spirit. Want to come forward?


hyperboy
01-17-2018, 05:06 PM
It wasn't long ago some of you made a bet we would have an agreement before Spirit. Want to come forward?

You are Bully and a coward! Man up!

Alterbridge
01-17-2018, 05:33 PM
It wasn't long ago some of you made a bet we would have an agreement before Spirit. Want to come forward?

Jesus Christ.

Your incessant need for validation is fascinating, yet irritating. Starting a thread......for the likes of this?

Here, I'll help.

Yes. You're right. You've been right all along. The (very few)
others you target here with your post(s) have, apparently, not been right.

Does that help?

Except, this isn't the first airline contract go-'round for most of us. You seem to think it is. Most of us don't choose to engage with you (and you can consider me TOTD for doing so). Yet, the vast majority actually agree with your belief of the whole circus (more validation for you). And it's the same ol' back and forth with the same ol' players. It's tiresome. And unproductive (Yeah. I know. Ignore function). And you or anyone else will not sway another's beliefs on a dopey internet forum.

Let it go.

You and the other players can eviscerate me all you want. Don't care. Won't reply.

Because, except for those select minority juicers (who also won't sway any arguments) we really are desirous of the same thing.

See you on 1/31.


Southerner
01-17-2018, 05:44 PM
Jesus Christ.



Your incessant need for validation is fascinating, yet irritating. Starting a thread......for the likes of this?



Here, I'll help.



Yes. You're right. You've been right all along. The (very few)

others you target here with your post(s) have, apparently, not been right.



Does that help?



Except, this isn't the first airline contract go-'round for most of us. You seem to think it is. Most of us don't choose to engage with you (and you can consider me TOTD for doing so). Yet, the vast majority actually agree with your belief of the whole circus (more validation for you). And it's the same ol' back and forth with the same ol' players. It's tiresome. And unproductive (Yeah. I know. Ignore function). And you or anyone else will not sway another's beliefs on a dopey internet forum.



Let it go.



You and the other players can eviscerate me all you want. Don't care. Won't reply.



Because, except for those select minority juicers (who also won't sway any arguments) we really are desirous of the same thing.



See you on 1/31.



We all want the same thing. Even those of us who they think are "juicers." We just don't agree on the negativity.


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MainlineFlyer
01-18-2018, 11:04 AM
It wasn't long ago some of you made a bet we would have an agreement before Spirit. Want to come forward?

It is amazing what an illegal job action can accomplish!

atrdriver
01-18-2018, 03:21 PM
We all want the same thing. Even those of us who they think are "juicers." We just don't agree on the negativity.


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Anyone who "wants the same thing" would follow the very basic instructions of their MEC and wear a simple ALPA lanyard, don't you think?

PasserOGas
01-18-2018, 03:43 PM
We all want the same thing. Even those of us who they think are "juicers." We just don't agree on the negativity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree. I like to look at the positives, like how much money in bonuses and stock buybacks RH and the ELT will make this year thanks to our low compensation! Good for you guys! Great job! Just happy to be here! If you can lower my pay or make me even more productive you could make even MORE! Talk to Southerner about it. He will work for free if you ask him to! No pay rate low enough to get upset about for him!

Bozo the pilot
01-18-2018, 03:47 PM
We all want the same thing. Even those of us who they think are "juicers." We just don't agree on the negativity.


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Well South, your constant defense of B6 and claim that its a great place to work is not agreed upon by many either.
Negativity, on its own, is not constructive, but how can you defend the plain facts that B6 does not give a sh!t about its pilots?
I have yet to see you list the many problems with this "Major"- All I ever read from you is a vilification of those of us awake enough to state the obvious.
No offense, but the schoolhouse has skewed your perspective for life.
Just go back and read your posts- they are all in defense of this cheap and dishonest airline. We deserve better from them-- and from you.
Hope youre well.
Bz

Southerner
01-18-2018, 03:57 PM
Anyone who "wants the same thing" would follow the very basic instructions of their MEC and wear a simple ALPA lanyard, don't you think?



Nope. That's your opinion, and how you choose to support. I feel differently.


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Bluedriver
01-18-2018, 04:06 PM
Jesus Christ.

Your incessant need for validation is fascinating, yet irritating. Starting a thread......for the likes of this?

Here, I'll help.

Yes. You're right. You've been right all along. The (very few)
others you target here with your post(s) have, apparently, not been right.

Does that help?

Except, this isn't the first airline contract go-'round for most of us. You seem to think it is. Most of us don't choose to engage with you (and you can consider me TOTD for doing so). Yet, the vast majority actually agree with your belief of the whole circus (more validation for you). And it's the same ol' back and forth with the same ol' players. It's tiresome. And unproductive (Yeah. I know. Ignore function). And you or anyone else will not sway another's beliefs on a dopey internet forum.

Let it go.

You and the other players can eviscerate me all you want. Don't care. Won't reply.

Because, except for those select minority juicers (who also won't sway any arguments) we really are desirous of the same thing.

See you on 1/31.

It's not really about my need for validation, although I can see how the casual observer might see that.

It is primarily about those who said I was "just being negative" and "not informed" and "you don't read your union emails" and "you're wrong, it will be done by summer 2017" and "you're wrong, it will surely be done by end of year 2017" and "#keepsgettingbetter" and "management is negotiating in good faith" and "at least our negotiations isn't going like Spirit's" and "I'll bet we have an agreement before Spirit" and PUKE!

It's about reality and learning, for those that need it...

And there are several who NEED it.

Bluedriver
01-18-2018, 04:07 PM
I didn't think any of you would own your previous remarks. So predictable.

P-3Bubba
01-18-2018, 04:24 PM
More negative vibes come from the company, as they extend their anti-pilot action in preventing MCO mobile billboards. If thatís not a sign of the times then I donít know what is? Spirit pilots will be crushing pay rates 35%+ great than Jblue. And we get to suck on an email from WC saying ďthese thing take a long timeĒ. Ok. Cough. Cough. Doesnít WC know thereís a nasty bout of flu going around?

-Bubs

hyperboy
01-18-2018, 07:39 PM
It's not really about my need for validation, although I can see how the casual observer might see that.

It is primarily about those who said I was "just being negative" and "not informed" and "you don't read your union emails" and "you're wrong, it will be done by summer 2017" and "you're wrong, it will surely be done by end of year 2017" and "#keepsgettingbetter" and "management is negotiating in good faith" and "at least our negotiations isn't going like Spirit's" and "I'll bet we have an agreement before Spirit" and PUKE!

It's about reality and learning, for those that need it...

And there are several who NEED it.

Is that done by bullying and being a coward? Call me. Man up!

hilltopflyer
01-18-2018, 08:19 PM
More negative vibes come from the company, as they extend their anti-pilot action in preventing MCO mobile billboards. If thatís not a sign of the times then I donít know what is? Spirit pilots will be crushing pay rates 35%+ great than Jblue. And we get to suck on an email from WC saying ďthese thing take a long timeĒ. Ok. Cough. Cough. Doesnít WC know thereís a nasty bout of flu going around?

-Bubs

Shows that they care.

django
01-19-2018, 02:02 AM
Most of us posting ARE in need of validation. So there.

So the SVP says this things take a long time.... Interesting that a first time and only airline experience ex military pilot would be so aware of collective bargaining time lines.

CaptCoolHand
01-19-2018, 03:20 AM
Most of us posting ARE in need of validation. So there.

So the SVP says this things take a long time.... Interesting that a first time and only airline experience ex military pilot would be so aware of collective bargaining time lines.

Warren was united prior to jetblue.

Gearswinger
01-19-2018, 04:25 AM
And beyond that, anyone can read a book and talk to people who have been through contract negotiations before. He know how long things take, and is choosing to take the long road.

Tom a Hawk
01-19-2018, 06:16 AM
I didn't think any of you would own your previous remarks. So predictable.

I donít know that I said it here, but I never would have thought spirit would have an agreement before us. I thought they had screwed the pooch, and mgmt would be willing turn their backs farther on them. Heck, maybe they did. Maybe the aip is good but not great because of it. Just outside looking in.

I do think we need to avoid a major mess like they had though. We need to continue to follow the mec and step correct in order to have the best negotiating position.

PasserOGas
01-19-2018, 06:21 AM
I donít know that I said it here, but I never would have thought spirit would have an agreement before us. I thought they had screwed the pooch, and mgmt would be willing turn their backs farther on them. Heck, maybe they did. Maybe the aip is good but not great because of it. Just outside looking in.

I do think we need to avoid a major mess like they had though. We need to continue to follow the mec and step correct in order to have the best negotiating position.


Yes we do.

Fly SOP.

Don't release to parking brake before you are allowed to.

Write everything up when you become aware of it.

Don't fly fatigued.

Wear your lanyard.

Basically be the opposite of Southerner.

Southerner
01-19-2018, 06:24 AM
Yes we do.



Fly SOP.



Don't release to parking brake before you are allowed to.



Write everything up when you become aware of it.



Don't fly fatigued.



Wear your lanyard.



Basically be the opposite of Southerner.



Of the list above, the only thing that I don't do is wear the lanyard. I've never carried mechanicals, because it's illegal. And I was an instructor, so I fly SOP. Not sure why any of that is controversial.


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Bluedriver
01-19-2018, 06:45 AM
I donít know that I said it here, but I never would have thought spirit would have an agreement before us. I thought they had screwed the pooch, and mgmt would be willing turn their backs farther on them. Heck, maybe they did. Maybe the aip is good but not great because of it. Just outside looking in.

I do think we need to avoid a major mess like they had though. We need to continue to follow the mec and step correct in order to have the best negotiating position.

The big mess was pilots openly calling for a job action on public message boards. Yeah, don't do that.

And our union can't blatantly say "do a job action guys" either. But, they have said strict adherence to SOP and maybe reconsider doing more than your required job description. So far our guys have not reconsidered.... We even have line pilots helping the company recruit pilots to the lowest paid "major" airline and discouraging negative speech about JB!

We are a big group of Rocket Surgeons I tell ya!

PasserOGas
01-19-2018, 07:22 AM
The big mess was pilots openly calling for a job action on public message boards. Yeah, don't do that.

And our union can't blatantly say "do a job action guys" either. But, they have said strict adherence to SOP and maybe reconsider doing more than your required job description. So far our guys have not reconsidered.... We even have line pilots helping the company recruit pilots to the lowest paid "major" airline and discouraging negative speech about JB!

We are a big group of Rocket Surgeons I tell ya!

Read between the lines dumb$h!ts. No hope for this place.

rvr1800
01-19-2018, 07:32 AM
Read between the lines dumb$h!ts. No hope for this place.

There is no ďbetween the linesĒ message. Your MEC has been clear. Fly SOP, if itís broken write it up, and do your job and only your job.

PasserOGas
01-19-2018, 07:44 AM
There is no ďbetween the linesĒ message. Your MEC has been clear. Fly SOP, if itís broken write it up, and do your job and only your job.

There is a reason SPA has an AIP and we don't. I will leave it there.

rvr1800
01-19-2018, 09:08 AM
There is a reason SPA has an AIP and we don't. I will leave it there.

A pretty underwhelming AIP. So thatís not a great argument.

PasserOGas
01-19-2018, 09:15 AM
A pretty underwhelming AIP. So thatís not a great argument.

More than we make.

rvr1800
01-19-2018, 10:56 AM
More than we make.

Touchť

....

Southerner
01-19-2018, 11:36 AM
A pretty underwhelming AIP. So thatís not a great argument.



What are the work rules like? The W2 matters more than the pay rate.


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captsurf
01-19-2018, 12:27 PM
5:00 min DUTY period. Same as ours. However, they have a provision for layovers >24hrs credits another duty period.


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queue
01-19-2018, 01:34 PM
You are Bully and a coward! Man up!

Ahhh... poor baby. Do you need a safe space now?

Perhaps you should "man up" yourself, by firstly getting some expressions that aren't used by 16 year olds.

queue
01-19-2018, 01:39 PM
More negative vibes come from the company, as they extend their anti-pilot action in preventing MCO mobile billboards. If thatís not a sign of the times then I donít know what is? Spirit pilots will be crushing pay rates 35%+ great than Jblue. And we get to suck on an email from WC saying ďthese thing take a long timeĒ. Ok. Cough. Cough. Doesnít WC know thereís a nasty bout of flu going around?

-Bubs

I'm asking in general, does anyone have any good ideas to supplement the trucks? I'd hate to see BJ succeed at this.

queue
01-19-2018, 01:41 PM
Of the list above, the only thing that I don't do is wear the lanyard. I've never carried mechanicals, because it's illegal. And I was an instructor, so I fly SOP. Not sure why any of that is controversial.


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If I may ask, why do you not wear a lanyard? I'd really like to know why.

tomgoodman
01-19-2018, 01:59 PM
If I may ask, why do you not wear a lanyard? I'd really like to know why.

I heard an office worker say he would never wear a lanyard again.
Got his ID caught in the paper shredder. :eek:

PasserOGas
01-19-2018, 03:57 PM
I heard an office worker say he would never wear a lanyard again.
Got his ID caught in the paper shredder. :eek:

ALPA took his red swingline stapler. Also, he enjoys working against the pilot group.

P-3Bubba
01-19-2018, 05:28 PM
W2? LOL!!!! Southerner you have derailed. In your version of the CBA we’ll take a pay cut for more pizza. You know what? F- the pizza give me the pay cut! We’ll just work more to make more $. Everyone wins.

-Bubs

GuppyPuppy
01-20-2018, 06:36 AM
More negative vibes come from the company, as they extend their anti-pilot action in preventing MCO mobile billboards. If thatís not a sign of the times then I donít know what is? Spirit pilots will be crushing pay rates 35%+ great than Jblue. And we get to suck on an email from WC saying ďthese thing take a long timeĒ. Ok. Cough. Cough. Doesnít WC know thereís a nasty bout of flu going around?

-Bubs

The really sad thing is that guys like WC, RC, CS, et. al...all got into this gig as a pilot. Someone who enjoys flying. Somewhere along in their careers they all were tempted by the Dark Side, justifying their actions along the way. Now they are the complete and total enemy to this PILOT group.

Every day that this drags out is another day of reduced pay, benefits and work rules. Another day of reduced input into our retirement plans (which is compounded over time).

Thanks a lot you traitors!

See you on the picket line on the 31st.

Gup

GuppyPuppy
01-20-2018, 06:44 AM
I'm asking in general, does anyone have any good ideas to supplement the trucks? I'd hate to see BJ succeed at this.

Rent some parking spots near the airport for temporary Pilot parking. Then advertise on the parking shuttles. They could run 24/7.

Gup

slimothy
01-20-2018, 06:48 AM
I'm asking in general, does anyone have any good ideas to supplement the trucks? I'd hate to see BJ succeed at this.

What did I miss? How is the Co blocking our mobile billboards?

capt707
01-20-2018, 06:52 AM
What did I miss? How is the Co blocking our mobile billboards?

JetBlue management coordinated with the Greater Orlando Airport Authority (GOAA) to muzzle our free speech.

hilltopflyer
01-20-2018, 06:58 AM
JetBlue management coordinated with the Greater Orlando Airport Authority (GOAA) to muzzle our free speech.

Ya but how did they do it? Didn't think they could stop someone from driving. But it also shows you that they tried it in our other bases and failed.

captsurf
01-20-2018, 07:53 AM
Govt shutdown. So much for mediation this week


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Judge Smails
01-20-2018, 09:24 AM
Read between the lines dumb$h!ts. No hope for this place.

Just be careful guys. When we got hit with the TRO, there were many pages in the court documents quoting APC threads. Just remember anything you post here IS being watched by management.

GuppyPuppy
01-20-2018, 10:24 AM
Just be careful guys. When we got hit with the TRO, there were many pages in the court documents quoting APC threads. Just remember anything you post here IS being watched by management.

I hope they read this:

My enthusiasm for this company dwindles every day that this contract drags out. Get this contract wrapped up so you don't lose my enthusiasm forever.

GP

hilltopflyer
01-20-2018, 11:47 AM
I hope they read this:

My enthusiasm for this company dwindles every day that this contract drags out. Get this contract wrapped up so you don't lose my enthusiasm forever.

GP

Yep. If they don't get it done soon the morale and the caring about the company (people going above and beyond) is going to be gone forever. I really don't want that

P-3Bubba
01-20-2018, 12:59 PM
Just be careful guys. When we got hit with the TRO, there were many pages in the court documents quoting APC threads. Just remember anything you post here IS being watched by management.

So APC threads that could possibly be management or Russians posting whatever they want are admissible in courts as evidence of UA work action? I’d love to be the lawyer who gets to argue against that.

-Bubs

P-3Bubba
01-20-2018, 01:11 PM
Yep. If they don't get it done soon the morale and the caring about the company (people going above and beyond) is going to be gone forever. I really don't want that

Yup. The company is messing up. I think there are some really grumpy fellas negotiating for the company that have an axe to grind against the rest of the pilots. They’re ****ed because they got burned by usAir and the yesterday ways of unions and CBAs. They need to let go and move out.

The company wins with an agreement that matches AK. Seriously, I think they only need to get close to AK and we’ll sign off on it. There are more and more guys that I run into, who in the past, would NEVER have said a harsh word about specific Jblue management or practices. Now, they’re exploring their negative thoughts.

They’re losing the goodwill like Hilltops saying. Jetblue carries about $1billion in its market cap that’s ALL Brand. You lose the brand and you lose the company. So keep it up Company negotiators. Watch the Brand suffer.

-Bubs

rvr1800
01-20-2018, 02:32 PM
So APC threads that could possibly be management or Russians posting whatever they want are admissible in courts as evidence of UA work action? Iíd love to be the lawyer who gets to argue against that.

-Bubs

Apparently you donít know about IP addresses. There were individual pilots named in the lawsuit against SPA as well as ALPA collectively. They got those names from a subpoena/warrant to APC. So yeah if they want to they will find out who you are Bubba.

Tom a Hawk
01-20-2018, 05:14 PM
So APC threads that could possibly be management or Russians posting whatever they want are admissible in courts as evidence of UA work action? Iíd love to be the lawyer who gets to argue against that.

-Bubs

Spiritís alpa lawyer didnít get to. Company presented their side to the judge and the judge wouldnít even speak to alpa because it was that clear. Please listen to your mec. Take them at face value.

P-3Bubba
01-20-2018, 05:49 PM
This industry is sooo great.

The Golf Channel TV technicians walked out during a live broadcast last week. They had been in negotiations for a year with no progress.

Iím not starting a UA job action. Iím not worried about my IP address. I do as the MEC guides and what the company asks. The whole point is thereís no need for drama. Everyone is in a good position to win.

-Bubs

WhistlePig
01-20-2018, 05:59 PM
Apparently you donít know about IP addresses. There were individual pilots named in the lawsuit against SPA as well as ALPA collectively. They got those names from a subpoena/warrant to APC. So yeah if they want to they will find out who you are Bubba.

I would hope by now everyone who travels for a living and frequently uses unsecured WiFi would use a VPN.

Bozo the pilot
01-21-2018, 05:24 PM
I would hope by now everyone who travels for a living and frequently uses unsecured WiFi would use a VPN.

Whats a VPN? :D:D

captsurf
01-22-2018, 05:23 AM
Speaking of bets, Iíll assume mediation is off the table this week with the govt shutdown...

Bets on whether or not the company still wants to meet and play ball? Bets on whether or not theyíll make any sort of offer?


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P-3Bubba
01-22-2018, 09:46 AM
If I was the company negotiator Iíd put another full offer on the table without the mediator. This gives fhe company a positive leverage position as it shows good faith in presenting an offer in unmediated sessions and while thereís a picket at a major hub. Iíd make sure the offer was about 70% of what AK/VA received but have it beat the Spirit AIP by just a little bit.

I hope this is what happens as it would be the catalyst that gets our negotiations movingly toward a positive close for both sides. Is till believe there is a lot of room on both sides to find success in an agreement.

-Bubs

captsurf
01-22-2018, 10:19 AM
If I was the company negotiator Iíd put another full offer on the table without the mediator. This gives fhe company a positive leverage position as it shows good faith in presenting an offer in unmediated sessions and while thereís a picket at a major hub. Iíd make sure the offer was about 70% of what AK/VA received but have it beat the Spirit AIP by just a little bit.



I hope this is what happens as it would be the catalyst that gets our negotiations movingly toward a positive close for both sides. Is till believe there is a lot of room on both sides to find success in an agreement.



-Bubs



Agreed Bubs. While Iím not hopeful of any major progress this week, I think the fact that they were able to hammer out Scope outside of mediation shows the company is willing to come forward without a mediator in the room. Since ALPA is the one that filed for mediation, the company could just as well say ďif this is how you want this to go (mediation) then thatís how we are going to play itĒ but that doesnít seem to be the case.

Still have to remember that the last time the company made a compensation offer, was last mediation session, and that was back on Oct 31st (pre AK/VA arbitration award). So itís been 2 months since the last mediation session, and since the last real ďofferĒ has been made. They have to have something new and (hopefully) better prepared by now. Itís just a matter of whether or not theyíll put it on the table without the babysitter sitting in the room... So who knows what could transpire in the next week. Plus 2(?) unmediated sessions in Feb.

I hope they are still meeting this week, as I feel the unionís update summing up this weeks meetings will be a major turning point going forward. Whether that turn is for the better or worse is the million dollar question


Regardless, see everyone Jan31st.

queue
01-22-2018, 01:43 PM
Ya but how did they do it? Didn't think they could stop someone from driving. But it also shows you that they tried it in our other bases and failed.

They must have some kind of freedom of information act system in place. Federal government agencies have to answer to FOIA requests. State government requests for information vary but generally they are similar to federal government FOIA requests. Governments more local than that also usually have similar processes. I for one would like to see the Union get a FOIA request completed that conclusively proveS that JetBlue stifled free speech. Any citizen of the United States can make such a request and generally they have to reply with in 10 days or so. If they filibuster and they do not provide information or they have other excuses, then we can assume there is foul play involved. Alternatively, jurisdictions usually have to hold a formal process to enact such a directive (stopping the trucks). This is mean that they get to pick and choose who can advertise on private vehicles? Does this mean that they are banning all advertising on private vehicles on airport property? Or does this mean that they are using government power to discriminate? Is this a conspiratorial collusion between a corporation and a government agency? Either way, this looks like a legal case that needs to be pursued even if remedied. There is nothing stopping from ALPA from suing the municipality and letting the court system figure out whether there was improper use of governmental power. I think it would look pretty bad for JetBlue if they are caught abusing improper relationships with government public servants. Lastly, if they were found to be colluding, and if I were ALPA, I would never settle for some kind of monetary payout combined with a nondisclosure clause.

hilltopflyer
01-22-2018, 02:00 PM
They must have some kind of freedom of information act system in place. Federal government agencies have to answer to FOIA requests. State government requests for information vary but generally they are similar to federal government FOIA requests. Governments more local than that also usually have similar processes. I for one would like to see the Union get a FOIA request completed that conclusively proveS that JetBlue stifled free speech. Any citizen of the United States can make such a request and generally they have to reply with in 10 days or so. If they filibuster and they do not provide information or they have other excuses, then we can assume there is foul play involved. Alternatively, jurisdictions usually have to hold a formal process to enact such a directive (stopping the trucks). This is mean that they get to pick and choose who can advertise on private vehicles? Does this mean that they are banning all advertising on private vehicles on airport property? Or does this mean that they are using government power to discriminate? Is this a conspiratorial collusion between a corporation and a government agency? Either way, this looks like a legal case that needs to be pursued even if remedied. There is nothing stopping from ALPA from suing the municipality and letting the court system figure out whether there was improper use of governmental power. I think it would look pretty bad for JetBlue if they are caught abusing improper relationships with government public servants. Lastly, if they were found to be colluding, and if I were ALPA, I would never settle for some kind of monetary payout combined with a nondisclosure clause.

I'm guessing the ALPA lawyer knows this. If not time to get a new one

queue
01-22-2018, 02:01 PM
Apparently you donít know about IP addresses. There were individual pilots named in the lawsuit against SPA as well as ALPA collectively. They got those names from a subpoena/warrant to APC. So yeah if they want to they will find out who you are Bubba.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/16/34/d7/1634d7bab15de1610baad337019bcbfd.jpg

Hereís security 101.


Never use one of those free services like Gmail, Outlook, Yahoo! Mail, Hotmail, and so on.
Never use your real name on any social media like Facebook or LinkedIn. In fact, never use Facebook or LinkedIn! Contrary to popular belief, none of the systems are private because there simply isnít a law that protects anything you put on them. Any privacy policy or expectation of privacy is simply smoke & mirrors from a standpoint of law.
never use your company iPad for anything other than company business because they have the legal authority to audit and monitor anything you do on there including logging on to your private email system.
Never use any chat programs that are not end-to-end encrypted. If you use normal text messaging such as SMS text messaging or Apple iChat, all of your messages are only one bad employee away from being disclosed or otherwise extremely easily accessible even without a warrant by government agencies. And stay far away from programs like WhatsApp, which is owned by Facebook. WhatsApp has known vulnerabilities found by many security researchers around the world which they refuse to plug because those vulnerabilities are exploited by totalitarian governments and corporations around the world. All of these programs claim encryption but that is only true to a certain point. For example, many chat programs encrypt up to the server but they are stored unencrypted on the server.
donít never login anywhere to post comments using Facebook IDs or something similar to it. They all talk to each other and nothing legally protected. APC is similar because they have no legal obligation to protect who you are or identifying information such as IP address. Likewise they have no obligation to withhold anything from anyone. Their privacy policy means nothing. Unless you sign a legally binding contract such as a nondisclosure agreement, then you have no legal protection whatsoever.
donít use any websites like that other JetBlue forum that just came out which requires you to identify specifically to your person using some kind of JetBlue credential. If you canít register anonymously, boycott them!
donít use voice recognition from Apple or Google services because they all store your voice permanently, despite what they say.


here is what you should do!
1. Dump Gmail and all those other services. If you want free secure email use ProtonMail. Look it up to see why.

2. Use Signal (the only true end-to-end encryption) and possibly Telegram to do all of your voice conversations and chat. Signal is the only program that is open source meaning you can look at the source code. Itís also the only one that hasnít been compromised by anyone. Telegram might be safe but we donít really know because the developers are Russian.

Also, Signal has disappearing messages that you can set to mere seconds all the way up to weeks. Once a message gets removed from your Signal installation, there are no artifacts left anywhere in between since it is true end to end encryption. Accept no substitutes.... all those other so-called disappearing message programs like Snapchat are not what they claim. Why do you think none of them will release their source code?

3. Use VPN. If you use a United States based VPN service you basically get no protection because theyíre within United States jurisdiction. There was recently a case with in the last few months where someone was de-anonymized by their VPN provider.

You guys need to force ALPA people to take security a lot more seriously. What happened to Spirit was because they were stupid.

Fly SOP!

queue
01-22-2018, 02:08 PM
I'm guessing the ALPA lawyer knows this. If not time to get a new one

Don’t bet on it. There are all kinds of specializations in law. Even if they know about it, they might talk themselves out of even attempting it. ALPA has a great track record of getting people’s jobs back by exploiting technicalities in contract law but they’re not experts in everything else. They often succumb to false ideaologies such as “we have bigger fish to fry”.

Most importantly, you should take it upon yourselves to take individual action to help the cause. Don’t assume that you can outsource everything and that the outcome will be favorable to you. You don’t have to be a lawyer to do anything. If you have a high school education and you can read, then you can read the laws for yourself and you can write lots of letters.

Consider this, the people who were supposed to be official watchdogs for our servant government failed us during the Obama administration. It has taken public 501(c)(3) organizations and watchdog groups such as Judicial Watch to use FOIA requests (and lawsuits for not honoring FOIA) to identify corruption at the deepest levels of government. I sincerely think something fishy is going on with the government not allowing trucks to be run.

queue
01-22-2018, 02:47 PM
Agreed Bubs. While I’m not hopeful of any major progress this week, I think the fact that they were able to hammer out Scope outside of mediation shows the company is willing to come forward without a mediator in the room. Since ALPA is the one that filed for mediation, the company could just as well say “if this is how you want this to go (mediation) then that’s how we are going to play it” but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Still have to remember that the last time the company made a compensation offer, was last mediation session, and that was back on Oct 31st (pre AK/VA arbitration award). So it’s been 2 months since the last mediation session, and since the last real “offer” has been made. They have to have something new and (hopefully) better prepared by now. It’s just a matter of whether or not they’ll put it on the table without the babysitter sitting in the room... So who knows what could transpire in the next week. Plus 2(?) unmediated sessions in Feb.

I hope they are still meeting this week, as I feel the union’s update summing up this weeks meetings will be a major turning point going forward. Whether that turn is for the better or worse is the million dollar question


Regardless, see everyone Jan31st.


I think it’s important that nobody be misled into false choices. If JetBlue wanted to, they could end it all today by offering better pay, benefits, and work rules then Delta overnight. Whatever they end up offering, I hope nobody ever accepts that it’s the best we could ever get. When you’re begging for table scraps, you’ll be happy with anything. When you’re a prisoner of war, you learn to love your captor. JetBlue is betting on this. As we have already seen, Spirit’s union has largely caved in because they got something that is better than the table scraps they had.

hilltopflyer
01-22-2018, 05:02 PM
I think itís important that nobody be misled into false choices. If JetBlue wanted to, they could end it all today by offering better pay, benefits, and work rules then Delta overnight. Whatever they end up offering, I hope nobody ever accepts that itís the best we could ever get. When youíre begging for table scraps, youíll be happy with anything. When youíre a prisoner of war, you learn to love your captor. JetBlue is betting on this. As we have already seen, Spiritís union has largely caved in because they got something that is better than the table scraps they had.

I trust in our mec not to send out anything close to spirit. If so I'll vote no asap

Bozo the pilot
01-22-2018, 05:19 PM
I trust in our mec not to send out anything close to spirit. If so I'll vote no asap

I doubt they will- I believe they are in tune with this pilot group and want a high % yes vote. They know we wonít accept anything similar to the recent TAs.

P-3Bubba
01-23-2018, 12:46 PM
Iíve heard, via Spirit guys in the van, that theyíre arenít too pumped up about the AIP. HOWEVER, watch it pass with a big thumbs up.

When are they voting?


-Bubs

P-3Bubba
01-23-2018, 12:47 PM
When is the inflight union vote?

CaptCoolHand
01-23-2018, 01:21 PM
When is the inflight union vote?

Last I heard they were still counting cards.
Company supplied signatures on last day possible.



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