Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




KenNoisewaterMD
02-11-2018, 01:35 PM
If a non-aviation job offer came around, what would it have to look like for you to leave your airline job?

How would your airline job have to change for you to actively look to leave?


pokey9554
02-11-2018, 01:51 PM
It would have to look like Margot Robbie, and pay like the Nigerian lottery I won again yesterday.

I’ve been fortunate to work in many other industries. I can’t put a price on my time being my time. 121 aviation affords me that.

Peacock
02-11-2018, 02:23 PM
https://lunkiandsika.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/dumb-and-dumber-1994-movie-still-anna-anka-swedish-bikini-girl.png?w=300


Snuffaluffagus
02-11-2018, 05:19 PM
Stay-at-home dad minus the dad part with Sofia Vergara as my sugar mama.

angry tanker
02-11-2018, 06:24 PM
:DIt would have to look like Margot Robbie, and pay like the Nigerian lottery I won again yesterday.

I’ve been fortunate to work in many other industries. I can’t put a price on my time being my time. 121 aviation affords me that.

This!!!

Salukipilot4590
02-11-2018, 06:59 PM
Providing nighttime heat for Taylor Swift.

crxpilot
02-11-2018, 07:24 PM
I dont need to go to a non aviation job, just need about 2 million in the bank and I’m done!

busdriver12
02-11-2018, 09:06 PM
Maybe 100 million plus lottery payout.....otherwise I'm waiting five years until I'm 60.

Or maybe just a really crappy trip. Then I might retire early.

milesd
02-12-2018, 05:32 AM
Any challenging STEM job that pays well, has good culture and helps me build some career capital for future advancement. Unfortunately, I'd have to have those skills in order to get hired (and be younger), which I don't. Gosh to be 25 again. Would never have gotten into this mind numbing jobs.

dawgdriver
02-12-2018, 07:12 AM
$10 Starbucks card.

BobZ
02-12-2018, 09:40 AM
Maybe 100 million plus lottery payout.....otherwise I'm waiting five years until I'm 60.

Or maybe just a really crappy trip. Then I might retire early.

Ohh...idk. I mite just take the $40M net from that $100M win, and keep working cabo turns a few times a month for fun. :)

And id hire a taylor swift doppleganger to keep me warm at night. Lol!

SpeedyVagabond
02-12-2018, 10:21 AM
It would have to look like Margot Robbie, and pay like the Nigerian lottery I won again yesterday.


Lol. I’d leave for that too.

SpeedyVagabond
02-12-2018, 10:24 AM
Any challenging STEM job that pays well, has good culture and helps me build some career capital for future advancement. Unfortunately, I'd have to have those skills in order to get hired (and be younger), which I don't. Gosh to be 25 again. Would never have gotten into this mind numbing jobs.

Because being in a fluoro lit lab or factory doing the same thing every day, five days a week, for the same set time every day wouldn’t be mind numbing. Right? :rolleyes:

I’m a stem’er. Thankful every day I sip coffee watching the beautiful world going by and being highly compensated for it.

freezingflyboy
02-12-2018, 11:25 AM
It would have to look like Margot Robbie, and pay like the Nigerian lottery I won again yesterday.

I’ve been fortunate to work in many other industries. I can’t put a price on my time being my time. 121 aviation affords me that.

Ditto. Next to bartending, this has been the best job I've had for "leaving it at the door".

rickair7777
02-12-2018, 11:39 AM
I’m a stem’er. Thankful every day I sip coffee watching the beautiful world going by and being highly compensated for it.

x2.

Unless you're a world-class genius, airline aviation feels to me like a pinnacle for STEM types, most of my 9-5 STEM peers would trade me if they could. Astronaut would be better, but that's a lot of work too.

My tech field has been in the news lately... some experienced high-end specialists, cream-of-the-crop types, are in such demand right now that they are being offered $300K. And it's big news. Trust me, that $300K comes much easier in aviation. Not easy per se, but easier.

MasterOfPuppets
02-12-2018, 01:20 PM
It’s too bad Fire Fighting doesn’t pay more. Dated a girl who’s dad was Captain and worked 8 24hr shifts a month......150-200K with that sked? I’d leave to run into burning buildings.

Varsity
02-12-2018, 01:23 PM
x2.

Unless you're a world-class genius, airline aviation feels to me like a pinnacle for STEM types, most of my 9-5 STEM peers would trade me if they could. Astronaut would be better, but that's a lot of work too.

My tech field has been in the news lately... some experienced high-end specialists, cream-of-the-crop types, are in such demand right now that they are being offered $300K. And it's big news. Trust me, that $300K comes much easier in aviation. Not easy per se, but easier.

Going to have to disagree with you on both points. Most STEM types wold be bored as hell driving the same airplane to the same places over and over again. It's not nearly as technical as most new tech jobs today.

300K is only made by the same old out of touch guys squatting on the 20,000 jobs at the legacies that pay that. Nobody else in aviation makes that. This is evidenced by your post.

at6d
02-12-2018, 10:33 PM
Salma Hayek.

Or $250 million plus a B-25 with hangar, 3 spare engines, and a fuel farm.

redbone
02-12-2018, 10:37 PM
Going to have to disagree with you on both points. Most STEM types wold be bored as hell driving the same airplane to the same places over and over again. It's not nearly as technical as most new tech jobs today.

300K is only made by the same old out of touch guys squatting on the 20,000 jobs at the legacies that pay that. Nobody else in aviation makes that. This is evidenced by your post.
This job is most definitely mind numbing for certain types, including myself. It’s not the promise of future money that keeps me in the game it’s the schedule flexibility and travel benefits. If I were to lose either I’d be right back in the oilfield.

Ecca
02-13-2018, 05:17 AM
A soap on a rope in Cindy Crawford’s bathroom.

BobZ
02-13-2018, 05:25 AM
Great gig.

Until dick gere stays over.

Danger Close
02-13-2018, 05:58 AM
A soap on a rope in Cindy Crawford’s bathroom.

You mean that lady in the Rooms To Go commercials ? 😉

rickair7777
02-13-2018, 08:57 AM
Going to have to disagree with you on both points. Most STEM types wold be bored as hell driving the same airplane to the same places over and over again. It's not nearly as technical as most new tech jobs today.

I am a STEM type, and have had technical and management jobs outside of aviation. Some STEM jobs can be pretty mind-numbing as well. I actually enjoyed what I did, but had the aviation bug. As it turns out, aviation has provided a better QOL, and the career-total earnings will be higher. That's comparing W2 jobs, not anything like starting your own business of course.

I stay mentally engaged in the technical aspects of aviation, which is a pretty big playground encompassing many flavors of engineering and computer tech.



300K is only made by the same old out of touch guys squatting on the 20,000 jobs at the legacies that pay that. Nobody else in aviation makes that.

When the dust settles I think every NB CA in the US will top out at $300k or better.



This is evidenced by your post.

???

Dolphinflyer
02-13-2018, 09:50 AM
Subject pops up now and then, more so during the purgatory years of crap pay and CHP11 after 9/11.

Obviously we have plenty of guys with STEM and business backgrounds who did well during the time. Most were in their 30's and 40's.

What we tend not to hear during the "grass is always greener" discussions are the number of 50+ year olds in these other careers with great pay, bonuses, pensions and responsibility who are summarily terminated with no real hope of regaining similar positions at that age. The "Rockstars" of course tend to do well, but that bid position seems limited.

rickair7777
02-13-2018, 10:51 AM
What we tend not to hear during the "grass is always greener" discussions are the number of 50+ year olds in these other careers with great pay, bonuses, pensions and responsibility who are summarily terminated with no real hope of regaining similar positions at that age. The "Rockstars" of course tend to do well, but that bid position seems limited.

Pilots tend not to understand this. Once you've made it in the white-collar world... then you have to keep it. Every day. Every single day. And that includes days off.

Frankly if you're a highly paid, highly experienced (translation: old) worker you're either a rockstar or a target. Somebody can fire you, hire a 20-something for 1/3 your pay, and then claim a $15K bonus on their annual evaluation for efficiency.

CBreezy
02-13-2018, 12:51 PM
Pilots tend not to understand this. Once you've made it in the white-collar world... then you have to keep it. Every day. Every single day. And that includes days off.

Frankly if you're a highly paid, highly experienced (translation: old) worker you're either a rockstar or a target. Somebody can fire you, hire a 20-something for 1/3 your pay, and then claim a $15K bonus on their annual evaluation for efficiency.

That's what happened to my dad. He was a manager level and got comfortable then with 5 years until a full retirement, they laid him off.

tomgoodman
02-13-2018, 01:26 PM
I stay mentally engaged in the technical aspects of aviation, which is a pretty big playground encompassing many flavors of engineering and computer tech.

Plus meteorology, geography, public relations, and management.

“The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.”

It’s more enjoyable being a fox. ;)

SpeedyVagabond
02-13-2018, 04:20 PM
Going to have to disagree with you on both points. Most STEM types wold be bored as hell driving the same airplane to the same places over and over again. It's not nearly as technical as most new tech jobs today.

300K is only made by the same old out of touch guys squatting on the 20,000 jobs at the legacies that pay that. Nobody else in aviation makes that. This is evidenced by your post.

Well, I'm an ME graduate among other things and know with certainty I'd be bored senseless doing what my classmates do. And I make more than them, work far less, and the world is not just my oyster, but explored first class for a hundred bucks each way. You can have your "stimulating" stem job inside a structure somewhere with your non-natural lighting. I've ended up where I'm supposed to be.

Al Czervik
02-13-2018, 04:51 PM
Pilots tend not to understand this. Once you've made it in the white-collar world... then you have to keep it. Every day. Every single day. And that includes days off.

Frankly if you're a highly paid, highly experienced (translation: old) worker you're either a rockstar or a target. Somebody can fire you, hire a 20-something for 1/3 your pay, and then claim a $15K bonus on their annual evaluation for efficiency.

Just curious. What is considered “highly paid” in that world?

TransWorld
02-13-2018, 05:34 PM
Just curious. What is considered “highly paid” in that world?

About a dollar more than what I am paid.

Seriously, here are the percentile of all salaries in the US.

$38,000 - 50th percentile

$108,000 - 90th percentile

$150,000 - 95th percentile

$300,000 - 99th percentile

You decide where “highly paid” is. 90th percentile? 95th? 99th?

Al Czervik
02-13-2018, 06:31 PM
About a dollar more than what I am paid.

Seriously, here are the percentile of all salaries in the US.

$38,000 - 50th percentile

$108,000 - 90th percentile

$150,000 - 95th percentile

$300,000 - 99th percentile

You decide where “highly paid” is. 90th percentile? 95th? 99th?

Im sure you found the data, but this can’t be right.

TransWorld
02-13-2018, 06:37 PM
Im sure you found the data, but this can’t be right.

US Bureau of Labor Statistics. Help yourself.

You thinking of median household income, which is $61,000? The median income per person, not the entire household, is $38,000.

What seems off to you? Or does that clarify it?

Al Czervik
02-13-2018, 06:42 PM
US Bureau of Labor Statistics. Help yourself.

You thinking of median household income, which is $61,000? The median income per person, not the entire household, is $38,000.

What seems off to you? Or does that clarify it?

No, I get it. It just seems low.

rickair7777
02-13-2018, 07:33 PM
Just curious. What is considered “highly paid” in that world?

$200K

Base tech degree, say systems/electrical/computer engineer, is going to start at $80 (higher in places like the Bay), get up to $150-ish with no significant lead/management duties. If you want to manage (leading techies in your field, not so much MBA stuff), that can get you to $200.

Pure tech researchers making $300k in the Bay made the news recently. That's available to about the top 200 people in the field... as opposed to the 20,000 legacy pilots.

As was pointed out $150K is very high up the percentile ladder in the real world.

Senior military officers can push $200k, but like pilots, they have to retire early and it's hard for their spouses to develop lucrative careers while constantly moving.

TransWorld
02-13-2018, 09:16 PM
There are 160 million in the US workforce.

How many Pilots are there? How many Doctors? Lawyers? Engineers? Scientists? IT people? Corporate Executive? Hollywood stars? Sports stars? etc.

The 95th percentile ($150,000) and above is 8 million workers.
The 90th percentile ($108,000) and above is 16 million workers.

We work in a rarified air. But there are millions in that rarified air.

BoilerUP
02-14-2018, 12:00 AM
I know AIA-certified architects and electrical/mechanical/civil PEs with Masters degrees and 2+ decades of experience who make less salary than guarantee of a second year FO at the current “Big Six”...to say nothing of retirement and medical. They also are largely tied to a laptop/iPad or phone.

Lawyers are the same way; good pay but hours that would make a ACMI pilot from 25 years ago cry.

Pilots can be a myopic bunch at times...

If you want stimulation, get a hobby - you should be able to afford it.

BobZ
02-14-2018, 02:13 AM
Yup.........

Stratapilot
02-14-2018, 04:57 PM
One way moon or Mars colonist. I’d leave it for that.

Qotsaautopilot
02-14-2018, 10:27 PM
This job is most definitely mind numbing for certain types, including myself. It’s not the promise of future money that keeps me in the game it’s the schedule flexibility and travel benefits. If I were to lose either I’d be right back in the oilfield.

What did you do in oil?

at6d
02-15-2018, 02:06 AM
Maybe some Picasso or Renoir styles? LOL

crewdawg
02-15-2018, 03:33 AM
Im sure you found the data, but this can’t be right.

No, I get it. It just seems low.

No, we just live in a completely different world than many Americans. My first year at a Major, I made more than my parents have ever made (combined)...and they worked their butts off, to raise 3 children. For whatever reason most people see it as taboo to talk about what they make, but if they did, I think you'd be shocked. What we make would be absolutely mind boggling to the average American.

Check out the book Hillbilly Elegy.

SpeedyVagabond
02-15-2018, 10:11 AM
I know AIA-certified architects and electrical/mechanical/civil PEs with Masters degrees and 2+ decades of experience who make less salary than guarantee of a second year FO at the current “Big Six”...to say nothing of retirement and medical. They also are largely tied to a laptop/iPad or phone.

Lawyers are the same way; good pay but hours that would make a ACMI pilot from 25 years ago cry.

Pilots can be a myopic bunch at times...

If you want stimulation, get a hobby - you should be able to afford it.


Boiler, I’ve always enjoyed your posts. Another good one.

at6d
02-15-2018, 10:36 AM
But the flip side is that all of those folks could have decided to be pilots, too.

It took me nearly 20 years to get where I am, with many of those years working at poverty level wages and side jobs.

Bluesky1
02-15-2018, 10:46 AM
Pilots tend not to understand this. Once you've made it in the white-collar world... then you have to keep it. Every day. Every single day. And that includes days off.

Frankly if you're a highly paid, highly experienced (translation: old) worker you're either a rockstar or a target. Somebody can fire you, hire a 20-something for 1/3 your pay, and then claim a $15K bonus on their annual evaluation for efficiency.

Unless you work for yourself. 300K per year and home every night with no hotels (unless on vacation), no bidding to get special days off. TO each his own. That's what makes this such a great country. There is no right or wrong answer.

Al Czervik
02-15-2018, 11:24 AM
No, we just live in a completely different world than many Americans. My first year at a Major, I made more than my parents have ever made (combined)...and they worked their butts off, to raise 3 children. For whatever reason most people see it as taboo to talk about what they make, but if they did, I think you'd be shocked. What we make would be absolutely mind boggling to the average American.

Check out the book Hillbilly Elegy.

Yup. Got to take a step back every once in a while.

rickair7777
02-15-2018, 01:41 PM
Unless you work for yourself. 300K per year and home every night with no hotels (unless on vacation), no bidding to get special days off. TO each his own. That's what makes this such a great country. There is no right or wrong answer.

I did say that my discussion was about W2 workers, not business owners. That's a whole 'nother set of trade offs.

To get a small business to $300K free and clear and personal schedule flexibility involves it's own brand of dues paying. The safest and most predictable path there is probably fast-food franchises... but frankly I'd rather fly a jet, at least I can look out the window.



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