Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : Stay at Allegiant or go to DL


Cpstorm
02-01-2018, 09:53 PM
Hey guys hope I donít start anything FO here and happy however got one of those dream offers over at Delta. Really want to hear most guys thoughts. Is this still a stepping stone to a legacy or has the new contract changed peoples thoughts?

Tough to start over any thoughts? Relatively new to to Allegiant.


NotMrNiceGuy
02-02-2018, 02:17 AM
Hey guys hope I donít start anything FO here and happy however got one of those dream offers over at Delta. Really want to hear most guys thoughts. Is this still a stepping stone to a legacy or has the new contract changed peoples thoughts?

Tough to start over any thoughts? Relatively new to to Allegiant.

Where do you live? Where do you and your family want to settle down?

ecam
02-02-2018, 04:27 AM
Hey guys hope I don’t start anything FO here and happy however got one of those dream offers over at Delta. Really want to hear most guys thoughts. Is this still a stepping stone to a legacy or has the new contract changed peoples thoughts?

Tough to start over any thoughts? Relatively new to to Allegiant.

Is this a serious post?

I'm no fan of Delta, but run and don't look back.

Think about the money you would leave on the table, over the course of your career, buy staying here. For what? To be home every night? What's to guarantee that remains? Lots of crack downs lately. This place isn't what it used to be. We may be saying spirit or frontier on the radio soon. If you have an offer from Delta, go.


mkfmbos
02-02-2018, 04:30 AM
Hey guys hope I donít start anything FO here and happy however got one of those dream offers over at Delta. Really want to hear most guys thoughts. Is this still a stepping stone to a legacy or has the new contract changed peoples thoughts?

Tough to start over any thoughts? Relatively new to to Allegiant.

I don't work at Allegiant but I say go to Delta. Especially if you are below 40. Airlines like Allegiant will always claim to be in a lower tier, eventhough its BS thats what goes into all their negotiations. Which means lower pay, less benifits etc. Delta can never claim that lower tier BS.

At DL when things are good they are excellent. When things are bad they are just bad.

At companies like Allegiant, when things are good they are good. When things are bad, its terrible. Just look back 5-8 years.

But then again it all depends on what you want. Live in base, or commute. All I know is I have a few buddies at Legacy carriers, and it is not even a comparison. A friend of mine is clearing 15k this month on 2nd year FO pay staying in 5 star hotels. He had some pay protection conflicts and is working pretty hard but still. You choose your meal from a menu, all long call reserve, and they have "me too" clauses making sure they don't get left behind. More aircraft to bid onto, more routes, and right now upgrades ranging from 9 months to 6 years.

It is a no brainer for me.

JustWatching
02-02-2018, 04:37 AM
Hey guys hope I donít start anything FO here and happy however got one of those dream offers over at Delta. Really want to hear most guys thoughts. Is this still a stepping stone to a legacy or has the new contract changed peoples thoughts?

Tough to start over any thoughts? Relatively new to to Allegiant.

Iíve been here for a long time. Not many can say theyíve been here longer than I have. I really enjoy working here. I make a very good living and Iím in my house every single night.

With that said, If youíre relatively new to Allegiant or even have 4 or 5 years under your belt here, youíre much better served by going to Delta. Work rules, pay, retirement, pass benefits..... the only concern I would have is when the next downturn happens (and it will), will you have enough below you to withstand the furlough? Always a risk in this business.

Good luck

Cpstorm
02-02-2018, 06:46 AM
Thanks guys for all the replies. The commuting thing is not going to be an issue as I committed early on in this thing is to move where I am based.

I have enjoyed my time here so far but other then being home nightly I canít see anything that we have that Delta does not. I just wanted to see if I was perhaps missing something.

And yeah I just started second year and a good friend of mine started second year there and his pay does blow mine out of the water. At first I thought butbwait you can upgrade on the MD in 3 years here then realized there upgrade on the MD is 1 year and then once again they blow our pay out of the water.

Kind of hope some folks in management see this post as I am sure I wonít be the only one presented with this choice in the years to come.

LoFly
02-02-2018, 08:49 AM
...the only concern I would have is when the next downturn happens (and it will), will you have enough below you to withstand the furlough? Always a risk in this business.

Good luck


Hit the nail on the head: I feel there will be a major industry overhaul as more and more low cost companies are looking at intl travel. The ones who will take the hardest hit are the big 3. On the other hand half of their pilots will be retiring in the next decade so... Are you going to be senior enough? :confused:
whatever you choose congrats for the offer and good luck!

KC135
02-02-2018, 08:52 AM
At DL when things are good they are excellent. When things are bad they are just bad.

At companies like Allegiant, when things are good they are good. When things are bad, its terrible. Just look back 5-8 years.

Iíd have to disagree here. Take a look at the last couple downturns. When things were bad at least you had a job. We are very quick to forget how legacies furloughed last decade, some twice while G4 did hire (B6 also) through most of that period and made a profit.


With that being said your decision will probably be a factor of your age, how you value money/qol and where you want to live. DAL would be a big hit in QOL but a large bump in pay, retirement and arguably stability. While DALís business model puts then in a position more likely to furlough during a downturn their massive amount upcoming retirements would most like offset this future risk in my opinion. Only you can determine your priorities in terms of QOL, pay and stability (hard to predict).

For me it was a top priority not to leave my family for 4-5 days at a time (yes DAL has a lot of 5 days, 15-43% of total A320 hours depending on domicile). Some of you bring up the point, well G4 could lose the day trips. Very unlikely due to the current model/CASM structure but always a possibilty with a merger/acquisition. Even if I only get 5-10 more years of day trips/being with my family and I have to go back to living 40-60% of my life in hotels it would have been all worth it. Everybody is different though, I have friends who enjoy a weekly getaway from their family life or are driven by max income and there is nothing wrong with that.

Der Meister
02-02-2018, 09:10 AM
Hey guys hope I donít start anything FO here and happy however got one of those dream offers over at Delta. Really want to hear most guys thoughts. Is this still a stepping stone to a legacy or has the new contract changed peoples thoughts?

Tough to start over any thoughts? Relatively new to to Allegiant.

I made the move from G4 to DAL almost a year ago. One of the best decisions I ever made. I would say my QOL has improved significantly, because I can actually get the days off that I want with relative ease. Instead of the forced days off that I got with G4.

EALOFFSPRING
02-02-2018, 09:31 AM
If you were hired on or before February 2016, leave. If not stay.

eagleatr
02-02-2018, 09:37 AM
I moved from G4 to United. It's been an outstanding move. My QOL is a lot better that what is was there. I get more time off than what I did there, and I can easily get the days, or blocks of days, off that I want.

It's a completely different atmosphere too. I never feel like anyone is out to get me at United.

FreshWater
02-02-2018, 09:39 AM
Junior to me; Please leave anyway that way our training department will never catch up and put an unsustainable demand due to attrition. Hopefully planes get parked as you go-getters, go get-it. Good thing for everyone.;)

crxpilot
02-02-2018, 10:00 AM
Hey guys hope I donít start anything FO here and happy however got one of those dream offers over at Delta. Really want to hear most guys thoughts. Is this still a stepping stone to a legacy or has the new contract changed peoples thoughts?

Tough to start over any thoughts? Relatively new to to Allegiant.

Why donít you post this on the Delta forum? I would love to see the responses you get! Good luck. I think you already know what the right decision is.

j3cub
02-02-2018, 10:04 AM
Personally, you couldn't pay me to leave G4. My time with my family is more important than making more money. I make more than I ever expected. I make more than I NEED. Everything else is just bonus. Being on the road and away from my family to make some more cash just isn't worth it to me.

But I've been here a long time and have the seniority to go with it. I get what I want for days off and vacation. But even if I was junior the ability to be home is worth more.

To each his own. Some don't care. That's fine. And maybe I will be sucking face someday after a merger or maybe I end up at Delta on the bottom of the list when I could have gone much sooner. I'm willing to take that chance.

I have never felt anyone was out to get me. For the most part I enjoy who I work with.

FreshWater
02-02-2018, 10:33 AM
But dude, the hotels are cool..

akulahunter
02-02-2018, 10:46 AM
I am considered a prime candidate for DAL. No way I'm leaving G4. Tons of my friends think I'm crazy. However, the answer to your question is easy... Do you prefer QOL and family time or straight up cash.

You may make more and have more days off, but you'll still have WAY more TAFB at DAL and your W2/TAFB won't even be in the same ball park.

Also, you can work every holiday here and still spend part of your day with the family, try that any where else on a 3-5 day trip. Need one day off, call in sick for one day, not a whole trip.

YMMV, but for me there isn't a dollar amount that can replace time with my young children and not a whole lot of people on their death bed wish they had more money and less time with family and friends.

It would be different if we didn't make a respectable wage, but you will make a boat load of cash even with current book (it just won't be titanic sized, but then the titanic did sink...).

FreshWater
02-02-2018, 10:57 AM
Pretty simple make more money and say hi to the front desk at the marriot, or your family. Some of my mid life crisis associates like that lifestyle because the wife got the kids and the house.

KC135
02-02-2018, 11:08 AM
I moved from G4 to United. It's been an outstanding move. My QOL is a lot better that what is was there. I get more time off than what I did there, and I can easily get the days, or blocks of days, off that I want.

How do you get more time off at UAL? Or are you counting time off in hotels as time off? Even a month where I have to work 16 days and only get 14 off, I’m back home by 1 or 2pm on the days I work with the other half of the day off. Done at 2pm at the Hilton isn’t off work to most of us. More time off would be less monthly TAFB unless you meant to say more days off.

eagleatr
02-02-2018, 11:12 AM
How do you get more time off at UAL? Or are you counting time off in hotels as time off? Even a month where I have to work 16 days and only get 14 off, Iím back home by 1 or 2pm on the days I work with the other half of the day off. Done at 2pm at the Hilton isnít off work to most of us. More time off would be less monthly TAFB unless you meant to say more days off.

I average 16-18 days off a month. Last month, I worked 8 days. Had three weeks off over Christmas and New Year's.

You may be home every night now, but will it continue to be that way? Nobody there knows that answer.

Cpstorm
02-02-2018, 12:49 PM
That I think is my biggest concern our biggest benefit here is not codefied in contractual language or even a prohibitively high per diet to deincentvize the Hotel life.


I think my decision is made but hope that everyone lands where they are happy not necessarily where they might make the most.

CAirBear
02-02-2018, 03:43 PM
Congrats! That is awesome. I have been here under 2 years and am still relatively young. I update my apps weekly. I like it here, but if you can move on (unless your super senior here and/or close to retirement) I see no reason not to. Your definitely going to make more and have much better control of your schedule using a legitimate real PBS software and not our pathetic pile of complete... what a joke.

While the daytrips will still be around, for the most part, anyone saying we will not ever overnight here (on a consistent basis) I feel is naive. Every town hall they talk about routes they want to fly once the transition is complete. Your going to see a lot longer routes that arenít legal for one crew. Also they plan on 110 or so airframes by end of 2020. Thatís a pretty good amount. You really think all of those are going to be doing strictly out and backs?

I can absolutely see 60-70% daytrips and the rest a 2 day trip. FL, outstation - Vegas/IWA. Then reverse the next day. One night on the road crediting 13-15 hours.

Bottom line is the days of owning all the airplanes and being able to let them sit around 2-3 days a week are over. Lease payments will be due. These things have got to be flown and make money.

Congrats again!

SactisbonesBJ
02-02-2018, 04:39 PM
While the daytrips will still be around, for the most part, anyone saying we will not ever overnight here (on a consistent basis) I feel is naive. Every town hall they talk about routes they want to fly once the transition is complete. Your going to see a lot longer routes that arenít legal for one crew. Also they plan on 110 or so airframes by end of 2020. Thatís a pretty good amount. You really think all of those are going to be doing strictly out and backs?


Those calls are a sign of things to come, layovers are on the horizon. BOOM there goes your QOL. RUN to DL as fast as you can!

sqwkvfr
02-02-2018, 04:55 PM
I really enjoy working at G4 for all or most of the reasons outlined by others above.

That being said, I have a friend hired at about the same time at Delta. He is about to transition to the right seat of a widebody with it’s $190/hr FO pay rate, doesn’t have to do fiscal calisthenics in order to plan for retirement, regularly doesn’t fly for three weeks at a time, will find himself on the top 10% of the seniority list just before he is due to retire and kills it with soft pay and green slips while working for a company with such a strong brand and route structure that it can damn near set the market wherever they fly.

In the meantime many of us spend an entire day traveling to and from training for .88 or .75 hours of pay, constantly deal with incompetent support departments, and have management that seems to think that amending our business model to include operating and owning resorts on estuaries in Florida is the way forward.

Oh, and we’ve found ourselves squarely in the crosshairs of other ULCCs like Frontier and Spirit and one legacy carrier, all of whom are doing things like overlapping our routes or adding service to our cities and emulating our business model to include competing with us for used Airbusses by purchasing them from one of our better sources with their much deeper pockets and first hand knowledge of our acquisition methods and price points.

Go. No one will fault you and I wish you the best of luck.

ecam
02-02-2018, 08:44 PM
This is one of the dumbest discussions I've seen here yet.

Sure choose Allegiant over DAL. Be home every night until they decide to change that. There's no telling what this new group of middle managers might take away next. Even the chief pilots are powerless against them. Keep heading to Vegas every 6 months (or Florida if you live in Vegas) to put your job on the line with a bunch of juveniles who play favorites and have no idea how to survive in a line environment. At least you get a rental car in training and a decent hotel. Oh wait that's gone now too with the click of a keyboard! Well you could bid VBD. If you want to be in an airport hotel for a month without transportation. Good thing we have a strong union that really holds the company's feet to the fire, not one that grovels to the company then sends out strongly worded emails to save face. Well at least we will get a profit sharing check. Don't spend that 2g in one place.

Or you can go to DAL. Make a million more over a career and work for an airline you don't have to apologize for. Be treated like a professional and compensated like one. Hey go buy a new boat with those 20k profit sharing checks. Go get on a wide body and see the world!

But hey, at least here you're home every night. Until they decide you aren't. I'm counting the months until retirement. Don't be like me get out while you can and have a career not a job with a 6 month employment contract. This place is going down the toilet fast.

akulahunter
02-03-2018, 06:19 AM
Please feel free to retire now... I know this used to be a different airline, but that's the point. It's NOT the same airline it was three or four years ago. For guys hired around my seniority most of us have never had a problem here and enjoy working here.

I don't begrudge anyone who wants to move on (if you are senior to me, I think you would look GREAT in a double breasted suit). I'm staying for my reasons, yours may be different.

However, if you are trying to say it's the same airline as it was precontract, that's disingenuous at best.

Also, popular or not, the Rental car stuff and hotel stuff is most likely the company's response to the few peeps who constantly complain about every little thing. Hopefully this month proves their point of what it could be like and it goes back to "normal" in March. Then we codify the language we want in the next CBA. By now we should all have a list of the holes that need to be filled and language that needs to be tightened up.

ecam
02-03-2018, 07:47 AM
Please feel free to retire now... I know this used to be a different airline, but that's the point. It's NOT the same airline it was three or four years ago. For guys hired around my seniority most of us have never had a problem here and enjoy working here.

I don't begrudge anyone who wants to move on (if you are senior to me, I think you would look GREAT in a double breasted suit). I'm staying for my reasons, yours may be different.

However, if you are trying to say it's the same airline as it was precontract, that's disingenuous at best.

Also, popular or not, the Rental car stuff and hotel stuff is most likely the company's response to the few peeps who constantly complain about every little thing. Hopefully this month proves their point of what it could be like and it goes back to "normal" in March. Then we codify the language we want in the next CBA. By now we should all have a list of the holes that need to be filled and language that needs to be tightened up.

My only response to that is that we MUST stop blaming each other and tearing down fellow pilots over the bad actions of management. The blame for these recent crackdowns lies solely on a bad faith management group. They stopped paying because they aren't required to. It's really that simple. They couldn't care less about a handful of whining pilots. That's what pilots do is whine all the time. Management learned to ignore that a long time ago.

It's also no coincidence that they are currently taking every section of our contract to an arbitrator via the grievance process. They are fighting because they can.

If you must blame a fellow pilot for this, blame the IBT reps who brought us this terrible contract that didn't memorialize any of these perks we've gotten since day one. Maybe also the pit bulls with no teeth currently "enforcing" the contract.

Maybe this is just one of the many bad cycles we have had here over the years, but this time it seems much different. It's almost like they are trying to intentionally burn the house down. I've said many times on here, that strange things are happening at HQ. Some of the moles I know over there are telling stories I can't believe. I'm inclined to believe it's going to get worse before it gets better. All we can do is hang together and practice a little trade unionism. Do your job exactly the way it's supposed to be done and nothing more. Don't do them any favors that won't be returned. If they can play hardball, so can we.

akulahunter
02-03-2018, 09:09 AM
My only response to that is that we MUST stop blaming each other and tearing down fellow pilots over the bad actions of management. The blame for these recent crackdowns lies solely on a bad faith management group. They stopped paying because they aren't required to. It's really that simple. They couldn't care less about a handful of whining pilots. That's what pilots do is whine all the time. Management learned to ignore that a long time ago.

It's also no coincidence that they are currently taking every section of our contract to an arbitrator via the grievance process. They are fighting because they can.

If you must blame a fellow pilot for this, blame the IBT reps who brought us this terrible contract that didn't memorialize any of these perks we've gotten since day one. Maybe also the pit bulls with no teeth currently "enforcing" the contract.

Maybe this is just one of the many bad cycles we have had here over the years, but this time it seems much different. It's almost like they are trying to intentionally burn the house down. I've said many times on here, that strange things are happening at HQ. Some of the moles I know over there are telling stories I can't believe. I'm inclined to believe it's going to get worse before it gets better. All we can do is hang together and practice a little trade unionism. Do your job exactly the way it's supposed to be done and nothing more. Don't do them any favors that won't be returned. If they can play hardball, so can we.

Ok, not sure where to go with that. We must work at two different airlines. I certainly don't see anything that looks like they are trying to burn the house down. That's ludicrous. Anyone who has been anywhere that management has been trying to burn the house down knows how ridiculous that statement is.

Yes, it's unfortunate that the company is doing that this month. However, if you think that they just arbitrarily chose now to make a statement about hotels and rental cars, you are naive or just trying to build animosity against the company. You don't strike me as naive... yes, pilots whine, we are great at it. However, the recent stuff with the hotels and rental cars goes way beyond whining (you know what I mean).

On a separate note, I totally agree that we should stick together. Just make sure we fix these issues in the next CBA!

cskafan123
02-03-2018, 10:05 AM
Hey guys hope I donít start anything FO here and happy however got one of those dream offers over at Delta. Really want to hear most guys thoughts. Is this still a stepping stone to a legacy or has the new contract changed peoples thoughts?

Tough to start over any thoughts?
Relatively new to to Allegiant.

Delta 100% . Money, QOL,retirement and better career progression. You won't need to file greviances every 3 days.

Count Dracula
02-03-2018, 10:43 AM
This is one of the dumbest discussions I've seen here yet.



Sure choose Allegiant over DAL. Be home every night until they decide to change that. There's no telling what this new group of middle managers might take away next. Even the chief pilots are powerless against them. Keep heading to Vegas every 6 months (or Florida if you live in Vegas) to put your job on the line with a bunch of juveniles who play favorites and have no idea how to survive in a line environment. At least you get a rental car in training and a decent hotel. Oh wait that's gone now too with the click of a keyboard! Well you could bid VBD. If you want to be in an airport hotel for a month without transportation. Good thing we have a strong union that really holds the company's feet to the fire, not one that grovels to the company then sends out strongly worded emails to save face. Well at least we will get a profit sharing check. Don't spend that 2g in one place.



Or you can go to DAL. Make a million more over a career and work for an airline you don't have to apologize for. Be treated like a professional and compensated like one. Hey go buy a new boat with those 20k profit sharing checks. Go get on a wide body and see the world!



But hey, at least here you're home every night. Until they decide you aren't. I'm counting the months until retirement. Don't be like me get out while you can and have a career not a job with a 6 month employment contract. This place is going down the toilet fast.



Ditto. This would be similar to Trump teaching a course on Ethics & Integrity [emoji51]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

crxpilot
02-03-2018, 12:20 PM
Ditto. This would be similar to Clinton teaching a course on Ethics & Integrity [emoji51]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There. Fixed it for ya. Your welcome.

ecam
02-03-2018, 08:33 PM
Ok, not sure where to go with that. We must work at two different airlines. I certainly don't see anything that looks like they are trying to burn the house down. That's ludicrous. Anyone who has been anywhere that management has been trying to burn the house down knows how ridiculous that statement is.

Yes, it's unfortunate that the company is doing that this month. However, if you think that they just arbitrarily chose now to make a statement about hotels and rental cars, you are naive or just trying to build animosity against the company. You don't strike me as naive... yes, pilots whine, we are great at it. However, the recent stuff with the hotels and rental cars goes way beyond whining (you know what I mean).

On a separate note, I totally agree that we should stick together. Just make sure we fix these issues in the next CBA!

You don't think ****ing off the pilot group by constantly wiping their asses with the contract, denying rental cars in training, shipping people across the country for no reason, and taking away all QOL from the VBDs isn't burning the place down? No I don't think I'm naive or ridiculous. I don't understand why management would do this, especially after the respectable investor report this week. They are acting like we are a bankrupt airline! It's almost like they want out of the airline business...

Makes about as much sense as building a luxury resort in an area known for trailer parks on a sulfurous black water bayou.

j3cub
02-03-2018, 08:46 PM
You don't think ****ing off the pilot group by constantly wiping their asses with the contract, denying rental cars in training, shipping people across the country for no reason, and taking away all QOL from the VBDs isn't burning the place down? No I don't think I'm naive or ridiculous. I don't understand why management would do this, especially after the respectable investor report this week. They are acting like we are a bankrupt airline! It's almost like they want out of the airline business...

Makes about as much sense as building a luxury resort in an area known for trailer parks on a sulfurous black water bayou.

Maybe you should start an airline. You seem to know how to make money and run a company better than current management.

It always amuses me how pilots always know better, yet they continue to stay pilots and will never make the millions that management does.

Count Dracula
02-03-2018, 08:54 PM
There. Fixed it for ya. Your welcome.



Trump & Clinton were golf buddies....One likes golden showers, the other cigars. There I fixed it for you....your welcome!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ecam
02-03-2018, 08:56 PM
Maybe you should start an airline. You seem to know how to make money and run a company better than current management.

It always amuses me how pilots always know better, yet they continue to stay pilots and will never make the millions that management does.

Thanks for opinion junior. Maybe you will understand and agree when you get close to the end of your career. I'm inclined to think I've been flying longer than almost everyone running this place. I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly of this business. I've held management positions but they never paid millions. I would rather just fly my trip and go home. I just hate to see friends and coworkers getting screwed for no particular reason. If you think everything here is still hunky dory and nothing has changed, then I'm not going to be able to convince you. We had a good honeymoon period from the contract signing to about 6 months ago. Now we're right back the the same old petty games. Maybe you weren't here. Well we fought them then and we can fight them now.

crxpilot
02-03-2018, 09:47 PM
There. Fixed it for ya. Your welcome.

Trump & Clinton were golf buddies....One likes golden showers, the other cigars. There I fixed it for you....your welcome!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dont worry......only 7 more years. MAGA!

Flight Deck Ape
02-04-2018, 04:53 AM
Thanks for opinion junior. Maybe you will understand and agree when you get close to the end of your career. I'm inclined to think I've been flying longer than almost everyone running this place. I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly of this business. I've held management positions but they never paid millions. I would rather just fly my trip and go home. I just hate to see friends and coworkers getting screwed for no particular reason. If you think everything here is still hunky dory and nothing has changed, then I'm not going to be able to convince you. We had a good honeymoon period from the contract signing to about 6 months ago. Now we're right back the the same old petty games. Maybe you weren't here. Well we fought them then and we can fight them now.

I am glad that I am not the only one that has sensed a shift in attitude towards this pilot group by management. I have been here just over a year but when I started I felt like they were really trying to turn this place into a legitimate operation by spending money where it needed to be spent to keep crews happy and improve the operation.

Now it feels like there is an attitude of indifference. Itís almost like they are just waiting around for something to happen and they want to minimize their expenditures in the mean time. Perhaps my experience has been skewed due to still being on the dying MD-80 fleet.

However, I should have known better when on the first day of MD-80 IOE my captain said ďNever forget that this company hates pilots.Ē I thought I would come to G4 and finish my career here but now I am actively looking for an exit.

ecam
02-04-2018, 05:20 AM
I am glad that I am not the only one that has sensed a shift in attitude towards this pilot group by management. I have been here just over a year but when I started I felt like they were really trying to turn this place into a legitimate operation by spending money where it needed to be spent to keep crews happy and improve the operation.

That ended when Jude left. Notice Sun Country is now pursuing a similar path.

Flight Deck Ape
02-04-2018, 05:37 AM
That ended when Jude left. Notice Sun Country is now pursuing a similar path.

That is a very good point. I did not even correlate the two but it makes perfect sense. I only had the opportunity to meet Jude once but my first impression was that he was a solid manager and respected by the pilot group.

bababouey
02-04-2018, 05:46 AM
Allegiant is a travel agency with planes, they are not built for the long haul, Delta is a legacy airline that will survive a downturn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WHACKMASTER
02-04-2018, 06:32 AM
Hey guys hope I donít start anything FO here and happy however got one of those dream offers over at Delta. Really want to hear most guys thoughts. Is this still a stepping stone to a legacy or has the new contract changed peoples thoughts?

Tough to start over any thoughts? Relatively new to to Allegiant.


The cordial and polite part of me wishes you the best no matter what path you chose (and I sincerely mean it). The brutally honest part of me wants to ask you if youíre crazy for even considering the decision. RUN to Delta. The amount of retirements in the coming years is your furlough protection.

ecam
02-04-2018, 06:53 AM
Allegiant is a travel agency with planes, they are not built for the long haul, Delta is a legacy airline that will survive a downturn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Allegiant weathered the last couple down turns pretty well, but our route structure was a lot more niche then. We flew to places nobody else flew where we were the only game in town. ("We don't compete with the other airlines, we compete with Home Depot"). Now that we are becoming more of a traditional ULCC in our route structure, and competing head to head with not only the big 4, but other ULCCs, I don't see it ending well. Best hope for younger pilots here is a legacy buyout, but I'm really starting to think a merger among the ULCCs is looking very likely and somewhat soon. If you have more than 10 years left in your career, use allegiant as a stepping stone to a legacy. You'd be nuts to stay and roll the dice on this place. They prove every day that it will never be a real airline.

Flight Deck Ape
02-04-2018, 07:38 AM
Hey guys hope I donít start anything FO here and happy however got one of those dream offers over at Delta. Really want to hear most guys thoughts. Is this still a stepping stone to a legacy or has the new contract changed peoples thoughts?

Tough to start over any thoughts? Relatively new to to Allegiant.

I should have answered the OPís question earlier but I say go to Delta and donít look back.

Also, regarding the G4 QOL and being home every night: we already do overnights at this company but we just do them in the form of a VBD group of pilots. By my rough estimate, for every 30 nights that a VBD pilot spends in a hotel each month, that is the equivalent of 2.5 pilots doing an average of 12 nights a month in a hotel (four 4-day trips). This does not take into account the plane tickets, per diem, or rental cars (sore subject) that goes into the expense of VBD.

My guess is that in the not-too-distant-future (after the Airbus transition) the company will figure out how to build efficient multi-day day trips to cover the seasonal nature of our flying. And by efficient I mean efficient for the company, not necessarily efficient for you in terms of PCH. There may still be a very small VBD contingent leftover but I would be prepared to pack your bags and hit the road with G4 within the next couple of years. At that point the answer to the OPís question will be crystal clear.

CaptYoda
02-04-2018, 09:49 AM
DAL, without a doubt if it were me.

BigfootCapo
02-04-2018, 10:00 AM
All due respect, not sure what is there to think about. Do not bypass and regret it years later. Go to Delta and consider yourself fortunate for the opportunity. Overall, it is just a better choice from just about any angle you look at it. Good luck.

JustWatching
02-04-2018, 10:23 AM
Ok, not sure where to go with that. We must work at two different airlines. I certainly don't see anything that looks like they are trying to burn the house down. That's ludicrous. Anyone who has been anywhere that management has been trying to burn the house down knows how ridiculous that statement is.

Yes, it's unfortunate that the company is doing that this month. However, if you think that they just arbitrarily chose now to make a statement about hotels and rental cars, you are naive or just trying to build animosity against the company. You don't strike me as naive... yes, pilots whine, we are great at it. However, the recent stuff with the hotels and rental cars goes way beyond whining (you know what I mean).

On a separate note, I totally agree that we should stick together. Just make sure we fix these issues in the next CBA!

Iím with ya man. We have our issues for sure, but not a bad place to hang your hat. ECAM is a grumpy old man who really should relax before having a coronary.

FreshWater
02-04-2018, 11:20 AM
The other op already made up his mind before he started the thread. No one makes life altering decisions based on internet/social media straw polling. Enjoy. Leaving and encouraging everyone else in your class will help us all. Hopefully new hires will not make it past their probation and the rest of the bottom will leave in big chunks and sprinkle in some semi to very senior and the training department will sink again.

It is true, we are seeing the ugly head of management again since JBs resignation.

9easy
02-04-2018, 03:02 PM
Several guys gave up AA recalls to stay at Allegiant. I would consider the career potential of someone going to AA equivalent to DL, and these guys obviously saw some value staying at Allegiant. Then again if you went through the trouble to apply and pass the interview at Delta you probably already made your mind up.

mainlineAF
02-04-2018, 03:22 PM
Several guys gave up AA recalls to stay at Allegiant. I would consider the career potential of someone going to AA equivalent to DL, and these guys obviously saw some value staying at Allegiant. Then again if you went through the trouble to apply and pass the interview at Delta you probably already made your mind up.



And those guys were probably senior captains in their 50s who lived in base at allegiant.

Much different than a 30 year old fo looking to make the switch.

FreshWater
02-04-2018, 04:28 PM
And those guys were probably senior captains in their 50s who lived in base at allegiant.

Not all of them. Some were in their early 40s and I know one that is in his 30s.

labbats
02-04-2018, 05:05 PM
Furloughed from TWA or AA and in their 30s? Címon man

j3cub
02-04-2018, 05:08 PM
Yep. At least 4 that I know of were early 30s.

Falcondrivr
02-04-2018, 05:27 PM
Delta. Allegiant is just another in a long line of ďalmost made the big timeĒ airlines. If they arenít bought by someone they will join the list of companies that we canít quite remember their names but who did really well....for a while.

FreshWater
02-04-2018, 05:31 PM
Delta. Allegiant is just another in a long line of ďalmost made the big timeĒ airlines. If they arenít bought by someone they will join the list of companies that we canít quite remember their names but who did really well....for a while.

Like valuejtet/airtran?

Sliceback
02-04-2018, 05:41 PM
Not all of them. Some were in their early 40s and I know one that is in his 30s.

A guy hired at 23-25, hired in 2000-2001, would be in his 30's in 2015. Let's assume the guy in his 30's is now 41. He'd retire in 2042. Seniority number 12,000 of 15,200.

The retirement numbers are crazy.

He'd upgrade in 2020. Current manning he'd be a 767 CA in PHL in 2025. He'd be an A330 CA in PHL in 2030. He'd be an A330 CA line holder in 2033-2034. Retire in 2042.

He'd spend 15 yrs in the top 30%. Twelve yrs in the top 20%. Eight yrs in the top 10%. Retire at 2.2%. That's 17% on the A330 CA in PHL.

His final n/b CA number would be 0.2% (8 of 4600) n/b CA's. Top 1.5% on the 767. Top 21% on the 777/787/330 fleets.

mainlineAF
02-04-2018, 05:50 PM
Yep. At least 4 that I know of were early 30s.



So they got hired at 18?

Window_Seat
02-05-2018, 02:41 PM
Trump & Clinton were golf buddies....One likes golden showers, the other cigars. There I fixed it for you....your welcome!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fixed it for both of you tier 2 guys. YOU'RE welcome :D

NYC Pilot
02-05-2018, 04:28 PM
Hey guys hope I donít start anything FO here and happy however got one of those dream offers over at Delta. Really want to hear most guys thoughts. Is this still a stepping stone to a legacy or has the new contract changed peoples thoughts?

Tough to start over any thoughts? Relatively new to to Allegiant.

It's comical that you have to ask such a question. I don't really care for Delta but obviously there is no comparison from a stability, compensation and equipment standpoint. I don't know, maybe you like it and don't care to move on or are just showing off that you got a job at Delta.

Rama
02-05-2018, 08:08 PM
Any time you consider a career move, always think where will I (company I choose to work for) be in 5, 10 and 15 years?
The answer seems obvious, though of course there are no guarantees in the airline biz.

dawgdriver
02-05-2018, 08:19 PM
I’d have to disagree here. Take a look at the last couple downturns. When things were bad at least you had a job. We are very quick to forget how legacies furloughed last decade, some twice while G4 did hire (B6 also) through most of that period and made a profit.


With that being said your decision will probably be a factor of your age, how you value money/qol and where you want to live. DAL would be a big hit in QOL but a large bump in pay, retirement and arguably stability. While DAL’s business model puts then in a position more likely to furlough during a downturn their massive amount upcoming retirements would most like offset this future risk in my opinion. Only you can determine your priorities in terms of QOL, pay and stability (hard to predict).

For me it was a top priority not to leave my family for 4-5 days at a time (yes DAL has a lot of 5 days, 15-43% of total A320 hours depending on domicile). Some of you bring up the point, well G4 could lose the day trips. Very unlikely due to the current model/CASM structure but always a possibilty with a merger/acquisition. Even if I only get 5-10 more years of day trips/being with my family and I have to go back to living 40-60% of my life in hotels it would have been all worth it. Everybody is different though, I have friends who enjoy a weekly getaway from their family life or are driven by max income and there is nothing wrong with that.

Excellent points.

In regards to furlough, it's anyone's guess and while it's true that Allegiant hired while others were laying off, it's not the same airline or industry and the past is not always an indicator of the future.

G4 is no longer the nimble trinket with cheap planes and cheaper labor that stayed under the radar, surviving a recession by parking planes that were paid for. Today's G4 is a $2.5B company with $1B in resort debt, higher (unionized) labor costs with less flexibility, newer aircraft and stiffer competition from majors and other ULCCs. (The 'U' is disappearing in 'ULCC'). Others have caught on to the ancillary revenue and the majors are coming after AAY and others with increased presence in smaller and mid-sized markets. Yes they've failed before with Song and Ted, so time will tell.

Legacies face huge headwinds of their own so they're not risk-free either when it comes to furlough, but retirements should ensure fairly rapid progression. If I were junior, single and still in my 30s, I would be gone already. Pay, security and retirements aren't even in the same ballpark. CAVEAT: The quality of life at G4 is HUGE; a unique and incalculable benefit for families; although it appears foundational, there's no way of telling how much or how long it will last, or even whether AAY will last in it's present form.

Whatever you decide, best of luck in your decision. On your retirement day you will know the answer.

cactusmike
02-05-2018, 09:21 PM
And those guys were probably senior captains in their 50s who lived in base at allegiant.

Much different than a 30 year old fo looking to make the switch.

And as someone who is at AA, I think that was a huge mistake for anyone under 50 or 55. The money you make and the lifestyle you can have outdo Allegiant. I know some people there, Iíve watched your airline go through all the issues. A couple of years ago Allegiant couldnít keep planes in the air and you guys were coming out of the woodwork with all the issues. Do you not remember the captain fired for a bs reason?

Delta is far better than any second tier airline. If you want to stay at your airline for family reasons or staying in a small town and being home every night then fine. I know guys that stayed at my former regional for decades because they liked living large in a small town. But I think thatís being very short sighted. Flying for Delta you will be millions ahead just in your 401k, let alone salary. You will make more as a widebody f/o than an Allegiant captain. And the lifestyle is a lot better. One leg to Europe, rest break enroute, great layover hotel, one leg home. Itís a pretty nice way to make 200 to 350k per year. And that bottom figure is f/o wages. You just canít fathom how nice this is until you get to do it.

For someone who has a job offer from Delta this should be a snap decision. I canít believe anyone would actually ponder this decision. Not everyone gets the call to make it to the big 3 or 4. I understand that a lot of good people get passed over for the job, but for someone who has the opportunity? Crazy to think of passing it up.

cactusmike
02-05-2018, 09:25 PM
One more thing. Downturns happen. But if the economy crashes or oil goes back up to $120 per barrel or higher then itís the airline that caters to the business traveler that will succeed. People going on a vacation wonít have the money to travel and you wonít sell $69 tickets when oil goes sky high.

Laramie
02-06-2018, 01:42 AM
Hey guys hope I donít start anything FO here and happy however got one of those dream offers over at Delta. Really want to hear most guys thoughts. Is this still a stepping stone to a legacy or has the new contract changed peoples thoughts?

Tough to start over any thoughts? Relatively new to to Allegiant.


I was once at Airtran. For the most part, life was good. Fast upgrade. OK pay. Etc, etc.

That said, we were a disposable airline. We owned very little. In fact, you will notice how easily and quickly Southwest disposed of us. If I didn't keep my old hat emblem, I wouldn't even know Airtran ever existed.

Another anecdote. A friend was furloughed from Northwest/Delta--for years. Was quite senior at Jetblue. He took the recall to Delta.

Delta ain't going anywhere. They may furlough. They may not. Go. Ask for an earlier class date. Wake up and smell the double-breasted suit! Your ex-wives will thank you.:)

SkiVasquez
02-06-2018, 03:19 AM
One more thing. Downturns happen. But if the economy crashes or oil goes back up to $120 per barrel or higher then itís the airline that caters to the business traveler that will succeed. People going on a vacation wonít have the money to travel and you wonít sell $69 tickets when oil goes sky high.

I agreed with most of what you were saying...up until this.

During downturns, businesses cut back on travel costs, not only number of flights but also on first/business class travel. The legacies took huge hits during the recessions partly because they lost their "bread-and-butter" revenue (i.e. business traveler). Yes, people will cut back on leisure travel during a downturn, but businesses do as well.

Allegiant was still making a profit during last recession. The legacies weren't. People still want to vacation, even during a downturn. They're just unwilling to spend a lot. That's where the ULCCs shine.

With that being said, any young/junior pilot needs to look at moving on. We aren't going to be affected by retirements like the legacies are. Junior people are not going to accrue seniority without more senior-pilot attrition or continued growth. You'll end up in a much better spot more quickly at a legacy than you will here.

ecam
02-06-2018, 08:32 AM
I agreed with most of what you were saying...up until this.

During downturns, businesses cut back on travel costs, not only number of flights but also on first/business class travel. The legacies took huge hits during the recessions partly because they lost their "bread-and-butter" revenue (i.e. business traveler). Yes, people will cut back on leisure travel during a downturn, but businesses do as well.

Allegiant was still making a profit during last recession. The legacies weren't. People still want to vacation, even during a downturn. They're just unwilling to spend a lot. That's where the ULCCs shine.

With that being said, any young/junior pilot needs to look at moving on. We aren't going to be affected by retirements like the legacies are. Junior people are not going to accrue seniority without more senior-pilot attrition or continued growth. You'll end up in a much better spot more quickly at a legacy than you will here.


Agreed. Sure we parked some paid for airlines, and tightened our belts, but people in middle Iowa are always going to want a vacation. And when they do, they go online and find the cheapest ticket. During a recession, people who would fly a legacy airline give us a try. And they realize that not only the price is right, they skip that busy hub with a plane change and go direct to their destination. They love it and become loyal customers. We actually do better during recessions. Southwest seems to have this effect too.

Legacy carriers (DAL, UAL, AAL) make most of their money on business travelers and international seats. When the sky falls, businesses do less travel and more teleconferences. International tourism drops off. Same happens with wars or terrorist attacks. Without a doubt, the big 3 are more susceptible to downturns than the LCC/ULCC airlines.

I have friends at UAL who were furloughed twice. They struggled, and found stuff to do on their furlough. But you know what? They are back and making more money than me in the right seat of a wide body. Downturns happen. Furloughs happen. It's part of the industry. As a long timer, I say take that legacy seniority number and don't look back.

Captainbfv
02-06-2018, 11:33 AM
Several guys gave up AA recalls to stay at Allegiant. I would consider the career potential of someone going to AA equivalent to DL, and these guys obviously saw some value staying at Allegiant. Then again if you went through the trouble to apply and pass the interview at Delta you probably already made your mind up.



Very good point


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Captainbfv
02-06-2018, 11:34 AM
And those guys were probably senior captains in their 50s who lived in base at allegiant.

Much different than a 30 year old fo looking to make the switch.



Excellent point sir. Itís simple if u have any doubts or donít see your future here? Then you already made your choice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Captainbfv
02-06-2018, 11:35 AM
Furloughed from TWA or AA and in their 30s? Címon man



There are a few. Iíve personally met 1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

labbats
02-06-2018, 11:55 AM
Recently? You said one was in his 30s.

They stopped hiring in 2001 and an ATP requires you to be 23 years old.

Doesnít matter really. Hope the best for those that stayed and those that left.

GogglesPisano
02-06-2018, 11:56 AM
With the amount of retirements looming on the horizon at Delta, I'm confident we will simply not hire and allow retirements to take care of excess staffing in the event of a serious downturn. (Seriously -- a third of our list.)

Don't live your life in fear and look back at age 65 at what could have been.

I think the OP has already made up his mind, FWIW.

KC135
02-06-2018, 02:19 PM
And as someone who is at AA, I think that was a huge mistake for anyone under 50 or 55. The money you make and the lifestyle you can have outdo Allegiant. I know some people there, Iíve watched your airline go through all the issues. A couple of years ago Allegiant couldnít keep planes in the air and you guys were coming out of the woodwork with all the issues. Do you not remember the captain fired for a bs reason?

Delta is far better than any second tier airline. If you want to stay at your airline for family reasons or staying in a small town and being home every night then fine. I know guys that stayed at my former regional for decades because they liked living large in a small town. But I think thatís being very short sighted. Flying for Delta you will be millions ahead just in your 401k, let alone salary. You will make more as a widebody f/o than an Allegiant captain. And the lifestyle is a lot better. One leg to Europe, rest break enroute, great layover hotel, one leg home. Itís a pretty nice way to make 200 to 350k per year. And that bottom figure is f/o wages. You just canít fathom how nice this is until you get to do it.

For someone who has a job offer from Delta this should be a snap decision. I canít believe anyone would actually ponder this decision. Not everyone gets the call to make it to the big 3 or 4. I understand that a lot of good people get passed over for the job, but for someone who has the opportunity? Crazy to think of passing it up.

I've looked at the majority of the widebody pairings at DAL and all of them would be a QOL decrease from day trips. I can see how some people enjoy that type flying and that's great but the backside of the clock working will wear down your body over the years/decades. I would rather work a few day trips and be around to see my kids grow up when I get off work. There is no doubt that you will have a better retirement fund but as little as I work and as much as I'm home even on the days I work, I feel like I'm retired now.

Beans
02-06-2018, 02:33 PM
Hey guys hope I donít start anything FO here and happy however got one of those dream offers over at Delta. Really want to hear most guys thoughts. Is this still a stepping stone to a legacy or has the new contract changed peoples thoughts?

Tough to start over any thoughts? Relatively new to to Allegiant.

How is it "tough to start over" if you are "relatively new"? Didn't you just start over at Allegiant?

hyde
02-06-2018, 02:38 PM
How is it "tough to start over" if you are "relatively new"? Didn't you just start over at Allegiant?

It's called trolling

Husker75
02-07-2018, 07:46 PM
Ruuuuuuun!!!!

UGBSM
02-12-2018, 02:08 PM
I've looked at the majority of the widebody pairings at DAL and all of them would be a QOL decrease from day trips. I can see how some people enjoy that type flying and that's great but the backside of the clock working will wear down your body over the years/decades. I would rather work a few day trips and be around to see my kids grow up when I get off work. There is no doubt that you will have a better retirement fund but as little as I work and as much as I'm home even on the days I work, I feel like I'm retired now.

You do know that Delta has "day trips" also, right? Virtually every category has 1 day trips in the bid package. You can also siimply drop all of your awarded trips and pickup nothing but 1 day trips if you want. Just sayin...

KC135
02-12-2018, 03:20 PM
You do know that Delta has "day trips" also, right? Virtually every category has 1 day trips in the bid package. You can also siimply drop all of your awarded trips and pickup nothing but 1 day trips if you want. Just sayin...

Yeah I’ve looked into it, day trips typically range from 3-15% of total block hours depnding on equip/base. A new hire could hold them in maybe 5-10 years in ATL for example and they aren’t always available to just pick up. It would be a nice gig if you wanted to live in NYC for example. I’m just not personally interested in waiting for the seniorty to hold them then dealing with ATL traffic, waiting for an employee bus ride, tram ride, working a turn then possibly 1-3 hours of traffic on the drive home. I currently can drive 10 mins then walk 3 minutes from my car to the flight deck. I think DAL is a great job for the younger guys since there is so much variety and a niche for almost everyone.

UGBSM
02-12-2018, 04:35 PM
Yeah Iíve looked into it, day trips typically range from 3-15% of total block hours depnding on equip/base. A new hire could hold them in maybe 5-10 years in ATL for example and they arenít always available to just pick up. It would be a nice gig if you wanted to live in NYC for example. Iím just not personally interested in waiting for the seniorty to hold them then dealing with ATL traffic, waiting for an employee bus ride, tram ride, working a turn then possibly 1-3 hours of traffic on the drive home. I currently can drive 10 mins then walk 3 minutes from my car to the flight deck. I think DAL is a great job for the younger guys since there is so much variety and a niche for almost everyone.

Well QOL is in the eye of the beholder of course. I only chime in here because this thread is a discussion comparing Delta to Allegiant QOL.

I see most here tout the advantage of Allegiant as spending nights at home. Albeit at the cost of lower pay and probably working a lot harder when you are at work.

Traffic and bus rides are really more a small town vs big city issue than comparing our airline QOL.

What I could point out is that if QOL = max time spent with family, then I think perhaps Delta offers more opportunities to fly smarter not harder, even if you are junior. You can find opportunities at Delta where you are home every night with the kids because you literally almost never fly. And pays better to boot.

But I get that at Allegiant even the most junior can sleep at home at night and if that narrow definition fits your best QOL, then great. My definition of QOL with my family is a bit more broadly defined as the most total time at home with my family per month.

KC135
02-12-2018, 06:27 PM
What I could point out is that if QOL = max time spent with family, then I think perhaps Delta offers more opportunities to fly smarter not harder, even if you are junior. You can find opportunities at Delta where you are home every night with the kids because you literally almost never fly. And pays better to boot.

But I get that at Allegiant even the most junior can sleep at home at night and if that narrow definition fits your best QOL, then great. My definition of QOL with my family is a bit more broadly defined as the most total time at home with my family per month.

I completly agree with you about QOL = max time with family. So DAL has more than double the average monthly TAFB vs G4, so whatís your logic here? If youíre going to bring up widebody trip rigs whatís your usual monthly time away from base? Maybe you will reply with reserve? When I bid reserve I rarely get called, Iíve gone over 2 months without a call but 4 days a month is average and 99% of the time when the phone rings Iím back home the same day. A lot of us donít work as hard as you think. My credit last year was a little more than double my block as a line holder and outside of training events the credit over block was spent at home with the family not on an airport sit or trying to reset my circadian rhythm in London. As far as pay, there is no denying the average legacy career pays more than any LCC.

JustWatching
02-13-2018, 05:25 AM
Well QOL is in the eye of the beholder of course. I only chime in here because this thread is a discussion comparing Delta to Allegiant QOL.

I see most here tout the advantage of Allegiant as spending nights at home. Albeit at the cost of lower pay and probably working a lot harder when you are at work.

Traffic and bus rides are really more a small town vs big city issue than comparing our airline QOL.

What I could point out is that if QOL = max time spent with family, then I think perhaps Delta offers more opportunities to fly smarter not harder, even if you are junior. You can find opportunities at Delta where you are home every night with the kids because you literally almost never fly. And pays better to boot.

But I get that at Allegiant even the most junior can sleep at home at night and if that narrow definition fits your best QOL, then great. My definition of QOL with my family is a bit more broadly defined as the most total time at home with my family per month.

I’m not sure who you’re trying to convince here..... My QOL is unparalleled by anyone at Delta. I block between 5.5-7 hours nearly every time I come to work with a duty day roughly 2 hours more than scheduled block. I sleep in my bed every night and I either send my kids off to school or see them when they get home.....every day.

If being home nightly, working 12-13 days a month flying 2, sometimes 4 legs per day, and blocking high 90s most months is a “narrow” definition of QOL, then I’ll take my narrow definition and run with it.

DoubleUp686
02-13-2018, 09:19 AM
I'm a relatively young guy at Allegiant, but I have little to zero temptation to go to Delta after I did the long term calculations. I think most people would agree that 18 days off per month is a great schedule. If you had 18 days off per month every month for 30 years that would still mean that you are gone for 12.25 years. It's probably safe to assume that you will spend more like 13-14 out of 30 years away from home if you're lucky.

The industry has us trained to think 4 days away from home isn't a long time, and 18 days off a month is the pinnacle of QOL, but it still equates to a significant amount of time away from family. If you ask most people at the end of their career if they would sacrifice a cumulative 13 years away from their families for an extra $1M they would probably say "No".

WhiskeyDelta
02-13-2018, 10:38 AM
Iím not sure who youíre trying to convince here..... My QOL is unparalleled by anyone at Delta. I block between 5.5-7 hours nearly every time I come to work with a duty day roughly 2 hours more than scheduled block. I sleep in my bed every night and I either send my kids off to school or see them when they get home.....every day.

If being home nightly, working 12-13 days a month flying 2, sometimes 4 legs per day, and blocking high 90s most months is a ďnarrowĒ definition of QOL, then Iíll take my narrow definition and run with it.


Careful making blanket statements like ďmy QOL is unparalleled by anyone at Delta.Ē Thatís not true, frankly. We have several fleets and bases that provide that. In some cases, it's one leg and a DH back or vice versa to Caribbean crediting around 9 hours. Yes, we may not have as high of a percentage of those trips as Allegiant, but we do have our share of them.

JustWatching
02-13-2018, 06:25 PM
Careful making blanket statements like ďmy QOL is unparalleled by anyone at Delta.Ē Thatís not true, frankly. We have several fleets and bases that provide that. In some cases, it's one leg and a DH back or vice versa to Caribbean crediting around 9 hours. Yes, we may not have as high of a percentage of those trips as Allegiant, but we do have our share of them.

QOL at Allegiant is unparalleled to Delta with the exception of the very few that can hold day trips. Donít get me wrong.... Iím not advocating anyone come to Allegiant over Delta. Delta offers a retirement package that Allegiant pilots can only dream about, but if you live in base and enjoy spending time at home, you will not find that anywhere else from the top all the way to the bottom.

sqwkvfr
02-13-2018, 07:54 PM
Careful making blanket statements like “my QOL is unparalleled by anyone at Delta.” That’s not true, frankly. We have several fleets and bases that provide that. In some cases, it's one leg and a DH back or vice versa to Caribbean crediting around 9 hours. Yes, we may not have as high of a percentage of those trips as Allegiant, but we do have our share of them.

If your seniority can hold it and you are lucky enough to get assigned the right aircraft out of training, sure.....but you know as well as I do that those are very big “ifs.”

Delta’s bases aren’t exactly awesome. I can’t imagine commuting or moving to DTW, LGA, MSP, SEA or ATL. None of those places trip my trigger and the thought of commuting again is enough for me to give serious consideration to getting out of 121 flying for good.

Now, if you’ll scroll back a few posts, you’ll see that I told the OP to go to Delta, so i’m not hating on anyone here, but considering most of my friends think that I either don’t work or have a part-time job and that we have several pilots who bypassed recall to AA because of the lifestyle offered here, I’d have to say that we’re not wrong making such bold statements, at least generally.

UGBSM
02-14-2018, 01:02 PM
Iím not sure who youíre trying to convince here..... My QOL is unparalleled by anyone at Delta. I block between 5.5-7 hours nearly every time I come to work with a duty day roughly 2 hours more than scheduled block. I sleep in my bed every night and I either send my kids off to school or see them when they get home.....every day.

If being home nightly, working 12-13 days a month flying 2, sometimes 4 legs per day, and blocking high 90s most months is a ďnarrowĒ definition of QOL, then Iíll take my narrow definition and run with it.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything except to point out that the exact schedule you describe is available to pilots at Delta too. And at far better pay and benefits.

I personally fly short 2 leg one or two day trips in and out of Atlanta. The "day trips" , which we call turns, pays 5:15 for as little as an hour (or less) of block time. The two day trips pay 10:30 for the same but with a short layover involved.

My favourite is one leg to CHA, a short layover, and a deadhead home.

It is 23 minutes flying time to Chattanooga, my wife picks me up at the CHA airport and we drive about an hour and 15 minutes back home and I'm done. Pays 10:30 ($2600) and Im gone from home a total of about four hours from when I left. I've done it many times, sometimes on a double pay greenslip for over $5000. Not counting the additional profit sharing and 401k inputs and this is on Delta's lowest paying aircraft.

Ispeakjive
02-14-2018, 05:21 PM
Delta or Allegiant? Hmmm....

TransWorld
02-14-2018, 07:32 PM
Assume the ring is where you hook your finger. That way, when you plug it in, you can verify the current is flowing at that very first instance. Very smart of them!!

contrails
02-14-2018, 09:34 PM
Iím not sure who youíre trying to convince here..... My QOL is unparalleled by anyone at Delta. I block between 5.5-7 hours nearly every time I come to work with a duty day roughly 2 hours more than scheduled block. I sleep in my bed every night and I either send my kids off to school or see them when they get home.....every day.

If being home nightly, working 12-13 days a month flying 2, sometimes 4 legs per day, and blocking high 90s most months is a ďnarrowĒ definition of QOL, then Iíll take my narrow definition and run with it.

Your unparalleled thing is a little off.

I've credited 150hrs the past two months and blocked 1.2 hours.

Baradium
02-14-2018, 09:43 PM
QOL at Allegiant is unparalleled to Delta with the exception of the very few that can hold day trips. Don’t get me wrong.... I’m not advocating anyone come to Allegiant over Delta. Delta offers a retirement package that Allegiant pilots can only dream about, but if you live in base and enjoy spending time at home, you will not find that anywhere else from the top all the way to the bottom.

The bottom is a long way to go. There are lots of small outfits that only do day trips. Look at any of the local Alaska carriers for an example.

At this point it feels just like moving goalposts. Are you talking about the credit per month to say that pay is better than the rates make it appear?

KC135
02-15-2018, 09:56 AM
The bottom line is that DAL has some day trips but it will take at least a decade or 2 to hold a full month of them in the left seat on the most junior equipment in most domiciles.


Here is a more realistic thread on DAL QOL from their own.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/111399-living-base-typical-schedule.html

Baradium
02-15-2018, 10:33 AM
The bottom line is that DAL has some day trips but it will take at least a decade or 2 to hold a full month of them in the left seat on the most junior equipment in most domiciles.


Here is a more realistic thread on DAL QOL from their own.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/111399-living-base-typical-schedule.html

I don't think that's a fair statement either. I don't think being left seat really belongs in the QOL discussion since there are right seaters at Delta making more. And considering the amount of retirements due, the timeline isn't realistic for left seat anyway.

I will give you that it sounds easy to have day trips only at Allegiant, just there's no need to add more qualifiers.

KC135
02-15-2018, 11:17 AM
I don't think that's a fair statement either. I don't think being left seat really belongs in the QOL discussion since there are right seaters at Delta making more. And considering the amount of retirements due, the timeline isn't realistic for left seat anyway.

I will give you that it sounds easy to have day trips only at Allegiant, just there's no need to add more qualifiers.

It's completely fair when UGBSM post pay for a left seat trip yet does not site the fact that it takes a very long time to hold a month of all day trips in that seat. If we're going to compare QOL we need to disclose both sides of the coin for both seats. There are 8+ year FO's at the top 15% in base not holding any day trips. This may seem obvious to most but some people reading this thread might not realize that day trips at DAL are rare and senior after reading some of your coworkers post above.

JustWatching
02-15-2018, 12:11 PM
Your unparalleled thing is a little off.

I've credited 150hrs the past two months and blocked 1.2 hours.

Youíre completely missing my point. Sure, a few of you can have great schedules. A few being a small percentage of your pilot group. Everyone all Allegiant can have a great schedule by living in base. All Iím saying is that we offer a much larger percentage of our collective groups the ability to be home every night.

You can argue the point all day long if youíd like..... and congratulations on crediting 150 hours on 1.2 block. Pretty damn impressive! You can buy the beer should we ever meet!

JustWatching
02-15-2018, 12:14 PM
The bottom is a long way to go. There are lots of small outfits that only do day trips. Look at any of the local Alaska carriers for an example.

At this point it feels just like moving goalposts. Are you talking about the credit per month to say that pay is better than the rates make it appear?

Iím not talking about credit per month nor am I trying to get into a ****ing contest here. I like being home every single night. I can do that here. The bottom FO in base can also do that. Simple as that.

80ktsClamp
02-15-2018, 12:14 PM
I've done a MIA out and back so far this month. The beard is getting a little bit itchy....

ecam
02-15-2018, 12:41 PM
I bet a Delta doesn't accidentally overpay hundreds of pilots, then reverse the entire direct deposit without a replacement, leaving them without a paycheck.

Just another massive f up on a long list from one of the most incompetent management teams in the business.

A year ago, we had really turned a corner and things were going great. We were operating like a real airline. Then Jude left and we are back to incompetence and penny wise/dollar foolish shenanigans.

Maybe it's time the investors get involved.

Troy
02-15-2018, 01:06 PM
I've done a MIA out and back so far this month. The beard is getting a little bit itchy....

Is that the norm for most there? Does G4 not have reserve also or whatís the point youíre making here?

dutch rudder
02-15-2018, 01:07 PM
Funny that pilots who leave claim itís the best decision they made, yet pilots who stay/bypass claim itís the best decision they made. Every individual is able to justify his or her decision. This just indicates that the decision is personal and not measurable by any one manís standard.

I have justified staying hereÖ for now. Iíve seen schedules from friends at legacies and other carriers and they donít even come close. I get 19-21 days off EVERY month with decent credit and I can drop trips on top of that if I desire. So when I see comments like ďruuun,Ē or Eagleatr says he gets more QOL and 16-18 days off at United, I chuckle. To those who declare their airline has day turns too: Remember, day turns are the rule at Allegiant, not the exception.

That being said, I recognize I was hired at the beginning of a wave. I can guess my lifestyle isnít the standard for someone starting 2nd year, especially since hiring has slowed during transition. My lifestyle might be base specific. So if everyone doesnít share my enthusiasm, I understand. To each his own!

Buford
02-15-2018, 01:23 PM
I had an impending class date at Allegiant when Delta called me for an interview. I've now been at Delta for a little shy of a year and feel I've made the right choice.

Allegiant seems like a decent company flying under the radar with a surprisingly good quality of life for its pilots. It felt to me, however, that G4 is a one trick pony. The main benefit to G4 is being home every night and that's a heck of a benefit. The problem is- will that last? I'm now on my fifth airline and something I can say with certainty is that companies are never static. It only takes one market change, one CEO change, one black swan event to turn everything on its head. The arrival of shiny new Airbus's are nice, but those things are expensive and they need to be flown. Parking an old maddog for half the week works for a paid for airplane, but an entire fleet of planes with their large lease payments won't allow for lots of sitting around. I suspect with time it will occur to G4 management that the 'no overnight' business model won't always work. Once that happens, all lifestyle advantages of G4 over other carriers evaporate.

I think it'd be a mistake to to pin an entire career married to a company based on a single concept. Ultimately pay, benefits, and long term stability really ought to be the only consideration for most people, and Delta really wins out in those categories. I can see how G4 is working for some folks, but I really think DL is a better choice for the vast majority. Just my read on things.....

dutch rudder
02-15-2018, 02:25 PM
Ultimately pay, benefits, and long term stability really ought to be the only consideration for most people

Are those really the only considerations? What about watching your kids grow up? Or not missing a single recital, baseball game, or holiday? Or sleeping next to my wife every night (healthy marriage)? Those are considerations for me!

Sounds to me like pay, bennies, and stability are your only considerations :)

theycallmered
02-15-2018, 02:28 PM
With the exception of a few pairings, why would the company want to change our model to include a bunch of overnights? Those hotels cost money.

eagleatr
02-15-2018, 03:00 PM
Airplanes cost money too, and they have to be used to make money. I think once the transition to all Airbus is complete, you'll start to see overnights.

Will there be a lot? No one on here can answer that question. Everyone will just have to wait and see.

For me, I know I made the right choice. I don't have the mechanical issues, training issues, pay issues, scheduling issues, or dispatch issues that one on there. It's been a pleasant change.

Burton78
02-15-2018, 03:12 PM
I had an impending class date at Allegiant when Delta called me for an interview. I've now been at Delta for a little shy of a year and feel I've made the right choice.



Allegiant seems like a decent company flying under the radar with a surprisingly good quality of life for its pilots. It felt to me, however, that G4 is a one trick pony. The main benefit to G4 is being home every night and that's a heck of a benefit. The problem is- will that last? I'm now on my fifth airline and something I can say with certainty is that companies are never static. It only takes one market change, one CEO change, one black swan event to turn everything on its head. The arrival of shiny new Airbus's are nice, but those things are expensive and they need to be flown. Parking an old maddog for half the week works for a paid for airplane, but an entire fleet of planes with their large lease payments won't allow for lots of sitting around. I suspect with time it will occur to G4 management that the 'no overnight' business model won't always work. Once that happens, all lifestyle advantages of G4 over other carriers evaporate.



I think it'd be a mistake to to pin an entire career married to a company based on a single concept. Ultimately pay, benefits, and long term stability really ought to be the only consideration for most people, and Delta really wins out in those categories. I can see how G4 is working for some folks, but I really think DL is a better choice for the vast majority. Just my read on things.....


Nice post. When I read this thread, all I see is self justification for staying at G4 parroting the same tired mantra that "I'm home every night." When that changes, what are you left with?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ebl14
02-15-2018, 04:55 PM
Are those really the only considerations? What about watching your kids grow up? Or not missing a single recital, baseball game, or holiday? Or sleeping next to my wife every night (healthy marriage)? Those are considerations for me!

Sounds to me like pay, bennies, and stability are your only considerations :)

Actually, when I was considering staying or going this was one of the big reasons I decided to go. With 100% fly days, your only option to hold some days off are vacation or a sick call.

As you said earlier, this decision hinges largely on what part of the list you landed on during the Allegiant expansion. In my case, I was in the 600ís. I figured the company would grow to about 1000 pilots before the next merger, which historically, would lump me in with comparable FOs at the new dancing partner. This seniority was not worth keeping. If you are a 2-300... different story. Hard to walk away from that.

sqwkvfr
02-15-2018, 06:23 PM
I bet a Delta doesn't accidentally overpay hundreds of pilots, then reverse the entire direct deposit without a replacement, leaving them without a paycheck.

Just another massive f up on a long list from one of the most incompetent management teams in the business.

A year ago, we had really turned a corner and things were going great. We were operating like a real airline. Then Jude left and we are back to incompetence and penny wise/dollar foolish shenanigans.

Maybe it's time the investors get involved.

See, now THIS is a legitamite gripe. Well done. I canít agree more that this stuff is out of hand. I still canít believe that they promoted that woman.

crxpilot
02-15-2018, 07:26 PM
With the exception of a few pairings, why would the company want to change our model to include a bunch of overnights? Those hotels cost money.

If an extra section is created to accommodate the overnight then its still a profit, albeit a lower one, and the cost of doing business.

UGBSM
02-15-2018, 07:36 PM
It's completely fair when UGBSM post pay for a left seat trip yet does not site the fact that it takes a very long time to hold a month of all day trips in that seat. If we're going to compare QOL we need to disclose both sides of the coin for both seats. There are 8+ year FO's at the top 15% in base not holding any day trips. This may seem obvious to most but some people reading this thread might not realize that day trips at DAL are rare and senior after reading some of your coworkers post above.

Well yes, generally you do need to be pretty senior at Delta to get a month of day trips if that is what you want. You are probably right about that. Im just pointing out that they are available.

Frankly I think most at DAL are not interested in flying nothing but day trips. There are lots of other types of lifestyles to bid for. To each his own.

Although it does sound a bit like the most senior at Allegiant pretty much get the same trips that the most junior get. Where's the fun in that?

ecam
02-16-2018, 07:19 AM
Although it does sound a bit like the most senior at Allegiant pretty much get the same trips that the most junior get. Where's the fun in that?

That's not necessarily true. All (most) trips are day trips, but there's still a lot of variety. Some pilots like morning, some like evenings. Some like long flights with high block (and more days off per month), some want to do more short round trips and be done for the day. We have some 4 leg trips. Senior people here get to do what they want and junior people here get the leftovers. So seniority still means something, and people do move up much faster here than the big airlines.

KC135
02-16-2018, 10:03 AM
Actually, when I was considering staying or going this was one of the big reasons I decided to go. With 100% fly days, your only option to hold some days off are vacation or a sick call.


Seems legit. I can see exactly how that conversation went down...


Wife "Are you going to make little Johnny's football game tonight?"

Honey, you know July is a busy month and today is one of the few must work days so I have to go in later this afternoon and work a turn.

Wife "Uhhh! I'm not mad, just disappointed. What can you do to fix this?"

Well, if I take this legacy job offer I can always get whatever days off I need and I'll only have to spend a little less than 1/2 the month living in hotels.

Wife "Wow, that sounds like a great idea. I'll start packing for Detroit."

eagleatr
02-16-2018, 10:36 AM
Seems legit. I can see exactly how that conversation went down...


Wife "Are you going to make little Johnny's football game tonight?"

Honey, you know July is a busy month and today is one of the few must work days so I have to go in later this afternoon and work a turn.

Wife "Uhhh! I'm not mad, just disappointed. What can you do to fix this?"

Well, if I take this legacy job offer I can always get whatever days off I need and I'll only have to spend a little less than 1/2 the month living in hotels.

Wife "Wow, that sounds like a great idea. I'll start packing for Detroit."

Funny, when I had the conversation with my wife, it didn't go anything like that.

ebl14
02-16-2018, 10:38 AM
Seems legit. I can see exactly how that conversation went down...


Wife "Are you going to make little Johnny's football game tonight?"

Honey, you know July is a busy month and today is one of the few must work days so I have to go in later this afternoon and work a turn.

Wife "Uhhh! I'm not mad, just disappointed. What can you do to fix this?"

Well, if I take this legacy job offer I can always get whatever days off I need and I'll only have to spend a little less than 1/2 the month living in hotels.

Wife "Wow, that sounds like a great idea. I'll start packing for Detroit."

Actually it went more like this:

ďEvery month there are a handful of days that NOBODY will get off. If the kids event, friends wedding, other canít miss event happens on one of these days there is no way to hold it off, ethically.Ē

Ask a pilot from ANY other airline if there are 100% fly days. They will look at you like youíre from another planet.

Also, when we ďpacked our bagsĒ, it was to go back home to where we are both from and have support from family. Allegiant forced us to move to a base (since commuting is not a viable option) away from friends and family. Obviously this is a case by case scenario, but thatís how it went for me.

I still think Allegiant is a great gig, just not the best for me personally. I wish you all the very best.

wilco811
02-16-2018, 11:08 AM
Different strokes for different folks. Some people are tired of staying in hotels even for "only" half the month. For me G4 is great with the day trips. The secret of course is to live in base. I have no desire to eat overpriced breakfasts alone at Hiltons for 1/3 of the year even if I get paid more. At G4, depending on the base you can do 17 days off with 90+ credit hours which is pretty awesome and still be home for dinner. I have many friends at DL too who love it there making a ton of money on the wb as FO with great QOLs. Delta has much better benefits of course for travel, profit sharing etc but some choose to be home every night because in the end G4 pay is actually pretty decent. It is simply a matter of preference. Some people love the fact that they work for a "legacy" airline because that is important to them. Some people do it for the hat. The great thing is no matter where you go things are great.

disco inferno
02-16-2018, 11:21 AM
Funny, when I had the conversation with my wife, it didn't go anything like that.
Nobody here cares about what you think.

tom11011
02-16-2018, 12:31 PM
I didn't come to Allegiant for the money, everyone knows that going in. I came for the quality of life. At last count I think we had 13 pilot domiciles to choose from, some large, some smaller, some in very nice places. It is no secret the larger bases have the best schedules.

I have always commuted to work when working for the regionals, never lived in base. It is hard to describe what it is like living in base now and not doing overnights. Its a huge plus with the family and just doing normal people things every day. Should Allegiant decide to change all that one day, then in my eyes there is no longer any reason to stay here. I'm not saying I would be against doing an occasional overnight here and there, and sometimes we do because of a maintenance issue, but I wouldn't accept overnights as the norm here.

Right now, I am a fairly senior FO. I could upgrade and be on the bottom of the list, but I am not going to do that for a while. I get everything I want scheduling wise. I am always off on the weekends, at least a 3 day sometimes a 4 weekend. I get some of the highest credit trips for very efficient scheduling, there is no sitting around and no deadheading for line holders. When my schedule is published, I usually have 18 days off and then sometimes I just drop trips and only work 10 days per month.

So in summary, I guess its all about what you think quality of life is for you. I'm in my mid to upper 40s so my viewpoint might be much different. If you are in your early to mid 30s, I would think about leaving though.

In the end, none of us can really see much more than 1 year into the future, that is the way its always been.

eagleatr
02-16-2018, 01:11 PM
Nobody here cares about what you think.

That's ok. I don't care what you think either. :p

JustWatching
02-16-2018, 04:31 PM
Some of you guys are funny..... just wait.. one CEO change.. one this or one that...

Look..60 consecutive quarterly profits. Same basic business plan. Can we fail... sure.

I wish everyone luck. You are no more or less insulated from furlough than we are... in fact, we may be better off during an event than you guys are.

Sliceback
02-17-2018, 05:40 AM
Seems legit. I can see exactly how that conversation went down...


Wife "Are you going to make little Johnny's football game tonight?"

Honey, you know July is a busy month and today is one of the few must work days so I have to go in later this afternoon and work a turn.

Wife "Uhhh! I'm not mad, just disappointed. What can you do to fix this?"

Well, if I take this legacy job offer I can always get whatever days off I need and I'll only have to spend a little less than 1/2 the month living in hotels.

Wife "Wow, that sounds like a great idea. I'll start packing for Detroit."

Little John has a game a week, at most two in other sports.

At 60% relative seniority at AA I coached two days a week, and had a game a week, for three months. Missed one game in two years.

But getting turns is tough. They go senior but you can try trading for the few that pop open. Two day trips are much easier to hold but some of them are the early/late dept/arrival types of trips.

And you’ll probably spend 8-10 nights away. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Looking at the pay difference you’ll get paid roughly $700 a night to be away.

Based on current hiring, linked to retirements, it’s one year to reach 50% at the junior FO n/b base at AA. Two yrs gets the second most junior base, 2.3 yrs gets the third base, 3.5 yrs gets you the fourth most junior base. Or you can bid rsv and be about the top 30% of reserves. Getting one day off a week shouldn’t be a problem.

Looking at the pay charts on APC the value of each year in dollars(plus retirement) can be estimated -

1. 60 Vs. 85
2. 120. Vs 170
3. 130. Vs. 200
4. 135. Vs. 205

Total. 445. Vs. 660.

Guys make difference decisions but reasonable data, and expectations, can help the decision making process.

hyde
02-17-2018, 10:40 AM
Beat it punk. This is a DL vs AAY pi$$ing contest, go start your own AA vs AAY d1ck measuring thread.

This is a non-gender specific pi$$ing match. Let's keep it pc

Swedish Blender
02-18-2018, 08:06 PM
Just thought I'd drive by and look in.

To think I could be the #1 captain in PIE if I would've just said yes...

crxpilot
02-19-2018, 12:27 AM
Just thought I'd drive by and look in.

To think I could be the #1 captain in PIE if I would've just said yes...

You would have had to say yes over 13 years ago.

Swedish Blender
02-20-2018, 07:40 AM
You would have had to say yes over 13 years ago.

It was in 04.

flyingdutchman1
02-20-2018, 08:10 AM
It was in 04.

Out of curiosity, do you wish you would have gone to Allegiant or are you happy with your choice? I talked to a lot of the furloughed American guys that came here and had to make a choice, go back and be junior or stay super senior at Allegiant. Some stayed and some went back.

Captainbfv
02-22-2018, 09:27 AM
You can argue the point all day long if you’d like..... and congratulations on crediting 150 hours on 1.2 block. Pretty damn impressive! You can buy the beer should we ever meet!



This kind of “played the system” non-sense is the first * to go when the company wises up about how much money it spends on non productive employees. [emoji23]

Bragging about being an unproductive * is a new low hahaha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Swedish Blender
02-22-2018, 02:01 PM
Out of curiosity, do you wish you would have gone to Allegiant or are you happy with your choice? I talked to a lot of the furloughed American guys that came here and had to make a choice, go back and be junior or stay super senior at Allegiant. Some stayed and some went back.

No, I'm glad I didn't go to Allegiant. Just not my cup of tea from a long term standpoint. Made the similar choice in the late 90s at a STL airline.

contrails
02-22-2018, 09:08 PM
This kind of “played the system” non-sense is the first sh** to go when the company wises up about how much money it spends on non productive employees. [emoji23]

Bragging about being an unproductive @$$hole is a new low hahaha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, it's called being senior on reserve in a properly staffed category during the slow months of the year.

It's not going to be the first thing to go and nobody is going to wise up, because when the block hours surge up after spring break and again in May through Labor Day, it'll be time to bid a line again when reserve is busy because suddenly, they're running out of reserves every day.

But four months a year of easy reserve duty is a nice way to spend a third of the year if staffing is good within a category.

It's nice to have options. And to go two months without a landing.

KC135
02-24-2018, 04:12 PM
No, it's called being senior on reserve in a properly staffed category during the slow months of the year.

It's not going to be the first thing to go and nobody is going to wise up, because when the block hours surge up after spring break and again in May through Labor Day, it'll be time to bid a line again when reserve is busy because suddenly, they're running out of reserves every day.

But four months a year of easy reserve duty is a nice way to spend a third of the year if staffing is good within a category.

It's nice to have options. And to go two months without a landing.

That sounds like a downgrade in QOL from G4.

Burton78
02-24-2018, 04:27 PM
That sounds like a downgrade in QOL from G4.



I don't know, the $40k+ check most of their captains received earlier this Month for Profit Sharing alone surely might add a slight improvement to their QOL.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

contrails
02-24-2018, 09:20 PM
That sounds like a downgrade in QOL from G4.

Nah, not at all.

Troy
02-25-2018, 08:13 AM
Nah, not at all.

Lol you are in denial. An airline with 95% muti-day trips does not have better overal QOL than an airline with 99.9% 1 day trips, period.

contrails
02-25-2018, 09:19 AM
Lol you are in denial. An airline with 95% muti-day trips does not have better overal QOL than an airline with 99.9% 1 day trips, period.

I'm happy that it makes you laugh out loud that I am supposedly in denial but I assure you the QOL evens out. Payback days, long call reserve for a big chunk of the year, other stuff...it's QOL even.

Daytrip lines published is one thing, but the ability to drop one's schedule and pickup daytrips as they materialize throughout the month is something you have likely not considered. It's quite easy to do this.

crxpilot
02-25-2018, 11:31 AM
Quite possibly, maybe, people can be happy in both places for their own reasons? Is it really necessary to do the impossible of convincing one another that ďmy job is better than yoursĒ?

BlueSkiesAhead
02-25-2018, 02:06 PM
Quite possibly, maybe, people can be happy in both places for their own reasons? Is it really necessary to do the impossible of convincing one another that ďmy job is better than yoursĒ?

Come on now, you canít be trying to bring any common sense into this argument! These guys are determined to convince the other that they have the greatest thing going on since sliced bread.

The reality is that one manís trash is another manís treasure. Donít assume that what works for you will automatically work for everyone. Do whatís best for you and try to enjoy life a little bit. Thatís my take on it anyway.

Andy
03-01-2018, 06:41 PM
My, how times have changed. It wasnít that long ago that I read of Allegiant pilots getting moved from base to base, depending on the season. Now uncommutable day trips are a feature rather than a liability and pilots are actually debating whether or not to turn down Delta? Wow. Just wow.

wilco811
03-01-2018, 07:50 PM
My, how times have changed. It wasnít that long ago that I read of Allegiant pilots getting moved from base to base, depending on the season. Now uncommutable day trips are a feature rather than a liability and pilots are actually debating whether or not to turn down Delta? Wow. Just wow.

The folks who are staying at Allegiant are most likely not commuters so the "uncommutable day trips" are actually pleasant day out and back trips which get you home each night. This schedule is one of the main reasons why Allegiant is popular to some folks and in their eyes a better gig than flying at DL. Commuting and Allegiant don't go well together although there are folks who make it work and are content. Like I said before it's just a matter of personal choice. They are both great jobs.

KC135
03-01-2018, 07:56 PM
My, how times have changed. It wasnít that long ago that I read of Allegiant pilots getting moved from base to base, depending on the season. Now uncommutable day trips are a feature rather than a liability and pilots are actually debating whether or not to turn down Delta? Wow. Just wow.

It's interesting that you bring that up since DAL now has virtual basing also. I would hope that people don't target an airline with all day trips for long term commuting.

Baradium
03-01-2018, 08:25 PM
It's interesting that you bring that up since DAL now has virtual basing also. I would hope that people don't target an airline with all day trips for long term commuting.

You mean the temporary test that hasn't been implemented and might not ever be? It's probably going to expire before they ever do anything at this point.

sailingfun
03-02-2018, 05:36 AM
It's interesting that you bring that up since DAL now has virtual basing also. I would hope that people don't target an airline with all day trips for long term commuting.

The virtual basing at Delta is vastly different. Paid flights to and from base, per diem, hotels and itís 100% strickly voluntary. In addition the union can shut it down anytime they want. The company has now had it for two years. Number of pilots virtually based so far? Zero.

ridinhigh
03-06-2018, 07:16 PM
Both great jobs, thatís a good one



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1