Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : AA joint venture with Qantas


Groundpointfife
03-01-2018, 04:51 PM
Discuss,

https://thepointsguy.com/2018/02/american-and-qantas-revive-push-for-joint-venture/


BarrySeal
03-01-2018, 05:23 PM
They are both OneWorld now

https://www.oneworld.com/member-airlines/overview
(https://www.oneworld.com/member-airlines/overview)

Groundpointfife
03-02-2018, 04:17 AM
They are both OneWorld now

https://www.oneworld.com/member-airlines/overview
(https://www.oneworld.com/member-airlines/overview)

Well there's a difference between being in an alliance and a joint venture.

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2017/10/12/interline-codeshare-alliances-joint-ventures/

"If a codeshare agreement is like dating, then a joint venture is like getting married. A joint venture agreement is a massive business decision that typically requires extensive government approval. When airlines form a joint venture they coordinate pricing and schedules, and have a revenue sharing agreement."

The thought I had was how will this affect the requirement for pilot jobs? If airlines in a joint venture can coordinate pricing and scheduling, they can reduce the number of flights.

If I'm not mistaken Qantas and Emirates entered into an agreement in 2012, which shifted a lot of flying to Emirates.

Look at all the green routes operated by Emirates:
https://www.qantas.com/travel/airlines/qantas-emirates/global/en


LIOG41
03-04-2018, 07:36 AM
If (“when”...thanks to Trump administration) this gets approved I’ll bet the company will follow this up with a decision on the 350 order and/or more exercising 787 options.

Laker24
03-04-2018, 11:58 AM
I agree. They will probably cancel the 350 order and opt not to buy more 787s. Why spend 200+ million a pop when you can just get QANTAS to do it with a nicer product? I’m worried that the future of AA is a massive 321/737 fleet to feed QANTAS, LanTam, British Airways, Japan Airlines, and China Southern. Standby for more exciting announcements like AAs nonstop service from ORD-Myrtle Beach

atpcliff
03-05-2018, 05:43 AM
I thought the total cost for a Qantas pilot was higher than for any american pilot? If so, then maybe Qantas wants to shift flying to AA, as they did with Emirates.

Groundpointfife
03-11-2018, 06:15 PM
I thought the total cost for a Qantas pilot was higher than for any american pilot? If so, then maybe Qantas wants to shift flying to AA, as they did with Emirates.

Possibly but the exchange rate and higher pay in today’s market might make a Qantas pilot cheaper. Then AA would want to shift flying to Aussie pilots.

Especially if Qantas can repatriate pilots who went to Emirates, Cathay, Air Japan etc and pay them first year rates.

whalesurfer
03-11-2018, 07:08 PM
If (“when”...thanks to Trump administration) this gets approved I’ll bet the company will follow this up with a decision on the 350 order and/or more exercising 787 options.

Why the need to get political? :rolleyes:

At least the previous, ‘labor-friendly’ administration blocked the alter-ego Norwegian entity from entering the US market, right?.. Oh wait, no, they didn’t block it.. :eek:

Newsflash - neither side cares about our profession.
___
No dog in this fight but I know a couple of Qantas pilots. They say Emirates joint venture ended up benefiting primarily Emirates. In fact, they couldn’t think of any positives coming from their JV. Of course, they might be somewhat biased..

Floobs
03-11-2018, 11:11 PM
I agree. They will probably cancel the 350 order and opt not to buy more 787s. Why spend 200+ million a pop when you can just get QANTAS to do it with a nicer product? I’m worried that the future of AA is a massive 321/737 fleet to feed QANTAS, LanTam, British Airways, Japan Airlines, and China Southern. Standby for more exciting announcements like AAs nonstop service from ORD-Myrtle Beach

I disagree, this will be a very good thing. They already said if we don't get the JV we won't be doing AKL much longer they also said if we DO get the JV we will be able to add more to Australia like Perth. So we need this JV to happen.

I also hope we can get a JV with China Southern, we would probably add some more cities in mainland china.

whalesurfer
03-12-2018, 01:09 AM
..I also hope we can get a JV with China Southern, we would probably add some more cities in mainland china.

Wow, wow.. fly on China Southern frequently.. wonder how you’ll ever be able to compete with them? Their senior captains probably make less than your new hire-hire gate agents. Not putting anyone down, just making a comparison argument... ..and working for an airline, in ANY capacity, is a FANTASTIC job over there.. (think US in the 50s)..

Do you really think any joint venture with a Chinese carrier can be beneficial to a US based airline? (pilots and flight attendants, not the corporation which would benefit GREATLY from such a JV!!!)

If you think so then I’ve got this fantastic ocean-view Oklahoma property I’d like to sell you... :rolleyes:

Laker24
03-12-2018, 07:49 AM
Their senior captains probably make less than your new hire-hire gate agents. Not putting anyone down, just making a comparison argument... ..and working for an airline, in ANY capacity, is a FANTASTIC job over there.. (think US in the 50s)..



Want to earn $300,000 tax free? Try flying a plane in China - Nov. 15, 2016 (http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/15/news/economy/china-airlines-foreign-pilots-pay/index.html)

Floobs
03-12-2018, 08:38 AM
Do you really think any joint venture with a Chinese carrier can be beneficial to a US based airline?

Yes I do. A JV will allow American to enter at least 2 more markets in central China that are hubs for China southern.

Saabs
03-12-2018, 10:58 AM
Yes I do. A JV will allow American to enter at least 2 more markets in central China that are hubs for China southern.

They are on record at a crew news saying they don’t envision flying to any other Chinese destinations. Someone asked as United flies to secondary markets like Chengdu (excuse the spelling).

I hope they are wrong of course.

whalesurfer
03-12-2018, 12:56 PM
Want to earn $300,000 tax free? Try flying a plane in China - Nov. 15, 2016 (http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/15/news/economy/china-airlines-foreign-pilots-pay/index.html)

Sorry, those are expat jobs/pay rates, what you and I would be getting. Local pilots get a fraction of that. Pay is based on what the typical pilot would be getting in their home country. The large pay disparity is one reason for the resentment locals feel toward expats.

Either way, I sincerely hope you’re all correct and that this will be the first joint venture with a Chinese carrier that’s actually beneficial to pilots and flight attendants.

Floobs
03-12-2018, 02:14 PM
They are on record at a crew news saying they don’t envision flying to any other Chinese destinations. Someone asked as United flies to secondary markets like Chengdu (excuse the spelling).

I hope they are wrong of course.

They did say that but I think that was in response to doing it without a JV partner.

If and when China southern joins thirdworld and gets a JV with AA, You will see us fly to their hubs from our hubs.

Cheddar
03-12-2018, 05:39 PM
They did say that but I think that was in response to doing it without a JV partner.



If and when China southern joins thirdworld and gets a JV with AA, You will see us fly to their hubs from our hubs.



That’s correct. Doug said only more China flying with a JV partner to give domestic feed. If anything, it would increase our presence there, not hurt it. If we net one new flight on our metal from either JV, that’s one more than we would’ve had.

Qantas JV secures AKL, adds Brisbane and maybe Perth

China Southern makes our China flying more profitable and may add secondary cities in the future like Guangzhou

Floobs
03-12-2018, 11:05 PM
That’s correct. Doug said only more China flying with a JV partner to give domestic feed. If anything, it would increase our presence there, not hurt it. If we net one new flight on our metal from either JV, that’s one more than we would’ve had.

Qantas JV secures AKL, adds Brisbane and maybe Perth

China Southern makes our China flying more profitable and may add secondary cities in the future like Guangzhou

Exactly, so I don't understand the chicken little attitude by some that think this is bad. We want this we want more of this. Delta has three JV partners in Europe and they fly the most flights across the Atlantic. Same goes for United in Asia.

Cheddar
03-14-2018, 04:37 AM
Well, we want JV partners, but we need SCOPE protections as well. We want the net gain in flying going to us, not our ‘new friends.’

Delta has a horrible history recently of losing WB routes to JV partners.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Saabs
03-14-2018, 06:37 AM
Well, we want JV partners, but we need SCOPE protections as well. We want the net gain in flying going to us, not our ‘new friends.’

Delta has a horrible history recently of losing WB routes to JV partners.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah every delta guy hates JV it seems.

mainlineAF
03-14-2018, 06:50 AM
Well, we want JV partners, but we need SCOPE protections as well. We want the net gain in flying going to us, not our ‘new friends.’

Delta has a horrible history recently of losing WB routes to JV partners.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It’s my understanding that delta may not fly to as many destinations as they did before their JVs but they have just as many international block hours.

Instead of multiple destinations they fly a ton of flights to CDG and AMS. Block hours are all matter, not number of destinations.

Floobs
03-14-2018, 07:52 PM
Yeah every delta guy hates JV it seems.

I don't get why. They still serve more cities to europe and Asian than we do.

Saabs
03-14-2018, 10:32 PM
I don't get why. They still serve more cities to europe and Asian than we do.

They always have. But they do less than they used to.

Godzilla
03-15-2018, 06:51 PM
Possibly but the exchange rate and higher pay in today’s market might make a Qantas pilot cheaper. Then AA would want to shift flying to Aussie pilots.

Especially if Qantas can repatriate pilots who went to Emirates, Cathay, Air Japan etc and pay them first year rates.

There are a lot more factors than pilot pay that figure into international code shares and long range and wide body flying.

Do you really think these agreements happen simply because of the difference in cockpit costs between the two carriers?
You are overestimating your importance in this equation.

Dolphinflyer
03-16-2018, 08:25 PM
Exactly, so I don't understand the chicken little attitude by some that think this is bad. We want this we want more of this. Delta has three JV partners in Europe and they fly the most flights across the Atlantic. Same goes for United in Asia.

Get two Sharpie markers, 1 red for AA, 1 blue for British Airways.

Now draw nonstop flights from the UK to the United States for each airline.

Go by another blue Sharpie marker when you run out of blue ink for BA.

Floobs
03-17-2018, 07:20 AM
Get two Sharpie markers, 1 red for AA, 1 blue for British Airways.

Now draw nonstop flights from the UK to the United States for each airline.

Go by another blue Sharpie marker when you run out of blue ink for BA.

Apples and oranges. Other than phx or bos none of those city pairs to London would be served by AA and I gurantee you without the JV we wouldn't be doing all the UK, Ireland flying or all the London flying we are doing now.

mainlineAF
03-17-2018, 07:31 AM
They always have. But they do less than they used to.



It’s not about the number of cities, it’s about block hours. I’d rather have 50 flights to LHR than 25 flights to different cities in Europe.

mainlineAF
03-17-2018, 07:32 AM
Get two Sharpie markers, 1 red for AA, 1 blue for British Airways.

Now draw nonstop flights from the UK to the United States for each airline.

Go by another blue Sharpie marker when you run out of blue ink for BA.



BA runs those from a massive hub in LHR. Like the last guy said no way we’d fly TPA/BWI/MSY etc to LHR if they weren’t a codeshare partner.

Laker24
03-17-2018, 09:13 AM
BA runs those from a massive hub in LHR. Like the last guy said no way we’d fly TPA/BWI/MSY etc to LHR if they weren’t a codeshare partner.

I think the difference is that BA flies just about everywhere from their hub. I believe their Group 4 acft represent 40%+ of the total fleet. AA has a bigger hub in DFW yet we only operate a fraction of the international flying on a percentage basis. It’s complex to operate and expensive. I think Parker and team would rather just codeshare that flying and work on more 321/737 city pairs.

Name User
03-17-2018, 09:25 AM
I'm actually surprised, I would think BA's costs are higher. So maybe not just about costs.

Laker24
03-17-2018, 04:34 PM
some interesting info.
https://garfors.com/2013/03/the-worlds-most-international-airlines-html/

R57 relay
03-17-2018, 04:51 PM
There are a lot more factors than pilot pay that figure into international code shares and long range and wide body flying.

Do you really think these agreements happen simply because of the difference in cockpit costs between the two carriers?
You are overestimating your importance in this equation.

That is a pretty common pilot attribute.

propbandit
03-17-2018, 05:31 PM
some interesting info.
https://garfors.com/2013/03/the-worlds-most-international-airlines-html/

That article is over 5 yrs old. :confused:



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1