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View Full Version : Profit sharing in BCSS


seekingblue
02-22-2018, 02:53 PM
Profit sharing is in your BCSS account.

Make sure you select cash/retirement.


Lots of blue juice stuff in the beginning of the email....🤢


Thumbs882
02-22-2018, 02:57 PM
Itís official, Pay Cut.

say again
02-22-2018, 02:58 PM
Lots of blue juice stuff in the beginning of the email....🤢


Beginning, middle, end


aldonite7667
02-22-2018, 03:11 PM
8 yr 320 capt $6k. Not happy.

capt707
02-22-2018, 03:54 PM
That e-mail was a slap in the face!

How is it that not every single pilot is pi$$sed off at this point.... oh right, this is Jb, dumbest pilot group in history! :rolleyes:

Gearswinger
02-22-2018, 04:03 PM
That e-mail was a slap in the face!

How is it that not every single pilot is pi$$sed off at this point.... oh right, this is Jb, dumbest pilot group in history! :rolleyes:

That's a crap attitude. You don't know that every pilot isn't ****ed about this, and if it's not EVERY pilot, it has to be the majority. How about some of that unity that the union keeps talking about, maybe we can improve this dumpster fire if we stop dumping on each other.

Gearswinger
02-22-2018, 04:09 PM
Oh yeah almost forgot,

FUPM

Ted Striker
02-22-2018, 04:49 PM
I just briefly read that company Email and I felt like I was at a time share seminar. You know it's bad when 80% of the Email is just pie charts and graphs explaining how F----- you got.


Embarrassing.

ARL120384
02-22-2018, 04:51 PM
Ooooh look at all the charts and colors. What a friggen joke this place is.

queue
02-22-2018, 05:30 PM
That's a crap attitude. You don't know that every pilot isn't ****ed about this, and if it's not EVERY pilot, it has to be the majority. How about some of that unity that the union keeps talking about, maybe we can improve this dumpster fire if we stop dumping on each other.

https://anonym.to/?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIZPp8Z1vjs

zulu99
02-22-2018, 05:48 PM
My PS was $57.46.

GuardBummer
02-22-2018, 06:08 PM
My PS was $57.46.

Try not to spend it all in one place.

nuball5
02-22-2018, 06:54 PM
My PS was $57.46.

.....before taxes

Bluedriver
02-23-2018, 01:34 AM
That e-mail was a slap in the face!

How is it that not every single pilot is pi$$sed off at this point.... oh right, this is Jb, dumbest pilot group in history! :rolleyes:

You are very negative.

GuppyPuppy
02-23-2018, 04:28 AM
Sad that people fall for the shell game.

This place is like the Titanic heading for the iceberg. And upper management is the inadequate rudder.

GP

Dyrek2
02-23-2018, 05:01 AM
$244....that'll pay my Comcast bill for one month!

aldonite7667
02-23-2018, 05:42 AM
$244....that'll pay my Comcast bill for one month!

If you switch to directv you can save enough to take your wife to dinner.... but no drinks. Those are on you.

PasserOGas
02-23-2018, 06:38 AM
Sad that people fall for the shell game.

This place is like the Titanic heading for the iceberg. And upper management is the inadequate rudder.

GP

And the iceberg...

FU Pay Me

Bozo the pilot
02-23-2018, 06:43 AM
Oh yeah almost forgot,

FUPM

Nice one GS.
NOW will all the juicers/helpers realize how bad this management team is? Lets hear from you all... :rolleyes:
This pilot group is infected with too many jackasses-they live in fear, gullibility and insecurity.
#FUPM

nuball5
02-23-2018, 07:44 AM
Nice one GS.
NOW will all the juicers/helpers realize how bad this management team is? Lets hear from you all... :rolleyes:
This pilot group is infected with too many jackasses-they live in fear, gullibility and insecurity.
#FUPM

I think the notion that this pilot group is just a bunch of juicers ended when 700 marched at LSC last month. You can also include the large rally numbers in JFK and BOS. Every airline has its percentage of company/yes men, it's not just Jetblue. I think as a whole this pilot group has shown a lot of resolve the past few months....the unity I saw on January 31st was amazing. I hope it continues.

The701Express
02-23-2018, 08:13 AM
I think the notion that this pilot group is just a bunch of juicers ended when 700 marched at LSC last month. You can also include the large rally numbers in JFK and BOS. Every airline has its percentage of company/yes men, it's not just Jetblue. I think as a whole this pilot group has shown a lot of resolve the past few months....the unity I saw on January 31st was amazing. I hope it continues.

Very well said.

Even some of the juicers are starting to come around and see the light. I've also seen some names disappearing from the nonmember list.

P-3Bubba
02-23-2018, 08:58 AM
My FO told me heís seeing more than 1 Capt dropping the brake to ďhelp them get the on-timeĒ. Weíre doomed.

-Bubs

RiddleEagle18
02-23-2018, 09:13 AM
My FO told me heís seeing more than 1 Capt dropping the brake to ďhelp them get the on-timeĒ. Weíre doomed.



-Bubs



Flying with captain blue juice right now. Taxi speed 28kts. Flew m81 everywhere to get back on time. Used cell phone for a maint problem.

I find most guys like this have never been through a negotiation before. They just donít understand. Coming from comair I damn sure know what the hell fly SOP means.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

P-3Bubba
02-23-2018, 09:46 AM
I’m feeling a 3 engine taxi coming my way today. I’ll make up for Capt Juicer.

-Bubs

RiddleEagle18
02-23-2018, 10:14 AM
Iím feeling a 3 engine taxi coming my way today. Iíll make up for Capt Juicer.

-Bubs



Please do. He about flipped his **** when we got stuck behind another JB doing about 5 knots. I could feel the frustration. It was the highlight of the trip. We do have guys SAFLEY following SOP, we just need more. Remember we just had a crew go off-roading in BOS just a few weeks ago. Please taxi at a safe speed.




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zulu99
02-23-2018, 10:40 AM
Very well said.

Even some of the juicers are starting to come around and see the light. I've also seen some names disappearing from the nonmember list.

That list is frustrating. Tow the line or don't get the benefit from everyone else and their dues. ****es me off.

full of luv
02-23-2018, 10:50 AM
Please do. He about flipped his **** when we got stuck behind another JB doing about 5 knots. I could feel the frustration. It was the highlight of the trip. We do have guys SAFLEY following SOP, we just need more. Remember we just had a crew go off-roading in BOS just a few weeks ago. Please taxi at a safe speed.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Reminds me of JS'ing once on AA back in the Crandall days when they were having a disagreement w/mgmt about something and we took almost 40 mins to get from the gate to hold short line at DFW.
I remember thinking I could literally get out and walk backwards faster than our 767 was taxiing!

feltf4
02-23-2018, 11:17 AM
$244....that'll pay my Comcast bill for one month!

Do you work here?

You cannot afford that luxury.

Idk how long youíve been here but Iím coming up on a few years and my first PS here was like 770... and I had not even done IOE yet.....

feltf4
02-23-2018, 11:22 AM
Flying with captain blue juice right now. Taxi speed 28kts. Flew m81 everywhere to get back on time. Used cell phone for a maint problem.

I find most guys like this have never been through a negotiation before. They just donít understand. Coming from comair I damn sure know what the hell fly SOP means.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Does said cappy ask you to make sure you start Engine as close to 2 minutes prior to crossing the hold short line for take off?

capt707
02-23-2018, 11:34 AM
My FO told me heís seeing more than 1 Capt dropping the brake to ďhelp them get the on-timeĒ. Weíre doomed.

-Bubs

Happened to me on my trip this week, incl. stand up PAs. :rolleyes:

Fly6785
02-23-2018, 01:54 PM
My profit sharing was virtual...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Blue Dude
02-23-2018, 02:14 PM
My FO told me heís seeing more than 1 Capt dropping the brake to ďhelp them get the on-timeĒ. Weíre doomed.

-Bubs

Advise your FO's to fill out ASAP reports for SOP violations, and to tell their captains that they're doing it. Intentional violations might get tossed from the program and be escalated to FAA violations. It's hardball but there's no excuse for intentional dumb****ery at this stage.

Southerner
02-23-2018, 03:24 PM
That list is frustrating. Tow the line or don't get the benefit from everyone else and their dues. ****es me off.

It's "toe the line"...just sayin.

jtrain609
02-23-2018, 06:09 PM
Advise your FO's to fill out ASAP reports for SOP violations, and to tell their captains that they're doing it. Intentional violations might get tossed from the program and be escalated to FAA violations. It's hardball but there's no excuse for intentional dumb****ery at this stage.

What in the world is wrong with you?

Southerner
02-23-2018, 06:33 PM
What in the world is wrong with you?

They don't understand the implications of what they are saying.

Blue Dude
02-23-2018, 06:39 PM
What in the world is wrong with you?

Nothing at all. I don't put my FO's in the uncomfortable position of being complicit in persistent SOP violations, and FO's shouldn't put up with it from anyone. If captains are still, after repeated specific warnings from both the company and the union, intentionally violating SOP then FO's need to protect themselves. It's the captains who implicate their FO's that are the problem, not the FO's who ultimately document it.

PasserOGas
02-23-2018, 08:26 PM
Nothing at all. I don't put my FO's in the uncomfortable position of being complicit in persistent SOP violations, and FO's shouldn't put up with it from anyone. If captains are still, after repeated specific warnings from both the company and the union, intentionally violating SOP then FO's need to protect themselves. It's the captains who implicate their FO's that are the problem, not the FO's who ultimately document it.

I think Southerner et al think you are advocating a job action, which would be illegal.

In other words, in their minds, advocating following federal law is illegal. America!

hyperboy
02-24-2018, 06:02 AM
Flying with captain blue juice right now. Taxi speed 28kts. Flew m81 everywhere to get back on time. Used cell phone for a maint problem.

I find most guys like this have never been through a negotiation before. They just donít understand. Coming from comair I damn sure know what the hell fly SOP means.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Are you bragging that Comair is gone now...? What is your point and what does it have to do with Comair?

Bluedriver
02-24-2018, 06:13 AM
What in the world is wrong with you?

Do you advocate intentional violation of the company's Standard Operating Procedure?

Southerner
02-24-2018, 06:35 AM
Do you advocate intentional violation of the company's Standard Operating Procedure?

No. He is advocating that using ASAP as a weapon against fellow pilots is stupid.

1. Address it one on one with the guy.
2. Go to professional standards (that's what they are there for)
3. Go to the chief pilot if ALL else fails.

Misusing ASAP is the sort of thing that will cause the demise of the program. Don't let your anger cloud your judgement.

P-3Bubba
02-24-2018, 06:42 AM
Southerner and Riddle have been flying together. They just wonít reveal their super hero identities.

-Bubs

Bluedriver
02-24-2018, 06:58 AM
No. He is advocating that using ASAP as a weapon against fellow pilots is stupid.

1. Address it one on one with the guy.
2. Go to professional standards (that's what they are there for)
3. Go to the chief pilot if ALL else fails.

Misusing ASAP is the sort of thing that will cause the demise of the program. Don't let your anger cloud your judgement.

Agreed. Unless the FO thought he needed protection from the SOP violation. It wasn't intentional for him.

aldonite7667
02-24-2018, 07:00 AM
We have a Professional Standards cadre that deals with this. Donít be stupid or a hero.

Blue Dude
02-24-2018, 07:12 AM
No. He is advocating that using ASAP as a weapon against fellow pilots is stupid.

1. Address it one on one with the guy.
2. Go to professional standards (that's what they are there for)
3. Go to the chief pilot if ALL else fails.

Misusing ASAP is the sort of thing that will cause the demise of the program. Don't let your anger cloud your judgement.

I said to tell the captain first. If the captain insists on violating SOP anyway, intentionally implicating the FO, what position does that leave the FO in? Should he stand up, take himself off the trip, call pro standards? Ok, seems a little over-dramatic but sure. It doesn't seem to fit the usual Pro Standards model, and if you stay on the trip in the meantime, you're tacitly acquiescing to the violations. Hope you're not going to get caught.

I had in mind using ASAP as CYA, not a weapon, but with the knowledge that there is no get-out-of-jail-free card for intentional violations. If you'd rather not ASAP, fill out a FCIR, which protects ASAP but has no possibility of redemption for the captain. If the captain goes ahead in the face of all that, I don't have much pity and hope he dances. Don't forget how selfish and corrupt the captain is being here, daring the FO to overlook violations and implicating him for his own ego at the same time.

Summary: the FO has options other than hoping they don't get caught. Use them.

Southerner
02-24-2018, 07:22 AM
I said to tell the captain first. If the captain insists on violating SOP anyway, intentionally implicating the FO, what position does that leave the FO in? Should he stand up, take himself off the trip, call pro standards? Ok, seems a little over-dramatic but sure. It doesn't seem to fit the usual Pro Standards model, and if you stay on the trip in the meantime, you're tacitly acquiescing to the violations. Hope you're not going to get caught.

I had in mind using ASAP as CYA, not a weapon, but with the knowledge that there is no get-out-of-jail-free card for intentional violations. If you'd rather not ASAP, fill out a FCIR, which protects ASAP but has no possibility of redemption for the captain. If the captain goes ahead in the face of all that, I don't have much pity and hope he dances. Don't forget how selfish and corrupt the captain is being here, daring the FO to overlook violations and implicating him for his own ego at the same time.

Summary: the FO has options other than hoping they don't get caught. Use them.

If the FO follows the three points I made, he will be fine.

Blue Dude
02-24-2018, 07:42 AM
You have more faith in the company than I do.

Bluedriver
02-24-2018, 08:01 AM
You have more faith in the company than I do.

Correction, The Firm.

Southerner
02-24-2018, 08:45 AM
You have more faith in the company than I do.

If the FO addresses things in an appropriate way, he hasn't done anything wrong. Remember, the FOM states that the PIC should be made aware that the SOP is being broken, and if the instruction still stands, the FO is to follow it. Then you talk to the guy after the flight. The FO didn't break the SOP, he followed it. Ergo, nothing to worry about. If he ignores it, and never speaks up to anyone, then yeah he's complicit, and ASAP still isn't the correct venue.

FOM 1.13.1

Bozo the pilot
02-24-2018, 09:49 AM
Correction, The Firm.

I like "The Firm" as the new B6 name. Great piano track in that movie as well.
Lets go with it BD.

Bluedriver
02-24-2018, 11:28 AM
I like "The Firm" as the new B6 name. Great piano track in that movie as well.
Lets go with it BD.

Someone else mentioned it recently, so I can't take credit for it, but it fits so well.

402DRVR
02-24-2018, 05:05 PM
Got a call from an FO on this exact thing lately. Checked with other Union guys and the word is to call pro standards and let them deal with it.

Don't think an FO who does that is going to get busted by the Feds. Worst I've heard so far is the offending captain gets hauled in and the FO is asked to corroborate that this happened.

django
02-24-2018, 11:02 PM
Not to beat down on the proverbial horse but, I did some digging of both ALPA and B6 emails and it was telling.

1) The Executive Team was less than clear as to what that 8% pay increase was offsetting.
It truly read as compensation for the change of 15% to 10% in the PS.
That of course was not what was meant.

2) On a LEC 191 update, the real math was already explained, though it was published after the LOA had passed. Not that it wouldíve made a lick of difference if it would had happened sooner.

Itís evident that at least at the CFO level the E team is not owning up to the employees and clearly stating the strategy .

pilotpayne
02-25-2018, 05:52 AM
Not to beat down on the proverbial horse but, I did some digging of both ALPA and B6 emails and it was telling.

1) The Executive Team was less than clear as to what that 8% pay increase was offsetting.
It truly read as compensation for the change of 15% to 10% in the PS.
That of course was not what was meant.

2) On a LEC 191 update, the real math was already explained, though it was published after the LOA had passed. Not that it wouldíve made a lick of difference if it would had happened sooner.

Itís evident that at least at the CFO level the E team is not owning up to the employees and clearly stating the strategy .

Itís all a shell game with nice graphics.

RiddleEagle18
02-25-2018, 07:18 AM
Remember your profit sharing is your retirement which is also your pay raise which is also your profit sharing.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rickce7
02-25-2018, 07:24 AM
Remember your profit sharing is your retirement which is also your pay raise which is also your profit sharing.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
. . .Exactly this. . .

aldonite7667
02-25-2018, 08:48 AM
Remember your profit sharing is your retirement which is also your pay raise which is also your profit sharing.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Keep quiet or itíll be per diem too.

atrdriver
02-25-2018, 08:56 AM
Keep quiet or itíll be per diem too.

What per diem? We make 15% less domestically and 33% less internationally (and their international is OCONUS, no carve outs for PR etc). Is their rationale that we stay in shtty hotels in shtty locations next to shtty chain restaurants so we don't need much per diem?

We are so far behind in every metric it's pathetic.

hyperboy
02-25-2018, 09:19 AM
What per diem? We make 15% less domestically and 33% less internationally (and their international is OCONUS, no carve outs for PR etc). Is their rationale that we stay in shtty hotels in shtty locations next to shtty chain restaurants so we don't need much per diem?

We are so far behind in every metric it's pathetic.

Looks like there are some hypocrites on this board......

Bilbo T Baggins
02-25-2018, 10:42 AM
I usually ask the guys I fly with for updates on this stuff since I'm relatively new, but he's in the back cleaning. Based on the email this is what I understood- we got the 8% raise and gave up some profit sharing. The 8% is guaranteed additional money, whereas profit sharing amount is not always guaranteed.

This smells like **** to me, so would anybody like to break down the 8% raise/profit sharing cuts? Was it actually a swap/trade like the company makes it sound? Curious

Edit- how do I ask for times from the company, I need to update my resume.

slimothy
02-25-2018, 10:49 AM
I usually ask the guys I fly with for updates on this stuff since I'm relatively new, but he's in the back cleaning. Based on the email this is what I understood- we got the 8% raise and gave up some profit sharing. The 8% is guaranteed additional money, whereas profit sharing amount is not always guaranteed.

This smells like **** to me, so would anybody like to break down the 8% raise/profit sharing cuts? Was it actually a swap/trade like the company makes it sound? Curious

It was such a good deal for the pilot group that the LGB CP went back to the line because he couldnít stomach being associated with management any longer.

PasserOGas
02-25-2018, 07:29 PM
It was such a good deal for the pilot group that the LGB CP went back to the line because he couldnít stomach being associated with management any longer.

He must be one of those hypocrites Hyperboy was self-referring to.

coopervane
02-25-2018, 07:57 PM
He must be one of those hypocrites Hyperboy was self-referring to.

No....he is a really good guy. Heís just tired of the bullshirt.

Bluedriver
02-26-2018, 03:14 AM
What per diem? We make 15% less domestically and 33% less internationally (and their international is OCONUS, no carve outs for PR etc). Is their rationale that we stay in shtty hotels in shtty locations next to shtty chain restaurants so we don't need much per diem?

We are so far behind in every metric it's pathetic.

You are very negative.




















And 100% accurate.

Bluedriver
02-26-2018, 03:17 AM
Looks like there are some hypocrites on this board......

Why can't you just let an honest and accurate negative post just go unanswered?

hyperboy
02-26-2018, 03:53 AM
Why can't you just let an honest and accurate negative post just go unanswered?

You have my number? Call me if you would like to know man up. I can post just like you. If you want the answer let's chat.

pilotpayne
02-26-2018, 05:58 AM
Why can't you just let an honest and accurate negative post just go unanswered?

Note to self drinking a very hot coffee and reading APC can actually be dangerous.

CaptCoolHand
02-26-2018, 06:28 AM
Why can't you just let an honest and accurate negative post just go unanswered?

I got a good laugh here too!

Hello? Pot Meet Kettle!

Why can't you just let an accurate post that's not negative...
go unanswered?

It's more fun to argue, that fact that the sky is blue... No it's dark blue, NO IT's light blue, NO it's skyyyyy blue!

#APCisflightinfo.com

Bluedriver
02-26-2018, 06:49 AM
I got a good laugh here too!

Hello? Pot Meet Kettle!

Why can't you just let an accurate post that's not negative...
go unanswered?

It's more fun to argue, that fact that the sky is blue... No it's dark blue, NO IT's light blue, NO it's skyyyyy blue!

#APCisflightinfo.com

Um, Labor Dispute?

Bluedriver
02-26-2018, 06:49 AM
Note to self drinking a very hot coffee and reading APC can actually be dangerous.

Um, Labor Dispute?

Bluedriver
02-26-2018, 06:50 AM
You have my number? Call me if you would like to know man up. I can post just like you. If you want the answer let's chat.

I'm not call one of The Firm's minions during a Labor Dispute.

pilotpayne
02-26-2018, 07:05 AM
Um, Labor Dispute?

I donít think Peteís coffee is in a labor dispute but next time Iím in there Iíll check to see if they are wearing lanyards.

Bluedriver
02-26-2018, 07:32 AM
I donít think Peteís coffee is in a labor dispute but next time Iím in there Iíll check to see if they are wearing lanyards.

You worry about Pete's baristas. I'm thinking about JB pilots labor dispute with the airline and how we should ALL only be pulling on one end of the rope, with only airline management pulling on the other end of the rope.

Right now some of you guys are still over there pulling on managements end of the rope.

After (if ever) we get a great CBA I'll worry the barista labor dispute.

hyperboy
02-26-2018, 07:35 AM
I'm not call one of The Firm's minions during a Labor Dispute.

Be careful bro on what your accusing people of...Talking about honest posts. I am one of the most honest people you will meet in fact enough that you can all me and find out rather than shoot in the dark.

Word on the street is that when you left for the Bus...E190 CA's are starting to accrue PTO after it was all spent trying to avoid BD...Now that would be dishonest to say? or............:D

Call me seriously instead of accusing me of false information.

Bluedriver
02-26-2018, 07:53 AM
Be careful bro on what your accusing people of...Talking about honest posts. I am one of the most honest people you will meet in fact enough that you can all me and find out rather than shoot in the dark.

Word on the street is that when you left for the Bus...E190 CA's are starting to accrue PTO after it was all spent trying to avoid BD...Now that would be dishonest to say? or............:D

Call me seriously instead of accusing me of false information.

Well, if you know who I am, call me!

To your accusation, majority of guys I used to fly with on the E190 (and guys I fly with now) go out of their way to approach me in the terminal to shoot the breeze. And the guys I fly with usually ask to go down and have a beer on layovers, so, let's just say I'm not worried about my social life....

As to my calling you a company minion, we are in a LABOR DISPUTE. You are either pulling on our end of the rope or managements.

There is a time and a place for defending JBs honor and reputation, and mid-labor-dispute is not the time.

Your incessant need to counter every negative post with snark or sarcasm means you're pulling on the wrong end of the rope. Why? I'm not sure you've ever just answered WHY?

So, pick an end. Tell us which end of the rope you pick, and then we will at least know where you stand.

Yep, you've been to some meetings/rallies and serve on a committee (I think). I don't know if that is because you are that confused about who you are supporting or if it's just to give you some "street-cred" so you can come on here and defend JB and say "hey, but I went to some meetings".

Either way, figure out which end of the rope you are pulling on until this Labor Dispute is over.

PasserOGas
02-26-2018, 08:11 AM
I'm not call one of The Firm's minions during a Labor Dispute.

Exactly. Hyperboy will be a chief pilot at some point. Company man.

Bluedriver
02-26-2018, 08:12 AM
I have NO idea why I'm arguing with a group that couldn't see this Labor Dispute coming with the Hubble Telescope and detailed map.

pilotpayne
02-26-2018, 08:13 AM
You worry about Pete's baristas. I'm thinking about JB pilots labor dispute with the airline and how we should ALL only be pulling on one end of the rope, with only airline management pulling on the other end of the rope.

Right now some of you guys are still over there pulling on managements end of the rope.

After (if ever) we get a great CBA I'll worry the barista labor dispute.

This is rich coming from you.
Good thing there wasnít any coffee left thanks for the lecture on what I can do to help us get a CBA.

Bluedriver
02-26-2018, 08:15 AM
Exactly. Hyperboy will be a chief pilot at some point. Company man.

Yep. No thanks.

I don't dislike Hyper, I just don't trust The Firm.

Bluedriver
02-26-2018, 08:18 AM
This is rich coming from you.
Good thing there wasnít any coffee left thanks for the lecture on what I can do to help us get a CBA.

Yep, you made it to the first picket, I guess you're all don't then. Keep suppressing negative speech, that'll surely make the company give us a market rate CBA!

pilotpayne
02-26-2018, 09:38 AM
Yep, you made it to the first picket, I guess you're all don't then. Keep suppressing negative speech, that'll surely make the company give us a market rate CBA!

Again ironic.

Because you suppress nothing right?

pilotpayne
02-26-2018, 09:39 AM
I have NO idea why I'm arguing with a group that couldn't see this Labor Dispute coming with the Hubble Telescope and detailed map.

Man it would save me from typing.

Bluedriver
02-26-2018, 09:43 AM
Again ironic.

Because you suppress nothing right?

Labor Dispute.

pilotpayne
02-26-2018, 09:46 AM
Labor Dispute.

Cool show up next time and actually be counted.
But I know weekdays are super hard to get off with your seniority.

queue
02-26-2018, 09:51 AM
I have NO idea why I'm arguing with a group that couldn't see this Labor Dispute coming with the Hubble Telescope and detailed map.

Doh... I think I found out why...

Panel Finds Error by Manufacturer of Space Telescope - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/1990/08/10/us/panel-finds-error-by-manufacturer-of-space-telescope.html)

hahahahahaaaaa

https://anonym.to/?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcxoJW34f-I

Bluedriver
02-26-2018, 09:53 AM
Cool show up next time and actually be counted.
But I know weekdays are super hard to get off with your seniority.

Cute. Until then, make sure you suppress negative comments about your JB during a Labor Dispute.

pilotpayne
02-26-2018, 10:05 AM
Cute. Until then, make sure you suppress negative comments about your JB during a Labor Dispute.

Itís not cute itís a fact until then to me and most likely a few others on here you are all TALK.

But I should learn from you because if anyone is an expert at suppressing differing views itís definitely you.

Bluedriver
02-26-2018, 10:13 AM
Itís not cute itís a fact until then to me and most likely a few others on here you are all TALK.

But I should learn from you because if anyone is an expert at suppressing differing views itís definitely you.

Yeah, cause there is only one singular event that definitively shows you are pulling on the pilot's end of the rope. Got it.

And only you and your band of blue APC brothers would make the argument that pushing back against positive and negative speech are the same during a Labor Dispute.

pilotpayne
02-26-2018, 10:30 AM
Yeah, cause there is only one singular event that definitively shows you are pulling on the pilot's end of the rope. Got it.

And only you and your band of blue APC brothers would make the argument that pushing back against positive and negative speech are the same during a Labor Dispute.



Well really what 2 rallyís and the info picketing so like 3 maybe you made it to one of them?
Oh maybe you volunteered to be on a comittiee how about P2P thatís an easy one.....no?


You just have a very very broad definition of positive speech.
Itís pretty much whatever you decide.

Bluedriver
02-26-2018, 10:41 AM
Wow, now we can't even figure out if something is positive or negative.

pilotpayne
02-26-2018, 11:14 AM
Wow, now we can't even figure out if something is positive or negative.

Sure we can itís whatever you deem it to be.

Remember how you argued with coolhand about growth.

Gordie H
02-26-2018, 01:03 PM
Yeah, cause there is only one singular event that definitively shows you are pulling on the pilot's end of the rope. Got it.


No. There have been three important events so far (IMHO) Ė the NY & Boston rallys and the picket.

As I recall, last fall the MEC seemed to make a notably strong pitch to show up to these things and that they were important because they would show the company itís not just a few top union guys demanding a good contract. They said it would show the pilots are unified and I assume (hopefully) provide the negotiating team with some leverage.

BunkerF16
02-26-2018, 03:18 PM
Yeah, cause there is only one singular event that definitively shows you are pulling on the pilot's end of the rope. Got it.

And only you and your band of blue APC brothers would make the argument that pushing back against positive and negative speech are the same during a Labor Dispute.

Joe brings up a good point.....we already know you didn't join 700 of your fellow pilots at the picket.....did you attend either the JFK or BOS rally?

Bluedriver
02-27-2018, 06:55 AM
Sure we can itís whatever you deem it to be.

Remember how you argued with coolhand about growth.

I wasn't really arguing with Cool about growth, it was more about stagnation. Speaking of stagnating careers, did you listen to the Barclays JB presentation?

I was at JFK rally.

pilotpayne
02-27-2018, 07:43 AM
I wasn't really arguing with Cool about growth, it was more about stagnation. Speaking of stagnating careers, did you listen to the Barclays JB presentation?

I was at JFK rally.


Oh my spin it spin it
Yeah he was talking about growth and you were saying it wasnít enough. Growth and stagnation kind of go together itís one or the other.

Yes I did listen to it, what did you get out of it.

Bluedriver
02-27-2018, 08:07 AM
Oh my spin it spin it
Yeah he was talking about growth and you were saying it wasnít enough. Growth and stagnation kind of go together itís one or the other.

Yes I did listen to it, what did you get out of it.

You mean the part when they bragged enthusiastically about slowing growth, year after year, every year a little more, since 2014?

What lever do you think they are gonna pull when our CBA reduces their most important metric, margin, by .5%?

Actually, the discussion started because a few of us said our careers were stagnating/stagnant. Cool said no, we are taking airplanes, so technically we are not stagnating. Well, stagnating, relative to our peers that are either growing faster (some are) or retiring magnitudes more pilots (most are) is what many of us feel like is happening to our progression, relative to our peers. Feeling like your career is stagnating is subjective for sure, unless you are Rain Man and only literal interpretations are allowed. There is, in fact, a way to compile data that shows our growth/retirement progression does not match the growth/retirement progression of most of our peer-set.

You want to lay out the case our growth/retirement progression matches our peers or you wanna be Rain Man and insist on the literal interpretation of a "stagnating" career.

Not directed at you Cool.

pilotpayne
02-27-2018, 08:20 AM
You mean the part when they bragged enthusiastically about slowing growth, year after year, every year a little more, since 2014?

What lever do you think they are gonna pull when our CBA reduces their most important metric, margin, by .5%?

Actually, the discussion started because a few of us said our careers were stagnating/stagnant. Cool said no, we are taking airplanes, so technically we are not stagnating. Well, stagnating, relative to our peers that are either growing faster (some are) or retiring magnitudes more pilots (most are) is what many of us feel like is happening to our progression, relative to our peers. Feeling like your career is stagnating is subjective for sure, unless you are Rain Man and only literal interpretations are allowed. There is, in fact, a way to compile data that shows our growth/retirement progression does not match the growth/retirement progression of most of our peer-set.

You want to lay out the case our growth/retirement progression matches our peers or you wanna be Rain Man and insist on the literal interpretation of a "stagnating" career.

Not directed at you Cool.


A false choice which you are good at. There is a lot of room in the middle of your last paragraph.


And as far as bragging they were talking to investors what would you like them to say? You know investors get uneasy with growth, reference that one United Q call. Their point was they are growing at a reasonable and responsible rate. Not fast enough for you but itís still constant growth.

Bluedriver
02-27-2018, 08:35 AM
A false choice which you are good at. There is a lot of room in the middle of your last paragraph.


And as far as bragging they were talking to investors what would you like them to say? You know investors get uneasy with growth, reference that one United Q call. Their point was they are growing at a reasonable and responsible rate. Not fast enough for you but itís still constant growth.

They were talking to investors, and telling the truth.

You can call it room in the middle, but our growth (slow)/retirements (almost none) are bottom of our peer-set. Call that whatever you want. I'm not Rain Man.

And it's not a constant percentage rate of growth, it's a reducing percentage rate of growth. Just to be clear.

pilotpayne
02-27-2018, 09:13 AM
They were talking to investors, and telling the truth.

You can call it room in the middle, but our growth (slow)/retirements (almost none) are bottom of our peer-set. Call that whatever you want. I'm not Rain Man.

And it's not a constant percentage rate of growth, it's a reducing percentage rate of growth. Just to be clear.


And there is room in the middle but in your world (shocker) itís all or nothing.

Sure the growth has slowed yet it still exists.
Has there been a year since we were hired that we didnít grow?

Bluedriver
02-27-2018, 09:43 AM
And there is room in the middle but in your world (shocker) itís all or nothing.

Sure the growth has slowed yet it still exists.
Has there been a year since we were hired that we didnít grow?

We could take one aircraft delivery a year, and you'd still be delighted. See, growth!

You have control Rain Man.

pilotpayne
02-27-2018, 10:49 AM
We could take one aircraft delivery a year, and you'd still be delighted. See, growth!

You have control Rain Man.

Where did I say delighted?
We could take 20 planes and Hayes could name one the bluedriver truth teller and you would still say itís not enough.

Again both points live in the same world.
We can grow and also grow less than SWA.
What is so hard about that?

We continue to grow itís a fact.

The funny thing about your rain man joke is you are rain man.
You couldnít talk logic to the guy it was his way or nothing. Judge wapner is on judge wapner is on. I doubt rain man left any room for ideas and views other than his. Just like you EVERYONE else is wrong.

Bluedriver
02-27-2018, 12:54 PM
Where did I say delighted?
We could take 20 planes and Hayes could name one the bluedriver truth teller and you would still say itís not enough.

Again both points live in the same world.
We can grow and also grow less than SWA.
What is so hard about that?

We continue to grow itís a fact.

The funny thing about your rain man joke is you are rain man.
You couldnít talk logic to the guy it was his way or nothing. Judge wapner is on judge wapner is on. I doubt rain man left any room for ideas and views other than his. Just like you EVERYONE else is wrong.

Um, no. Lots of Fake News here.

First, I agree with a lot of people. Aldonite, Bozo, CombatCraig, Cool (most of the time), many/most of the guys I fly with and others. Fake News that I only agree with myself.

Second, I will no longer allow you to attribute a point to me that I didn't make. I NEVER said or implied that we were *literally* not growing. That is a straw man and if you continue to suggest I ever took that position I will consider you to have forfeit the discussion.

Third, the position I did take before it was bastardized was that our career progression has stagnated with respect to our peers when you consider net aircraft growth/pilot retirements. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Now I made crystal clear, both implied and EXPLICIT, that stagnated was not meant to be taken as a literal Rain Man interpretation. It is meant to represent how our seniority list progression *compares* to our peers when considering net fleet growth/pilot retirements.

If you insist on taking the literal Rain Man interpretation of "stagnating career", I will once again consider you to have forfeit the discussion.

The list of our peer airlines that have slower seniority progression going forward is extremely small, I'm waffling between 0-2 names on that list. So I'll make this easy for you to actually stay on point, list the airlines that you think have slower seniority list progression right now considering net aircraft growth/pilot retirements and then we can continue to evaluate your counter assertion that relative to our peers we are not stagnating. It's a REALLY short list to consider, so this shouldn't be too hard for you.

Anything beyond that is an attempt by you to deflect from MY point and attribute a sentiment or point to me that I didn't make.

pilotpayne
02-27-2018, 01:28 PM
Um, no. Lots of Fake News here.

First, I agree with a lot of people. Aldonite, Bozo, CombatCraig, Cool (most of the time), many/most of the guys I fly with and others. Fake News that I only agree with myself.

Second, I will no longer allow you to attribute a point to me that I didn't make. I NEVER said or implied that we were *literally* not growing. That is a straw man and if you continue to suggest I ever took that position I will consider you to have forfeit the discussion.

Third, the position I did take before it was bastardized was that our career progression has stagnated with respect to our peers when you consider net aircraft growth/pilot retirements. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Now I made crystal clear, both implied and EXPLICIT, that stagnated was not meant to be taken as a literal Rain Man interpretation. It is meant to represent how our seniority list progression *compares* to our peers when considering net fleet growth/pilot retirements.

If you insist on taking the literal Rain Man interpretation of "stagnating career", I will once again consider you to have forfeit the discussion.

The list of our peer airlines that have slower seniority progression going forward is extremely small, I'm waffling between 0-2 names on that list. So I'll make this easy for you to actually stay on point, list the airlines that you think have slower seniority list progression right now considering net aircraft growth/pilot retirements and then we can continue to evaluate your counter assertion that relative to our peers we are not stagnating. It's a REALLY short list to consider, so this shouldn't be too hard for you.

Anything beyond that is an attempt by you to deflect from MY point and attribute a sentiment or point to me that I didn't make.


That last part was my favorite point

As for the rest of it if I don’t argue on your terms I forfeit how fun.

So now it’s agree with you and argue based on terms and definitions you set. A very good tactic sir.

As for the rest sure you win bluedriver it’s an Internet argument and really has no impact on my life so sure you are right.

And order has once again been restored to apc

django
02-27-2018, 01:39 PM
Children children !
You guys are hilarious.
No wonder this has become such a blue collar gig.

atrdriver
02-27-2018, 02:55 PM
Why don't you guys take that to PMs? I'm not even sure what the point is...... other than JB unarguably sucks right now.

..... I didn't even respond to hyper's bizarre "hypocrite" comment 5 pages ago.

Back to regularly scheduled programming?

hyperboy
02-27-2018, 04:00 PM
Why don't you guys take that to PMs? I'm not even sure what the point is...... other than JB unarguably sucks right now.

..... I didn't even respond to hyper's bizarre "hypocrite" comment 5 pages ago.

Back to regularly scheduled programming?


It's cool FLICA had you busy.

atrdriver
02-27-2018, 05:00 PM
It's cool FLICA had you busy.

I don't even have alerts brah. Interviews didn't have me busy either. And your last post made no sense at all.

The point of my last post was stupid little b!tchfests take away from real discussion of how bad things are here and how far behind we are. But you just couldn't help yourself.

pilotpayne
02-27-2018, 05:07 PM
Children children !
You guys are hilarious.
No wonder this has become such a blue collar gig.

We wear uniforms
We operate under a cba
We operate based on a seniority list
Our flying skills do not transfer
There is no standard degree which every pilot MUST have
We have a union
We operate heavy machinery
Our promotions are based on only seniority not merit
We deal with management

We might already be more blue collar than you think.

But if itís stupid name calling and dumb arguments you speak of (guilty here) than congress is also blue collar:)

Bluedriver
02-28-2018, 07:19 AM
That last part was my favorite point

As for the rest of it if I donít argue on your terms I forfeit how fun.

So now itís agree with you and argue based on terms and definitions you set. A very good tactic sir.

As for the rest sure you win bluedriver itís an Internet argument and really has no impact on my life so sure you are right.

And order has once again been restored to apc

Not so fast.

When *I* make a statement, that statement includes *my* intentions and true meaning. And I made the full context of that statement clear from the beginning.

So, you (or anyone else) cannot attribute to me a different meaning or point from what I explicitly put forth, and then tell me I'm wrong. So yes, before you continue to tell me I'm wrong, I get to remind you of what it is I actually said, and explicitly said I meant by it.

At best, you can tell me I mis-used a term, but you can't tell me I meant something different than I explicitly told you I meant.

So I'll take your choice to not list the 0-2 U.S. major airlines that you believe have worse forward seniority list progression than JB based on net aircraft growth/pilot retirements as you agreeing with me that we do in fact have at or near worst pilot seniority list progression going forward.

Thanks for bringing this whole debate back up again.

pilotpayne
03-01-2018, 05:45 AM
Not so fast.

When *I* make a statement, that statement includes *my* intentions and true meaning. And I made the full context of that statement clear from the beginning.

So, you (or anyone else) cannot attribute to me a different meaning or point from what I explicitly put forth, and then tell me I'm wrong. So yes, before you continue to tell me I'm wrong, I get to remind you of what it is I actually said, and explicitly said I meant by it.

At best, you can tell me I mis-used a term, but you can't tell me I meant something different than I explicitly told you I meant.

So I'll take your choice to not list the 0-2 U.S. major airlines that you believe have worse forward seniority list progression than JB based on net aircraft growth/pilot retirements as you agreeing with me that we do in fact have at or near worst pilot seniority list progression going forward.

Thanks for bringing this whole debate back up again.

I don’t understand the last sentence but,
Le sigh bluedriver Le sigh
You win you win, but you already knew that.

Bluedriver
03-01-2018, 05:58 AM
I donít understand the last sentence...

This is what I meant.

Sure we can itís whatever you deem it to be.

Remember how you argued with coolhand about growth.

Bozo the pilot
03-01-2018, 09:02 AM
Children children !
You guys are hilarious.
No wonder this has become such a blue collar gig.

:rolleyes:thank God youre here. :D

likeitis
03-01-2018, 09:19 AM
Children children !
You guys are hilarious.
No wonder this has become such a blue collar gig.

It has since day one and will continue to be forever. I love talking to guys who get their panties in a bunch when I remind them we are blue collar workers.

WhiteHammer
03-01-2018, 10:16 AM
Do you guys remember when Hyperboy showed up on bluepilots? Lasted about 2 weeks, then disappeared. He tried doing his pro company post over there and got booed off stage and sent home crying. Just like our other blue juicers, he will justify that he supports the union, meanwhile goes out of his way to help the company.

queue
03-01-2018, 10:49 AM
It has since day one and will continue to be forever. I love talking to guys who get their panties in a bunch when I remind them we are blue collar workers.

Blue collar workers are awesome. They do honest work. They made America. Can't say that about most office jockeys.

Crane Operators Top $500,000 in Pay, Benefits (https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303936704576399563008284024)

https://daddycatchersrealm.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/mike-rowe-dirty-jobs.jpg?w=450

aldonite7667
03-01-2018, 11:31 AM
Blue collar workers are awesome. They do honest work. They made America. [SIZE=3][SIZE=2]Can't say that about most office jockeys.

By their definition, a surgeon is blue collar.

say again
03-01-2018, 11:43 AM
I wear a clown collar to work.

hyperboy
03-01-2018, 06:43 PM
Do you guys remember when Hyperboy showed up on bluepilots? Lasted about 2 weeks, then disappeared. He tried doing his pro company post over there and got booed off stage and sent home crying. Just like our other blue juicers, he will justify that he supports the union, meanwhile goes out of his way to help the company.


You have issues. I have NEVER been on Blue Pilots ever! Making a bunch of stuff up and you have no idea what your talking about. Your accusing me of alot fake stuff. I will PM you and find out if you can man up after calling me out over false narrative.

Final Clear
03-02-2018, 03:47 AM
You have issues. I have NEVER been on Blue Pilots ever! Making a bunch of stuff up and you have no idea what your talking about. Your accusing me of alot fake stuff. I will PM you and find out if you can man up after calling me out over false narrative.

... Bandwagon is that you?

FC

rvr1800
03-02-2018, 04:16 AM
... Bandwagon is that you?

FC

Nope two different people. I also thought ďHyperChildĒ on BP was Hyperboy. Guess not.

CaptCoolHand
03-02-2018, 11:14 AM
You have issues. I have NEVER been on Blue Pilots ever! Making a bunch of stuff up and you have no idea what your talking about. Your accusing me of alot fake stuff. I will PM you and find out if you can man up after calling me out over false narrative.

Werenít you hyperchild over there?

hyperboy
03-02-2018, 11:31 AM
Werenít you hyperchild over there?

Never signed up over there at BP ever.
If someone is trying to impersonate me over there that is sad. I would not know what's going on over there because I dont have an account.

What is being said?


A sad individual....

rvr1800
03-02-2018, 11:45 AM
Werenít you hyperchild over there?

Thereís a guy on there who changed his name to ďCSeriesĒ. He was at some point ďHyperChildĒ.

Yup too much time on my hands. Noríeaster.

CaptCoolHand
03-02-2018, 01:02 PM
Thereís a guy on there who changed his name to ďCSeriesĒ. He was at some point ďHyperChildĒ.

Yup too much time on my hands. Noríeaster.

LMAO! right! find beer... or chicks or something:D

CaptCoolHand
03-02-2018, 01:03 PM
Never signed up over there at BP ever.
If someone is trying to impersonate me over there that is sad. I would not know what's going on over there because I dont have an account.

What is being said?


A sad individual....

right on. they did a good impersonation of you.;) I don't recall anything ridiculous.

Xtreme87
03-02-2018, 01:14 PM
right on. they did a good impersonation of you.;) I don't recall anything ridiculous.

This is why Iím a firm believer in mental health screening for pilots.

Bluedriver
03-03-2018, 06:51 AM
Never signed up over there at BP ever.
If someone is trying to impersonate me over there that is sad. I would not know what's going on over there because I dont have an account.

What is being said?


A sad individual....

I think you would understand this company better if you at least were open to more information. No reason not to read BP. I will be the first to admit it is 80% BS. But... 20% good info and a perspective that you don't get here.

Unless you'd just rather not know, or it doesn't fit your agenda somehow.