Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




schwa
03-12-2018, 03:24 AM
For the JFK base, does reserve require coming in to the airport every day? Or is it more a mix of long an short call? Just depends on the season?

New to JB and used to live in CT. Considering going back to an area that's about a 1:45 drive from JFK in normal traffic. Or maybe White Plains or Stamford.


pilotpayne
03-12-2018, 04:44 AM
For the JFK base, does reserve require coming in to the airport every day? Or is it more a mix of long an short call? Just depends on the season?

New to JB and used to live in CT. Considering going back to an area that's about a 1:45 drive from JFK in normal traffic. Or maybe White Plains or Stamford.


It is a 2 hour call out.
There is a long call system but you wonít see it much, itís good in theory but never used.
There is no airport standby so you always stay home.
Summer will be busy while the fall is pretty much dead. Follow the school calendar and you will see when you will be busy.
Since you will be an FO and living in base itís not a bad deal(better staffed) and you will most likely never go past guarantee pay wise so plan on that.
The game most guys play if they live far out is to let the CS call go to voicemail get in the car and start driving and call them back in 15 mins gives you a little more time.

Since this is APC I should say, did you know other real airlines with better everything have bases in the same area so try to go there.

But WELCOME if you need anything just ask someone will always help you.

schwa
03-12-2018, 04:49 AM
It is a 2 hour call out.

There is a long call system but you wonít see it much, itís good in theory but never used.

There is no airport standby so you always stay home.

Summer will be busy while the fall is pretty much dead. Follow the school calendar and you will see when you will be busy.

Since you will be an FO and living in base itís not a bad deal(better staffed) and you will most likely never go past guarantee pay wise so plan on that.

The game most guys play if they live far out is to let the CS call go to voicemail get in the car and start driving and call them back in 15 mins gives you a little more time.



Since this is APC I should say, did you know other real airlines with better everything have bases in the same area so try to go there.



But WELCOME if you need anything just ask someone will always help you.



Thank you for providing real information before the obligatory second part of your post.

Iíll be wearing my lanyard with the rest of you.


atrdriver
03-12-2018, 06:20 AM
It is a 2 hour call out.
There is a long call system but you wonít see it much, itís good in theory but never used.
There is no airport standby so you always stay home.
Summer will be busy while the fall is pretty much dead. Follow the school calendar and you will see when you will be busy.
Since you will be an FO and living in base itís not a bad deal(better staffed) and you will most likely never go past guarantee pay wise so plan on that.
The game most guys play if they live far out is to let the CS call go to voicemail get in the car and start driving and call them back in 15 mins gives you a little more time.

Since this is APC I should say, did you know other real airlines with better everything have bases in the same area so try to go there.

But WELCOME if you need anything just ask someone will always help you.

Payne is absolutely correct.

Both AA and DL pay 35% more and don't have regional airline call out times like JB. The major airlines require you to report to the airport in a reasonable amount of time under normal driving conditions. CT would be no problem at all. At JB you will be stressing out to make your report time, all for the privilege of making less than a regional airline new hire.

pilotpayne
03-12-2018, 06:55 AM
Payne is absolutely correct.

Both AA and DL pay 35% more and don't have regional airline call out times like JB. The major airlines require you to report to the airport in a reasonable amount of time under normal driving conditions. CT would be no problem at all. At JB you will be stressing out to make your report time, all for the privilege of making less than a regional airline new hire.


But to be fair itís 2 hours traffic or not.
I donít think you get dinged if there is traffic.

atrdriver
03-12-2018, 07:03 AM
But to be fair it’s 2 hours traffic or not.
I don’t think you get dinged if there is traffic.

Not sure what you mean.

Other airlines = no problem if there is traffic and it takes an abnormally long time.....say 3 1/2 hours.. to get to the airport.

JB = 2 hours. Subject to DP/CPO retaliation for taking any longer.

queue
03-12-2018, 07:04 AM
Donít ever leave your home or crashpad unless you have documentation of your assigned pairing such as a FLICA assignment or an email. Sometimes they call several people to see who gets there first and wins the trip. Loosers have to pay the $50 in tolls, fuel costs, time involved, etc. They should pay you a small amount if you donít get the pairing but thatís after you jumped, and assuming they didnít make a ďdocumentation errorĒ resulting in no pay for you.

If you get evidence of being assigned to a pairing and they cancel you, then itís a broken pairing and the FOM obligations of a broken pairing apply.

By the way, you can no longer tax deduct the cost of your cell phones as an employer required business expense. JetBlue is not providing a company cell phone. You are subsidizing your employer while getting 40% less than your peers at the other major airlines.

The anti-employee dependability program applies if you donít answer the phone (or if you donít call back within 15? Mins).

galaxy flyer
03-12-2018, 07:11 AM
Donít ever leave your home or crashpad unless you have documentation of your assigned pairing such as a FLICA assignment or an email. Sometimes they call several people to see who gets there first and wins the trip. Loosers have to pay the $50 in tolls, fuel costs, time involved, etc. They should pay you a small amount if you donít get the pairing but thatís after you jumped, and assuming they didnít make a ďdocumentation errorĒ resulting in no pay for you.

If you get evidence of being assigned to a pairing and they cancel you, then itís a broken pairing and the FOM obligations of a broken pairing apply.

By the way, you can no longer tax deduct the cost of your cell phones as an employer required business expense. JetBlue is not providing a company cell phone. You are subsidizing your employer while getting 40% less than your peers at the other major airlines.

The anti-employee dependability program applies if you donít answer the phone (or if you donít call back within 15? Mins).

You were subsidizing your employer before, too, just the government (read: other taxpayers) was covering some of the cost.

GF

queue
03-12-2018, 07:18 AM
Not sure what you mean.

Other airlines = no problem if there is traffic and it takes an abnormally long time.....say 3 1/2 hours.. to get to the airport.

JB = 2 hours. Subject to DP/CPO retaliation for taking any longer.


Also, read the FOM carefully. If you get assigned to go to LGA, I think (?)you get 2+15. Use it. If they call and ask where you are if youíre enroute, even if you live across the street from LGA, your answer should be whatever the amount of time the FOM says. Donít be an enabler because they will not help you on a different day. Good will is a one way street at BJ. Donít do any favors for an employer that pays you 40% less and uses sophistacted legal work rule traps to exploit you.

queue
03-12-2018, 07:26 AM
You were subsidizing your employer before, too, just the government (read: other taxpayers) was covering some of the cost.

GF

True statement. I actually prefer not being able to tax deduct employer related expenses because it highlights our subsidies to our employer.

What law requires me to allow BJ to use my personal cell phone? Oh yeah, there isnít one.

For the record, some aviation employers have always provided pilots company cellphones.

queue
03-12-2018, 07:31 AM
I donít think you get dinged if there is traffic.

According to the Dependability Policy, you always get dinged. Read the FOM. There is no traffic exemption. I verified this with a CP. if they want to hang you with the DP, they can, regardless of what they ďsayĒ.

You above all.

AYLflyer
03-12-2018, 07:35 AM
Not sure what you mean.

Other airlines = no problem if there is traffic and it takes an abnormally long time.....say 3 1/2 hours.. to get to the airport.

JB = 2 hours. Subject to DP/CPO retaliation for taking any longer.

Do you have proof of this? I've been on reserve for a year and live about 90 min from driveway to terminal entrance. Numerous times on 2hr calls I've hit rush hour traffic and called them letting them know.

"Ok, just keep us updated on when you can get there".

No punishment or retaliation from the company.

I'm sure if you do it every single time you get called in you'll have some problems, but I've never once had an issue after getting stuck in traffic.

queue
03-12-2018, 07:50 AM
Do you have proof of this? I've been on reserve for a year and live about 90 min from driveway to terminal entrance. Numerous times on 2hr calls I've hit rush hour traffic and called them letting them know.

"Ok, just keep us updated on when you can get there".

No punishment or retaliation from the company.

I'm sure if you do it every single time you get called in you'll have some problems, but I've never once had an issue after getting stuck in traffic.

If they didnít mean to be so draconian, they wouldnít have written it in the FOM for you to read for yourself.

Please stop being a company apologist. These anecdotal arguments based on personal experiences are not truthful.

Mikeer50
03-12-2018, 07:55 AM
Do you have proof of this? I've been on reserve for a year and live about 90 min from driveway to terminal entrance. Numerous times on 2hr calls I've hit rush hour traffic and called them letting them know.

"Ok, just keep us updated on when you can get there".

No punishment or retaliation from the company.

I'm sure if you do it every single time you get called in you'll have some problems, but I've never once had an issue after getting stuck in traffic.

STOP. Thatís not the narrative weíre going for!!! If youíre 3 minutes late you get fired and publicly hung in the middle of T5..... the rules say you have 2 hours to report to JFK and 2.5 hours to LGA. In practice as long as you live within 1.5-2 hours drive you should be ok. You get an extra :15 by not immediately answering your phone so that could also help. If you are really running late you could always park in short term ($38 a day?) and save about 30 minutes. I was on reserve for over a year and live about 1:15 away. I probably cut it close once or twice. Our reserve rules are garbage and need to be improved, but if you can drive to work itís livable. Also, in the slow months find a hobby because you NEVER fly. Hope this helps.

queue
03-12-2018, 08:05 AM
STOP. Thatís not the narrative weíre going for!!! If youíre 3 minutes late you get fired and publicly hung in the middle of T5..... the rules say you have 2 hours to report to JFK and 2.5 hours to LGA. In practice as long as you live within 1.5-2 hours drive you should be ok. You get an extra :15 by not immediately answering your phone so that could also help. If you are really running late you could always park in short term ($38 a day?) and save about 30 minutes. I was on reserve for over a year and live about 1:15 away. I probably cut it close once or twice. Our reserve rules are garbage and need to be improved, but if you can drive to work itís livable. Also, in the slow months find a hobby because you NEVER fly. Hope this helps.

Oh yes, and letís not forget that you also have to check in using the JETCRW app which uses your GPS position. I believe they give you a 10 min grace period. It wonít let you check in unless you are within the geo-fence.

Since we donít have access to the softwareís source code, we donít know if the app is logging anything else.

nuball5
03-12-2018, 08:13 AM
STOP. Thatís not the narrative weíre going for!!! If youíre 3 minutes late you get fired and publicly hung in the middle of T5..... the rules say you have 2 hours to report to JFK and 2.5 hours to LGA. In practice as long as you live within 1.5-2 hours drive you should be ok. You get an extra :15 by not immediately answering your phone so that could also help. If you are really running late you could always park in short term ($38 a day?) and save about 30 minutes. I was on reserve for over a year and live about 1:15 away. I probably cut it close once or twice. Our reserve rules are garbage and need to be improved, but if you can drive to work itís livable. Also, in the slow months find a hobby because you NEVER fly. Hope this helps.

It's not necessarily an extra 15 mins, it's whenever a scheduler takes you off hold and answers your call and thus establishing "positive contact". I've had it where I've been on hold for 30 mins, and effectively made it a 2:45 min callout.

queue
03-12-2018, 08:20 AM
It's not necessarily an extra 15 mins, it's whenever a scheduler takes you off hold and answers your call and thus establishing "positive contact". I've had it where I've been on hold for 30 mins, and effectively made it a 2:45 min callout.

Oh yes... ďpositive contactĒ is not explicitly defined in the FOM and has been the historical subject of ďinterpretationĒ, depending on who you are. I canít say more but people can tell you in person.

Pilot417
03-12-2018, 09:02 AM
Oh yes... ďpositive contactĒ is not explicitly defined in the FOM and has been the historical subject of ďinterpretationĒ, depending on who you are. I canít say more but people can tell you in person.

Whoa... I was told it was 2 hours from the first time they called you regardless if you answered. I never answer, I always call back with in 15 minutes if they're only giving me the 2 hours. However, Ive been on RSV for about 7 months and rarely do they give you 2 hours notice, you usually get more of a heads up. I think I've had 2 "hurry up and get to JFK" assignments in the past 7 months, both times they told me to park in short term and expense it.

queue
03-12-2018, 09:09 AM
Whoa... I was told it was 2 hours from the first time they called you regardless if you answered. I never answer, I always call back with in 15 minutes if they're only giving me the 2 hours. However, Ive been on RSV for about 7 months and rarely do they give you 2 hours notice, you usually get more of a heads up. I think I've had 2 "hurry up and get to JFK" assignments in the past 7 months, both times they told me to park in short term and expense it.

Itís not explicitly defined, but I too have heard and believed the clock starts from when THEY call you. So itís 2+00 to JFK and 2+15 or 2+30 to LGA (not sure on LGA but itís longer). I guess you can add 10 minutes for the app geolocation checkin too... again... not totally defined.

pilotpayne
03-12-2018, 09:21 AM
Itís not explicitly defined, but I too have heard and believed the clock starts from when THEY call you. So itís 2+00 to JFK and 2+15 or 2+30 to LGA (not sure on LGA but itís longer). I guess you can add 10 minutes for the app geolocation checkin too... again... not totally defined.

Man you are all over the place. You reject what people tell you as not truthful and their personal experience does not count (which is interesting) Than you write this where you ďhearĒ something so it must be true. But you have reserve guys telling you the opposite and you reject it. Itís there it says 2 hours, if there is an unforeseen issue you are to contact CS.

Back to your other point WE KNOW THE RULES ARE SUBJECT TO INTERPRETATION AND NOT EXPLICIT. Thatís why we voted for a cba.
Even still while hopefully being clearer they will still be interpreted.....fly it and grieve it.

queue
03-12-2018, 09:57 AM
Man you are all over the place. You reject what people tell you as not truthful and their personal experience does not count (which is interesting) Than you write this where you ďhearĒ something so it must be true. But you have reserve guys telling you the opposite and you reject it. Itís there it says 2 hours, if there is an unforeseen issue you are to contact CS.

Back to your other point WE KNOW THE RULES ARE SUBJECT TO INTERPRETATION AND NOT EXPLICIT. Thatís why we voted for a cba.
Even still while hopefully being clearer they will still be interpreted.....fly it and grieve it.

Of course i reject what they are saying. The FOM explicitly says otherwise.

The only thing i have a belief about is positive contact, which is not explicitly defined.

The policies are always written vaguely so it gets through people who don't place emphasis on detail while benefiting the company whenever it pleases them. A good contract leaves as little room for interpretation as possible. Like I've said before, I hope you guys don't vote for a substandard contract with vague, undefined clauses under excuses such as "it's our first contract". I guarantee you contract flaws are by design. Don't fall for it like previous generations have fallen for the falsehoods of the FOM. The FOM exists to pacify you under the facade of being rules. They are smoke and mirrors. They are not binding. Remember 3A.

I would prefer a highly detailed contract where each one of us can individually sue the employer. If you have a grievance process you've already lost because it ends in arbitration, which is not as good as individual lawsuits or class action lawsuits. Don't believe me? Look at where you are now....

captsurf
03-12-2018, 10:44 AM
Keep in mind, that check-in on our JETCRW app is geolocated, and if you plan on using company-paid parking at long term parking in lot 9, factor in up to another 30 minutes. We have a shuttle that runs from the lot to T5 every 30 minutes. And if you plan it right you can go from parking your car to walking into the terminal in 5 minutes. Miss that shuttle 1 minute, next airtrain may not be for 10 minutes, and those take 15-20 to get to T5. That 2hr commute just turned into 2:30. Iíve never had to call them and tell them Iím gonna be late so I canít attest to getting dinged or not if your miss check-in. I live 0:30-1:30 east of JFK depending on traffic, and Iíve been given min callout once in 5 months on reserve. Your mileage may vary. Sometimes during day-trips if Iím gonna hit rush hour traffic Iíll go straight to the short term garage across from T5 and just walk over. But anything more than a daytrip and it gets veeeeery expensive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pilotpayne
03-12-2018, 11:04 AM
Of course i reject what they are saying. The FOM explicitly says otherwise.

The only thing i have a belief about is positive contact, which is not explicitly defined.

The policies are always written vaguely so it gets through people who don't place emphasis on detail while benefiting the company whenever it pleases them. A good contract leaves as little room for interpretation as possible. Like I've said before, I hope you guys don't vote for a substandard contract with vague, undefined clauses under excuses such as "it's our first contract". I guarantee you contract flaws are by design. Don't fall for it like previous generations have fallen for the falsehoods of the FOM. The FOM exists to pacify you under the facade of being rules. They are smoke and mirrors. They are not binding. Remember 3A.

I would prefer a highly detailed contract where each one of us can individually sue the employer. If you have a grievance process you've already lost because it ends in arbitration, which is not as good as individual lawsuits or class action lawsuits. Don't believe me? Look at where you are now....

Do you pay Alpa dues because what they are going for and what you want are very different things. As to the rest you picked the right name Q. Just like the TV character you pop up out of nowhere and are completely annoying. And yes Payne fits me well.

Gearswinger
03-12-2018, 11:46 AM
Re positive contact, I NEVER. answer my phone when they call. I call them back 14 minutes after they call and tell them Iíll need a 2hr callout. Itís always been met with a show time of 2hr after Iíve sat on hold and CS picks up the phone. Maybe Iíve just been lucky, I doubt it, but maybe.

nuball5
03-12-2018, 12:04 PM
Re positive contact, I NEVER. answer my phone when they call. I call them back 14 minutes after they call and tell them Iíll need a 2hr callout. Itís always been met with a show time of 2hr after Iíve sat on hold and CS picks up the phone. Maybe Iíve just been lucky, I doubt it, but maybe.

Same for me. That's how it's supposed to be done. Not our problem that we get put on hold for 30+ minutes cause scheduling is short-staffed. I'm under no obligation to check JetCRW or Flica at home to see my showtime unless it's an Irop Level 2. I also got placed back on short-call last month after they assigned me a trip and forgot to call a legal reserve that started 1 hour prior to me. Always call them back 15 mins after, take a look and make sure they assigned it to the correct person.This has been happening a lot more recently.

queue
03-12-2018, 12:27 PM
Do you pay Alpa dues because what they are going for and what you want are very different things. As to the rest you picked the right name Q. Just like the TV character you pop up out of nowhere and are completely annoying. And yes Payne fits me well.

I pay ALPA dues because I have an irrational belief in their ultimate good intentions. They do require guidance every now and then.

Also, I am honored to annoy you.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1SmLHecAlDg/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEXCNACELwBSFryq4qpAwkIARUAAIhCGAE=&rs=AOn4CLCBq7gWvWtreUCLiX9-ni8HICD6BA
(https://anonym.to/?https://youtu.be/1SmLHecAlDg)

https://anonym.to/?https://youtu.be/1SmLHecAlDg


You amuse me.

AYLflyer
03-12-2018, 12:55 PM
Please stop being a company apologist. These anecdotal arguments based on personal experiences are not truthful.


Jesus effin Christ, enough of this BS.

I'm a company apologist because I asked a question and shared what has happened to me on a number of occasions??

I drive to BOS. The Chelsea bridge is out of my control and more than once I've gotten there with plenty of time to spare, only to get delayed beyond my 2hr call because of it. I've had the same happen when an accident shut down the pike.

While I'm as annoyed as everyone else about our CBA situation, the company has never threatened me for giving them a heads up that my commute is at a standstill because of an accident, or the stupid bridge is up. If that's being an apologist then some of you guys are really living in a different world.

Duksrule
03-12-2018, 02:23 PM
In a year on reserve I was called one time with a ďhow fast can you be thereĒ trip. All other trips were assigned well in advance of the two hour time frame. Not saying that youíll have the same experience but that was mine.

Also I will say that you may never know if you are ďdingedĒ or not. I have one Out of Position on my record and no one ever said anything to me. Maybe I wasnt dinged on it but Iím sure I was and it just went into a file. Also keep in mind a dependability review is for several things. You could have X amount of sick call outs and pow one late show puts you over the line.

I am not a company apologist FUPM but I feel like even if you had a DR unless you are a turd that they want to get rid of for some other reason then youíll come out of it with your job.

say again
03-12-2018, 02:28 PM
Jesus effin Christ, enough of this BS.

I'm a company apologist because I asked a question and shared what has happened to me on a number of occasions??

I drive to BOS. The Chelsea bridge is out of my control and more than once I've gotten there with plenty of time to spare, only to get delayed beyond my 2hr call because of it. I've had the same happen when an accident shut down the pike.

While I'm as annoyed as everyone else about our CBA situation, the company has never threatened me for giving them a heads up that my commute is at a standstill because of an accident, or the stupid bridge is up. If that's being an apologist then some of you guys are really living in a different world.

That's been my experience as well

atrdriver
03-12-2018, 04:13 PM
Jesus effin Christ, enough of this BS.

I'm a company apologist because I asked a question and shared what has happened to me on a number of occasions??

I drive to BOS. The Chelsea bridge is out of my control and more than once I've gotten there with plenty of time to spare, only to get delayed beyond my 2hr call because of it. I've had the same happen when an accident shut down the pike.

While I'm as annoyed as everyone else about our CBA situation, the company has never threatened me for giving them a heads up that my commute is at a standstill because of an accident, or the stupid bridge is up. If that's being an apologist then some of you guys are really living in a different world.

Apologist is extreme.

My original point was that other airlines have written in their reserve rules a lot of leeway for reserves to report for their assignments. JB has written in very rigid reserve rules with a short call out time.

Just because you haven't been disciplined for being late doesn't change the fact that you CAN, whereas at other airlines in New York CANNOT discipline their pilots for taking 3-4 hours. Do you trust our management to be forever benevolent? Just trying to give the OP some context and let him know there may be a time where a CT commute is inadvisable at JB due to management actions and the same commute would be no sweat at AA/DL. We don't know when they will flip the switch. AA/DL can't flip the switch outside of negotiations.

Good luck and keep those apps updated.

schwa
03-12-2018, 06:25 PM
It is a 2 hour call out.

There is a long call system but you wonít see it much, itís good in theory but never used.

There is no airport standby so you always stay home.

Summer will be busy while the fall is pretty much dead. Follow the school calendar and you will see when you will be busy.

Since you will be an FO and living in base itís not a bad deal(better staffed) and you will most likely never go past guarantee pay wise so plan on that.

The game most guys play if they live far out is to let the CS call go to voicemail get in the car and start driving and call them back in 15 mins gives you a little more time.



Since this is APC I should say, did you know other real airlines with better everything have bases in the same area so try to go there.



But WELCOME if you need anything just ask someone will always help you.



Thanks for the bit of real info before the obligatory statements. Will be wearing my lanyard with the rest of you.

slimothy
03-12-2018, 07:12 PM
Jesus effin Christ, enough of this BS.

I'm a company apologist because I asked a question and shared what has happened to me on a number of occasions??

I drive to BOS. The Chelsea bridge is out of my control and more than once I've gotten there with plenty of time to spare, only to get delayed beyond my 2hr call because of it. I've had the same happen when an accident shut down the pike.

While I'm as annoyed as everyone else about our CBA situation, the company has never threatened me for giving them a heads up that my commute is at a standstill because of an accident, or the stupid bridge is up. If that's being an apologist then some of you guys are really living in a different world.

I think the point is that during a labor disputes, particularly as it becomes more contentious, you need to look at these things like a lawyer. You and I have both been late, out of position, etc, and nothing happened, but we are at the mercy of the company. We survived by their grace, not by contractual obligation.

queue
03-12-2018, 07:53 PM
I think the point is that during a labor disputes, particularly as it becomes more contentious, you need to look at these things like a lawyer. You and I have both been late, out of position, etc, and nothing happened, but we are at the mercy of the company. We survived by their grace, not by contractual obligation.

And this is precisely my point. While characterizing current management as "benevolent" might be a bit too nice... generally they could be attacking B6 pilots a lot more. It's been my observation that on a practical basis, they simply don't have enough time to enforce their FOM policies. That's why most people don't get in trouble. However, one day, they will commit to a scorched earth policy where they will make examples of anyone for any reason. It's happened before elsewhere so logically it can happen at BJ. Right now they seem to use it on a select few. However, as a professional, I am not tolerant of operating under such disrespectful policies.

I stress again, we must all be lawyers and ensure any contract is 100% what we want, or else reject it. Vague language open to interpretation, improbable yet possible scenarios (ill defined IROP language), stiff penalties for deviation (e.g. the dependability policy's "can lead up to and include termination"), and no contractual protections (e.g. get out of jail free card if the AirTrain is down) are all automatic rejection criteria for me. I refuse to accept any false arguments for substandard contracts.

Let me provide one example... the "commuting policy" in the FOM. We all believe that following the commuting policy protects you in some way. In truth, it doesn't. If you miss a trip (OOP, family emergency, missed trip, etc.), it always can be used against you via the Dependability Policy. I am simply going by what is written in black and white. Even if you follow the policy to the letter, that will not help your case if they wish to throw the DP book at you for whatever reason. It has already been stated by CP's that the commuter policy is simply a "guideline" for you to help plan your commute. The DP can be used against you even if you're at JFK and the AirTrain breaks down (which happens daily). Legally speaking, there is no scenario where it's not your fault. You are always liable for not showing up and the dependability policy has no exemptions. Other airlines have black and white exemptions that DO protect you against automatic assumption of guilt.

pugpilot
03-12-2018, 08:00 PM
https://preview.ibb.co/fs61f7/Screen_Shot_2018_03_12_at_10_58_11_PM.png (https://ibb.co/dKVSL7)

"plan your commute accordingly"

hahahaha

You want me to get to work - find a real positive space ticket.

queue
03-12-2018, 08:02 PM
Also I will say that you may never know if you are ďdingedĒ or not. I have one Out of Position on my record and no one ever said anything to me. Maybe I wasnt dinged on it but Iím sure I was and it just went into a file. Also keep in mind a dependability review is for several things. You could have X amount of sick call outs and pow one late show puts you over the line.

The CPs have a bigger "God's view" in FLICA they can use to quickly eyeball red colored timelines. If you get on their radar, they look in there to see if there's an eyeballed unusual amount of red. It's 100% subjective. If you read the dependability policy, you will see that it's not very defined insofar as hard numbers. It's simply a tool of targeted persecution for troublemakers.

So yes, it stays in your file always. Computers have a practically infinite amount of memory to store anything about you indefinitely.

Again, I vehemently oppose anything that disrespects us as professionals.

queue
03-12-2018, 08:06 PM
https://preview.ibb.co/fs61f7/Screen_Shot_2018_03_12_at_10_58_11_PM.png (https://ibb.co/dKVSL7)

"plan your commute accordingly"

hahahaha

You want me to get to work - find a real positive space ticket.


Hahahahahahaaa..... yeah, and according to the DP, it's your fault for missing the trip.

Just wait until they have software put up red alerts whenever someone has X amount of OOPs with automatic penalties. Right now we're lucky because the CPs just have bigger fish to fry but some day punishment will be via automatic computerized algorithms. We already have GPS based check-ins!

pugpilot
03-12-2018, 08:14 PM
Hahahahahahaaa..... yeah, and according to the DP, it's your fault for missing the trip.

Just wait until they have software put up red alerts whenever someone has X amount of OOPs with automatic penalties. Right now we're lucky because the CPs just have bigger fish to fry but some day punishment will be via automatic computerized algorithms. We already have GPS based check-ins!

not even a trip I can plan around...gotta wait for the DRO to see what garbage they try and give me. I'm guessing I'll get a 5am RAP.

Our operational "necessities" are not my problem or concern.

queue
03-12-2018, 08:22 PM
not even a trip I can plan around...gotta wait for the DRO to see what garbage they try and give me. I'm guessing I'll get a 5am RAP.

Our operational "necessities" are not my problem or concern.

I'm cloudy on my reserve FOM policy... but, don't you have to be available at 0200 EST on the 1st day of reserve? I seem to remember that FAA legal "rest" is on your time, so that you are available to be used right away rather than including your FAA 10 hours during the reserve footprint. So again, I think we are subsidizing the operation. I seem to remember that airlines like AA start reserve at 1000 Local for this reason... the 10 hr rest is built-into the reserve day rather than before it (on your time).

pugpilot
03-12-2018, 08:49 PM
I'm cloudy on my reserve FOM policy... but, don't you have to be available at 0200 EST on the 1st day of reserve? I seem to remember that FAA legal "rest" is on your time, so that you are available to be used right away rather than including your FAA 10 hours during the reserve footprint. So again, I think we are subsidizing the operation. I seem to remember that airlines like AA start reserve at 1000 Local for this reason... the 10 hr rest is built-into the reserve day rather than before it (on your time).

I know that on most days, they have someone on 0300 SCL. They'll probably be stacking the 3/14 reserve to have a lot of 5 and 6am Short Calls to get things running after all of the cancellations on 3/13.

FUPM

hyperboy
03-13-2018, 10:15 AM
https://preview.ibb.co/fs61f7/Screen_Shot_2018_03_12_at_10_58_11_PM.png (https://ibb.co/dKVSL7)

"plan your commute accordingly"

hahahaha

You want me to get to work - find a real positive space ticket.

"So you're saying there is a chance?!".....:D

DrivinToFlyin
03-19-2018, 06:28 PM
For the JFK base, does reserve require coming in to the airport every day? Or is it more a mix of long an short call? Just depends on the season?

New to JB and used to live in CT. Considering going back to an area that's about a 1:45 drive from JFK in normal traffic. Or maybe White Plains or Stamford.

With JB 13 years. Lived in Norwalk and did 3 years reserve by choice. Back then (2010-2013) long call was given out more and didnít fly too much. Now live in the Southbury/Woodbury area and still bid reserve a few times a year. Itís 90 miles to JFK. Itís tight even with no traffic. But over the years I have found that the 2 hour callout is not very frequent. Lots of trips assigned the day before and also have bid for trips to fly on reserve in order to have some sort of schedule. If you live in Stamford or White Plains it will work. But your mileage may vary based on seniority on reserve. Weekend reserve flys just about the time. Weekday reserve is a bit easier.....

schwa
03-20-2018, 04:58 PM
With JB 13 years. Lived in Norwalk and did 3 years reserve by choice. Back then (2010-2013) long call was given out more and didnít fly too much. Now live in the Southbury/Woodbury area and still bid reserve a few times a year. Itís 90 miles to JFK. Itís tight even with no traffic. But over the years I have found that the 2 hour callout is not very frequent. Lots of trips assigned the day before and also have bid for trips to fly on reserve in order to have some sort of schedule. If you live in Stamford or White Plains it will work. But your mileage may vary based on seniority on reserve. Weekend reserve flys just about the time. Weekday reserve is a bit easier.....

Thanks. Actually used to be pretty near there. Southbury Stop & Shop was my grocery store. "Not very frequent" sounds good, though in my first few months I don't think I want to get marked unavailable.

Bozo the pilot
03-21-2018, 05:26 AM
Thanks. Actually used to be pretty near there. Southbury Stop & Shop was my grocery store. "Not very frequent" sounds good, though in my first few months I don't think I want to get marked unavailable.

Really hope you get to a real airline so that the B6 BS wont be a factor.
Good luck man.

DrivinToFlyin
03-21-2018, 04:44 PM
But to be fair itís 2 hours traffic or not.
I donít think you get dinged if there is traffic.

Correct. Iíve been late a few times. Iíve called them and they just said get there when you can. Iíve found that if they call you for a 2 hour callout something is already screwed up and you being ďlateĒ ainít gonna matter as the flight your going to fly is already behind.