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View Full Version : Apr 9th & May 7th classes


jetlaggy
03-08-2018, 10:04 AM
It appears we are down to one class a month now. Are these full....new hires where ya at?


brownie
03-08-2018, 01:00 PM
It appears we are down to one class a month now. Are these full....new hires where ya at?

Because we have new hire contractors doing the work..No need to hurry and staff this circus😩😩

CactusCrew
03-08-2018, 01:57 PM
Because we have new hire contractors doing the work..No need to hurry and staff this circus😩😩

There just may be some truth to this.

Western Global is hiring, does that count ?

:D


brownie
03-08-2018, 02:10 PM
There just may be some truth to this.

Western Global is hiring, does that count ?

:D

Thank you...

PastV1by10
03-08-2018, 06:26 PM
Because we have new hire contractors doing the work..No need to hurry and staff this circus😩😩

So much for that iron clad scope language, touted in the halls of the fern valley Bob Mahal as industry leading.

brownie
03-08-2018, 06:43 PM
So much for that iron clad scope language, touted in the halls of the fern valley Bob Mahal as industry leading.

We don't scope we have ocv.

767pilot
03-09-2018, 03:05 AM
So much for that iron clad scope language, touted in the halls of the fern valley Bob Mahal as industry leading.

Just because it's not good enough, doesn't mean it might not be the best out there. Keep in mind that any contract is only as good as the parties that signed it. When one has the motivation to subvert, they will.

Harrisburg
03-09-2018, 12:51 PM
So much for that iron clad scope language, touted in the halls of the fern valley Bob Mahal as industry leading.

Couldn't agree with you more. They are ****ting all over the very thing the IPA is proud of most.

FTFFv2
03-10-2018, 02:01 AM
So much for that iron clad scope language, touted in the halls of the fern valley Bob Mahal as industry leading.

UPS is subcontracting less than a handful of birds. In the context of your arguement, really, BFD.

CL300
03-10-2018, 06:08 AM
UPS is subcontracting less than a handful of birds. In the context of your arguement, really, BFD.

So that makes it okay? If we had five more -8s flying instead of subtracting Air 21 and WG, that would be 115 more pilots on our list that would be doing OUR flying.

I hope you were delirious after a long international trip when you posted that.....

PastV1by10
03-10-2018, 06:16 AM
UPS is subcontracting less than a handful of birds. In the context of your arguement, really, BFD.

Must be a nurp if you think even one airplane on our ramps is okay.

FTFFv2
03-10-2018, 06:33 AM
So that makes it okay?

Thought this made it pretty clear of the point I was getting at:

In the context of [his-PastV1] arguement....

When UPS starts their own version of TED, SONG, or starts outsourcing to a regional type model then itís probably justified to start knocking the EB. And correct me if Iím wrong, but arenít you the one thinking of cracking the 200K number year two? Ainít gunna do that unless you do the work of 1+ pilot.... ..... .....

Must be a nurp or brain dead if you think even one airplane on our ramps is okay.

Where in my post are you ascertaining Iím implying that? Making ship up in your own head there mate - attentive and objective reading skills would help with that. You are attacking the EB. Iím calling you out for having a myopic arguement.

PastV1by10
03-10-2018, 06:42 AM
Thought this made it pretty clear of the point I was getting at:



When UPS starts their own version of TED, SONG, or starts outsourcing to a regional type model then itís probably justified to start knocking the EB. And correct me if Iím wrong, but arenít you the one thinking of cracking the 200K number year two? Ainít gunna do that unless you do the work of 1+ pilot.... ..... .....



Where in my post are you ascertaining Iím implying that? Making ship up in your own head there mate - attentive and objective reading skills would help with that. You are attacking the EB. Iím calling you out for having a myopic arguement.

Wasn't knocking anyone, just stating fact. For years our leadership has allowed us to believe that we have a "iron clad" scope article mate. It seems pretty far from iron clad to me, but let me guess your ok with 60 dollars every other pay period.

FTFFv2
03-10-2018, 06:58 AM
I think itís pretty clear to everyone that this was a desperate action by UPS to patch a hole they created vs a grand master plan to save costs by subcontracting. Iíll wait and see how this plays out before passing judgement. And by choice, in reaction to the subcontracting, not intending to influence others, I donít pick up extra work but when I do itís only from the trip board.

$60 x 2700 pilots = $162K. Costing them almost the salary of a year 2 FO every bid period. Or $2.1M per year. Thatíll show up on a balance sheet. It might not be iron clad but itís got some teeth...

Ray Kinsella
03-10-2018, 08:28 AM
I think itís pretty clear to everyone that this was a desperate action by UPS to patch a hole they created vs a grand master plan to save costs by subcontracting. Iíll wait and see how this plays out before passing judgement. And by choice, in reaction to the subcontracting, not intending to influence others, I donít pick up extra work but when I do itís only from the trip board.

$60 x 2700 pilots = $162K. Costing them almost the salary of a year 2 FO every bid period. Or $2.1M per year. Thatíll show up on a balance sheet. It might not be iron clad but itís got some teeth...

Year 2 FO is north of $200k. Just sayin.

PastV1by10
03-10-2018, 11:27 AM
Year 2 FO is north of $200k. Just sayin.

and capts north of 450K.

whalesurfer
03-10-2018, 02:26 PM
...Iíll wait and see how this plays out before passing judgement.
...
$60 x 2700 pilots = $162K. Costing them almost the salary of a year 2 FO every bid period. Or $2.1M per year. Thatíll show up on a balance sheet. It might not be iron clad but itís got some teeth...

I agree with few of your other points but are you thinking of some of them good Ďole Kentucky teeth here?? :confused:

http://www.guy-sports.com/fun_pictures/one_eater.jpg

This $2.1M Kentucky TOOTH is a dream come true for brown because even though the penalty is an additional cost the contractors themselves are dirt cheap. You need to factor in the subcontractorsí pay rates. I got aprox numbers from an Austrian pilot who transitioned from emirates to turkish airlines for commuting purposes. He said that Turkish Airlines pays 25-30% less than Emirates. ..and the Turkish pay is about twice of what contractors out there get. So basically their senior captains (turkish subcontractors) make about half of what our junior FOs make. YUUUUGE savings for our company.

So while the company has to pay us a staggering :rolleyes: $2.1M for this flagrant outsourcing of our flying, they still save millions of dollars for every year non-ipa pilots fly our cargo.

Having said that, our scope is being challenged by the company and we all need to stick together. Many new hires and new-hire wannabes read these threads and I think your (cl300, harrisburg, pastv1, etc.) absolutely valid criticism should be put in context of our union negotiating with a big brown wall.

Maybe the scope isnít as great as we thought it was or maybe it is? I donít know, those decisions were made before my time here and itís all WAY above my pay grade. ..but what other options do we or did we have?

What we do know is that our EB needs us to stick together and to follow their lead. Iím proud of our union and know that you are too. We all know that our lives wouldíve been absolutely miserable without the work rules and the benefits IPA negotiated for us. Case in point, after my next 11-day trip Iíll be off for at least 39 days, possibly longer if I manage to get the first 2 weeks off in the 18-04 bid. ..and all I had to work with were 2 weeks of vacation! So 2 weeks of vac + OCV = LUV!!! LOL!
I showed my schedule to my fdx crashpad roomie and he was absolutely flabbergasted.

Yes, Iím worried. Yes, Iím mad at the company for their poor planning and their constant disregard of our contract.
However, Iím also optimistic that the union will defend us and that in the end weíll be ok. The company wants to grow. So do we. Iím hopeful weíll see a solution thatís acceptable to both sides.

Harrisburg
03-10-2018, 03:47 PM
I agree with few of your other points but are you thinking of some of them good ‘ole Kentucky teeth here?? :confused:

http://www.guy-sports.com/fun_pictures/one_eater.jpg

This $2.1M Kentucky TOOTH is a dream come true for brown because even though the penalty is an additional cost the contractors themselves are dirt cheap. You need to factor in the subcontractors’ pay rates. I got aprox numbers from an Austrian pilot who transitioned from emirates to turkish airlines for commuting purposes. He said that Turkish Airlines pays 25-30% less than Emirates. ..and the Turkish pay is about twice of what contractors out there get. So basically their senior captains (turkish subcontractors) make about half of what our junior FOs make. YUUUUGE savings for our company.

So while the company has to pay us a staggering :rolleyes: $2.1M for this flagrant outsourcing of our flying, they still save millions of dollars for every year non-ipa pilots fly our cargo.

Having said that, our scope is being challenged by the company and we all need to stick together. Many new hires and new-hire wannabes read these threads and I think your (cl300, harrisburg, pastv1, etc.) absolutely valid criticism should be put in context of our union negotiating with a big brown wall.

Maybe the scope isn’t as great as we thought it was or maybe it is? I don’t know, those decisions were made before my time here and it’s all WAY above my pay grade. ..but what other options do we or did we have?

What we do know is that our EB needs us to stick together and to follow their lead. I’m proud of our union and know that you are too. We all know that our lives would’ve been absolutely miserable without the work rules and the benefits IPA negotiated for us. Case in point, after my next 11-day trip I’ll be off for at least 39 days, possibly longer if I manage to get the first 2 weeks off in the 18-04 bid. ..and all I had to work with were 2 weeks of vacation! So 2 weeks of vac + OCV = LUV!!! LOL!
I showed my schedule to my fdx crashpad roomie and he was absolutely flabbergasted.

Yes, I’m worried. Yes, I’m mad at the company for their poor planning and their constant disregard of our contract.
However, I’m also optimistic that the union will defend us and that in the end we’ll be ok. The company wants to grow. So do we. I’m hopeful we’ll see a solution that’s acceptable to both sides.

Well said.

My personal opinion only is that we are just now aware of this subcontracting because it is happening in plain view. Can't even begin to imagine how much cheating is going on in other parts of the world we are not aware of. India has 1.3 ish billion people yet 1 flight a day to the whole country? Indonesia well over 250 million people and we don't even have a flight going in there? For every Western Global jet, they probably have 20 other doing the same thing under the radar and there ain't nothing we can do about it. Scope Tracker program I have found to be utterly useless as they will simply respond with a "nothing to see here" and that's the end of story.

Scope language is cute, and will remain as such until we invest in ways to police it more effectively than to simply ask the company "hey fellers, are you cheating us, again?" FedEx pilots don't need scope because their company operates differently. We, on the other hand, are working for some of the most dishonest people in the industry.

BoilerUP
03-10-2018, 04:12 PM
Ask a FedEx pilot about the wet lease subcontracting payments they get

Harrisburg
03-10-2018, 04:14 PM
Ask a FedEx pilot about the wet lease subcontracting payments they get


Better yet, ask a FedEx pilot about all the subcontract/outsourcings their company is doing.

CactusCrew
03-10-2018, 04:49 PM
Yes, I’m worried. Yes, I’m mad at the company for their poor planning and their constant disregard of our contract.
However, I’m also optimistic that the union will defend us and that in the end we’ll be ok. The company wants to grow. So do we. I’m hopeful we’ll see a solution that’s acceptable to both sides.

Agree, to a certain degree.

It may be true that UPS wants to grow. So does the IPA.

But, it does not seem like UPS wants to grow with us. At least not according to their actions. Actions speak louder than words.

UPS already has a solution, they could have included the IPA in the process a long time ago. They chose not to. I'm not so sure their idea of growth is a good thing.

Harrisburg
03-10-2018, 05:11 PM
Ask a FedEx pilot about the wet lease subcontracting payments they get

You do realize it's $2.13 a day, right?

BoilerUP
03-10-2018, 05:59 PM
You do realize it's $2.13 a day, right?


Point being, they also have other airlines flying their volume...

Harrisburg
03-10-2018, 06:42 PM
Point being, they also have other airlines flying their volume...


Maybe a bag or two here and there, not a whole fleet of wide bodies. FedEx operates their airline like they enjoy having an airline. Our people act like they are doing it at gun-point.

Charlie Murphy
03-11-2018, 01:55 AM
Ask a FedEx pilot about the wet lease subcontracting payments they get

Ask a FedEx pilot about their international commercial ticket DH policy. The one we couldnít get because we needed to keep our ironclad scope.

skek
03-11-2018, 04:42 AM
I agree with few of your other points but are you thinking of some of them good Ďole Kentucky teeth here?? :confused:

http://www.guy-sports.com/fun_pictures/one_eater.jpg

This $2.1M Kentucky TOOTH is a dream come true for brown because even though the penalty is an additional cost the contractors themselves are dirt cheap. You need to factor in the subcontractorsí pay rates. I got aprox numbers from an Austrian pilot who transitioned from emirates to turkish airlines for commuting purposes. He said that Turkish Airlines pays 25-30% less than Emirates. ..and the Turkish pay is about twice of what contractors out there get. So basically their senior captains (turkish subcontractors) make about half of what our junior FOs make. YUUUUGE savings for our company.

So while the company has to pay us a staggering :rolleyes: $2.1M for this flagrant outsourcing of our flying, they still save millions of dollars for every year non-ipa pilots fly our cargo.

Having said that, our scope is being challenged by the company and we all need to stick together. Many new hires and new-hire wannabes read these threads and I think your (cl300, harrisburg, pastv1, etc.) absolutely valid criticism should be put in context of our union negotiating with a big brown wall.

Maybe the scope isnít as great as we thought it was or maybe it is? I donít know, those decisions were made before my time here and itís all WAY above my pay grade. ..but what other options do we or did we have?

What we do know is that our EB needs us to stick together and to follow their lead. Iím proud of our union and know that you are too. We all know that our lives wouldíve been absolutely miserable without the work rules and the benefits IPA negotiated for us. Case in point, after my next 11-day trip Iíll be off for at least 39 days, possibly longer if I manage to get the first 2 weeks off in the 18-04 bid. ..and all I had to work with were 2 weeks of vacation! So 2 weeks of vac + OCV = LUV!!! LOL!
I showed my schedule to my fdx crashpad roomie and he was absolutely flabbergasted.

Yes, Iím worried. Yes, Iím mad at the company for their poor planning and their constant disregard of our contract.
However, Iím also optimistic that the union will defend us and that in the end weíll be ok. The company wants to grow. So do we. Iím hopeful weíll see a solution thatís acceptable to both sides.


This makes no sense at all. It makes no difference whatsoever what Western Global pays their pilots. Whether a captain there makes $75,000 or $500,000, UPS pays them (the contracting company) a set fee for ACMI. I assure you that a short term contract (one year if you believe the rumors) in these market conditions is most assuredly not inexpensive. So you take expensive subcontracted lift AND add on a not unsubstantial penalty (if that becomes true) and it, in fact, does begin to get the attention of Atlanta (the only people that really matter for change at a corporate level). But then again, I went to public school in Kentucky and apparently you have little regard for that. I do absolutely agree on the unity part (hence, the no making fun of you and your education. Despite an incredibly flawed argument on your part). Also, OCV is incredible. I'm getting ready to take advantage of that myself. Enjoy your time off, be professional and remain UNITED.

whalesurfer
03-11-2018, 01:56 PM
This makes no sense at all. It makes no difference whatsoever what Western Global pays their pilots. Whether a captain there makes $75,000 or $500,000, UPS pays them (the contracting company) a set fee for ACMI. I assure you that a short term contract (one year if you believe the rumors) in these market conditions is most assuredly not inexpensive....

...But then again, I went to public school in Kentucky and apparently you have little regard for that. I do absolutely agree on the unity part (hence, the no making fun of you and your education. Despite an incredibly flawed argument on your part). Also, OCV is incredible. I'm getting ready to take advantage of that myself. Enjoy your time off, be professional and remain UNITED.

Nice first post. :rolleyes:
I’m certain that this “most assuredly not inexpensive,” short term contract is worth peanuts to Atlanta when compared to the cost of growing our side of business. ..and the ‘short term contract’ part must’ve been lost on western global when they tell interviewees that this deal will generate hiring for years to come. Sure, they’re probably bluffing to entice more people to apply but..

Little disregard to public schools in Kentucky?? Huh? Went to public school myself and I don’t see it even mentioned in the comment you highlighted ? ...unless it pertains to some joke I might’ve made in a previous comment maybe? Not sure..
How about you quote just the part you’re disagreeing with or want to talk about next time instead of coping an entire segment?
Funny how you highlight the word UNITED after you rip into me with your very first post.

I think we agree on the fact outsourcing of our flying is wrong. I’m glad the company has to pay a penalty but I worry this penalty just isn’t severe enough for them to do something about it. Not criticizing the union because they did what they could. I simply believe the value of this penalty is minuscule to Atlanta bean counters.
People following the contract, flying the line and nothing but the line and never waiving the contract might have a greater effect on ipa haters in Atlanta. We’ll see what the future holds..

whalesurfer
03-11-2018, 02:03 PM
Agree, to a certain degree.

It may be true that UPS wants to grow. So does the IPA.

But, it does not seem like UPS wants to grow with us. At least not according to their actions. Actions speak louder than words.

...

You’re right, actions speak louder than words..
I’m still hopeful though.

PastV1by10
03-11-2018, 05:35 PM
I am surprised that some think having other carriers on our ramps is no big deal. Maybe if we put it into a staffing perspective of 7 international airplanes equaling into 70 new captain and 100 new fo positions would make it sting a little more. Got guys ticked off at NURPs being hired into the left seat but some donít give chit about these other outfits flying out rubber dogchit. Canít really make this stuff up.

FTFFv2
03-14-2018, 03:15 PM
I am surprised that some think having other carriers on our ramps is no big deal. Maybe if we put it into a staffing perspective of 7 international airplanes equaling into 70 new captain and 100 new fo positions would make it sting a little more. Got guys ticked off at NURPs being hired into the left seat but some donít give chit about these other outfits flying out rubber dogchit. Canít really make this stuff up.

But you are. No one is saying they are cool with the subcontracting and all I said was I donít think it is happening at a level enough to start publically accusing our EB of false statements. Seriously, you are creating your own fake news.

PastV1by10
03-15-2018, 10:07 AM
But you are. No one is saying they are cool with the subcontracting and all I said was I donít think it is happening at a level enough to start publically accusing our EB of false statements. Seriously, you are creating your own fake news.

Must be one of the regulars on the Bar and Grill who thinks our world revolves around our EB and this contract. Guys saying how great it is, meanwhile *****ing about everything under the sun, the catering thread is pretty hilarious.

Harrisburg
03-15-2018, 02:44 PM
the catering thread is pretty hilarious.

That thread costed me many beers.

Night_Hawk
03-15-2018, 05:32 PM
That thread costed me many beers.

come on:confused:

triandfly
03-22-2018, 10:37 AM
For folks in the April 9 and May 7th classes, when was your interview? Just trying to get an idea as to how far out people are getting scheduled for classes. I had heard a rumor that they've got training booked as far out as late summer now but haven't seen anything to confirm it...so to me it's still a rumor.
Thanks.

SoCalAirlifter
03-22-2018, 12:48 PM
For folks in the April 9 and May 7th classes, when was your interview? Just trying to get an idea as to how far out people are getting scheduled for classes. I had heard a rumor that they've got training booked as far out as late summer now but haven't seen anything to confirm it...so to me it's still a rumor.
Thanks.

Interviewed: 11 July 2017

Class date: 7 May 2018

Swimming for 10 months!!!

FTFFv2
03-22-2018, 06:27 PM
For folks in the April 9 and May 7th classes, when was your interview? Just trying to get an idea as to how far out people are getting scheduled for classes. I had heard a rumor that they've got training booked as far out as late summer now but haven't seen anything to confirm it...so to me it's still a rumor.
Thanks.

From having gone thru the experience, knowing others who have done so, reading these threads, our internal B&G forums, and hearing talk from the training people during recurrent all over the past 3 years, my best guess is that they pencil people into classes up to 3 months out. I bet they leave a few slots open for Ďhigh interview scoreí types until the last minute but have no evidence to support this. Also, there will always be class openings from people scheduled for classes who accept employment elsewhere. Key point: ace your interview. If youíre already in the pool keep improving your resume and keep trying for FedEx at the same time.

Best of luck!

FTFFv2
03-22-2018, 06:38 PM
Must be one of the regulars on the Bar and Grill who thinks our world revolves around our EB and this contract. Guys saying how great it is, meanwhile *****ing about everything under the sun, the catering thread is pretty hilarious.

It doesn’t get much better than this EB. Enjoy what we have while it lasts. Not expecting much from the ** guys like you will vote in next.

PastV1by10
03-23-2018, 06:46 AM
It doesnít get much better than this EB. Enjoy what we have while it lasts. Not expecting much from the fuhktard guys like you will vote in next.

Very eloquently put for a man of your education and stature, keep up the good work.

triandfly
03-24-2018, 07:18 AM
From having gone thru the experience, knowing others who have done so, reading these threads, our internal B&G forums, and hearing talk from the training people during recurrent all over the past 3 years, my best guess is that they pencil people into classes up to 3 months out. I bet they leave a few slots open for Ďhigh interview scoreí types until the last minute but have no evidence to support this. Also, there will always be class openings from people scheduled for classes who accept employment elsewhere. Key point: ace your interview. If youíre already in the pool keep improving your resume and keep trying for FedEx at the same time.

Best of luck!

Thanks! I took and passed the Hogan and the call dropped for the interview call. Havenít heard back. Argh on cell service.

Harrisburg
03-24-2018, 02:34 PM
Thanks! I took and passed the Hogan and the call dropped for the interview call. Havenít heard back. Argh on cell service.

They didn't bother calling you back? Who did you speak to?

cougar
04-03-2018, 12:35 AM
Apr 9th class:
13 747
3 A300
4 MD11
Subject to change.

jetlaggy
04-09-2018, 07:47 AM
Congrats and welcome to the new guys and gals

tumbleweed135
04-09-2018, 09:51 PM
Year 2 FO is north of $200k. Just sayin.

How much open time pick up is taken into your math?

CactusCrew
04-10-2018, 04:14 AM
How much open time pick up is taken into your math?

Simple Math:

Current 2nd year FO rate $175.72, in Sept 2018 it becomes $180.99
75 hours a pay period
13 pay periods a year

$180 x 75 x 13 = $175,500

Per Diem, overtime lines above 75, pick-up of open time, Junior Assignments, Late Arrivals, and flying over vacation will take it "north of $200"

The availability of these options is largely random and determined by fleet and domicile.

Someone smarter than me can post an average annual per diem amount, average overtime amount, etc

This simple $175,500 number is just the amount you see in the bank at pay day. Plenty of other compensation is deposited into a pension fund and a Fidelity account. Including those amounts would push pay over $200 without any additional "overtime" time, but you don't see it and spend it on pay day ... FWIW

G550Guy
04-10-2018, 12:10 PM
Per Diem, overtime lines above 75, pick-up of open time, Junior Assignments, Late Arrivals, and flying over vacation will take it "north of $200"

MD11 FO... I hold VTO lines. I trip trade with open time for an additional 10-20 hours or occasionally pickup pilot trip board drops. Haven't had a JA or premium pay the entire year, and will NOT fly over my vacation either. With absolute certainty I will go north of 200k this year. If I wanted to max it out and go 200-208 hours per bid period, it would be 220k.

So I, and anyone else who gets hired here needs to give the IPA pilots a huge thank you.

SoCalAirlifter
04-10-2018, 09:00 PM
Apr 9th class:
13 747
3 A300
4 MD11
Subject to change.

Did this end up being the actual drop?

RickyBobby
04-18-2018, 12:00 PM
Did this end up being the actual drop?

Nope, 2 A300 not 3. 19 total IPA pilots hired in that class.


RB

Harrisburg
04-18-2018, 12:39 PM
Nope, 2 A300 not 3. 19 total IPA pilots hired in that class.


RB

One no-show. Went to SWA

PastV1by10
04-19-2018, 04:58 AM
One no-show. Went to SWA

Have had several new hires leave for FedEx, Delta and SWA after starting class that no one is talking about.

VamosALaPlaya
04-19-2018, 06:23 AM
Have had several new hires leave for FedEx, Delta and SWA after starting class that no one is talking about.

There is no loyalty anymore. You are given the privilege to work for a great company, with great benefits, most likely the last Aviation job you will ever need, yet one slaps employer in the face after having spent valuable time and money to train you.

Not saying by any means UPS is a perfect place to work, far from it. But at least do your homework properly so you go in eyes wide open. Even worse is going in with the mentality of Iíll give it a shot and if not, Iíll bail. If SWA, Delta, whatever is your preferred choice, great, nothing wrong with that, but why make any employer spend all that time and effort if you have a good idea you are leaving?

robxjt27
04-19-2018, 06:38 AM
Have had several new hires leave for FedEx, Delta and SWA after starting class that no one is talking about.
You are just a negative individual. Every post.

BoilerUP
04-19-2018, 06:46 AM
I'm curious exactly how many is "several".

I know there was a 2015 hire that left for FedEx after a few months but haven't heard of any recently, and did hear a rumor about a guy that left for Delta before he completed training...have not heard of any newhires leaving for SWA.

There have also been at least three newhires in the past three years who left to go back to corporate.

May those newhires who left (voluntarily) end up somewhere they'll be happier, and may people who actually want to work for UPS get that opportunity.

PastV1by10
04-19-2018, 06:57 AM
I'm curious exactly how many is "several".

I know there was a 2015 hire that left for FedEx after a few months but haven't heard of any recently, and did hear a rumor about a guy that left for Delta before he completed training...have not heard of any newhires leaving for SWA.

There have also been at least three newhires in the past three years who left to go back to corporate.

May those newhires who left (voluntarily) end up somewhere they'll be happier, and may people who actually want to work for UPS get that opportunity.


Boiler thats a question you need to ask the union. Like the company the union doesn't really share that much information with the membership. Obi Wan Kenobi (Salty) knows whether he shares the info I am not sure.

Harrisburg
04-19-2018, 07:53 AM
and did hear a rumor about a guy that left for Delta before he completed training..

During the first week. Being 28 would be crazy to pass that up.

PastV1by10
04-19-2018, 09:25 AM
Just waiting for incoming for speaking the truth. Cue J Bell, 3, 2, 1 with his Diatribe and how he is thinking he is helping the membership with his constant union backed attacks at anyone who disagrees with the main stream propaganda.

CactusCrew
04-19-2018, 09:40 AM
There is no loyalty anymore. You are given the privilege to work for a great company, with great benefits, most likely the last Aviation job you will ever need, yet one slaps employer in the face after having spent valuable time and money to train you.

Not saying by any means UPS is a perfect place to work, far from it. But at least do your homework properly so you go in eyes wide open. Even worse is going in with the mentality of I’ll give it a shot and if not, I’ll bail. If SWA, Delta, whatever is your preferred choice, great, nothing wrong with that, but why make any employer spend all that time and effort if you have a good idea you are leaving?

Same employer slapped quite a few of us in the face (furloughs in ANC, displacements, sub-contracting jobs) ... how is that any different ?

No need to answer, its a rhetorical question. ;)

And while I agree that it is a privilege to works for UPS, I hope it wasn't just given to anyone. Most of us have earned the opportunity, with some luck and timing.

There's no loyalty on either side.

:)

Seatwarmer
04-19-2018, 02:35 PM
I thought I was the only one who thought Joe was always so defensive. You would think by his rants on the Bar and Grill he negotiated the contract all by himself. I know we have a great union, just didn't know it was perfect!

Just waiting for incoming for speaking the truth. Cue J Bell, 3, 2, 1 with his Diatribe and how he is thinking he is helping the membership with his constant union backed attacks at anyone who disagrees with the main stream propaganda.

767pilot
04-19-2018, 03:15 PM
UPS deserves whatever it gets as far as people taking the job and leaving. The furlough should have taught us one thing if nothing else, It's just business. Treating this place with any emotion at all will lead to disappointment. Be selfish, they are.

howardhughes8
04-19-2018, 04:28 PM
Anyone in the May 7th class send me a PM. Thx.

SaltyDog
04-20-2018, 07:29 AM
Have had several new hires leave for FedEx, Delta and SWA after starting class that no one is talking about.

For BoilerUp and to respond:
In a robust hiring environment, some pilots have more than one option. Timing as we all know is everything. We often grab the next rung up from current position and if offered the 'dream' job (family reasons, want to live in domicile, etc) we will keep moving. Happens at many airlines and UPS too. We have folks that come from legacies and Southwest for example, and others that get opportunity very early stages and leave for same. Reflection on individual pilot needs/wants and market opportunity. Same for the few who no show a class when offered as starting somewhere else. Fortunate timing for them to have two choices drop at same time.
Not many, but one here, and one there makes several :) Happened in early 90's for many airlines.
For 2018, so far 101 started. 101 still UPS.
2017 had several come and press on for various reasons.

PastV1by10
04-20-2018, 08:35 AM
For BoilerUp and to respond:
In a robust hiring environment, some pilots have more than one option. Timing as we all know is everything. We often grab the next rung up from current position and if offered the 'dream' job (family reasons, want to live in domicile, etc) we will keep moving. Happens at many airlines and UPS too. We have folks that come from legacies and Southwest for example, and others that get opportunity very early stages and leave for same. Reflection on individual pilot needs/wants and market opportunity. Same for the few who no show a class when offered as starting somewhere else. Fortunate timing for them to have two choices drop at same time.
Not many, but one here, and one there makes several :) Happened in early 90's for many airlines.
For 2018, so far 101 started. 101 still UPS.
2017 had several come and press on for various reasons.

How many and where did they go?

navigatro
04-20-2018, 08:56 AM
How many and where did they go?

more got fired than quit for another job.

and frankly, what does it matter? People do what's best for them and their family.

PastV1by10
04-21-2018, 07:43 AM
and frankly, what does it matter?

1. Some calming that this is the best job in the industry. Why are people leaving the greatest job after reaching the pinnacle?
2. What should be public knowledge is; I got a secret like everything else in the old boys club in Fern Valley. No transparency and if you say anything about it, cue union propaganda to discredit anyone questioning it.

Need term limits and ban the cronyism that is running our union these days. Matt S and John S have it right, leadership change is needed.

flyguy23
04-21-2018, 08:29 AM
1. Some calming that this is the best job in the industry. Why are people leaving the greatest job after reaching the pinnacle?
2. What should be public knowledge is; I got a secret like everything else in the old boys club in Fern Valley. No transparency and if you say anything about it, cue union propaganda to discredit anyone questioning it.

Need term limits and ban the cronyism that is running our union these days. Matt S and John S have it right, leadership change is needed.

I'd recommend you take some time and take your family on vacation, turn off your phone and forget this job exists for a while. It can't be healthy to be so worked up and miserable. This is one of the best jobs, and that's not really disputable. Everyone has their dream job for very personal reasons. You can't point to one job and say it's the pinnacle. I know southwest, delta, United, etc pilots that have come here. There are also pilots that have left for those places. The best job is very subjective and up to the individual.

PastV1by10
04-21-2018, 08:49 AM
It can't be healthy to be so worked up and miserable.

More labeling by union employee or ***** & Gripe regular? You don't know the first thing about my life so how can you pass judgement? Worry about your own please.

767pilot
04-21-2018, 11:42 AM
You don't know the first thing about my life so how can you pass judgement? Worry about your own please.

He said nothing about your life other than maybe you should step away from this stuff and enjoy it some more.

package puppy
04-21-2018, 01:48 PM
1. Some calming that this is the best job in the industry. Why are people leaving the greatest job after reaching the pinnacle?
2. What should be public knowledge is; I got a secret like everything else in the old boys club in Fern Valley. No transparency and if you say anything about it, cue union propaganda to discredit anyone questioning it.

Need term limits and ban the cronyism that is running our union these days. Matt S and John S have it right, leadership change is needed.

Do we really need term limits or is that the only way your less experienced, less qualified candidate could ever win is if a highly popular, experienced and effective leader gets out of your way?
Hmm? I served a term on the EB, worked twice as hard and earned way less money that I did just flying the line. Never again. In my 30 years here one thing is constant, thereís never a shortage of Monday Morning Quarterbacks with keyboard courage whoíve never completed a pass much less earned a first down. The ballot is the most effective term limit.

Harrisburg
04-22-2018, 12:21 PM
Do we really need term limits or is that the only way your less experienced, less qualified candidate could ever win is if a highly popular, experienced and effective leader gets out of your way?
.

I'm here to remind you that the current guy had zero experience before becoming v.prez then eventually prez. soon after the other dude was forced out behind the scenes.

PastV1by10
04-22-2018, 05:02 PM
I served a term on the EB, worked twice as hard and earned way less money that I did just flying the line. Never again. In my 30 years here one thing is constant, thereís never a shortage of Monday Morning Quarterbacks with keyboard courage whoíve never completed a pass much less earned a first down. The ballot is the most effective term limit.

Like J B, you remind us every time you post about your Union work. Also if your going use football analogies to ridicule those of us that dont serve and donít have a right to voice our concerns, please make sure you personally didnít commit any fumbles or interceptions to set the membership back a few points. As far as term limits go, yes we need them and there are many qualified individuals that could take over tomorrow without missing a step.

package puppy
04-22-2018, 07:58 PM
I'm here to remind you that the current guy had zero experience before becoming v.prez then eventually prez. soon after the other dude was forced out behind the scenes.

Youíre wrong, he had lots of experience on IPA Committees before holding an EB position.

package puppy
04-22-2018, 08:01 PM
Like J B, you remind us every time you post about your Union work. Also if your going use football analogies to ridicule those of us that dont serve and don’t have a right to voice our concerns, please make sure you personally didn’t commit any fumbles or interceptions to set the membership back a few points. As far as term limits go, yes we need them and there are many qualified individuals that could take over tomorrow without missing a step.

I agree there are many qualified members who could serve and do a great job for the membership however you’re missing the point completely when you suggest term limits are required for them to do so. Secondly, I don’t criticize those that don’t serve, just the ones who criticize those that do. There is a difference.

Harrisburg
04-22-2018, 11:25 PM
Youíre wrong, he had lots of experience on IPA Committees before holding an EB position.

Funny. I only remember him as the guy that pestered all the new hires to buy his MD-11 study guide.

Swedish Blender
04-23-2018, 02:14 AM
Secondly, I don’t criticize those that don’t serve, just the ones who criticize those that do. There is a difference.

So a dues paying member in good standing has no right to talk about things they may perceive as wrong. Guess you never complain about politicians either.

package puppy
04-23-2018, 04:56 AM
So a dues paying member in good standing has no right to talk about things they may perceive as wrong. Guess you never complain about politicians either.

Have you ever heard of constructive criticism?

package puppy
04-23-2018, 04:58 AM
So a dues paying member in good standing has no right to talk about things they may perceive as wrong. Guess you never complain about politicians either.

Of course they have the right. Just as the rest of us have the right to defend the EB against politically motivated cheap shots from the Peanut Gallery. Considering the only tool we have is unity, election relults are the best indicator of EB effectiveness.

package puppy
04-23-2018, 05:43 AM
Funny. I only remember him as the guy that pestered all the new hires to buy his MD-11 study guide.

You never miss an opportunity to demonstrate how mis-informed you are do you?

notadog
04-23-2018, 06:02 AM
All IPA members should download and read the current (and past) LM-2s.

(LM-2 is the financial statement that every labor union is required to file yearly with the Dept. of Labor. It is available on the DOL web site.)

Know where your dues are being spent.

The IPA is beginning to look more like the IBT every day.

This EB markets themselves very well, but are the members being served well?

howardhughes8
04-23-2018, 06:14 AM
Complete thread drift. Maybe start another thread to submit opinions on the state of the Unions? Back to original title....

BoilerUP
04-23-2018, 06:16 AM
The rhetorical question of ď...but are the members being served well?Ē is leading in nature.

Iím curious what specific issues some people believe the EB isnít Ďserving the membership wellí on.

PastV1by10
04-23-2018, 06:35 AM
I agree there are many qualified members who could serve and do a great job for the membership however youíre missing the point completely when you suggest term limits are required for them to do so. Secondly, I donít criticize those that donít serve, just the ones who criticize those that do. There is a difference.

Term limits should be mandatory, just look at how effective your government is. You sit in a position long enough you become part of the problem and not a solution. I am not advocating that J S become the new president whatsoever, just think that the Bob and his cronies need to step to the side and let others lead.

package puppy
04-23-2018, 06:53 AM
Term limits should be mandatory, just look at how effective your government is. You sit in a position long enough you become part of the problem and not a solution. I am not advocating that J S become the new president whatsoever, just think that the Bob and his cronies need to step to the side and let others lead.

If the majority of the membership agrees, that will happen. Last I looked, every other member’s vote counts just as much as yours or do you prefer a handicap for the next election?
Furthermore, have you discussed your concerns with an EB member or do you prefer to hide behind a keyboard?

Swedish Blender
04-23-2018, 10:11 AM
Of course they have the right. Just as the rest of us have the right to defend the EB against politically motivated cheap shots from the Peanut Gallery.

That's the problem. We all know some are obviously political. The B&G police seem to label everything they disagree with as political and having an angle. Finally, because someone doesn't agree, doesn't mean there's not a touch of truth to a post.

I'll just remain amused watching the same 30 pilots post.

brownie
04-23-2018, 10:39 AM
That's the problem. We all know some are obviously political. The B&G police seem to label everything they disagree with as political and having an angle. Finally, because someone doesn't agree, doesn't mean there's not a touch of truth to a post.

I'll just remain amused watching the same 30 pilots post.

More like 20😂😂

notadog
04-23-2018, 02:28 PM
The rhetorical question of ď...but are the members being served well?Ē is leading in nature.

Iím curious what specific issues some people believe the EB isnít Ďserving the membership wellí on.

Follow the money.

flyguy23
04-24-2018, 04:49 AM
I'm curious why some feel this is the place to discuss (argue) union business? These forums are mostly for potential new hires to learn about how things work here and to get some useful advice. It feels as though some are trying to create distrust in those that aren't on property yet, and that's not a healthy way to go about things. Union politics are best left in house and with peoples names attached. If you want to attack and make accusations, show your proof with your name on it and let's discuss. I'm not actively involved in our union and I'm certainly open to hearing all sides, but I think doing it here is rather unproductive and unprofessional.

767pilot
04-24-2018, 05:05 AM
More like 20😂😂

And it's different here?

brownie
04-24-2018, 06:48 AM
And it's different here?

Here is more like 10🤣🤣🤣🤣