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View Full Version : 700 JB pilots picket today


RiddleEagle18
01-31-2018, 07:10 AM
What an amazing turnout today. Thatís over 20% of the pilot group for our first picket ever. Itís one of the highest turnouts for an ALPA picket by % ever! Well done. Keep up the good work. Our fair contract will be attained.


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rightside02
01-31-2018, 07:26 AM
Anyone got some pics !!!????? Wana see my boys standing proud .

GT4JB96
01-31-2018, 07:39 AM
from another site;

"Tim Canoll said the most they've ever had for a picket was 750 in the 1990's ...
on Wall Street .... with a pilot group of 12000. Percentage wise, this is the
best ever.

Ever! By a 1000 miles.

I think we can stop calling JetBlue pilots weak"


slimothy
01-31-2018, 08:23 AM
Great job, guys! Wish I could have been there with you.

RJCruzer007
01-31-2018, 10:31 AM
What a proud moment for JetBlue pilots!

aldonite7667
01-31-2018, 10:34 AM
What a proud moment for JetBlue pilots!


So proud. Iím very happy

sailingfun
01-31-2018, 10:35 AM
Really fantastic job!
Congrats!

CaptCoolHand
01-31-2018, 10:36 AM
It was cold! But hundreds upon hundreds came to send our message.

Great job

The701Express
01-31-2018, 11:05 AM
What an amazing turn out today! After attending both rallies, I had high hopes for today and we exceeded that.

Let this be a very clear statement to management that this pilot group is unified in its determination to attain a market rate contract.

Let anyone who doubted our solidarity be silenced by our display today.

As we came together to picket today, we now have to split up and return to our families or work. But the unity we further solidified will continue to bond us and hold us together and carry us through whatever lays before us.

To all of our brothers and sisters who came and stood next to us today in the cold, thank you.

To all of our brothers and sisters who couldn't make it due to work or legitimate reasons but have shown your solidarity on social media and while flying the line, thank you.

I've always been proud of our pilot group, but after today I will hold my head a little bit higher when I put my uniform on, knowing I represent us and the message we sent today.

Today was a good day.

Final Clear
01-31-2018, 11:19 AM
When is the strike vote?

Hey jetblue...FUPM.

FC

pilotpayne
01-31-2018, 12:31 PM
It was cold! But hundreds upon hundreds came to send our message.

Great job

It sure was cold.

I have never doubted this group would do it and have a large showing.
It was impressive

Speedbird2263
01-31-2018, 12:36 PM
It sure was cold.

I have never doubted this group would do it and have a large showing.
It was impressive

Not the balmy island heat I'm used to but it wasn't a valid excuse to miss the opportunity in my opinion. Message sent, now waiting on "Message recieved".

pilotpayne
01-31-2018, 12:47 PM
Not the balmy island heat I'm used to but it wasn't a valid excuse to miss the opportunity in my opinion. Message sent, now waiting on "Message recieved".

It will be interesting to see.

I think the largest turn out ever or one of the largest only jetblue pilots and literally in the freezing cold. I think that shows we are ready for this fight.

rightside02
01-31-2018, 01:03 PM
Pictures look great guys. Looks like a fantastic turn out.

PasserOGas
01-31-2018, 01:15 PM
Nice! I even saw Southerner there! The only guy with no lanyard! Thanks Southy!

pilotgolfer
01-31-2018, 01:18 PM
I thought it was bad when the guys put on their blue gloves and went in to cleanup the lobby of the B6 Headquarters. Some habits are hard to shake. :D

P-3Bubba
01-31-2018, 01:23 PM
Sitting in NYC overnight. Made the CH4 NBC news.

-Bubs

pilotpayne
01-31-2018, 01:37 PM
I thought it was bad when the guys put on their blue gloves and went in to cleanup the lobby of the B6 Headquarters. Some habits are hard to shake. :D

I get that your post is a joke but now is not the time. Over 700 of our own pilots were there. We are obviously ready for this fight. Save your jokes for later.

RiddleEagle18
01-31-2018, 01:39 PM
Sitting in NYC overnight. Made the CH4 NBC news.



-Bubs



Awesome! I Was hoping it would get picked up.


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say again
01-31-2018, 01:54 PM
Awesome showing today! Glad I could walk with all of you.

PasserOGas
01-31-2018, 01:58 PM
A little birdy told me management moved all their meetings to T5. Not sure if thats good or bad.

FUPM

RiddleEagle18
01-31-2018, 02:00 PM
A little birdy told me management moved all their meetings to T5. Not sure if thats good or bad.



FUPM



Yep. If they didnít see it, it never happened.


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PasserOGas
01-31-2018, 02:03 PM
Yep. If they didnít see it, it never happened.


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I really wanted them to have to stare down all that hate.

Combatcraig
01-31-2018, 02:36 PM
Yep. If they didnít see it, it never happened.


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Doesnít matter. They KNOW our resolve! We are more unified than ever!

Qotsaautopilot
01-31-2018, 02:51 PM
From a Spirit ALPA brother great job guys!!

reservetank
01-31-2018, 02:53 PM
So...will there be a strike or operational reduction by the pilot group if B6 doesn't make terms?

Tduster13
01-31-2018, 03:05 PM
If only planes had a Klaxon!!!!

PasserOGas
01-31-2018, 03:11 PM
If only planes had a Klaxon!!!!

"For alert force, for alert force, klaxon klaxon klaxon."

Bozo the pilot
01-31-2018, 05:12 PM
So...will there be a strike or operational reduction by the pilot group if B6 doesn't make terms?

Strike vote needed soon.

reservetank
01-31-2018, 06:18 PM
Strike vote needed soon.

Operational interruption will be the only real voice that they will hear. 700 pilots freezing their fingers off while the rest of the line is flying isn't doing anything. It's a nice gesture to one another but it's better to use the union resources on something with some teeth. No disrespect intended to the B6 group.

PilotFish
01-31-2018, 06:52 PM
Incredible participation today!! I'm ready to go again, and continue the fight for the contract we deserve!

It was great to stand with you all today! Solidarity & Unity!

Chicken Taco
01-31-2018, 07:03 PM
It was great to see everyone out there. Here's some pictures from the ALPA photographers:

https://flic.kr/s/aHskvvhDud

The 3 street-facing sides of the building were surrounded, plus another 100 pilots or so in a loop on the greenbelt in front of the plaza. The building perimeter is 975 feet using the Google measuring tool, and another 300 for the loop. That's almost a quarter mile of pilots standing shoulder to shoulder!

N311JB
01-31-2018, 07:13 PM
Operational interruption will be the only real voice that they will hear. 700 pilots freezing their fingers off while the rest of the line is flying isn't doing anything. It's a nice gesture to one another but it's better to use the union resources on something with some teeth. No disrespect intended to the B6 group.

Unfortunately I agree. Doesnít matter till it hits their pockets. But I/We can keep our head up a little higher after today

reservetank
01-31-2018, 07:36 PM
Unfortunately I agree. Doesnít matter till it hits their pockets. But I/We can keep our head up a little higher after today

Good luck!

United uhhh
02-01-2018, 03:14 AM
Excellent job..very proud!

rvr1800
02-01-2018, 03:42 AM
Operational interruption will be the only real voice that they will hear. 700 pilots freezing their fingers off while the rest of the line is flying isn't doing anything. It's a nice gesture to one another but it's better to use the union resources on something with some teeth. No disrespect intended to the B6 group.

Do you work here? Go troll somewhere else. This absolutely gets the attention of management. What if only 100 guys showed up? You think management would be in any hurry to get a CBA done? This showed jetBlue that weíre sick of how long this process has taken and itís time to give us a contract.

You must not be very familiar with how this works. Weíll strike if released by the NMB. Until then thereís nothing we can do to interrupt operations as a collective action. To suggest otherwise is illegal and irresponsible.

Yesterday showed management how strong the unity of this pilot group is. It sent a very clear message. We will do our job and only our job and fly SOP.

citxls
02-01-2018, 04:00 AM
Do you work here? Go troll somewhere else. This absolutely gets the attention of management. What if only 100 guys showed up? You think management would be in any hurry to get a CBA done? This showed jetBlue that weíre sick of how long this process has taken and itís time to give us a contract.

You must not be very familiar with how this works. Weíll strike if released by the NMB. Until then thereís nothing we can do to interrupt operations as a collective action. To suggest otherwise is illegal and irresponsible.

Yesterday showed management how strong the unity of this pilot group is. It sent a very clear message. We will do our job and only our job and fly SOP.

I was going to reply to him, but in reading the clear inexperience in his post I opted not to.

reservetank
02-01-2018, 04:29 AM
Do you work here? Go troll somewhere else. This absolutely gets the attention of management. What if only 100 guys showed up? You think management would be in any hurry to get a CBA done? This showed jetBlue that weíre sick of how long this process has taken and itís time to give us a contract.

You must not be very familiar with how this works. Weíll strike if released by the NMB. Until then thereís nothing we can do to interrupt operations as a collective action. To suggest otherwise is illegal and irresponsible.

Yesterday showed management how strong the unity of this pilot group is. It sent a very clear message. We will do our job and only our job and fly SOP.

Call me what you wish, but be honest...Do you believe that they were previously unaware of how sick the pilot group is of it? They are fully aware of how many people were and are willing to fill the seats without a proper contract. I have years of experience with this, and B6 crews are in a bad position. Picketing is good for Facebook feels, but at the end of the day, you need quicker motion to declare impasse and show teeth. I don't fault the pilot group for this, it's ALPA that is dragging everyone through this mucky charade.
I get it that everyone is sentimental and touchy about it, but try not to take offense at different viewpoints.

RiddleEagle18
02-01-2018, 04:39 AM
Call me what you wish, but be honest...Do you believe that they were previously unaware of how sick the pilot group is of it? They are fully aware of how many people were and are willing to fill the seats without a proper contract. I have years of experience with this, and B6 crews are in a bad position. Picketing is good for Facebook feels, but at the end of the day, you need quicker motion to declare impasse and show teeth. I don't fault the pilot group for this, it's ALPA that is dragging everyone through this mucky charade.

I get it that everyone is sentimental and touchy about it, but try not to take offense at different viewpoints.



Oh good another southerner.

Take this garbage back to cape air.


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Southerner
02-01-2018, 04:43 AM
I'm pretty impressed and proud of our pilot group. Getting that many people together was no small feat.


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rvr1800
02-01-2018, 04:45 AM
Call me what you wish, but be honest...Do you believe that they were previously unaware of how sick the pilot group is of it? They are fully aware of how many people were and are willing to fill the seats without a proper contract. I have years of experience with this, and B6 crews are in a bad position. Picketing is good for Facebook feels, but at the end of the day, you need quicker motion to declare impasse and show teeth. I don't fault the pilot group for this, it's ALPA that is dragging everyone through this mucky charade.
I get it that everyone is sentimental and touchy about it, but try not to take offense at different viewpoints.

Years of experience? Doubtful. If so youíd know that if it werenít for ALPA being on property weíd be in much worse shape under the former direct relationship. Your not offering a different viewpoint youíre offering incorrect information. Go away.

citxls
02-01-2018, 04:56 AM
Call me what you wish, but be honest...Do you believe that they were previously unaware of how sick the pilot group is of it? They are fully aware of how many people were and are willing to fill the seats without a proper contract. I have years of experience with this, and B6 crews are in a bad position. Picketing is good for Facebook feels, but at the end of the day, you need quicker motion to declare impasse and show teeth. I don't fault the pilot group for this, it's ALPA that is dragging everyone through this mucky charade.
I get it that everyone is sentimental and touchy about it, but try not to take offense at different viewpoints.

No one is taking offense, itís just a silly viewpoint. They will NOT be able to staff this place without a market rate contract. A majority of this group is just idling, waiting to see how this plays out all the while updating their apps.

ALPA isnít dragging us through a charade, itís how the process works. We canít just start performing illegal job actions without severe consequence.

CaptCoolHand
02-01-2018, 05:04 AM
Call me what you wish, but be honest...Do you believe that they were previously unaware of how sick the pilot group is of it? They are fully aware of how many people were and are willing to fill the seats without a proper contract. I have years of experience with this, and B6 crews are in a bad position. Picketing is good for Facebook feels, but at the end of the day, you need quicker motion to declare impasse and show teeth. I don't fault the pilot group for this, it's ALPA that is dragging everyone through this mucky charade.
I get it that everyone is sentimental and touchy about it, but try not to take offense at different viewpoints.

They were absolutely unaware... The numbers from the crystal palace thought that we'd have less than a hundred show.

Don't try and minimize what happened yesterday. It was a major win for this pilot group.

and again wrong that its "ALPA" dragging us anywhere.

WE are ALPA, the PILOTS of jetblue are JBALPA. It's not a faceless boogyman, its the guys in the front of the plane.

We are the Union. We are JBALPA.

AYLflyer
02-01-2018, 05:25 AM
Operational interruption will be the only real voice that they will hear. 700 pilots freezing their fingers off while the rest of the line is flying isn't doing anything. It's a nice gesture to one another but it's better to use the union resources on something with some teeth. No disrespect intended to the B6 group.

Get this BS out of here.

700+ pilots from a group of 3400 on a freezing cold day showed up unified to show management that we are not messing around. Absolutely monumental achievement.

You are delusional if you think that doesn't send a message to management that we are more united than ever and willing to do whatever it takes to get a contract. I'm incredibly proud of this pilot group, and wish so badly that I could have been there yesterday instead of flying all day.

Also, I haven't seen a response from a single nay-sayer that likes to pick on this group and call them 'weak' and how we're 'not united together' from other threads comment in this one. They must still be trying to take their foot out of their mouths.

BunkerF16
02-01-2018, 05:51 AM
I want to play devil's advocate here.

First of all, I want to say that yesterday's showing was the most impressive thing I've witnessed in my civilian aviation career. Never have I been so proud to be a JetBlue pilot. I have no doubt that event galvanized our pilot group and reset the optimism in many. Myself included.

Having said that, I wonder exactly how much it moved the needle with the company. Were they shocked at our showing? Probably. Did it change their perception as to how unified we are? No doubt. But in the grand scheme of things, so what.

I used to believe in the JetBlue Santa Clause. I always told people that we don't work for an airline, we work for a PR firm that flies aircraft. I always thought that the one thing JetBlue coveted more than anything else was their reputation and brand and that they didn't want anyone to pull back the curtain and reveal to the public exactly what goes on in private.

I thought they'd be mad at the mobile advertisements. I thought they'd hate seeing all the newspaper ads in the local JetBlue base cities. I believed, with all the efforts they tried to keep those JD Powers awards, and accolades from outside agencies, that anything the pilots did to take the luster off the brand, they'd try to avoid.

I'm not so sure anymore.

I think they've shown their true colors and that is that their brand doesn't mean **** to them in reality. It's all about the bottom line. JB management might as well be Spirit or Frontier management. Our public show of force and media campaign really doesn't mean a lot to them. Are they happy about it? Probably not. But will it motivate them to come to an agreement quicker? Based on the NC latest emails and discussion in the P2P meetings, I'm not so sure it will.

The metric that's important to them is can they still operate an airline. How's the attrition? (not nearly enough to affect them). Are guys still picking up RSAs, extending, not calling in sick or fatigued when they should? Are the CAs dropping the parking brake early to get that on time departure? Are guys calling OPS to help out with issues in the back or are they telling the FAs to use the jetbridge phone.

Unity is great. But until it starts hurting the operations, I don't think JetBlue gives a F. The RLA is severely stacked against the pilot group. The company knows this. As long as they continue to show "progress", there will be no impasse declared. I admit I thought this could be over earlier rather than later. Not so convinced of that any longer. I loved the overwhelming participation yesterday, but until we translate that into affecting JB's bottom line, this will drag on. And make no mistake, when I say affect JB's bottom line, I don't mean illegal job actions. There are many things pilots can do well within the legal guidelines that will get JB's attention. As our union leadership continues to say. Fly SOP. Do your job. Nothing more, nothing less.

nuball5
02-01-2018, 06:16 AM
I want to play devil's advocate here.

First of all, I want to say that yesterday's showing was the most impressive thing I've witnessed in my civilian aviation career. Never have I been so proud to be a JetBlue pilot. I have no doubt that event galvanized our pilot group and reset the optimism in many. Myself included.

Having said that, I wonder exactly how much it moved the needle with the company. Were they shocked at our showing? Probably. Did it change their perception as to how unified we are? No doubt. But in the grand scheme of things, so what.

I used to believe in the JetBlue Santa Clause. I always told people that we don't work for an airline, we work for a PR firm that flies aircraft. I always thought that the one thing JetBlue coveted more than anything else was their reputation and brand and that they didn't want anyone to pull back the curtain and reveal to the public exactly what goes on in private.

I thought they'd be mad at the mobile advertisements. I thought they'd hate seeing all the newspaper ads in the local JetBlue base cities. I believed, with all the efforts they tried to keep those JD Powers awards, and accolades from outside agencies, that anything the pilots did to take the luster off the brand, they'd try to avoid.

I'm not so sure anymore.

I think they've shown their true colors and that is that their brand doesn't mean **** to them in reality. It's all about the bottom line. JB management might as well be Spirit or Frontier management. Our public show of force and media campaign really doesn't mean a lot to them. Are they happy about it? Probably not. But will it motivate them to come to an agreement quicker? Based on the NC latest emails and discussion in the P2P meetings, I'm not so sure it will.

The metric that's important to them is can they still operate an airline. How's the attrition? (not nearly enough to affect them). Are guys still picking up RSAs, extending, not calling in sick or fatigued when they should? Are the CAs dropping the parking brake early to get that on time departure? Are guys calling OPS to help out with issues in the back or are they telling the FAs to use the jetbridge phone.

Unity is great. But until it starts hurting the operations, I don't think JetBlue gives a F. The RLA is severely stacked against the pilot group. The company knows this. As long as they continue to show "progress", there will be no impasse declared. I admit I thought this could be over earlier rather than later. Not so convinced of that any longer. I loved the overwhelming participation yesterday, but until we translate that into affecting JB's bottom line, this will drag on. And make no mistake, when I say affect JB's bottom line, I don't mean illegal job actions. There are many things pilots can do well within the legal guidelines that will get JB's attention. As our union leadership continues to say. Fly SOP. Do your job. Nothing more, nothing less.

Unfortunately flying SOP and "doing your job" can be seen as an inconvenience to some. For example, it's much easier to update your manuals on your iPad before a trip at home then walk to the crewroom and update them at showtime. Until we embrace those little inconveniences as a whole and just follow SOP, nothing will change.

rvr1800
02-01-2018, 06:21 AM
BunkerF16,

The company fought the luggage grip and lost. They got the MCO airport authority to stop the mobile billboard. Theyíll do whatever they can legally do to stop our message. They canít stop picketing or they would. They canít fight paid advertisments in newspapers or they would. Only time will tell if yesterday made a difference. I think it will.

PasserOGas
02-01-2018, 06:34 AM
BunkerF16,

The company fought the luggage grip and lost. They got the MCO airport authority to stop the mobile billboard. Theyíll do whatever they can legally do to stop our message. They canít stop picketing or they would. They canít fight paid advertisments in newspapers or they would. Only time will tell if yesterday made a difference. I think it will.

Guys, what we need is a strike vote, and then we need to pursue getting released. I LOVE that so many guys showed up, and we have momentum lets use it to turn the screws. Every avenue. I agree this place didn't like what they saw, but until we can shut this place down I don't think much will change.

queue
02-01-2018, 06:37 AM
ď It's all about the bottom line. ď


Unity and stuff is great, but you guys need to get to a strike ASAFP.

The RLA is stacked against you. Itís meant to pacify the opposition. Going to strike is the only real power you have. Like I said before, donít vote yes for a crappy contract. Continue to have picketing events and everything else but none of that matters if the majority of low standards pilots end up voting yes to a crappy contract because they have this false idea that itís the best theyíre going to get.

You guys need to learn to only look at results. Progress is not a result. Itís been three years without actual results. That has cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars itís not millions for some people. And, thatís just the money. Whenever somebody tells you the progress has been made, you should just point the middle finger at them. The only time you should be satisfied is when you were signing the contract you want. Until then you should be angry as hell.

JetBlue will try to use false narratives,concepts, and choices in order to psychologically get you to agree to a lower standard. For example, there are many pilots that came from the absolute worst flying operations. They are the most dangerous for your cause. They will simply accept any contract that is better because 1) theyíre not that smart, and 2) since theyíre not that smart, they will simply take something that is better because itís all they know from their experience. These low standards pilots will only look at the statistical insignificance of their own experience while avoiding proper analysis that includes their place amongst all major American carriers which includes the legacies. Meanwhile they will bite on this false ideas that JetBlue will go out of business if they had to pay rates somewhere within the top three legacies. Incidentally, I really hate this excuse that I have heard from pilots and management about how this is going to be your first contract and that itís better to get something rather than nothing. If you vote for a sub standard contract, you might as well have nothing. Donít be misled by JetBlue or ALPA. There is no reason why your first contract canít be perfect. You can always strike against JB and in the case of ALPA, you can always vote in new people. Do not settle!

https://wallpapercave.com/wp/lGSGqdO.jpg

queue
02-01-2018, 06:40 AM
BunkerF16,

The company fought the luggage grip and lost. They got the MCO airport authority to stop the mobile billboard. Theyíll do whatever they can legally do to stop our message. They canít stop picketing or they would. They canít fight paid advertisments in newspapers or they would. Only time will tell if yesterday made a difference. I think it will.

It will make a difference but itís paper cuts compared to going to strike and voting no for a sub standard contract.

rvr1800
02-01-2018, 06:52 AM
It will make a difference but itís paper cuts compared to going to strike and voting no for a sub standard contract.

The NC and MEC will not be sending us a sub-standard contract.

A strike vote is purely symbolic and means nothing. We will strike when the NMB releases us. That was proven yesterday.

CaptCoolHand
02-01-2018, 06:58 AM
It will make a difference but itís paper cuts compared to going to strike and voting no for a sub standard contract.

It's a paper cut game. We will do what is necessary when it's necessary.

It's been a long marathon. It's not over.

WhistlePig
02-01-2018, 07:06 AM
It will make a difference but itís paper cuts compared to going to strike and voting no for a sub standard contract.

A no vote would be disastrous. Toss the past three years and start over with a clean sheet of paper. A no vote is a win for the company. Our negotiating committee will not put out a deal that will not pass. Folks, get that no vote notion out of your head.

Bluedriver
02-01-2018, 07:10 AM
Um, no, if it's feces you vote NO. They do not throw the TA in the garbage and start from scratch. They do new polling and address the issues needed.

It does not always work out poorly, Delta recently did better in a reasonable timeframe after voting no.

But, I am counting on our NC to not bring us feces in the first place.

RiddleEagle18
02-01-2018, 07:21 AM
Sooooo many new screen names that never comment now suddenly showing up to manage expectations.

Wonder why??


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Otterbox
02-01-2018, 07:29 AM
A no vote would be disastrous. Toss the past three years and start over with a clean sheet of paper. A no vote is a win for the company. Our negotiating committee will not put out a deal that will not pass. Folks, get that no vote notion out of your head.

The results sure didnít seem disastrous for the SWA or DAL pilot group last time they exercised the power of ďNoĒ.

Now that the JB pilot group has started to take getting a contract seriously, management will feel the public pressure and brand image problems associated with being in a prolonged labor dispute with the pilot group and will get to the point where they realize itís in their best interest to get a deal done and offer something that is just worthy enough of a vote. If that gets kicked back with a NO vote theyíll dig deeper to get the deal done.

If the TA isnít good, then it should be voted down and be sent back for fixing the sections that need to be made better. It wonít be a clean sheet start over by any means.

The unfortunate part is with the JetBlue pilot group being as docile as it has been, thereís a fair chance itíll be a YES vote right off the batt because 51% of the folks wonít have a backbone to say NO to lackluster contract (the large % of folks who didnít want the union in the first place and all those senior pilots who feel they get enough already and/or donít want to **** off management will be YES voters to anything that gets put in front of them will be a significant portion of that 51% by default). Telling folks that a NO vote would be disasterous before even seeing a AIP or TA is an example of this.

Final Clear
02-01-2018, 07:41 AM
Operational interruption will be the only real voice that they will hear. 700 pilots freezing their fingers off while the rest of the line is flying isn't doing anything. It's a nice gesture to one another but it's better to use the union resources on something with some teeth. No disrespect intended to the B6 group.

What matters is what the owners (shareholders) think. When they see 20% of the pilot group show up on a freezing day in JANUARY, someone is making a call to Joel to ask him WTF. The owners of this hospitality group care about "brand image" because it affects their bottom line and their ability to attract a buyout or merger. Next step...STRIKE VOTE!!!

Hey jetblue...FUPM

FC

AYLflyer
02-01-2018, 07:49 AM
There is no reason why your first contract canít be perfect. You can always strike against JB and in the case of ALPA, you can always vote in new people. Do not settle!



Our contract according to everyone is being written from the ground up, so you're absolutely correct. There is no reason why our first can't be perfect.

A no vote would be disastrous. Toss the past three years and start over with a clean sheet of paper. A no vote is a win for the company. Our negotiating committee will not put out a deal that will not pass. Folks, get that no vote notion out of your head.

This makes zero sense. A no vote would not result in a throw-away of the last 3 years. At my previous shop we went through a contract and when the first offer came out, many pilots voted Yes simply because they were tired of arguing, or they were worried it was the best they could get. I voted a big fat NO because the fine print was garbage, even though it meant my own pay would have gone up significantly. Our next offer was better (not perfect) but it finally passed.

Vote YES because the contract is actually good for all of us, not because it's "finally over".

WhistlePig
02-01-2018, 07:57 AM
Um, no, if it's feces you vote NO. They do not throw the TA in the garbage and start from scratch. They do new polling and address the issues needed.

It does not always work out poorly, Delta recently did better in a reasonable timeframe after voting no.

But, I am counting on our NC to not bring us feces in the first place.

The entire process restarts, that is fact. The point is not to bring a TA to a vote if it will not pass. Don't be so obtuse.

WhistlePig
02-01-2018, 07:59 AM
Our contract according to everyone is being written from the ground up, so you're absolutely correct. There is no reason why our first can't be perfect.



This makes zero sense. A no vote would not result in a throw-away of the last 3 years. At my previous shop we went through a contract and when the first offer came out, many pilots voted Yes simply because they were tired of arguing, or they were worried it was the best they could get. I voted a big fat NO because the fine print was garbage, even though it meant my own pay would have gone up significantly. Our next offer was better (not perfect) but it finally passed.

Vote YES because the contract is actually good for all of us, not because it's "finally over".

It makes 100% sense if you know how the law works, and you missed the point entirely.

BeatNavy
02-01-2018, 08:13 AM
The entire process restarts, that is fact. The point is not to bring a TA to a vote if it will not pass. Don't be so obtuse.

First of all, are you a jetblue pilot? If so, ask your NC/P2P guys so you can get informed. But I dont think you’re a jetblue pilot based on your post history. If you are, you’re very new. Second of all, several contracts have been voted down, only to have a better TA2 shortly thereafter. I respectfully invite you to ST.FU and stop posting misinformation on our board.

Southerner
02-01-2018, 08:13 AM
The entire process restarts, that is fact. The point is not to bring a TA to a vote if it will not pass. Don't be so obtuse.


This is absolutely not true. ALPA would (hopefully) conduct surveys to determine what sections need reworking to pass. Most of the sections would remain fine, if both sides agree.

The goal would be that the NC and MEC don't send an inadequate TA for vote in the first place. But, that doesn't mean that you should vote yes automatically. Read the TA, and vote accordingly. Don't be automatically yes or no. Both of those are equally stupid.



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Final Clear
02-01-2018, 08:20 AM
Folks, get that no vote notion out of your head.

...and why would you make this assertion after a VERY successful picket and prior to even having an AIP?

Hhhhmmmm...

Hey jetblue...FUPM,
FC

pilotpayne
02-01-2018, 08:35 AM
...and why would you make this assertion after a VERY successful picket and prior to even having an AIP?

Hhhhmmmm...

Hey jetblue...FUPM,
FC

Maybe jetblue has their Twitter group (black ops) posting on APC:)

Bluedriver
02-01-2018, 08:44 AM
The entire process restarts, that is fact. The point is not to bring a TA to a vote if it will not pass. Don't be so obtuse.

That's not how it worked at Delta or Southwest recently.

Bluedriver
02-01-2018, 08:50 AM
Maybe jetblue has their Twitter group (black ops) posting on APC:)

To quote a good friend, "That's a bingo".

Speedbird2263
02-01-2018, 08:56 AM
Anyone know where I can get a spare JB ALPA lanyard in JFK? In the "Those that have & those that will" group I'm afraid the latter is true today as it pertains to leaving ID at home.(commuter)

Beechnut
02-01-2018, 08:59 AM
Anyone know where I can get a spare JB ALPA lanyard in JFK?

I can get it to you Saturday night. PM me if you like.

BeatNavy
02-01-2018, 09:05 AM
Anyone know where I can get a spare JB ALPA lanyard in JFK? In the "Those that have & those that will" group I'm afraid the latter is true today as it pertains to leaving ID at home.(commuter)

Find a P2P guy. Thereís a bag full of them in the bag room.

HighFlight
02-01-2018, 09:18 AM
(Whisper mode on... AWAC ...Whisper mode off)

First of all, are you a jetblue pilot? If so, ask your NC/P2P guys so you can get informed. But I dont think youíre a jetblue pilot based on your post history. If you are, youíre very new. Second of all, several contracts have been voted down, only to have a better TA2 shortly thereafter. I respectfully invite you to ST.FU and stop posting misinformation on our board.

Final Clear
02-01-2018, 09:37 AM
The NC and MEC will not be sending us a sub-standard contract.

A strike vote is purely symbolic and means nothing. We will strike when the NMB releases us. That was proven yesterday.

While it may appear as nothing more than symbolic, it clearly demonstrates our resolve in the ongoing labor dispute and sends a VERY clear message to the airline's owners on where we stand as a group. It is a very clear signal to everyone involved on what the next step in the process will be pending a failure at the negotiating table. A strike is not only a brand destroying event, it also creates a SEVERE profit draining event.

I completely trust the motivation and direction of my MEC/NC and strongly believe that this will occur at the most advantageous time for our group.

Hey jetblue...FUPM,
FC

Speedbird2263
02-01-2018, 10:14 AM
I can get it to you Saturday night. PM me if you like.

Thanks brother I appreciate it but I'm gonna go the P2P route that's been mentioned.

Speedbird2263
02-01-2018, 10:15 AM
Find a P2P guy. Thereís a bag full of them in the bag room.

Wilco, much appreciated.

rvr1800
02-01-2018, 10:22 AM
While it may appear as nothing more than symbolic, it clearly demonstrates our resolve in the ongoing labor dispute and sends a VERY clear message to the airline's owners on where we stand as a group. It is a very clear signal to everyone involved on what the next step in the process will be pending a failure at the negotiating table. A strike is not only a brand destroying event, it also creates a SEVERE profit draining event.

I completely trust the motivation and direction of my MEC/NC and strongly believe that this will occur at the most advantageous time for our group.

Hey jetblue...FUPM,
FC

I completely agree. Iím just making sure people understand the process. Many do not. Terms like ďmove to strikeĒ or ďrequest to be releasedĒ have been thrown around and neither are a part of section 6 negotiations.

Final Clear
02-01-2018, 10:23 AM
I completely agree. Iím just making sure people understand the process. Many do not. Terms like ďmove to strikeĒ or ďrequest to be releasedĒ have been thrown around and neither are a part of section 6 negotiations.

Two thumbs up brother...

Hey jetblue...FUPM,
FC

queue
02-01-2018, 10:52 AM
The NC and MEC will not be sending us a sub-standard contract.

A strike vote is purely symbolic and means nothing. We will strike when the NMB releases us. That was proven yesterday.

Why has it taken three years?

Is it a regulatory constraint that meetings cannot be held daily until done? Couldnít the mediator be utilized to keep BJ at the table on a daily basis, or was this ALPAís failure? Sorry but 3 years is unacceptable in any business, evidently except the airlines.

reservetank
02-01-2018, 11:45 AM
Oh good another southerner.

Take this garbage back to cape air.


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Cape Air? What?

reservetank
02-01-2018, 11:48 AM
They were absolutely unaware... The numbers from the crystal palace thought that we'd have less than a hundred show.

Don't try and minimize what happened yesterday. It was a major win for this pilot group.

and again wrong that its "ALPA" dragging us anywhere.

WE are ALPA, the PILOTS of jetblue are JBALPA. It's not a faceless boogyman, its the guys in the front of the plane.

We are the Union. We are JBALPA.

See it as you wish.

reservetank
02-01-2018, 11:50 AM
No one is taking offense, itís just a silly viewpoint. They will NOT be able to staff this place without a market rate contract. A majority of this group is just idling, waiting to see how this plays out all the while updating their apps.

ALPA isnít dragging us through a charade, itís how the process works. We canít just start performing illegal job actions without severe consequence.

New hire class numbers are way down?

And waiting 3 years is how the process works? Bollocks.

Final Clear
02-01-2018, 12:10 PM
See it as you wish.


Jenny's replacement?

Hey jetblue...FUPM,
FC

Bluedriver
02-01-2018, 12:20 PM
See it as you wish.

Coolhand is 100% correct. He sees it as it is.

CaptCoolHand
02-01-2018, 03:43 PM
See it as you wish.

Oh I see pretty clearly. Iíve been seeing for 10 years. Where did you come from? A forgiener from cape air? Who doesnít care to tip van drivers?

Please enlighten us on your vast experience on who you think APLA is?

AKcharger
02-01-2018, 04:09 PM
If you went to the picket you got a free Tee Shirt!!

rvr1800
02-01-2018, 04:46 PM
If you went to the picket you got a free Tee Shirt!!

I must’ve missed that. Too bad. When did they hand them out?

Edit: Just read they were the same shirts they gave out at the rally. I’ve got one of those already.

pilotpayne
02-01-2018, 05:52 PM
I mustíve missed that. Too bad. When did they hand them out?

Edit: Just read they were the same shirts they gave out at the rally. Iíve got one of those already.

Your welcome :)

WhistlePig
02-02-2018, 07:31 AM
First of all, are you a jetblue pilot? If so, ask your NC/P2P guys so you can get informed. But I dont think youíre a jetblue pilot based on your post history. If you are, youíre very new. Second of all, several contracts have been voted down, only to have a better TA2 shortly thereafter. I respectfully invite you to ST.FU and stop posting misinformation on our board.

The company knows they will have to pay market rate. It is in their best interest to delay that as long as possible. A no vote could absolutely restart the process if they choose to do so. They could keep some language, but they don't have to. SWA was starting to see lateral attrition so the company needed to get the deal done. I do work here and am as invested in success as you are. It's my board too. The point, which sailed over your head, was to support the union and trust them to put out a TA that is an easy yes. Threatening no is counter productive. Kindly suck it, sir.

RiddleEagle18
02-02-2018, 07:48 AM
Iíll say it again. Soooo many new voices trying to manage expectations.....


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GuppyPuppy
02-02-2018, 08:09 AM
The company knows they will have to pay market rate. It is in their best interest to delay that as long as possible. A no vote could absolutely restart the process if they choose to do so. They could keep some language, but they don't have to. SWA was starting to see lateral attrition so the company needed to get the deal done. I do work here and am as invested in success as you are. It's my board too. The point, which sailed over your head, was to support the union and trust them to put out a TA that is an easy yes. Threatening no is counter productive. Kindly suck it, sir.

I disagree that it is in the company's best interest to delay this as long as possible.

The longer this drags on, the more pilots will reach a point of no return where their GAS meter can never be fixed.

It can, and may, get really ugly. It is up to the company as to how ugly this will get.

700+ pilots picketing in front of headquarters is just the beginning. The company will decide when it will end.

GP

pilotpayne
02-02-2018, 08:12 AM
I’ll say it again. Soooo many new voices trying to manage expectations.....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Things that make you go hmmmmm
Along with that last email about what they offered I think we have their attention. Can’t wait for the next event maybe in warmer weather let’s try for 900 guys :)

If the keep dragging their feet I wouldn’t be shocked if we could get a number like that.

pilotpayne
02-02-2018, 08:15 AM
I disagree that it is in the company's best interest to delay this as long as possible.

The longer this drags on, the more pilots will reach a point of no return where their GAS meter can never be fixed.

It can, and may, get really ugly. It is up to the company as to how ugly this will get.

700+ pilots picketing in front of headquarters is just the beginning. The company will decide when it will end.

GP



This guy gets it and it all trickles down. Next the FAs than MX and AO/GO.

It didn’t have to go this way but they sure have inspired this pilot group. Good thing passion is one of our values :)

BeatNavy
02-02-2018, 09:21 AM
The company knows they will have to pay market rate. It is in their best interest to delay that as long as possible. A no vote could absolutely restart the process if they choose to do so. They could keep some language, but they don't have to. SWA was starting to see lateral attrition so the company needed to get the deal done. I do work here and am as invested in success as you are. It's my board too. The point, which sailed over your head, was to support the union and trust them to put out a TA that is an easy yes. Threatening no is counter productive. Kindly suck it, sir.

Your point didnít sail over my head; I say the same thing on here and elsewhere. But your misinformation about a ďnoĒ vote automatically being bad for the pilot group and automatically causing a restart of negotiations from square one needed to be addressed.

reservetank
02-02-2018, 11:20 AM
Oh I see pretty clearly. Iíve been seeing for 10 years. Where did you come from? A forgiener from cape air? Who doesnít care to tip van drivers?

Please enlighten us on your vast experience on who you think APLA is?

You just described a couple hundred guys. Don't get overly sensitive. I still wish everyone the best of luck.

RiddleEagle18
02-02-2018, 12:16 PM
You just described a couple hundred guys. Don't get overly sensitive. I still wish everyone the best of luck.



Ford and Harrison plant!! I hope they are at least paying you well.

Report back to Esposito FUPM.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CaptCoolHand
02-02-2018, 12:41 PM
You just described a couple hundred guys. Don't get overly sensitive. I still wish everyone the best of luck.

Are you sure you and Robin didnít go to the same school of How to not answer a question in 20 words or less?

Smokey23
02-02-2018, 01:29 PM
SWA guy here, and VERY impressed with your IP turnout! :cool: Don't listen to any of those mgmt plants trying to tell you it doesn't make any difference...purely symbolic...blah...blah...blah...

You just knocked your mgmt back on their heels like they've never seen before! It was the same for us. Now their negotiators can no longer claim your NC "isn't really representing the will of your pilots." It's really quite simple: your company doesn't want to pay one dollar more than they think you will accept, and they are willing to trade away what little good will some of you may still harbor towards them, to make you prove that you indeed will not settle for what they are currently offering. It's an unfortunate byproduct of too many beancounters in upper mgmt: they only believe numbers. Well, you just gave them some real numbers (700ish) to crunch!

Best of luck to you guys/gals!

say again
02-02-2018, 01:44 PM
SWA guy here, and VERY impressed with your IP turnout! :cool: Don't listen to any of those mgmt plants trying to tell you it doesn't make any difference...purely symbolic...blah...blah...blah...

You just knocked your mgmt back on their heels like they've never seen before! It was the same for us. Now their negotiators can no longer claim your NC "isn't really representing the will of your pilots." It's really quite simple: your company doesn't want to pay one dollar more than they think you will accept, and they are willing to trade away what little good will some of you may still harbor towards them, to make you prove that you indeed will not settle for what they are currently offering. It's an unfortunate byproduct of too many beancounters in upper mgmt: they only believe numbers. Well, you just gave them some real numbers (700ish) to crunch!

Best of luck to you guys/gals!

Great post! Thank you.

pilotpayne
02-02-2018, 02:52 PM
SWA guy here, and VERY impressed with your IP turnout! :cool: Don't listen to any of those mgmt plants trying to tell you it doesn't make any difference...purely symbolic...blah...blah...blah...

You just knocked your mgmt back on their heels like they've never seen before! It was the same for us. Now their negotiators can no longer claim your NC "isn't really representing the will of your pilots." It's really quite simple: your company doesn't want to pay one dollar more than they think you will accept, and they are willing to trade away what little good will some of you may still harbor towards them, to make you prove that you indeed will not settle for what they are currently offering. It's an unfortunate byproduct of too many beancounters in upper mgmt: they only believe numbers. Well, you just gave them some real numbers (700ish) to crunch!

Best of luck to you guys/gals!



You got that right.
I donít think they expected those numbers.

queue
02-02-2018, 04:13 PM
SWA guy here, and VERY impressed with your IP turnout! :cool: Don't listen to any of those mgmt plants trying to tell you it doesn't make any difference...purely symbolic...blah...blah...blah...

You just knocked your mgmt back on their heels like they've never seen before! It was the same for us. Now their negotiators can no longer claim your NC "isn't really representing the will of your pilots." It's really quite simple: your company doesn't want to pay one dollar more than they think you will accept, and they are willing to trade away what little good will some of you may still harbor towards them, to make you prove that you indeed will not settle for what they are currently offering. It's an unfortunate byproduct of too many beancounters in upper mgmt: they only believe numbers. Well, you just gave them some real numbers (700ish) to crunch!

Best of luck to you guys/gals!

And that is just one FREEZING DAY!

Imagine if they wanted to have it last several days when Spring temperatures come.... Many more people can come.

What's good for JB is good for SWA and all other airlines. These under-educated, highly replaceable management types are messing with the wrong people. I can't wait for management to start getting letters of no-confidence.

No Bucks, No Buck Rogers (http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/477917/Right-Stuff-The-Movie-Clip-No-Buck-Rogers.html) (go to 1:15)

Never forget who you are --- professionals who save 100-150-200 lives on a single flight, every day.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4187/34172325450_158f38cf39_b.jpg

nuball5
02-02-2018, 04:35 PM
You got that right.
I donít think they expected those numbers.

Heard a rumor that Jetblue sent an email to everyone at LSC to expect to see some pilots picketing outside and that they expect it'll only be about 100 pilots. 😂

PasserOGas
02-03-2018, 05:22 AM
We made national news! Boom!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2018/02/02/jetblue-united-and-delta-face-union-pressure-as-airlines-remain-a-labor-stronghold/

N311JB
02-03-2018, 02:33 PM
Anyone checking out the Spirit threads with their TA? Baseline assumptions on what our 1st TA will be at?

Bluedriver
02-03-2018, 06:38 PM
Anyone checking out the Spirit threads with their TA? Baseline assumptions on what our 1st TA will be at?
No and heII NO.

No offense to any Spirit pilot.

Final Clear
02-03-2018, 09:29 PM
Anyone checking out the Spirit threads with their TA? Baseline assumptions on what our 1st TA will be at?

Heard several of our managers and our founder say that Spirit, and itís ilk, isnít our prime competitor. Jetblue likes to cherry-pick the big three because thereís fatter margins involved.

Hey jetblue...FUPM
FC