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View Full Version : Wet Sock Smell


tom11011
02-25-2018, 06:23 AM
Does anyone have any official document from Airbus or from your airline on the Airbus wet sock smell dangers they can share? Does anything exist?


Flydaplane
02-25-2018, 06:33 AM
Dirty socks or wet dog smell in the plane? It's toxic, say airline workers, World News & Top Stories - The Straits Times (http://www.straitstimes.com/world/dirty-socks-or-wet-dog-smell-in-the-plane-its-toxic-say-airline-workers)

https://aviationtravelwriter.wordpress.com/2016/10/27/new-airbus-cabin-air-filters-flawed-ineffective-design-for-toxins/

Accident: US Airways B762 near St. Thomas on Jan 16th 2010, odour on board, both flight crew received permanent injuries, captain later died (http://avherald.com/h?article=425f6a41)

skater3260
02-25-2018, 07:04 AM
Havenít seen anything official other than following the Smoke/Fumes/Avionics Smoke procedure in the QRH. I ďheardĒ Spirit developed a procedure for the wet sock smell from a jumpseater a while back, for what itís worth.
If you look up ďTricresyl PhosphateĒ or ďAerotoxic SyndromeĒ you can find more info on the subject.


galaxy flyer
02-25-2018, 07:39 AM
Old Boeing engineers just warmed up the duct temp to dry out the separator.

GF

hilltopflyer
02-25-2018, 08:02 AM
B6 did something about it. Big hoopla about it all.

jcountry
02-25-2018, 09:54 AM
Itís not wet socks.

Itís a neurotoxin from engine oil getting past the bearings and into the bleed air.

I think manufacturers are trying to come up with detection/mitigation systems. They need to. No telling how many crews have been messed up.

The shame of it is, something should have been done years ago. Boeing and Airbus and engine manufacturers have known about this for decades-and continued to stick with the ďwet sockĒ BS

Iceberg
02-25-2018, 02:34 PM
Iíve been looking, I think ALPA had issued some information with regards to the issue and tracking it. I havenít found it yet, and Iím also not sure if it was an Endeavor ALPA publication or national.

Rabid Seagull
02-25-2018, 02:36 PM
Itís not wet socks.


Wait. So you're saying that the mechanic didn't leave his socks in the air duct?:rolleyes:

Knobcrk1
02-25-2018, 05:01 PM
I was in the back of a UA 320 and around 10k feet descending there was this horrible smell almost like burning plastic but it only lasted a few seconds. I wonder if this was it.

RhinoBallAuto
02-25-2018, 06:02 PM
Itís not wet socks.

Itís a neurotoxin from engine oil getting past the bearings and into the bleed air.

I think manufacturers are trying to come up with detection/mitigation systems. They need to. No telling how many crews have been messed up.

The shame of it is, something should have been done years ago. Boeing and Airbus and engine manufacturers have known about this for decades-and continued to stick with the ďwet sockĒ BS

Do you have any external reference to point to on this for more information? I find this very intriguing. Happy for PMs if youíd prefer.

lowandslow
02-25-2018, 06:32 PM
Yes Spirit has been very aggressive with this. We have a union volunteer who experienced a very bad one a few years ago and has made this his mission. He has done an extraordinary job of educating not only our group but is working with many other groups as well.
Look up Dr. Clement Furlong.

Qotsaautopilot
02-25-2018, 09:21 PM
If you are at the gate get off the plane. If you are on the ground open your window. If you are in Flight don your O2 mask. This stuff is terrible for your brain.

skater3260
02-26-2018, 05:46 AM
Do you have any external reference to point to on this for more information? I find this very intriguing. Happy for PMs if youíd prefer.

Take some time and look up ďTricresyl PhosphateĒ and ďaerotoxic syndromeĒ.

Goobacca
02-26-2018, 10:32 AM
So if you get a jet that has this issue refuse it.

gipple
02-26-2018, 11:18 AM
This law firm is leading the movement for education and prevention.
Pyrolized oil is a definite work hazard for all flight crew.

Michaelis Aviation Consulting (http://www.susanmichaelis.com/index.html)

tom11011
02-26-2018, 03:55 PM
Thanks everyone for the responses. If I read everything correctly here, it sounds like there is no official document or guidance from Airbus, any airline, or ALPA correct?

SuperDuty
02-26-2018, 04:21 PM
Yes Spirit has been very aggressive with this. We have a union volunteer who experienced a very bad one a few years ago and has made this his mission. He has done an extraordinary job of educating not only our group but is working with many other groups as well.
Look up Dr. Clement Furlong.

EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH THIS!

https://www.alliedpilots.org/Committees/Aeromedical/Contaminated-Cabin-Air

SuperDuty
02-26-2018, 04:28 PM
Thanks everyone for the responses. If I read everything correctly here, it sounds like there is no official document or guidance from Airbus, any airline, or ALPA correct?

As far as I can find in my research, you are correct. With the exception of Spirit who has implemented an official procedure. These event are actually very common, but we don't hear about them very often because they are underreported. I think many crews simply don't think much of the smell; especially if it is short lived. Occasionally someone gets hurt. I wouldn't be overly concerned, except bran damage is permanent. Guys have lost medicals and even died.

I think airlines and manufactures have mostly brushed this issue under the rug. It's bad press. Watch the video I posted in the post above. It's Eric Tillman of Spirit giving a presentation to APA. It's loaded with tons of good info. I'll link again below.

https://www.alliedpilots.org/Committees/Aeromedical/Contaminated-Cabin-Air

lowandslow
02-26-2018, 04:43 PM
As far as I can find in my research, you are correct. With the exception of Spirit who has implemented an official procedure. These event are actually very common, but we don't hear about them very often because they are underreported. I think many crews simply don't think much of the smell; especially if it is short lived. Occasionally someone gets hurt. I wouldn't be overly concerned, except bran damage is permanent. Guys have lost medicals and even died.

I think airlines and manufactures have mostly brushed this issue under the rug. It's bad press. Watch the video I posted in the post above. It's Eric Tillman of Spirit giving a presentation to APA. It's loaded with tons of good info. I'll link again below.

https://www.alliedpilots.org/Committees/Aeromedical/Contaminated-Cabin-Air

Good info but may have autocorrected on you. His last name is Tellmann.

FMGEC
02-26-2018, 04:47 PM
I commonly sense, what best I can describe as a ďsolventĒ smell, while descending into a humid destination. Is this what we are talking about?

tom11011
02-26-2018, 04:51 PM
I made a post over in Spiritís forum asking for comment here.

ForTheWin
02-26-2018, 09:53 PM
I was in the back of a UA 320 and around 10k feet descending there was this horrible smell almost like burning plastic but it only lasted a few seconds. I wonder if this was it.

Yes, it's certainly possible (even probable?). "Fume Events" most often occur when the HP valve opens and they only last for a few seconds. A leaky APU or engine seal allows oil to collect in the bleed ducts. Then when the HP valve opens, that oil is pyrolyzed in the conditioned air ducting and the resultant "wet sock" smell is blasted into the cabin/cockpit depending on bleed system architecture. That "wet sock" smell is actually quite harmful. You may want to consider going to the hospital following an event like that. You should be checked for carbon monoxide exposure as soon as possible. Some of the symptoms of exposure are headaches, blurred vision, impaired cognition, etc...

As far as I can find in my research, you are correct. With the exception of Spirit who has implemented an official procedure. These event are actually very common, but we don't hear about them very often because they are underreported. I think many crews simply don't think much of the smell; especially if it is short lived. Occasionally someone gets hurt. I wouldn't be overly concerned, except bran damage is permanent. Guys have lost medicals and even died.

I think airlines and manufactures have mostly brushed this issue under the rug. It's bad press. Watch the video I posted in the post above. It's Eric Tillman of Spirit giving a presentation to APA. It's loaded with tons of good info. I'll link again below.

https://www.alliedpilots.org/Committees/Aeromedical/Contaminated-Cabin-Air

Definitely watch the video; Eric Tellmann is well versed on the subject. Also, airlines and engine manufacturers are quick to discredit the real dangers due to their liability. Imagine the class action lawsuits coming their direction as this subject continues to gain traction? These companies have known for a very long time of the dangers their systems present to the airline crews and traveling public...it doesn't bode well for their collective futures.
As far as I know, the only airliner that isn't susceptible to fume events is the 787 due to it's pressurization/ air conditioning design (not part of the engine bleed air system).

Ed Force One
02-27-2018, 02:34 PM
AeroToxic Association | Supporting those affected by Aerotoxic Syndrome ? The Aerotoxic Association was founded in 2007 by Captain John Hoyte (http://www.aerotoxic.org/)

Looks like the site has been re-worked. They used to have a "What your doctor needs to know" link. I'd have to dig around on the new site, but this is something you must bookmark, IMO.

tom11011
02-27-2018, 07:43 PM
From Spirit forum.

https://www.alliedpilots.org/Committees/Aeromedical/Contaminated-Cabin-Air

trent890
02-28-2018, 12:01 AM
Thanks everyone for the responses. If I read everything correctly here, it sounds like there is no official document or guidance from Airbus, any airline, or ALPA correct?

EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH THIS!

https://www.alliedpilots.org/Committees/Aeromedical/Contaminated-Cabin-Air

From 10:21 until 11:15 into the video presentation, there is discussion of an Airbus document that acknowledges engine oil will leak into the aircraft bleed air system and cause a musty smell. The end of the video has a listing of the References Cited for this Presentation, and the Airbus document information is repeated there as well. The In Service Information (ISI) reference that exists for the narrow body Airbus fleet relating to this issue is:

ISI Ref: 21.00.00018
A/C Type: A318 A319 A320 A321
Topic:
First Issue Date: 07-NOV-2013
Part Number:
Last Publication Date: 08-NOV-2013

BFMthisA10
02-28-2018, 02:17 AM
Sounds similar to issues the Air Force and Navy/Marines have been having in their tactical and training jets since they ditched LOX for OBOGS based O2 delivery.

aiir
02-28-2018, 05:40 AM
I can see the crazy lawsuits that would ensue, and the major risk to the profession if word of this gets out, resulting in decreased air travel, but airplane manufacturers really need to get on the ball and start designing their systems to prevent this from happening. I hope that Boeingís new 797 is similar to the 787 in this respect, as it would be good to start phasing out those antiquated bleed systems, especially with the clean sheet designs (there is no excuse, putting those obviously faulty systems in new designs). I feel that Airbus is falling behind on this one and Iím not sure about Bombardiersí system on the C Series but I for one, as a pilot and passenger would elect to fly on planes less likely to poison my brain, seat width be damned...

flensr
02-28-2018, 06:30 AM
I don't think it's the same issue as the military problem with OBOGS/MSOGS. I have 1000+ hours in OBOGS/MSOGS aircraft without a single incident, and then there was a huge increase after I quit flying those. So I think the military had *something* change in the system that is causing the problem, and they just can't figure out why the system goes from being just fine to being really bad across multiple fleets. My personal bet is that a supplier (or multiple suppliers) changed and there are parts in use that makes it not work right anymore even though they technically test OK on the bench. But that's just my guess.

qball
02-28-2018, 03:47 PM
I always thought it was CQ making me wacky.

badflaps
02-28-2018, 04:39 PM
In the 880's when they wacked the turbo's and went to ram air, they called it "Perfumed Esther."

queue
02-28-2018, 04:54 PM
B6 did something about it. Big hoopla about it all.

B6 has made an effort to convince everyone that the issue is not existent. They provided research minimizing the effects of routine TCP exposure.

Qotsaautopilot
03-01-2018, 05:12 AM
B6 has made an effort to convince everyone that the issue is not existent. They provided research minimizing the effects of routine TCP exposure.

Spirit tried to deny it as well. The crew that Eric was a part of pushed very hard to bring the issue to light while the company tried to suppress them. It became too much and Spirit finally acknowledged that these events do happen. They developed a procedure, a fume event reporting form, and supposedly replaced all the cabin air filters on the entire fleet to a much better more expensive filter. Not sure who can verify that work has actually been done but thatís what they told us. I would bet we probably report more fume events per year than any other airline now.

webecheck
03-01-2018, 06:21 PM
I wouldn't be overly concerned, except bran damage is permanent.

The reality is pilots probably do far more harm to their brains from alcohol consumption, and to some extent problems with women. :D

Would be hard to sit at a bar on an overnight and with a straight face complain to each other about how that smell may cause some health issues when older, as you pound that 9% Belgian. Iím not saying the risk isnít there, but if youíre going to make a stink about it, wouldnít you need to be the guy who doesnít drink, exercises, isnít 40lbs overweight, etc?

GrumpyCaptain
03-01-2018, 07:59 PM
Difference is your liver can heal itself but your brain not so much.

Exposure to some of these chemicals causes brain damage similar to nfl players and concussions. Think about the secretly quiet, yet high suicide rate between the 2 professions.

jcountry
03-02-2018, 05:09 AM
I commonly sense, what best I can describe as a ďsolventĒ smell, while descending into a humid destination. Is this what we are talking about?

Nope.

Doesnít smell like that to me.

Smells just like a wet sock.

Iíve never had a reaction. Maybe it wasnít long enough, maybe it wasnít the same kind of oil. Could have been a kind of pack oil, I guess.

Iím just mad that maintenance used to lie to us and say it was some kind of water separators getting moldy. Itís not that

jcountry
03-02-2018, 05:11 AM
I commonly sense, what best I can describe as a ďsolventĒ smell, while descending into a humid destination. Is this what we are talking about?

Nope.

Doesnít smell like that to me.

Smells just like a wet sock.

Iíve never had a reaction. Maybe it wasnít long enough, maybe it wasnít the same kind of oil. Could have been a kind of pack oil, I guess.

Iím just mad that maintenance used to lie to us and say it was some kind of water separators getting moldy. Itís not that.

My current airline actually has very good procedures for dealing with any strange smells. My former airline most definitely brushed these events under the rug, and put us all in danger. I know several guys from there who had medical issues and are likely to never get their Medicals back

AFPirate
03-02-2018, 02:03 PM
Not discounting any of the valid concerns against aerotoxic fume events... I recall C17 flying in the sandbox and we'd often experience this smell. Maintenance would change out the coalescer bag and the smell would go away...any other 17 drivers remember dealing with this during humid summer flying?

flensr
03-02-2018, 10:19 PM
Not discounting any of the valid concerns against aerotoxic fume events... I recall C17 flying in the sandbox and we'd often experience this smell. Maintenance would change out the coalescer bag and the smell would go away...any other 17 drivers remember dealing with this during humid summer flying?

I didn't fly the C-17 but I flew other mil aircraft and all of them had wet-sock smell blamed on water separators. To my recollection, it was always worse in humid environmental conditions.

My last couple trips in the 'bus, I could smell a difference when we flew through thick clouds. Really felt an increase in humidity and a slightly "off" smell, associated directly with flying through dense clouds and light rain. Nope, I didn't file a report for stinky wet humid smell when we flew through rain, because I think we're seeing 2 separate issues here. Sometimes it stinks because the packs are ingesting oil, sometimes it stinks because the air coming through is just super humid and stinky. Separate causes, separate issues, one toxic and one merely unpleasant, but they both smell just about the same. That's just my opinion from 22 yrs flying jets, can't prove it, but I do think there's more than one cause for the wet sock smell and that just makes it very hard to pin it down.

Sliceback
03-03-2018, 08:08 AM
Wet sock smell was common on the 727. A couple of writeups per year. Havenít had one in decades since newer aircraft technology came on on line.

tom11011
03-04-2018, 01:04 PM
Spirit tried to deny it as well. The crew that Eric was a part of pushed very hard to bring the issue to light while the company tried to suppress them. It became too much and Spirit finally acknowledged that these events do happen. They developed a procedure, a fume event reporting form, and supposedly replaced all the cabin air filters on the entire fleet to a much better more expensive filter. Not sure who can verify that work has actually been done but thatís what they told us. I would bet we probably report more fume events per year than any other airline now.

Can you supply a picture of their fume event reporting form?

qball
03-04-2018, 04:11 PM
Wet sock smell was common on the 727. A couple of writeups per year. Havenít had one in decades since newer aircraft technology came on on line.

The 727 had that on every descent. Had the exact same smell on the AB but not a common occurance.

WHACKMASTER
03-05-2018, 05:02 AM
The reality is pilots probably do far more harm to their brains from alcohol consumption, and to some extent problems with women. :D

Would be hard to sit at a bar on an overnight and with a straight face complain to each other about how that smell may cause some health issues when older, as you pound that 9% Belgian. Iím not saying the risk isnít there, but if youíre going to make a stink about it, wouldnít you need to be the guy who doesnít drink, exercises, isnít 40lbs overweight, etc?

You canít possible be serious. What an ignorant post.

jcountry
03-06-2018, 10:43 AM
Can you supply a picture of their fume event reporting form?

Not in million years.

You are trying to get someone fired?

flybywp
03-06-2018, 10:58 AM
The reality is pilots probably do far more harm to their brains from alcohol consumption, and to some extent problems with women. :D

Would be hard to sit at a bar on an overnight and with a straight face complain to each other about how that smell may cause some health issues when older, as you pound that 9% Belgian. I’m not saying the risk isn’t there, but if you’re going to make a stink about it, wouldn’t you need to be the guy who doesn’t drink, exercises, isn’t 40lbs overweight, etc?

The difference is that inhaling these chemicals will kill you much faster than moderately drinking, being 40 lbs overweight, not exercising, etc. We're talking a ratio of days to decades here. The neurotoxicity of organophosphates is way higher than any alcohol consumption. Sounds to me like you need to do some research.

JamesNoBrakes
03-07-2018, 05:07 AM
I’ve been looking, I think ALPA had issued some information with regards to the issue and tracking it. I haven’t found it yet, and I’m also not sure if it was an Endeavor ALPA publication or national.

Why doesn't ALPA hire industrial hygienists to take measurements or supply test equipment? IH specialists do this for a living and the field is extremely advanced these days. This stuff is the size of a handheld radio and easy to operate these days. If this is a real thing or people are convinced it is, I would think this would be the first thing they'd be asking the union to do?

queue
03-07-2018, 10:20 AM
Why doesn't ALPA hire industrial hygienists to take measurements or supply test equipment? IH specialists do this for a living and the field is extremely advanced these days. This stuff is the size of a handheld radio and easy to operate these days. If this is a real thing or people are convinced it is, I would think this would be the first thing they'd be asking the union to do?

Measuring this type of contamination has been difficult until recently. There is a research doctor in Canada who mentioned that a new testing method now exists which is cheap and easy to install. Think of it like a fly trap. You carry it around and then a chemical analysis is done on what sticks to it.

The alternative is super expensive cabin air monitoring equipment installed by the company. The big problem is the company can always hide the results or provide processed information.

Whatever the solution, pilots need a solution they can carry around, like a personal radiation dosimeter.

tom11011
03-13-2018, 02:50 PM
Not in million years.

You are trying to get someone fired?

What the hell are you talking about?

SpeedyVagabond
03-17-2018, 05:15 PM
What the hell are you talking about?

Well, what Gus is saying is that releasing confidential company material on the internet and leaving a digital footprint isnít wise.

HIFLYR
03-17-2018, 06:02 PM
Why doesn't ALPA hire industrial hygienists to take measurements or supply test equipment? IH specialists do this for a living and the field is extremely advanced these days. This stuff is the size of a handheld radio and easy to operate these days. If this is a real thing or people are convinced it is, I would think this would be the first thing they'd be asking the union to do?

The carrier would have to approve any testing during aircraft operation and I am sure they would be all for it.:rolleyes:

queue
03-18-2018, 02:54 PM
You canít possible be serious. What an ignorant post.

The idea is to lower the overall probabilities. Individually all of these threats are comparatively small but combined the risk of health effects and even death is high. That is why we must do everything possible to attack every issue ferociously, regardless of how small we perceive each one to be.


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

WHACKMASTER
03-18-2018, 10:34 PM
The idea is to lower the overall probabilities. Individually all of these threats are comparatively small but combined the risk of health effects and even death is high. That is why we must do everything possible to attack every issue ferociously, regardless of how small we perceive each one to be.


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

The guy was insinuating that we shouldnít worry about the implications of toxic fumes because we do more damage to our bodies with our diet, drinking, circadian rhythm disruptions, etc.

Thatís absurd. Of course adding all of those factors together compounds to have a negative effect on our health, but this thread is about a workplace hazard that if youíre exposed to just once it can ****** you up for life.

Letís stay focused on the topic at hand for crying out loud. This should be a very serious concern to all of us unless youíre on the B787.

webecheck
03-19-2018, 09:55 AM
The guy was insinuating that we shouldnít worry about the implications of toxic fumes because we do more damage to our bodies with our diet, drinking, circadian rhythm disruptions, etc.

Thatís absurd. Of course adding all of those factors together compounds to have a negative effect on our health, but this thread is about a workplace hazard that if youíre exposed to just once it can ****** you up for life.

Letís stay focused on the topic at hand for crying out loud. This should be a very serious concern to all of us unless youíre on the B787.

I wasn't insinuating one shouldn't worry. You jumped to that conclusion because of your argumentative and hostile internet warrior personality.

You still go to work everyday and haven't changed careers so you clearly don't think it's that big of a deal.

The intent of my post was that there are a lot of things out there that will shorten your lifespan. If you want to live as long as possible, I suggest changing several habits that are proven to shorten lifespans.

WHACKMASTER
03-19-2018, 05:26 PM
The reality is pilots probably do far more harm to their brains from alcohol consumption, and to some extent problems with women. :D

Would be hard to sit at a bar on an overnight and with a straight face complain to each other about how that smell may cause some health issues when older, as you pound that 9% Belgian. Iím not saying the risk isnít there, but if youíre going to make a stink about it, wouldnít you need to be the guy who doesnít drink, exercises, isnít 40lbs overweight, etc?

Well if that ^^^^^ isnít insinuating that booze, diet, etc are a far greater risk to our health than toxic cabin fumes then how else would you explain away your statement?

ecam
03-23-2018, 09:02 AM
I'm pretty sure that pyrolized tricresyl phosphate and dihydrogen oxide is what the the chemtrails are made of.

Occupational hazard I guess.

tom11011
04-04-2018, 07:11 PM
Accident: Spirit A319 at Boston on Jul 17th 2015, fumes on board, captain died 50 days later (http://avherald.com/h?article=4b6eb830&opt=0)

deltajuliet
04-04-2018, 07:42 PM
Nice find, great read.

nkbux
04-05-2018, 04:21 AM
Nice find, great read.

Ya great read.... except itís completely erroneous in almost every way

CamYZ125
04-05-2018, 05:18 AM
Ya great read.... except itís completely erroneous in almost every way

How so? Did you bother watching the video linked previously of the presentation by the FO in this incident?

nkbux
04-05-2018, 05:41 AM
How so? Did you bother watching the video linked previously of the presentation by the FO in this incident?

The FO is a good friend and that is all correct...except thereís a lot more to the story with the Captain...furthermore the ďchain of eventsĒ not being reported to the FAA is from a problem child flight attendant who sends this idiot false information which then gets published on this website. The company is well aware of it as are the 99% of the pilots. This is clearly an issue industry wide that needs to be addressed. Ours took center stage because of this event. However we are not under a rampant string of events everyday. How is that possible? Did we get a bad batch of 320ís and no one else is having problems? This happens at every airline in every type of A/C all the time. Sometimes itís more prevalent than others. Sometimes you may not even recognize itís happening. Iím not a company kool aid drinker but Spirit is leading the industry in fume awareness and is in the process of investing a ton of money into an STC for a state of the art filtration system on the bleeds that will do away with this problem. Not coming down on you...but this literature is the national enquirer of aviation incidents

CamYZ125
04-06-2018, 07:36 AM
The FO is a good friend and that is all correct...except thereís a lot more to the story with the Captain...

Gotcha. I thought you were calling BS to the fact that the incident happened. Quite the opposite in fact.

jcountry
04-07-2018, 08:04 AM
The FO is a good friend and that is all correct...except thereís a lot more to the story with the Captain...furthermore the ďchain of eventsĒ not being reported to the FAA is from a problem child flight attendant who sends this idiot false information which then gets published on this website. The company is well aware of it as are the 99% of the pilots. This is clearly an issue industry wide that needs to be addressed. Ours took center stage because of this event. However we are not under a rampant string of events everyday. How is that possible? Did we get a bad batch of 320ís and no one else is having problems? This happens at every airline in every type of A/C all the time. Sometimes itís more prevalent than others. Sometimes you may not even recognize itís happening. Iím not a company kool aid drinker but Spirit is leading the industry in fume awareness and is in the process of investing a ton of money into an STC for a state of the art filtration system on the bleeds that will do away with this problem. Not coming down on you...but this literature is the national enquirer of aviation incidents

Manufacturers should have solved this issue decades ago. They knew about it and put everyone in danger.

gipple
04-07-2018, 08:24 AM
Itís like the 3 stooges. Every party points at the other. Oil fumes are organophosphates. The same compounds as pesticides and chemical warfare agents. Major kudos to Spirit for taking the lead on this.
Like all things, follow the money.

rbigred300
04-09-2018, 08:13 PM
Is this problem pretty much mostly with Airbus 319/320/321s? Someone said it can happen with pretty much any aircraft, but I've only really seen Airbus mentioned

nkbux
04-10-2018, 05:04 AM
Is this problem pretty much mostly with Airbus 319/320/321s? Someone said it can happen with pretty much any aircraft, but I've only really seen Airbus mentioned

Not ONLY but seems to be more prevalent with Airbus, for what reason I donít know. There was a bad case on a 73 in the UK that led to terrible long term health issues for both guys. If your an airbus guy and your operator does not have a procedure for fume events...donít risk the possibilities. If you feel symptoms or smell the socks or citrus smell, don your mask and turn the left pack off...if itís coming from the cabin turn the right pack off. Furthermore, doing a single engine taxi with the APU bleed on is a fume event waiting to happen. TURN THE BLEED OFF UNTIL YOU START AN ENGINE Iíd rather be warm on a hot day than maced with oil. Better to be safe then sorry.

SuperDuty
04-11-2018, 10:23 AM
Good news, Frontier has a procedure in place. It's not in every QRH yet, but I just saw it in the back of the QRH in one of our newer NEO's. I haven't seen a memo yet making pilots aware of the procedure, but I hope that we'll see that soon. Maybe once they get it in every airplane.

Qotsaautopilot
04-11-2018, 03:50 PM
Good news, Frontier has a procedure in place. It's not in every QRH yet, but I just saw it in the back of the QRH in one of our newer NEO's. I haven't seen a memo yet making pilots aware of the procedure, but I hope that we'll see that soon. Maybe once they get it in every airplane.

QRH? Whatís that? Spirit has a maze of an electronic encyclopedia that changes regularly which you must find a problem in before it kills you. And I hear Airbus ships the plane with a QRH.

FlyingMaryJane
04-12-2018, 05:53 AM
?Asbestos of the Sky? - The Aviation Industry?s Darkest Coverup (http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/asbestos-sky-aviation-industry-s-darkest-coverup)

CAirBear
04-12-2018, 07:01 PM
Here at G4 we just had a bulletin come out with a Fumes Checklist that talks about ďWet SockĒ. Good to see most all Bus operators doing something about it, or at least aware of it.

What has Airbus said about this problem? Are they doing anything about it? I find it hard to believe the FAA couldnít step in and force their hand.

schwa
04-15-2018, 07:50 AM
The BA event comes to mind where the entire crew got sick. Does the fact that they got sick before the passengers mean that they already had an elevated level of the chemical in their blood? Are Airbus pilots always breathing low levels of this stuff?

I'd rather earn half and keep my brain than slowly get dementia over a career.

Sliceback
04-15-2018, 10:14 AM
The BA event comes to mind where the entire crew got sick. Does the fact that they got sick before the passengers mean that they already had an elevated level of the chemical in their blood? Are Airbus pilots always breathing low levels of this stuff?

I'd rather earn half and keep my brain than slowly get dementia over a career.

The entire crew didnít get sick. All were tested, three were treated. Along with 2(?) passengers. Smell was only near one door.

gipple
05-09-2018, 08:10 AM
Delta had a fume event in DEN yesterday. Another group of people most likely exposed to pyrolized oil.

WHACKMASTER
05-10-2018, 05:53 AM
Delta had a fume event in DEN yesterday. Another group of people most likely exposed to pyrolized oil.

A320 or what jet?

nkbux
05-11-2018, 08:15 AM
A320 or what jet?

Was a mad dog 90 from DTW

CAirBear
05-13-2018, 09:52 AM
I just experienced ďWet SockĒ this morning. It started right after the application of taxi power. What sucks big time is having never experienced this before, it took 10-15 seconds before I recognized this was it.

Being on the ground I immediately opened the window and we turned the packs off. We went back to the gate.

I thank god we were on the ground. By the time I knew it was ďWet SockĒ was about the time I was definitely feeling light headed and being affected physiologically by this. The Captain, however, wasnít affected (at least that is what he told me).

Serious question. What are things to have a Dr look for? There is no way my Doc is going to know anything about this. I know the Spirit crew went to the Dr and the CA was diagnosed with a whole list of things.

Again, serious question, does anyone know of what kind of test albeit blood or labs etc should be done?

Itís been a couple hours, and all I have is a slight headache. I think I will be okay, but I can absolutely understand how the Spirit crew were mentally out of it and couldnít talk well or change frequencies etc.

Scary **** and this has to be addressed. Thank you.

WHACKMASTER
05-13-2018, 03:11 PM
What airplane? Iíd get to a hospital immediately and have it all documented and have them run tests on you. You donít know how this could come back to haunt you and you should get a baseline.

mkfmbos
05-14-2018, 06:34 AM
I just experienced ďWet SockĒ this morning. It started right after the application of taxi power. What sucks big time is having never experienced this before, it took 10-15 seconds before I recognized this was it.

Being on the ground I immediately opened the window and we turned the packs off. We went back to the gate.

I thank god we were on the ground. By the time I knew it was ďWet SockĒ was about the time I was definitely feeling light headed and being affected physiologically by this. The Captain, however, wasnít affected (at least that is what he told me).

Serious question. What are things to have a Dr look for? There is no way my Doc is going to know anything about this. I know the Spirit crew went to the Dr and the CA was diagnosed with a whole list of things.

Again, serious question, does anyone know of what kind of test albeit blood or labs etc should be done?

Itís been a couple hours, and all I have is a slight headache. I think I will be okay, but I can absolutely understand how the Spirit crew were mentally out of it and couldnít talk well or change frequencies etc.

Scary **** and this has to be addressed. Thank you.

Airbus does not acknowledge this problem. There was a meeting with Airbus and a bunch of Fleet managers from various airlines and I guess Spiritís rep really made a stink about it. This is what I heard. I spoke with another guy that told me when he had it, he had a headache for 2 days. Definitely something to worry about and to see a doctor, but perhaps one that has experience with it. Would be hard to find. The issue is going to blow up in the airlines and the FAAs face eventually. Itís good that ALPA has begun making an issue out of this because itís going to be huge when the public realizes what these airlines have been hiding.

UASCOMPILOT
05-14-2018, 09:57 AM
Had it happen in flight a few times! Obviously, you can't open the window, so here's my solution to finish the leg!
1: 100% O2
2: Descended to an altitude that allows an APU start.
3: RUN the packs off the APU
4: VERIFY air quality has improved
5: Remove 02 mask continue with flight or divert to a destination of your choice.

Running the packs off the APU solves the burn off from the engines.

I've found it's the HP spool on the EMB145 that's the problem. In icing or a power out descent the packs pull off the HP spool and that's when you get the sock smell... obviously the HP Spool is toast! Your situation might be different of course. But it works and I'm sure it will work for your A/C also! Anyway good luck and happy breathing!

gipple
05-15-2018, 04:56 PM
Google Material Data Sheet. That is a starting point. Doctors have no idea.

TransWorld
05-16-2018, 04:32 AM
Google Material Data Sheet. That is a starting point. Doctors have no idea.

MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet).

gipple
05-16-2018, 05:23 AM
MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet).

Thank you.
This issue is like a 3 stooges routine. Every participant points at the other.
Sucks that our profession isnít given OSHA protections.

SuperDuty
05-16-2018, 06:51 AM
I just experienced ďWet SockĒ this morning. It started right after the application of taxi power. What sucks big time is having never experienced this before, it took 10-15 seconds before I recognized this was it.

Being on the ground I immediately opened the window and we turned the packs off. We went back to the gate.

I thank god we were on the ground. By the time I knew it was ďWet SockĒ was about the time I was definitely feeling light headed and being affected physiologically by this. The Captain, however, wasnít affected (at least that is what he told me).

Serious question. What are things to have a Dr look for? There is no way my Doc is going to know anything about this. I know the Spirit crew went to the Dr and the CA was diagnosed with a whole list of things.

Again, serious question, does anyone know of what kind of test albeit blood or labs etc should be done?

Itís been a couple hours, and all I have is a slight headache. I think I will be okay, but I can absolutely understand how the Spirit crew were mentally out of it and couldnít talk well or change frequencies etc.

Scary **** and this has to be addressed. Thank you.

If you are ALPA log onto the ALPA web sit and go to "Pilot Resources" then "Fume exposure guidance."

There is a link at the bottom - "Fume Exposure Health Care Provider Guide." This is a great resource to take with you to your doctor.

I'll link below but not sure if the link will work.

https://www.alpa.org/~/media/ALPA/Files/pdfs/resources-section/secure/fume-exposure-health-care-provider-guide.pdf?la=en

Great job responding promptly and going back to the gate! Could have been much worse. Hope you are feeling better!

rbigred300
06-07-2018, 11:03 AM
Any follow up for the last event? What was the outcome? What was maintenances reaction and how long did it take pilot to recover from symptoms?

Hetman
07-27-2018, 08:03 AM
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Spirit-Airlines-Flight-Diverted-LaGuardia-Florida-Myrtle-Beach-Hazmat-Odor-489318601.html

labbats
07-28-2018, 01:32 AM
Why is this issue only affecting ULCCs? Legacy airlines have flown old Airbus for decades and don’t seem to be plagued by this.

Fleet Warp
07-28-2018, 02:22 AM
Why is this issue only affecting ULCCs? Legacy airlines have flown old Airbus for decades and don’t seem to be plagued by this.

At a guess, money. ULCC are run on a regional budget. The CRJ 200 is plagued with the same problem, and I've been told the reason is they only "have" to change it during heavy checks.

It is caused downstream of the water separator, where air then "pass through a water separator coalescer or the sock. The sock retains the dirt and oil from the engine bleed air to keep the cabin air cleaner." (wikipedia) This sock also retains a lot of residual moisture and its in a dark place, so what you are smelling is mold and mildew. It is probably hazardous to your health as many molds and mildews contain toxins that affect the respiratory and nervous system.

Also not all aircraft have this style of filter, which is a contributing factor

DENpilot
07-28-2018, 02:36 AM
At a guess, money. ULCC are run on a regional budget. The CRJ 200 is plagued with the same problem, and I've been told the reason is they only "have" to change it during heavy checks.

It is caused downstream of the water separator, where air then "pass through a water separator coalescer or the sock. The sock retains the dirt and oil from the engine bleed air to keep the cabin air cleaner." (wikipedia) This sock also retains a lot of residual moisture and its in a dark place, so what you are smelling is mold and mildew. It is probably hazardous to your health as many molds and mildews contain toxins that affect the respiratory system.

:rolleyes: Moron, that wasn't even slightly funny or in the spirit of trolling...

This is a serious issue, and I would guess contract MX could be traced to the route source. These mechanics cannot even be trusted to write in the logbook correctly, let alone do proper APU oil servicing.

However, our illustrious management at F9 has tried to blame pilots turning off the batteries too soon. No joke.

Fleet Warp
07-28-2018, 03:23 AM
:rolleyes: Moron, that wasn't even slightly funny or in the spirit of trolling...

This is a serious issue, and I would guess contract MX could be traced to the route source. These mechanics cannot even be trusted to write in the logbook correctly, let alone do proper APU oil servicing.

However, our illustrious management at F9 has tried to blame pilots turning off the batteries too soon. No joke.

Get your eyes checked. That was a serious explanation bub.

Qotsaautopilot
07-28-2018, 09:42 AM
Get your eyes checked. That was a serious explanation bub.

Yeah ok. The smell is oil which contains neurotoxins but you know that from the rest of the thread

ShyGuy
07-28-2018, 01:00 PM
I once had a wet sock smell in the flight deck during cruise.



But then I looked to the left, the CA had pushed the seat back, taken his shoes off, and put his feet on the foot rest pedals.

FollowMe
07-30-2018, 04:19 AM
https://amp-businessinsider-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/amp.businessinsider.com/spirit-airlines-diverted-passengers-ill-mystery-odor-2018-7

BigTime
08-16-2018, 06:18 AM
I've experienced this dirty sock smell so many times in airplanes I can't keep count, on the ground and in flight. Mechanics always claimed it was a problem with the air conditioning packs. Never had any adverse health effects and never heard about anybody else having health problems afterward either.

BigTime
08-16-2018, 06:22 AM
At a guess, money. ULCC are run on a regional budget. The CRJ 200 is plagued with the same problem, and I've been told the reason is they only "have" to change it during heavy checks.

It is caused downstream of the water separator, where air then "pass through a water separator coalescer or the sock. The sock retains the dirt and oil from the engine bleed air to keep the cabin air cleaner." (wikipedia) This sock also retains a lot of residual moisture and its in a dark place, so what you are smelling is mold and mildew. It is probably hazardous to your health as many molds and mildews contain toxins that affect the respiratory and nervous system.

Also not all aircraft have this style of filter, which is a contributing factor

This I believe. I've experienced it many times. This is what our mechanics claimed was the problem. I've never had any negative health effects after a dirty sock smell event and neither have any of my crew or passengers.

GrumpyCaptain
08-16-2018, 07:00 AM
This I believe. I've experienced it many times. This is what our mechanics claimed was the problem. I've never had any negative health effects after a dirty sock smell event and neither have any of my crew or passengers.


From what I understand, these ďsocksĒ that are wet and cause wet sock smell donít exist. Itís urban legend.

You are actually smelling oil from the engine or apu. Itís doing damage to your brain. Sometimes enough to change your personality. Some even think there is a link to the high pilot suicide rate (which we never talk about) like football players with brain injuries.

Qotsaautopilot
08-16-2018, 08:29 AM
It is oil. It does contain neurotoxins. It comes from a leaky APU or a bad seal on one of the engines. If it’s the engine you will usually experience it on descent with thrust at idle. spirit has acknowledged this as fact. We have been told that we are even looking into different types of oils.

OOfff
08-16-2018, 10:45 AM
From what I understand, these ďsocksĒ that are wet and cause wet sock smell donít exist. Itís urban legend.

You are actually smelling oil from the engine or apu. Itís doing damage to your brain. Sometimes enough to change your personality. Some even think there is a link to the high pilot suicide rate (which we never talk about) like football players with brain injuries.

We donít talk about pilot suicides because, when controlled for age, sex, race, and socioeconomic status, thereís not a statistically significant difference that can be blamed on the aviation career.

Fleet Warp
08-16-2018, 11:24 AM
From what I understand, these ďsocksĒ that are wet and cause wet sock smell donít exist. Itís urban legend.


It is oil. It does contain neurotoxins. It comes from a leaky APU or a bad seal on one of the engines. If itís the engine you will usually experience it on descent with thrust at idle. spirit has acknowledged this as fact. We have been told that we are even looking into different types of oils.

There is a sock. I know because I've changed them. It is an older design of environmental system like the A319/20.

The smell is not just oil, it is also mold, probably black mold because wet gym socks is what Black mold smells like. I know cause I've seen that too. There is always moldiness on and around the sock area, because it's always damp and it should be changed weekly but it is not required to be changed by regulations, so it doesn't happen.

Qotsaautopilot
08-16-2018, 12:21 PM
There is a sock. I know because I've changed them. It is an older design of environmental system like the A319/20.

The smell is not just oil, it is also mold, probably black mold because wet gym socks is what Black mold smells like. I know cause I've seen that too. There is always moldiness on and around the sock area, because it's always damp and it should be changed weekly but it is not required to be changed by regulations, so it doesn't happen.

Iím not doubting there is mold in there that may smell that way but when the airline acknowledges that the oil has that same smell when they have every motivation to deny it Iím going to believe them. Now if Iím stuck in a metal tube thatís pumping suspect air at me Iím going to do my best to remove it and if not possible divert. Best case itís mold as you say (still not good), and worse case itís toxic oil fumes that can damage your brain permanently. They smell the same. I hope Iím not on your flight while you decide to roll that dice.

Fleet Warp
08-16-2018, 04:37 PM
Iím not doubting there is mold in there that may smell that way but when the airline acknowledges that the oil has that same smell when they have every motivation to deny it Iím going to believe them. Now if Iím stuck in a metal tube thatís pumping suspect air at me Iím going to do my best to remove it and if not possible divert. Best case itís mold as you say (still not good), and worse case itís toxic oil fumes that can damage your brain permanently. They smell the same. I hope Iím not on your flight while you decide to roll that dice.

Well I suppose that explains a lot about me cus I've been drenched in 7808, not sure what your jet uses but i can tell you with certainty that it smells very similar to black mold but not identical. Having lived in a dormitory with black mold in the ducting I learned something about it. Oh and yes the sock also catches oil too.

I assumed every one knew what I was getting on about the mold, but it seems some of you need to know this.

Black mold also has side effects that can cause a lot of the immediate problems that would require diversion. But a company would want too hide that.

The most common black mold symptoms and health effects are associated with a respiratory response. Chronic coughing and sneezing, irritation to the eyes, mucus membranes of the nose and throat, rashes, chronic fatigue and persistent headaches can all be symptomatic of black mold exposure or black mold poisoning.

In particularly severe cases of prolonged exposure, black mold health effects can be more dangerous. Often compounded by allergic reaction to the black mold spores, these symptoms can include nausea, vomiting, and bleeding in the lungs and nose.

BoJet
08-16-2018, 06:35 PM
I was in the back of a UA 320 and around 10k feet descending there was this horrible smell almost like burning plastic but it only lasted a few seconds. I wonder if this was it.

Sounds like an Unoís Pizza fart to me 💨. Itís the new buy-on-board.

BeatNavy
08-17-2018, 12:04 AM
Most of the fume events arenít a constant dirty sock smell. It seems to happen most at TOD but is never really a constant smell and comes about at various phases of flight. If it was dirty pack filters, it would be constant as long as air went thru the packs, IE as soon as the APU provides bleed air to the packs at the gate. If it smelled like dirty socks at the gate with the APU bleed on as soon as you get on the plane it should be written up and you should get off the plane until itís fixed. If the smell comes at some later time, then itís clearly not mold/dirty filters, as that would have been there earlier. So no, these fumes arenít from moldy socks/filters.

Qotsaautopilot
08-17-2018, 05:39 AM
Most of the fume events arenít a constant dirty sock smell. It seems to happen most at TOD but is never really a constant smell and comes about at various phases of flight. If it was dirty pack filters, it would be constant as long as air went thru the packs, IE as soon as the APU provides bleed air to the packs at the gate. If it smelled like dirty socks at the gate with the APU bleed on as soon as you get on the plane it should be written up and you should get off the plane until itís fixed. If the smell comes at some later time, then itís clearly not mold/dirty filters, as that would have been there earlier. So no, these fumes arenít from moldy socks/filters.

Whenever Iíve had it at the tgate the APU was found to have a substantial oil leak. They burned the packs and MELd the APU

SoFloFlyer
08-19-2018, 09:32 PM
Is the wet sock an issue on the 145, 175, and the 737? Seems to be an AB issue

Qotsaautopilot
08-20-2018, 06:00 AM
Is the wet sock an issue on the 145, 175, and the 737? Seems to be an AB issue

Any plane that uses bleed air for the packs can have it. My understanding is the 145 is a heavy offender. The 787 is the only airplane that doesnít use bleed air

tomgoodman
08-20-2018, 06:26 AM
Any plane that uses bleed air for the packs can have it. My understanding is the 145 is a heavy offender. The 787 is the only airplane that doesnít use bleed air

Early jets like the DC-8 used turbocompressors for the A/C packs, because they didnít know if bleed air would be completely safe.

jcountry
08-20-2018, 09:08 AM
Early jets like the DC-8 used turbocompressors for the A/C packs, because they didnít know if bleed air would be completely safe.

Maybe we can go back to that.

Something really needs to be done.

Aircraft manufacturers have known about the oil risk for at least a few decades, and they have refused to take it seriously.

I have a feeling the courts will now punish them for that willful ignorance.

SoFloFlyer
08-20-2018, 02:36 PM
Any plane that uses bleed air for the packs can have it. My understanding is the 145 is a heavy offender. The 787 is the only airplane that doesnít use bleed air

Where do the packs run off on the 787?

Sliceback
08-20-2018, 03:01 PM
Where do the packs run off on the 787?

Electrically driven compressors.

Big E 757
08-20-2018, 07:24 PM
Maybe we can go back to that.

Something really needs to be done.

Aircraft manufacturers have known about the oil risk for at least a few decades, and they have refused to take it seriously.

I have a feeling the courts will now punish them for that willful ignorance.

I was on the 757/767 for eight years and often, when shutting down an engine while taxiing in, I’d get a dose of atomized fuel...or some other toxin, through the packs. I’ve been on the airbus for 2 years and I’ve only smelled what I’d call a dirty sock smell once. It was at JFK and the APU was running and the packs were supplying air....the winds were howling sideways across the aircraft and I think the APU exhaust was being ingested on the downwind side and being sent into the cabin. It was mildly irritating to my nose and as soon as a flight attendant complained, I turned the downwind pack off and the smell dissipated after a few minutes.

I don’t know about the rest of you guys but I went from not having any allergies, 10-15 years ago, to now, having pretty bad allergies, and not only seasonally. I feel like I come to work fine, and uncongested, and after a day or two at work, my nose is running, my eyes dry out occasionally...I can live with it but it’s not pleasant. In the spring and the fall, it’s a lot worse. I missed 3 weeks of work last February when, on a trip, during a red eye, my ear started acting up. I went home sick and went to quick care. I had a sinus infection, two ear infections and strep. It took three weeks before I could get the pressure to equalize in my ear.

My Primary care Doc has Told me about several AMA articles he’s read regarding the atomized fuel being inhaled by passengers and the studies and tests they’ve done on how harmful it is. Once it just an irritant, but over time, it can cause permanent damage.

All I can say is, I’m glad I’ve got a huge life insurance policy, cause I don’t know if I’ll live long enough to see my kids off to college.

Edit: I just read my entire post and realize I jumped around a lot with the issues I’ve had lately and I’m not blaming strep or the ear infections on the dirty sock smell...I’ve just been getting sick a lot more over the past 5-10 years, and I’m concerned about the health implications of all the crap we are exposed to. I was on the 757/767 for a majority of that time too. Maybe I’m just getting old and that’s why I’m getting sick more often...I don’t know.

TCASTESTOK
08-22-2018, 07:50 AM
I was talking to a crew about this a few days ago actually, bought up the Spirit pilot who died due to it and that now whenever they get the smell they divert immediately. And if the crew is breathing that stuff in imagine what the folks in back are breathing in, especially the elderly.

TrojanCMH
09-05-2018, 12:15 PM
Had one going into Seattle a while back. Raining hard, moderate turbulence. Got the sock smell on the downwind. They tried to ďburn it out of the packsĒ by running the engines up with the packs on. Maintenance brought plane back, we boarded with APU on and no issues. When we pushed back and started it reeked of the sock smell. Returned to the gate. One of the FAs was pregnant and said she didnít want to get back on plane. We agreed, told dispatch we werenít accepting the plane. They cancelled the flight. Moral is I donít think it has to do with the pack filters being dirty as it was fine running off the APU.

Something isnít right... We are getting new super fancy filters that supposedly filter out the fine particulates though so thatís nice. I flew the 145 for a decade and I smelt that all the time and just thought it was a moldy filter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gipple
09-06-2018, 11:58 AM
I wonder if the Emirates medical issue had something to do with pyrolized oil.

GrumpyCaptain
09-22-2018, 01:55 AM
Looks like APA took the video down?

Anyone have a new link for the Eric Tellmann presentation?

You tube????

CAirBear
09-22-2018, 03:30 PM
Looks like APA took the video down?

Anyone have a new link for the Eric Tellmann presentation?

You tube????

I was trying to find it as well. Hopefully someone has it!

DickBurns
09-22-2018, 06:47 PM
I was trying to find it as well. Hopefully someone has it!

Quick search on the interwebs and I found this.

https://archive.org/details/youtube-5sSz-03i8PY

CAirBear
09-22-2018, 10:04 PM
Quick search on the interwebs and I found this.

https://archive.org/details/youtube-5sSz-03i8PY

Thank you very much! That was a great presentation.

FlyingMaryJane
09-25-2018, 01:25 PM
saw this article today, things need to change


https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/09/24/study-shows-toxic-air-events-happening-on-more-flights-than-faa-reports/

Blue Dude
09-27-2018, 09:30 AM
Also watch this on Amazon Prime: Cabin Pressure: Is the Air Toxic? (https://www.amazon.com/Cabin-Pressure-Toxic-Marianne-Kerfriden/dp/B07GNV8YYV/)

cal73
09-29-2018, 07:37 AM
Werenít Alaska flight attendants suing a few years back due to illness supposedly due to exposure to ozone in the high latitudes?

BeatNavy
03-28-2019, 07:48 PM
Airlines face lawsuits over 'toxic' cabin air https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47740523

Guppydriver95
03-30-2019, 08:23 PM
Airlines face lawsuits over 'toxic' cabin air https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47740523

Never ever take a 737 with more than 100% hyd quantity on either system. Make em drain or transfer. If it causes a delay, so be it.

RudderJockey
04-17-2019, 07:31 PM
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/study-reveals-permanent-brain-damage-among-pilots-and-cabin-crew/ (https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/study-reveals-permanent-brain-damage-among-pilots-and-cabin-crew)

Beer30
08-14-2019, 04:46 PM
Anyone have any info on what to do if you believe youíve been affected by this? Doctors who specialize, treatments, tests, etc. Happened many months ago and lots of dead ends. Lots of talk no action that I can see. I have heard of people using hyperbaric oxygen therapy, any experiences?

CAirBear
08-14-2019, 04:55 PM
Anyone have any info on what to do if you believe youíve been affected by this? Doctors who specialize, treatments, tests, etc. Happened many months ago and lots of dead ends. Lots of talk no action that I can see. I have heard of people using hyperbaric oxygen therapy, any experiences?

Just so I am clear. You had a fume event a few months ago? There are a couple Doctors who specialize with this stuff. I would have to go and find out who they are. I think a number of them are in the UK.

terryhflyer
08-14-2019, 05:50 PM
Anyone have any info on what to do if you believe you’ve been affected by this? Doctors who specialize, treatments, tests, etc. Happened many months ago and lots of dead ends. Lots of talk no action that I can see. I have heard of people using hyperbaric oxygen therapy, any experiences?

I have had three of these fume events. One thing that helped me was sitting in a sauna and sweating it out. A deep tissue massage would help get the toxins out as well. Just a suggestion.

Beer30
08-14-2019, 08:00 PM
Yes several months ago I had a fume event. Contacted an ALPA doc who didnít offer much and neither have my local MDs. There is a PhD at Duke that is very knowledgeable about organophosphates in airline cabin air and good to talk to but again no solutions. Iíve been using saunas quite a bit and weirdly seems to give temporary relief

CAirBear
08-14-2019, 09:00 PM
Yes several months ago I had a fume event. Contacted an ALPA doc who didnít offer much and neither have my local MDs. There is a PhD at Duke that is very knowledgeable about organophosphates in airline cabin air and good to talk to but again no solutions. Iíve been using saunas quite a bit and weirdly seems to give temporary relief

Okay. So all of this time you are experiencing symptoms or issues? Is this happening every day? I will try and find the names of the UK Docs tomorrow.

rbigred300
08-14-2019, 11:25 PM
Never ever take a 737 with more than 100% hyd quantity on either system. Make em drain or transfer. If it causes a delay, so be it.

Is this the same for a 320? Iíve had an overservice on the 320 many times and even asked MX and they said that is not a contributor or a problem.

CAirBear
08-15-2019, 04:34 AM
Is this the same for a 320? Iíve had an overservice on the 320 many times and even asked MX and they said that is not a contributor or a problem.

Yes. At my last airline our fume events decreased, dramatically, after they stopped over servicing oil and Hydraulics. This was an all Airbus carrier.

I canít say it is 100% guaranteed to happen if over serviced, but your odds are certainly increased.

Beer30
08-15-2019, 08:56 AM
Okay. So all of this time you are experiencing symptoms or issues? Is this happening every day? I will try and find the names of the UK Docs tomorrow.

Most days yes