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Sus Scrofa
01-18-2018, 10:37 AM
Hey all, I'm a military pilot still a few years away from entering civil professional flying. The location I want to retire has a decent sized corporate flight department that I would like to end up with until I'm done working altogether.

Are any of you (and should I be) concerned that corporate flight departments may be downsizing or going away in the next 15-20 years due to worldwide hiring trends?


The Plainsman
01-18-2018, 11:12 AM
Longevity really depends on the industry that said corporate flight department is a part of. Bristol-Myers Squib was a charter member of NBAA and they no longer have a corporate flight department. New CEO's like to come in and "leave their mark" on the company and will shutter a department in order to manipulate an earnings statement to get performance bonuses. On the flip side, certain economic segments i.e. food, utilities, govt contractors tend to have more staying power.

Sus Scrofa
01-18-2018, 12:21 PM
Longevity really depends on the industry that said corporate flight department is a part of. Bristol-Myers Squib was a charter member of NBAA and they no longer have a corporate flight department. New CEO's like to come in and "leave their mark" on the company and will shutter a department in order to manipulate an earnings statement to get performance bonuses. On the flip side, certain economic segments i.e. food, utilities, govt contractors tend to have more staying power.

Thanks for the reply and that makes sense.


galaxy flyer
01-18-2018, 01:09 PM
Owens-Illinois has had a department for decades in KTOL , through two asbestos-driven bankruptcies. It’s been smaller and bigger, flown all sizes of planes. The director has been in place much of those years and done quite well. Department longevity is dependent on lots of things-mgt support, how it’s businesses are located and why, is the department leadership good at managing it (produce value for expenses; and “selling” to management or the owner.

True private jets (HNWIs, usually) last as long as the money. The owner and principals value the plane as a means to conduct business and get back home/office. For these people, the plane is just like their limo-irreplaceable and not expensive. Every operation is unique.

GF

dbflyer
01-18-2018, 02:48 PM
I'm at a utility company flight dept. Department has been around more than 30yrs when I came 10 years ago it felt more secure than a government job. Just today all the pilots were talking about concerns that the department doesn't feel secure right now due to some changing circumstances out of our control. If the business model changes the need for the department may change.

I think there is always a possibility for things to change quickly at a corporate dept and you need to be ready for the next move. If they are not in the business of flying airplanes, the expense has to be justified all the time. There you are a little at the mercy of the flight department manager as to whether or not he is good explaining all the tangible and non-tangible benefits of the department to the decision makers.

BPWI
01-19-2018, 06:26 AM
Owens-Illinois has had a department for decades in KTOL , through two asbestos-driven bankruptcies. Its been smaller and bigger, flown all sizes of planes. The director has been in place much of those years and done quite well. Department longevity is dependent on lots of things-mgt support, how its businesses are located and why, is the department leadership good at managing it (produce value for expenses; and selling to management or the owner.

True private jets (HNWIs, usually) last as long as the money. The owner and principals value the plane as a means to conduct business and get back home/office. For these people, the plane is just like their limo-irreplaceable and not expensive. Every operation is unique.

GF

TS @ Owens is one of the nicest guys you can meet in this business. I hear he's approaching his 40th anniversary this year. Couldn't happen to a better guy.

Red Forman
01-19-2018, 06:45 PM
Weve had a flight department since WWII. One of our pilots has been here 30 years, and another 43 years. Its not common, but occasionally it does happen.

challengerflyer
01-24-2018, 09:26 PM
I just completed my 13th year (or about 100 in corporate pilot years) with a 91 department in what would be considered a growth industry. There's simply no way in predicting what will happen down the road, you just have to hope for the best or, if things appear shaky, chances are your gut is right and it's time for a change. Guys that had 30 or 40 years with the same department have found themselves SOL just as they were about to cross the finish line. Bizav is littered with established departments that ended up shutting down for a myriad of reasons. I don't think corporate aviation will go away anytime soon, but the companies who do decide to go that route are more and more cautious once they get in. Good luck.

galaxy flyer
01-25-2018, 07:40 AM
A friend awhile back joined a company whose department had a roller coaster history. Ive know two prior chief pilots who opened and closed it. I asked, do you know the history. His reply was priceless, I do, Im waiting for the buyout. Which he recently received.

GF

viperdriver180
01-25-2018, 11:39 AM
TS @ Owens is one of the nicest guys you can meet in this business. I hear he's approaching his 40th anniversary this year. Couldn't happen to a better guy.

TS is a great dude but works at Owens Corning not Owens Illinois...

galaxy flyer
01-25-2018, 07:59 PM
I stand corrected, its been awhile.

GF

ThreeGreens
01-31-2018, 11:28 AM
There is no way to know who will stay or who will go. I replaced a guy who had been at my previous operation 26 years and was laid off 12 months later due to downsizing. I thought it would have been a retirement position for me as well. You just never know....good luck.

Deckaway
03-12-2018, 06:52 PM
4 years has been my experience. Many have been around longer, many last much less but 4 years seems to be an average. I was laid off at the end of last year from a 91 operator who had the same Challenger for 17 years (sadly I was only there for 4 years) ...money got tight and the airplane went away. I am thinking airline now, there is little security in 91 flying...I love it and have been doing it nearly 20 years, time for more stability.:)

edit- I'm the new guy here, actually came for some airline info but saw the corporate forum and had to drop in.