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Jmrr
03-03-2018, 08:40 PM
If you are flying a BE40 as a copilot On a part 91 operator, with a comercial license, and not recieving payment from the company , can you use a third class medical?


MosquitoXEL
03-03-2018, 09:06 PM
The FAA considers free flight time to be compensation, so no. You would need to have at least a second class medical.

Jmrr
03-03-2018, 10:09 PM
I understand that part, but even being a part 91aircraft?


TiredSoul
03-04-2018, 03:45 AM
I understand that part, but even being a part 91aircraft?

1. Yes
2. Why you flying for free?
3. Why you flying right seat without formal training?

Be very careful with this.
If you get a hotel room paid on an overnight - considered compensation
If company gets you a rental car - considered compensation.
If you get a Starbucks gift card - considered compensation.

It’s not only getting a check in the mail that the FAA considers ‘compensation’.

JohnBurke
03-04-2018, 06:12 AM
The FAA considers free flight time to be compensation, so no. You would need to have at least a second class medical.

The FAA Chief Legal Counsel has interpreted the logging of flight time to be compensation. The Chief Legal Counsel has also differentiated between the flight time, and the logging of that time.

rickair7777
03-04-2018, 07:08 AM
It's most likely compensation, otherwise why would you be doing it for free?

If you're an entry-level commercial pilot and logging it, you're obviously doing it for career-enhancement. If you're a retired legacy wide-body CA, don't need the money, don't need the time, and are not logging it you can rightly claim you're doing it for fun.

Presumably you got the required minimum training to sit right seat? I also assume it's a two-pilot aircraft, with no single-pilot provision?

TiredSoul
03-04-2018, 11:38 AM
If you are flying a BE40 as a copilot On a part 91 operator, with a comercial license, and not recieving payment from the company , can you use a third class medical?

Buddy, you could be in a world of hurt.
Ask yourself how you’re going to explain yourself in front of the NTSB judge.
If you’ve had no training you’re simply a passenger in a cockpit with a single decision maker.
If the “real pilot” makes the wrong decision and heads off for the weeds you are still going to be on the hook for it.
I’ve turned down I don’t know how many offers when I was flight instructing.
“ Hey buddy, you’ve got a Commercial right? Wanna sit right seat in my Baron/KingAir/Lear as we do this trip?”
“No pay though but you can log the time as I’m an ATP, gotta wear the uniform as the passenger paid for two pilots”.....
There’s just soooo much wrong with that I don’t even know where to start.

155mm
03-04-2018, 12:36 PM
Is the Captain a CFI and giving you flight instruction on a BE40? Pay him/her a buck an hour and then you are the customer/student. Have him/her enter it in your logbook as dual given....or simpler yet, get a 2nd class medical!

If anyone gives you any crap just say you heard it on airlinepilotcentral!

rickair7777
03-04-2018, 01:51 PM
Is the Captain a CFI and giving you flight instruction on a BE40? Pay him/her a buck an hour and then you are the customer/student. Have him/her enter it in your logbook as dual given....or simpler yet, get a 2nd class medical!

If anyone gives you any crap just say you heard it on airlinepilotcentral!

You can get away with dual for aircraft, airport, or route familiarization, or for some IFR currency/practice. You can't keep logging dual for the same thing over and over again (unless it's required for a cert/rating).

If an airline mightmistakenly hired you with 600 hours dual received, the DPE would probably refuse to do your ATP ride.

155mm
03-04-2018, 01:56 PM
You can get away with dual for aircraft, airport, or route familiarization, or for some IFR currency/practice. You can't keep logging dual for the same thing over and over again (unless it's required for a cert/rating).

If an airline mightmistakenly hired you with 600 hours dual received, the DPE would probably refuse to do your ATP ride.

I really don't give a [email protected]

MosquitoXEL
03-04-2018, 03:07 PM
The FAA Chief Legal Counsel has interpreted the logging of flight time to be compensation. The Chief Legal Counsel has also differentiated between the flight time, and the logging of that time.

Completely agree. I assumed the OP would log the time.

EMAW
03-05-2018, 06:20 PM
Yep, minimum to operate as SIC even under 91 is 3 bounces in the pattern and training in the operation. Even though it's not as specific as 91k, 135, 121. But you are still being compensated, so you would still need a 2nd class.

rickair7777
03-05-2018, 08:17 PM
I really don't give a [email protected]

I wasn't talking about you personally, I know you're at a major, I was talking in general about time builders. I personally know regional DPE's who have been handed an 8710 with 1500 TT and 600-800 hours dual received, logged in this kind of scenario. Had to send the kids packing back to the home 'drome to build some legal flight time. Awkward. Thanks HR.

155mm
03-06-2018, 07:08 AM
I wasn't talking about you personally, I know you're at a major, I was talking in general about time builders. I personally know regional DPE's who have been handed an 8710 with 1500 TT and 600-800 hours dual received, logged in this kind of scenario. Had to send the kids packing back to the home 'drome to build some legal flight time. Awkward. Thanks HR.

I apologize. I certainly don't know why he holds a 3rd class medical.

Another part 91 option is to be the owner/part owner of the aircraft. I'm not familiar with the FAR that restricts the number of hours of dual instruction a pilot can receive, perhaps you can enlighten us. I once gave a flight exam to an individual that received over 350 hours of dual instruction in his personal aircraft.

In the example you gave above, the DPE consults the FARs to see if the applicant is eligible for the rating and the checkride. If there is a question, the DPE has a POI to consult with.

The OP is simply asking if he can use the 3rd class medical to be a copilot on a part 91 flight. He mentions nothing of logging the flight time and using it towards other ratings. The answer is no if it is "commercial". In my scenario, can a Captain with a CFI, give dual instruction for hire on a 91 corporate jet to a rated commercial pilot with a current 3rd class medical????

TiredSoul
03-06-2018, 10:09 AM
What dual instruction is he giving?
Flying straight and level on the autopilot in RVSM?

155mm
03-06-2018, 02:57 PM
What dual instruction is he giving?
Flying straight and level on the autopilot in RVSM?

The point is, is it legal? I don't care if he is teaching him advanced FMS, RNAV, VNAV, while looking at the latest Playboy! In the OP's situation, it sounds more like a legal scenario. ie: ramp checked by the FAA. Not can I log it and count it towards an airline interview or another rating!

Original Posting:
"If you are flying a BE40 as a copilot On a part 91 operator, with a comercial license, and not recieving payment from the company , can you use a third class medical?"



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