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TacoTuesday
01-22-2018, 04:30 PM
Hi everyone, new here on APC. Interviews at purple and brown scheduled. Maybe a bit premature without knowing the outcomes yet but asking anyway. I have read the books about both companies, read older threads regarding the topics etc... I like many aspects of both companies, would be happy to live at any domicile but prefer Alaska, and don't mind the kind of flying both companies do. Been living overseas for a few years so not opposed to HKG or CGN either.

I know everyone has their own story and this choice is certainly a personal one but I would like to ask whoever is reading please share with me your opinions. In your opinions what are the pros and cons of each? If you had the option of the two right in front of you today what would you choose and why?

Thank you all for your input and help.


mrvmo
01-22-2018, 04:37 PM
Pick where you want to live and go to the company that has a base there.....aside from that it is a crapshoot.

longhauler
01-22-2018, 04:37 PM
I hope you have a tough choice a head of you. If you get both jobs, congratulations, if not the choice is made for you. Both are great companies and each have their benefits. I myself never applied to Purple and thankfully only had one choice to make, the one I wanted for many years.


Ray Kinsella
01-22-2018, 04:42 PM
Read up about FDX’s scope. When Fred is gone it could potentially be less of a good deal than it has been there.

I think the timing is right at UPS. Go to wherever you get a class first. Hard to go wrong with either. IPA is far superior than ALPA, but FDX is a much better employer than UPS. 777 is cool but the 747 is so iconic. Quicker upgrade at FDX but they have a B scale for it.

Milflyer19
01-22-2018, 06:26 PM
How long will it take to hold ont if hired this year? Thank you.

Ray Kinsella
01-22-2018, 06:51 PM
How long will it take to hold ont if hired this year? Thank you.

There is an 18 month equipment lock. If you get the 767 in SDF you could bid ONT on the next system bid if you didnít get it as a new hire. Next system bid will be in May timeframe.

Milflyer19
01-22-2018, 06:56 PM
Is ont pretty senior?

RickyBobby
01-22-2018, 07:39 PM
Is ont pretty senior?

New hires going to all equipment and all domiciles. It is possible to get it day 1.


RB

Ray Kinsella
01-22-2018, 08:52 PM
Is ont pretty senior?

No. Our junior Capt is in ANC but ONT junior Capt doh is about the same. Seems crashpad a are hard to come by and people donít like the schedules there. Others love it. Nice thing about the single pay scale is you can bid what you want, where you want, and not have to worry about chasing pay rates.

TacoTuesday
01-22-2018, 11:37 PM
Read up about FDX’s scope. When Fred is gone it could potentially be less of a good deal than it has been there.

I think the timing is right at UPS. Go to wherever you get a class first. Hard to go wrong with either. IPA is far superior than ALPA, but FDX is a much better employer than UPS. 777 is cool but the 747 is so iconic. Quicker upgrade at FDX but they have a B scale for it.
Are there other reasons you would prefer UPS over Fedex? Pension dependability? Schedule? Time to the left seat with retirements?

Thanks so much for your input! I really appreciate it!

BoilerUP
01-22-2018, 11:59 PM
If your preference is ANC, UPS is probably the better bet all things being equal (which they rarely are) because it will be a growing domicile with.

Even with my SDF-centric attitude (ha!) Iíd take the first available class date offered at either company.

Ray Kinsella
01-23-2018, 01:49 AM
Are there other reasons you would prefer UPS over Fedex? Pension dependability? Schedule? Time to the left seat with retirements?

Thanks so much for your input! I really appreciate it!

Louisville is better than Memphis by far, but if you don't plan on living in base it doesn't matter. I think FDX has better commuting and DH options.

Ray Kinsella
01-23-2018, 01:50 AM
If your preference is ANC, UPS is probably the better bet all things being equal (which they rarely are) because it will be a growing domicile with.

Even with my SDF-centric attitude (ha!) Iíd take the first available class date offered at either company.

Just sayin. You're not the only one.

G550Guy
01-23-2018, 02:32 AM
IPA is far superior than ALPA


Having been in both unions I cannot emphasize enough how true this statement is. I have never seen anything like the IPA, and the depths it goes to support its pilots. ALPA could only dream of having the unity our group does. I like it here at Brown, wouldnít change it for any other flying job out there. Best of luck.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180123/8a2161560cf89ef285c62913ca557aaa.jpg



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Cruisin235
01-23-2018, 04:48 AM
This wonít even be a question once you set foot on the facilities in Memphis and see how much FedEx invests into the airline. They also have the airline culture and pilots are much happier there. UPS is the opposite, seems they donít like to invest in the airline and the culture isnít pilot friendly. UPS also has non union pilots, which is a core reason the culture at UPS isnít up to par with the rest of the majors. Youíll be valued and treated better at FedEx.

FedEx hands down 100 out of 100 times.

3pointlanding
01-23-2018, 05:11 AM
With the shortage of pilots it may not ever happen but FedEx does not furlough, UPS is another story. FedEx is hiring 450 pilots this year and 350/yr for the foreseeable future. The last wo classes all went to the 757/767 but there are new hires getting the 777.

Tokyo
01-23-2018, 05:19 AM
You might consider posting the question in the Fedex forum or the main Cargo forum.

brownie
01-23-2018, 07:30 AM
Ya but mine is way bigger than yours.:);):)

Jetjok
01-23-2018, 03:03 PM
Ya but mine is way bigger than yours.:);):)

I don't think that that was what anyone here was trying to say. TT's original post asked for guys' opinions on the pros and cons of each, and which would you choose if you were lucky enough to have to make that choice.

That said, I'd agree with almost every post in this thread. Guy's were giving their heartfelt opinions. The problem, of course, is that very few guys have actually walked in the shoes of someone in the other airline, in this case, FedEx. Regardless, most of the posts seemed quite right to me. However, almost no one here addressed the toxic atmosphere that has resided at UPS, since its airline division was born, and continues to this day. I didn't see anyone mentioning a phrase you guys seem to use frequently, that of "Expectation - Zero." As well, although I believe that your IPA is a very good union, enjoying virtually total flight crew support, one needs to ask themselves why that is. The answer, obviously, is because your crew force has to fight, tooth and nail, for every little thing it gets. It's been that way since I worked there in 1989, and continues to this day. Conversely, and some of you guys make fun of it, Fred Smith and FedEx, has been generous to its crew dogs. Not so much anymore, but that was the way it was. From sleep facilities, lounges, hotels, deadhead tickets, training, cafeterias, etc, etc. Those perks turned out to be a double edged sword, in that it divided our crew force, where the senior guys held, and continue to hold Fred Smith in the highest regard, while the newer guys (probably) see him as just the CEO of a mega-large organization, whose sole intent is to lower the price of labor, while increasing the company bottom line. That's why the FedEx ALPA is so fractured and diverse, much like our nation is today.

I've been retired from FedEx for 5 years now, so I can't speak for the current situation, other than what we all read here on APC, but I do know that the work environment at FedEx is more relaxed and enjoyable than it is at UPS. If TT gets the chance to select which one he wants to spend the rest of his career at, he's a lucky person. Hopefully he'll make the correct choice, but as many other have said, as I am now, he won't really know until after he finally retires.

Best of luck to him, and to you all, and be safe out there. Dilly, Dilly.

JJ

TacoTuesday
01-23-2018, 03:54 PM
Thank you all for your thoughts and replies so far. It has given me a bit to think about and also given me some other topic to read about for my interview study.

Seem that most big corporations in my experience have their positives and negatives. It is all about the attitude you approach it with. Many of us I am sure have worked jobs for far less pay and much worse places than we are now but somehow we made the best of it. Just goes to show if we ignore the politics and focus on the flying and cold beers at the end of a long day, it isn't all so bad.

I never expected to find a perfect job, and it is evident that UPS and Fedex are far from perfect, however I am excited to see what happens. Like many of you said I think taking the first class offered is generally best practice. Leaving class for one or the other once it has started isn't my style.

Ray Kinsella
01-23-2018, 04:32 PM
Iíve been at 4 different domiciles and 5 types at UPS. Iíve been an FO and Capt. Iíve lived in base and commuted.

1. Anyone calling our lifestyle toxic is engaging in hyperbole. Our pilots are happy. UPS corporate culture is to reward you with pay and benefits. You wonít get your bags carried for you here though.

2. FedEx pilots love to bash UPS because it makes them feel better about themselves. Their union sucks and they have cost both pilot groups a lot of money. Our facilities are new at the hubs.

3. Management pilots are non union and that truly sucks. Iíve never had issues and they can only fly by displacing union pilots under nearly all non-peak scenarios.

Screw ALPA and screw any FDX guy who thinks he knows anything about current work culture. The furlough sucked but our guys came back to the best contract in the industry. Nobody took a mandatory pay cut at Ups like FedEx did. Both are great jobs, no doubt, but I would choose the IPA 100 out of 100. But if you want to go fly a 757 to the same cities in the same schedule for 70% of the pay go to FedEx.

PastV1by10
01-23-2018, 05:05 PM
This wonít even be a question once you set foot on the facilities in Memphis and see how much FedEx invests into the airline. They also have the airline culture and pilots are much happier there. UPS is the opposite, seems they donít like to invest in the airline and the culture isnít pilot friendly. UPS also has non union pilots, which is a core reason the culture at UPS isnít up to par with the rest of the majors. Youíll be valued and treated better at FedEx.

FedEx hands down 100 out of 100 times.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

TonyC
01-23-2018, 05:26 PM
FedEx pilots love to bash UPS because it makes them feel better about themselves.




What motivates you to bash FedEx?

Pot, Kettle





Their union sucks and they have cost both pilot groups a lot of money.

...

Screw ALPA and screw any FDX guy who thinks he knows anything about current work culture. The furlough sucked but our guys came back to the best contract in the industry. Nobody took a mandatory pay cut at Ups like FedEx did.




I wonder if your furloughees felt like they weren't taking a mandatory pay cut. As long as it didn't affect YOUR paycheck, right?

Do you blame ALPA for that, too?


You don't come across as happy as you say you are. There's a distinct hint of bitter in there.






.

CL300
01-23-2018, 06:10 PM
Tony,

You may want to read a little deeper into some of the threads Ray has contributed to. Heís far and away one of the most positive UPS posters on APC. Itís not that heís bashing Fedex, heís just 109% IPA and supports this group. Heís extremely helpful to wanna-bes and to those of us on property.

I was called to interview by Fedex when I was in my second week of Basic Indoc at UPS. In my situation, there was no appreciable benefit to leave Brown for Purple, so I sent KD a thanks but no thanks email. In hindsight, itís probably the smartest thing Iíve ever done for my career. Iíve enjoyed the hiring boom over at UPS for a few years now and my seniority is starting to benefit from it. Our crews at UPS are tremendous and itís a great IPA culture. Show up to work, do your job and go home. Leave work at work and youíll have an extremely satisfying career.

Like most here have said, if you have the choice, youíll be a very lucky person. I donít envy anyone for having to make that decision.

busdriver12
01-23-2018, 07:13 PM
I would say that claiming, "FedEx pilots love to bash UPS because it makes them feel better about themselves", is pilot bashing. And untrue. I think we feel a large amount of camaraderie with UPS pilots.

As far as, "Screw ALPA and screw any FDX guy who thinks he knows anything about current work culture. The furlough sucked but our guys came back to the best contract in the industry. Nobody took a mandatory pay cut at Ups like FedEx did." The "mandatory pay cut" that is being referenced must be the cut in hours that some pilots on certain aircraft had during the economic downturn so junior pilots would not be furloughed. I would have preferred that the cut in hours to be implemented across the board, but I would do it again in a heartbeat to avoid people being furloughed. I have been furloughed at a major before, and it sucks.

As far as the management pilots, well, IPA may be an amazing union, but allowing that to happen....particularly hiring management pilots while others were being furloughed, would be pretty hard to forgive. Pretty easy to say it's no big deal because they came back to a great contract, when you aren't the one who was furloughed.

TonyC
01-23-2018, 07:13 PM
You may want to read a little deeper into some of the threads Ray has contributed to. He’s far and away one of the most positive UPS posters on APC. It’s not that he’s bashing Fedex, he’s just 109% IPA and supports this group.




I don't know him from Adam and am only commenting on this post, not his posting history. I would suggest shielding your eyes from his halo and reading the post on its own merits. While there are a few positive points made, there is a strong anti-ALPA theme, and the unfortunate failure to acknowledge the suffering of the furloughees.

Your post, on the other hand, is very positive and, in my opinion, serves to answer the OP's question and provide him useful material to consider should he be so lucky to get to choose. I think we can all relate pros and cons of both companies without resorting to bashing each other.

I probably wouldn't have said anything had not the "They only bash us because ..." accusation been followed by bashing. That strikes me as hypocritical and makes my keyboard light up.

Sorry for interrupting the UPS thread.






.

CactusCrew
01-23-2018, 07:16 PM
If you get to make a choice, consider this ...

Do you want to work for a trucking company that doesn't like airplanes ?

Or do you want to work for an airline that bought trucking companies ?

That's not bashing either one, but it explains a lot about the company differences.

Ray Kinsella
01-23-2018, 07:32 PM
I don't know him from Adam and am only commenting on this post, not his posting history. I would suggest shielding your eyes from his halo and reading the post on its own merits. While there are a few positive points made, there is a strong anti-ALPA theme, and the unfortunate failure to acknowledge the suffering of the furloughees.

Your post, on the other hand, is very positive and, in my opinion, serves to answer the OP's question and provide him useful material to consider should he be so lucky to get to choose. I think we can all relate pros and cons of both companies without resorting to bashing each other.

I probably wouldn't have said anything had not the "They only bash us because ..." accusation been followed by bashing. That strikes me as hypocritical and makes my keyboard light up.

Sorry for interrupting the UPS thread.






.

FedEx ALPA does not have a high opinion of the IPA. Itís one thing to choose not to work together. Itís quite another to actively work against us.

The anti-UPS points made on this thread have little merit. I was simply highlighting why some FDX pilots would post such things.

Then thereís scope, otherwise known as the ticking time bomb at FDX.

Packrat
01-23-2018, 07:58 PM
If aircraft accident rates are a concern, go UPS.

Elusive Napkin
01-23-2018, 08:03 PM
If aircraft accident rates are a concern, go UPS.

What a horrible contribution to the thread.

G550Guy
01-24-2018, 04:30 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180124/d437b969dd46df5c0a1a3f48829cb9ad.jpg


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TonyC
01-24-2018, 04:34 AM
FedEx ALPA does not have a high opinion of the IPA. Itís one thing to choose not to work together. Itís quite another to actively work against us.

The anti-UPS points made on this thread have little merit. I was simply highlighting why some FDX pilots would post such things.

Then thereís scope, otherwise known as the ticking time bomb at FDX.




Not true. Not constructive.

Enjoy yourselves.






.

robxjt27
01-24-2018, 04:41 AM
Thank you all for your thoughts and replies so far. It has given me a bit to think about and also given me some other topic to read about for my interview study.

Seem that most big corporations in my experience have their positives and negatives. It is all about the attitude you approach it with. Many of us I am sure have worked jobs for far less pay and much worse places than we are now but somehow we made the best of it. Just goes to show if we ignore the politics and focus on the flying and cold beers at the end of a long day, it isn't all so bad.

I never expected to find a perfect job, and it is evident that UPS and Fedex are far from perfect, however I am excited to see what happens. Like many of you said I think taking the first class offered is generally best practice. Leaving class for one or the other once it has started isn't my style.

ďIt is all about the attitude you approach it withĒ. You nailed it right there. I had the choice of the two and chose UPS. I have many friends at FedEx and what I know is that it is far from perfect. I do not regret my decision and I have never experienced the toxic environment that people speak of at UPS. I come to work with a positive attitude and enjoy the flying we do. The only time itís ever been negative is when the guy sitting next to me has a negative mindset because in his mind itís still 1988-1993. (Those years were tough for this pilot group but we are far removed from the wages and work rules of that era.) You canít go wrong with either. Itís nice to have the choice but go with who offers you the first class date.

PastV1by10
01-24-2018, 06:01 AM
The furlough sucked but our guys came back to the best contract in the industry.

Where does this statement come from? You mean the 3% yearly inflation increase we secured but at the same time work the worst schedules in the industry? As a whole we are working a lot harder for the same money as we did a year ago, best contract???

busdriver12
01-24-2018, 06:17 AM
Where does this statement come from? You mean the 3% yearly inflation increase we secured but at the same time work the worst schedules in the industry? As a whole we are working a lot harder for the same money as we did a year ago, best contract???

That statement came from Ray Kinsella's post, that said: " Screw ALPA and screw any FDX guy who thinks he knows anything about current work culture. The furlough sucked but our guys came back to the best contract in the industry. Nobody took a mandatory pay cut at Ups like FedEx did."

I have no idea what your contract at UPS consists of, Ray is the one saying it's the best contract in the industry. Personally, I think Delta might have the best contract around.

Swedish Blender
01-24-2018, 06:53 AM
Read up about FDXís scope. When Fred is gone it could potentially be less of a good deal than it has been there.

Scope is about to be tested at UPS.

FTFFv2
01-24-2018, 06:57 AM
Not true. Not constructive.

Enjoy yourselves.

.

+1.

ALPA sux? Absolutely not. Think of all the contributions it has made over the years - eg. CASS...!!! but it does have its flaws. Just like the IPA. Independent and successful union shops do pose at least somewhat of a threat to ALPA so you canít blame them from protecting their turf a little.

To the OP: Iíve spent a lot of time over the past few years posting in detail on what the job is like at UPS. Please search for posts by FTFF (I couldnít recover my account access, thus my new username) to find them easily. Also, Boiler, Ray, Whalesurfer, 767, etc., are all quality posters and imo have been giving pretty unbiased perspectives. Hereís a little more:

Toxic culture? No. Whoever used this phrase initially choose his words poorly. While ďFrustrating cultureĒ would be more accurate, the real problem is not UPS, itís the Ďbehind the scenesí middle management people in Louisville. These are local KY folk - Think Karen Davis: that smug little f-you attitude: ĎIíve been here 20 years and worked my way up. You didnít pilot. Iím gunna be a pain in your overpaid pilot aess.í So yeah, expectation zero is a useful counter strategy. But that game stops when big life things happen to you and youíll then discover that UPS will take care of you as good as any of the legacy carriers. Then theyíll go right back to being dicks.

Example: they revise a leg of your trip. Thereís a 2 hr premium pay that goes with that. Of course the scheduler didnít log it. You call to remind them. Sorry, a supervisor has to do that. You call back. Supervisor does it. Itís shows up on your schedule details. Doesnít show up on your paycheck. ĎOh, it needed to be verified and they havenít gotten to it yet.í So you call 10 people to get connected with the person who does it. The do it - 5 days later. It doesnít show up on your next paycheck. You call payroll: Ďsorry, honest mistake.Ē It shows up on your next paycheck. Finally! 18 months later on a paycheck you notice you were deducted 2 hours of pay with no explanation. Call another ten people to discover that quality assurance thinks you were never entitled to that payment in the first place-schedulers were wrong. Luckily you took screen shots and detailed notes proving that you were correctly owed this $ and provide that to the company. They donít care. So you take it to the union. Miraculously UPS discovers that you were entitled to the payment after all. This is not exaggerating. You will have to spend some of your free time chasing down things like this from time to time. Not all the time but once in a while. Thinking of your $200K+ income as more of a salary vs hourly pay makes doing crap like this more palatable. FYI - most guys yr 2 and / or yr 3 payscales didnít reach $200K gross. Use our pay rates x 1000 as a good yearly gross income estimator. Then add 12% for bfund.

Scope: Iíd keep an eye on UPS using subcontractors. This is a pretty big issue and if I were looking into the two companies Iíd research the heck out of this one cause itís happening now and it could have big repercussions for staffing over the next few years.

Jumping ship from UPS. First year pay really puts a kink in this option - why waste your time working for peanuts?

Management pilots: becoming less of an issue. Many are starting to bail. New contract has us doing more instruction work. I wouldnít put too much weight on this issue.

My overall feelings after 2-3 years: Iíve had a good ride, lots of time off, able to give my wife and kids a fantastic lifestyle and upbringing, retirement funds are building rapidly, I somewhat enjoy the flying, the guys and gals are great group to work with (even if their political views are whacked :D), pay is good, health bennys spectacular, schedules themselves are ok and commutable. Yet, Iíve got a bit of bad taste in my mouth and donít entirely trust there will be long term stability in my career here. I do wonder if I made the right choice. Then I talk to my buds and FX, DAL, UAL. The grass is greener in both directions. Neither are good enough to consider jumping ship. FX and UPS are really similar but I think I would have been a little happier at FedEx. Maybe. Lots of cool, great folk at the IPA and when it comes down to it these are the people I really work with and who define my work experience. For that I wouldnít change a thing and would place UPS at the top of my list.

Hope this helps your decision. Best of luck to you.

TacoTuesday
01-24-2018, 11:48 PM
There have been a few comments on scope. Many of the Fedex pilots I have spoken with don't seem to think they have any issue with scope... Would anyone be willing to comment on their opinions of scope at Fedex vs UPS in greater detail?

FTFFv2
01-25-2018, 04:34 AM
My post was referring to the following: our contract allows for a limited amount of non-peak subcontracting for the purpose of unplanned volume surges and / or short term aircraft availability (say a couple of birds have to go offline for whatever reason). Thatís fair.

Right now shipping demand is up but supply of planes is low for us so UPS is subcontracting with Western Global. Again, fair enough and perfectly contractual. Problem is they signed Western Global for a year or something (we found out from WG folk who are now camped out at a hotel by the airport) where our contract limits them to a number of days. Thus they are knowingly and preemptively violating the contract. Further comment wouldnít be prudent but the concern from our perspective is that they will exploit subcontracting at the expense of growing the airline. It all stems from the lack of available airframes on the market.

Ray, or whoever posted the comment about fedexís scope, will have to elaborate but I can say that we werenít concerned about scope issues either. Until we were...

brownie
01-25-2018, 05:32 AM
We probably end up with Xtra 60$ per pay period just like tel Aviv. ....JMO

CactusCrew
01-25-2018, 05:50 AM
Probably closer to $62.55, because our SCOPE is just that good.

:D

whalesurfer
01-25-2018, 05:50 AM
Taco - wish you the best and hope youíll get to make a choice youíre happy with 10 or 20 years down the road. ..and thatís really what matters.

Iím a brown dog but have many friends at purple. In fact, one of them is in my crashpad. Both are great companies and both have pros and cons. You really canít go wrong with either. So interview, make a choice and never look back.

PS.
They might have sexier uniforms BUT we get to wear brown pants! ;)

PastV1by10
01-25-2018, 08:59 AM
Probably closer to $62.55, because our SCOPE is just that good.

:D

LOL can I get 63.00 every other big check? Don't worry our top men are on it! Opentime ban soon to follow.... world is ending.... get your affairs in order.... more of the same at workers paradise. "Best contact in the industry", hardly!

busdriver12
01-25-2018, 12:08 PM
There have been a few comments on scope. Many of the Fedex pilots I have spoken with don't seem to think they have any issue with scope... Would anyone be willing to comment on their opinions of scope at Fedex vs UPS in greater detail?

Scope is always important and something to keep your eye on. Perhaps Ray has the inside track on a scope issue at FedEx. But from just a line pilot's perspective, it's hard to get particularly concerned about scope when you have the largest widebody fleet in the world (owned, not leased), they have large numbers of widebody aircraft on order and they are hiring as fast as they can. I would think the same would go for UPS. But you can't lose track of it.

coryk
01-26-2018, 08:40 AM
You should post this on the FedEx section too. You realize you're getting all the UPS pilot input and little FedEx...

SaltyDog
01-26-2018, 01:39 PM
...In your opinions what are the pros and cons of each? If you had the option of the two right in front of you today what would you choose and why? .

Taco,
You could interview at both, get put in the pool at UPS, start at FedEx then get called to start UPS, then you have a real choice, or, could get hired quickly at UPS and then be in class and called by FedEx, then you have a real choice.

Everyone knows you need to go with the first offer.
Direct answer: I would now pick UPS, but if I ask 100 UPS IPA pilots the same question, 99 will say UPS, 1 will say FedEx. I surmise that if I asked 100 FedEx pilots which one, that 99 would say FedEx and 1 would say UPS. (I know hundreds of UPS pilots and probably a hundred FedEx pilots.
On a layover in CGN and a dozen other places I have drank an adult beverage with both groups, you can’t really break them out in most conversation excepting the identifier “UPS …” or “FedEx..”. We bellyache about the same things, enjoy flying with almost all of our counterparts. Similar flying, etc.

Had 3 primary choices. Had flown pax and then decided Brown, Purple and Southwest. No order for first- Brown or Purple, Southwest a close second, many friends at all three. In my time window, UPS was privately held and that was really appealing to me from a business success model. Owned by the managers and managed by the owners. They really moved the business to serve the customer. Fred and Herb simply were brilliant entrepreneurs that attracted loyal folks to build a big and profitable business. All three had airplanes that I would enjoy flying and most importantly knew how to make money flying airplanes with people I liked flying previously.

The management landscapes have changed by 2018. You may want to evaluate current near term and long term management for the amount of time you will be employed. More important if a younger person (late 20's to early forties), not as critical if mid late forties and older. Market presence and business inertia will help the older folks make it to retirement fairly secure. Younger folks may want to add future business and management change potential to the mix of the best fit for themselves.

Example, UPS went public, upper management has taken many incentives away from managers which many believe has harmed the business. Herb retired and Southwest internal culture has certainly shifted according to my WN friends but management keeps building market share and growth.

Fred is not going to last a younger persons career, what will his departure and retirement mean to the future of FedEx business approach to FedEx pilots? Fred likes FedEx airplanes flying all around the world, UPS only flies UPS jets where they must and cannot manage the business any other way. They will use trains, ships, and trucks to move customer’s goods. Our scope is the firewall. It’s a big part of our existence in the contract. Its being tested right now. UPS desire to not fly airplanes unless absolutely essential makes sense to the business but can harm a future from a pilots perspective. This caused UPS pilots to negotiate a substantial Scope provisions to provide some certainty in a UPS pilot career.

Will Fred’s successor desire to fly FedEx widebodies around the world if they can do it cheaper without them? Will let the FedEx pilots weigh in on their confidence of their Scope protections if FedEx decided to cutback only to the Scope protections.

Presently, two great companies that make a sustained long term profit flying airplanes and will provide well for you (and your family) certainly in short to mid term. Mid 40’s or later, solid career. Younger, a bit more business strategy assessment may be advisable.
Doing your research, you can observe how each company currently has a blend of similar and different approaches to various markets. Personal decision on who you think manages the current business and future business more successfully. Most certainly will impact your career, so in the macro, that is a business decision.

Others:
We both fly similar lifestyles in the macro, in the micro, we all learn to find the niche our seniority holds and mostly enjoy what we do with the pilots with whom we fly.

Pilot Contracts- Evolved very differently with different companies.
Can compare certain high value events like pay, medical, pension, and though different, both will provide well for a pilot. You can be on an endless debate loop comparing some apples and oranges. Depending on point of view, the proverbial "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" applies.
Pilot Unions:
Both provide for their base group. IPA pilots took substantial voluntary paycuts to preserve jobs for our pilots ultimately furloughed by UPS. After furlough, IPA pilots did not fly any extra flying or 150% “immediate” flying for just under four years until all pilots back on property (IPA did have some on/off months for negotiations purposes). What that meant was we had 61 and older Captains who with the rest of the pilot group did not fly extra days that could have paid them another $20,000 to $40,000 annually at peak career earnings potential. They retired without ever making that money back just like their fellow pilots still on property. I deem that impressive. Solidarity and principled folks put money where their mouth was and walked the walk. It did bring pilots back on property sooner. Likewise, the IPA pilots voted an assessment to pay the COBRA medical bills ( and extensions by negotiation with UPS to provide health care at IPA expense) for the duration of the furlough. A family bill was typically $19,000 annually paid by the IPA pilots voluntarily. So a generous group that covers for each other, not because we work for UPS, but because for our own reason, we see each other as true family of brothers and sisters. (We squabble too)

My friends at FedEx have usual concerns about their own affairs as do IPA folks. Internal affairs for each group.
Doubt many, if any, prospective pilots really care if IPA or ALPA, they are looking to get a job at UPS or FedEx. Then they look at the unions once aboard. Normal.
So, again, if you ask 100 UPS IPA pilots UPS or FedEx? 99 will say UPS, 1 will say FedEx. Surmise that if asked 100 FedEx pilots which one, that 99 would say FedEx and 1 would say UPS. Hopefully you get one, if lucky, will have to make a choice 
Good fortunes

McBoeingBus
01-26-2018, 02:15 PM
Well said Salty.

MBB

TonyC
01-26-2018, 02:46 PM
Everyone knows you need to go with the first offer.




No, everyone does not know that. It's a lazy simpleton saying, but there's no actual data to support it. It's entirely possible to improve your lot in life by leaving the first offer and going to the better offer.





Will Fredís successor desire to fly FedEx widebodies around the world if they can do it cheaper without them?




Do you realize how stupid that sounds? If it could be done cheaper without widebodies, don't you think Fred would do it today?






.

coryk
01-26-2018, 03:06 PM
No, everyone does not know that. It's a lazy simpleton saying, but there's no actual data to support it. It's entirely possible to improve your lot in life by leaving the first offer and going to the better offer.

Agreed. "Take the first offer" strategy isn't as cut and dry these days with the amount of hiring taking place allowing for people to really get to where they want to be no necessarily who gave them a chance first. Many, many folks have left airline A for airline B, etc etc. Most under a year at company A, while several have left > 1 year.

SaltyDog
01-26-2018, 03:19 PM
No, everyone does not know that. It's a lazy simpleton saying, but there's no actual data to support it. It's entirely possible to improve your lot in life by leaving the first offer and going to the better offer..

The OP was asking between FedEx and UPS only, my response was limited to these two companies in context of this thread.
I know a few UPS that went FedEx after starting UPS. Anecdotal, but if offered FedEx and said "no, Im waiting for UPS" that would be a head shaker. Assume most know you can move once you have one job.
I stand by my assertion, in this thread, take the first one from either UPS or Fedex as I stated , then the OP can hope to have a "real choice" I mentioned if offered the other.
I stand corrected on the "everyone" though.




Do you realize how stupid that sounds? If it could be done cheaper without widebodies, don't you think Fred would do it today?.
I was using a FedEx response earlier in the thread about "widebodies".
but really just FedEx jets.
FedEx has a build the market by building the infrastructure to build a market. Buy airplanes and watch the volumes grow. It was an airline. Jets were the primary market vehicle.
UPS is opposite.
UPS meets our Scope to the minimum and attempts to never fly UPS airplanes except where absolutely required. Makes sense. They are a logistics company. FedEx started as an airline logistics company., It is now a logistics company like UPS. If you are saying that FedEx is already only flying what is required by the Scope clause, then good news. If your ground networks grow like UPS teamdrivers and eliminate a lot of need for airlift to meet market delivery timelines, then will FedEx still use jets crewed by FedEx folks? I dont know, and appears you agree FedEx would already move to the cheaper option.
Cheers

DirtyPurple
01-26-2018, 04:01 PM
Taco,
You could interview at both, get put in the pool at UPS, start at FedEx then get called to start UPS, then you have a real choice, or, could get hired quickly at UPS and then be in class and called by FedEx, then you have a real choice.

Everyone knows you need to go with the first offer.
Direct answer: I would now pick UPS, but if I ask 100 UPS IPA pilots the same question, 99 will say UPS, 1 will say FedEx. I surmise that if I asked 100 FedEx pilots which one, that 99 would say FedEx and 1 would say UPS. (I know hundreds of UPS pilots and probably a hundred FedEx pilots.
On a layover in CGN and a dozen other places I have drank an adult beverage with both groups, you canít really break them out in most conversation excepting the identifier ďUPS ÖĒ or ďFedEx..Ē. We bellyache about the same things, enjoy flying with almost all of our counterparts. Similar flying, etc.

Had 3 primary choices. Had flown pax and then decided Brown, Purple and Southwest. No order for first- Brown or Purple, Southwest a close second, many friends at all three. In my time window, UPS was privately held and that was really appealing to me from a business success model. Owned by the managers and managed by the owners. They really moved the business to serve the customer. Fred and Herb simply were brilliant entrepreneurs that attracted loyal folks to build a big and profitable business. All three had airplanes that I would enjoy flying and most importantly knew how to make money flying airplanes with people I liked flying previously.

The management landscapes have changed by 2018. You may want to evaluate current near term and long term management for the amount of time you will be employed. More important if a younger person (late 20's to early forties), not as critical if mid late forties and older. Market presence and business inertia will help the older folks make it to retirement fairly secure. Younger folks may want to add future business and management change potential to the mix of the best fit for themselves.

Example, UPS went public, upper management has taken many incentives away from managers which many believe has harmed the business. Herb retired and Southwest internal culture has certainly shifted according to my WN friends but management keeps building market share and growth.

Fred is not going to last a younger persons career, what will his departure and retirement mean to the future of FedEx business approach to FedEx pilots? Fred likes FedEx airplanes flying all around the world, UPS only flies UPS jets where they must and cannot manage the business any other way. They will use trains, ships, and trucks to move customerís goods. Our scope is the firewall. Itís a big part of our existence in the contract. Its being tested right now. UPS desire to not fly airplanes unless absolutely essential makes sense to the business but can harm a future from a pilots perspective. This caused UPS pilots to negotiate a substantial Scope provisions to provide some certainty in a UPS pilot career.

Will Fredís successor desire to fly FedEx widebodies around the world if they can do it cheaper without them? Will let the FedEx pilots weigh in on their confidence of their Scope protections if FedEx decided to cutback only to the Scope protections.

Presently, two great companies that make a sustained long term profit flying airplanes and will provide well for you (and your family) certainly in short to mid term. Mid 40ís or later, solid career. Younger, a bit more business strategy assessment may be advisable.
Doing your research, you can observe how each company currently has a blend of similar and different approaches to various markets. Personal decision on who you think manages the current business and future business more successfully. Most certainly will impact your career, so in the macro, that is a business decision.

Others:
We both fly similar lifestyles in the macro, in the micro, we all learn to find the niche our seniority holds and mostly enjoy what we do with the pilots with whom we fly.

Pilot Contracts- Evolved very differently with different companies.
Can compare certain high value events like pay, medical, pension, and though different, both will provide well for a pilot. You can be on an endless debate loop comparing some apples and oranges. Depending on point of view, the proverbial "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" applies.
Pilot Unions:
Both provide for their base group. IPA pilots took substantial voluntary paycuts to preserve jobs for our pilots ultimately furloughed by UPS. After furlough, IPA pilots did not fly any extra flying or 150% ďimmediateĒ flying for just under four years until all pilots back on property (IPA did have some on/off months for negotiations purposes). What that meant was we had 61 and older Captains who with the rest of the pilot group did not fly extra days that could have paid them another $20,000 to $40,000 annually at peak career earnings potential. They retired without ever making that money back just like their fellow pilots still on property. I deem that impressive. Solidarity and principled folks put money where their mouth was and walked the walk. It did bring pilots back on property sooner. Likewise, the IPA pilots voted an assessment to pay the COBRA medical bills ( and extensions by negotiation with UPS to provide health care at IPA expense) for the duration of the furlough. A family bill was typically $19,000 annually paid by the IPA pilots voluntarily. So a generous group that covers for each other, not because we work for UPS, but because for our own reason, we see each other as true family of brothers and sisters. (We squabble too)

My friends at FedEx have usual concerns about their own affairs as do IPA folks. Internal affairs for each group.
Doubt many, if any, prospective pilots really care if IPA or ALPA, they are looking to get a job at UPS or FedEx. Then they look at the unions once aboard. Normal.
So, again, if you ask 100 UPS IPA pilots UPS or FedEx? 99 will say UPS, 1 will say FedEx. Surmise that if asked 100 FedEx pilots which one, that 99 would say FedEx and 1 would say UPS. Hopefully you get one, if lucky, will have to make a choice 
Good fortunes



Nice read. Thanks for your perspective dude.

TacoTuesday
01-26-2018, 05:28 PM
Thank you all for the great opinions. I do appreciate it. The reason I wrote this in the UPS forum is that I know so many Fedex pilots and fewer UPS pilots so I wanted to hear the brown side of perspective. You all have been extremely helpful!

iHateAMR
01-28-2018, 06:15 AM
SaltyDog said it best. We are all adults drinking beers together around the world. Definitely go cargo over passengers though.

StewBlu
02-02-2018, 07:43 AM
Has anyone been to one of these? Are they for real? Just reached their mins and deciding whether or not to go. Ive heard guys are getting the hogan after going.

http://www.fapa.aero/pilot_job_fair.asp?conf=LAS18

BrownDoubles
02-02-2018, 09:12 AM
Has anyone been to one of these? Are they for real? Just reached their mins and deciding whether or not to go. Ive heard guys are getting the hogan after going.

FAPA.aero | Pilot Job Fairs (http://www.fapa.aero/pilot_job_fair.asp?conf=LAS18)

Yes and true!!!

khsgt
02-03-2018, 03:29 PM
Has anyone been to one of these? Are they for real? Just reached their mins and deciding whether or not to go. Ive heard guys are getting the hogan after going.

FAPA.aero | Pilot Job Fairs (http://www.fapa.aero/pilot_job_fair.asp?conf=LAS18)

Yes and a FAPA job fair got me the hogan which resulted in a job.

G550Guy
02-03-2018, 08:23 PM
Yes and a FAPA job fair got me the hogan which resulted in a job.



Congrats... welcome aboard.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TacoTuesday
02-19-2018, 12:48 PM
The latest bid at Fedex has Jr 757 Captains at less than 2 years on property. Obviously this is due to the narrow body pay and not wanting to sit reserve in MEM. From what I understand wide body reserve capt is still around 7 or 8 years.

What do you all think will happen to upgrade times at UPS moving forward with these new orders plus retirements? Can we expected significantly shortened upgrades? Or can new joiners today expect the standard 10 years?

Please consult your crystal ball and let me know what you think.

Airbum
02-19-2018, 01:18 PM
2 years or less to Captain? My 8ball says outcome not likely

PastV1by10
02-19-2018, 01:26 PM
The latest bid at Fedex has Jr 757 Captains at less than 2 years on property. Obviously this is due to the narrow body pay and not wanting to sit reserve in MEM. From what I understand wide body reserve capt is still around 7 or 8 years.

What do you all think will happen to upgrade times at UPS moving forward with these new orders plus retirements? Can we expected significantly shortened upgrades? Or can new joiners today expect the standard 10 years?

Please consult your crystal ball and let me know what you think.

Considering that right now the most junior Capt is 8/05 hire, and that UPS didn't do a thing since Nov 07 and June 14 I would say it will take a bid of 300+ Capts for a 14 hire to see left seat. Reason for that being that you have 500+ people on property (between 05 and 07) that haven't been afforded the opportunity to see the left seat yet, so they will take first available. Guessing it will be sometime before any 14 or later hire will see Left seat at brown, unless your a manager. Sorry but you asked.

BoilerUP
02-19-2018, 01:31 PM
I bet 2014 hires can hold CA by the end of 2020.

CactusCrew
02-19-2018, 01:57 PM
I bet 2014 hires can hold CA by the end of 2020.

IF you predict the base and equipment, then I'll be impressed.

;):D

whalesurfer
02-19-2018, 02:15 PM
I bet 2014 hires can hold CA by the end of 2020.

Itís possible.
However, since more and more long term by-passing FOs are bidding left seat Iím betting on 2014 hires being able to hold first available left seat some 8 years later or 2022..
..and add about two years to that (10 years - 2024) if we open a 747 sdf domicile.

flyguy23
02-19-2018, 05:18 PM
Itís possible.
However, since more and more long term by-passing FOs are bidding left seat Iím betting on 2014 hires being able to hold first available left seat some 8 years later or 2022..
..and add about two years to that (10 years - 2024) if we open a 747 sdf domicile.


I'd be willing to bet an sdf 747 base would shorten upgrade times on various fleets. That would cause a lot of movement.

whalesurfer
02-19-2018, 05:44 PM
I'd be willing to bet an sdf 747 base would shorten upgrade times on various fleets. That would cause a lot of movement.

Sure BUT weíve got hundreds of senior FOs bypassing right now. Not sure what the actual number is but I believe it has to be at least 500+?
If thereís a 747 base in sdf I bet you some 75-90% of those senior FOs will bid captain.

Why? Well, weíve got 63 1/2 year olds bidding 74 in ANC right now just so they get to retire on the whale. A 74 Louisville base would increase their numbers exponentially..

Which is why I think an sdf base would stagnate upgrades somewhat. Iím guessing an extra ~2 years versus no SDF 74 base?
Iím frequently wrong of course so ymmv..

brownie
02-20-2018, 06:06 AM
I bet 2014 hires can hold CA by the end of 2020.

If we're still here the way mgmnt running this joint. 😞

Swedish Blender
02-20-2018, 07:39 AM
Sure BUT weíve got hundreds of senior FOs bypassing right now. Not sure what the actual number is but I believe it has to be at least 500+?
.

540 bypassing

whalesurfer
02-21-2018, 11:53 AM
540 bypassing

Thanks.. betting on only 150-200 bypassing once thereís a 74 sdf domicile..

SaltyDog
02-21-2018, 12:36 PM
Thanks.. betting on only 150-200 bypassing once thereís a 74 sdf domicile..

History of bypassing suggests it will remain about same percentage. These folks don't need a new domicile bid to move to the left. They intentionally pass every bid. Quality of life issue is usually primary reason to bypass. Many permanent FO's until 63 + till 64 to leave with Captain A Plan.
An eventual SDF 74 domicile won't change quality of life issues anymore than UPS will change scheduling patterns to be more "like the old days"
If anything, opine that scheduling quality provides and continues to be the incentive to bypass if quality of life is primary.
No doubt many seats will change hands if have a new domicile bid.

whalesurfer
02-21-2018, 01:00 PM
History of bypassing suggests it will remain about same percentage. These folks don't need a new domicile bid to move to the left. They intentionally pass every bid. Quality of life issue is usually primary reason to bypass. Many permanent FO's until 63 + till 64 to leave with Captain A Plan.
An eventual SDF 74 domicile won't change quality of life issues anymore than UPS will change scheduling patterns to be more "like the old days"
If anything, opine that scheduling quality provides and continues to be the incentive to bypass if quality of life is primary.
No doubt many seats will change hands if have a new domicile bid.

As always you provide a very good perspective. One day, when BT decides to retire (and I hope heíll stick around for many years to come) I hope youíll run for prez. Youíd certainly have my vote.

Time will tell. I think whale is a different animal and that bringing it to sdf would change peopleís bidding preferences, especially those whoíve been bypassing for many years.
Weíll see. Itís a good ďproblemĒ to worry about..

G550Guy
02-21-2018, 09:30 PM
Quality of life issue is usually primary reason to bypass. Many permanent FO's until 63 + till 64 to leave with Captain A Plan.


This is exactly my plan! In my case, I came here with 16 years to retire. By year 3 or 4 I will have surpassed my yearly earning potential from my previous employer of 12 years... as an UPS First Officer! The rest is just gravy.

The MD is the best plane in the fleet btw... no other plane does crappy Milwaukee layovers one week, and then takes you around the world the next one. Plus, MD11 crews are far superior to the rest of the herd. [emoji12]



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

busdriver12
02-22-2018, 05:55 AM
History of bypassing suggests it will remain about same percentage. These folks don't need a new domicile bid to move to the left. They intentionally pass every bid. Quality of life issue is usually primary reason to bypass. Many permanent FO's until 63 + till 64 to leave with Captain A Plan.


Waiting that long to upgrade sounds like a risky proposition. So many people medical out of this profession, it's eye opening. And you often have no warning of when it's going to happen. Your retirement payments for the rest of your life should not be based upon whether or not you held a captain's seat for one minute.:eek:

PastV1by10
02-22-2018, 06:33 AM
History of bypassing suggests it will remain about same percentage. These folks don't need a new domicile bid to move to the left. They intentionally pass every bid. Quality of life issue is usually primary reason to bypass. Many permanent FO's until 63 + till 64 to leave with Captain A Plan.
An eventual SDF 74 domicile won't change quality of life issues anymore than UPS will change scheduling patterns to be more "like the old days"
If anything, opine that scheduling quality provides and continues to be the incentive to bypass if quality of life is primary.
No doubt many seats will change hands if have a new domicile bid.

Doubt your prediction holds any water obi-1, guys that have been sitting idle for 11-12 years with no opportunity to upgrade will have a much higher take rate than historical averages you reference.

BrownDoubles
02-22-2018, 07:08 AM
Plus, MD11 crews are far superior to the rest of the herd. [emoji12]

Far superior at what? Definitely not the best looking... ;)

SaltyDog
02-22-2018, 11:12 AM
Doubt your prediction holds any water obi-1, guys that have been sitting idle for 11-12 years with no opportunity to upgrade will have a much higher take rate than historical averages you reference.

:)
Perhaps, but we have 15-16 year FO's who passed on first opportunities in last two years who also didn't have opportunity, and most recently, even the 11-12 year folks. Not a formula, but a rolling change where a few bypass a few times and then decide for personal reasons to take the upgrade. Example: Folks commuting want an upgrade schedule they can make work to continue a commute. Maybe a spike in those taking first available, but quality of life does drive the motivation. Good news, retirements only increasing over the next several years so more opportunities regardless of choice.

Far superior at what? Definitely not the best looking...

Far superior at dealing with 10-15 MELs per flight anymore...;)

Waiting that long to upgrade sounds like a risky proposition. So many people medical out of this profession, it's eye opening. And you often have no warning of when it's going to happen. Your retirement payments for the rest of your life should not be based upon whether or not you held a captain's seat for one minute.:eek:

Know some failed the upgrade and ran out of time to make upgrade... personal choices.

Swedish Blender
02-22-2018, 01:57 PM
:)
Perhaps, but we have 15-16 year FO's who passed on first opportunities in last two years who also didn't have opportunity, and most recently, even the 11-12 year folks.

Pretty sure upgrades didn't make it to 06 people and I know it didn't make it to 07 people. No bypasseres in that group yet.

PastV1by10
02-22-2018, 03:10 PM
Getting back to the title of the thread where to go in 2018. Just based on todays news with regards to scope violation and subcontracting, the choice is easy. Fred where does one sign up?

SaltyDog
02-22-2018, 10:49 PM
Pretty sure upgrades didn't make it to 06 people and I know it didn't make it to 07 people. No bypasseres in that group yet.

correct, replace 11-12 with 13-14 for a correction, still have bypassers in that group.

Harrisburg
03-03-2018, 07:44 PM
FedEx hands down is the better place to be.

SaltyDog
03-03-2018, 09:06 PM
FedEx hands down is the better place to be.
UPS hands up is the better place to be

So are ya a hands up or hands down kinda pilot? :D

Harrisburg
03-03-2018, 09:30 PM
UPS hands up is the better place to be

So are ya a hands up or hands down kinda pilot? :D

Why is it that an endorsement for FedEx always hit a nerve with you boys?

Airbum
03-04-2018, 05:56 AM
personally I think Salty was saying it is somewhat close and making a joke of it all.

My own theory to your question is that I think FedEx would be a smoother and easier pilot job then working for the trucking company which is UPS. We know we will have to struggle for things which are just a given at purple. This lends itself to wishing we where more valued pilots. Heck I just found out the actual union pilots over at FedEX have a say in the hiring process beyond just submitting recommendations. This never happens at UPS.

Its been a strong union here and a tight pilot group because it has to be as our common problems drives us together. I'm settled in and well don't need UPS to like me anymore, just pay me.

SaltyDog
03-04-2018, 11:54 AM
Why is it that an endorsement for FedEx always hit a nerve with you boys?

Airbum understood the post.
Go and read post #46 in this thread. I think two great companies. FedEx and UPS were my two top flying job choices with no first. Had many friends at both. Wanted to work at either of them and took the first one of the two that offered me the job. Have no doubt had I been offered an interview, interviewed and offered Purple first, would be purple today. Said take first of the two (Purple or Brown) to offer the job, then when/if the other offered, had a real choice.
Said same to the OP. ;)

PolarTiger
12-07-2019, 04:38 PM
Junior UPS CA just went to a Aug 2015 hire. That being said, I think the choice between UPS or FedEx just got more interesting.

C2078
12-07-2019, 04:59 PM
This is a marathon, not a sprint. In reality, either choice will be just fine, both great futures. If there is one differentiator, pick a domicile to live. ANY big 6 job living in base is a unique job.

BlueAvi8tor
12-16-2019, 08:18 AM
This is a marathon, not a sprint. In reality, either choice will be just fine, both great futures. If there is one differentiator, pick a domicile to live. ANY big 6 job living in base is a unique job.

I second this. Living in domicile is amazing.

BrowntownNewbie
12-18-2019, 02:38 PM
I had my choice between the two. Very glad I came to UPS. Good friends at FedEx, they are more than a little nervous with the latest earnings report.

cessnapilot
12-18-2019, 03:55 PM
I had my choice between the two. Very glad I came to UPS. Good friends at FedEx, they are more than a little nervous with the latest earnings report.

It is a long career and the up and down can be found at all carriers over the years. You wonít know until the end of your career how it went.

We had some junior guys go to FedEx in Ď07 and itís worked out well for them. Fingers crossed things keep going well for us, but be aware that we arenít immune from whatís hitting FedEx.

whalesurfer
12-18-2019, 04:51 PM
It is a long career and the up and down can be found at all carriers over the years. You wonít know until the end of your career how it went.

We had some junior guys go to FedEx in Ď07 and itís worked out well for them. Fingers crossed things keep going well for us, but be aware that we arenít immune from whatís hitting FedEx.

Agree, the day you retire is when you know if your career choices paid off.
ĎHope for the best but plan for the worstĎ.

FYI - we lost some newhires to purple as recently as early Spring of 2019.

DirtyPurple
12-18-2019, 05:26 PM
Both are great companies. Short term is a kick in the nuts for Purple. It may be a kick in the nuts when/if UPS extracts itself from AMZ. My crystal ball has a crack in it.

Iím Purple. I donít find myself ever rooting against Brown. I have friends there. I find myself rooting hard for my ACMI bros to get a better deal from their Amazonian/company slave masters. With the cutthroat culture at AMZ, I donít honestly know when that may happen.

As to the Chicken Little comments above for your buddies at Purple who are scared based on a quarterly report, I say more power to them. If they want to jump ship based on a speed bump, they will more than likely never get more than 5 years of seniority at any airline.

In the mid-2000s, Delta was a dirty dog that nobody wanted. Now it is the most profitable pax airline. Based on the sinusoidal wave of airline ďsuccessĒ, itís likely that in 5 years, it will be another company.

Itís a crazy ride. I hope all of us end up where we want to be. I just wish I knew where that was. ;)

cessnapilot
12-18-2019, 05:46 PM
Both are great companies. Short term is a kick in the nuts for Purple. It may be a kick in the nuts when/if UPS extracts itself from AMZ. My crystal ball has a crack in it.

Iím Purple. I donít find myself ever rooting against Brown. I have friends there. I find myself rooting hard for my ACMI bros to get a better deal from their Amazonian/company slave masters. With the cutthroat culture at AMZ, I donít honestly know when that may happen.

As to the Chicken Little comments above for your buddies at Purple who are scared based on a quarterly report, I say more power to them. If they want to jump ship based on a speed bump, they will more than likely never get more than 5 years of seniority at any airline.

In the mid-2000s, Delta was a dirty dog that nobody wanted. Now it is the most profitable pax airline. Based on the sinusoidal wave of airline ďsuccessĒ, itís likely that in 5 years, it will be another company.

Itís a crazy ride. I hope all of us end up where we want to be. I just wish I knew where that was. ;)

+1

I remember being at a legacy with a pension and a SWA pilot I was talking to was almost happy when we lost it! What!?!? Weíre all in the same boat and we should wish the best for all of our brothers and sisters! Enjoy the roller coaster.

whalesurfer
12-18-2019, 05:55 PM
...Iím Purple. I donít find myself ever rooting against Brown. I have friends there. I find myself rooting hard for my ACMI bros to get a better deal from their Amazonian/company slave masters. With the cutthroat culture at AMZ, I donít honestly know when that may happen.
...
I hope all of us end up where we want to be. I just wish I knew where that was. ;)

DirtyPurple - great post. Asking whether fdx or ups is better is like asking Ďwould you like the million dollars you just won in 50s or 100sí? Both are great companies.
For the record - Iíve never heard of brown guys rooting against purple.
..and we too wish our acmi brothers and sisters the best.

You guys are just a little ahead of us; eventually weíll separate our business from Amazon, like you just did, and eventually theyíll ban their third party sellers from shipping on us. Amazon is like China, everyone knows they lie and cheat and act like a monopoly ..but theyíre too big to ignore.