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View Full Version : Indoc/Ground School Question


CrowneVic
02-09-2018, 01:29 PM
Can someone please give me a rundown of the initial schedule for new hire training?

In particular, I am trying to determine if, after the first week or two, NH's are sent home for a home study period, then return to the training center at a later time?

Or, once you start the first day, is it conceivable a NH could spend two or three months straight in training with no long breaks?

A typical week-by-week breakdown of how Envoy schedules NH training would be greatly appreciated.

Also, is the training hotel single occupancy?

Thank you.


MD-11Loader
02-09-2018, 01:45 PM
Can someone please give me a rundown of the initial schedule for new hire training?

In particular, I am trying to determine if, after the first week or two, NH's are sent home for a home study period, then return to the training center at a later time?

Or, once you start the first day, is it conceivable a NH could spend two or three months straight in training with no long breaks?

A typical week-by-week breakdown of how Envoy schedules NH training would be greatly appreciated.

Also, is the training hotel single occupancy?

Thank you.

In theory youíll come down for indoc, do the classes, and then go home for 10 days of self study CBTís.

10 days later youíll then come back for systems instruction, IPTís, and then your PV/SV. I think this process took me 10 days, but I canít remember.

Once the PV/SV is complete youíll start sims. Sometimes this is where there can be a break depending on how things are backed up. There are 7 sims (IIRC) and then your MV and QLOE. Someone who has gone through recently can chime in as far as backups and such go as well as their training footprint.

Yes, hotels are single occupancy and there is a room downstairs with a cockpit trainer in it for the CRJ and ERJ. It will help a lot when you are trying to learn flows and call outs.

CrowneVic
02-09-2018, 01:47 PM
Nice. How long is the indoc and class portion before going for self-study?


AZPilotMike
02-09-2018, 01:58 PM
In theory youíll come down for indoc, do the classes, and then go home for 10 days of self study CBTís.

10 days later youíll then come back for systems instruction, IPTís, and then your PV/SV. I think this process took me 10 days, but I canít remember.

Once the PV/SV is complete youíll start sims. Sometimes this is where there can be a break depending on how things are backed up. There are 7 sims (IIRC) and then your MV and QLOE. Someone who has gone through recently can chime in as far as backups and such go as well as their training footprint.

Yes, hotels are single occupancy and there is a room downstairs with a cockpit trainer in it for the CRJ and ERJ. It will help a lot when you are trying to learn flows and call outs.
This is pretty much spot on. The only difference would be if a holiday interrupts training. In this case they have been known to split indoc.

AZPilotMike
02-09-2018, 01:59 PM
Nice. How long is the indoc and class portion before going for self-study?

5 days for me. Mornings are book stuff and afternoons are safety/union/etc.

CrowneVic
02-09-2018, 03:04 PM
So, pretty much assured of 10 days/2 weeks of self-study at home after one week of indoc, then?

Just want to be sure, as I am contemplating taking a short-notice class date and want to have a few days back at home to get some things done after indoc.

I can take a short-notice class if I know I will not have to be in Dallas for an extended period without having a chance for a few days at home.

CrowneVic
02-09-2018, 03:58 PM
Don't want to beat a dead horse, just want to be clear.

I want to have a car with me and need two days to drive it to Dallas. I was thinking of just flying out and using the hotel shuttle for indoc week, then doing the drive with my personal car to Dallas after the self-study portion.

I want to make absolutely sure I will have two days after self-study, but before ground training/sims to do the drive.

If I'm reading the footprint correctly, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday of indoc week coincide with days 1-3 of aircraft specific training.

Thursday and Friday are Indoc only. Friday return home.

Days 4-7 are at-home self-study.

Then, are days 8-17 on the chart back in Dallas, or is a portion of that still at home?

Sorry, but I need to be really clear on where the break is and how long it will be, so I can get all my studying done and have two free days for the drive.

Thanks if you can clarify.


Edit: Looks like someone deleted the post with the training footprint I am referencing.

highfarfast
02-09-2018, 04:45 PM
Don't want to beat a dead horse, just want to be clear.

I want to have a car with me and need two days to drive it to Dallas. I was thinking of just flying out and using the hotel shuttle for indoc week, then doing the drive with my personal car to Dallas after the self-study portion.

I want to make absolutely sure I will have two days after self-study, but before ground training/sims to do the drive.

If I'm reading the footprint correctly, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday of indoc week coincide with days 1-3 of aircraft specific training.

Thursday and Friday are Indoc only. Friday return home.

Days 4-7 are at-home self-study.

Then, are days 8-17 on the chart back in Dallas, or is a portion of that still at home?

Sorry, but I need to be really clear on where the break is and how long it will be, so I can get all my studying done and have two free days for the drive.

Thanks if you can clarify.


Edit: Looks like someone deleted the post with the training footprint I am referencing.

Unless something changed from when I went through:

Monday through Friday, Indoc. Weekend off, then on Monday, Indoc for essentially a half day. If there are backups in the training pipeline, this is the first potential break, but otherwise, second half of that Monday and Tuesday and Wed are special curriculum (emergency, hazard material, security, etc). THEN, you get the 10 days off for home study. Which is another potential break in training if there are backups in the training pipeline so this could be longer than 10 days.

When you do come back for systems/IPT/CBT/SV/PV, if I remember correctly, this could be done in as little as two weeks but depending on actual sim schedule might be a few days longer. After that, another potential break if there are backups in the training pipeline.

Then the sim lessons themselves, 7 sims and MV and QLOE.

BTW, anything that involves a sim which is CBT/PV/MV/sim lessons/MV/QLOE will be scheduled at just about any hour and just about any day (I had one very early on Easter morning) so just because it seems like youíre getting weekends off and a daytime schedule early on, donít expect that to continue.

CrowneVic
02-09-2018, 05:07 PM
Perfect. Thank you.

BigZ
02-09-2018, 05:45 PM
Perfect. Thank you.

Last class got 2-3-4 weeks between indoc and special/emer 3 days. Equipment and class seniority dependent.

1704LIFE
02-10-2018, 09:00 AM
I did INDOC at hotel then moved the family down after first phase.

Surprised I can remember that with the amount of drinking that was done...

wiz5422
02-11-2018, 03:01 PM
There is actually 8 SIM lessons now, followed by your MV then LOE.

Sheg0theD
02-11-2018, 06:00 PM
There is actually 8 SIM lessons now, followed by your MV then LOE.



To many failed rides..


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inky13
02-13-2018, 06:09 PM
This all assumes no delays:

Week 1: M-F - Indoc, Sat and Sun - Off
Week 2: Mon morning - HR stuff; Mon Afternoon - SPC1, T - SPC2, W - GET/GED, Thu-Sun - At home CBT
---->Potential Delay between HR and SPC1, however delays are almost/will be gone
Week 3: Mon to Wed - At home CBT; Thu to Fri - SYS/IPT; Sat and Sun - Off
Week 4: Mon to Fri (or Sat on E145) - SYS/IPT; Sat and Sun - Off (E175, CRJ) E145 will have Fri, Sun, Mon off
Week 5: (E175/CRJ) Mon and Tue - CPT; Wed - SV/PV; Thu to Sun - Off/E175 will have SIM Observations
.............(E145) Tue and Wed - CPT; Thu - SV/PV; Fri to Sun - Off/Sim Observations
Week 6: Sim start days vary by fleet: E145/E175 Sun to Fri - Off/SIM OBS; SIM Starts on Sat with 6 lessons in a row then 2 days off
.............CRJ will start on THU with 4 or 5 in a row then 2 days off
Week 7: SIM all week; E145/E175 will have 8 lessons; CRJ has 7
Week 8: Finish SIM, MV, LOE; at least 30hrs rest prior to IOE
Week 9: IOE
Week 10: IOE

1704LIFE
02-14-2018, 11:19 AM
Remember, at Envoy everyone gets their GEDís

CrowneVic
02-14-2018, 01:48 PM
What's GET/GED?

crj700
02-15-2018, 11:27 AM
What's GET/GED?

General Emergency Drills. Open doors, out on lifevests, ect.

sandybanjo
05-30-2018, 11:06 AM
Yes........I was a quick "add on" to a class back in May....I am a 175 PSI trainee, but didn't have access to the same materials as the pilots (23 in the class). The system didn't even know who I was on day 5.....needless to say.....no study guide, actually did have access to the 365 app, but couldn't sign in with my Employee number until day 5......then, the whole system had to be re-downloaded. Needless to say......when the Basic Indoc quiz was labelled as a "jeopardy" test for sign-off on our AQP folder, I went into a panic stage......told my instructor, "I'm going to have to do this again." Sure enough! The two remedial sessions I had afterward were most beneficial......One instructor even said, "No wonder." So, long story short, that threw me out of the class scheduling sequencing. At beginning week three without a training schedule, I'm at least getting some support from some of my class mates and a fellow instructor......I suspect with the hiring trend, it may be quite a while until my training shall proceed. Keep your chin up.......as you were told in Basic Indoc, you can't do this by yourself.....get with a group and keep on progressing.....keep your learning curve at optimal!.......however, feeling somewhat isolated from the process, I'm proceeding onward with learning and doing my best to be prepared........once the training resumes, I know it will happen on schedule.......for what it's worth to anyone who reads this.........You're hired because Envoy wants you there......they need you, so keep a great attitude, learn, grow, and you'll be successful!

AcesHigh
05-30-2018, 11:19 AM
Yes........I was a quick "add on" to a class back in May....I am a 175 PSI trainee, but didn't have access to the same materials as the pilots (23 in the class). The system didn't even know who I was on day 5.....needless to say.....no study guide, actually did have access to the 365 app, but couldn't sign in with my Employee number until day 5......then, the whole system had to be re-downloaded. Needless to say......when the Basic Indoc quiz was labelled as a "jeopardy" test for sign-off on our AQP folder, I went into a panic stage......told my instructor, "I'm going to have to do this again." Sure enough! The two remedial sessions I had afterward were most beneficial......One instructor even said, "No wonder." So, long story short, that threw me out of the class scheduling sequencing. At beginning week three without a training schedule, I'm at least getting some support from some of my class mates and a fellow instructor......I suspect with the hiring trend, it may be quite a while until my training shall proceed. Keep your chin up.......as you were told in Basic Indoc, you can't do this by yourself.....get with a group and keep on progressing.....keep your learning curve at optimal!.......however, feeling somewhat isolated from the process, I'm proceeding onward with learning and doing my best to be prepared........once the training resumes, I know it will happen on schedule.......for what it's worth to anyone who reads this.........You're hired because Envoy wants you there......they need you, so keep a great attitude, learn, grow, and you'll be successful!


Best of luck

Folove
05-30-2018, 02:02 PM
Is there a delay currently for IOE once DEC finish training?

YLpilot
05-30-2018, 03:45 PM
Yeah for me the delay was about 30-36 hours. They need ya on the line. You get priority.

SkylineAviation
05-31-2018, 11:46 AM
Is there a delay currently for IOE once DEC finish training?

No delays for anyone starting IOE (dec or FO), at least on the 145

Livingtofly89
05-31-2018, 09:12 PM
No delays for anyone starting IOE (dec or FO), at least on the 145

I had 7 days off before starting FO IOE.

Pedro4President
06-01-2018, 03:41 AM
I had 7 days off before starting FO IOE.

That's time frame would be considered standard. Think about it your entire class finishes check ride on or about the same day. Those 10-15 pilots looking to start IOE at the same time will not start on the same day. You will have some time off starting IOE and some will get a weekish off and other only a few days.

Cyio
06-01-2018, 04:07 AM
I had 7 days off before starting FO IOE.
Thatís fairly normal and most people are happy to have the time off after long term training, I know was.

SkylineAviation
06-01-2018, 04:21 AM
I had 7 days off before starting FO IOE.

I wouldnít consider 7 days a delay considering it was at least a month or more last year. Many students only get few days as well.

Bruno82
06-08-2018, 08:51 PM
As a DEC, is there anything you would recommend studying prior to Indoc?


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Cyio
06-09-2018, 03:06 AM
As a DEC, is there anything you would recommend studying prior to Indoc?


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Being a dec and new to our policies, I would focus on the fm1 as that is essentially what indoc week is all about. Other than that itís always good to brush up on systems to get ahead of the curve. Have they opened the cbtís to you yet?

Bruno82
06-09-2018, 04:14 AM
Being a dec and new to our policies, I would focus on the fm1 as that is essentially what indoc week is all about. Other than that itís always good to brush up on systems to get ahead of the curve. Have they opened the cbtís to you yet?



They havenít sent anything about the CBTs to me yet. When do they usually send that?


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havick206
06-09-2018, 06:03 AM
They havenít sent anything about the CBTs to me yet. When do they usually send that?


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Have you actually started yet? If not you wonít have a problem login to jet net anyway

Bruno82
06-09-2018, 09:43 AM
Have you actually started yet? If not you wonít have a problem login to jet net anyway



No, I havenít started. CBTs are through JetNet?


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Jamesthunder
06-09-2018, 10:48 AM
No, I havenít started. CBTs are through JetNet?


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Yep, specifically on the learning hub. Even if you had access for some reason, there wouldn't be anything there because you technically aren't assigned an airplane until day 1 when everyone picks.

Bruno82
06-09-2018, 10:56 AM
Yep, specifically on the learning hub. Even if you had access for some reason, there wouldn't be anything there because you technically aren't assigned an airplane until day 1 when everyone picks.



Thanks!


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Folove
06-09-2018, 11:26 AM
Thanks!


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Just PM you.

Cyio
06-09-2018, 03:42 PM
Thanks!


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Yeah sorry about that I misread your post and thought you had already been assigned. My error.

Vapor Lock
06-11-2018, 07:32 PM
What hotel brand is used for training? Iím not asking for location, so un-bunch your panties please.

uavking
06-11-2018, 09:00 PM
What hotel brand is used for training? Iím not asking for location, so un-bunch your panties please.

One that wonít give you a qualifying stay or points.

NoValueAviator
06-12-2018, 02:34 AM
Holiday Inn. Envoy loves Holiday In

Vapor Lock
06-13-2018, 04:34 AM
One that wonít give you a qualifying stay or points.

Exactly what my motive was.

BarrySeal
06-13-2018, 04:40 AM
how "hard" is the training ? Are the instructors supportive and want to see guys succeed, or do they seek to make it as hard as possible ?

Cyio
06-13-2018, 05:56 AM
how "hard" is the training ? Are the instructors supportive and want to see guys succeed, or do they seek to make it as hard as possible ?

I would say the old phrase, "like a fire hose" is applicable to the training environment here. However, while it does come at you fast, the instructors in my experience are all very willing to help you succeed providing that you are putting in the effort.

I have seen on two separate occasions new hires getting extra sims to try and get through the process, mainly due to their positive attitude and work ethic. I have also seen people let go at the very minimum time simply because they didn't have the right attitude.

So, long story short, come to training ready and focused with a positive attitude and you should be fine.

MD-11Loader
06-13-2018, 09:12 AM
how "hard" is the training? Are the instructors supportive and want to see guys succeed, or do they seek to make it as hard as possible?


You're going to sit in class and go through FM1, then be sent home to learn systems on your own. You'd better put effort into learning them because when you get into class, the instructors aren't going to hold your hand to get you through. When you get to the sim, you're going to be dealing with PSI's (professional sim instructors), and they are not the instructors of old. Many of them have never flown the airplane and are fumbling with some of the techniques.



So in the end, you need to put in the time and effort. Just because it is AQP doesn't mean that it's a walk in the park. Spend time downstairs at the hotel studying flows on the trainers, and use your lunches to go to the computer lab and learn the FMS. It is all on you to pass the training.

NoValueAviator
06-13-2018, 09:55 AM
how "hard" is the training ? Are the instructors supportive and want to see guys succeed, or do they seek to make it as hard as possible ?

I'd say it's about 50/50, the instructors I had that were good were great and I will remember their names and say hi to them in airports 20 years from now. They won't remember me but I don't care.

The instructors I had that weren't good/didn't give a damn were worse than useless, burning through valuable sim time. Unfortunately, almost all the PSI's/ground instructors I was exposed to were in the latter category. Bad news for anyone coming in the door today, as PSI's are now the norm (except checkrides, which are still done by the same group of airmen).

Ground school as many others have said is only attended to check the box. They will present a lot of information, similar to the CBT's, but will not "teach" you anything. I learned 80% of what you need to know from self-study, and the remaining 20% in procedures training and sims when exposed to real pilots.

Captain Kirk
06-13-2018, 03:46 PM
NoValueAviator pretty much summed up most of my experience.
PSIs were mediocre at best. The line guys were great.
Group study at the hotel and pick the brains of any upgrades there as well.
Read, read, read about systems and the FMS.
Stay after hours at the schoolhouse to use the computers and IPT. It's usually quieter too.The downstairs room at the hotel can get busy and sometimes distracting. Lots of storytelling and socializing during evenings.
Come in with a positive attitude you'll make it. Hell I did!!
Kirk

Bruno82
06-13-2018, 07:32 PM
Is the computer lab available after class for work on the FMS?


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BarrySeal
06-13-2018, 07:38 PM
monthly, after-tax, into your pocket, training pay ?


how much

Iflythe72
06-13-2018, 09:05 PM
monthly, after-tax, into your pocket, training pay ?


how much

Mine was about 1380 per check, got as high as 1410

Captain Kirk
06-14-2018, 04:53 AM
Averaged about $1,300 per check, net.
We are paid every 2 weeks.

MD-11Loader
06-14-2018, 05:31 AM
Is the computer lab available after class for work on the FMS?


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Yes, the room are all open. When I was in training some people would be in there until 2000 working on things.

Captain Kirk
06-14-2018, 09:08 AM
If you do stay at the schoolhouse after hours it will be up to you to get back to the hotel. It can add up.
Plus Uber doesn't take the $5 "no housekeeping" coupon either :D

NoValueAviator
06-14-2018, 09:13 AM
You'll usually have time (2-3 hours) between the end of training and whatever the out of touch van schedulers have determined is the right time for you to go back to the Holiday Inn to play with the training resources.

Bruno82
06-14-2018, 09:51 AM
If you do stay at the schoolhouse after hours it will be up to you to get back to the hotel. It can add up.

Plus Uber doesn't take the $5 "no housekeeping" coupon either :D



Thanks. Iím driving my car down. Are there any restrictions with parking at the training center?


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Cyio
06-14-2018, 10:23 AM
Thanks. I’m driving my car down. Are there any restrictions with parking at the training center?


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Nope. At least not that have ever encountered. Weekends, early mornings are the best to get in and work on CBT's and such. Pretty much have the place to yourself and by the time the rest filter in, you are about done anyway.

bourbon scamp
06-15-2018, 10:38 AM
Thanks. Iím driving my car down. Are there any restrictions with parking at the training center?


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No. Most local guys drive their own cars and some out of towners bring their own as well.

Jamesthunder
06-15-2018, 02:25 PM
No. Most local guys drive their own cars and some out of towners bring their own as well.

Just keep your valuables out of it. A classmate of mine had his truck broken into, a locked gunbox jimmied and gun stolen.

Bruno82
06-16-2018, 03:00 AM
Just keep your valuables out of it. A classmate of mine had his truck broken into, a locked gunbox jimmied and gun stolen.



At the hotel or training center?


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Cyio
06-16-2018, 03:35 AM
Just keep your valuables out of it. A classmate of mine had his truck broken into, a locked gunbox jimmied and gun stolen.
Training center. I heard this story a couple of years ago when I was there as well. Not entirely sure its true, but good advice either way.

Jamesthunder
06-16-2018, 05:40 AM
Training center. I heard this story a couple of years ago when I was there as well. Not entirely sure its true, but good advice either way.

It was a year ago at the hotel.

Skip0927
06-17-2018, 07:26 AM
The training center is in a seedy part of town. I wouldnt park my car there. All the vagabonds strolling around. Espescially those SOC people. Shady as hell....

dvtpilot
06-17-2018, 08:10 AM
The training center is in a seedy part of town. I wouldnt park my car there. All the vagabonds strolling around. Espescially those SOC people. Shady as hell....

Thatís Schedulingís new trick. They jack your stuff and hold it ransom until you complete the requisite 14 Tyler and Waco turns on your day off.

MD-11Loader
06-23-2018, 06:02 AM
Can anyone give a relatively accurate timeline for captain upgrade training on the 175? Full course, not qualified upgrade. Please and thank you.

FullThrust
06-23-2018, 06:16 AM
Can anyone give a relatively accurate timeline for captain upgrade training on the 175? Full course, not qualified upgrade. Please and thank you.

Itís the same footprint as initial new hire training training minus the week of basic indoc.

MD-11Loader
06-23-2018, 06:45 AM
Itís the same footprint as initial new hire training training minus the week of basic indoc.

Any delays?

So expect a week at the mothership, home for 10 days of CBTís. A week of systems and procedure trainers, then up to STL for the PV/SV and the sims?

CrowneVic
06-23-2018, 08:08 AM
Any delays?

So expect a week at the mothership, home for 10 days of CBT’s. A week of systems and procedure trainers, then up to STL for the PV/SV and the sims?

There is a sim in Dallas now, as well, which would have to bid for, of course. You may end up not having to go to STL, unless that is what you want.

Of recent, there were no delays to speak of. A break or two of 5-8 days, maybe. Of course, that could change if the numbers in class increase substantially.

Day one of systems to IOE complete was about six or seven weeks, with a few days here and there to go home. YMMV.

MD-11Loader
06-23-2018, 09:35 AM
There is a sim in Dallas now, as well, which would have to bid for, of course. You may end up not having to go to STL, unless that is what you want.

Of recent, there were no delays to speak of. A break or two of 5-8 days, maybe. Of course, that could change if the numbers in class increase substantially.

Day one of systems to IOE complete was about six or seven weeks, with a few days here and there to go home. YMMV.

Thanks. Iím making the decision between moving to the 175 or the letting them displace me to the 175. Honestly doing two long term events over the next year and a half doesnít bother me if I get the CRJ, but Iíd prefer the 175. I guess weíll see what the seniority gods dictate.