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freakwentflyin
02-02-2018, 04:04 PM
Is Envoy counting 135 PIC time with <10 seats?

I've heard very mixed info on this.

Some are saying 1,000 hours of 135.243 jet time counts, some are saying only 10+ seats, some have said the wording is turboJET, not turbofan. Anyone have a concrete answer? I'm interested in the new $45k PIC bonus program they are recently offering, but there seems to be a grey area of if I qualify (currently an 8 seat midsize 135 captain).

While I'm in here, if I do indeed qualify, how long would it be in average before I can hold reserve or line at DFW? ORD is my second choice, but I understand that I'd likely get LGA for at least some time and would stay Junior captain for quite some time as F.O.'s who are upgrading would hold seniority over me.

Guys/gals, I apologize if I don't know all the 121 lingo. It's much more cut and dry 135. Any quality insight would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


bigtime209
02-02-2018, 04:12 PM
Is Envoy counting 135 PIC time with <10 seats?

I've heard very mixed info on this.

Some are saying 1,000 hours of 135.243 jet time counts, some are saying only 10+ seats, some have said the wording is turboJET, not turbofan. Anyone have a concrete answer? I'm interested in the new $45k PIC bonus program they are recently offering, but there seems to be a grey area of if I qualify (currently an 8 seat midsize 135 captain).

While I'm in here, if I do indeed qualify, how long would it be in average before I can hold reserve or line at DFW? ORD is my second choice, but I understand that I'd likely get LGA for at least some time and would stay Junior captain for quite some time as F.O.'s who are upgrading would hold seniority over me.

Guys/gals, I apologize if I don't know all the 121 lingo. It's much more cut and dry 135. Any quality insight would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Regardless of what kind of 135 time counts for the upgrade requirement, the $45k is only for prior 121 guys.

Sheg0theD
02-02-2018, 04:15 PM
They won’t consider previous 135. Last I heard was 700 121 and clean record.

To answer your other question..

121.436 will tell you the different times that qualify.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/135.243#a_1


This is a FAR not a company specific requirement.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


highfarfast
02-02-2018, 04:15 PM
Is Envoy counting 135 PIC time with <10 seats?

I've heard very mixed info on this.

Some are saying 1,000 hours of 135.243 jet time counts, some are saying only 10+ seats, some have said the wording is turboJET, not turbofan. Anyone have a concrete answer? I'm interested in the new $45k PIC bonus program they are recently offering, but there seems to be a grey area of if I qualify (currently an 8 seat midsize 135 captain).

While I'm in here, if I do indeed qualify, how long would it be in average before I can hold reserve or line at DFW? ORD is my second choice, but I understand that I'd likely get LGA for at least some time and would stay Junior captain for quite some time as F.O.'s who are upgrading would hold seniority over me.

Guys/gals, I apologize if I don't know all the 121 lingo. It's much more cut and dry 135. Any quality insight would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

I believe Envoy’s HVA bonus is for prior 121 only. However, I do think your prior 135 would count for upgrade purposes (without going and looking up the reg). If you came to Envoy, expect to be in LGA on reserve for a very long time. Not because you couldn’t hold DFW as an FO on a near vacancy bid, but because you’ll be forced to upgrade on a near displacement bid. I’ve been hear over a year and would be quite senior to you when looking at all the hires between when I was hired and now and I can’t hold DFW CA right now myself.

Edit: I’m curious as to what someone like you expect to gain by coming to Envoy right now.

SactisbonesBJ
02-02-2018, 04:50 PM
It does not count toward upgrade

freakwentflyin
02-02-2018, 05:33 PM
I believe Envoy’s HVA bonus is for prior 121 only. However, I do think your prior 135 would count for upgrade purposes (without going and looking up the reg). If you came to Envoy, expect to be in LGA on reserve for a very long time. Not because you couldn’t hold DFW as an FO on a near vacancy bid, but because you’ll be forced to upgrade on a near displacement bid. I’ve been hear over a year and would be quite senior to you when looking at all the hires between when I was hired and now and I can’t hold DFW CA right now myself.

Edit: I’m curious as to what someone like you expect to gain by coming to Envoy right now.

Thank you for the feedback (and everyone else who gave feedback too). That was quality info and sorta what I'm starting to figure out is that a forced upgrade really isn't beneficial for me if I'm not interested in LGA.

As far as what I expect to gain, here's where I stand. I have about 4200TT, 3000 PIC, 1000 Jet PIC, 2900 Multi. I've had my apps in at the 4 big guys (AAL, Delta, UAL, SWA) and I'm not getting any bites. I'm going to start going to more recruitment events soon. In the meantime I'm trying to find specific airlines that can gain me 121 experience. I currently work in the midwest and reside reasonable driving distance to ORD, but my wife is going to be getting a promotion/transfer to Austin, TX. My goal is to find an airline that I can hold reserve/line in east Texas (DFW, HOU). In other words, an easy commute. I have places to crash in both those cities for free if I am short call reserve. AKA, if I'm going to take a significant pay cut, I don't want to add living expenses to the bill. I do, however value QOL almost over pay so the long commuting not getting paid is a detractor for me if it's long term. I certainly don't mind paying my dues if I must, but I'm just trying to be well informed.

My ultimate goal has always been AAL as I'm from Charlotte and will eventually want to move back there (I'd like to do that within a decade). I've considered PSA too, but it's almost the same deal as Envoy it seams, or close enough to it being another wholly owned.

Spirit also seems to be a potential fit too with holding DFW, but they are in the middle of their TA negotiations too. I'd like to see how that pans out.

FYI, my timeframe for making the jump to 121 is this summer. I'm just trying to come up with the best plan of action I should take.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm new to APC and it's chock full of great info, good and bad!

freakwentflyin
02-02-2018, 05:38 PM
They won’t consider previous 135. Last I heard was 700 121 and clean record.

To answer your other question..

121.436 will tell you the different times that qualify.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/135.243#a_1


This is a FAR not a company specific requirement.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I've read 121.436 and deduced that my 135.243 time should count, but I've been told some companies seem to count it, and some don't. It appears from what others have answered that the $45k thing is not something I qualify for, so I'd be getting the $22k, but no 2nd year bonus if they do indeed count my 135 PIC time and force my upgrade. From how it sounds, it appears I wouldn't make much more being a PIC right away come second year.

Thanks for your reply

freakwentflyin
02-02-2018, 05:41 PM
It does not count toward upgrade

do you have specific info on why it doesn't? This is where I'm confused because I will get one like you that says it doesn't, and one or two that says it does. And then another who interprets the FAR's that it should, but not clearly defined. Any concrete info would be helpful!

Thanks for replying

inky13
02-02-2018, 05:57 PM
do you have specific info on why it doesn't? This is where I'm confused because I will get one like you that says it doesn't, and one or two that says it does. And then another who interprets the FAR's that it should, but not clearly defined. Any concrete info would be helpful!

Thanks for replying

You're specifically asking about this:
§ 135.243 Pilot in command (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=9bea86d825b449adc9822c8063396f13&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:135: Subpart:E:135.243) qualifications.
(a) No certificate holder may use a person (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=24a80ca42ed148d527b7ddad982da95a&term_occur=2&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:135: Subpart:E:135.243), nor may any person (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=24a80ca42ed148d527b7ddad982da95a&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:135: Subpart:E:135.243) serve, as pilot in command (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=9bea86d825b449adc9822c8063396f13&term_occur=2&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:135: Subpart:E:135.243) in passenger-carrying operations (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=06f430b847add9f5d59ca69c338506d8&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:135: Subpart:E:135.243) -
(1) Of a turbojet airplane (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=ee9803083700896cd85aff74cb4f95ea&term_occur=3&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:135: Subpart:E:135.243), of an airplane (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=ee9803083700896cd85aff74cb4f95ea&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:135: Subpart:E:135.243) having a passenger-seat configuration, excluding each crewmember (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=d3d24a831020443b5f202a681f24e446&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:135: Subpart:E:135.243) seat, of 10 seats or more, or of a multiengine airplane (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=ee9803083700896cd85aff74cb4f95ea&term_occur=2&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:135: Subpart:E:135.243) in a commuter operation (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=12ad5b0854db049414ed25d999bc1fca&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:135: Subpart:E:135.243) as defined in part 119 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/part-119) of this chapter, unless that person (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=24a80ca42ed148d527b7ddad982da95a&term_occur=3&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:135: Subpart:E:135.243) holds an airline transport pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=5e04dbe216da194fe7f0e9b20dcdc53a&term_occur=2&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:135: Subpart:E:135.243) and, if required, an appropriate type rating (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=5e04dbe216da194fe7f0e9b20dcdc53a&term_occur=1&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:135: Subpart:E:135.243) for that airplane (https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=ee9803083700896cd85aff74cb4f95ea&term_occur=4&term_src=Title:14:Chapter:I:Subchapter:G:Part:135: Subpart:E:135.243).


The rule is a list:
1. Turbojet Airplane; or
2. An airplane having a passenger-seat configuration, excluding each crewmember seat, of 10 seats or more; or
3. A multiengine airplane in a commuter operation as defined in part 119....

Therefore, Turbojet Airplane PIC time counts. To me, splitting hairs from turboJET versus turboFAN is ridiculous with regards to the regs as I don't think the intent was to differentiate (or perhaps the rule was written when turboFANs weren't around yet...).

That said, Envoy will not interpret the reg for you. They will leave it up to your professional judgement of whether your time meets that requirement, much like how the FAA views your times on an 8710.

Hope that helps. :)

BTW, if you can get in with Spirit, even with the TA going down right now, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

tm602
02-02-2018, 09:09 PM
So with 650 turboprop PIC all 121 and over 1000 SIC 121 what is a realistic time to upgrade?

bigtime209
02-02-2018, 09:11 PM
So with 650 turboprop PIC all 121 and over 1000 SIC 121 what is a realistic time to upgrade?

Virtually immediately.

tm602
02-02-2018, 09:35 PM
Unbelieveable. I don't suppose DFW is very junior.

bigtime209
02-02-2018, 09:41 PM
Unbelieveable. I don't suppose DFW is very junior.

Definitely not. Most senior base.

tm602
02-02-2018, 09:44 PM
Definitely not. Most senior base.

So assuming a really almost immediate upgrade, what bases are you likely looking at?

bigtime209
02-02-2018, 09:46 PM
So assuming a really almost immediate upgrade, what bases are you likely looking at?

LGA is the most jr. Followed by ORD.

tm602
02-02-2018, 09:54 PM
LGA is the most jr. Followed by ORD.

Oh that's a tough call (neither sound great). Thanks. Things sure have changed for the better in the regional industry.

bigtime209
02-02-2018, 10:08 PM
Oh that's a tough call (neither sound great). Thanks. Things sure have changed for the better in the regional industry.

If you have to go to NY, might as well go to EDV and get paid.

highfarfast
02-03-2018, 02:11 AM
Thank you for the feedback (and everyone else who gave feedback too). That was quality info and sorta what I'm starting to figure out is that a forced upgrade really isn't beneficial for me if I'm not interested in LGA.

As far as what I expect to gain, here's where I stand. I have about 4200TT, 3000 PIC, 1000 Jet PIC, 2900 Multi. I've had my apps in at the 4 big guys (AAL, Delta, UAL, SWA) and I'm not getting any bites. I'm going to start going to more recruitment events soon. In the meantime I'm trying to find specific airlines that can gain me 121 experience. I currently work in the midwest and reside reasonable driving distance to ORD, but my wife is going to be getting a promotion/transfer to Austin, TX. My goal is to find an airline that I can hold reserve/line in east Texas (DFW, HOU). In other words, an easy commute. I have places to crash in both those cities for free if I am short call reserve. AKA, if I'm going to take a significant pay cut, I don't want to add living expenses to the bill. I do, however value QOL almost over pay so the long commuting not getting paid is a detractor for me if it's long term. I certainly don't mind paying my dues if I must, but I'm just trying to be well informed.

My ultimate goal has always been AAL as I'm from Charlotte and will eventually want to move back there (I'd like to do that within a decade). I've considered PSA too, but it's almost the same deal as Envoy it seams, or close enough to it being another wholly owned.

Spirit also seems to be a potential fit too with holding DFW, but they are in the middle of their TA negotiations too. I'd like to see how that pans out.

FYI, my timeframe for making the jump to 121 is this summer. I'm just trying to come up with the best plan of action I should take.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm new to APC and it's chock full of great info, good and bad!

Based on this. If I were in your shoes, I’d be all in on Spirit right now.

AZPilotMike
02-03-2018, 03:37 AM
Thank you for the feedback (and everyone else who gave feedback too). That was quality info and sorta what I'm starting to figure out is that a forced upgrade really isn't beneficial for me if I'm not interested in LGA.

As far as what I expect to gain, here's where I stand. I have about 4200TT, 3000 PIC, 1000 Jet PIC, 2900 Multi. I've had my apps in at the 4 big guys (AAL, Delta, UAL, SWA) and I'm not getting any bites. I'm going to start going to more recruitment events soon. In the meantime I'm trying to find specific airlines that can gain me 121 experience. I currently work in the midwest and reside reasonable driving distance to ORD, but my wife is going to be getting a promotion/transfer to Austin, TX. My goal is to find an airline that I can hold reserve/line in east Texas (DFW, HOU). In other words, an easy commute. I have places to crash in both those cities for free if I am short call reserve. AKA, if I'm going to take a significant pay cut, I don't want to add living expenses to the bill. I do, however value QOL almost over pay so the long commuting not getting paid is a detractor for me if it's long term. I certainly don't mind paying my dues if I must, but I'm just trying to be well informed.

My ultimate goal has always been AAL as I'm from Charlotte and will eventually want to move back there (I'd like to do that within a decade). I've considered PSA too, but it's almost the same deal as Envoy it seams, or close enough to it being another wholly owned.

Spirit also seems to be a potential fit too with holding DFW, but they are in the middle of their TA negotiations too. I'd like to see how that pans out.

FYI, my timeframe for making the jump to 121 is this summer. I'm just trying to come up with the best plan of action I should take.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm new to APC and it's chock full of great info, good and bad!

My understanding is that Spirit sent it to vote and it passed.

ju10489
02-03-2018, 05:55 AM
Thank you for the feedback (and everyone else who gave feedback too). That was quality info and sorta what I'm starting to figure out is that a forced upgrade really isn't beneficial for me if I'm not interested in LGA.

As far as what I expect to gain, here's where I stand. I have about 4200TT, 3000 PIC, 1000 Jet PIC, 2900 Multi. I've had my apps in at the 4 big guys (AAL, Delta, UAL, SWA) and I'm not getting any bites. I'm going to start going to more recruitment events soon. In the meantime I'm trying to find specific airlines that can gain me 121 experience. I currently work in the midwest and reside reasonable driving distance to ORD, but my wife is going to be getting a promotion/transfer to Austin, TX. My goal is to find an airline that I can hold reserve/line in east Texas (DFW, HOU). In other words, an easy commute. I have places to crash in both those cities for free if I am short call reserve. AKA, if I'm going to take a significant pay cut, I don't want to add living expenses to the bill. I do, however value QOL almost over pay so the long commuting not getting paid is a detractor for me if it's long term. I certainly don't mind paying my dues if I must, but I'm just trying to be well informed.

My ultimate goal has always been AAL as I'm from Charlotte and will eventually want to move back there (I'd like to do that within a decade). I've considered PSA too, but it's almost the same deal as Envoy it seams, or close enough to it being another wholly owned.

Spirit also seems to be a potential fit too with holding DFW, but they are in the middle of their TA negotiations too. I'd like to see how that pans out.

FYI, my timeframe for making the jump to 121 is this summer. I'm just trying to come up with the best plan of action I should take.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm new to APC and it's chock full of great info, good and bad!

I wouldn't come to envoy in your situation. If you do come to Envoy, you'll spend a long time in LGA and ORD before you can come back to DFW. You'll also spend a long time on reserve. Commute+reserve at Envoy is the worst combination. Add to that the very low captain pay, and I can almost guarantee you, you'll be miserable!
I bet a lot of these guys won't even stay at Envoy for 9 years to flow.

I agree with Highfarfast, I would go to Spirit or a LCC. Way better pay obviously and great QOL. I'm sure you'll get a call from one of the majors working there, as you'll be working for one of their competitors.
I recently had a jump seater, ex-eagle, now working for spirit. He's about to upgrade, he was telling me most of his classmates got a call from the majors. Also, many of these guys at Spirit are actually super happy there and with the new contract and everything, they wouldn't mind spending the rest of their career there.

Good luck!

bigtime209
02-03-2018, 06:00 AM
My understanding is that Spirit sent it to vote and it passed.

You're understanding is incorrect. It hasn't been voted on yet. But I'd be shocked if it doesn't pass.

AZPilotMike
02-03-2018, 11:39 AM
You're understanding is incorrect. It hasn't been voted on yet. But I'd be shocked if it doesn't pass.

I stand corrected, voting goes until February 28th. I would think it is pretty much a done deal though, 43% pay raise across the board would be hard to turn down.

Fr8Thrust
02-03-2018, 11:42 AM
135.243(a)(1): “...turbojet airplane, of an airplane having a passenger-seat configuration, excluding each crewmember seat, of 10 seats or more, or of a multiengine airplane in a commuter operation as defined in part 119 of this chapter...”

121.436(a)(3): “...1,000 hours as second in command in operations under this part, pilot in command in operations under § 91.1053(a)(2)(i) of this chapter, pilot in command in operations under § 135.243(a)(1) of this chapter, or any combination thereof...”

40 CFR 87.1: “Turbofan engine means a gas turbine engine designed to create its propulsion from exhaust gases and from air that bypasses the combustion process and is accelerated in a ducted space between the inner (core) engine case and the outer engine fan casing.

Turbojet engine means a gas turbine engine that is designed to create all of its propulsion from exhaust gases

Turboprop engine...
Turboshaft engine...”

Hope that helps. Yes, the rules permit a 121 turboprop SIC to advance faster than almost all 135 PICs. Thank you Congress!

inky13
02-04-2018, 11:25 AM
135.243(a)(1): “...turbojet airplane, of an airplane having a passenger-seat configuration, excluding each crewmember seat, of 10 seats or more, or of a multiengine airplane in a commuter operation as defined in part 119 of this chapter...”

121.436(a)(3): “...1,000 hours as second in command in operations under this part, pilot in command in operations under § 91.1053(a)(2)(i) of this chapter, pilot in command in operations under § 135.243(a)(1) of this chapter, or any combination thereof...”

40 CFR 87.1: “Turbofan engine means a gas turbine engine designed to create its propulsion from exhaust gases and from air that bypasses the combustion process and is accelerated in a ducted space between the inner (core) engine case and the outer engine fan casing.

Turbojet engine means a gas turbine engine that is designed to create all of its propulsion from exhaust gases

Turboprop engine...
Turboshaft engine...”

Hope that helps. Yes, the rules permit a 121 turboprop SIC to advance faster than almost all 135 PICs. Thank you Congress!

By your logic, an aircraft would have to meet all of the elements in 135.243(a)(1). I disagree with your interpretation. Your quote left out two very important, albeit short, words at the beginning of 135.243(a)(1), "of a":

“of a turbojet airplane, of an airplane having a passenger-seat configuration, excluding each crewmember seat, of 10 seats or more, or of a multiengine airplane in a commuter operation as defined in part 119 of this chapter...”

Looking at the above now, you'll find that the rule separates out 3 conditions of a type/configuration of aircraft. The "or" is what really clues us in that this is a list of conditions. Moreover, because it is "or" and not an "and", a minimum of one of the conditions must be true for it to count. The "of 10 seats or more" is simply part of the second condition. The "excluding each crewmember seat" is what may be leading to the confusion since it is comma'd out, but that is just setting a condition on what "configuration" means. If you were to ignore it, the paragraph is easier to understand.

Your quote of the turbojet definition comes from 40 CFR, which is the title of CFR's where EPA regulations live. EPA needs to define turbojet from turbofan because the vast difference in their emissions. Many regs say something like "in this chapter", which is the FAA's chapter in 14 CFR. While it is not specifically addressed, I can't imagine that the FAA would restrict pilots in 135 operations because their aircraft has turbofan engines instead of turbojet engines.

So overall, and as an example, a Captain flying the 421 with Cape Air would be able to credit such time towards 121.436(a)(3) because it is a multiengine airplane in a commuter operation as defined in part 119.

Fr8Thrust
02-04-2018, 02:02 PM
Looking at the above now, you'll find that the rule separates out 3 conditions of a type/configuration of aircraft.

My mistake, you are absolutely right—there’s 3 conditions (turbojet, >9 pax, commuter). Thank you.

Your quote of the turbojet definition comes from 40 CFR, which is the title of CFR's where EPA regulations live. EPA needs to define turbojet from turbofan because the vast difference in their emissions. Many regs say something like "in this chapter", which is the FAA's chapter in 14 CFR. While it is not specifically addressed, I can't imagine that the FAA would restrict pilots in 135 operations because their aircraft has turbofan engines instead of turbojet engines.

I couldn’t find another definition in the regs for turbojet in 14 CFR, hense my reference to Title 40.

I want to see the same intent, or spirit-of-the-regulation, because I agree with that statement (turbojet is turbofan), but I couldn’t find any supporting documents.

Fr8Thrust
02-04-2018, 02:25 PM
Inky, as I said before I do agree with you. However, the FAA’s Office of Council published this letter (below), in which they grouped turbojet and 10 or more together. Can someone please phone a lawyer?

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/data/interps/2014/kelley%20-%20(2014)%20legal%20interpretation.pdf

Mustang62
02-04-2018, 03:16 PM
Inky, as I said before I do agree with you. However, the FAA’s Office of Council published this letter (below), in which they grouped turbojet and 10 or more together. Can someone please phone a lawyer?

https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/data/interps/2014/kelley%20-%20(2014)%20legal%20interpretation.pdf

True, but whoever wrote the legal opinion misinterpreted the regulation. Consequently, the FAA issued the following clarification:

https://forums.jetcareers.com/attachments/image-jpg.31590/

inky13
02-05-2018, 06:06 AM
True, but whoever wrote the legal opinion misinterpreted the regulation. Consequently, the FAA issued the following clarification:

https://forums.jetcareers.com/attachments/image-jpg.31590/

Good find!

Now we just need one for the turbojet vs turbofan debacle.

SHVpilot
02-08-2018, 04:29 AM
Good find!



Now we just need one for the turbojet vs turbofan debacle.



In other FARs it’s been interpreted that a Turbofan = a turbojet. The requirements for a type rating specify that a turbojet powered aircraft requires one. Small turbofan powered aircraft require a type Rating, for Example, Citation Mustang, CJ series, Hondajet, etc. If they weren’t considered the same for legal purposes, none of those aircraft would require a type Rating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TheRaven
02-12-2018, 06:56 AM
4200 TT is virtually a non-starter for Majors......just not enough total time. The competition is RJ Captains with 10000+ hrs TT flying 121, and current Military trained pilots. Not saying it doesn’t happen for people at 4200 TT, but there is generally something else (recommendations, former interns, neighbors with Chief Pilot, etc).

E175 Driver
02-13-2018, 06:53 AM
4200 TT is virtually a non-starter for Majors......just not enough total time. The competition is RJ Captains with 10000+ hrs TT flying 121, and current Military trained pilots. Not saying it doesn’t happen for people at 4200 TT, but there is generally something else (recommendations, former interns, neighbors with Chief Pilot, etc).

Wrong pops. I know of guys getting hired with less that. You probably walked too much in SJ clearing customs and your mind is gone.

TheRaven
02-13-2018, 03:05 PM
Wrong pops. I know of guys getting hired with less that. You probably walked too much in SJ clearing customs and your mind is gone.

I’m sure there are guys getting hired with less than that sonny boy...BUT.....it’s not common, and there is usually something else helping them get hired. I’m sure your extensive experience since leaving Humpty-Diddle is impressive to potential employers, and you’re days away from getting a direct-entry 777 Capt. Job.....can’t believe someone hasn’t recruited you....I’ve heard you’re the best pilot you know.