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warthog
02-12-2018, 01:09 PM
Hey all,
Was wondering if anyone on here has good gouge on what makes for a competitive AFOQT/TBAS score for USAF pilot selection. My son is 24, a college grad, but with no flying experience. Has decided that the business world is full of turds, and wants to take the tests for USAF. My experience with it is over 37 years old, so I have no good info for him on what he needs to score to compete. Any help appreciated. Thanks!


BeatNavy
02-12-2018, 06:49 PM
Hey all,
Was wondering if anyone on here has good gouge on what makes for a competitive AFOQT/TBAS score for USAF pilot selection. My son is 24, a college grad, but with no flying experience. Has decided that the business world is full of turds, and wants to take the tests for USAF. My experience with it is over 37 years old, so I have no good info for him on what he needs to score to compete. Any help appreciated. Thanks!

I canít speak to active duty at all, and only anecdotally as a guy who rushed guard/reserve units for years, but I saw a huge range of what constituted a ďcompetitiveĒ package based on talking to people who got interviews and who got selected from those interviews. Some units seemed to not care about test scores much. Some cared a lot. I know some guys with 60s and 70s in some areas, including the pilot section, who got hired. I know guys with 98-99s who got hired. Most units seem to take a ďwhole packageĒ look at dudes, with personality and ties to that area as the top two discriminators (assuming an otherwise strong application), also using test scores/GPA/Flight experience to try and get guys who have a high likelihood of making it thru training.

90s seem competitive, but certainly donít give up with less. Plenty of guys get hired with lower scores. Iíd say have him study for it, take the test, get apps out to as many units as he can, and get some flight experience (hard to get hired with none, and it is a part of the TBAS score). Rushing units and talking to some of the broís can give insight into what they are looking for, as well as getting them to talk about how they got hired.

Castle Bravo
02-12-2018, 08:09 PM
When I was competing for UPT in the early-mid 90's, the rumor was those with a PPL and at least 100 hrs were good-to-go, assuming all other criteria was met (medical, grades, scores, etc). YMMV. The age cut-off is, I believe, 33, so plenty of time. Best of Luck to him.


joepilot
02-13-2018, 03:14 AM
Start some flight training locally. A private pilot certificate helps, and maybe he will decide that flying is not for him.

Joe

JTwift
02-13-2018, 04:34 AM
When I was competing for UPT in the early-mid 90's, the rumor was those with a PPL and at least 100 hrs were good-to-go, assuming all other criteria was met (medical, grades, scores, etc). YMMV. The age cut-off is, I believe, 33, so plenty of time. Best of Luck to him.

Age limit is 28.5 to meet the board, 30 to start UPT...Without a waiver.

With a waiver is up to 35.

Sliceback
02-13-2018, 07:07 AM
Old unit probably hired guys with approx. a minimum of 500 hrs. Most had more.

Vincent Chase
02-13-2018, 07:29 AM
Old unit probably hired guys with approx. a minimum of 500 hrs. Most had more.
Wow! I only had 14 hours of powered time before I got to pilot training.

Oh. You meant ANG or AFRES. My bad. I was assuming the OP wanted to know what it took for his son to get into the Active AF.

Vincent Chase
02-13-2018, 07:31 AM
Hey all,
Was wondering if anyone on here has good gouge on what makes for a competitive AFOQT/TBAS score for USAF pilot selection. My son is 24, a college grad, but with no flying experience. Has decided that the business world is full of turds, and wants to take the tests for USAF. My experience with it is over 37 years old, so I have no good info for him on what he needs to score to compete. Any help appreciated. Thanks!


Right now, if your son has a pulse and can be corrected to 20/20, I'd say he's sound as a pound. There are some AFOQT and TBAS gouge pages on the interwebs. TBAS is about doing 2 things at once...kinda like texting and driving, while seeing if you focus on the correct task at the correct time...

Armybeatnavy
02-13-2018, 09:11 AM
As long as he cab be a good bro he should be fine. GPA, test scores and flight time all depends on the unit. I just did the process not to long along and got hired by my #1 unit. I visited and showed them I wanted to be there. The whole thing if you have a pulse you're hired is not true. For.my interview there were 14 people interviewing for 3 slots. About 6 of them were airline dudes.

AFTrainerGuy
02-13-2018, 01:43 PM
Hey all,
Was wondering if anyone on here has good gouge on what makes for a competitive AFOQT/TBAS score for USAF pilot selection. My son is 24, a college grad, but with no flying experience. Has decided that the business world is full of turds, and wants to take the tests for USAF. My experience with it is over 37 years old, so I have no good info for him on what he needs to score to compete. Any help appreciated. Thanks!

Currently, AFRC turned in 22 unsponsored UPT pilot slots last year. If your son is serious, in todayís age, all he would need to do is contact a recruiter and take the AFOQT, the BAT test (not called this now but I canít remember new name), and pass the Class 1 medical. Then, he can apply to the AFRC unsponsored UPT pipeline. If all three above are good, heís pretty much done. They canít even get close to hitting their yearly quota.

Merle Dixon
02-13-2018, 07:51 PM
Hey all,
Was wondering if anyone on here has good gouge on what makes for a competitive AFOQT/TBAS score for USAF pilot selection. My son is 24, a college grad, but with no flying experience. Has decided that the business world is full of turds, and wants to take the tests for USAF. My experience with it is over 37 years old, so I have no good info for him on what he needs to score to compete. Any help appreciated. Thanks!

As others have typed, have your son search the interwebs and order a book or two on AFOQT study. A Private Pilot License is a good idea. We have a lot of students in SUPT right now that are off the street Guard / Reserve hires (in the good ol days you had to enlist in Guard / Reserve unit X and eventually get a SUPT slot, not true anymore). I recommend you have your son contact every Guard unit in the country that flies aircraft he may be interested in. I think the Guard does a much better job of taking care of their people than the Reserve. Above all else, avoid active-duty at all costs.

Cheers!

Merle

trexplt
02-14-2018, 03:35 AM
AFTrainerGuy is correct on the slots being turned in...take the TBAS and go forth with AFRC. Also, the AF doesn't give much credit for a lot of civilian flying. I think 200 hours is about the max for PCSM credit. AFPC has a public site outside of the .mil firewall at: http://access.afpc.af.mil/pcsmdmz/index.html (http://access.afpc.af.mil/pcsmdmz/index.html) that explains a lot of this for those looking to go the flying route. Both AD and ARC have "UFT boards" each year (several times a year for ARC, I think) for those officers currently serving in other AFSCs. Good luck to your son!

Armybeatnavy
02-14-2018, 06:26 AM
Currently, AFRC turned in 22 unsponsored UPT pilot slots last year. If your son is serious, in todayís age, all he would need to do is contact a recruiter and take the AFOQT, the BAT test (not called this now but I canít remember new name), and pass the Class 1 medical. Then, he can apply to the AFRC unsponsored UPT pipeline. If all three above are good, heís pretty much done. They canít even get close to hitting their yearly quota.

You don't have to have your FC1 completed any more in order to summit the package. It just need to be scheduled.

Sliceback
02-14-2018, 04:29 PM
I just read an article, that I now canít find, that showed how many USAFR and ANG SUPT training slots went unfilled last year. About 30-40 combined.

Thatís why units are advertising.

AFTrainerGuy
02-16-2018, 04:50 AM
I just read an article, that I now canít find, that showed how many USAFR and ANG SUPT training slots went unfilled last year. About 30-40 combined.

Thatís why units are advertising.

Part of the reason is the recruitment process. I tried to help a regional captain with 4000+ hrs and no skeletons. It took us almost a year just to get the testing complete due to recruiters just blowing him off, not returning calls, moving positions, etc....

He just got fed up and said if this is a indication of his next ten years, he wasnít interested anymore. I honestly couldnít disagree with him. USAF loss.

galaxy flyer
02-16-2018, 05:56 AM
AFTrainerguy,

If you’re talking about ANG/AFRC; it’s all about squadron mgt involvement in my experience. My unit worked hard for those who wanted to go to UPT and had the quals and motivation. I had a good relationship with the recruiters; made time early in the effort to meet candidates; then followed up to make sure tests, physicals were done and results relayed to the individuals. Westover, at several points had “unit babies” in every position below Wing/CC. The last 3 commanders were unit babies, too. That helps.

Went to a graduation at Laughlin just before I retired. I, as SQ/DO, had five UPT students from my unit there at once. Might be some kind of record.

GF

warthog
02-16-2018, 11:16 AM
Thanks for all the replies. He just heard from his "recruiter" (I use the term loosely) that they weren't taking any more applications for the April Selection Board. This was after he told him he had to get all the testing done ASAP to meet it. Guess supply is higher than demand...or the recruiter can't be bothered. Coulda swore there was a pilot shortage...:confused:

AFTrainerGuy
02-16-2018, 01:12 PM
AFTrainerguy,

If youíre talking about ANG/AFRC; itís all about squadron mgt involvement in my experience. My unit worked hard for those who wanted to go to UPT and had the quals and motivation. I had a good relationship with the recruiters; made time early in the effort to meet candidates; then followed up to make sure tests, physicals were done and results relayed to the individuals. Westover, at several points had ďunit babiesĒ in every position below Wing/CC. The last 3 commanders were unit babies, too. That helps.

Went to a graduation at Laughlin just before I retired. I, as SQ/DO, had five UPT students from my unit there at once. Might be some kind of record.

GF

Yep... AFRC. Off the street guy, trying to apply to unsponsored AFRC pipeline (while he tried to build a package and interview with specific units too).

I am a ďreserve babyĒ and get the process. when your affiliated with a unit itís a lot easier, but itís harder to get a interview cold off the steet without tests complete and a PCSM score. Hence, getting basic tests scheduled. And thereís the rub. He literally just got ďput on holdĒ, delayed, told the recruiter was retiring, new one in 3-6 months, and other crap continually (like taking off work and traveling to another base to take test, only to be turned away because it wasnít scheduled on that day).

Anyway... I helped all I could, but in the end it just put a bad taste in his mouth. Combine that with a captain upgrade at his regional while this was going on and he was over the military flying dream.

You sound like yaíll take good care of your candidates, but working at UPT and talking to all sorts of students, you will be surprised how many people donít and the continual problems they have working in this bureaucracy.

spladle29
02-16-2018, 07:34 PM
Is it feasible to land a ANG UPT slot with no military or flight experience? From the limited research I have done, it sounds like they pick 1-2 guys out of 100+ for a UPT slot.

Sliceback
02-17-2018, 04:55 AM
Yes. But the best way to do that is by enlisting in the unit first. Some units require enlisting first to get a SUPT slot. Other units donít require that but in my experience the typical guy has several hundred hours in they walk in off the street and get hired.

And itís not 1-2 per 100. Iíd guess itís a lower number. But even with a lower number youíll be in the top 2-3%, perhaps 5%, of candidates applying. Many of the candidates will have prior military time or decent, if not significant, flight time. Itís a competitive process and character, and personality, is part of the mix.

galaxy flyer
02-17-2018, 08:01 AM
From personal experience, I beg to differ. My unit was sending 1-3 UPT pilots per year and only a few were turned away. Big IF, you have to be qualified (tests and physical) and determined about serving in the unit. I canít help it if you donít pass the Flying Class I. Scores are up to you, read the prep books.

Flight experience, you will need for a truly off the street applicantóPPL and 100 hours will do. No flight experience candidates tend to come from the enlisted ranks, especially enlisted aircrew. Theyíre known quantities, have verifiable records of military aptitude and internal recs.

AFRC turned back 22 slots last FY, odds are in your favor.

GF

Merle Dixon
02-17-2018, 09:51 AM
Yes. But the best way to do that is by enlisting in the unit first. Some units require enlisting first to get a SUPT slot. Other units donít require that but in my experience the typical guy has several hundred hours in they walk in off the street and get hired.

And itís not 1-2 per 100. Iíd guess itís a lower number. But even with a lower number youíll be in the top 2-3%, perhaps 5%, of candidates applying. Many of the candidates will have prior military time or decent, if not significant, flight time. Itís a competitive process and character, and personality, is part of the mix.

Not true anymore... Here in SUPT right now two thirds of our ANG / Reserve students have zero previous military experince.

Merle Dixon
02-17-2018, 09:54 AM
Thanks for all the replies. He just heard from his "recruiter" (I use the term loosely) that they weren't taking any more applications for the April Selection Board. This was after he told him he had to get all the testing done ASAP to meet it. Guess supply is higher than demand...or the recruiter can't be bothered. Coulda swore there was a pilot shortage...:confused:

Iím telling ya sir, the Guard does a MUCH better job of taking care of their people. The Reserve is almost as ass-clownish as the active-duty.

AFTrainerGuy
02-17-2018, 10:01 AM
From personal experience, I beg to differ. My unit was sending 1-3 UPT pilots per year and only a few were turned away. Big IF, you have to be qualified (tests and physical) and determined about serving in the unit. I canít help it if you donít pass the Flying Class I. Scores are up to you, read the prep books.

Flight experience, you will need for a truly off the street applicantóPPL and 100 hours will do. No flight experience candidates tend to come from the enlisted ranks, especially enlisted aircrew. Theyíre known quantities, have verifiable records of military aptitude and internal recs.

AFRC turned back 22 slots last FY, odds are in your favor.

GF

This is all true in todayís age. If you have a College degree, a PPL and basic experience, some descent scores on tests and are medically qualified, and most importantly, a real desire to be a in that unit, you have a very good chance of getting hired. You could almost definetly get picked up unsponsored in AFRC.

There is a shortage (at certain units) and AF needs bodies. The catch is the process to get to the interview can be frustrating and daunting when your off the street and really have no connections in. Hence, you really gotta want it because that part is not easy. But, many do it every year and itís completely feasible for most who qualify. If I could figure it out, so could almost anyone else. Anyone who reads this and really needs help, PM me and Iíll help you anyway I can.

galaxy flyer
02-17-2018, 12:27 PM
Iím telling ya sir, the Guard does a MUCH better job of taking care of their people. The Reserve is almost as ass-clownish as the active-duty.

While my experience is dated, itís very unit-dependent. In general, Iíd probably agree, but thereís plenty of units at each extreme from both ANG and AFRC. TX ANG wouldnít let a promotee pin on until the appropriate PME was finished, cancelling the boardís judgement. No AFRC unit would do that, but getting promoted without it might be harder.

GF

bizzlepilot
02-17-2018, 08:05 PM
While my experience is dated, itís very unit-dependent. In general, Iíd probably agree, but thereís plenty of units at each extreme from both ANG and AFRC. TX ANG wouldnít let a promotee pin on until the appropriate PME was finished, cancelling the boardís judgement. No AFRC unit would do that, but getting promoted without it might be harder.

GF

Agree completely, having been AD, Reserve and now ANG I can tell you it is entirely unit dependent. My reserve unit was pretty relaxed, however, it does seem like the guard is starting to move toward the AD way of doing business, unfortunately.