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View Full Version : Hiring rumors


Jamesthunder
02-16-2018, 12:59 PM
Hey a friend of friend said they were told during the interview that Envoy is placing a freeze on hiring and told to reapply in 30 days. Anyone hear anything on this?


bigtime209
02-16-2018, 01:15 PM
Hey a friend of friend said they were told during the interview that Envoy is placing a freeze on hiring and told to reapply in 30 days. Anyone hear anything on this?

Makes sense. They're capping all new hire classes for the foreseeable future. Pipeline is probably full at the moment. At least on the new hire/FO side.

UnderCenter
02-16-2018, 01:16 PM
Makes sense. They're capping all new hire classes for the foreseeable future. Pipeline is probably full at the moment. At least on the new hire/FO side.

So what would all of this mean for someone with a class date in the next three months? How long to get off reserve? How long to get back to DFW?


navigatro
02-16-2018, 01:22 PM
So what would all of this mean for someone with a class date in the next three months? How long to get off reserve? How long to get back to DFW?

Yes. No. Yes.

Azorian
02-16-2018, 01:25 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but what sense does a hiring freeze make?

sure, perhaps if they are fat on FOs a hiring freeze for FOs... but a hiring freeze all around?

smells of fish

UnderCenter
02-16-2018, 01:28 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but what sense does a hiring freeze make?

sure, perhaps if they are fat on FOs a hiring freeze for FOs... but a hiring freeze all around?

smells of fish

Compass had a year long hiring freeze that just ended. They are now feeling the painful effects from it with how short on FOs they are. It was also painful for the guys hired just prior to the freeze.

Azorian
02-16-2018, 01:38 PM
I could see a 4 month or 6 month hiring freeze on FOs while doing everything in your power to soak up HVAs perhaps.

i dunno. seems strange.

havick206
02-16-2018, 01:44 PM
I could see a 4 month or 6 month hiring freeze on FOs while doing everything in your power to soak up HVAs perhaps.

i dunno. seems strange.

Itís simple math given the email R.W. sent out showing the proposed expansion of lines if the rumors above of hiring freeze are true.

They need more captains in order to staff the expansion of lines.

Theyíve pretty much tapped out the forced upgrades in-house, there will only be a slow trickle of FOís hitting upgrade requirements. Just guessing here, but itís pribably not high enough rate to meet the rate of proposed expansion shown in R.Wís email late last year.

Most likely if there is in fact a hiring freeze (as per the rumors above), theyíll only be picking up the cadets and RTP guys until they can even out the Captain side of the house.

I wonder how long until the HVA candidate pool dries up? My guess is they banked on a lot more people jumping at the $45k signing bonus than have actually shown interest or come on board. I personally know of 5 guys that interviewed and went to EDV instead (2 of which were referrals), makes financial sense for them given the hourly rates.

Also donít forget the 25 or so CAís per month flowing off the top.

Azorian
02-16-2018, 01:52 PM
is it an expansion with more lines out of an existing base or is it a new base they are shooting for?

i'm a gnats a$$ from deciding that im out as an HVA altogether, it doesnt make sense to sit junior for my entire time at envoy when i could go in as an FO at another regional and be a captain in a year and have nobody upgrading over my head.

FullThrust
02-16-2018, 01:58 PM
is it an expansion with more lines out of an existing base or is it a new base they are shooting for?

i'm a gnats a$$ from deciding that im out as an HVA altogether, it doesnt make sense to sit junior for my entire time at envoy when i could go in as an FO at another regional and be a captain in a year and have nobody upgrading over my head.

Be careful with that. The problem with not enough CAs is no longer unique to Envoy. Skywest apparently is beginning to feel it as well. Iím sure others are going to follow pretty soon.

havick206
02-16-2018, 02:00 PM
is it an expansion with more lines out of an existing base or is it a new base they are shooting for?

i'm a gnats a$$ from deciding that im out as an HVA altogether, it doesnt make sense to sit junior for my entire time at envoy when i could go in as an FO at another regional and be a captain in a year and have nobody upgrading over my head.

Itís expansion on lines at existing bases.

At LGA as just one example, The email shows roughly 40% increase on lines. Same goes for a bunch of other bases.

The lineholders of the expansion of lines will mostly be taken up by FOís who built up their hours with the company (circa mid to late 2016 early 2017 new hires) as they trickle out the other end of uograde training.

Azorian
02-16-2018, 02:05 PM
Be careful with that. The problem with not enough CAs is no longer unique to Envoy. Skywest apparently is beginning to feel it as well. Iím sure others are going to follow pretty soon.

Look at Mesa, one year upgrade supposedly.

Endeavor isnt doing forced upgrades (yet)

any of them could resort to that at any time, but whats better... to be 50-100 spots up the seniority list when you get CA, or be at the bottom and get it?

bigtime209
02-16-2018, 02:28 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but what sense does a hiring freeze make?

sure, perhaps if they are fat on FOs a hiring freeze for FOs... but a hiring freeze all around?

smells of fish

It's not a hiring freeze all around. It's to cap the number of FOs coming in that aren't near upgrade time. We are fat on FOs and don't have the Captains. Limiting the number of FOs in order to snag high time guys to upgrade and allow sim time for current FOs to upgrade. Here is an excerpt from an ALPA email addressing this:

Rumor Control Ė New Hire Class Sizes
Of late, much has been made about the last new hire class being 'only' 31 pilots, down from what seems to be a perceived "normal" of well over 50. While, a class of 31 isn't abnormally below the numbers we've seen over the average of the last year, the company has indicated their ability/desire to transition towards smaller numbers in each class. Given the lack of captain-qualified first officers, it doesn't make sense to over-populate the ranks of first officers. In today's environment, we can't imagine the company furloughing FOs, however that is exactly what we would be looking at if they continued to hire 100+ pilots per month (as FOs) and were unable to upgrade a similar number of Captains. The operation would quickly become lopsided, and furloughs could result.

We continue to advocate with management that they recognize the value in compensating our pilots as the industry's leaders, along with recognizing our commitment and sacrifice to AAG by providing unmatched career progression, to create an organic path from newhire to FO to CA. But, until management has a tangible reason to change their attitude towards what matters most to the pilots, there's no logical business reason (in management's eyes) to change what they believe is working for them. And since their classes are full, there is little attrition, and the operation is as dependable as ever, there is little incentive for change.

Rather than make economic and QOL improvements that inspire pilots to upgrade at the first chance, they have chosen to simply throttle-down newhire classes. With fewer new FOs, the Company is better able to match the number of newhires with the small number of FOs that can be involuntarily assigned to CA each month.

Despite the uphill battle, the Envoy MEC will never stop fighting for what's best for our pilots, and each Envoy pilot should never sell themselves short of what they deserve.

Bottom line, this company doesn't need more FOs. They need CAs.

bigtime209
02-16-2018, 02:31 PM
is it an expansion with more lines out of an existing base or is it a new base they are shooting for?

i'm a gnats a$$ from deciding that im out as an HVA altogether, it doesnt make sense to sit junior for my entire time at envoy when i could go in as an FO at another regional and be a captain in a year and have nobody upgrading over my head.

It seems like you decided that long ago. I'm not sure why you're still so incredibly hung up on the idea. You see through the BS of the HVA, so why not just let it go. Plenty of other viable options out there. Hats off to you for not getting suckered into it. Now, just move on past and head somewhere else that is more promising for your situation.

Azorian
02-16-2018, 02:32 PM
Bottom line, this company doesn't need more FOs. They need CAs.

thats pretty obvious.

i hope Envoy finds what its looking for.

Azorian
02-16-2018, 02:36 PM
It seems like you decided that long ago. I'm not sure why you're still so incredibly hung up on the idea. You see through the BS of the HVA, so why not just let it go. Plenty of other viable options out there. Hats off to you for not getting suckered into it. Now, just move on past and head somewhere else that is more promising for your situation.

dont mean to give the impression that im "hung up on the idea"... im certainly not that.

however, the more i can learn about whats going on, the better informed i'll be.

information i had when i started this pursuit was that upgrades were a year, then they dropped to 6 months so i applied, then i get there and its instant.

but if my discussions here help others in my shoes make their choice as well, what does it hurt?

stuff that makes you go hmmm

LowValuAviator
02-16-2018, 02:44 PM
That sinking feeling when you realize that hiring cap/freeze rumors might be true and you're the last guy in the door and probably going to have the LGA/145 2 leg commute, eternal reserve gun to your head.

jonrayburn
02-16-2018, 03:00 PM
That sinking feeling when you realize that hiring cap/freeze rumors might be true and you're the last guy in the door and probably going to have the LGA/145 2 leg commute, eternal reserve gun to your head.

lol.Time to hide the sign-on bonus in an offshore account, and jump ship to 9E.

Seaplane
02-16-2018, 03:29 PM
That sinking feeling when you realize that hiring cap/freeze rumors might be true and you're the last guy in the door and probably going to have the LGA/145 2 leg commute, eternal reserve gun to your head.


Coolaid tastes like salt water now

Whiskey4
02-16-2018, 04:13 PM
Hey a friend of friend said they were told during the interview that Envoy is placing a freeze on hiring and told to reapply in 30 days. Anyone hear anything on this?

If your friend of a friend was told to reapply in 30 days then he or she failed the interview...plain and simple. People who pass never hear those words. No truth to this rumor.

UnderCenter
02-16-2018, 04:16 PM
If your friend of a friend was told to reapply in 30 days then he or she failed the interview...plain and simple. People who pass never hear those words. No truth to this rumor.

Agreed, why would they bring you into an interview just to say we arenít hiring and to reapply in 30 days. Doesnít add up.

havick206
02-16-2018, 04:20 PM
If your friend of a friend was told to reapply in 30 days then he or she failed the interview...plain and simple. People who pass never hear those words. No truth to this rumor.

Sounds like a more legit story.

rotorjockey3
02-16-2018, 04:25 PM
I'm an RTP guy and been waiting a month for the final captains board. Is this why I have been waiting so long?

havick206
02-16-2018, 04:32 PM
I'm an RTP guy and been waiting a month for the final captains board. Is this why I have been waiting so long?

No theyíre probably swamped working through the applicants ahead of you in order.

UnderCenter
02-16-2018, 04:33 PM
I'm an RTP guy and been waiting a month for the final captains board. Is this why I have been waiting so long?

Check your spam folder. A month and a half went by before I contacted the recruiters about this same issue. Turns out I went through the board a week after I interviewed and the CJO was in my spam folder for a month and a half.

bigtime209
02-16-2018, 04:34 PM
I'm an RTP guy and been waiting a month for the final captains board. Is this why I have been waiting so long?

More than likely not. There are many things that can slow that process down. More times than not, they're waiting on paperwork to come back from your prior employers. There's no telling what they could be waiting on.

Whiskey4
02-16-2018, 05:02 PM
dont mean to give the impression that im "hung up on the idea"... im certainly not that.

however, the more i can learn about whats going on, the better informed i'll be.

information i had when i started this pursuit was that upgrades were a year, then they dropped to 6 months so i applied, then i get there and its instant.

but if my discussions here help others in my shoes make their choice as well, what does it hurt?

stuff that makes you go hmmm

Just keep in mind that many people on the forums right now are encouraging people like you to go somewhere else with the goal of forcing management to the negotiating table for higher pay rates. Many on here arenít trying to give you a balanced viewpoint (perhaps with the exception of Pedro4President).

LowValuAviator
02-16-2018, 05:15 PM
Coolaid tastes like salt water now

:D

lol.Time to hide the sign-on bonus in an offshore account, and jump ship to 9E.

I'm sure anyone getting brought in now w/ a 4 yr degree and a decent shot at street hire @ the majors after a few years of being a good boy or girl at X regional is wondering whether Endeavor would have been a better choice, especially with the flow through carrot getting so far out on the fishing pole.

havick206
02-16-2018, 05:19 PM
Just keep in mind that many people on the forums right now are encouraging people like you to go somewhere else with the goal of forcing management to the negotiating table for higher pay rates. Many on here arenít trying to give you a balanced viewpoint (perhaps with the exception of Pedro4President).

To be fair thereís both extremes of views being put forward. As we all know itís usually somewhere in the middle.

The place is what you make it. Thereís some things that need improving, and thereís things that are pretty good about the place. It all depends on what you want in your job and what is realistic while working here.

At the end of the day, the biggest factor determining your experience at Envoy is timing, much like any other airline.

highfarfast
02-16-2018, 05:32 PM
Just keep in mind that many people on the forums right now are encouraging people like you to go somewhere else with the goal of forcing management to the negotiating table for higher pay rates. Many on here arenít trying to give you a balanced viewpoint (perhaps with the exception of Pedro4President).

Management? Is that you?

Azorian
02-16-2018, 05:48 PM
Just keep in mind that many people on the forums right now are encouraging people like you to go somewhere else with the goal of forcing management to the negotiating table for higher pay rates. Many on here arenít trying to give you a balanced viewpoint (perhaps with the exception of Pedro4President).

Well thatís not my fight. Regional guys have been trying to get pay raises on the table forever. Meh pay scale is what it is. Iíve never had those delusions

Iíve valued all the input Iíve received here and elsewhere. Envoy has good people working there for the most part. I think more than anything thatís what I would value is a good crew.

I just wish I was coming in at a time when the house was in a little better order. Swing gear for 6-12 months and upgrade in order of proper seniority.

Iím not one of those thatís above throwing gear for a 28 year old captain.

Sad thing is I think Iíd fit in with the pilot group at Envoy pretty well. The bases are good, so is the equipment.

But Iím not willing to sit reserve for most of my career there. Which is what Iím being asked to do.

Just to be clear my decision is made, Ive discussed it with my family and other pilots and the deal isnít attractive. But I can still contribute to the conversation I think.

Bad timing. Just too bad.

flysooner9
02-16-2018, 05:53 PM
Theyíre going to have to throw more then just a 45k bonus and death sentence to LGA to attract any street captains. Especially now that instant upgrades are becoming the norm everywhere like Endeavor and Skywest.

Azorian
02-16-2018, 06:00 PM
Theyíre going to have to throw more then just a 45k bonus and death sentence to LGA to attract any street captains. Especially now that instant upgrades are becoming the norm everywhere like Endeavor and Skywest.

Youíre right.

Why go to instant captain seat and be perpetually hundreds of numbers junior when you can go somewhere else and sit right seat and upgrade into a halfway reasonable quality of life?

flysooner9
02-16-2018, 06:11 PM
Donít even have to sit right seat. Endeavor you can go straight to captain in Atlanta with way better reserve rules and making 80+ an hour plus a 10k bonus.

Skywest lets you take your pay seniority with you. So say someone has been at a different regional for 3 years and has 1,000 121 time you can go there and start at third year captain pay right away.

Envoy has to fix their reserve system and or increase their hourly rates. To attract anyone eligible to be a street captain.

Pedro4President
02-16-2018, 06:28 PM
Youíre right.

Why go to instant captain seat and be perpetually hundreds of numbers junior when you can go somewhere else and sit right seat and upgrade into a halfway reasonable quality of life?

So you live in DFW. I don't see why you wouldn't go anywhere but Envoy.

I think/heard from a friend RW recently said at a CA upgrade dinner we need 400 HVA over two years. All you need is about 50 below you to hold a line in LGA. How long will that take? Who knows. It all depends on how many HVAs join you at Envoy after you. If they hit that number then your QOL will not be as bad as you are expecting. Once you get back to DFW then your QOL will sky rocket. The main question is "How long will you suffer before it gets bearable?" No one can give you an accurate answer. I personally think you would be back to DFW in 12-18 months. But I could be completely wrong.

All I can tell you is that commuting to reserve for Envoy is the absolute worst. Reserve living in base is the absolute best. (Or at least it is right now.) It doesn't matter if you are junior or senior it still sucks.

When reading the horror stories and the positive stories, know that they are both likely true, but likely infrequent or short lived.

Weekendwarrior2
02-16-2018, 06:34 PM
So you live in DFW. I don't see why you wouldn't go anywhere but Envoy.

I think/heard from a friend RW recently said at a CA upgrade dinner we need 400 HVA over two years. All you need is about 50 below you to hold a line in LGA. How long will that take? Who knows. It all depends on how many HVAs join you at Envoy after you. If they hit that number then your QOL will not be as bad as you are expecting. Once you get back to DFW then your QOL will sky rocket. The main question is "How long will you suffer before it gets bearable?" No one can give you an accurate answer. I personally think you would be back to DFW in 12-18 months. But I could be completely wrong.

All I can tell you is that commuting to reserve for Envoy is the absolute worst. Reserve living in base is the absolute best. (Or at least it is right now.) It doesn't matter if you are junior or senior it still sucks.

When reading the horror stories and the positive stories, know that they are both likely true, but likely infrequent or short lived.

Here lies the problem. They want 400 HVAs over two years. No where do they indicate wanting to improve QOL for the pilot group or acknowledge the horrible QOL HVAs will endure if they have to commute to NY. HVA's only saving grace is getting more HVA's in below them and I think we're still too early to tell whether or not the program will work.

Whiskey4
02-16-2018, 06:39 PM
To be fair thereís both extremes of views being put forward. As we all know itís usually somewhere in the middle.

The place is what you make it. Thereís some things that need improving, and thereís things that are pretty good about the place. It all depends on what you want in your job and what is realistic while working here.

At the end of the day, the biggest factor determining your experience at Envoy is timing, much like any other airline.

Absolutely agree!!

DanRoman
02-16-2018, 07:36 PM
Donít even have to sit right seat. Endeavor you can go straight to captain in Atlanta with way better reserve rules and making 80+ an hour plus a 10k bonus.

Skywest lets you take your pay seniority with you. So say someone has been at a different regional for 3 years and has 1,000 121 time you can go there and start at third year captain pay right away.

Envoy has to fix their reserve system and or increase their hourly rates. To attract anyone eligible to be a street captain.

I honestly believe that all they have to do is raise the CA rates to match Endeavorís, and theyíd have the CA problem fixed. There would be no shortage of HVAís waiting in line and many of the the senior FOís bidding reserve (to avoid hitting 1000) would finish their time and upgrade.

Azorian
02-16-2018, 08:42 PM
Here lies the problem. They want 400 HVAs over two years.

wait...

they want 16 HVAs coming aboard per month for the next 24 months?

what are the FOs on property doing??? Envoy cant have that many FOs that are that far out to 1000 hours.

Surely there are at least a few hundred that are within weeks if not a month or two of hitting the time?

EDIT:

assuming you get all 400, thats $18,000,000 in bonuses paid out

offer your high time FOs the $45,000 bonus, pay them 150% for each hour needed to hit 1,000 hours, force their upgrade and base change, once they are there pay them at 200-300% per hour for the next 12 months in the base they didint want and return them to normal payscale when they bid base change or hit 12 months whichever comes first

DanRoman
02-16-2018, 08:46 PM
wait...

they want 16 HVAs coming aboard per month for the next 24 months?

what are the FOs on property doing??? Envoy cant have that many FOs that are that far out to 1000 hours.

Surely there are at least a few hundred that are within weeks if not a month or two of hitting the time?

They shot the wad with the last bid. Thereís surely a handful of FOís close and eager for that 4th stripe, but most are doing everything in their power to avoid hitting 1000.

Ijustlikeflying
02-16-2018, 08:51 PM
wait...

they want 16 HVAs coming aboard per month for the next 24 months?

what are the FOs on property doing??? Envoy cant have that many FOs that are that far out to 1000 hours.

Surely there are at least a few hundred that are within weeks if not a month or two of hitting the time?

Believe it or not, this is true that there isnít a few hundred available. This next bid that comes around will have maybe, and thatís a big maybe, 100 guys with 1000sic. The problem is the crazy highering numbers happened after they announced the 22,100 FO sign on bonus in late 2016, thatís when we started seeing consistent class sizes over 30, before that fos were just trickling In here and there. Yes, sometimes upwards of 20 or so but no where near the numbers weíve been having lately, so we are extremely fat on FOs with low time. Almost 1/3 the pilot group right now has less than 300hours.

Azorian
02-16-2018, 08:57 PM
thats un friggin believable.

1/3rd of the FO group has less than 300 hours. are the lines low time?

When i flew 121 before if you got hired in January, you flew enough that you risked turning into a pumpkin by Christmas the same year! :eek:

Weekendwarrior2
02-16-2018, 08:59 PM
wait...

they want 16 HVAs coming aboard per month for the next 24 months?

what are the FOs on property doing??? Envoy cant have that many FOs that are that far out to 1000 hours.

Surely there are at least a few hundred that are within weeks if not a month or two of hitting the time?

EDIT:

assuming you get all 400, thats $18,000,000 in bonuses paid out

offer your high time FOs the $45,000 bonus, pay them 150% for each hour needed to hit 1,000 hours, force their upgrade and base change, once they are there pay them at 200-300% per hour for the next 12 months in the base they didint want and return them to normal payscale when they bid base change or hit 12 months whichever comes first

Well...as you have said...they have a lot of sub 1,000 hour 121 people on property. I think the real question is (which is what you are asking) is how many of them are going to hit their 1,000 by the next vacancy. I think the true answer is that no one knows. The RESULTS of the next vacancy will be a good indicator of what they have to work with as far as upgrading captains. They can post as many slots as they want, although obviously they have more data than anyone else here does, so it will likely be in line with the number of qualified FO's available for upgrade. At the end of the day management is creating a problem that everyone else forecasted and we are here to watch it play out.

Whiskey4
02-16-2018, 09:07 PM
wait...

they want 16 HVAs coming aboard per month for the next 24 months?

what are the FOs on property doing??? Envoy cant have that many FOs that are that far out to 1000 hours.

Surely there are at least a few hundred that are within weeks if not a month or two of hitting the time?

EDIT:

assuming you get all 400, thats $18,000,000 in bonuses paid out

offer your high time FOs the $45,000 bonus, pay them 150% for each hour needed to hit 1,000 hours, force their upgrade and base change, once they are there pay them at 200-300% per hour for the next 12 months in the base they didint want and return them to normal payscale when they bid base change or hit 12 months whichever comes first

Upgrading current FOs on property as they become qualified likely wonít meet the demand for Captains that will be a side-effect of growing the fleet by 40+ aircraft. Management was recently very clear that a core strategic initiative of he company is achieving a 200+ fleet count (and it appears they are trying to do so fairly rapidly). Growth of an airline is generally positive for pilots, but clearly the rate matters.

Azorian
02-16-2018, 09:12 PM
what a mess

Pedro4President
02-16-2018, 09:15 PM
Upgrading current FOs on property as they become qualified likely wonít meet the demand for Captains that will be a side-effect of growing the fleet by 40+ aircraft. Management was recently very clear that a core strategic initiative of he company is achieving a 200+ fleet count (and it appears they are trying to do so fairly rapidly). Growth of an airline is generally positive for pilots, but clearly the rate matters.

There has to be something else in the works going forward. There is a 2:1 line:reserve split going on right now with CAs. There has to be a new base announcement or something coming down the line very soon for us to have this much excess....the last time I saw it get this far on the CA side was right before the 175 came online.

Azorian
02-16-2018, 09:21 PM
There has to be something else in the works going forward. There is a 2:1 line:reserve split going on right now with CAs. There has to be a new base announcement or something coming down the line very soon for us to have this much excess....the last time I saw it get this far on the CA side was right before the 175 came online.

thats an interesting angle, boost the captain numbers so you can keep a new base staffed.

but where would they base... they have the the Northeast covered, Chicago and DFW are your mid-continents, Miami is well... in florida lol

where do you go from there? LAX? DEN? PHX?

and if your theory is correct, why such a push to force people to LGA? if its because LGA is short staffed, a new base would be suicide

SilentLurker
02-17-2018, 01:14 AM
Donít even have to sit right seat. Endeavor you can go straight to captain in Atlanta with way better reserve rules and making 80+ an hour plus a 10k bonus.



Skywest lets you take your pay seniority with you. So say someone has been at a different regional for 3 years and has 1,000 121 time you can go there and start at third year captain pay right away.



Envoy has to fix their reserve system and or increase their hourly rates. To attract anyone eligible to be a street captain.


Iím strongly contemplating jumping ship to Endeavor, for this exact reason. Haha! Itís a tough decision to make. Just thinking long term here.

One thing I love about this HVA fiasco recruiting tool is that Envoy is showing itís true colors on how it views its current Pilots/Employees on property. Unlike other Regionals. I suspect attrition will take a hit soon from various directions. If Iím thinking about it, I know others are as well. The math added up.

Once FOís get close to 1,000 hrs. They can jump ship to Endeavor (1st yr at Envoy, means u owe approx $10K out of your approx $20K bonus If you left before your 2-yr mark. Well guess who is still paying its pilots bonuses??? Endeavors! That $10K bonus can pay off the remainder of the 2yr contract at Envoy. Facts.

Guess who is not requiring you to sign up for 2yrs for a Bonus or to pay back the $10k bonus they give you? Endeavor. Because they have confidence in their product and ďVALUEĒ their Pilots on property.

Great timing to be a regional pilot overall. Endeavor is Upgrading folks who have the time as well. Much much better CA rate, Soft Pay, and reserve rules. Facts. Tough decisions Iím looking into.

Should I stay or should I go? Haha

chrisreedrules
02-17-2018, 01:17 AM
When PSA decides to stop hiring FOs in favor of DECs for a few months a couple years back it was disastrous. When they decided to resume hiring FOs they spooked everyone interested off and things slowed/stagnated for almost a year. It just sends the wrong message. Sounds like a mess over there. Hopefully your management is making sound decisions.

Seaplane
02-17-2018, 01:48 AM
Step 1: Change pay/reserve
Step 2: Advertise hard to pilots at other airlines that currently have 1000hrs. Let them know life will be the same even with a longer reserve expected.
Step 3: Problem solved.

The pilots that donít even work for envoy ultimately will dictate what envoy does.... envoy canít grow without them. A bonus isnít enough. These future pilot indirectly affect us. Without them, metered flow, stagnation, an more forced displacements. Management will soon learn, then make one more last try to screw the current pilot group again(mostly pay), but then they will have to give in. That will happen in Nov Ď18. After the summer passes and we canít staff the flying, becuse we canít grow. envoy will soon be in the same boat that peidmomt is currently in.

havick206
02-17-2018, 03:54 AM
There has to be something else in the works going forward. There is a 2:1 line:reserve split going on right now with CAs. There has to be a new base announcement or something coming down the line very soon for us to have this much excess....the last time I saw it get this far on the CA side was right before the 175 came online.

Theres supposed to be 131 new lines at existing bases between jan and jun going by RW email last year.

The question remains whether there are enough FOís that are upgradeable, street CA new hires to meet the demand of the expansion above and 25 CAís walking out the door each month not taking into account any OAL attrition or retirements.

For all we know there are enough people to cover it, only the recruiters and the company knows the true numbers. My money is still on we are short iligible upgrade candidates.

BIueSideUp
02-17-2018, 04:29 AM
Iím strongly contemplating jumping ship to Endeavor, for this exact reason. Haha! Itís a tough decision to make. Just thinking long term here.

One thing I love about this HVA fiasco recruiting tool is that Envoy is showing itís true colors on how it views its current Pilots/Employees on property. Unlike other Regionals. I suspect attrition will take a hit soon from various directions. If Iím thinking about it, I know others are as well. The math added up.

Once FOís get close to 1,000 hrs. They can jump ship to Endeavor (1st yr at Envoy, means u owe approx $10K out of your approx $20K bonus If you left before your 2-yr mark. Well guess who is still paying its pilots bonuses??? Endeavors! That $10K bonus can pay off the remainder of the 2yr contract at Envoy. Facts.

Guess who is not requiring you to sign up for 2yrs for a Bonus or to pay back the $10k bonus they give you? Endeavor. Because they have confidence in their product and ďVALUEĒ their Pilots on property.

Great timing to be a regional pilot overall. Endeavor is Upgrading folks who have the time as well. Much much better CA rate, Soft Pay, and reserve rules. Facts. Tough decisions Iím looking into.

Should I stay or should I go? Haha

Iíve recently had this exact thought process run through my mind. You are not alone, sir.

havick206
02-17-2018, 04:46 AM
Iíve recently had this exact thought process run through my mind. You are not alone, sir.

Whatís stopping you from pulling the trigger?

AZPilotMike
02-17-2018, 05:26 AM
Whatís stopping you from pulling the trigger?

Perhaps notnat 1000 hours yet?

SFA320
02-17-2018, 05:54 AM
It sounds like chasing off 1500 guys 2.5-3 years ago is really biting them in the rear now. I know a lot of 3-8 year FOs that found greener pastures during that timeframe. I

Whiskey4
02-17-2018, 07:00 AM
It sounds like chasing off 1500 guys 2.5-3 years ago is really biting them in the rear now. I know a lot of 3-8 year FOs that found greener pastures during that timeframe. I

Iím still not convinced that had much to do with Envoy management. It was amazing to watch the turn around following Scott Kirbyís departure from, and Robert Isomís rise into the President role...Night and day difference for Envoy. One minute concessions are being demanded, we are being threatened with ďComair IIĒ, and we shed 1500+ pilots. Next they are handing out bonuses, adding commuter hotels, and hiring like crazy. Envoy execs like Pedro have always been very pro-Envoy and very pro-growth...I can only guess that Kirbyís reign was rough for them. AAG appeared to be pulling the strings hard back then (hell, we couldnít even negotiate with our own management, but rather an AAG hired gun). I think the current AAG strategy under Isom is letting them maneuver a bit. So, now we are watching Envoy management trying to reclaim everything that was lost and return to the ďgood old daysĒ of American Eagle (regarding airline size).

havick206
02-17-2018, 07:27 AM
Iím still not convinced that had much to do with Envoy management. It was amazing to watch the turn around following Scott Kirbyís departure from, and Robert Isomís rise into the President role...Night and day difference for Envoy. One minute concessions are being demanded, we are being threatened with ďComair IIĒ, and we shed 1500+ pilots. Next they are handing out bonuses, adding commuter hotels, and hiring like crazy. Envoy execs like Pedro have always been very pro-Envoy and very pro-growth...I can only guess that Kirbyís reign was rough for them. AAG appeared to be pulling the strings hard back then (hell, we couldnít even negotiate with our own management, but rather an AAG hired gun). I think the current AAG strategy under Isom is letting them maneuver a bit. So, now we are watching Envoy management trying to reclaim everything that was lost and return to the ďgood old daysĒ of American Eagle (regarding airline size).

ďMeet the new boss, same as the old bossĒ.

Donít kid yourself, every facet of aviation comes down to keeping overheads down as much as possible no matter who is running the show.

Pedro4President
02-17-2018, 08:12 AM
Iím still not convinced that had much to do with Envoy management. It was amazing to watch the turn around following Scott Kirbyís departure from, and Robert Isomís rise into the President role...Night and day difference for Envoy. One minute concessions are being demanded, we are being threatened with ďComair IIĒ, and we shed 1500+ pilots. Next they are handing out bonuses, adding commuter hotels, and hiring like crazy. Envoy execs like Pedro have always been very pro-Envoy and very pro-growth...I can only guess that Kirbyís reign was rough for them. AAG appeared to be pulling the strings hard back then (hell, we couldnít even negotiate with our own management, but rather an AAG hired gun). I think the current AAG strategy under Isom is letting them maneuver a bit. So, now we are watching Envoy management trying to reclaim everything that was lost and return to the ďgood old daysĒ of American Eagle (regarding airline size).

You maybe right. However his point still stands. There was a concerted effort to push pilots from Envoy. It makes no difference who did it.

I know people left because Miami and NY closed. Chasing away that many potential CAs was a huge mistake for Envoy.

BIueSideUp
02-17-2018, 02:04 PM
Whatís stopping you from pulling the trigger?

Perhaps notnat 1000 hours yet?

Hours-wise Iím not to that point just yet. When Iím about there, I have a list of scenarios/options that Iíve been building which Iíll use to assess the best course of action and execute.