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View Full Version : Blew your wad for a 5$ raise?


1704LIFE
01-29-2018, 02:11 PM
Did you guys really just do that?


4V14T0R
01-29-2018, 02:14 PM
Did you guys really just do that?



You must be an FO with no foresight. CAs didnít get a $5 raise.


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1704LIFE
01-29-2018, 02:15 PM
Good thing you guys have fast upgrade times :D


4V14T0R
01-29-2018, 02:17 PM
Well from the looks of it your at Envoy, you make $8/hr less starting and with you 1-2 year upgrade your making 10-12/hr less as a CA. Talk when you raise your pay rates.


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1704LIFE
01-29-2018, 02:19 PM
I know, when ours come...it might take longer but HOPEFULLY it wonít be like yours.

1704LIFE
01-29-2018, 02:20 PM
We will see

4V14T0R
01-29-2018, 02:35 PM
I agree, hopefully itíll be better.


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stringandrudder
01-29-2018, 02:56 PM
year 2 fo here - what a fu$%#ng joke.

SpeedyVagabond
01-29-2018, 03:27 PM
Did you guys really just do that?

It will be significantly more for me than 5 dollars an hour. Once again, RP pilots have made gains. You’re welcome.

ORD170
01-29-2018, 07:37 PM
Whatís up with the PSA and Envoy pilots trying to talk down to Republic pilots? PSA certainly didnít do the regional industry any favors in the recent past. The whole 3.O issue will just bring Republic down to the level of every other Regional. This LOA puts Republic in 2nd place for payrates. I voted NO, and this thing is a big disappointment for 49 percent of the pilot group.

knewyork
01-29-2018, 08:38 PM
I voted no but an envoy guy talking about someone elseís pay raise? Lmao! Good luck getting a raise with your full classes. The next pay raise youíll see will be in 9 years when you flow.

pilotnicco
01-29-2018, 10:45 PM
We will see

Yeah... You have a VERY long way to go before the rest of your contract comes close. It's more than pay rates you know.

bigtime209
01-30-2018, 05:11 AM
I voted no but an envoy guy talking about someone elseís pay raise? Lmao! Good luck getting a raise with your full classes. The next pay raise youíll see will be in 9 years when you flow.

This is exactly right. Doesnít matter that RAH voted the thing in. Wouldnít matter if theyíd voted it down and gotten something better down the line. Envoy mgmt has already said no raises until hiring suffers. They couldnít care less what RAH and EDV are doing as long as theyíre filling classes. And over 100 guys started class at Envoy in January. So yeah...no raises anytime in the foreseeable future.

Hot Richard
01-30-2018, 05:33 AM
I hope I don't come across sanctimonious or that I'm trying to lecture everybody, but the unlimited bonus structure is an absolutely awful thing for any pilot on property. Now if classes dip, they just throw an extra few thousand out and that fixes it.

One of the biggest things the EDV LOA had was a cap on the bonuses, which although it allows up to $20k, many regionals already are close to that. I believe only 9E and QX have a cap.

It's a dangerous game that takes power away from the pilots. Right now all that matters is filling classes; that is what caused the 9E bonus to happen first of all, and then inconsistent levels forced the swap into rates.

Snowbound
01-30-2018, 05:52 AM
I hope I don't come across sanctimonious or that I'm trying to lecture everybody, but the unlimited bonus structure is an absolutely awful thing for any pilot on property. Now if classes dip, they just throw an extra few thousand out and that fixes it.

One of the biggest things the EDV LOA had was a cap on the bonuses, which although it allows up to $20k, many regionals already are close to that. I believe only 9E and QX have a cap.

It's a dangerous game that takes power away from the pilots. Right now all that matters is filling classes; that is what caused the 9E bonus to happen first of all, and then inconsistent levels forced the swap into rates.

Fourty nine percent of us tried to explain this to the other fifty-one percent and they couldn't rationalize it.

Now, it goes beyond even a few thousand dollars. They could very well fund someone's entire flight training and then have the new recruit sign a five-year-agreement to work it off. No more pilot shortage. No more leverage.

Brains....they have none.

Rahlifer
01-30-2018, 05:57 AM
This website is already showing banner ads for Mesa airlines having a 50k signing bonus.

msprj2
01-30-2018, 07:00 AM
So let me get this straight. You will pay for your own college,
your kids college and now voted to pay for a strangers tuition?
I assume when Bernie becomes Prez you will have another kid
to pay for too. I cant believe 49% of you dont get the Flu.

ORD170
01-30-2018, 07:36 AM
So let me get this straight. You will pay for your own college,

your kids college and now voted to pay for a strangers tuition?

I assume when Bernie becomes Prez you will have another kid

to pay for too. I cant believe 49% of you dont get the Flu.



I donít think they will get the ďfluĒ, but many of us are leaving to better places. I believe this will increase attrition to ULCCs and lateral to other regionals for FOs.


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ORD170
01-30-2018, 07:37 AM
I hope I don't come across sanctimonious or that I'm trying to lecture everybody, but the unlimited bonus structure is an absolutely awful thing for any pilot on property. Now if classes dip, they just throw an extra few thousand out and that fixes it.



One of the biggest things the EDV LOA had was a cap on the bonuses, which although it allows up to $20k, many regionals already are close to that. I believe only 9E and QX have a cap.



It's a dangerous game that takes power away from the pilots. Right now all that matters is filling classes; that is what caused the 9E bonus to happen first of all, and then inconsistent levels forced the swap into rates.



YES! The unlimited bonuses is the main reason for my NO vote. The 51% will regret their decision in a few years, but it will be too late.


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sflpilot
01-30-2018, 07:44 AM
So let me get this straight. You will pay for your own college,
your kids college and now voted to pay for a strangers tuition?
I assume when Bernie becomes Prez you will have another kid
to pay for too. I cant believe 49% of you dont get the Flu.

Most of the CA's simply don't care about this. All they are concerned with is that their hourly rate went up to I think it was said #2 in the regionals. They could not care less that new hires will likely be making more than FO's already there. The lifers have given up on mainline and are trying to string this thing along until retirement. They will probably just stay in IND for retirement. I mean they talk about it like it's Barbados.

ORD170
01-30-2018, 08:20 AM
Most of the CA's simply don't care about this. All they are concerned with is that their hourly rate went up to I think it was said #2 in the regionals. They could not care less that new hires will likely be making more than FO's already there. The lifers have given up on mainline and are trying to string this thing along until retirement. They will probably just stay in IND for retirement. I mean they talk about it like it's Barbados.



I would love to see a breakdown of the votes. Which seat and years of service. It will never happen, but I bet itís 15+ years, and the senior FOs. Didnít fly with one FO that was a yes vote, and no Iím not a militant no vote on the flight deck. The IBT might have screwed themselves, because a merger with a ALPA pilot group will result in a election. I doubt the 49% will vote to keep current leadership.


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Knobcrk1
01-30-2018, 08:39 AM
I agree it seems pretty low pay for 2018 but you make significantly more by 2020. I guess dangling the carrot worked.

1704LIFE
01-30-2018, 09:03 AM
I just like the pilot banter ;). I really do wish yíall the best ó. Iím a voter for all pilots, who cares which flag we fly under. Just wish we could all quit fighting for scraps, which we do because we are divided. BTW I was a RAH, and got in at Envoy when flow was 4 years.

Traded a fake bible-thumper for a felon alcoholic :)

I knew I needed to leave when CEO bonuses got tied to on-time departures and magically our departure times got beefed up.

BizJet
01-30-2018, 09:41 AM
Whatís up with the PSA and Envoy pilots trying to talk down to Republic pilots? PSA certainly didnít do the regional industry any favors in the recent past.

I wasn't at PSA when that happened.

The reason so many are annoyed is that the bar got set lower then EDV. Which means we will never see those rates. AAG has made it clear they will never be a leader in pay and benefits. All three WO are in talks to raise pay. But until our hiring suffers we won't see across the board rate increases. PSA might see CA pay increase if we sale our souls again. As we are having upgrade issues.

CBreezy
01-30-2018, 09:47 AM
I wasn't at PSA when that happened.

The reason so many are annoyed is that the bar got set lower then EDV. Which means we will never see those rates. AAG has made it clear they will never be a leader in pay and benefits. All three WO are in talks to raise pay. But until our hiring suffers we won't see across the board rate increases. PSA might see CA pay increase if we sale our souls again. As we are having upgrade issues.

You weren't there for the vote but by going there, you have endorsed it with your feet.

WesternSkies
01-30-2018, 10:32 AM
You weren't there for the vote but by going there, you have endorsed it with your feet.

Truth.

Iíll add PSAís unprecedented declaration that seniority means everythi....I mean NOTHING.
All in a time of unimaginable industry gains.
But hey the shoe fits.

3EngineTaxi
01-30-2018, 10:34 AM
You weren't there for the vote but by going there, you have endorsed it with your feet.
Very true.

mpet
01-30-2018, 10:46 AM
9E has the highest pay, basically instantaneous upgrades and a commuter clause that has positive space on your 2nd Delta/DCI option. You'd have to be retarded to not go there right now. Don't worry though republic, bb can just throw a couple more thousand at some kid and his tuition to get them through the door.

Speaking of endorsing with their feet. If anybody is looking to get on at their first regional... Run, don't walk, to endeavor and show the other regionals that money talks and bull**** bonuses walk

Ijustlikeflying
01-30-2018, 11:18 AM
Most of the CA's simply don't care about this. All they are concerned with is that their hourly rate went up to I think it was said #2 in the regionals. They could not care less that new hires will likely be making more than FO's already there. The lifers have given up on mainline and are trying to string this thing along until retirement. They will probably just stay in IND for retirement. I mean they talk about it like it's Barbados.

Hahahahah😂😂😂😂

stfoley23
01-30-2018, 01:39 PM
I am already hired by republic through the cadet program. Seeing this vote makes me take a step back and think, what incentive is there really for me to choose RAH over Endeavor? Other than the fact that I already have a job at RAH

Snowbound
01-30-2018, 01:43 PM
I am already hired by republic through the cadet program. Seeing this vote makes me take a step back and think, what incentive is there really for me to choose RAH over Endeavor? Other than the fact that I already have a job at RAH

You can work with me and we can make fun of all the people who voted YES to this. That is the only incentive I can think of.

chrisreedrules
01-30-2018, 02:31 PM
Truth.

Iíll add PSAís unprecedented declaration that seniority means everythi....I mean NOTHING.
All in a time of unimaginable industry gains.
But hey the shoe fits.

Donít you work for SkyWest? :rolleyes:

MD-11Loader
01-30-2018, 05:12 PM
Whatís up with the PSA and Envoy pilots trying to talk down to Republic pilots? PSA certainly didnít do the regional industry any favors in the recent past. The whole 3.O issue will just bring Republic down to the level of every other Regional. This LOA puts Republic in 2nd place for payrates. I voted NO, and this thing is a big disappointment for 49 percent of the pilot group.

Any PSA guy who talks about raises and bad contracts can go right back to CLT and fester in the filth that they created by undercutting their industry, stealing planes from another airline, and setting us all back.

As an Envoy guy, I appreciate any workgroup who goes out and negotiates themselves a new deal. Whether youíre happy with the outcome or not, I applaud your workgroup for at least getting something out there for you all to vote on. Our management has said that as long as we are filling classes then there is no reason to raise the pay. Itís a sad day when your hopes for a raise are in the hands of scabs who are taking your airplanes every month. PSA getting a raise is the only way Envoy will see one.

I thank the Republic group for helping move the industry forward.

chrisreedrules
02-01-2018, 06:46 AM
Any PSA guy who talks about raises and bad contracts can go right back to CLT and fester in the filth that they created by undercutting their industry, stealing planes from another airline, and setting us all back.

As an Envoy guy, I appreciate any workgroup who goes out and negotiates themselves a new deal. Whether youíre happy with the outcome or not, I applaud your workgroup for at least getting something out there for you all to vote on. Our management has said that as long as we are filling classes then there is no reason to raise the pay. Itís a sad day when your hopes for a raise are in the hands of scabs who are taking your airplanes every month. PSA getting a raise is the only way Envoy will see one.

I thank the Republic group for helping move the industry forward.

:rolleyes:

Otterbox
02-01-2018, 07:41 AM
Any PSA guy who talks about raises and bad contracts can go right back to CLT and fester in the filth that they created by undercutting their industry, stealing planes from another airline, and setting us all back.

As an Envoy guy, I appreciate any workgroup who goes out and negotiates themselves a new deal. Whether you’re happy with the outcome or not, I applaud your workgroup for at least getting something out there for you all to vote on. Our management has said that as long as we are filling classes then there is no reason to raise the pay. It’s a sad day when your hopes for a raise are in the hands of scabs who are taking your airplanes every month. PSA getting a raise is the only way Envoy will see one.

I thank the Republic group for helping move the industry forward.

I wouldn’t count on management coming to the table with much more than a $5/hr pay raise to the WO any time soon. The Republic YES vote disrupts the positive pattern bargaining since their endeavor like pay rates don’t kick in for another two years.

TheWeatherman
02-01-2018, 08:08 AM
I wouldnít count on management coming to the table with much more than a $5/hr pay raise to the WO any time soon. The Republic YES vote disrupts the positive pattern bargaining since their endeavor like pay rates donít kick in for another two years.
Either way, it wouldn't have come anything close to Endeavor or Republic. The WO treat flow as a large part of of the compensation package and feel they don't need wages to match those that do not have flow. Envoy has no problem filling classes right now with their bonus and keeping people from leaving with the flow, so I don't see them adjusting the pay anytime soon. Why would they?

CBreezy
02-01-2018, 10:54 AM
I wouldnít count on management coming to the table with much more than a $5/hr pay raise to the WO any time soon. The Republic YES vote disrupts the positive pattern bargaining since their endeavor like pay rates donít kick in for another two years.

The amount of raise is irrelevant in pattern bargaining. You don't ask for $5 because that's what another airline got. You shoot for what their rates are whether that's $5 or $50 higher.

Otterbox
02-01-2018, 11:32 AM
The amount of raise is irrelevant in pattern bargaining. You don't ask for $5 because that's what another airline got. You shoot for what their rates are whether that's $5 or $50 higher.

The amount of raise is a key lynchpin in pattern bargaining and in this case Republic pilot group took $7/hr raise at DOS... not really raising any bars and furthering gains in the industry.

Hardcharger
02-01-2018, 01:55 PM
The amount of raise is irrelevant in pattern bargaining. You don't ask for $5 because that's what another airline got. You shoot for what their rates are whether that's $5 or $50 higher.

On the other hand, the PSA pilot group has something that management wants, or at least a significant change in the way it's handled, and getting that should, and hopefully will cost them in the form of wages and compensation.

comair8904
02-04-2018, 01:58 AM
Geez, What's in the water over there? Your pilot group follows Bedford like the crazies in Waco followed Koresh lol. Back in 2001, we had just went back to work after striking for 89 days and that pilot group went into their 30 day cooling off period and wound up under cutting all the gains we made instead of demanding Comair +1%...ie, pattern bargaining. Just sayin...

BoilerUP
02-04-2018, 02:33 AM
Geez, What's in the water over there? Your pilot group follows Bedford like the crazies in Waco followed Koresh lol. Back in 2001, we had just went back to work after striking for 89 days and that pilot group went into their 30 day cooling off period and wound up under cutting all the gains we made instead of demanding Comair +1%...ie, pattern bargaining. Just sayin...

Chautauqua got their CBA in October 2003, not 2001.

After this little event called 9/11.

After Jon Ornstein created alter-ego Freedom Air, leading Mesa pilots to sign an industry-lagging contract to scope Freedom out.

After Bedford attempted the same thing creating alter-ego Republic, which required CHQ pilots to prioritize scope over payrates.

Geardownflaps30
02-04-2018, 04:51 AM
Geez, What's in the water over there? Your pilot group follows Bedford like the crazies in Waco followed Koresh lol. Back in 2001, we had just went back to work after striking for 89 days and that pilot group went into their 30 day cooling off period and wound up under cutting all the gains we made instead of demanding Comair +1%...ie, pattern bargaining. Just sayin...

Your memory is faulty. It was in 2003 (well after the Comair strike) that they got theirs and we at Comair all recognized and applauded their efforts at getting the single seniority list. We knew it came at the expense of other things but after the Freedom BS that Ornstein was pulling (and what was threatened by others) we were relieved that that particular snake was put back in the can. Of course we all assumed that within 3 yrs they would be back at the table working on the other parts. No one forecasted what happened next.

TheWeatherman
02-04-2018, 07:21 AM
Just sayin...
k......................