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View Full Version : Jumpseat beware Attn: commuters


Al Czervik
02-17-2018, 03:37 AM
Like peace of mind? Like booking a reserved seat on your commute?

Send your soundoffs if you like being able to depend on your commute. The brain trust is trying to change things so the senior non commuter boneheads who canít make a simple phone call can bump you off a commute. Donít let them change this huge QOL.

APA links: SOUNDOFF


jcountry
02-17-2018, 04:15 AM
Like peace of mind? Like booking a reserved seat on your commute?

Send your soundoffs if you like being able to depend on your commute. The brain trust is trying to change things so the senior non commuter boneheads who canít make a simple phone call can bump you off a commute. Donít let them change this huge QOL.

APA links: SOUNDOFF


They will change it. Because it's APA. ****ing up QOL is what they do.

Arado 234
02-17-2018, 04:25 AM
Again? Don't those c****s have anything else to do? Is TW still obsessed with this?


jcountry
02-17-2018, 05:19 AM
Again? Don't those c****s have anything else to do? Is TW still obsessed with this?

They donít.

Screwing their own pilots is a hobby for them.

Iíve never seen anything like APA. They take money from people and very purposefully screw them at almost every juncture

Floobs
02-17-2018, 06:09 AM
Like peace of mind? Like booking a reserved seat on your commute?

Send your soundoffs if you like being able to depend on your commute. The brain trust is trying to change things so the senior non commuter boneheads who canít make a simple phone call can bump you off a commute. Donít let them change this huge QOL.

APA links: SOUNDOFF

Thought we were done with this nonsense? Is there some kind of new push going on?

jcountry
02-17-2018, 06:35 AM
Thought we were done with this nonsense? Is there some kind of new push going on?

Well, from what I understand, they passed a hybrid system (which will result in only very Senior folks being able to commute predictably) and plan to implement it when no one is paying attention. Iím still amazed that our own union does this sort of thing to us.

No vote by the membership-because why bother? APA couldnít possibly care less what membership thinks.

PRS Guitars
02-17-2018, 07:08 AM
Thanks AL.

Soundoff sent...

Smoke Toliet
02-17-2018, 07:15 AM
Sound off sent

jcountry
02-17-2018, 07:20 AM
I will too.

I wish we could scare these bastards into putting it up for a full membership vote. The current system would win out by light years....

But one only has to go to the AArena to see why they wonít. Too many in our ranks get a real kick out of screwing others

Al Czervik
02-17-2018, 07:28 AM
“Delta has it?”

Well, LETS GET RID OF IT!!!!!

That idea with profit sharing worked pretty well APA!

jcountry
02-17-2018, 07:33 AM
ďDelta has it?Ē

Well, LETS GET RID OF IT!!!!!

That idea with profit sharing worked pretty well APA!

Yep.

And letís strip out each and every benefit in both west and east contracts.... because we have always done it that way....

Itís also cute to see that they try and take credit for our profit sharing. That was 100% mgmt.

Arado 234
02-17-2018, 11:48 AM
Well, from what I understand, they passed a hybrid system (which will result in only very Senior folks being able to commute predictably) and plan to implement it when no one is paying attention. Iím still amazed that our own union does this sort of thing to us.

No vote by the membership-because why bother? APA couldnít possibly care less what membership thinks.

AA73, can you confirm this?

Another thought... What about contacting senior AA management directly telling them that the new system would be detrimental to almost all commuters (aka crew reliability) and also that we cannot rely on our own union to protect our own interests.

Out West
02-17-2018, 12:40 PM
I donít understand this at all, but being able to commute and not relocate is maybe the #1 draw to this industry for me and I assume many others? Lots of places pay well - but require moving to some place like (insert any airline hub here.) Uh, no thanks.

This doesnít sound good for American.

Al Czervik
02-17-2018, 12:45 PM
I donít understand this at all, but being able to commute and not relocate is maybe the #1 draw to this industry for me and I assume many others? Lots of places pay well - but require moving to some place like (insert any airline hub here.) Uh, no thanks.

This doesnít sound good for American.

No. And the DFW Guy that wants it changed to seniority is telling everyone ďno, itís not changing. Stop making waves it may get debated if you do.Ē Thatís some highly suspect repartee, dude!

Kebert Xela
02-17-2018, 12:50 PM
Like peace of mind? Like booking a reserved seat on your commute?

Send your soundoffs if you like being able to depend on your commute. The brain trust is trying to change things so the senior non commuter boneheads who canít make a simple phone call can bump you off a commute. Donít let them change this huge QOL.

APA links: SOUNDOFF


Iím a new hire and I honestly donít fully understand what this means. Iím a commuter; so if I book my commute to get to work and someone senior to me wants to travel D2 for a vacation, they can bump me due to seniority alone?

Again Iím just trying to fully grasp what this means... thanks

aa73
02-17-2018, 12:52 PM
AA73, can you confirm this?

Another thought... What about contacting senior AA management directly telling them that the new system would be detrimental to almost all commuters (aka crew reliability) and also that we cannot rely on our own union to protect our own interests.

Iím stepping down from the committee so no longer in the loop on what goes on... However, nothing surprises me anymore. Send those soundoffs.

Sunfish FAIP
02-17-2018, 01:19 PM
Iím a new hire and I honestly donít fully understand what this means. Iím a commuter; so if I book my commute to get to work and someone senior to me wants to travel D2 for a vacation, they can bump me due to seniority alone?

Again Iím just trying to fully grasp what this means... thanks

Hey man that's right....they won't give a damn that you're having to go to work and earn a living to feed the family. If they want to go somewhere to play golf or circle jerk their drinking buddy then they would take priority over you for the jumpseat. The talk in the street is that they would get the upper hand up until 5 days prior to departure.

As of right now, 8 days prior to dep at 2000 CST, the jumpseat(s) become available first come first serve.

Mover
02-17-2018, 02:11 PM
Hey man that's right....they won't give a damn that you're having to go to work and earn a living to feed the family. If they want to go somewhere to play golf or circle jerk their drinking buddy then they would take priority over you for the jumpseat. The talk in the street is that they would get the upper hand up until 5 days prior to departure.

As of right now, 8 days prior to dep at 2000 CST, the jumpseat(s) become available first come first serve.

I wish this were hyperbole but it's nearly verbatim what SEVERAL senior 777 CAs have said - you know, the same guys who can't figure out their jitterbug phones and are enjoying 5 extra years of seniority on the backs of the lost decade.

jcountry
02-17-2018, 02:36 PM
Iím a new hire and I honestly donít fully understand what this means. Iím a commuter; so if I book my commute to get to work and someone senior to me wants to travel D2 for a vacation, they can bump me due to seniority alone?

Again Iím just trying to fully grasp what this means... thanks

Realistically, depends on where you commute from.

Poor folks from PIT will really, really get hosed. As if that commute isnít bad enough already, only the top tier of really senior folks will be able to do it reliably

jcountry
02-17-2018, 02:38 PM
No. And the DFW Guy that wants it changed to seniority is telling everyone ďno, itís not changing. Stop making waves it may get debated if you do.Ē Thatís some highly suspect repartee, dude!

Seems VERY suspect-considering the source.

He was the biggest chest thumper ever for a 100% seniority only system.....

And now he doesnít want to make waves with debate?

Right.

PRS Guitars
02-17-2018, 03:15 PM
Iím a new hire and I honestly donít fully understand what this means. Iím a commuter; so if I book my commute to get to work and someone senior to me wants to travel D2 for a vacation, they can bump me due to seniority alone?

Again Iím just trying to fully grasp what this means... thanks

No this isnít what it means at all. It has nothing to do with non rev travel. Currently, an AA pilot can reserve the JS 8 days prior and if itís open...itís theirs. The original hybrid proposal was the first few days seniority rules, so a more senior pilot can take the reservation from the jr guy until maybe 3 or 5 days out. Then it would lock in to whoeverís got it, or if still open, would be first come first serve.

Thatís assuming they use that original proposal. Which is really the only way a hybrid system could work. If you reverse it, itíd be pointless and just be a pure seniority system. Iíve not met a single pilot, LAA/LUS/AWA/TWA etc, that wants to change the current system.

Iím now at a base that has far more OAL commute options for me, and the threat of this hybrid system was in my decision matrix to choose this base over DFW.

chrisreedrules
02-17-2018, 03:35 PM
Why is it just AA that you hear about this kind of nonsense at?

R57 relay
02-17-2018, 03:53 PM
Iím stepping down from the committee so no longer in the loop on what goes on... However, nothing surprises me anymore. Send those soundoffs.

I'm sorry to hear that, but don't blame you. You did a great job, thanks!

mainlineAF
02-17-2018, 03:55 PM
Why is it just AA that you hear about this kind of nonsense at?



Well to be fair i think UA and SWA jumpseatís are straight seniority.

But yea the shenanigans are ridiculous.

R57 relay
02-17-2018, 03:59 PM
When you hear someone say that jumpseat should be by seniority because they have XX years of blood, sweat and tears and thus should go first...just remind them that our seniority list is not by DOH and chances are there are folks here with more LOS. Perhaps, that if they want jumpseat by seniority, you know-for the time, they should support jumpseat by DOH. Usually quiets them, for a while.

Name User
02-17-2018, 04:14 PM
When you hear someone say that jumpseat should be by seniority because they have XX years of blood, sweat and tears and thus should go first...just remind them that our seniority list is not by DOH and chances are there are folks here with more LOS. Perhaps, that if they want jumpseat by seniority, you know-for the time, they should support jumpseat by DOH. Usually quiets them, for a while.

I kinda disagree with what you are trying to say because you know what they are talking about. Seniority is by seniority list.

Cheddar
02-17-2018, 04:24 PM
WTF with these people. I will never understand our propensity to be our worst enemies.


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Cheddar
02-17-2018, 04:25 PM
I will be voting for a complete change in DFW!


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R57 relay
02-17-2018, 04:36 PM
I kinda disagree with what you are trying to say because you know what they are talking about. Seniority is by seniority list.

Yeah, but the argument is for time served, right?

You ever notice how some LAA guy complain about former AWA guys with less LOS being senior to them, but think nothing of the LUS east guys that are in the same boat as they are?

Of course they are arguing for seniority list, it's what favors them most.

R57 relay
02-17-2018, 04:40 PM
Name user- were you LUS?

At LUS, did we pass ride by seniority, or DOH?

R57 relay
02-17-2018, 04:54 PM
I will give the JS by seniority crowd a point. Many of us at US couldn't understand why someone would give up a know seat for seniority. Guys would say "What if your trip gets screwed up and you have to change rides home?" Many of us asked "How often does that happen to give up a known seat?" Well, we've learned that it happens a lot with AA. We just didn't understand the depth of reschedule here. At LUS, we just didn't get rescheduled as much.

Name User
02-17-2018, 05:37 PM
Name user- were you LUS?

At LUS, did we pass ride by seniority, or DOH?

I was LUS and preferred that system the most but Parker made his decision. First come first serve...

Arado 234
02-17-2018, 05:49 PM
I was LUS and preferred that system the most but Parker made his decision. First come first serve...

True, but thanks to TW we lost the weight protection for the jumpseater!

Most LAA guys will just shrug it off and tell you that they never had it anyway...

(________)

R57 relay
02-17-2018, 06:27 PM
True, but thanks to TW we lost the weight protection for the jumpseater!

Most LAA guys will just shrug it off and tell you that they never had it anyway...

(________)

A recently retired manager told me that Isom was amazed that we let the weight protection of our former jumpseat agreement slip through our hands by arguing over the reservation system. They were willing to sign on to the LUS system.

R57 relay
02-17-2018, 06:27 PM
I was LUS and preferred that system the most but Parker made his decision. First come first serve...

Yeah, but you are missing the point. It was DOH, what many don't want here.

Name User
02-17-2018, 07:11 PM
Yeah, but you are missing the point. It was DOH, what many don't want here.

What was DOH? The non rev system? How am I missing that point? Parker said DOH as a non rev system was a non-starter.

R57 relay
02-17-2018, 07:17 PM
What was DOH? The non rev system? How am I missing that point? Parker said DOH as a non rev system was a non-starter.


Never mind.

Saabs
02-17-2018, 09:19 PM
What was DOH? The non rev system? How am I missing that point? Parker said DOH as a non rev system was a non-starter.

Whatís your source on that? Iíve only heard Parker say that about retiree travel. He could care less about Jumpseat as thatís many many management levels below him. Doubt he even knows or cares. Reference every crew news ever.

A330FoodCritic
02-17-2018, 09:40 PM
Again? Don't those c****s have anything else to do? Is TW still obsessed with this?

That guy needs to go!

Arado 234
02-18-2018, 02:13 AM
That guy needs to go!

Last gossip I heard is that he wants to run for APA president.

Remember, he is the one (if my memory serves me right) that sued APA because of electronic voting. The reason or thought behind this is that the old timers will take the time to paper vote whereas the millennials won't bother with it.

Arado 234
02-18-2018, 02:16 AM
I’m stepping down from the committee so no longer in the loop on what goes on... However, nothing surprises me anymore. Send those soundoffs.

aa73, I am probably one of the most negative people out here and we probably didn't agree a lot, but I want to thank you for your time and dedication.

You actually deserve the right to complain because you tried to do something about issues here at AA/APA.

jcountry
02-18-2018, 02:33 AM
Last gossip I heard is that he wants to run for APA president.

Remember, he is the one (if my memory serves me right) that sued APA because of electronic voting. The reason or thought behind this is that the old timers will take the time to paper vote whereas the millennials won't bother with it.

That POS ran last time.

Our current POS is light years better than he would be.

jcountry
02-18-2018, 02:37 AM
aa73, I am probably one of the most negative people out here and we probably didn't agree a lot, but I want to thank you for your time and dedication.

You actually deserve the right to complain because you tried to do something about issues here at AA/APA.

I wonder whether APA can be fixed.

So many people have tried (and failed) to turn this union into something approaching acceptability.

I think we will probably have to see about 1/3 of our pilots retire before we get rid of the cancer which leads to so many of our problems.

The large number of our pilots who just want to **** other pilots is extremely toxic. I donít think there is a way to fix that.

(And TW does a masterful job of representing the ď**** everyone elseĒ component.)

Clint
02-18-2018, 03:06 AM
Congratulations to whoever revised the old rumor, for getting everybody fired up for something that not only has not been officially announced, but has actually been verified by a board member to not be true.

Over on the Facebook groups, at least 5-6 threads have popped up about the changes coming to revert the JS system to being seniority based. Among those was a post from somebody who posted his sound off and response, which said that this subject has not been a topic of discussion since 2015.

In the short time I’ve been here, I’ve heard this rumor repeatedly. I’m not sure why it get started recently, but I would guess it has to do with how sensitive everybody has become to proposals, in light of the AIP, LTD, LOS, etc., issues.

Just six months ago the JS committee managed to get a minor modification to the JS system that spelled out the PNR phonetically and converted the D2WA to D2WP if the D2WP cancelled. I talked to a member of the JS committee who told me that even that minor modification cost thousands of man hours. The company doesn’t give two craps about changing the JS system, and if you think they’re just going to completely overhaul it based on APA’s request, you’re dreaming.

Al Czervik
02-18-2018, 03:24 AM
I wonder whether APA can be fixed.

So many people have tried (and failed) to turn this union into something approaching acceptability.

I think we will probably have to see about 1/3 of our pilots retire before we get rid of the cancer which leads to so many of our problems.

The large number of our pilots who just want to **** other pilots is extremely toxic. I donít think there is a way to fix that.

(And TW does a masterful job of representing the ď**** everyone elseĒ component.)

It will take a total cleanse of the old guys. They are disfumctional and not big picture people. Theyíve been in the APA bubble too long. Time will fix this. We have some really great pilots getting involved now.

Arado 234
02-18-2018, 03:25 AM
Congratulations to whoever revised the old rumor, for getting everybody fired up for something that not only has not been officially announced, but has actually been verified by a board member to not be true.

Over on the Facebook groups, at least 5-6 threads have popped up about the changes coming to revert the JS system to being seniority based. Among those was a post from somebody who posted his sound off and response, which said that this subject has not been a topic of discussion since 2015.

In the short time Iíve been here, Iíve heard this rumor repeatedly. Iím not sure why it get started recently, but I would guess it has to do with how sensitive everybody has become to proposals, in light of the AIP, LTD, LOS, etc., issues.

Just six months ago the JS committee managed to get a minor modification to the JS system that spelled out the PNR phonetically and converted the D2WA to D2WP if the D2WP cancelled. I talked to a member of the JS committee who told me that even that minor modification cost thousands of man hours. The company doesnít give two craps about changing the JS system, and if you think theyíre just going to completely overhaul it based on APAís request, youíre dreaming.

But but but ... APA is not afraid giving stuff away! (especially if it wasn't invented here)

Remember the last-leg trip swap?

Al Czervik
02-18-2018, 03:30 AM
Congratulations to whoever revised the old rumor, for getting everybody fired up for something that not only has not been officially announced, but has actually been verified by a board member to not be true.

Over on the Facebook groups, at least 5-6 threads have popped up about the changes coming to revert the JS system to being seniority based. Among those was a post from somebody who posted his sound off and response, which said that this subject has not been a topic of discussion since 2015.

In the short time Iíve been here, Iíve heard this rumor repeatedly. Iím not sure why it get started recently, but I would guess it has to do with how sensitive everybody has become to proposals, in light of the AIP, LTD, LOS, etc., issues.

Just six months ago the JS committee managed to get a minor modification to the JS system that spelled out the PNR phonetically and converted the D2WA to D2WP if the D2WP cancelled. I talked to a member of the JS committee who told me that even that minor modification cost thousands of man hours. The company doesnít give two craps about changing the JS system, and if you think theyíre just going to completely overhaul it based on APAís request, youíre dreaming.

I agree that the company will not change the IVR. It cost money and more importantly they know it gets pilots to work. The big point here is the union going in directions the membership doesnít want and is detrimental to the QOL of the members. TW has stated this is not being pushed or even debated. I think heís lying.

Name User
02-18-2018, 04:26 AM
Whatís your source on that? Iíve only heard Parker say that about retiree travel. He could care less about Jumpseat as thatís many many management levels below him. Doubt he even knows or cares. Reference every crew news ever.

Non rev isn't the same as jumpseat, he stated repeatedly in crew news that we weren't going back to seniority on pass travel.

Name User
02-18-2018, 04:28 AM
I can't even begin to imagine the programming complexity of a hybrid reservation system. It would have to "take bids" for the first few days then award the js to whomever was senior. Then revert to FCFS...

The amount of money it would cost would be astronomical and better spent elsewhere in the contract IMO.

I would much much much rather see the ability to book the js as we book regular D2 travel online, that would be better money spent.

PRS Guitars
02-18-2018, 05:12 AM
I can't even begin to imagine the programming complexity of a hybrid reservation system. It would have to "take bids" for the first few days then award the js to whomever was senior. Then revert to FCFS...



I was thinking about this yesterday, I agree. They claim that to be able to do a simple last leg swap is too much IT work. A hybrid system would be very complex from an IT perspective.

Clint,

Youíre probably right, I did send a soundoff, but I worded it very nicely and Iím pretty sure they donít get read anyway, so no harm no foul.

bigscrillywilli
02-18-2018, 08:36 AM
Time to pull the plug on AAPA was the first year of $6B in profits and endless IT/Programming BS excuses. What did they make the last 3 years? $15Bíish? Just think of the money that cost all of us and AAPA goes to the media to b#*%h that our PS lags behind our peers!

jcountry
02-18-2018, 09:59 AM
It will take a total cleanse of the old guys. They are disfumctional and not big picture people. Theyíve been in the APA bubble too long. Time will fix this. We have some really great pilots getting involved now.

Absolutely!

As ****ed as I am about the turds running stuff now, I am excited about the really great folks who should get elected soon.

jcountry
02-18-2018, 10:04 AM
I agree that the company will not change the IVR. It cost money and more importantly they know it gets pilots to work. The big point here is the union going in directions the membership doesnít want and is detrimental to the QOL of the members. TW has stated this is not being pushed or even debated. I think heís lying.

He is.

I personally was told about the hybrid system a while back by a director of flight.

He didnít state it as a ďmaybeĒ or a ďpossibility.Ē He said once Sabre could be programmed for the hybrid system it would be done.

The way he put it, the union had already done it and the company would implement when the time was right.

Arado 234
02-18-2018, 10:39 AM
He is.

I personally was told about the hybrid system a while back by a director of flight.

He didnít state it as a ďmaybeĒ or a ďpossibility.Ē He said once Sabre could be programmed for the hybrid system it would be done.

The way he put it, the union had already done it and the company would implement when the time was right.

So... Any way to find out how much money APA or AA spent on this?

Time to call some reps? Can we get a statement from TW in writing that he is not pursuing this?

jcountry
02-18-2018, 10:51 AM
So... Any way to find out how much money APA or AA spent on this?

Time to call some reps? Can we get a statement from TW in writing that he is not pursuing this?

Read his statement more carefully. See exactly how he phrased it. Technically, it might not be a lie, but it is very misleading.

This all goes back to the other rumor I heard-not from the same person, but from a person who was actually in these meetings.... That guy told me that the hybrid system was passed and tabled-for implementation later.

This guy used exactly the same phrase about Sabre programming.

This kind of shady ass stuff is how our union operates. Just look at how the latest agreement on min day and LOS was negotiated .... I think DC had the board vote him full authority to negotiate by himself-with no input or approval from the negotiation committee.

I should add that this is all second hand info-and I think TW is being very misleading, based on the stuff I have heard. I could be wrong, but it sure is interesting that I heard the same exact story from these two guys-who don’t know each other, or travel in the same circles.

aa73
02-18-2018, 12:52 PM
aa73, I am probably one of the most negative people out here and we probably didn't agree a lot, but I want to thank you for your time and dedication.

You actually deserve the right to complain because you tried to do something about issues here at AA/APA.

Thanks, to you and R57 for the comments. Trying to keep my glass half full!

viking767
02-19-2018, 11:20 AM
I heard the jumpseat was going to be available to commuters only.
No more cockpit jumpseat unless you are going to or from work.

ipdanno
02-19-2018, 03:08 PM
Well to be fair i think UA and SWA jumpseatís are straight seniority....

SWA jumpseat is FCFS, starting at 1 hour prior, at the gate. After you have non-rev listed. WN priority over OAL, natch'.

Saabs
02-19-2018, 04:22 PM
I heard the jumpseat was going to be available to commuters only.
No more cockpit jumpseat unless you are going to or from work.

Haha that cracked me up

What the heck does it even mean when people say itís not a commuters seat? I donít get what they are trying to say. When I commuted I used it. When I go on vacation I use it.

TransWorld
02-19-2018, 05:44 PM
Haha that cracked me up

What the heck does it even mean when people say itís not a commuters seat? I donít get what they are trying to say. When I commuted I used it. When I go on vacation I use it.

I am commuting to my vacation destination!

ALF659
02-20-2018, 04:55 PM
I was thinking about this yesterday, I agree. They claim that to be able to do a simple last leg swap is too much IT work. A hybrid system would be very complex from an IT perspective.

Clint,

Youíre probably right, I did send a soundoff, but I worded it very nicely and Iím pretty sure they donít get read anyway, so no harm no foul.

I talked to a national jumpseat committee member and he said the company laughed at the hybrid system and said the IT was impossible. There is a new app based system in the works that will let everyone see who has the jumpseat reserved so that we can police ourselves and call out the douchbags who reserve 5 jumpseats for the same day. He said the new system wouldn't be online until Jan 2019.

EMBFlyer
02-21-2018, 07:40 AM
I talked to a national jumpseat committee member and he said the company laughed at the hybrid system and said the IT was impossible. There is a new app based system in the works that will let everyone see who has the jumpseat reserved so that we can police ourselves and call out the douchbags who reserve 5 jumpseats for the same day. He said the new system wouldn't be online until Jan 2019.

But, but, but...THE RESOLUTION!!! The Board passed THE RESOLUTION!! THE RESOLUTION!!!

Maybe TW needs to wave the paper a little harder.

Arado 234
02-21-2018, 08:15 AM
Read Al's other post. I wonder what good ol' TW will answer when he gets directly asked about the jumpseat IVR and it's future!

When does this POS retire?

Arado 234
02-21-2018, 08:21 AM
[...]

They claim that to be able to do a simple last leg swap is too much IT work. A hybrid system would be very complex from an IT perspective.

[...]



We had it before, so they can't find the old programming lines? Or does it have to be re-programmed because it's not superior enough?

What kind of BS is this? Who does this union represent?

mainlineAF
02-21-2018, 09:37 AM
Read Al's other post. I wonder what good ol' TW will answer when he gets directly asked about the jumpseat IVR and it's future!

When does this POS retire?



Heís here until 12/2023. [emoji15]

Al Czervik
02-21-2018, 09:55 AM
Heís here until 12/2023. [emoji15]

He may fly here until 2023. He will not be working for US much longer.

Mover
02-21-2018, 12:45 PM
He may fly here until 2023. He will not be working AGAINST US much longer.

Fixed it for you.

Cheddar
02-21-2018, 04:25 PM
Fixed it for you.



+1


........./


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Name User
02-21-2018, 04:30 PM
Is everyone voting for RB?

For VC I'm picking the youngest guy, I think he was 41, figure he has the most to lose with loss of scope etc. He's a relative new hire I believe.

Clint
02-22-2018, 02:18 AM
Is everyone voting for RB?

For VC I'm picking the youngest guy, I think he was 41, figure he has the most to lose with loss of scope etc. He's a relative new hire I believe.
Ditto on both.

jcountry
02-22-2018, 05:17 AM
He may fly here until 2023. He will not be working for US much longer.

I would love to see that turd flushed! Might take a plunger, a snake. Maybe even an M80.... Getting that ******* out of office would be worth the inconvenience.

God. When I think about all the horrible stuff he has tried to do over the years. He is a cancer.

Thankfully, the % of folks he represents grows smaller by the day. The more of those guys retire, the better this place will become.

Arado 234
02-22-2018, 07:20 AM
I would love to see that turd flushed! Might take a plunger, a snake. Maybe even an M80.... Getting that ******* out of office would be worth the inconvenience.

God. When I think about all the horrible stuff he has tried to do over the years. He is a cancer.

Thankfully, the % of folks he represents grows smaller by the day. The more of those guys retire, the better this place will become.

The first step in the right direction is electronic voting. He hates it for a good reason!

Al Czervik
02-22-2018, 10:55 AM
Keep sending daily soundoffs. AA IT confirmed APA has made a formal request for these changes. IT said it would be “years of service” I wonder if the 777 brain trust in DFW Knows most of the CLT 320 CA’s will bump them?

jcountry
02-22-2018, 11:31 AM
The first step in the right direction is electronic voting. He hates it for a good reason!

No kidding.

I have no idea what he is up to, but if itís anything like 98% of the other **** I have heard him doing, it ainít good.

EMBFlyer
02-22-2018, 11:44 AM
No kidding.

I have no idea what he is up to, but if itís anything like 98% of the other **** I have heard him doing, it ainít good.

He won an election, then sued over electronic voting.

jcountry
02-23-2018, 04:54 PM
He won an election, then sued over electronic voting.

That guy must just be a dream to put up with..... If he behaves this way in full view, I can only imagine what he is like when he thinks no one is watching.

Probably pulls into his driveway each afternoon, climbs over his neighbor’s fence just to kick his dog..... Then goes inside, and I’m sure his fam is charmed.

What a freaking prize.

Cheddar
02-25-2018, 11:21 AM
That guy must just be a dream to put up with..... If he behaves this way in full view, I can only imagine what he is like when he thinks no one is watching.

Probably pulls into his driveway each afternoon, climbs over his neighborís fence just to kick his dog..... Then goes inside, and Iím sure his fam is charmed.

What a freaking prize.



No family, unless you count the Ď........í Whatever floats your boat... dude still needs to go.

Iím with Clint - RB and CK as vice. Texted back and forth with CK, no APA experience but I think Iím okay with that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jcountry
02-25-2018, 03:29 PM
No family, unless you count the Ď........í Whatever floats your boat... dude still needs to go.

Iím with Clint - RB and CK as vice. Texted back and forth with CK, no APA experience but I think Iím okay with that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You mention "no APA experience" as if that is a bad thing....

Cheddar
02-26-2018, 06:31 PM
You mention "no APA experience" as if that is a bad thing....


Haha, not really. It might be good to know how to navigate the BoD parliamentarian rules, but stupider people have figured it out.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TransWorld
02-26-2018, 07:59 PM
It might be good to know how to navigate the BoD parliamentarian rules.

Purchase a copy of Robertís Rules of Order. Read it. Most follow it. Buy it for $12 or less. Money well spent.

Frip
03-01-2018, 07:46 PM
Iím a new hire and I honestly donít fully understand what this means. Iím a commuter; so if I book my commute to get to work and someone senior to me wants to travel D2 for a vacation, they can bump me due to seniority alone?

Again Iím just trying to fully grasp what this means... thanks

The JS is not a commuter seat.

Travel priveleges are for everyone to use, equally, however they want to use them, iaw with the rules in place.

Same dude can reserve the jumpseat before you now - even if his " reason" is that he just wants to go on an airplane ride, or for no reason at all.

A hybrid system is fair enough, and allows those who are not free to call exactly at the opening bell a chance to sign up.

Every argument against that is selfish and specious. Not everyone sets their schedule eight days in advance and never changes it. I don't know many that do.

Al Czervik
03-02-2018, 04:36 AM
Purchase a copy of Robertís Rules of Order. Read it. Most follow it. Buy it for $12 or less. Money well spent.

I wouldnít give our BOD that much credit.

Mover
03-02-2018, 07:41 AM
Every argument against that is selfish and specious. Not everyone sets their schedule eight days in advance and never changes it. I don't know many that do.

Complete nonsense. First come first serve is fair for everyone. Every argument against that is selfish and specious.

272922
03-02-2018, 08:23 AM
I wouldnít give our BOD that much credit.
There's always ALPA......

Rawhide16
03-02-2018, 09:51 AM
The JS is not a commuter seat.

Travel priveleges are for everyone to use, equally, however they want to use them, iaw with the rules in place.

Same dude can reserve the jumpseat before you now - even if his " reason" is that he just wants to go on an airplane ride, or for no reason at all.

A hybrid system is fair enough, and allows those who are not free to call exactly at the opening bell a chance to sign up.

Every argument against that is selfish and specious. Not everyone sets their schedule eight days in advance and never changes it. I don't know many that do.

Funny how you astutely point out that the jumpseat is ďfor everyone to use, equallyĒ and yet you want to replace the current, unbiased system with one that favors some over others by seniority.

Just because youíre not available to call and book the seat before someone else doesnít mean that you should be allowed to take it away from them at your convenience based on your seniority.

And then thereís this gem of a comment...ĒEvery argument against that is selfish and specious.ď How very millennial and snowflakish of you. I read that as ďeveryone that has an opinion different than my own is selfish and should be ignored and ridiculedĒ.

Al Czervik
03-02-2018, 11:52 AM
There's always ALPA......

As bad as it sounds... that would be an improvement.

TallFlyer
03-02-2018, 02:06 PM
As bad as it sounds... that would be an improvement.



Come on in, the water is fine!

Disclaimer: Iím an MEC Officer at a AA wholly owned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Frip
03-02-2018, 03:21 PM
Old, thirty years service, junior and live in base and don't travel much and use the jumpseat even more rarely.

Everyone can't be on the phone at the starting gun. Some are flying, some are watching their kids play ball, or whatever.

A hybrid system allows everyone a reasonable chance at signing up.

There is no "fair".

"Fair" is inevitably defined as "what works for me", by most.

Equal can be defined. Straight FCFS is just "I can get over if I _____"

The arguments in favor of it on these threads illustrate that, and especially illustrate the "specious and selfish" comment, in a classically "pot meet kettle" sense.

Frip
03-02-2018, 03:46 PM
As to the "millennial and snowflakish" comment above, I would posit that those terms most accurately describe those who having made a personal choice to commute and then finding the consequences and costs not to their liking believe that others should give up something that those others have earned in order to more suitably accommodate their own desires, rather than taking responsibility for and either dealing with those consequences or doung something about them.

I can assure you that almost all of the millenials I know are more "adult" in that respect than the vast majority of my own generation, those between, and sadly - most pilots that I know.

R57 relay
03-02-2018, 04:04 PM
Old, thirty years service, junior and live in base and don't travel much and use the jumpseat even more rarely.

Everyone can't be on the phone at the starting gun. Some are flying, some are watching their kids play ball, or whatever.

A hybrid system allows everyone a reasonable chance at signing up.

There is no "fair".

"Fair" is inevitably defined as "what works for me", by most.

Equal can be defined. Straight FCFS is just "I can get over if I _____"

The arguments in favor of it on these threads illustrate that, and especially illustrate the "specious and selfish" comment, in a classically "pot meet kettle" sense.

Many of those reasons are why I hate our pass riding system. My wife is a a F/A and is constantly flying with folks that are setting their clocks to wake up and book their flight home.

I think that most that don't want the system changed don't want the (mostly) guaranteed seat screwed up.

Baradium
03-02-2018, 06:15 PM
As to the "millennial and snowflakish" comment above, I would posit that those terms most accurately describe those who having made a personal choice to commute and then finding the consequences and costs not to their liking believe that others should give up something that those others have earned in order to more suitably accommodate their own desires, rather than taking responsibility for and either dealing with those consequences or doung something about them.

I can assure you that almost all of the millenials I know are more "adult" in that respect than the vast majority of my own generation, those between, and sadly - most pilots that I know.

It's pretty standard in the industry for jumpseats to be FCFS. Delta has a 3 tier system. To Work, From Work, Personal Business. I posit that is much more "fair" than not knowing if you're going to have the jumpseat when you list because someone senior to you might want to go on vacation while you're going to work. The jumpseat is a professional courtesy and not something you "earn" by longevity. '

On top of that, you talk about people not taking responsibility and dealing with consequences... jumpseats have not been seniority based at most airlines for a very long time... seems like you need to learn to deal with the consequences of commuting using a system that has been like that most likely since you started using it. The best part is complaining about people asking others to "give up something" when you are the one demanding they give it up.


A hybrid system does not give everyone a reasonable chance to sign up, it simply gives more senior pilots a better chance of getting it while reducing the chances for junior pilots. It's not an industry standard procedure and acting as if it's an expected entitlement is an interesting take on it.

I think you'd have much better results (and be much happier) if you concentrated on a contractual change to get your normal pass rider system changed to the industry standard of DOH instead of FCFS. It amuses me that you're more worried about the jumpseat than the mess that seems to exist in the nonrev system a AA.

Frip
03-02-2018, 08:35 PM
There is no difference between a pilot who chooses to live in God's Country or wherever for whatever reason and use his travel priveleges to commute to work and one who chooses to live in base and use his travel priveleges to commute to God's Country or wherever he wants to be on his days off, for whatever reason.

I personally will adjust to whatever system is in place, and I won't complain about it. Always have and never have, and would never ever think of asking another pilot to give up his seat in order to accommadate my desires.

I have changed my plans so that others could have the seat I "had" - numerous times, without being asked, and often without them even knowing I did it.

If the cabin was by seniority I would be much more inclined to believe that the JS could "fairly" be FCFS. That is not the case and is extremely unlikely.

Baradium
03-02-2018, 08:53 PM
There is no difference between a pilot who chooses to live in God's Country or wherever for whatever reason and use his travel priveleges to commute to work and one who chooses to live in base and use his travel priveleges to commute to God's Country or wherever he wants to be on his days off, for whatever reason.

I personally will adjust to whatever system is in place, and I won't complain about it. Always have and never have, and would never ever think of asking another pilot to give up his seat in order to accommadate my desires.

I have changed my plans so that others could have the seat I "had" - numerous times, without being asked, and often without them even knowing I did it.

If the cabin was by seniority I would be much more inclined to believe that the JS could "fairly" be FCFS. That is not the case and is extremely unlikely.

You understand that this hybrid proposal is exactly that, right? The entire point is to allow a more senior pilot to force a junior pilot to give up the jumpseat.


As far as cabin vs jumpseat, since AMR made the cabin priority a convoluted mess that isn't done anywhere else in the industry, you want to do the same thing with the jumpseat?

Right now, the jumpseat is the only way you can be comfortable around a week out (from what it sounds like in this thread) about travel or commute plans or know they need to work on other options. A hybrid system changes it to where no one is ever "sure" about it until the changeover point and anyone who is bumped by it has lost time to list for other flights before their own changeover point.


Also, you keep saying seniority, but industry standard for nonrev priority is DOH, not seniority number. It's usually the one benefit guys from merged carriers get if they were integrated with pilots hired much later than them. And all it takes to change the nonrev priority is to make it a contract priority. It's funny to me that you're more adamant about wanting to bump other company pilots off the jumpseat than getting AA pilots on the mainline a/c before WO.

Frip
03-03-2018, 03:57 AM
What you are used to and pretty much industry standard are not the same thing, and every argument you (all...) make can be made in either direction.

AA and some number of other airlines used seniority for decades, so asking for FCFS is "asking them to give something up" so that you can have an essentislly positive space seat.

Your suggestion that I make changing nonrev prioroty DOH a contrqct priority is a flaming straw man. NonRv isn't comtractual, isn't going to be, and that would be far down the list of priorties anyway - and I agree that AA's waay is AFU and it should be by Company Date.

Never said a thung about WO's, but there are also SABRE people and all sorts of others.

How's about y'all make positiv space passes a prioroty? Just make 'em for everyone - not just "commuters."

I get it - it's a sweet deal, and you are used to it. That's fine. I also get other folks' arguments and opinions. A hybrid system will (can, if thr don't screw it up...) work just fine. It'll be OK.

Promise.

Meanwhile, I don't actually care, just don't get to believing that choosing to commute somehow trumps anyone else's travel priveleges, even if all the other person is doing is going to play tiddlywinks with the grandkids. Everyone says "it's for everyone", but all the discussion is about "having" to commute, or commuters "having" to get work.

We all "have to" get to work.

We all choose where to live.

Yes, I understand all of the reasons why, and in some cases would make the same choice, and have in the past.

Mover
03-03-2018, 04:45 AM
If the cabin was by seniority I would be much more inclined to believe that the JS could "fairly" be FCFS. That is not the case and is extremely unlikely.

Right. Because you wouldn't be complaining that a gate agent that's been here since we flew DC-3s and his entire family bumped you in the back. :rolleyes:

Mover
03-03-2018, 04:47 AM
We all choose where to live.

Yes, I understand all of the reasons why, and in some cases would make the same choice, and have in the past.

Until the company starts offering paid moves to new hires, this is nonsense (as with the rest of your posts). You do understand that some people cannot afford to move, right? That the act of moving to a place like New York and finding a place to live is not free?

When do you retire?

Mover
03-03-2018, 04:50 AM
Old, thirty years service, junior and live in base and don't travel much and use the jumpseat even more rarely.

THen why are you even arguing about it? Just looking for the thrill of bumping someone junior off the jumpseat finally?


Everyone can't be on the phone at the starting gun. Some are flying, some are watching their kids play ball, or whatever.


You can't make a simple 1 min phone call while watching your kids play ball? Isn't that a choice?

Frip
03-03-2018, 06:12 AM
Right. Because you wouldn't be complaining that a gate agent that's been here since we flew DC-3s and his entire family bumped you in the back. :rolleyes:

Nope
Never complain - as long as everyone follows the rules
Not even if it was said agent 's college kid flying across the country to see the girlfriend

Frip
03-03-2018, 06:15 AM
Do not personally care what the system is
I do care that everyone is treated equally
Commuting trumps nothing
No I don't care to bump anyone
Yes I did move to New York as a new hire

Mover
03-03-2018, 06:19 AM
Nope
Never complain - as long as everyone follows the rules
Not even if it was said agent 's college kid flying across the country to see the girlfriend

How is the current system not following the rules?

Mover
03-03-2018, 06:19 AM
Do not personally care what the system is
I do care that everyone is treated equally
Commuting trumps nothing
No I don't care to bump anyone
Yes I did move to New York as a new hire

How is Hybrid treating anyone equally more than what we have now? The very definition of seniority proves that to be a lie.

PRS Guitars
03-03-2018, 06:29 AM
Meanwhile, I don't actually care, just don't get to believing that choosing to commute somehow trumps anyone else's travel priveleges, even if all the other person is doing is going to play tiddlywinks with the grandkids. Everyone says "it's for everyone", but all the discussion is about "having" to commute, or commuters "having" to get work.

We all "have to" get to work.

We all choose where to live.

Yes, I understand all of the reasons why, and in some cases would make the same choice, and have in the past.

Frip,

I agree 100% and I am a commuter. I actually commute to 2 jobs right now (which I donít recommend:eek:). I mostly use the seat to commute to AA, but have used it for vacation and occasionally to commute to my Military job.

I chose to commute, wasnít forced to, by anyone. I own it and mentally embrace it, to do otherwise is inviting misery. Itís a simple cost benefit decision matrix. As long as the pros outweigh the cons, Iíll commute.

Frip
03-03-2018, 08:21 AM
How is the current system not following the rules?

And if the rules change, ditto

Frip
03-03-2018, 05:54 PM
"make a simple 1 min phone call while watching your kids play ball? Isn't that a choice?"

Not me...Mine are grown.
Anyone... and whatever
Can't a fellow pilot enjoy life's simple pleasures?
Can't you allow any period of time, an day or hour even, for those who might just be busy doing something else that is important to them to have a shot?

You didn't address they fellow pilot who might be flying, may e halfway across the Pacific with no access.

That's just "too bad" for him/her, as long as you get your (nearly...) positive space comfort seat?

Mover
03-05-2018, 03:56 PM
"make a simple 1 min phone call while watching your kids play ball? Isn't that a choice?"

Not me...Mine are grown.
Anyone... and whatever
Can't a fellow pilot enjoy life's simple pleasures?
Can't you allow any period of time, an day or hour even, for those who might just be busy doing something else that is important to them to have a shot?

You didn't address they fellow pilot who might be flying, may e halfway across the Pacific with no access.

That's just "too bad" for him/her, as long as you get your (nearly...) positive space comfort seat?

I fly international too. I could have the same issue. Thus, it's a fair system for everyone.

EMBFlyer
03-05-2018, 04:12 PM
One of the jumpseat polls is out and confirmed that 80% want the system to stay FCFS as is (with improvements of course).

However, the C&R crowd is saying that really only junior pilots voted, so it's not an accurate poll, so it needs to be changed anyway. And it'll let you guess the average seniority number of the guys saying that.

Christ, when do these guys retire.

Name User
03-05-2018, 05:02 PM
Christ, when do these guys retire.

Hopefully before they do any more damage.

A330FoodCritic
03-05-2018, 08:21 PM
Christ, when do these guys retire.

Not soon enough.

Carlsbad
03-05-2018, 08:26 PM
One of the jumpseat polls is out and confirmed that 80% want the system to stay FCFS as is (with improvements of course).

However, the C&R crowd is saying that really only junior pilots voted, so it's not an accurate poll, so it needs to be changed anyway. And it'll let you guess the average seniority number of the guys saying that.

Christ, when do these guys retire.

They know in just a few years the dynamic will change thanks to all the new hires. That's why they're trying to grab as much as they can. Remember, these are the greedy sleazes that brought the B scale.

Mover
03-06-2018, 03:26 AM
They know in just a few years the dynamic will change thanks to all the new hires. That's why they're trying to grab as much as they can. Remember, these are the greedy sleazes that brought the B scale.

This. The entitlement generation at work.

collegedropout9
03-06-2018, 04:41 AM
I find it interesting that most of the proponents of FCFS are mostly FOís as I am. The big difference to me, doesnít anybody trip trade and move their schedule around. Just last night, traded PVG for HND, then dropped it. Now, I might pick something up for next Monday, OH wait, the Jumpseat is taken already. Every other pilot from another airline has seniority in the cabin or the cockpit. Not AA. Doesnít make sense to me.

Frip
03-06-2018, 05:26 AM
There is no "fair"
"Fair" is in the eye of the beholder
"Fair" is nearly always defined as "what I want" or "what works for me" - especially when dealing with pilots.

I don't use the js and I do not care, personally, about that.

I jumped in this discussin because of multiple comments stating that "non-commuters had nothing to say about this" and/or stating or inferring that commuters should have some special privelege to the jumpseat. That ridiculous notion I emphatically disagree with.

If the cabin were by seniority, JS purely by FCFS would be fine.
I wish it was. If wishes were horses and all that, ya' know?

It is not, and isn't going to be, and IMO there should be a window of opportunity - something longer than a millisecond and shorter than a week - where seniority (Company Date...) counts.

So y'all can call everyone who has an opinion different than your own names, disparage their service and investment in their career, and insist (believe...) that only you are "right", all you want.

A hybrid system is reasonable, and a reasonable compromise. As proposed, everyone would still have plenty of time to make reservations and plan their commute, which is what everyone says they want.

IMO, of course

mainlineAF
03-06-2018, 06:12 AM
Itís funny hearing the senior guys say only the junior guys want first come first serve. News flash: the junior guys will eventually be senior.

Iíll be in the top 15% my last 20 years and i want FCFS. Itís just a better system.

Sliceback
03-06-2018, 07:33 AM
They know in just a few years the dynamic will change thanks to all the new hires. That's why they're trying to grab as much as they can. Remember, these are the greedy sleazes that brought the B scale.

Too funny. Less than 60 A scalers left, and they couldnít vote back then.

What were you doing in 1984?

PRS Guitars
03-06-2018, 08:46 AM
One of the jumpseat polls is out and confirmed that 80% want the system to stay FCFS as is (with improvements of course).

However, the C&R crowd is saying that really only junior pilots voted, so it's not an accurate poll, so it needs to be changed anyway. And it'll let you guess the average seniority number of the guys saying that.

Christ, when do these guys retire.

C&R is a F•Äking cesspool, itís a small group that is very vocal. I admit that I go on there every 6 to 9 months just to see the train wreck. Once theyíve convinced me that I have the worst job in the world and live a miserable existence, I know itís time to quit again for 6 more months.:cool:

TQ Nola
03-06-2018, 10:00 AM
C&R is a F•Äking cesspool, itís a small group that is very vocal. I admit that I go on there every 6 to 9 months just to see the train wreck. Once theyíve convinced me that I have the worst job in the world and live a miserable existence, I know itís time to quit again for 6 more months.:cool:

I have almost 30 guys on 'ignore' and I'm still not quite at the sweet spot yet.

jcountry
03-06-2018, 10:40 AM
Itís funny hearing the senior guys say only the junior guys want first come first serve. News flash: the junior guys will eventually be senior.

Iíll be in the top 15% my last 20 years and i want FCFS. Itís just a better system.

Itís a ď**** everyone but meĒ mentality.

Alive and well from all 3 component pilot groups.

Just look at what one pilot group did to TWA, with a big old smile. And to this day, many will tell you thatís the way it should always work.

There are some real *******s in this industry.

Sliceback
03-06-2018, 11:22 AM
C&R is a F•Äking cesspool, itís a small group that is very vocal. I admit that I go on there every 6 to 9 months just to see the train wreck. Once theyíve convinced me that I have the worst job in the world and live a miserable existence, I know itís time to quit again for 6 more months.:cool:

You guys canít run around waving your flags either. Guys read these threads and wonder if they should even apply or accept the interview offer. Itís come up several times.

Online *****ing is endless, work life is light years better.

Arado 234
03-06-2018, 03:28 PM
Could someone please explain the logic behind the hybrid system?

When it starts e.g. 10 days prior, is it by seniority for the first two days (example), and then FCFS? Or the other way around? Is there a system that can guarantee a pilot's ride to or from work?

On a personal note, I don't recall one person that I have talked to that does not like the current system.

I understand that other pilots don't care (esp. here at AA I noticed the back-stabbing, cut throat mentality), but I would like my employer (and my union) to offer me services in regards to transportation to and from work if I need to use my company's means of getting there without scarifying time at an airport. Big D in ATL has it. Not at AA. Because AA was never a commuting airline. Because AA never did this this way and blablabla.

For those that don't care, I hope your base gets closed or reduced in staffing so you know how it is.

Some senior folks act surprised when they hear that new hires jump ship to start over again in ATL. Wonder why?

And one more question to those senior folks: Could you please explain me what this chest-thumping seniority [email protected] is all about? Does it help your ego? Does it temporary fill a vacuum in your life when you bump somebody? Does it do more than telling me that you are senior on the 777? (like I give a [email protected]). What the F is this all about? Revenge (B scale)? Egocentric issues? Does it levitate your awesomeness to a much higher level?

Frip
03-06-2018, 03:56 PM
I believe that the proposal in The Resolution called for three days of Seniority, and then FCFS. Everyone would still get to plan their commute, and reserve a seat. Some might have to wait until the four day out point to make firm plans. Others would have a bigger window for trading, etc.

It's called a compromise, and everyone still gets what they say is most important - if not quite as much of it.

Vma214
03-06-2018, 04:07 PM
Could you please explain me what this chest-thumping seniority [email protected] is all about? Does it help your ego? Does it temporary fill a vacuum in your life when you bump somebody? Does it do more than telling me that you are senior on the 777? (like I give a [email protected]). What the F is this all about? Revenge (B scale)? Egocentric issues? Does it levitate your awesomeness to a much higher level?

Completely agree with your thinking. In fact, after you’ve been here for 30 years, I think any new-hire with fast fingers on a computer should be able to bid for that 777 CA seat ahead of you and be able to make all that $ while you will obviously have no problem with flying a narrow body domestically. Smfh.

Arado 234
03-06-2018, 04:52 PM
I believe that the proposal in The Resolution called for three days of Seniority, and then FCFS. Everyone would still get to plan their commute, and reserve a seat. Some might have to wait until the four day out point to make firm plans. Others would have a bigger window for trading, etc.

It's called a compromise, and everyone still gets what they say is most important - if not quite as much of it.

That does not make any sense. I thought TW was upset because he couldn't bump a more junior pilot right before departure time. That proposal would still require senior pilots to plan ahead and list.

Arado 234
03-06-2018, 04:55 PM
Completely agree with your thinking. In fact, after youíve been here for 30 years, I think any new-hire with fast fingers on a computer should be able to bid for that 777 CA seat ahead of you and be able to make all that $ while you will obviously have no problem with flying a narrow body domestically. Smfh.

Are you one of those that introduces himself with his seat and equipment, right after replying "hello"?

"I am a Captain on the B767-300!"

Good for you! I just so don't care.

PRS Guitars
03-06-2018, 05:42 PM
You guys canít run around waving your flags either. Guys read these threads and wonder if they should even apply or accept the interview offer. Itís come up several times.

Online *****ing is endless, work life is light years better.

I havenít been overly negative on APC in a while, (if I say so myself). C&R makes APC look like Sesame Street. Youíve been beat up pretty badly on there (yes...I think I have a pretty good idea who you are, would not call you out on APC though). But I think you probably have a better temper than me. At the end of the day, we have to work with these folks, thatís why I stop looking when my blood starts to boil, not worth it.

Battlinbear21
03-07-2018, 04:52 AM
Are you one of those that introduces himself with his seat and equipment, right after replying "hello"?

"I am a Captain on the B767-300!"

Good for you! I just so don't care.

This is how I met my 1st delta captain. Golfing. He was waiting for a short P4 to clear so he cld drive the green. Asked if we wanted to hit. To speed up the game. He said Hi Iím ďjohn retired delta airlines captain.Ē Hi Iím Mike furloughed PDT fo.Ē ďPiedmont?! They are still around?Ē Happy to report he was lying 5 off the tee before he got one in play. Iím sure he wrote down a par after though. Sr = untouchables right?!

EMBFlyer
03-07-2018, 05:35 AM
This is how I met my 1st delta captain. Golfing. He was waiting for a short P4 to clear so he cld drive the green. Asked if we wanted to hit. To speed up the game. He said Hi Iím ďjohn retired delta airlines captain.Ē Hi Iím Mike furloughed PDT fo.Ē ďPiedmont?! They are still around?Ē Happy to report he was lying 5 off the tee before he got one in play. Iím sure he wrote down a par after though. Sr = untouchables right?!

In his defense, to him the more well-known Piedmont was "The Up and Coming Airline" out of the Carolinas. If you would have said Henson/Piedmont, he probably would have understood you.

Thedude
03-07-2018, 02:55 PM
Are you one of those that introduces himself with his seat and equipment, right after replying "hello"?

"I am a Captain on the B767-300!"

Good for you! I just so don't care.

I used to tell guys like that, "So, you fly a light twin, eh".

Battlinbear21
03-08-2018, 05:19 AM
In his defense, to him the more well-known Piedmont was "The Up and Coming Airline" out of the Carolinas. If you would have said Henson/Piedmont, he probably would have understood you.

True. This story would be better suited for TOTD. Who introduces themselves to 4 strangers by saying ďIím so and so retired Delta Airlines Captain?!?Ē We got a great laugh! After we all hit we just asked to play through. Okay, sorry about personal story time.

Mover
03-08-2018, 11:41 AM
Completely agree with your thinking. In fact, after youíve been here for 30 years, I think any new-hire with fast fingers on a computer should be able to bid for that 777 CA seat ahead of you and be able to make all that $ while you will obviously have no problem with flying a narrow body domestically. Smfh.

Isn't that essentially all seniority is? First come, first served?

It's a union job. Don't act like you were promoted due to your airmanship and prowess. You literally only have to not die or get fired for 30 years to bid for that 777 CA seat.

The jumpseat has nothing to do with fast fingers on a computer, btw. Maybe that's why it's so difficult for you?

Pilot X
03-08-2018, 12:09 PM
The jumpseat has nothing to do with fast fingers on a computer, btw. Maybe that's why it's so difficult for you?

I have a pretty fast right arm, does that count?

Mover
03-08-2018, 12:18 PM
I have a pretty fast right arm, does that count?

What you do to yourself on layovers is your own personal business, pal. TMI. :eek:

Arado 234
03-08-2018, 05:47 PM
I have a pretty fast right arm, does that count?

Post of the week! LMAO!

PRS Guitars
04-18-2018, 03:50 PM
From todayís hotline:

ďThe Jumpseat Committee and two American Airlines Flight Department IT managers addressed the board on the status of the hybrid jumpseat reservation system. The company representatives indicated that they have reached a decision point in the development process and requested affirmation that our board remains committed to pursuing a hybrid system. Also, the committee noted that the current system enables pilots to make multiple primary jumpseat reservations for the same day/same city pair, adversely affecting other pilotsí ability to plan their travel, and asked for assistance in discouraging this practice.Ē


So...the question is, did the board give affirmation?

Al Czervik
04-18-2018, 04:36 PM
These guys screw up everything.

Arado 234
04-18-2018, 05:09 PM
From todayís hotline:

ďThe Jumpseat Committee and two American Airlines Flight Department IT managers addressed the board on the status of the hybrid jumpseat reservation system. The company representatives indicated that they have reached a decision point in the development process and requested affirmation that our board remains committed to pursuing a hybrid system. Also, the committee noted that the current system enables pilots to make multiple primary jumpseat reservations for the same day/same city pair, adversely affecting other pilotsí ability to plan their travel, and asked for assistance in discouraging this practice.Ē


So...the question is, did the board give affirmation?

You're kidding! This TW bs still going on? WTF?

PRS Guitars
04-18-2018, 05:36 PM
You're kidding! This TW bs still going on? WTF?

I donít know, it was a pretty cryptic answer IMO, but looks like it to me. The polls all leaned well the other way, but who knows.

A330FoodCritic
04-18-2018, 06:28 PM
These guys screw up everything.

They are very consistent.

EMBFlyer
04-18-2018, 06:40 PM
I donít know, it was a pretty cryptic answer IMO, but looks like it to me. The polls all leaned well the other way, but who knows.

No, they didn't.

PRS Guitars
04-18-2018, 07:04 PM
No, they didn't.

Really, which ones didnít? The ones I saw were for the LUS system.

Al Czervik
04-19-2018, 12:33 AM
No, they didn't.

Every poll I saw favored FCFS.

EMBFlyer
04-19-2018, 04:01 AM
Really, which ones didnít? The ones I saw were for the LUS system.

Every poll I saw favored FCFS.

I was referring to today's comm. I don't believe the Board gave affirmation, only that the company requested it.

PRS Guitars
04-19-2018, 05:07 AM
I was referring to today's comm. I don't believe the Board gave affirmation, only that the company requested it.

I interpreted that as the company asking ďis this the route (hybrid) you want to takeĒ before starting on the IT. My question is how did the BOD answer that.

EMBFlyer
04-19-2018, 04:56 PM
I interpreted that as the company asking ďis this the route (hybrid) you want to takeĒ before starting on the IT. My question is how did the BOD answer that.

The video of the briefing is on the APA website.

Godzilla
04-20-2018, 09:15 PM
The current jumpseat system is not complicated enough for this company.
Even though it is already 4 times more complicated than it was at US Air.
More complexity must be added before AA is satisfied with it.