Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




Pages : [1] 2

Voski
02-12-2018, 07:53 AM
So they begin.

Block or better?
Republic pay rates?
Endeavor pay rates?
Something greater than 1% but less than inflation?


amcnd
02-12-2018, 08:53 AM
Block or better can just be manipulated again. Did Casper flight the other day. Probably the worst example. Credit was 1:40íish block 2:10íish. No deicing. We did it in 1:41.. got 1:41. Would the company just lower the ďBlockĒ...??... easy to drop it to 1:45 and still make the A14 goal 95% of the time. I would rather see $$íhr raise..match The other guys. And 1 extra day off a month in PBS, min Reserve levels of %20. If not meet then we get 150% over 80hrs flown.. faster User/Vac actual and more slots per week available...

word302
02-12-2018, 01:03 PM
Block or better can just be manipulated again. Did Casper flight the other day. Probably the worst example. Credit was 1:40íish block 2:10íish. No deicing. We did it in 1:41.. got 1:41. Would the company just lower the ďBlockĒ...??... easy to drop it to 1:45 and still make the A14 goal 95% of the time. I would rather see $$íhr raise..match The other guys. And 1 extra day off a month in PBS, min Reserve levels of %20. If not meet then we get 150% over 80hrs flown.. faster User/Vac actual and more slots per week available...

Except the company does not set block times, the partners do. I wish more people would educate themselves before spewing nonsense.


WesternSkies
02-12-2018, 01:29 PM
I do like the idea of 150% on every hour over ďxĒ scheduled when below min reserves for however many days per month in your base.

Minimum 3 Days off following a work block > 4 days.

+1 min day off for line holders

Dump the rig, implement a min leg guarantee of 1.0.
Min stand-up 5.30
1 for 1 pay on actual duty > 12 hours.

.0385 user time accrual for all years of service.

Any new hire bonus must be distributed to the entire pilot as well. If bonus is later increased the difference will be paid out again.

Reflow after check-in is voluntary but must pay 150% minimum.

Jerry Springer
02-12-2018, 02:54 PM
Any new hire bonus must be distributed to the entire pilot as well. If bonus is later increased the difference will be paid out again.


But then itís not a sign-on bonus...itís just a pay rise.

CRJ All Day
02-12-2018, 06:34 PM
Why didn't you guys just say no to your proposed pay 6 months ago?

RemoveB4Flight
02-12-2018, 06:54 PM
I did......

zondaracer
02-12-2018, 06:55 PM
Why didn't you guys just say no to your proposed pay 6 months ago?

To get more jetzzzzzzz!

WesternSkies
02-12-2018, 07:05 PM
Why didn't you guys just say no to your proposed pay 6 months ago?

Iím assuming you are assuming that the future would be now already.

tcco94
02-12-2018, 10:10 PM
Why didn't you guys just say no to your proposed pay 6 months ago?

We didn't want to go out of business like the rest of the regionals and they were going to buy 100 CRJ-900's. Oh and Republic and Endeavor only raised their pay because we raised ours 1% according to SAPA.

/sarcasm

rickair7777
02-13-2018, 06:09 AM
Except the company does not set block times, the partners do. I wish more people would educate themselves before spewing nonsense.

Yes. If block or better is something you want to pursue, it would need to be based on marketing block so it cannot be manipulated.

rickair7777
02-13-2018, 06:13 AM
Reflow after check-in is voluntary but must pay 150% minimum.

Why set a fixed rate for VOLUNTARY reflow? If they don't offer enough, then don't do it. That creates a free-market system, in some cases they'd probably offer 300%...

Invol reflow (of any sort) should have pay protection for what you bid PLUS at least 150% on the reflow.

N1234
02-13-2018, 06:58 AM
Why set a fixed rate for VOLUNTARY reflow? If they don't offer enough, then don't do it. That creates a free-market system, in some cases they'd probably offer 300%...

Invol reflow (of any sort) should have pay protection for what you bid PLUS at least 150% on the reflow.

Which would then set the cap to any market rate .... so it better be higher than 150%.

hawk21
02-13-2018, 10:14 AM
Our partners set the block times. Educate yourself on block or better and why we're getting screwed people. Block or better needs to be one of the top priorities.

After that, I would like to see incentives for more flying or pick ups on off days (percentage override after x hours awarded/ flown, automatically start at 150% and go up from there). I would also like to see compensation for ridiculously long sits whether scheduled or actual (mtx delays, etc). Get rid of "scheduled" and replace with "actual" for duty rigs. Too many instances of people getting paid 4-5 hours credit for a max FDP day (myself included). Complete crap and destroys morale.

Anything less than Republic hourly rates is an automatic no vote from me.

And stop proposing 5 year deals in this market.



*rant over*

Jerry Springer
02-13-2018, 10:38 AM
an automatic no vote from me.

Do you get to vote? What say do any of the pilots have in these talks?

rickair7777
02-13-2018, 10:44 AM
Which would then set the cap to any market rate .... so it better be higher than 150%.

There's no reason it would set the cap for market rate, the two are not related.

N1234
02-13-2018, 11:26 AM
There's no reason it would set the cap for market rate, the two are not related.

Of course they do. Once the voluntary reflow turns into an involuntary reflow there is a cap.

Just like not offering more than $800 for a denied boarding and then resort to call the airport cops for Chinese take-out.

amcnd
02-13-2018, 11:29 AM
Our partners set the block times. Educate yourself on block or better and why we're getting screwed people. Block or better needs to be one of the top priorities.

After that, I would like to see incentives for more flying or pick ups on off days (percentage override after x hours awarded/ flown, automatically start at 150% and go up from there). I would also like to see compensation for ridiculously long sits whether scheduled or actual (mtx delays, etc). Get rid of "scheduled" and replace with "actual" for duty rigs. Too many instances of people getting paid 4-5 hours credit for a max FDP day (myself included). Complete crap and destroys morale.

Anything less than Republic hourly rates is an automatic no vote from me.

And stop proposing 5 year deals in this market.



*rant over*

Chip ďdial up DL/UA/AS/AAĒ. Can you please trim all block hours for each flight by :15 mins. Thanks. Click...

hawk21
02-13-2018, 11:46 AM
Do you get to vote? What say do any of the pilots have in these talks?

What kind of question is this? Any TA proposal that is presented to the pilots gets voted on to be approved/ denied.

hawk21
02-13-2018, 11:47 AM
Chip ďdial up DL/UA/AS/AAĒ. Can you please trim all block hours for each flight by :15 mins. Thanks. Click...

And then on time performance tanks.

Bravix
02-13-2018, 12:41 PM
Chip ďdial up DL/UA/AS/AAĒ. Can you please trim all block hours for each flight by :15 mins. Thanks. Click...

...but why? Isn't that how company makes their money? :p

The more we block, the more company is going to make too. Our partners are keeping block as low as they deem reasonable already. SkyWest would only benefit from higher blocks.

hawk21
02-13-2018, 01:12 PM
...but why? Isn't that how company makes their money? :p

The more we block, the more company is going to make too. Our partners are keeping block as low as they deem reasonable already. SkyWest would only benefit from higher blocks.

The wizards in SGU would figure out the perfect balance on what would increase profits if they could control block times. The people running this company are incredibly smart.

word302
02-13-2018, 02:27 PM
The wizards in SGU would figure out the perfect balance on what would increase profits if they could control block times. The people running this company are incredibly smart.

I'll say it again. Skywest does not set marketing block, the partners do.

WesternSkies
02-13-2018, 04:10 PM
Why set a fixed rate for VOLUNTARY reflow? If they don't offer enough, then don't do it. That creates a free-market system, in some cases they'd probably offer 300%...

Invol reflow (of any sort) should have pay protection for what you bid PLUS at least 150% on the reflow.

Good point.

amcnd
02-13-2018, 04:58 PM
I'll say it again. Skywest does not set marketing block, the partners do.

You may want to check that. Its Partner specific.. do they audit them. Yes. But SkyWest is in control and has the ability to change block hours...

hawk21
02-13-2018, 05:01 PM
I'll say it again. Skywest does not set marketing block, the partners do.

I already said the exact same thing in my original post bud.

word302
02-13-2018, 05:31 PM
You may want to check that. Its Partner specific.. do they audit them. Yes. But SkyWest is in control and has the ability to change block hours...

Ugh. No they don't. The partners give us the flights/schedules, we figure out how to make it all work. Marketing block IS NOT manipulated by Skywest.

amcnd
02-13-2018, 05:47 PM
Ugh. No they don't. The partners give us the flights/schedules, we figure out how to make it all work. Marketing block IS NOT manipulated by Skywest.

What ever dude. I know how it works... Still think putting all our eggs in the block vs credit battle will backfire on us.. pay rates canít...

word302
02-13-2018, 05:50 PM
What ever dude. I know how it works... Still think putting all our eggs in the block vs credit battle will backfire on us.. pay rates canít...

Apparently you don't. Skywest CAN just continue to make the block vs credit differential even greater, negating any pay raises we get. It's really not that hard to do the math.

amcnd
02-13-2018, 06:05 PM
Apparently you don't. Skywest CAN just continue to make the block vs credit differential even greater, negating any pay raises we get. It's really not that hard to do the math.

So letís say extra 1hr difference between credit and block on my last local... that $116 dollars. Or we match Endeavor and i get just credit that $182 dollars more. i would take the match over block. Then if i flew block thatís another $144... Straight pay raise please...

word302
02-13-2018, 06:39 PM
So let’s say extra 1hr difference between credit and block on my last local... that $116 dollars. Or we match Endeavor and i get just credit that $182 dollars more. i would take the match over block. Then if i flew block that’s another $144... Straight pay raise please...

Why not both? I would like to take credit manipulation out of the company's hands. I would also like to be able to compare our rates to our competitors. Currently we can't. Besides that didn't you vote yes on the last package? You should be able to keep the suck you idiots stuck us with.

RemoveB4Flight
02-13-2018, 06:55 PM
I have to say, I like this side of amcnd better..realizing and admitting that we deserve to be compensated equal to that of the rest of the regional industry. Itís nice to see him not fighting us every step of the way and defend the company when they low ball us.
I hope you keep this attitude when it comes time to cast your vote.

As far as block or better. Skywest has no control over the market block time. That is given by our major partners. However, Skywest could give us a 10% raise and then reduce credit by 9% to settle at the 1% that we know and love. Or worse yet..offer us another lousy 1% and reduce credit 1% to completely negate the raise. Credit makes our entire pay scale illegitimate and unmeasurable.

amcnd
02-13-2018, 07:02 PM
I have 2 weeks vacation this fall. Block vs credit will not help me there. $144 Endeavor pay vs CRJ 200 base rate of $109 will effect my pay negatively... at 40 hrs thats $1400 difference.. im fine if 51% of the pilots want to get rid of block vs credit.. but will still be a joke at $109 a hr top pay vs $144.. no more selling out for some ďgimmickĒ... having a solid pay rate can never hurt you. We have no control as pilots over block times..

word302
02-13-2018, 07:04 PM
I have to say, I like this side of amcnd better..realizing and admitting that we deserve to be compensated equal to that of the rest of the regional industry. Itís nice to see him not fighting us every step of the way and defend the company when they low ball us.
I hope you keep this attitude when it comes time to cast your vote.

As far as block or better. Skywest has no control over the market block time. That is given by our major partners. However, Skywest could give us a 10% raise and then reduce credit by 9% to settle at the 1% that we know and love. Or worse yet..offer us another lousy 1% and reduce credit 1% to completely negate the raise. Credit makes our entire pay scale illegitimate and unmeasurable.

Yes this^^^ and I have never voted yes for any package here. Not even close.

word302
02-13-2018, 07:07 PM
I have 2 weeks vacation this fall. Block vs credit will not help me there. $144 Endeavor pay vs CRJ 200 base rate of $109 will effect my pay negatively... at 40 hrs thats $1400 difference.. im fine if 51% of the pilots want to get rid of block vs credit.. but will still be a joke at $109 a hr top pay vs $144.. no more selling out for some ďgimmickĒ... having a solid pay rate can never hurt you. We have no control as pilots over block times..

Lol. What you don't seem to understand is that just block or better with no pay raise (I'm not advocating for this at all) is about 5 times what we got in the last TA. Who cares about your 2 weeks of vacation. You should be more concerned with the other 50 weeks.

WesternSkies
02-13-2018, 07:12 PM
Tripping over dollars for pennies.
9e or bust

RemoveB4Flight
02-13-2018, 07:24 PM
Exactly! We should have block or better as a starting point just to make our scale comparable to others.
I donít think anyone is advocating just getting block or better.
Block or better plus industry leading pay should be how we BEGIN negotiations. If they arenít interested simply walk away. Iím fine waiting 5 years (if Iím still here), but I know the company isnít fine with it..they will have trouble filling classes long before I come crawling to them for more pay.

word302
02-13-2018, 08:24 PM
Exactly! We should have block or better as a starting point just to make our scale comparable to others.
I donít think anyone is advocating just getting block or better.
Block or better plus industry leading pay should be how we BEGIN negotiations. If they arenít interested simply walk away. Iím fine waiting 5 years (if Iím still here), but I know the company isnít fine with it..they will have trouble filling classes long before I come crawling to them for more pay.

If only our distinguished leader shared your sentiment. Sadly he will take whatever the company offers and then do his best to spin it. Hopefully enough people have finally learned their lesson. I doubt it unfortunately.

Check Complete
02-13-2018, 08:56 PM
If only our distinguished leader shared your sentiment. Sadly he will take whatever the company offers and then do his best to spin it. Hopefully enough people have finally learned their lesson. I doubt it unfortunately.

That will never happen as our esteemed leader would lose the company’s support, because that’s who pays him to be their 110 hr/ mth mouthpiece, and have to fly. The BS proposal will be accepted and nothing will change, amcnd will do his happy dance that credit pay prevails. And we will be the source of embarrassment for our profession.

In 20 years nothing has changed.

word302
02-13-2018, 10:56 PM
That will never happen as our esteemed leader would lose the companyís support, because thatís who pays him to be their 110 hr/ mth mouthpiece, and have to fly. The BS proposal will be accepted and nothing will change, amcnd will do his happy dance that credit pay prevails. And we will be the source of embarrassment for our profession.

In 20 years nothing has changed.


Sad but true.

N1234
02-14-2018, 04:12 AM
If only our distinguished leader shared your sentiment. Sadly he will take whatever the company offers and then do his best to spin it. Hopefully enough people have finally learned their lesson. I doubt it unfortunately.

He is still celebrating the last TA and how it paved the way for 9E and YX

msprj2
02-14-2018, 04:24 AM
A question for you guys. What is your credit per leg based on?
At 9e we are paid for credit not
Marketing block. Our credit per leg is the avg time itís taken on
That route for the last 12 months or so. We are paid the average time or our actual brake release to brake set time, which ever is more.

RemoveB4Flight
02-14-2018, 05:09 AM
A question for you guys. What is your credit per leg based on?
At 9e we are paid for credit not
Marketing block. Our credit per leg is the avg time itís taken on
That route for the last 12 months or so. We are paid the average time or our actual brake release to brake set time, which ever is more.

That is exactly how we are paid.

flydiamond
02-14-2018, 08:17 AM
A question for you guys. What is your credit per leg based on?
At 9e we are paid for credit not
Marketing block. Our credit per leg is the avg time itís taken on
That route for the last 12 months or so. We are paid the average time or our actual brake release to brake set time, which ever is more.

Also Endeavor here. We get paid the same way from what I understand. One hypothesis as to why it is not as big an issue at 9E is that the average is skewed higher by a few epic delays/extended taxi times in the northeast where Skywest has little flying. That time it took 2 hours to get decided at JFK or you were number 20 in line for takeoff at LGA with one runway in use really skews that average higher. Just a hypothesis though.

WesternSkies
02-14-2018, 08:36 AM
Block or better isnít really on the table.

word302
02-14-2018, 08:52 AM
Block or better isnít really on the table.

Then you walk away until it is. Why is this so hard to understand. The company only treats us like children because we let them.

N1234
02-14-2018, 09:02 AM
Then you walk away until it is. Why is this so hard to understand. The company only treats us like children because we let them.

Let's settle for 1.1% this time around....

hawk21
02-14-2018, 09:20 AM
Block or better isnít really on the table.

If you pay attention to the SAPA conference calls you would know that RJ is aware that's one of the pilot groups' top priority.

word302
02-14-2018, 09:32 AM
If you pay attention to the SAPA conference calls you would know that RJ is aware that's one of the pilot groups' top priority.

Among the other BS he spews, it's hard to know what to take seriously.

Bravix
02-14-2018, 09:54 AM
The worst part about not having block or better is how it effects our schedules (through bidding) and cancellation pay.

Sure, I can try and fly block to make the "correct" amount of hours. But I can't do that when flights are being cancelled because we're short on 200's for the day. Company sure loves it though!

hawk21
02-15-2018, 06:48 AM
Among the other BS he spews, it's hard to know what to take seriously.

Believe me I know but it was nice to at least hear him mention he's aware we want it.

KSCessnaDriver
02-15-2018, 10:50 AM
Also Endeavor here. We get paid the same way from what I understand. One hypothesis as to why it is not as big an issue at 9E is that the average is skewed higher by a few epic delays/extended taxi times in the northeast where Skywest has little flying. That time it took 2 hours to get decided at JFK or you were number 20 in line for takeoff at LGA with one runway in use really skews that average higher. Just a hypothesis though.

On top of that, the SAT (Scheduled Averaged Times) at 9E, are mutually agreed upon times by both the company and the union...

flysooner9
02-15-2018, 10:53 AM
Looking at starting back in the regional game with either 9E or SkyWest this summer. Wondering how serious you think these talks are? Any legit chances of getting 9E or at least Republic rates?

amcnd
02-15-2018, 11:00 AM
Looking at starting back in the regional game with either 9E or SkyWest this summer. Wondering how serious you think these talks are? Any legit chances of getting 9E or at least Republic rates?

It wouldnít be on the radar if something wasnít going to happen. Will we match them?? Will we exceeded them??? Who knows. .Most be serious, we just signed a 5 year deal under 9 months ago... if your ďstarting backĒ you could get soft landings..

flysooner9
02-15-2018, 11:03 AM
It wouldnít be on the radar if something wasnít going to happen. Will we match them?? Will we exceeded them??? Who knows. .Most be serious, we just signed a 5 year deal under 9 months ago... if your ďstarting backĒ you could get soft landings..

I flew for American Eagle for 3 years then left for pt91 corporate the last 4 years.

N1234
02-15-2018, 11:23 AM
Looking at starting back in the regional game with either 9E or SkyWest this summer. Wondering how serious you think these talks are? Any legit chances of getting 9E or at least Republic rates?

I seriously doubt we will get close to 9E or YX in straight hourly rates.

93Sierra
02-15-2018, 11:24 AM
Then we will have issues

trip
02-15-2018, 11:29 AM
Any legit chances of getting 9E or at least Republic rates?

I would say zero chance. They might throw some more bonus money around with fancy metrics but expect nothing substantial, we're filling classes just fine according to those in the know.

WesternSkies
02-15-2018, 12:37 PM
Iím also highly doubtful.
Though I have entertained voting yes for the first time if 9e is offered.

As previously stated I could see them doing a shell game which I assume
would mean the end of PPS. PPS is roughly a 10% bonus that does nothing for recruitment where wages would.

RemoveB4Flight
02-15-2018, 01:03 PM
Iím also highly doubtful.
Though I have entertained voting yes for the first time if 9e is offered.

As previously stated I could see them doing a shell game which I assume
would mean the end of PPS. PPS is roughly a 10% bonus that does nothing for recruitment where wages would.

I would be fine with removing our bonuses and topping 9E rates by a little bit, with some QOL items as well. Bonuses are subject to change. Hourly rate is more reliable in my opinion.

flysooner9
02-15-2018, 02:01 PM
For whatís wits worth 9E still has a 10k bonus plus the good rates.

WesternSkies
02-15-2018, 02:26 PM
For whatís wits worth 9E still has a 10k bonus plus the good rates.

wow, that is pretty amazing. I thought getting rid of the bonus was the whole point of the rates.

flydiamond
02-15-2018, 02:51 PM
wow, that is pretty amazing. I thought getting rid of the bonus was the whole point of the rates.

They got rid of the $23,000 retention bonus for all pilots on property ($20k first year). No other airline had any retention bonus that came close.

RemoveB4Flight
02-15-2018, 02:51 PM
Yeah wow. I guess I wasnít aware of 9E having a 10k bonus still. I thought the bonus was completely rolled into the hourly rate. Is it a performance bonus, profit sharing, or what?

zondaracer
02-15-2018, 03:17 PM
Yeah wow. I guess I wasnít aware of 9E having a 10k bonus still. I thought the bonus was completely rolled into the hourly rate. Is it a performance bonus, profit sharing, or what?

It is a new hire bonus.

Out West
02-15-2018, 04:24 PM
Still? I thought the APC profile stayed that the bonuses ended and itís all rolled in, including the new hire bonus?

DasSchwerin
02-15-2018, 04:52 PM
Newhire bonus was not rolled in, only retention. I believe we gave the company the ability to make it a 20k new hire bonus as well when they want to.

flydiamond
02-15-2018, 06:45 PM
Newhire bonus was not rolled in, only retention. I believe we gave the company the ability to make it a 20k new hire bonus as well when they want to.


Correct. Formerly, a new hire would get a $10k hiring bonus and $20k retention bonus over the first year. They split that $20k bonus into a $20 per hour raise for first year pay and. Other pay bands got $23 an hour raise.

RemoveB4Flight
02-15-2018, 07:06 PM
Ah ok. So itís just a one time deal then. Got my hopes up for a minute that we would have more negotiating power.
Thatís nice but we also offer the new hire $7,500 bonus but the other bonuses- performance, financial, and profit sharing are all additional and on going. Our new hire bonus is contingent on having experience though I think.

Cazadores
02-16-2018, 09:31 AM
Looking at starting back in the regional game with either 9E or SkyWest this summer. Wondering how serious you think these talks are? Any legit chances of getting 9E or at least Republic rates?



Endeavor beats SkyWest by every metric. The commuter policy makes the base issue moot. Go to Endeavor, be paid and treated as a valued professional.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

surfpilot1414
02-16-2018, 07:01 PM
Could these negotiations last all year and turn out to be nothing in the end? I mean if classes are still full why would they raise pay??

N1234
02-16-2018, 07:08 PM
Could these negotiations last all year and turn out to be nothing in the end? I mean if classes are still full why would they raise pay??

Good question.
There are lots of expectations raised. I suspect most people will be utterly disappointed ....

GSintercept
02-16-2018, 07:21 PM
Endeavor beats SkyWest by every metric. The commuter policy makes the base issue moot. Go to Endeavor, be paid and treated as a valued professional.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Driving home from work vs. a commuting clause is not equivalent. Stop hoping for a PM and getting the bonus for recruiting.

The reality is we have all the leverage. Will this massive pilot group come together and unite to get what we finally deserve is the big question. These negotiations should begin with the 9e pay rates and go from there. Nothing less should be accepted. Only time will tell.

Flymeaway
02-16-2018, 09:21 PM
Could these negotiations last all year and turn out to be nothing in the end? I mean if classes are still full why would they raise pay??

I suspect the biggest reason management wants to look at pay right now is the Captain situation. Pulling brand new people with no experience in the OO operation to go be captains is far less than ideal, and indicates a pretty big danger of simply being unable to fill upgrade classes going forward. As a result, I think any pay improvements we get will likely need to be structured in a way that encourages FOs to take the upgrade to the midwest.

Also, the folks in SGU aren't a bunch of dummies. They know that pay negotiations take time, and if we lag too far behind the other regionals in pay, that FO pool will dry up sooner rather than later as well.

Check Complete
02-17-2018, 07:23 AM
Good question.
There are lots of expectations raised. I suspect most people will be utterly disappointed ....

And that SkyWest will continue to utterly disappoint this industry.

We contribute nothing!

I will be sideways with amazement if anything substantial comes from these talks. We are so far down the ladder that it will be impossible to climb back up!

All the flight controls are frozen, both engines are on fire, hoping I drill this disaster into a nice sunny meadow filled with butterflies and unicorns.......

Jerry Springer
02-17-2018, 07:26 AM
Any idea when these new pay talks are meant to be finalized and implemented?

uncleowen
02-17-2018, 08:35 AM
Fall of 2022

SureJetStick
02-17-2018, 08:37 AM
What's your union doing about it?

Oh wait....:D

amcnd
02-17-2018, 08:41 AM
Lets see what FEB/MAR attrition numbers are.. if its bad. Then FAST. by summer. If its good for the company then by Christmas is my guess..

Cazadores
02-17-2018, 09:07 AM
Driving home from work vs. a commuting clause is not equivalent. Stop hoping for a PM and getting the bonus for recruiting.



The reality is we have all the leverage. Will this massive pilot group come together and unite to get what we finally deserve is the big question. These negotiations should begin with the 9e pay rates and go from there. Nothing less should be accepted. Only time will tell.


Hoping for a PM? Hehe, I guess I am hoping an Endeavor guy to contact me and maybe we can split it since I'll have to upgrade to an Endeavor base and commute anyway-might as well have a commuter plan and considerably more money. We need to stop paying a tax for the privilege of west coast bases, especially considering career progression requires a bid to Detroit, Atlanta or Chicago.

I don't hold out a lot of hope, the chief negotiator pretty much admonished us for making demands and insulted us for being disgusted with the last pay package. Half the pilot group is stubbornly ignorant to the industry and many of them steadfastly believe the company is doing them a favor by letting them work here.

Anyway, SkyWest has been good to me in many ways, but I can not recommend it to a pilot looking for regional airline employment for really any reason.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Mooneycfi
02-17-2018, 09:10 AM
Could these negotiations last all year and turn out to be nothing in the end? I mean if classes are still full why would they raise pay??

They are NOT filling classes, have you seen the skywest recruitment page? Those classes are 1/3 the size of last year's classes and thats being generous. As a new hire, if you plan on getting PIC time you will not be based anywhere west of minneapolis. There is no reason to come to skywest. Other carriers offer significantly more with the same bases. Endeavor is so backed up in their training department. They are hiring more per month and their pilot group is less than half of ours. You will gain more seniority with 50% more pay.

amcnd
02-17-2018, 10:54 AM
They are NOT filling classes, have you seen the skywest recruitment page? Those classes are 1/3 the size of last year's classes and thats being generous. As a new hire, if you plan on getting PIC time you will not be based anywhere west of minneapolis. There is no reason to come to skywest. Other carriers offer significantly more with the same bases. Endeavor is so backed up in their training department. They are hiring more per month and their pilot group is less than half of ours. You will gain more seniority with 50% more pay.

We dont do classes of 70 anymore. We do more frequent classes... so numerically we are still hiring the same. But smaller more frequent classes with the new class footprint...

NotMe
02-18-2018, 09:01 AM
When I left OO at the end of December, they were doing classes of 25 every two weeks - one ERJ class and two CRJ classes.

Just heading into Sims at 9E, and they are doing one class of 30 every two weeks.

OO has the capacity to train more pilots, but I donít know if those classes are full. 9E is at capacity.

I left OO for the exact reasons that Mooneycfi stated- Iím away from home just as much, but getting 50% more money now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Check Complete
02-18-2018, 05:50 PM
When I left OO at the end of December, they were doing classes of 25 every two weeks - one ERJ class and two CRJ classes.

Just heading into Sims at 9E, and they are doing one class of 30 every two weeks.

OO has the capacity to train more pilots, but I donít know if those classes are full. 9E is at capacity.

I left OO for the exact reasons that Mooneycfi stated- Iím away from home just as much, but getting 50% more money now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Glad to hear it!

Cazadores
02-19-2018, 07:10 AM
When I left OO at the end of December, they were doing classes of 25 every two weeks - one ERJ class and two CRJ classes.

Just heading into Sims at 9E, and they are doing one class of 30 every two weeks.

OO has the capacity to train more pilots, but I donít know if those classes are full. 9E is at capacity.

I left OO for the exact reasons that Mooneycfi stated- Iím away from home just as much, but getting 50% more money now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



Just curious, how long were you at OO?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Flogger
02-19-2018, 01:31 PM
Driving home from work vs. a commuting clause is not equivalent. Stop hoping for a PM and getting the bonus for recruiting.

The reality is we have all the leverage. Will this massive pilot group come together and unite to get what we finally deserve is the big question. These negotiations should begin with the 9e pay rates and go from there. Nothing less should be accepted. Only time will tell.

Leverage?

It's cute the way you think that.

gojo
02-19-2018, 01:56 PM
Leverage?

It's cute the way you think that.

In reality they probably had more leverage the last time. Skywest was going to get the planes anyway. And they sold the contract claiming that itíll help them grow. Now they know they have a big percentage of the group that will settle for mediocre gains

Is offline
02-20-2018, 06:12 AM
With the executive board that is in place I see no meaningful gains being made. I think they are already so far behind we will be the next losing aircraft due to staffing issues. Why anyone would come here to fly 95 hours with 11 days off and be paid $20,000 less is beyond me.

popNfresh
02-20-2018, 06:33 AM
How about airlines pay us for duty time. A fair days pay for a fair days work.
Airlines-naw

hawk21
02-20-2018, 08:47 AM
Now they're chipping away at performance bonuses.

TFAYD

GearUpHeadDown
02-20-2018, 08:59 AM
I bid 20% and just got 98hr/11 days off.. none on weekends. Iíve had 14-17 and weekends off for the past year and a half.

They are abusing us to cover for their mismanagement of the company. Itís not fair and none of us should have to sacrifice our own lives for it. We are being used to benefit executives and shareholders.

Nobody should come here right now unless you live in base and can drive to work comfortably or there is a drastic improvement in pay/qol.

GearUpHeadDown
02-20-2018, 09:00 AM
Now they're chipping away at performance bonuses.

TFAYD

Itís time to start dropping the brake 1 min late.

nopantsILS
02-20-2018, 10:03 AM
With the executive board that is in place I see no meaningful gains being made. I think they are already so far behind we will be the next losing aircraft due to staffing issues. Why anyone would come here to fly 95 hours with 11 days off and be paid $20,000 less is beyond me.

Completely agree. OO is headed toward an epic performance meltodwn RAH style this summer.

flysooner9
02-20-2018, 11:25 AM
For what itís worth I was able to schedule an interview within 3 days of being called. Seems to tell me theyíre struggling recruiting.

Is offline
02-20-2018, 11:45 AM
For what itís worth I was able to schedule an interview within 3 days of being called. Seems to tell me theyíre struggling recruiting.

Someone just said they cancelled the last CTP class.

amcnd
02-20-2018, 11:57 AM
Someone just said they cancelled the last CTP class.

There is one that just started in denver yesterday (Monday February 19th)..

Majerus
02-20-2018, 12:17 PM
For what itís worth I was able to schedule an interview within 3 days of being called. Seems to tell me theyíre struggling recruiting.

This has been normal for the last couple of years.

WesternSkies
02-20-2018, 12:34 PM
The good news is that they are making a metric crap-ton more now then just a few years ago.
A few years ago a modest raise would have drained every cent of profit.

The money part has changed but has their thought process? Who knows.
Wall Street noticed the extra income and shot the price higher by buying.

Wall st.
Regional mentality
Iím not optimistic until we really take a good RAH dump.

hawk21
02-20-2018, 01:21 PM
The good news is that they are making a metric crap-ton more now then just a few years ago.
A few years ago a modest raise would have drained every cent of profit.

The money part has changed but has their thought process? Who knows.
Wall Street noticed the extra income and shot the price higher by buying.

Wall st.
Regional mentality
Iím not optimistic until we really take a good RAH dump.

If you look at the last earnings report our income is up but what was more surprising to me was our expenses were waaaaay down.

Bassetjet
02-20-2018, 04:15 PM
SAPA voted to keep new hires able to vote on pay packages, ignoring our pilot poll that said we should restrict new hire voting until one year seniority.

Cefiro
02-20-2018, 04:48 PM
SAPA voted to keep new hires able to vote on pay packages, ignoring our pilot poll that said we should restrict new hire voting until one year seniority.

Iím sure the company wants new hires to be able to vote as they are typically easier to sway.

RemoveB4Flight
02-20-2018, 05:30 PM
SAPA voted to keep new hires able to vote on pay packages, ignoring our pilot poll that said we should restrict new hire voting until one year seniority.

Not exactly the entire story..
There is going to be another vote. Nothing has even been decided from this one.
Also, the reps didnít even see the results of what the pilots wanted. Now they have so we will see what the next vote counts.. the vote that actually matters.

hawk21
02-20-2018, 05:31 PM
SAPA voted to keep new hires able to vote on pay packages, ignoring our pilot poll that said we should restrict new hire voting until one year seniority.

Not the full story bud.

surfpilot1414
02-20-2018, 06:04 PM
Not exactly the entire story..
There is going to be another vote. Nothing has even been decided from this one.
Also, the reps didnít even see the results of what the pilots wanted. Now they have so we will see what the next vote counts.. the vote that actually matters.

Whatís been voted on??

hawk21
02-20-2018, 06:28 PM
Whatís been voted on??

Restricting new hire voting eligibility.

TenaciousB
02-20-2018, 06:51 PM
Iím sure the company wants new hires to be able to vote as they are typically easier to sway.

Not all of us. I guarantee you my vote is not to managementís advantage. I did grow up in an airline union family so maybe my perspective isnít typical but that doesnít mean I donít speak my mind around my fellow new hires about these issues.

Iím open to restricting voting up until a certain time frame but after commuting to reserve for 6 months I think many would have a good perspective.

trip
02-20-2018, 06:52 PM
SAPA voted to keep new hires able to vote on pay packages, ignoring our pilot poll that said we should restrict new hire voting until one year seniority.

Not only ignoring it but refusing to see it for fear of being"influenced".

Is offline
02-20-2018, 07:39 PM
There was more to the story but the rod knew how the pilot group felt. This has been no secret and they still voted it down.

flyfast2u
02-20-2018, 09:32 PM
SAPA voted to keep new hires able to vote on pay packages, ignoring our pilot poll that said we should restrict new hire voting until one year seniority.


I've been here for seven months and I damn sure want to vote

word302
02-20-2018, 11:14 PM
I've been here for seven months and I damn sure want to vote

You can...in another 5 months.

rnfnr
02-21-2018, 04:45 AM
I've been here for seven months and I damn sure want to vote

You can...in another 5 months.

I've been here 9 months and I think waiting for
the 1 year anniversary to obtain voting eligibility
is fair, IMO.

When I was in sims last summer, ALL of the instructors
were pushing the yes vote...really hard. Newhires are
too easily swayed. I had a whopping 3 months with the
company under my belt when the last TA came around.
Looking back on it I don't think it was right for anyone
with such infantile seniority, including myself, be allowed
to vote.

Utah
02-21-2018, 09:16 AM
Management had meetings with the instructors telling them to push the yes vote on the pay package.

amcnd
02-21-2018, 09:34 AM
Management had meetings with the instructors telling them to push the yes vote on the pay package.

Not true.... they told instructors to encourage pilots to vote and see the upside to a yes vote, being growth, stability, and opportunity.. they never told us to sell a yes vote..

Check Complete
02-21-2018, 10:01 AM
Not true.... they told instructors to encourage pilots to vote and see the upside to a yes vote, being growth, stability, and opportunity.. they never told us to sell a yes vote..

Dead ****ing wrong!

I know what I heard!

SirLurksalot
02-21-2018, 10:17 AM
Not true.... they told instructors to encourage pilots to vote and see the upside to a yes vote, being growth, stability, and opportunity.. they never told us to sell a yes vote..

That sounds exactly like selling a yes vote

Utah
02-21-2018, 10:32 AM
That sounds exactly like selling a yes vote

And that's why the company wanted new hires to be eligible to vote. And SAPA agreed to it.

hawk21
02-21-2018, 11:16 AM
Not true.... they told instructors to encourage pilots to vote and see the upside to a yes vote, being growth, stability, and opportunity.. they never told us to sell a yes vote..

Please explain how that is any different? Either way the instructors were pushing it on new hires that didn't know any better. My friends that were sitting in class made it sound like they were using scare tactics to get yes votes.

amcnd
02-21-2018, 11:16 AM
Dead ****ing wrong!

I know what I heard!

So do i!! And then you will know there were 6 meetings.. And in no way did they say ďsell yes votes or elseĒ....

trip
02-21-2018, 11:22 AM
So do i!! And then you will know there were 6 meetings.. And in no way did they say ďsell yes votes or elseĒ....

Come on, we're not stupid.

amcnd
02-21-2018, 11:33 AM
Come on, we're not stupid.

They told us the pros/cons of a yes/no. But never felt if I didnít sell it i was lut of a instructor job... i agree. Were about to have a full meltdown.. if they dont march pay/Qol soon. Will be in thermal runaway...

trip
02-21-2018, 12:11 PM
They told us the pros/cons of a yes/no. But never felt if I didnít sell it i was lut of a instructor job... i agree. Were about to have a full meltdown.. if they dont march pay/Qol soon. Will be in thermal runaway...

So did you sell it to new hires?

Caution Terrain
02-21-2018, 12:32 PM
The truth is they all sold it. Hard. As in, you guys know Iím not supposed to say anything but youíre a cool guy and Iím a cool guy so, weíre getting a bunch of planes. You guys will get west coast upgrades faster if you vote for it. There was literally one instructor in the SLC flight safety that was brutally honest about it being garbage.

How can SAPA be our unified voice if they poll us about new hire voting, we tell them, and then they vote the other way? New hires werenít able to vote when I started and somehow this got pushed through in the night.
Unions arenít everything, but if you use them effectively, it enforces certain action on the companies part. There is a grievance process that cannot be ignored, at will. It adds up to legally, enforceable action.

Sure, tell me Iím wrong and that weíre all doing fine over here. Like I never worked anywhere else.
We will barely make it through 2018 with the 45 airframes and attrition. 2019 and beyond is questionable.

rickair7777
02-21-2018, 01:33 PM
This is why NOBODY lets new-hires vote...

MidnightHauler
02-21-2018, 02:01 PM
This is why NOBODY lets new-hires vote...
Actually, many new hires I talked to voted no, a few hundred didn't vote at all, yet a few senior captains I talked to voted yes. Many new hires had nothing to do with this garbage since most of them had no clue what the hell that TA involved. There were a ton of 10+ year pilots who voted yes because of the increased 401K contribution.
Just so you now, I've been here a little less than two years and voted no. I was hoping for a little more negotiation as far as pay raises, but didn't expect rainbows and unicorns either.

word302
02-21-2018, 04:41 PM
I've been here 9 months and I think waiting for
the 1 year anniversary to obtain voting eligibility
is fair, IMO.

When I was in sims last summer, ALL of the instructors
were pushing the yes vote...really hard. Newhires are
too easily swayed. I had a whopping 3 months with the
company under my belt when the last TA came around.
Looking back on it I don't think it was right for anyone
with such infantile seniority, including myself, be allowed
to vote.

This guy gets it.

word302
02-21-2018, 04:48 PM
Actually, many new hires I talked to voted no, a few hundred didn't vote at all, yet a few senior captains I talked to voted yes. Many new hires had nothing to do with this garbage since most of them had no clue what the hell that TA involved. There were a ton of 10+ year pilots who voted yes because of the increased 401K contribution.
Just so you now, I've been here a little less than two years and voted no. I was hoping for a little more negotiation as far as pay raises, but didn't expect rainbows and unicorns either.

The new hires I have talked to that voted yes regret it. They also support limiting new hire voting for that very reason.

RemoveB4Flight
02-21-2018, 04:49 PM
Actually, many new hires I talked to voted no, a few hundred didn't vote at all, yet a few senior captains I talked to voted yes. Many new hires had nothing to do with this garbage since most of them had no clue what the hell that TA involved. There were a ton of 10+ year pilots who voted yes because of the increased 401K contribution.
Just so you now, I've been here a little less than two years and voted no. I was hoping for a little more negotiation as far as pay raises, but didn't expect rainbows and unicorns either.

Regardless of how they voted in the previous TA, they shouldnít be allowed. This would eliminate any reason for management and/or instructors to sell new hires on voting.
Especially considering that new hires havenít had any chance to experience working for Skywest yet, how could they possibly have formed an opinion on what they would like to change about it?

MidnightHauler
02-21-2018, 05:57 PM
The new hires I have talked to that voted yes regret it. They also support limiting new hire voting for that very reason.
I heard there were around 700 or so that didn't vote at all. Would've been nice to have full participation.

sheriff5113
02-21-2018, 06:23 PM
I don't think I can do it any more team...and it just doesn't make sense how we get paid so little but have such insane responsibility.

I'm venting: I left my last career as a Peace Officer because of all the pilot shortage hype. Pay was supposed to be getting better and QOL. However, My paychecks are between $943.00 and $1034.00. I went from making 85k a year to less than 24k with no relief in sight.

There is absolutely no flying to be had and it's impossible to pick up trips to make some extra cheddar while on reserve since we cannot fly on reserve days. Also, for QOL I have to commute to my base, and I'm away 18 days of the month. Never see the family.

It's only been 9 months, and my peers and Captains are encouraging, "Hang in there man, it gets better," but honestly I can't afford this lifestyle anymore. Good luck ya'll. Hope you all make it to where you wanna go.

hawk21
02-21-2018, 06:33 PM
There is absolutely no flying to be had and it's impossible to pick up trips to make some extra cheddar while on reserve since we cannot fly on reserve days.

Do we work at the same airline? You must be on the 175 in Chicago.

amcnd
02-21-2018, 06:39 PM
I don't think I can do it any more team...and it just doesn't make sense how we get paid so little but have such insane responsibility.

I'm venting: I left my last career as a Peace Officer because of all the pilot shortage hype. Pay was supposed to be getting better and QOL. However, My paychecks are between $943.00 and $1034.00. I went from making 85k a year to less than 24k with no relief in sight.

There is absolutely no flying to be had and it's impossible to pick up trips to make some extra cheddar while on reserve since we cannot fly on reserve days. Also, for QOL I have to commute to my base, and I'm away 18 days of the month. Never see the family.

It's only been 9 months, and my peers and Captains are encouraging, "Hang in there man, it gets better," but honestly I can't afford this lifestyle anymore. Good luck ya'll. Hope you all make it to where you wanna go.

Tuff call. I would say hang in there. Don't do a rash move. Take some time to think about what you would feel like in 2-3 years. I have seen a few guys give up and boy do they miss flying. A few trying to get back into it.. Just ran into a guy that came back. Left OO after 10 years to go to culinary school. Cooked around the world for 3 years. Then realized that was tuff, also 12-14hr days, to much partying, and turned into just a job... Hes back and already Captain after 3 months..

DelTacoBowl
02-21-2018, 07:19 PM
Cant blame this person one bit. I am/was in the exact same boat, $900 dollar paychecks and no extra flying to be got. There are in fact 2 separate airlines happening here. On the 175 in Seattle I am just sitting around scouring open time, never get called on reserve. When I do its some ridiculous pairing (last week I deadheaded 4 legs to fly one 25 min leg, Ended up being an 17 hr day and I got paid for 7:14). People on the CRJ are timing out back east. Seems like they could balance the people across the system better?

This regional industry is ridiculous and should not exist. I hope Delta and United follow through and bring this flying back in house. More mainline jobs is better for all pilots in my opinion.

My hari krishnas were just answered and I just got hired by mainline but geez I was starting to get discouraged. Much respect to all of you who have been grinding this out for 10 years etc. I will be pushing every OO pilot I can at my new company to get as many out as possible.

I would not blame or judge this person one bit for bailing. I was beginning to look at study material to become a fire fighter when they called. No joke, starting pay is 80k and you work 10-12 days a month on average. And of course the chicks you get from being on one of those fire fighter calendars.

I don't think I can do it any more team...and it just doesn't make sense how we get paid so little but have such insane responsibility.

I'm venting: I left my last career as a Peace Officer because of all the pilot shortage hype. Pay was supposed to be getting better and QOL. However, My paychecks are between $943.00 and $1034.00. I went from making 85k a year to less than 24k with no relief in sight.

There is absolutely no flying to be had and it's impossible to pick up trips to make some extra cheddar while on reserve since we cannot fly on reserve days. Also, for QOL I have to commute to my base, and I'm away 18 days of the month. Never see the family.

It's only been 9 months, and my peers and Captains are encouraging, "Hang in there man, it gets better," but honestly I can't afford this lifestyle anymore. Good luck ya'll. Hope you all make it to where you wanna go.

Utah
02-21-2018, 07:19 PM
I don't think I can do it any more team...and it just doesn't make sense how we get paid so little but have such insane responsibility.

I'm venting: I left my last career as a Peace Officer because of all the pilot shortage hype. Pay was supposed to be getting better and QOL. However, My paychecks are between $943.00 and $1034.00. I went from making 85k a year to less than 24k with no relief in sight.

There is absolutely no flying to be had and it's impossible to pick up trips to make some extra cheddar while on reserve since we cannot fly on reserve days. Also, for QOL I have to commute to my base, and I'm away 18 days of the month. Never see the family.

It's only been 9 months, and my peers and Captains are encouraging, "Hang in there man, it gets better," but honestly I can't afford this lifestyle anymore. Good luck ya'll. Hope you all make it to where you wanna go.

In another year or two you'll be a line holding captain in NY or BNA making $100k. Yeah the commuting will still suck, but once these Delta 175s show up ORD is going to change.

701EV
02-21-2018, 08:58 PM
To my SkyWest brothers, tell Chip you want the ASA PBS System or go pack sand... Then watch the vein on his forehead EXPLODE!!

:D

Cruz5350
02-21-2018, 10:41 PM
I spent 4 years at OO and can safely say that between the 175 and CRJ itís two completely different airlines. I couldnít stand the CRJ in the beginning and bailed to the 175 as soon as my seatlock was up, but my timing made all the difference. I never sat reserve in the 175 and moved up about 10% every month as the fleet expanded. My last year on it I was displaced from 3/4ís of my trips and with nothing to pick up I just sat at home and enjoyed my days off. That only amounted to about 55-60k a year and yes I wanted more but for the time being it worked. I knew my time was limited and upgrade was coming so I chose the CRJ for the ability to fly my butt off and move on with my career. When people say it will get better what they should really mean is when you leave... even at 50% in a junior base I never held more than 11-13 days off a month with 90+ hours of block unless I had standups mixed in. I realized very quickly that this wasnít the place I wanted to spend anymore time at and flew as much as I could in the hopes that I could move on to mainline and luckily my tenure was realively short. If you put the time and effort in I believe everyone who wants to move on will but youíre going to earn every one of those hours in your logbook and every dollar you take home. PM if you have any questions Iím always willing to lend an ear or give my two cents on an issue.

MidnightHauler
02-22-2018, 12:03 AM
I spent 4 years at OO and can safely say that between the 175 and CRJ itís two completely different airlines. I couldnít stand the CRJ in the beginning and bailed to the 175 as soon as my seatlock was up, but my timing made all the difference. I never sat reserve in the 175 and moved up about 10% every month as the fleet expanded. My last year on it I was displaced from 3/4ís of my trips and with nothing to pick up I just sat at home and enjoyed my days off. That only amounted to about 55-60k a year and yes I wanted more but for the time being it worked. I knew my time was limited and upgrade was coming so I chose the CRJ for the ability to fly my butt off and move on with my career. When people say it will get better what they should really mean is when you leave... even at 50% in a junior base I never held more than 11-13 days off a month with 90+ hours of block unless I had standups mixed in. I realized very quickly that this wasnít the place I wanted to spend anymore time at and flew as much as I could in the hopes that I could move on to mainline and luckily my tenure was realively short. If you put the time and effort in I believe everyone who wants to move on will but youíre going to earn every one of those hours in your logbook and every dollar you take home. PM if you have any questions Iím always willing to lend an ear or give my two cents on an issue.
Very well said. I'm getting close to jumping in the same boat and have a tough decision to make. Transition to the 175 or upgrade on CRJ. I live in base now, but will have to commute either way if I transition or upgrade. Makes me think I should get on with the upgrade, commute, get the PIC time, and move on.

Check Complete
02-22-2018, 02:31 AM
Putting together exit plans too.

Except I live in base, bid very senior CRJ Ca, can hold almost any line I want. As for time off, I just call off, donít care.

5 years ago, a self described lifer.

Hoping to be out of here in less 3 months!

I prod every FO I fly with (because I usually pair with senior ones) to get their resume out and get the **** out, this place is that bad.

This is the last place Iíd recommend anybody come to.

To the former peace officer a few posts back, first of all thanks for your service. But honestly, itís going to be at least 5 years before you even have any semblance of a QOL. And forget upgrading because it just starts over again but slower progression.

Is it worth forgoing your family for?

Green Needles
02-22-2018, 10:05 AM
I don't think I can do it any more team...and it just doesn't make sense how we get paid so little but have such insane responsibility.

I'm venting: I left my last career as a Peace Officer because of all the pilot shortage hype. Pay was supposed to be getting better and QOL. However, My paychecks are between $943.00 and $1034.00. I went from making 85k a year to less than 24k with no relief in sight.

There is absolutely no flying to be had and it's impossible to pick up trips to make some extra cheddar while on reserve since we cannot fly on reserve days. Also, for QOL I have to commute to my base, and I'm away 18 days of the month. Never see the family.

It's only been 9 months, and my peers and Captains are encouraging, "Hang in there man, it gets better," but honestly I can't afford this lifestyle anymore. Good luck ya'll. Hope you all make it to where you wanna go.

You could have just as easily gone to a regional other than SkyWest and easily made $60k+ your first year and had a fast upgrade. Instead you chose an airline whose pilots don't know what they're worth and voted in abysmal payscales during one of the best pilot's markets in history.

Cazadores
02-22-2018, 10:16 AM
I don't think I can do it any more team...and it just doesn't make sense how we get paid so little but have such insane responsibility.



I'm venting: I left my last career as a Peace Officer because of all the pilot shortage hype. Pay was supposed to be getting better and QOL. However, My paychecks are between $943.00 and $1034.00. I went from making 85k a year to less than 24k with no relief in sight.



There is absolutely no flying to be had and it's impossible to pick up trips to make some extra cheddar while on reserve since we cannot fly on reserve days. Also, for QOL I have to commute to my base, and I'm away 18 days of the month. Never see the family.



It's only been 9 months, and my peers and Captains are encouraging, "Hang in there man, it gets better," but honestly I can't afford this lifestyle anymore. Good luck ya'll. Hope you all make it to where you wanna go.



Why not just change airlines? 9 months is nothing, and during that time you've accumulated some 121 time. Go somewhere with a bonus, higher base pay, and maybe even some sort of mainline career progression opportunity. Leaving the industry at this point just makes no sense.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

TheWeatherman
02-22-2018, 10:22 AM
This goes to show you how fast things can change in the Regional industry. When I was researching Regionals as a CFI time building in 2016 and 17, everybody and their mother told me to go to Skywest.

Then they signed this agreement that locked them into being one of the lowest paying regionals in the industry for the next 4 years. I even interviewed and had a job offer but chose to go elsewhere after that agreement was voted yes. Wow, dodged a bullet with this one.

sn00p
02-22-2018, 11:31 AM
This goes to show you how fast things can change in the Regional industry. When I was researching Regionals as a CFI time building in 2016 and 17, everybody and their mother told me to go to Skywest.

Then they signed this agreement that locked them into being one of the lowest paying regionals in the industry for the next 4 years. I even interviewed and had a job offer but chose to go elsewhere after that agreement was voted yes. Wow, dodged a bullet with this one.

Iím honestly happy that you chose wisely.

But if you are still at a Regional there are many more bullets to dodge, so I wouldnít celebrate yet.

hawk21
02-22-2018, 12:10 PM
This industry is cyclical. Ride out the waves people. People ditching for the money will be complaining 1-2 years from now when SkyWest finally decides to pay us what we are worth.

I agree the last TA was garbage FWIW. That's what they're already back at the negotiating table less than a year later.

WesternSkies
02-22-2018, 12:20 PM
This goes to show you how fast things can change in the Regional industry. When I was researching Regionals as a CFI time building in 2016 and 17, everybody and their mother told me to go to Skywest.

Then they signed this agreement that locked them into being one of the lowest paying regionals in the industry for the next 4 years. I even interviewed and had a job offer but chose to go elsewhere after that agreement was voted yes. Wow, dodged a bullet with this one.

You'll never be able to guess what will happen next year in this game.
Many "dodged" a bullet or pulled the chute at Republic, 9E and Eagle only be now looking to get back in at the bottom. Posting this in the "new" pay talk thread 7 months after being "locked" down for 5 years highlights this.
I hope your choices work out the best for you and you going else where will only help drive our ability to negotiate.

TheWeatherman
02-22-2018, 12:30 PM
You'll never be able to guess what will happen next year in this game.
Many "dodged" a bullet or pulled the chute at Republic, 9E and Eagle only be now looking to get back in at the bottom. Posting this in the "new" pay talk thread 7 months after being "locked" down for 5 years highlights this.
I hope your choices work out the best for you and you going else where will only help drive our ability to negotiate.
It wasn't just the pay, I heard some of the reserve horror stories while I was applying. Met someone who was on reserve for over a year in ORD for the ERJ. Some of the comments in this thread support that. There were a lot of blind cheerleaders for Skywest on here when I was applying and I saw right through that.

flysooner9
02-22-2018, 12:35 PM
It wasn't just the pay, I heard some of the reserve horror stories while I was applying. Met someone who was on reserve for over a year in ORD for the ERJ. Some of the comments in this thread support that. There were a lot of blind cheerleaders for Skywest on here when I was applying and I saw right through that.

Oh the horror, a whole year of reserve.

TheWeatherman
02-22-2018, 12:41 PM
Oh the horror, a whole year of reserve.
....or go elsewhere with less time on reserve, more pay, and another guaranteed day off per month.

Fixnem2Flyinem
02-22-2018, 12:41 PM
I was pretty upset with why I left OO and the situation that caused my departure. Looking back on it, it was a blessing in disguise. Iím now based at home, get paid more money and got an extra 15k in the way of a bonus. I will also be able to upgrade and stay in the same domicile in the next year, OO I wouldíve had to wait another 4 or 5 years to upgrade without commuting..

When I got hired at OO it was the place to go. Now itís falling behind quickly, I feel bad for my friends at OO and all the great people that work hard there but I laugh at the thought of TG wondering where all his pilots are... I have talked numerous people out of going to OO just with the fact that they are going to be commuting cross country for PIC if they donít move to ATL or DTW.

Is offline
02-22-2018, 12:47 PM
It wasn't just the pay, I heard some of the reserve horror stories while I was applying. Met someone who was on reserve for over a year in ORD for the ERJ. Some of the comments in this thread support that. There were a lot of blind cheerleaders for Skywest on here when I was applying and I saw right through that.

There are two different companies at skywest. There is the SLC skywest and then everyone else.

nopantsILS
02-22-2018, 12:55 PM
There are really no reasons to come to SKW in the current climate. The exception might be a DTW or ATL person with CA eligible times who can take advantage of soft landings. Or maybe a previous career retiree who lives in BOI or SAN.

Compass and Horizion offer bonuses and West coast upgrade opportunities. You might be able to get in out West as an FO at OO, but all the West coast captain seats are filled by current pilots for years and years to come.

However, this is the regionals. I would caution against spiking the ball in another carriers thread. Who knows what will happen by this time next year.

flysooner9
02-22-2018, 01:11 PM
My scenario is I have previous 121 time. However not enough total time for the majors (at least to be competitive) I live in the Midwest. Can one leg it to most airline bases except NYC. Canít afford to be a FO so I need somewhere I can get the immediate upgrade. Pretty much leaves me with Skywest, Envoy, and Endeavor. Envoy they would force me to NY for the foreseeable future and it would be a 2 leg commute to rsv. Endeavor has fantastic pay and good schedules. however the entire pipeline from application to IOE is severely clogged right now. Could be looking at a year from now until Iíd be on the line. Also possibility of getting stuck in NYC for a while. Skywest sounds like I could easily get a CA seat in ATL. Relatively easy commute. Also sounds like Iíd be flying a ton which is my number one reason Iím leaving my current job (not getting enough hours) with starting at third year captain pay plus the 7,500 bonus Iíd be about on par with what I make now.

So weíll see what happens. I think ALoT will change even by mid summer.

nopantsILS
02-22-2018, 01:28 PM
I totally get guys coming here in your situation. I just think there isn't many people like you left.

If you're online by summertime I'm sure the hours will be coming your way in a hurry. This place will be in full meltdown mode by June. A zero 121 pilot has great options right now, I really struggle to see how OO is continuing to recruit. It has to dry up eventually, the gap is just becoming so large.

Green Needles
02-22-2018, 02:04 PM
There are really no reasons to come to SKW in the current climate.

...

However, this is the regionals. I would caution against spiking the ball in another carriers thread. Who knows what will happen by this time next year.

You are exactly right on these points. There is no good reason to go to SkyWest. To your point about who knows what will happen next year: That's exactly why the SkyWest pilot group should have demanded what they're worth. They sold themselves out and they sold the rest of the industry out. The AA WOs, Republic and 9E are all making great strides to improve pay for their pilots. SkyWest just spit in the face of that.

word302
02-22-2018, 02:13 PM
You are exactly right on these points. There is no good reason to go to SkyWest. To your point about who knows what will happen next year: That's exactly why the SkyWest pilot group should have demanded what they're worth. They sold themselves out and they sold the rest of the industry out. The AA WOs, Republic and 9E are all making great strides to improve pay for their pilots. SkyWest just spit in the face of that.

Preaching to the choir Holmes.

nopantsILS
02-22-2018, 04:20 PM
You are exactly right on these points. There is no good reason to go to SkyWest. To your point about who knows what will happen next year: That's exactly why the SkyWest pilot group should have demanded what they're worth. They sold themselves out and they sold the rest of the industry out. The AA WOs, Republic and 9E are all making great strides to improve pay for their pilots. SkyWest just spit in the face of that.

40 something % of OO pilots agreed with you. But....SAPA is completely dysfunctional and outgunned. Its all a joke.

hawk21
02-22-2018, 04:30 PM
40 something % of OO pilots agreed with you. But....SAPA is completely dysfunctional and outgunned. Its all a joke.

40 something % of OO pilots *that bothered to even vote*

trip
02-22-2018, 04:57 PM
SAPA is completely dysfunctional and outgunned

Not withstanding the ego's currently in charge it's fundamentally flawed as structured, 100% percent funded by the company they're supposed to negotiate with, a major conflict.

Excargodog
02-22-2018, 05:13 PM
Not withstanding the ego's currently in charge it's fundamentally flawed as structured, 100% percent funded by the company they're supposed to negotiate with, a major conflict.

You know, you wouldn't have to unionize to get leverage. If people only threatened a union organizing vote, in this hiring environment it might well be enough....

:D

Check Complete
02-22-2018, 05:20 PM
Not withstanding the ego's currently in charge it's fundamentally flawed as structured, 100% percent funded by the company they're supposed to negotiate with, a major conflict.

Thereís no one to look out for the pilot group, no voice, no choice!

We are so far back from the front that we cannot recover, there is no way management is going to recognize or respect the flying professionion as a necessity for further function.

Look at it as it is, this is the beginning of the end of SkyWest.

RemoveB4Flight
02-22-2018, 06:05 PM
Itís smart to get out of here. Go to a LCC.
The regionals could be a very scary place in a couple of years.

flysooner9
02-22-2018, 07:42 PM
Itís smart to get out of here. Go to a LCC.
The regionals could be a very scary place in a couple of years.

Or a good place if they start stapleing to majors.

Bonanzer
02-23-2018, 04:54 AM
When was the last Union drive? Hasnít alpa tried to unionize Skywest several times.

Excargodog
02-23-2018, 05:37 AM
When was the last Union drive? Hasnít alpa tried to unionize Skywest several times.


Where is Norma Rae, now when we need her most?
:eek:

msprj2
02-23-2018, 05:46 AM
My scenario is I have previous 121 time. However not enough total time for the majors (at least to be competitive) I live in the Midwest. Can one leg it to most airline bases except NYC. Canít afford to be a FO so I need somewhere I can get the immediate upgrade. Pretty much leaves me with Skywest, Envoy, and Endeavor. Envoy they would force me to NY for the foreseeable future and it would be a 2 leg commute to rsv. Endeavor has fantastic pay and good schedules. however the entire pipeline from application to IOE is severely clogged right now. Could be looking at a year from now until Iíd be on the line. Also possibility of getting stuck in NYC for a while. Skywest sounds like I could easily get a CA seat in ATL. Relatively easy commute. Also sounds like Iíd be flying a ton which is my number one reason Iím leaving my current job (not getting enough hours) with starting at third year captain pay plus the 7,500 bonus Iíd be about on par with what I make now.

So weíll see what happens. I think ALoT will change even by mid summer.

From what I gather from reading your post it appears almost any regional will suffice. You need $50K+ a year and an easy or short commute from the "Midwest". Which places will be here in 2-3 years
should be at the top of your list also. Apply to your top three and interview with who calls. My guess 2 interviews and 1-2 job offers.
They may answer your question for you.

gojo
02-23-2018, 08:42 AM
Where is Norma Rae, now when we need her most?
:eek:

Norma Rae, now thatíll date you

DelTacoBowl
02-23-2018, 02:30 PM
It might be just me, and it might be just circumstantial but I am observing considerable acceleration in appreciation of my seniority number over the past 2 months. I wonder if this is indicative of people exiting at a higher rate or just a surge in mainline hiring? OO may very well be matching this with recruitment, I am not sure but it makes me wonder.

trip
02-23-2018, 03:51 PM
And just like that, the "pay talks" go cold.

Check Complete
02-23-2018, 04:01 PM
And just like that, the "pay talks" go cold.


Not sure of where you heard that, but I for one am glad if itís true!

flysooner9
02-23-2018, 04:03 PM
Not sure of where you heard that, but I for one am glad if itís true!

??????


Filler

hawk21
02-24-2018, 07:00 PM
And just like that, the "pay talks" go cold.

What......?

WesternSkies
02-24-2018, 07:06 PM
What......?

Company has not responded to a request to meet to discuss pay.

According to RJ

hawk21
02-24-2018, 07:48 PM
Company has not responded to a request to meet to discuss pay.

According to RJ


Nowhere in his email did I see anything that suggested that.

trip
02-24-2018, 08:14 PM
Nowhere in his email did I see anything that suggested that.

It's in the SLC meeting notes on the site.
I'm not sure what that email was supposed to convey. We've got them right where we want them I guess???

Cazadores
02-24-2018, 11:10 PM
It's in the SLC meeting notes on the site.
I'm not sure what that email was supposed to convey. We've got them right where we want them I guess???



It conveys its time for ALPA.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Mercyful Fate
02-25-2018, 07:49 AM
It conveys its time for ALPA.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yup. That will solve everything.

http://replygif.net/i/1472.gif

DirkDiggler
02-25-2018, 08:39 AM
Mercyful Fate is a paid union buster. You heard it here first.

Confessions of a Union Buster:
https://youtu.be/tAgjII4CRi4

Check Complete
02-25-2018, 10:49 AM
Yup. That will solve everything.



Ya, when you got management and their "open door" policy (but closed mind) and SAPA working in the pilot group's best interest, why would you want a union?

I mean seriously, what other large pilot group has a union?

gojo
02-25-2018, 11:01 AM
Ya, when you got management and their "open door" policy (but closed mind) and SAPA working in the pilot group's best interest, why would you want a union?

I mean seriously, what other large pilot group has a union?

But youíll give up your 1.8% savings every check. How will you survive?

Check Complete
02-25-2018, 03:22 PM
But youíll give up your 1.8% savings every check. How will you survive?

Already worked it into the budget, instead of one hooker every 4 days, I'll go to a weekly schedule.

See! It's easy to get an enforceable contract!

hawk21
02-25-2018, 04:44 PM
But youíll give up your 1.8% savings every check. How will you survive?

Block or better alone exceeds what money we would lose by paying for a union.

gojo
02-25-2018, 04:48 PM
Block or better alone exceeds what money we would lose by paying for a union.

Yes I know that. Thatís why I find myself shaking my head when I hear of the resistance within Skywest. My post regarding the 1.8% was sarcasm

Excargodog
02-25-2018, 05:44 PM
Yes I know that. Thatís why I find myself shaking my head when I hear of the resistance within Skywest. My post regarding the 1.8% was sarcasm


Ahhh...

You need to do the statement thing for those who are slow learners or only understand html....


Some people require you to use a clue stick.

;)

MolineCFI
02-25-2018, 07:55 PM
Already worked it into the budget, instead of one hooker every 4 days, I'll go to a weekly schedule.

See! It's easy to get an enforceable contract!

I'm not going to cut the hooker schedule to pay for ALPA. That's crazy. Why should the hookers have to suffer because SAPA decided to accept a 1% pay cut?

Mercyful Fate
02-26-2018, 02:54 AM
Mercyful Fate is a paid union buster. You heard it here first.

Confessions of a Union Buster:
https://youtu.be/tAgjII4CRi4

Get a life fella...this is the kind of crap you spend time watching on youtube, and then try to cross reference it to a stupid forum?

http://replygif.net/i/1548.gif

Is offline
02-26-2018, 07:57 AM
I love the argument that alpa has a conflict of interest with regionals and mainline, but our pilots are perfectly ok with representation paid for by the company. Now thatís ironic

gojo
02-26-2018, 08:21 AM
I love the argument that alpa has a conflict of interest with regionals and mainline, but our pilots are perfectly ok with representation paid for by the company. Now thatís ironic

Just like 1.8% tax deductible ALPA dues would cost them money. I guarantee you each and every pilot at Skywest would benefit much more than that in pay and QOL returns

rickair7777
02-26-2018, 08:39 AM
Just like 1.8% tax deductible ALPA dues would cost them money. I guarantee you each and every pilot at Skywest would benefit much more than that in pay and QOL returns

If they voted in the union ten years ago, yes.

If they do it now, it's going to freeze the status quo, the company will drag it out for maaaaany years, and blame the union as to why they can't give everybody raises and bonuses.

A union is long-game, more of interest to lifers than the upwardly mobile.

The only thing that would expedite the process would be a very high attrition/hiring ratio. That might happen, but there's nothing to keep SKW (or any other regional) from sponsoring ab-initio training, with a salary/stipend to boot... that would fill a lot of classes.

gojo
02-26-2018, 09:30 AM
If they voted in the union ten years ago, yes.

If they do it now, it's going to freeze the status quo, the company will drag it out for maaaaany years, and blame the union as to why they can't give everybody raises and bonuses.

A union is long-game, more of interest to lifers than the upwardly mobile.

The only thing that would expedite the process would be a very high attrition/hiring ratio. That might happen, but there's nothing to keep SKW (or any other regional) from sponsoring ab-initio training, with a salary/stipend to boot... that would fill a lot of classes.

I donít think you guys are that helpless, and I really donít think Skywest would drag it out. Not in this market. In fact, if it even got close to a union vote theyíd probably step up to the plate to try an appease the masses.

Cazadores
02-26-2018, 10:01 AM
If they voted in the union ten years ago, yes.

If they do it now, it's going to freeze the status quo, the company will drag it out for maaaaany years, and blame the union as to why they can't give everybody raises and bonuses.

A union is long-game, more of interest to lifers than the upwardly mobile.

The only thing that would expedite the process would be a very high attrition/hiring ratio. That might happen, but there's nothing to keep SKW (or any other regional) from sponsoring ab-initio training, with a salary/stipend to boot... that would fill a lot of classes.



I actually considered this scenario, management pushes labor, pilots in particular, to unionize, giving them the comfortable paradigm where incompetence and inability to respond to a rapidly changing industry where SkyWest,s model is increasingly irrelevant is blamed on labor.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

OOfff
02-26-2018, 11:58 AM
Just like 1.8% tax deductible ALPA dues would cost them money. I guarantee you each and every pilot at Skywest would benefit much more than that in pay and QOL returns

No longer tax deductible under the new tax law ;)

DirkDiggler
02-26-2018, 12:10 PM
Get a life fella...this is the kind of crap you spend time watching on youtube, and then try to cross reference it to a stupid forum?



Pot...meet kettle. You claim you aren't even a pilot but spend 1,100 posts worth of time on pilot forum. Hmm.

DirkDiggler
02-26-2018, 12:17 PM
Look at how Walmart handles any union chatter. If an associate even hints at organizing they fly people up from Bentonville Arkansas that same day and take control of the store.

https://youtu.be/2OjHWBTyfY0?t=1m3s

rickair7777
02-26-2018, 01:03 PM
I don’t think you guys are that helpless, and I really don’t think Skywest would drag it out. Not in this market. In fact, if it even got close to a union vote they’d probably step up to the plate to try an appease the masses.

They might pony up to avert a union vote.

But once a union arrives, they will slow-roll the CBA. (just like every other company in that position). They would rather give money to CFI's and student pilots if that's what they have to do in order to staff. Actually makes sense, that way they don't lock-in big raises for the long-term and can dispense with signing bonuses and scholarships once the pilot shortage ends.

rickair7777
02-26-2018, 01:06 PM
Look at how Walmart handles any union chatter. If an associate even hints at organizing they fly people up from Bentonville Arkansas that same day and take control of the store.

https://youtu.be/2OjHWBTyfY0?t=1m3s

I never observed any strong-arm tactics (ie threats, preemptive termination of organizers). SGU clearly discourages unions, but they never crossed the line while I was there. Not really in their nature.

gojo
02-26-2018, 01:10 PM
No longer tax deductible under the new tax law ;)

Well then, forget that. Better to stay with SAPA

RemoveB4Flight
02-26-2018, 01:19 PM
They might pony up to avert a union vote.

But once a union arrives, they will slow-roll the CBA. (just like every other company in that position). They would rather give money to CFI's and student pilots if that's what they have to do in order to staff. Actually makes sense, that way they don't lock-in big raises for the long-term and can dispense with signing bonuses and scholarships once the pilot shortage ends.

I donít think slow rolling would be an option for them in that situation while in todayís market. We are already behind the curve in pay and as other regionals raise their pay, if we are stuck in union limbo, unable to make changes to the pay scale, it could mean the place would start hemorrhaging pilots.

Mercyful Fate
02-26-2018, 02:45 PM
Pot...meet kettle. You claim you aren't even a pilot but spend 1,100 posts worth of time on pilot forum. Hmm.

I don't post here expecting people to care what I say. You on the other hand, expect and think people care about your posts, when they don't.

Forums are funny that way..you can always pick your type out.

KelvinHelmholtz
02-26-2018, 02:54 PM
Has Mercyful Fate ever made a single useful post on this forum? I havenít seen one. Iím surprised he hasnít been banned yet especially since it doesnít even seem like heís a pilot.

Mercyful Fate
02-26-2018, 02:59 PM
Has Mercyful Fate ever made a single useful post on this forum? I havenít seen one. Iím surprised he hasnít been banned yet especially since it doesnít even seem like heís a pilot.

How can you say I have never made a useful post? Your last statement proves you haven't been paying very good attention.

DirkDiggler
02-26-2018, 03:53 PM
Well there are two useless posts by Mercyful Fate on this page alone.

I'm telling you he's a paid management troll. Probably in Russia. You heard it here first. :D

Mercyful Fate
02-26-2018, 03:57 PM
Well there are two useless posts by Mercyful Fate on this page alone.

I'm telling you he's a paid management troll. Probably in Russia. You heard it here first. :D

Thank goodness you are keeping pace.

http://replygif.net/i/1406.gif

TheWeatherman
02-26-2018, 04:06 PM
He also uses the worst GIFs that were popular memes like 5 years ago. Just based on that fact alone he must be from Russia.

Mercyful Fate
02-26-2018, 04:18 PM
He also uses the worst GIFs that were popular memes like 5 years ago. Just based on that fact alone he must be from Russia.
https://media2.fdncms.com/clevescene/imager/you-mad-bro-sign-at-high-school-football-game-gets-people-in-ridiculous/u/original/2724559/1315317919-picture_1398.png

DirkDiggler
02-26-2018, 04:55 PM
Yeah. He's creating the GIF's on Windows XP from his dial-up connection in a troll factory.

похвалить Путина!

Mercyful Fate
02-26-2018, 06:08 PM
Yeah. He's creating the GIF's on Windows XP from his dial-up connection in a troll factory.

похвалить Путина!


OK, I will be honest...this did make me chuckle.

вниз с карликами!

hawk21
02-27-2018, 02:03 PM
Check your SWOL email and fill out the survey SAPA sent out.

amcnd
02-27-2018, 03:05 PM
Check your SWOL email and fill out the survey SAPA sent out.

Wasnít SWOL mail. But the email that you registered for the new sapa website...

WesternSkies
02-27-2018, 03:56 PM
Check your SWOL email and fill out the survey SAPA sent out.

And the resounding question is WHY?

hawk21
02-27-2018, 05:21 PM
Wasnít SWOL mail. But the email that you registered for the new sapa website...

You are correct.

hawk21
02-27-2018, 05:22 PM
And the resounding question is WHY?

Because they're at least putting some sort of effort into trying to figure out what we want.

rickair7777
02-27-2018, 05:35 PM
Because they're at least putting some sort of effort into trying to figure out what we want.

I thought Russ already knew.

Paid2fly
02-27-2018, 08:39 PM
I thought Russ already knew.








Already knew what management wants?:confused:

deadseal
02-27-2018, 09:03 PM
Has Mercyful Fate ever made a single useful post on this forum? I havenít seen one. Iím surprised he hasnít been banned yet especially since it doesnít even seem like heís a pilot.

Heís not a pilot. Butt he gets butt hurt really easily. Donít push him too hard or he runs to mods like a little red head with his hair on fire.
If you really **** him off he will open 2 threads in other sections of this website crying how mean you are to him. Very entertaining actually

AboveMins
02-28-2018, 05:10 AM
Heís not a pilot. Butt he gets butt hurt really easily. Donít push him too hard or he runs to mods like a little red head with his hair on fire.
If you really **** him off he will open 2 threads in other sections of this website crying how mean you are to him. Very entertaining actually

Eh, do what I did... Put him on your block list. No need to feed the trolls. Especially when they're 13 year old flight simmers running a virtual airline in mommy's basement.

rickair7777
02-28-2018, 05:59 AM
Already knew what management wants?:confused:

What's best for you.

hawk21
02-28-2018, 08:51 AM
I thought Russ already knew.

RJ is incredibly out of touch with the pilot group. He still thinks our 1% a year deal paved the way for Endeavor and Republic to pass TAs.

rickair7777
02-28-2018, 09:24 AM
RJ is incredibly out of touch with the pilot group. He still thinks our 1% a year deal paved the way for Endeavor and Republic to pass TAs.

Did I forget the sarcasm tags?

hawk21
02-28-2018, 09:42 AM
Did I forget the sarcasm tags?

Apparently so.

Mercyful Fate
02-28-2018, 02:50 PM
Eh, do what I did... Put him on your block list. No need to feed the trolls. Especially when they're 13 year old flight simmers running a virtual airline in mommy's basement.

General Lee / Onyoursix / deadseal will never have me on his block list. It would drive her crazy not seeing what I am up to.

And oh yes, I do know you claim that I am on your blocked list. But guaranteed you will read this, because you won't be able to stand not knowing what my response was, just like the General.

bye bye- General Lee

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/81/b5/ec/81b5ec2b086cdd24f4d217d1d4765cbe--charlie-sheen-quotes-gambling-quotes.jpg

fastback
03-05-2018, 06:11 PM
I thought Russ already knew.
When's he gonna tell us what we want?

rickair7777
03-05-2018, 06:15 PM
When's he gonna tell us what we want?

You don't really need to know.

amcnd
03-07-2018, 07:08 AM
Just as I thought on the survey ..... ď1852 respondents out of about 2600 registered users on the siteĒ

So 1852 people are hoing to decide the fate of 4600.... come on people!! Only took a few minutes to fill out!!

93Sierra
03-07-2018, 07:43 AM
The survey should of had all of the above. I don't see what data they will be able to gather. The lifers want 401k and that's all. New pilots want pay and maybe some quality of life issues. People here in between want qol and pay etc. I don't think commuter hotels/parking is holding back west coasters from wanting to upgrade to detoilet etc. I would like to see improvements in both catagoriea across the board.

amcnd
03-07-2018, 07:56 AM
Higher 401k was 8 out of 10. Low priority... and the controversial question was 70% go for pay vs 30% QOL

word302
03-07-2018, 09:08 AM
Just as I thought on the survey ..... ď1852 respondents out of about 2600 registered users on the siteĒ

So 1852 people are hoing to decide the fate of 4600.... come on people!! Only took a few minutes to fill out!!

Who you calling a ho?

trip
03-07-2018, 09:27 AM
Just as I thought on the survey ..... ď1852 respondents out of about 2600 registered users on the siteĒ

So 1852 people are hoing to decide the fate of 4600.... come on people!! Only took a few minutes to fill out!!

Maybe it's a lack of confidence in the trained negotiators?

rickair7777
03-07-2018, 10:28 AM
Just as I thought on the survey ..... ď1852 respondents out of about 2600 registered users on the siteĒ

So 1852 people are hoing to decide the fate of 4600.... come on people!! Only took a few minutes to fill out!!

They're too busy on airline apps and GPC.

hawk21
03-07-2018, 04:37 PM
Prepare yourselves for an incredibly underwhelming pay package.

Again.

Check Complete
03-07-2018, 08:30 PM
Prepare yourselves for an incredibly underwhelming pay package.

Again.

Giant stinking NO VOTE here!

The only thing Iím going to vote yes for is ALPA!

Mercyful Fate
03-08-2018, 02:18 AM
Giant stinking NO VOTE here!

The only thing Iím going to vote yes for is ALPA!

So when are you going to be leading the drive for ALPA? Or are are you going to just sit back and complain on here and do nothing? I don't know if I should be shaking my head in disbelief at the lack of a spine, or laughing my head off.

Westernflight
03-08-2018, 05:03 AM
So when are you going to be leading the drive for ALPA? Or are are you going to just sit back and complain on here and do nothing? I don't know if I should be shaking my head in disbelief at the lack of a spine, or laughing my head off.

Thereís already the early stages of a drive forming behind the scenes. Clearly you havenít been paying attention. Seems like theyíre waiting to see how this next TA goes before handing out the pitchforks. Wonít surprise me if some current members of SAPA resign and join the charge.

metx192
03-08-2018, 05:18 AM
Thereís already the early stages of a drive forming behind the scenes. Clearly you havenít been paying attention. Seems like theyíre waiting to see how this next TA goes before handing out the pitchforks. Wonít surprise me if some current members of SAPA resign and join the charge.

Exactly. Now isnít the time for pitchforks. That comes after the pay package. Although ALPA would be an improvement, we could spend awhile in negotiations before seeing pay increases. Secure raises now, bring in ALPA later.

flysooner9
03-08-2018, 06:06 AM
Has there been any progress on a new pay package or is it still just a pipe dream right now?

amcnd
03-08-2018, 07:03 AM
Has there been any progress on a new pay package or is it still just a pipe dream right now?

The time line outlined in the unpdate was late April/ early May..

Excargodog
03-08-2018, 07:31 AM
The time line outlined in the unpdate was late April/ early May..

So that's a no?

amcnd
03-08-2018, 08:02 AM
So that's a no?

Progress yes.. they meet with management ast started negotiations.... now they have a nother meeting in a few weeks then the April sapa meetings to hopefully present a package to the reps, then to the pilots.... (better then if they said ďsee ya in 4 yearsĒ....). Not holding my breath for much. Most people are over it. And time to move on. Still the same old story. Less then 25% of the pilot group even taking the time for a 10 min survey..

rickair7777
03-08-2018, 08:21 AM
Exactly. Now isnít the time for pitchforks. That comes after the pay package. Although ALPA would be an improvement, we could spend awhile in negotiations before seeing pay increases. Secure raises now, bring in ALPA later.

People made that assumption in 2007, I think it's like having a baby, it's never a good time, you just have to rip the bandaid off and do it.

The problem is too many junior and very senior folks only see themselves paying dues for a few years, and then moving on or retiring before they get an ROI. Going to be a hard sell, although maybe some folks will vote yes not even realizing that the status quo will be locked in for years to come.

skytrails
03-08-2018, 08:23 AM
Most people are over it. And time to move on.

How are people over it? They just accept the fact that their peers are making more then they are, in some cases substantially more.

amcnd
03-08-2018, 09:02 AM
How are people over it? They just accept the fact that their peers are making more then they are, in some cases substantially more.

Thats a old ďqouteĒ by me. That was in reference to the fact we voted it in. And boy did the industry turn. At the time no
One had a idea that Endeavor would jump to $140hr top pay... move on. Industry is on our side.. will we get more?? Guess will find out in 2 months. If we don't watch attrition soar even higher...

trip
03-08-2018, 10:00 AM
How can this be financially responsible when just six months there was "absolutely no more money"?

amcnd
03-08-2018, 10:04 AM
How can this be financially responsible when just six months there was "absolutely no more money"?

Because they knew what there bid was going to be for the 100 new aircraft contract. We have taken half of those. If we get a raise. I bet the rest down show up.. they will still sell it as we got 100. (If you include the used 200/700ís from ASA)...

word302
03-08-2018, 10:49 AM
Thats a old ďqouteĒ by me. That was in reference to the fact we voted it in. And boy did the industry turn. At the time no
One had a idea that Endeavor would jump to $140hr top pay... move on. Industry is on our side.. will we get more?? Guess will find out in 2 months. If we don't watch attrition soar even higher...

Are you kidding? It was pretty common knowledge that Endeavor was wrapping their bonus into hard rates. The only people who had no idea were those stuck in the SkyWest bubble.

amcnd
03-08-2018, 11:01 AM
We have proven that bubble is 80% of the Group doesnít even know how to fill out a survey...

hawk21
03-08-2018, 11:04 AM
Thereís already the early stages of a drive forming behind the scenes. Clearly you havenít been paying attention. Seems like theyíre waiting to see how this next TA goes before handing out the pitchforks. Wonít surprise me if some current members of SAPA resign and join the charge.

Problem is half the current members of SAPA are management wannabes and will never join that fight.

hawk21
03-08-2018, 11:07 AM
At the time no
One had a idea that Endeavor would jump to $140hr top pay... move on. .

Everybody and their mom knew Endeavor was about to roll their bonuses into hard rates.

You sound like RJ.

trip
03-08-2018, 11:42 AM
Because they knew what there bid was going to be for the 100 new aircraft contract. We have taken half of those. If we get a raise. I bet the rest down show up.. they will still sell it as we got 100. (If you include the used 200/700ís from ASA)...

Conference call made it clear those aircraft were not awarded based on cost structure but our ability to staff.

word302
03-08-2018, 11:53 AM
We have proven that bubble is 80% of the Group doesnít even know how to fill out a survey...

Do you get short of breath in there?

flysooner9
03-08-2018, 01:01 PM
Because they knew what there bid was going to be for the 100 new aircraft contract. We have taken half of those. If we get a raise. I bet the rest down show up.. they will still sell it as we got 100. (If you include the used 200/700ís from ASA)...


Maybe true 2,3,4 years ago. Not anymore. I bet every single regional sees raises and or bonus increases by the summer.

gojo
03-08-2018, 02:57 PM
Because they knew what there bid was going to be for the 100 new aircraft contract. We have taken half of those. If we get a raise. I bet the rest down show up.. they will still sell it as we got 100. (If you include the used 200/700’s from ASA)...

Do you really believe that? I think that they played you all like a fiddle!! And I think that you are part of “they.” You don’t seem supportive of the gains sought by many of your peers. Instead you come across as very pro company. Where do you think those airframes would’ve gone instead. ExpressJet? I really doubt that. Instead they used those airframes as a big fat chocolate covered carrot to buy the majority SAPA vote. Then for further insult, they try to sell your pathetic gains as raising the bar for your competitors and the reason for their gains. Barf, there is no excuse for voting in that pos contract. Especially this during these times. Skywest has a very strong portfolio, and that sellout for aircraft sounds an awful like PSA years ago. You all could’ve closed the gap by a lot more and still remained competitive

word302
03-08-2018, 03:02 PM
Do you really believe that? I think that they played you all like a fiddle!! And I think that you are part of ďthey.Ē You donít seem supportive of the gains sought by many of your peers. Instead you come across as very pro company. Where do you think those airframes wouldíve gone instead. ExpressJet? I really doubt that. Instead they used those airframes as a big fat chocolate covered carrot to buy the majority SAPA vote. Then for further insult, they try to sell your pathetic gains as raising the bar for your competitors and the reason for their gains. Barf, there is no excuse for voting in that pos contract. Especially this during these times. Skywest has a very strong portfolio, and that sellout for aircraft sounds an awful like PSA years ago. You all couldíve closed the gap by a lot more and still remained competitive
Yup, and our master and commander is already starting with the same rhetoric for these pay talks. Color me unsurprised.

N1234
03-08-2018, 03:09 PM
Yup, and our master and commander is already starting with the same rhetoric for these pay talks. Color me unsurprised.

What is really interesting to see how quickly they want to come to a proposal all of a sudden.

They either have been cooking that for a while - or it will be another episode of "oh we didn't read the fine print ...."