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View Full Version : Getting onboard at Jetblue


need2beflying
02-07-2018, 05:07 AM
Hey all. Looking for any advice or insight on getting hired on at JetBlue. Currently flying the E-170/175 for a regional, been here for about six months. Previous part 135 captain, with some twin turbine PIC. CFI/CFII/MEI. 2,200 hours total. I do not currently hold a degree, but have started taking classes with the goal of completing my bachelors.

JetBlue has always been my first choice, just loved the brand, heard great things from friends who work there, and the Boston base would allow me to continue to live in Maine and have fairly easy commute.

I feel like I'm in a good position to move up to JetBlue before too long. Guys at my company are getting picked up at Spirit with less time and experience, but I'm holding out for that "Blue" life. I've read the threads about current issues with the contract, but in this industry, things change fast, and JetBlue would provide the quality of life that I'm looking for. Any thoughts? Feel free to PM me.

Thanks!


HeloBubba53
02-07-2018, 05:17 AM
Just keep applying and good luck. I think the gouge was about 5,000 hours straight civilian time, but you never know.

402DRVR
02-07-2018, 05:18 AM
You're about to get drowned in criticism of this place. Almost all of it well deserved. Just be aware what you are getting into. JetBlue is a great place to work. Good people to work with almost all the time, and good equipment that is (my opinion) well maintained.

The Boston base is great. I drive to work. That's the primary reason I still am here. Well, that and no one else has called yet so....

But the reality of where we are is also something to consider before getting onto a seniority list. By all means if the job is offered take it if it represents a step up but be aware that at the moment we are underselling our skill set by about 35%. Meaning our peers doing the very same job are being compensated at a significantly higher value.

Further we live under work rules, at the moment, that significantly lag many of our peers. And we have a retirement plan that, for the moment, significantly lags most of our peers. Management has made clear that they have no intention of bringing serious proposals to the table that would rectify these problems. Their most recent compensation offer, in their own words, put us about 1% behind Alaska (not sure if that was current or post arbitration), and it did so while requiring concessions in the already negotiated work rules.

I think this says a lot about where JetBlue feels its pilots should be compensated for their skill set and is frankly very disappointing to someone like myself who still holds a small hope that this is a career destination. I drive to work and have some serious family issues that make leaving and starting over a little more difficult than for some perhaps.

Good luck in trying to get on here. It is ultimately what you make it as far as being happy is concerned, but do not overlook much of the deserved criticism folks on this forum and others are putting out there.


Bluedriver
02-07-2018, 05:19 AM
Welcome to APC with your 1st post. Things are great at JB:

www.flickr.com/photos/airlinepilotsassociation/sets/72157665295870648

clubord
02-07-2018, 05:24 AM
I personally love Jetblue, it's a great airline and I could not manage my commute without them. However, every single one of my buddies flying there (Multiple A320 & E195 CA) have apps in elsewhere and are looking to get out. The W2's don't lie...

need2beflying
02-07-2018, 05:25 AM
You're about to get drowned in criticism of this place. Almost all of it well deserved. Just be aware what you are getting into. JetBlue is a great place to work. Good people to work with almost all the time, and good equipment that is (my opinion) well maintained.

Good luck in trying to get on here. It is ultimately what you make it as far as being happy is concerned, but do not overlook much of the deserved criticism folks on this forum and others are putting out there.

Thanks, I appreciate the input. I've been watching the posts here, and seeing things that are happening in the company. For me, living in Maine and being able to drive to work would make it worthwhile. I can understand the frustration though, and hope in time that things improve for everyone there. I can tell you that I feel underpaid now. Flying a 175 from Laguardia to Dallas sure isn't regional flying if you ask me...

JetBlue would be a massive improvement, and hopefully gets even better.

CaptCoolHand
02-07-2018, 05:31 AM
With only 2200TT and no degree I'd say at this point getting a call would be very difficult. 3k is a relative minimum. We have stats that show below that people tend to have difficulty in training.

Not saying it won't happen, keep applying if this is where you want to be.

best of luck.

Hey all. Looking for any advice or insight on getting hired on at JetBlue. Currently flying the E-170/175 for a regional, been here for about six months. Previous part 135 captain, with some twin turbine PIC. CFI/CFII/MEI. 2,200 hours total. I do not currently hold a degree, but have started taking classes with the goal of completing my bachelors.

JetBlue has always been my first choice, just loved the brand, heard great things from friends who work there, and the Boston base would allow me to continue to live in Maine and have fairly easy commute.

I feel like I'm in a good position to move up to JetBlue before too long. Guys at my company are getting picked up at Spirit with less time and experience, but I'm holding out for that "Blue" life. I've read the threads about current issues with the contract, but in this industry, things change fast, and JetBlue would provide the quality of life that I'm looking for. Any thoughts? Feel free to PM me.

Thanks!

This pretty much sums it up for most of us.

Welcome to APC with your 1st post. Things are great at JB:

www.flickr.com/photos/airlinepilotsassociation/sets/72157665295870648

Bluedriver
02-07-2018, 06:11 AM
Thanks, I appreciate the input. I've been watching the posts here, and seeing things that are happening in the company. For me, living in Maine and being able to drive to work would make it worthwhile. I can understand the frustration though, and hope in time that things improve for everyone there. I can tell you that I feel underpaid now. Flying a 175 from Laguardia to Dallas sure isn't regional flying if you ask me...

JetBlue would be a massive improvement, and hopefully gets even better.

It's LONG past time. LONG past.

BunkerF16
02-07-2018, 06:21 AM
Thanks, I appreciate the input. I've been watching the posts here, and seeing things that are happening in the company. For me, living in Maine and being able to drive to work would make it worthwhile. I can understand the frustration though, and hope in time that things improve for everyone there. I can tell you that I feel underpaid now. Flying a 175 from Laguardia to Dallas sure isn't regional flying if you ask me...

JetBlue would be a massive improvement, and hopefully gets even better.


Delta's about to open up a virtual pilot base in Boston....get your numbers up and apply there.....good luck!

BlueJetDork
02-07-2018, 07:22 AM
...current issues with the contract, but in this industry, things change fast, and JetBlue would provide the quality of life that I'm looking for...

Oh boy!

Good things are indeed around the next corner. [/list]


We are what we are and I would plan on staying like this for years to come even with a new contract.

The only different between DAL and Jetblue when the door close is everything that matters.

Brand? The brand is your pay, QOL and retirement funding free stuff for the customers.

Bluedriver
02-07-2018, 08:00 AM
Oh boy!

Good things are indeed around the next corner. [/list]


We are what we are and I would plan on staying like this for years to come even with a new contract.

The only different between DAL and Jetblue when the door close is everything that matters.

Brand? The brand is your pay, QOL and retirement funding free stuff for the customers.

Epic post. So simple, yet so true.

atrdriver
02-07-2018, 03:52 PM
This thread is a joke, right? Or a troll? I honestly cannot tell which it is.

pugpilot
02-07-2018, 07:37 PM
This thread is a joke, right? Or a troll? I honestly cannot tell which it is.

he's serious.

I'm waiting for someone to put in the cover letter for their JB application something along the lines of "I want to be a VDA/RSA pilot that hopes to re-establish the direct relationship, make sacrifices for the airline, and do other peoples' jobs!"

Bozo the pilot
02-07-2018, 07:52 PM
he's serious.

I'm waiting for someone to put in the cover letter for their JB application something along the lines of "I want to be a VDA/RSA pilot that hopes to re-establish the direct relationship, make sacrifices for the airline, and do other peoples' jobs!"

That sums up the pilot job description at B6 nicely. Well done Pug:)
Just add "at a discounted rate" and its perfect.

weekendflyer
02-07-2018, 08:57 PM
I always liked JB, applied about 4 or 5 times....Bachelor Degree, 3500 total, 1200 TPIC, LCA, never failed any training ever...talked to JB multiple times at job fairs and each time I got the same feedback from the recruiter saying I don't have enough flight time!? They pretty much assume everyone who has less than 4,000 hours of flight time will fail training or struggle I guess...anyhow I work for Delta now..

Best of luck, if JB is what you want, I think you're gunna need a little more time.

slimothy
02-07-2018, 09:22 PM
I always liked JB, applied about 4 or 5 times....Bachelor Degree, 3500 total, 1200 TPIC, LCA, never failed any training ever...talked to JB multiple times at job fairs and each time I got the same feedback from the recruiter saying I don't have enough flight time!? They pretty much assume everyone who has less than 4,000 hours of flight time will fail training or struggle I guess...anyhow I work for Delta now..

Best of luck, if JB is what you want, I think you're gunna need a little more time.

Congrats on Delta. Sounds like JB saved you from yourself!

pugpilot
02-08-2018, 06:01 AM
I always liked JB, applied about 4 or 5 times....Bachelor Degree, 3500 total, 1200 TPIC, LCA, never failed any training ever...talked to JB multiple times at job fairs and each time I got the same feedback from the recruiter saying I don't have enough flight time!? They pretty much assume everyone who has less than 4,000 hours of flight time will fail training or struggle I guess...anyhow I work for Delta now..

Best of luck, if JB is what you want, I think you're gunna need a little more time.

I've had buddies who are very very qualified (7K, 3kTPIC, LCA, no failures, Bachelors degree) get the TBNT email. If you live in Chicago, Minny, Denver, Texas, NC, DC, California....don't bother applying. They look at you as "someone who is going to leave as soon as a rear airline offers."

Boston, New Hampshire, Maine, RI, NYC/LI/Philly - they'll roll out the red carpet for you. To a lesser degree the Florida guys as well.

JB expects you to give a hometown discount for the pleasure of cleaning their planes.

jar5086
02-08-2018, 06:43 AM
I had applied about 4 times, I live in New Hampshire, and had heard nothing. Hit 5,000TT about 6 months ago all civilian time and walla I got a call. Seems to be some truth to that 5,000TT thing.

AYLflyer
02-08-2018, 07:18 AM
Don't let some of the miserable people here ruin your goal. If you live driving distance to base and understand the current situation here, then by all means do what you can to get hired. Your TT is low, but the quality of it sounds pretty good. Attending job fairs is a big one, especially with your TT, and meeting recruiters face to face can boost your resume to the top of the pile. Don't expect a call from just submitting an application and sitting by the phone.

Do what you can to get hired at the big 3, keep the apps up to date, but for the meantime this place is much better than being at a regional that you need to commute to, and if the music all stops tomorrow, I'd much rather be stuck here. I have my apps up to date with the big 3, but being here and living in base vs commuting to a regional isn't even a comparison.

Yes, comparing ourselves to the bigger guys we are very underpaid, and we're all fighting very hard to change that. That said, the people who suggest staying at a regional, or leaving for a regional are delusional. I'd need to be a 10yr Captain at my last regional to make the same hourly rate as a 2nd yr FO here.

Good luck, and if/when you get here, remember. You are a pilot. Not a cleaner. The only time you should be wearing gloves is when you're heading out in the cold to do a walk-around.

Rascal
02-08-2018, 07:48 AM
Don't let some of the miserable people here ruin your goal. If you live driving distance to base and understand the current situation here, then by all means do what you can to get hired. Your TT is low, but the quality of it sounds pretty good. Attending job fairs is a big one, especially with your TT, and meeting recruiters face to face can boost your resume to the top of the pile. Don't expect a call from just submitting an application and sitting by the phone.

Do what you can to get hired at the big 3, keep the apps up to date, but for the meantime this place is much better than being at a regional that you need to commute to, and if the music all stops tomorrow, I'd much rather be stuck here. I have my apps up to date with the big 3, but being here and living in base vs commuting to a regional isn't even a comparison.

Yes, comparing ourselves to the bigger guys we are very underpaid, and we're all fighting very hard to change that. That said, the people who suggest staying at a regional, or leaving for a regional are delusional. I'd need to be a 10yr Captain at my last regional to make the same hourly rate as a 2nd yr FO here.

Good luck, and if/when you get here, remember. You are a pilot. Not a cleaner. The only time you should be wearing gloves is when you're heading out in the cold to do a walk-around.


...............

say again
02-08-2018, 07:54 AM
[/B]

Not according to the last JFK pocket session. The EVP of Customer Experience encouraged Flight Attendants to report people (pilots included) that don't chip-in to be a part of JetBlue's culture. She will personally "reach out" to people that do not help clean the cabin.

So what? It's not in our job description. You want to be "scared" into cleaning the plane, then that's on you.

Rascal
02-08-2018, 08:00 AM
So what? It's not in our job description. You want to be "scared" into cleaning the plane, then that's on you.

..........

BlueJetDork
02-08-2018, 08:08 AM
Using your pass riding benefit requires you to clean.

Crew or DH there is no requirement.

The entire policy is a recipe for narks.

The narks don't realize though that a management that is interested in your information is equally interested in information on you.

Also and in general, leadership though spear in the back is a clear indication of a failed leadership team and culture that is ready to implode on itself.

queue
02-08-2018, 08:15 AM
So what? It's not in our job description. You want to be "scared" into cleaning the plane, then that's on you.

I think ALPA needs to use highlight "JetBlue culture" whenever possible. This EVP of Customer Experience needs to be fired ASAFP.

I have been quite disappointed with ALPA on this matter and I hope you guys don't give them any breathing room. 3+ yrs and lots of losses along the way.

pugpilot
02-08-2018, 08:24 AM
JB does not like commuters and will do everything they can to hire people who can drive to work.

One example of their anti-commuter tendencies is the "if you are non-reving you have to clean the plane". I could ALMOST understand such a garbage policy if you were using non-rev for leisure travel, but NEVER for going to and from work.

"If you don't clean the plane you'll lose that benefit".
So what? The implied threat is that if I don't clean when I commute to work I'll lose my non-rev privileges and get fired as a result. God I love the JB Culture!

The trash that is our Reserve Work Rules is also designed to be unsustainable as a commuter. You'll be tempted to move to NY or New Hampshire to stay sane.

If you already live in the NE, it is better than a regional. That is not the standard we should be holding ourselves to.

Just remember, "You chose to commute!"

Xtreme87
02-08-2018, 08:25 AM
So what? It's not in our job description. You want to be "scared" into cleaning the plane, then that's on you.

Funny, I used to help the FAís clean and cross seatbelts at my regional whenever I had time. Not because I had to, but because I wanted to help. Jump a few years later, JB has completely destroyed my desire to help and go beyond my work requirements with their culture. Funny how that works. Just speaks volumes about the work environment they have created here.

PasserOGas
02-08-2018, 08:31 AM
Using your pass riding benefit requires you to clean.

Crew or DH there is no requirement.

The entire policy is a recipe for narks.

The narks don't realize though that a management that is interested in your information is equally interested in information on you.

Also and in general, leadership though spear in the back is a clear indication of a failed leadership team and culture that is ready to implode on itself.

I really dont know why ALPA hasnt filed a lawsuit about this. You are being asked to perform labor, under penalty of disciplinary action, with no pay and no labor protections. And before you say "But they gave you a free flight!", I will ask you are they abiding by minimum wage laws? What was the value of that flight? Whose state regulations apply? Remember its not just pilots. Some of the people being asked to work are normal hourly employees subject to their states labor protections, not the RLA. If you are injured (razors, needles, broken glass in the seat back) who is liable for that? What kind of training was provided? Who covers your medical? Does the PEA apply?

In other words, just WTF is taking ALPA so long to shut this nonsense down?

queue
02-08-2018, 09:19 AM
I really dont know why ALPA hasnt filed a lawsuit about this. You are being asked to perform labor, under penalty of disciplinary action, with no pay and no labor protections. And before you say "But they gave you a free flight!", I will ask you are they abiding by minimum wage laws? What was the value of that flight? Whose state regulations apply? Remember its not just pilots. Some of the people being asked to work are normal hourly employees subject to their states labor protections, not the RLA. If you are injured (razors, needles, broken glass in the seat back) who is liable for that? What kind of training was provided? Who covers your medical? Does the PEA apply?

In other words, just WTF is taking ALPA so long to shut this nonsense down?

ALPA hasn't done anything about it because they claim "they have bigger fish to fry". I have offered to "get on the case" but they have refused to let me act on behalf of ALPA (unsatisfactory replies from JB ALPA management and P2P and no interest in personally engaging me for a resolution). As you know, we pilots cannot sue JB because it ends in arbitration. The only thing ALPA has done is to file a grievance against not being paid for the "clean the airplane" training we had to take. This doesn't solve the root problem, which they are evading. The PEA is crap... you have no legal rights since you are being denied legal "due process" -- it ALWAYS ENDS IN ARBITRATION. JB is run by lawyers who know how to screw you. The PEA is an unacceptable "screw the pilots" false compromise.

Does anyone have the email or literature alluding to where JB initiated this draconian policy in order to save money on not hiring cleaners?

Xtreme87
02-08-2018, 09:20 AM
I really dont know why ALPA hasnt filed a lawsuit about this. You are being asked to perform labor, under penalty of disciplinary action, with no pay and no labor protections. And before you say "But they gave you a free flight!", I will ask you are they abiding by minimum wage laws? What was the value of that flight? Whose state regulations apply? Remember its not just pilots. Some of the people being asked to work are normal hourly employees subject to their states labor protections, not the RLA. If you are injured (razors, needles, broken glass in the seat back) who is liable for that? What kind of training was provided? Who covers your medical? Does the PEA apply?

In other words, just WTF is taking ALPA so long to shut this nonsense down?

You want to ask them that?

queue
02-08-2018, 09:29 AM
You want to ask them that?

As I said, I already have. Crickets.

I'm willing to re-engage them again but I expect a better result for 1.9% of my paycheck. I would feel far more gracious about the situation if they were a charity but they are taking money for services. It's just business.

(realized I'm answering for someone else but it still applies)

CaptCoolHand
02-08-2018, 09:46 AM
Why do you think these things are said and not written? Joanna can get all the names she likes... it doesn't change the language in the book.

Expected
Should

vs

will
must

Just like the FSM and the contract. Read the book. This is division of labor 101 aka union busting 101.

PasserOGas
02-08-2018, 10:34 AM
ALPA hasn't done anything about it because they claim "they have bigger fish to fry". I have offered to "get on the case" but they have refused to let me act on behalf of ALPA (unsatisfactory replies from JB ALPA management and P2P and no interest in personally engaging me for a resolution). As you know, we pilots cannot sue JB because it ends in arbitration. The only thing ALPA has done is to file a grievance against not being paid for the "clean the airplane" training we had to take. This doesn't solve the root problem, which they are evading. The PEA is crap... you have no legal rights since you are being denied legal "due process" -- it ALWAYS ENDS IN ARBITRATION. JB is run by lawyers who know how to screw you. The PEA is an unacceptable "screw the pilots" false compromise.

Does anyone have the email or literature alluding to where JB initiated this draconian policy in order to save money on not hiring cleaners?

I would argue PEA only applies when you are working. We aren't working or on duty in this case.

PasserOGas
02-08-2018, 10:38 AM
You want to ask them that?

Here, I am asking. If they haven't fought this yet I doubt me calling my LEC will get much done. They are aware of the policy.

queue
02-08-2018, 10:55 AM
I would argue PEA only applies when you are working. We aren't working or on duty in this case.

What is your legal precedent for saying that?

I agree with you and I'm of the same opinion, but what is the legal mechanism to assert that?

There are deeper legal questions involved. I've always asked... what if you get stabbed by a needle and you get AIDS? If I slip and fall at my place of work because of an unsafe environment, I can sue for $$$ which would help me pay for medical costs. In this case, I'm doing work for the company off the clock and if I metaphorically "slipped and fell", I'm in nebulous legal territory. I'm working but not being paid. I'm not on duty but voluntarily working for my employer. I can think of a few dozen legal scenarios and they all end in that I voluntarily clean and that JB is getting their cake and eating it too.

PasserOGas
02-08-2018, 12:22 PM
What is your legal precedent for saying that?

I agree with you and I'm of the same opinion, but what is the legal mechanism to assert that?

There are deeper legal questions involved. I've always asked... what if you get stabbed by a needle and you get AIDS? If I slip and fall at my place of work because of an unsafe environment, I can sue for $$$ which would help me pay for medical costs. In this case, I'm doing work for the company off the clock and if I metaphorically "slipped and fell", I'm in nebulous legal territory. I'm working but not being paid. I'm not on duty but voluntarily working for my employer. I can think of a few dozen legal scenarios and they all end in that I voluntarily clean and that JB is getting their cake and eating it too.

Agreed, PEA would have to be fought in court. But what about the AO folks? LSC? They are just normal employees being told to work for free. Doubt its legal.

queue
02-08-2018, 01:40 PM
Agreed, PEA would have to be fought in court.

And that's the rub.. it's not real court.. it's an administrative court (kangaroo court). The arbitrator decides things. In a court of law, a judge only steps in when you choose not to be tried by a jury of your peers (other citizens). In arbitration you are not entitled to "due process" (legal term). I hate arbitration with every living fiber in my soul. If the arbitrator decides against you, that's it. Arbitration rarely ever works in the favor of the employee, hence they are kangaroo courts. Look at what happened with 3A. Every single grievance we file against PEA violations will, at worst, end up in the kangaroo court. JetBlue was dead wrong but nothing happened when they took it to arbitration because that administrative judge was probably bought and paid for. A real court allows you to file a lawsuit, perform "discovery" (e.g. get documents internal to JB relevant to your case), and the case be tried by jurors and not some corrupt public servant. So, the PEA might well not exist for all the good it does, legally speaking. This is why I'm so pro-contract. I just hope ALPA is smart enough not to include ANY ARBITRATION CLAUSES IN THE CONTRACT. I hope everyone here holds ALPA accountable to that. If our contract includes references to the FOM, FSM, etc, then that's a loophole that JB can use to get whatever they want.


But what about the AO folks? LSC? They are just normal employees being told to work for free. Doubt its legal.

I don't know about them. They might have an actual contract as opposed to some "agreement" (PEA) that loopholes to other documents. They might be hourly workers or salaried employees.

queue
02-08-2018, 01:49 PM
Incidentally, most every state allows you to file "missed wages" charges against employers when they fail to pay an employee. I haven't deeply researched NY laws but here's a starter: https://www.employmentlawhandbook.com/wage-payment-laws/state-wage-payment-laws/new-york/

Flight Attendants have tried suing for not being paid unless the door is closed.



https://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2014/10/09/flight-attendants-deserve-paid-time-spent-boarding-flight/





https://www.classaction.org/flight-attendant-lawsuits

PasserOGas
02-09-2018, 03:11 AM
And that's the rub.. it's not real court.. it's an administrative court (kangaroo court). The arbitrator decides things. In a court of law, a judge only steps in when you choose not to be tried by a jury of your peers (other citizens). In arbitration you are not entitled to "due process" (legal term). I hate arbitration with every living fiber in my soul. If the arbitrator decides against you, that's it. Arbitration rarely ever works in the favor of the employee, hence they are kangaroo courts. Look at what happened with 3A. Every single grievance we file against PEA violations will, at worst, end up in the kangaroo court. JetBlue was dead wrong but nothing happened when they took it to arbitration because that administrative judge was probably bought and paid for. A real court allows you to file a lawsuit, perform "discovery" (e.g. get documents internal to JB relevant to your case), and the case be tried by jurors and not some corrupt public servant. So, the PEA might well not exist for all the good it does, legally speaking. This is why I'm so pro-contract. I just hope ALPA is smart enough not to include ANY ARBITRATION CLAUSES IN THE CONTRACT. I hope everyone here holds ALPA accountable to that. If our contract includes references to the FOM, FSM, etc, then that's a loophole that JB can use to get whatever they want.




I don't know about them. They might have an actual contract as opposed to some "agreement" (PEA) that loopholes to other documents. They might be hourly workers or salaried employees.

My point is, you could take it to court and argue the PEA doesn't apply since you aren't on duty in any of the capacities it refrences. The judge may or may not send you to company selected kangaroo court.

queue
02-09-2018, 12:19 PM
My point is, you could take it to court and argue the PEA doesn't apply since you aren't on duty in any of the capacities it refrences. The judge may or may not send you to company selected kangaroo court.

Interesting. Could you find case law demonstrating that? If so, then the pilot group has a strong case.

Bluetruth
02-09-2018, 03:58 PM
In that pocket session it was said they have no plans to hire cleaners and are keeping the blue turn. They also said they calculate turn times assuming non-revs will be on board and helping to clean (read that sentence again and let it sink in). We all know many times (non-FA) non-revs just walk off. So quick turns and more cleaning for just the FAs.

So unfortunately! The FA's will have to be voting that Union in, since the direct relationship means a lifetime of plane cleaning at per diem pay rate.

And I'm sorry, expecting us to become informants or supervisors of who cleans and who does not clean is just another responsibility or task at that same $2.15 a hour per diem rate. No thanks!

Who is really destroying the culture?

Rabid Seagull
02-09-2018, 05:12 PM
Oh hello Joanna, how can I help you?

- I was told by _____ you didn't help clean yesterday on your commute home

Are there quotas on how many seats I need to clean?

- No

Do you want me to block the aisle slowing down the deplaning customers?

- No

Well by the time all the customers got off the airplane all the other morons, that get in the way, finished cleaning the plane

-Well, I wouldn't call them morons

Well someone has brainwashed them to think it's professional to start cleaning the plane once the door opens. That's right , we're done with these customers once we get to _____, who cares if there's someone saying goodbye. It's all about turning the airplane in the ridiculously allotted time.

Is it not true that FA#1 has to stay in the front galley until all the customers get off?

- Yes

How often do you think that happens?

-------

-Do your seat, maybe the aisle, and get out....you f'n "cleaned"-

p.s. FUPM

queue
02-09-2018, 07:08 PM
Maybe their union should collaborate with our union so we stop this snitch system JB wants. Remember when they paid customers to snitch on FAs? JB MBAs know the tactic of divide and conquer. Turn labor groups against each other. Maybe they should be resisting more instead of viewing us as the enemy.

pilotpayne
02-09-2018, 08:04 PM
Maybe their union should collaborate with our union so we stop this snitch system JB wants. Remember when they paid customers to snitch on FAs? JB MBAs know the tactic of divide and conquer. Turn labor groups against each other. Maybe they should be resisting more instead of viewing us as the enemy.


Wouldnít they need a union first?

pugpilot
02-09-2018, 09:40 PM
Wouldnít they need a union first?

just a matter of time according to every FA I speak to.

hilltopflyer
02-11-2018, 07:15 PM
just a matter of time according to every FA I speak to.

Why hasn't that voted happened yet?

pugpilot
02-11-2018, 09:15 PM
Why hasn't that voted happened yet?

announcement on the 15th, obviously.

GuppyPuppy
02-11-2018, 09:55 PM
Maybe their union should collaborate with our union so we stop this snitch system JB wants. Remember when they paid customers to snitch on FAs? JB MBAs know the tactic of divide and conquer. Turn labor groups against each other. Maybe they should be resisting more instead of viewing us as the enemy.

We have our own pilots snitching on each other. How could this possibly work???

GP

slimothy
02-12-2018, 12:46 AM
Why hasn't that voted happened yet?

The only explanation Iíve heard has been related to the chaos created by potential/actual government shutdowns. Seems like a weak excuse, but weíre talking about federal employees, so why would that surprise me?

The701Express
02-12-2018, 02:55 AM
The only explanation Iíve heard has been related to the chaos created by potential/actual government shutdowns. Seems like a weak excuse, but weíre talking about federal employees, so why would that surprise me?

The federal government just shut down last week. It was only for a few hours, but no one knew how long it could have lasted.

Now, imagine that a union vote is happening during a shutdown. The NMB is not essential and furloughs all of its employees. What happens if there's any type of problem during the vote? Who's there to monitor the situation and determine what happened, why, and who if anyone committed any wrongdoing?

It sucks that the uncertainty of government funding has had a negative impact on the FAs union vote, but considering the amount of shenanigans the company could have tried to pull with no oversight makes the NMB crucial to ensuring a fair vote occurs.

aldonite7667
02-12-2018, 04:25 AM
In that pocket session it was said they have no plans to hire cleaners and are keeping the blue turn. They also said they calculate turn times assuming non-revs will be on board and helping to clean (read that sentence again and let it sink in). We all know many times (non-FA) non-revs just walk off. So quick turns and more cleaning for just the FAs.

So unfortunately! The FA's will have to be voting that Union in, since the direct relationship means a lifetime of plane cleaning at per diem pay rate.

And I'm sorry, expecting us to become informants or supervisors of who cleans and who does not clean is just another responsibility or task at that same $2.15 a hour per diem rate. No thanks!

Who is really destroying the culture?

So they plan on non revs being on board every flight?

Bluedriver
02-12-2018, 05:25 AM
So they plan on non revs being on board every flight?

That literally what they said. JB math.

pilotpayne
02-12-2018, 05:28 AM
The only explanation Iíve heard has been related to the chaos created by potential/actual government shutdowns. Seems like a weak excuse, but weíre talking about federal employees, so why would that surprise me?

They said they needed to know the government could would be funded for 30 days, so the vote wouldnít be interrupted. Now that there is a 2 year deal it should all be a go.

Bluedriver
02-12-2018, 05:34 AM
The only explanation Iíve heard has been related to the chaos created by potential/actual government shutdowns. Seems like a weak excuse, but weíre talking about federal employees, so why would that surprise me?

The current political party that controls all three branches of federal government and it's departments, boards and committees is pro-business. Unions, installing unions on company property and strengthening unions is not their top priority... Besides the uncertainty of government funding, wouldn't surprise me at all if they were slow rolling the vote to give the company more time to affect an anti-union campaign.

Vincent Chase
02-12-2018, 05:41 AM
The current political party that controls all three branches of federal government and it's departments, boards and committees is pro-business. Unions, installing unions on company property and strengthening unions is not their top priority... Besides the uncertainty of government funding, wouldn't surprise me at all if they were slow rolling the vote to give the company more time to affect an anti-union campaign.
That's right! You nailed it! It's this current administration.
You guys would have been better if you started negotiations sometime around 2014-2015, when there was a more pro-union guy in charge. THAT would have made the company take you seriously.

Seriously?:rolleyes:

aldonite7667
02-12-2018, 06:17 AM
The current political party that controls all three branches of federal government and it's departments, boards and committees is pro-business. Unions, installing unions on company property and strengthening unions is not their top priority... Besides the uncertainty of government funding, wouldn't surprise me at all if they were slow rolling the vote to give the company more time to affect an anti-union campaign.

If your party could break from Chuck Schumer and do the right thing your statement would be correct. 51 votes isnít the 60 required to make required changes. So control is different than majority, isnít it (rhetorical)? No matter which party it is, you arenít supposed to have to need a super majority to get an agenda through. Each party is supposed to vote for whatís right for the people in their constituency, not the partyówhich your party wonít do. Republicans do not vote party line. You take that as weakness. That is how it is supposed to work.

Sorry for the political thread drift but Iím tired of lefties getting a jab in and then wanting to continue the conversation about Jetblue with no retort.

Bluedriver
02-12-2018, 08:28 AM
That's right! You nailed it! It's this current administration.
You guys would have been better if you started negotiations sometime around 2014-2015, when there was a more pro-union guy in charge. THAT would have made the company take you seriously.

Seriously?:rolleyes:

Yeah, that's not what I said. But, to argue R's are pro-union is also dillussional.

Bluedriver
02-12-2018, 08:31 AM
If your party could break from Chuck Schumer and do the right thing your statement would be correct. 51 votes isnít the 60 required to make required changes. So control is different than majority, isnít it (rhetorical)? No matter which party it is, you arenít supposed to have to need a super majority to get an agenda through. Each party is supposed to vote for whatís right for the people in their constituency, not the partyówhich your party wonít do. Republicans do not vote party line. You take that as weakness. That is how it is supposed to work.

Sorry for the political thread drift but Iím tired of lefties getting a jab in and then wanting to continue the conversation about Jetblue with no retort.

I don't have a "party". Both suck.

The rest of what you said goes both ways, and has been a problem on both sides. Your ability to see it depends solely on whether you are cheering for the 1s or the 0s.

BeatNavy
02-12-2018, 08:34 AM
Yeah, that's not what I said. But, to argue R's are pro-union is also dillussional.

Dillussional?

Bluedriver
02-12-2018, 08:45 AM
Dillussional?

Good catch, bad speelinng today.

rvr1800
02-12-2018, 10:02 AM
You guys need to take all your political BS somewhere else. Many have already asked this and it continues on every thread. Start your own thread and have your dumb arguments there. (I bet you wonít change each otherís minds though)

atrdriver
02-12-2018, 10:30 AM
You guys need to take all your political BS somewhere else. Many have already asked this and it continues on every thread. Start your own thread and have your dumb arguments there. (I bet you wonít change each otherís minds though)

Rvr is right.

Politics elsewhere. Let's keep this on what we can agree on: JB is FAR FAR behind on pay and benefits, treats its pilots like sh!t, has work rules worse than some regionals, and is negotiating in bad faith.

Fly SOP if you work here. Apply elsewhere if you don't.

Bluedriver
02-12-2018, 12:13 PM
Rvr is right.

Politics elsewhere. Let's keep this on what we can agree on: JB is FAR FAR behind on pay and benefits, treats its pilots like sh!t, has work rules worse than some regionals, and is negotiating in bad faith.

Fly SOP if you work here. Apply elsewhere if you don't.

This guy gets it.

aldonite7667
02-12-2018, 12:55 PM
Rvr is right.

Politics elsewhere. Let's keep this on what we can agree on: JB is FAR FAR behind on pay and benefits, treats its pilots like sh!t, has work rules worse than some regionals, and is negotiating in bad faith.

Fly SOP if you work here. Apply elsewhere if you don't.

And youíll have it as long as no one spews garbage about this administration. Talk business and youíll get business from me.

Bluedriver
02-12-2018, 01:04 PM
And youíll have it as long as no one spews garbage about this administration. Talk business and youíll get business from me.

Ha, right. Saying R's are pro-business sure is garbage...

Get real dude.

aldonite7667
02-12-2018, 01:09 PM
The current political party that controls all three branches of federal government and it's departments, boards and committees is pro-business. Unions, installing unions on company property and strengthening unions is not their top priority... Besides the uncertainty of government funding, wouldn't surprise me at all if they were slow rolling the vote to give the company more time to affect an anti-union campaign.

This is the comment Iím referring to. Learn how it works. Again. Iíll stop if you will.

N311JB
02-12-2018, 01:22 PM
Sorry for the political thread drift but Iím tired of lefties getting a jab in and then wanting to continue the conversation about Jetblue with no retort.[/QUOTE]

You know what us lefties are tired of? Using scissors and can openers.

Bluedriver
02-12-2018, 01:55 PM
This is the comment Iím referring to. Learn how it works. Again. Iíll stop if you will.

Nothing controversial about that post dude. R's are pro-business. They have all three branches, so they appoint the board members, they appoint the department heads, they staff the committees. They move their agenda forward within the government.

I'm not talking about passing new laws.

aldonite7667
02-12-2018, 02:06 PM
Nothing controversial about that post dude. R's are pro-business. They have all three branches, so they appoint the board members, they appoint the department heads, they staff the committees. They move their agenda forward within the government.

I'm not talking about passing new laws.

Ok, thought you were being a hater. Apologies.

Gordie H
02-12-2018, 02:23 PM
One sure fire way to have a quiet trip with me is start off yapping about your stupid politics. Barf. ďIím really interested in your views on Daca but I just told myself I was gonna read up on the electrical system this trip, so sorry.Ē :)

aldonite7667
02-12-2018, 03:38 PM
One sure fire way to have a quiet trip with me is start off yapping about your stupid politics. Barf. ďIím really interested in your views on Daca but I just told myself I was gonna read up on the electrical system this trip, so sorry.Ē :)


Good to know. Grab the walk around and donít touch anything. :/)

HighFlight
02-12-2018, 04:28 PM
One sure fire way to have a quiet trip with me is start off yapping about your stupid politics. Barf. ďIím really interested in your views on Daca but I just told myself I was gonna read up on the electrical system this trip, so sorry.Ē :)

Which is funny, because so very few Americans know Jack or ****e about DACA or the whole immigration process. I love it when I hear someone say, ďWell, they have been here for xx years. Why didnít they just become citizens? Because they want all the free stuff!Ē

*SMH*

Gordie H
02-12-2018, 04:54 PM
Good to know. Grab the walk around and donít touch anything. :/)

Yeah, thanks for checking me I sort of lied a bit Ė I really donít mind chatting a little politics here and there but only after I get to know you some. Then when you disagree you can just laugh at each other. Its guys Iíve never flown with before that dump everything on you, on leg oneÖI just find that really off putting.

aldonite7667
02-12-2018, 05:10 PM
Yeah, thanks for checking me I sort of lied a bit Ė I really donít mind chatting a little politics here and there but only after I get to know you some. Then when you disagree you can just laugh at each other. Its guys Iíve never flown with before that dump everything on you, on leg oneÖI just find that really off putting.

This..... agreed

queue
02-18-2018, 07:15 AM
Rvr is right.

Politics elsewhere. Let's keep this on what we can agree on: JB is FAR FAR behind on pay and benefits, treats its pilots like sh!t, has work rules worse than some regionals, and is negotiating in bad faith.

Fly SOP if you work here. Apply elsewhere if you don't.

So why didn't the Democrats do anything to ammend the RLA more towards workers rather than continuing to allow corporations to profit from ludicrously long "negotiation" periods? Politics is everything. You can't stick your head in the sand. I really hate that about most pilots. That's why we continue to beg for petty privileges and barely incremental improvements in quality of life and pay. If you want to make meaningful change, you MUST attack the politicians.

Bluedriver
02-18-2018, 08:20 AM
So why didn't the Democrats do anything to ammend the RLA more towards workers rather than continuing to allow corporations to profit from ludicrously long "negotiation" periods? Politics is everything. You can't stick your head in the sand. I really hate that about most pilots. That's why we continue to beg for petty privileges and barely incremental improvements in quality of life and pay. If you want to make meaningful change, you MUST attack the politicians.

Why don't the Republicans?

queue
02-18-2018, 08:28 AM
Why don't the Republicans?

Thatís a good question... letís see if the RINOs in office respect their constituents...

I think we can sway their voting and lawmaking through a persistent barrage. While politics dominates all, we certainly can control this false left/right paradigm, neither one of which is on ďour sideĒ. Successful countries keep their servant governments on short leashes. Democrats got voted out for the overwhelming failure of their socialist policies, the same will apply to the establishment right.

full of luv
02-19-2018, 06:49 PM
So why didn't the Democrats do anything to ammend the RLA more towards workers rather than continuing to allow corporations to profit from ludicrously long "negotiation" periods? Politics is everything. You can't stick your head in the sand. I really hate that about most pilots. That's why we continue to beg for petty privileges and barely incremental improvements in quality of life and pay. If you want to make meaningful change, you MUST attack the politicians.

Neither side is going to do a darn thing to improve the efforts of airline employees to strike/earn more. Every pilot in this industry now is overpaid according to the average citizen, now even the RJ pilots with their bonuses.

If anything, the politicians want to be able to tell the public, "look I just got this foreign/startup airline to add service to our town so you can fly cross country/ to europe for $59 each way...."

PasserOGas
02-20-2018, 03:53 PM
Thatís a good question... letís see if the RINOs in office respect their constituents...

I think we can sway their voting and lawmaking through a persistent barrage. While politics dominates all, we certainly can control this false left/right paradigm, neither one of which is on ďour sideĒ. Successful countries keep their servant governments on short leashes. Democrats got voted out for the overwhelming failure of their socialist policies, the same will apply to the establishment right.

They are the same party. The stuff talk radio and msnbc say are to keep you distracted while they both do their corporate masters' bidding. Exhibit 1 the RLA, exhibit 2 the NMB under both parties, exhibit 3 every decision and law that actually gets passed by either party.