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View Full Version : ATL Street Captain?


spaceboy30000
03-15-2018, 04:24 PM
I'm considering an offer from Skywest, starting in the next few weeks.

I've got a few thousand 121 PIC hours in CRJs, so it sounds like the "street captain" option is also likely available.

ATL would definitely be my preferred base, since I live around here.

I know lots of things are "in flux" right now, but I could use some experienced opinions on life as a new hire Skywest ATL F/O vs. an ATL new-hire captain. On the good side, I wouldn't be commuting, but I still wouldn't want to be worked to death either, (especially if I went left seat and might just be stuck at the bad end of the seniority list for a long time). Maybe just staying right seat for a little while might be better for quality of life...?

Would it be a better idea to try for maybe PSA and see if I could get that Knoxville base or maybe Charlotte? I'm really trying to avoid any ridiculous commutes if I can...

Having previously flown for the regionals for a few years, I know that "the grass is always greener" on the other side of the fence. With that said, can anyone try to give me any sort of knowledgeable opinion on this?

FWIW, I'm hoping to get current and maybe jump to a major in a year or two, so I guess I am looking at this as a relatively shorter than longer situation.

Any informed insight (or best guesses?) would be appreciated.

Thanks!


amcnd
03-15-2018, 05:44 PM
Its a Jr base. There are only a handful with transfers bids in for ATL. We still have lots of growth and movement the next year. Its not like your asking for SLC... Atlanta is very attainable...

Check Complete
03-15-2018, 10:59 PM
I would definitely look somewhere else. If you came to SkyWest as a Captain you would be on reserve forever. SkyWest reserve is its own special version of hell, and just when it couldnít get any worse, last week it did.

I pretty sure if you came here and sat on reserve for very long you would probably just get out of aviation again. And then thereís the option the company could send you to LGA!


zondaracer
03-16-2018, 02:27 AM
Iím just curious, but which regional has great reserve rules? Are there other regionals that are upgrading new hires where you wonít be on the bottom of the seniority list?

SirLurksalot
03-16-2018, 03:05 AM
Iím just curious, but which regional has great reserve rules? Are there other regionals that are upgrading new hires where you wonít be on the bottom of the seniority list?

Well since you asked edv has some long call rsv, limitations on ready rsv, min 12 days off/mo for reserves, ability to commute in during reserve callout time, and ability to volunteer for ready on day 1 which makes it possible to come in later on day 1 as well. Thats off the top of my head. Oh, and new hires as atl captains! Does skw share or beat any of those items that you know of?

amcnd
03-16-2018, 06:21 AM
Well since you asked edv has some long call rsv, limitations on ready rsv, min 12 days off/mo for reserves, ability to commute in during reserve callout time, and ability to volunteer for ready on day 1 which makes it possible to come in later on day 1 as well. Thats off the top of my head. Oh, and new hires as atl captains! Does skw share or beat any of those items that you know of?

Endeavor i another good option for ATL. But they stoped hiring tell fall and by then more FOís will be qualified for upgrade.. so its a gamble waiting for that. Good news is come here and you can leave anytime if you dont like it. No one is stopping you... (just please be sure to explain why on your exit interview (paper form) so you can help the rest of us)

zondaracer
03-16-2018, 06:34 AM
Well since you asked edv has some long call rsv, limitations on ready rsv, min 12 days off/mo for reserves, ability to commute in during reserve callout time, and ability to volunteer for ready on day 1 which makes it possible to come in later on day 1 as well. Thats off the top of my head. Oh, and new hires as atl captains! Does skw share or beat any of those items that you know of?

SkyWest has long call, and min 12 days off for reserves. The other items sound like an improvement over OO reserve. OO has proferring, but the rollout of that has some bugs and is being addressed. Also, OO reserves can swap/trade reserve days now.

trip
03-16-2018, 07:24 AM
SkyWest has long call, and min 12 days off for reserves. The other items sound like an improvement over OO reserve. OO has proferring, but the rollout of that has some bugs and is being addressed. Also, OO reserves can swap/trade reserve days now.

Long call in name only. You will be first assigned and the rest of your days converted to short.
What has been done to address the proffering loophole?

zondaracer
03-16-2018, 07:41 AM
Long call in name only. You will be first assigned and the rest of your days converted to short.
What has been done to address the proffering loophole?

FAR 117 and FAA interpretation letter has been quoted and brought up to the company. If you require a pilot to acknowledge a trip assignment on their off day, then they have to be considered on duty.

WesternSkies
03-16-2018, 08:09 AM
Expand more in ďbeing able to commute in during reserve call out timeĒ. You can do that here if your commute is less than 2 hours, but you must mean that you have some sort of program?

Ready has gotten better over of the years with added protections. The problem with ready is that it exists.

This latest proffering interpretation by TG, is really disheartening. Then the email yesterday. The man is not to be trusted. He reads like a poser mimicking someone he admires. If he isnít filled with self doubt he then is delusional because he is losing the crowd.

trip
03-16-2018, 09:52 AM
FAR 117 and FAA interpretation letter has been quoted and brought up to the company. If you require a pilot to acknowledge a trip assignment on their off day, then they have to be considered on duty.

They're meeting tomorrow, will this interpretation will be brought up? The problem I see is it's just a day off until your required rest prior to a duty period. The company can do whatever they please with your day off, they can also contact you one time during your required rest per the FAA.
I'm sure the legal dept has looked this over with our inspectors before implementation.
The biggest frustration is we (SAPA) wrote this and proposed it.

Check Complete
03-16-2018, 11:08 AM
SkyWest has long call, and min 12 days off for reserves. The other items sound like an improvement over OO reserve. OO has proferring, but the rollout of that has some bugs and is being addressed. Also, OO reserves can swap/trade reserve days now.

This has got to be the world's first and only semi positive post about SkyWest reserve.

It is the worst job you will have ever had!

We have pilots that have had to receive counseling for both depression and anger because of the absolutely atrocious QOL while on reserve.

About the only positive aspect of reserve is gives you an incentive to get out of SkyWest, it's that bad.

zondaracer
03-16-2018, 12:28 PM
Lol honestly Iíve had worse jobs than commuting to reserve at SkyWest. Being based at home and on reserve isnít that bad except the lack of income compared to being a line holder is a big downside. The other is lack of control of your schedule and being attached to the phone. Commuting to reserve is not fun.

All the regionals have reserve and they all seem to suck. The new rules at Endeavor seem to be the best, but when have you heard of someone at a different regional saying that reserve there is awesome?

NewGuy01
03-16-2018, 12:45 PM
SkyWest reserve was much better than any 135 or 91 job Iíve ever been at.

Thatís not saying much though.

I recently stopped bidding reserve when the new proffering system rolled out because it seemed like it was a mess. I also couldnít bid for a specific long call line.

To be fair if you are an hour or less from ATL it isnít that bad, but Iíd expect to be flying a lot if you are a junior CRJ captain.


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ImPilot I Fly
03-16-2018, 06:23 PM
SkyWest reserve was much better than any 135 or 91 job Iíve ever been at.

Thatís not saying much though.

I recently stopped bidding reserve when the new proffering system rolled out because it seemed like it was a mess. I also couldnít bid for a specific long call line.

To be fair if you are an hour or less from ATL it isnít that bad, but Iíd expect to be flying a lot if you are a junior CRJ captain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reserve coverage in ATL is pretty good. No open time at all for the whole month. Iíve been sitting in a hotel for a couple days. About to go stir crazy. Blocked 25 hours in the first half of March. Second half looks to be much slower. Going to have to find some new hobbies.

WesternSkies
03-16-2018, 06:31 PM
SkyWest reserve was much better than any 135 or 91 job Iíve ever been at.

Thatís not saying much though.


Agreed.

In-base Reserve at OO felt like a part time job compared to my previous flying jobs.
But getting jerked around got old eventually.

Flymeaway
03-17-2018, 09:55 AM
If you can consistently get to security in ATL in an hour and a half, reserve at OO wouldnít be that bad. Itís not as good as a line, but I have to think it would be better than commuting to reserve elsewhere. At least you arenít paying for 2 places to live and your days off arenít spent getting back and forth to work.

Youíll be low man on the totem pole as a street captain anywhere, but at least at OO, no one else wants to go to ATL, so while your company seniority will be low, your base seniority wonít be as low as it would be otherwise.

That said, obviously 9E would be much better if you can get a decent class date. Maybe youíd get bumped up in line if they know youíll upgrade right away. I highly recommend avoiding commuting to reserve, if at all possible, especially since as a street captain, youíll likely be on reserve for quite awhile.

spaceboy30000
03-17-2018, 11:33 AM
Thanks for the input, everyone. I'm hopefully getting an overall picture of what I'm considering. It sounds like a conservative approach would be to just stay right seat for a little bit, and then see for myself how the ATL base is working before volunteering for upgrade and getting stuck at the bottom of that list for a long time....

wrxpilot
03-17-2018, 11:42 AM
Reserve is tolerable the first year. After the second year, it starts getting annoying. For me, the third year was when I started become angry and bitter, which is NOT my personality. Yes, itís better than 135. But thatís about all I can say about it.

Life as a lineholder is MUCH better, and really is like being at a different airline. I would still rather drive to work as a reserve than commute to a line, but it truly does get to you after awhile.

E6BAV8R
03-23-2018, 05:57 PM
Reserve is tolerable the first year. After the second year, it starts getting annoying. For me, the third year was when I started become angry and bitter, which is NOT my personality. Yes, it’s better than 135. But that’s about all I can say about it.

Life as a lineholder is MUCH better, and really is like being at a different airline. I would still rather drive to work as a reserve than commute to a line, but it truly does get to you after awhile.

About how long is it currently as an ATL new-hire FO on reserve before being able to hold a line?

Current rumor seems to be that some 700s might be heading to ATL.

GuardMafia
03-23-2018, 11:53 PM
About how long is it currently as an ATL new-hire FO on reserve before being able to hold a line?

Current rumor seems to be that some 700s might be heading to ATL.



Piggybacking off of this, what is the likely hood of getting ATL out of training as a new FO.

flysooner9
03-24-2018, 01:02 AM
Judging from their base seniority on the recruitment website Iíd say itís pretty easy by the end of IOE if not right away.

Mooneyguy
04-01-2018, 08:23 AM
What are the typical lines in atl, 3 , 4 , or 5 day?
How many days off between?
And reserve, how many days on and off between?
Whatís the flying like on reserve, is it easy to pick up overnights, or should you plan on living in a crash pad?
Thanks

amcnd
04-01-2018, 08:30 AM
Should be lots of street captains the next few months. Only 15 takers out of 40 openings for Captains on the bid that just closed. They are calling FOís asking if they would take another domicile for Upgrade..

Oma4545
04-01-2018, 09:46 AM
Should be lots of street captains the next few months. Only 15 takers out of 40 openings for Captains on the bid that just closed. They are calling FOís asking if they would take another domicile for Upgrade..

I donít believe that is true.

trip
04-01-2018, 09:57 AM
Should be lots of street captains the next few months. Only 15 takers out of 40 openings for Captains on the bid that just closed. They are calling FOís asking if they would take another domicile for Upgrade..

Answer> absolutely as long as you will provide four PS round trips per bid.
Problem solved at minimum cost.

amcnd
04-01-2018, 10:01 AM
I donít believe that is true.

Look at the bid awards. Count how many FOís upgrading awards. Then look at the DVR and count up the open positions on the bid... 15 awarded. 40 openings on the bid. And they have been calling people..

word302
04-01-2018, 11:49 AM
Look at the bid awards. Count how many FOís upgrading awards. Then look at the DVR and count up the open positions on the bid... 15 awarded. 40 openings on the bid. And they have been calling people..

Several people who claim they are qualified didnít get the bid. Something else is going on here.

hawk21
04-01-2018, 12:34 PM
Piggybacking off of this, what is the likely hood of getting ATL out of training as a new FO.

99.99% chance you can hold it by the time IOE is done.

35Right
04-01-2018, 03:26 PM
What is the reason for people not wanting to voluntarily upgrade? Dont want to lose their relative bidding seniority?

amcnd
04-01-2018, 03:36 PM
What is the reason for people not wanting to voluntarily upgrade? Dont want to lose their relative bidding seniority?

Vacation, good schedule living in base, family obligations, to many to list. Im sure the company computer for tracking time is off from what pilots log. And its only as good at what you told them for flight time when you go hired..

Rocksteady
04-01-2018, 03:48 PM
Look at the bid awards. Count how many FOís upgrading awards. Then look at the DVR and count up the open positions on the bid... 15 awarded. 40 openings on the bid. And they have been calling people..

This is not accurate. I along with about 25 others were not awarded upgrade. VD said they decided to scale back classes, no explaination why. However if you look at attrition for the month it doesnít take a rocket scientist to figure out that with 38 FOs leaving in one month they canít afford to let ppl upgrade.

For those that are looking at Skywest, you have to ask yourself why would 38 FOs leave? Well Iíll tell you I hate it here right now. Iím 65% in a western base, Iím about to start another 4day, it will be 3 weeks in a row of only 2 days off, oh and April is supposedly a down month. I had 10 days off in February and that was awarded. Weíre being paid far less than our competitors, canít help but feel like weíre getting taken advantage of.

GiggidyGone
04-01-2018, 04:04 PM
This is not accurate. I along with about 25 others were not awarded upgrade. VD said they decided to scale back classes, no explaination why. However if you look at attrition for the month it doesnít take a rocket scientist to figure out that with 33 FOs leaving in one month they canít afford to let ppl upgrade.



For those that are looking at Skywest, you have to ask yourself why would 33 FOs leave? Well Iíll tell you I hate it here right now. Iím 65% in a western base, Iím about to start another 4day, it will be 3 weeks in a row of only 2 days off, oh and April is supposedly a down month. I had 10 days off in February and that was awarded. Weíre being paid far less than our competitors, canít help but feel like weíre getting taken advantage of.



10 days off in February... that one is on you not knowing how to bid.... 12 days off, thatís company standard these days. Anything less than 12 off is your PBS bid settings.


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Rocksteady
04-01-2018, 04:15 PM
10 days off in February... that one is on you not knowing how to bid.... 12 days off, thatís company standard these days. Anything less than 12 off is your PBS bid settings.


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Iím DMA which is hard lines. With the carry-in pairings, it amounted to 10 days off. Because the ppm states PBS and DMA doesnít use PBS, CS wouldnít budge so I had to suck it up and work the schedule.

N1234
04-01-2018, 04:34 PM
This is not accurate. I along with about 25 others were not awarded upgrade. VD said they decided to scale back classes, no explaination why. However if you look at attrition for the month it doesnít take a rocket scientist to figure out that with 38 FOs leaving in one month they canít afford to let ppl upgrade.

For those that are looking at Skywest, you have to ask yourself why would 38 FOs leave? Well Iíll tell you I hate it here right now. Iím 65% in a western base, Iím about to start another 4day, it will be 3 weeks in a row of only 2 days off, oh and April is supposedly a down month. I had 10 days off in February and that was awarded. Weíre being paid far less than our competitors, canít help but feel like weíre getting taken advantage of.

You can expect that TA within the next 2-3 weeks with a massive SAPA sales pitch!

Check Complete
04-01-2018, 08:48 PM
You can expect that TA within the next 2-3 weeks with a massive SAPA sales pitch!

Plus heavy pressure from Management and the training department.

Check Complete
04-01-2018, 08:55 PM
This is not accurate. I along with about 25 others were not awarded upgrade. VD said they decided to scale back classes, no explaination why. However if you look at attrition for the month it doesnít take a rocket scientist to figure out that with 38 FOs leaving in one month they canít afford to let ppl upgrade.

For those that are looking at Skywest, you have to ask yourself why would 38 FOs leave? Well Iíll tell you I hate it here right now. Iím 65% in a western base, Iím about to start another 4day, it will be 3 weeks in a row of only 2 days off, oh and April is supposedly a down month. I had 10 days off in February and that was awarded. Weíre being paid far less than our competitors, canít help but feel like weíre getting taken advantage of.

Of course we are being taken advantage of! Our representation is paid by the entity we are negotiating with, this is lunacy!

Thereís a reason why every medium size airline and larger has negotiation paid by the pilot group, a union!

We are truly are own worse enemies!

GiggidyGone
04-02-2018, 08:48 AM
Iím DMA which is hard lines. With the carry-in pairings, it amounted to 10 days off. Because the ppm states PBS and DMA doesnít use PBS, CS wouldnít budge so I had to suck it up and work the schedule.



Oh I didnít know that. Thatís terrible. Iím sorry man.


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Bozo
04-02-2018, 09:15 AM
You can expect that TA within the next 2-3 weeks with a massive SAPA sales pitch!

What TA? You guys are non union so CC can change the rules whenever he wants.

rickair7777
04-02-2018, 09:23 AM
What TA? You guys are non union so CC can change the rules whenever he wants.

That's false. The agreement is a contract signed by reps from both parties, and legally has the same force as a union CBA. In order to enforce that, you'd have to go to court. Remember RLA still applies to airline labor groups, union or not.

Check Complete
04-02-2018, 10:44 AM
That's false. The agreement is a contract signed by reps from both parties, and legally has the same force as a union CBA. In order to enforce that, you'd have to go to court. Remember RLA still applies to airline labor groups, union or not.

The company violates the "contract" all the time, and nothing can be done about it, nothing!

SAPA cannot get legal assistance to pursue action against the very entity that is supporting it and funds it, i.e. the company. It would be akin to getting a divorce from your wife while asking her lawyer to pursue legal action against her?

Who would do that?

SAPA has no teeth, and definitely no legal teeth!

There is no money to fund a counsel, thus no way to effect a legal course of action.

The company can and will violate the "contract" any time they see a need to do so. On a company wide basis they do so more methodically, as in the latesty reserve proffering disaster and with out a second thought to targeted individuals.

Unless you are going to take them to court yourself and pay for it yourself, (see DD) nothing can be done about it, nothing!

We do not have a "contract", we have a PPM which really is an open to interpretation guideline.

SMACFUM
04-02-2018, 11:01 AM
That's false. The agreement is a contract signed by reps from both parties, and legally has the same force as a union CBA. In order to enforce that, you'd have to go to court. Remember RLA still applies to airline labor groups, union or not.

Furthermore, because SAPA isnít a certified collective bargaining agent, they arenít recognized by the national mediation board and have zero standing. So while our ďpolicy manualĒ might be a quasi legal document, itís certinally not a contract of employment, and doesnít have the same legal force as a union CBA.

Strenyakov
04-04-2018, 02:48 PM
Furthermore, because SAPA isnít a certified collective bargaining agent, they arenít recognized by the national mediation board and have zero standing. So while our ďpolicy manualĒ might be a quasi legal document, itís certinally not a contract of employment, and doesnít have the same legal force as a union CBA.

True, but it is pretty much a defacto contract. The company has bound itself to the terms but each individual pilot has not made itself bound. I believe the court would just look at it as the requirements of the job to work at Skywest if an individual objected to a particular item.

Can you name instances where the agreement would apply differently to an individual, other than the process for a grievance? I am sure there are some.

flysooner9
04-07-2018, 07:17 PM
Has it been officially determined whether or not the company is with holding upgrades?

amcnd
04-07-2018, 08:00 PM
Has it been officially determined whether or not the company is with holding upgrades?

No news.... spring break, so everyone in the known is gone.. I've heard NH classes are over full. So that may be the cause of less upgrades do to sim time?? Sapa call RJ said he had no idea. Hadnít even heard of it. Lame answer RJ. Sorry.. (have to admit. If we were alpa. They would have a answer that same day) ... maybe will know next week..

trip
04-08-2018, 09:14 AM
No news.... spring break, so everyone in the known is gone.. I've heard NH classes are over full. So that may be the cause of less upgrades do to sim time?? Sapa call RJ said he had no idea. Hadnít even heard of it. Lame answer RJ. Sorry.. (have to admit. If we were alpa. They would have a answer that same day) ... maybe will know next week..

Agree the call was very unprofessional IMO, that's why people call it student union I guess.
The company has far outgrown SAPA and it's effectiveness. Great intentions but it has obviously become unmanageable for a handful of pilot volunteers.

amcnd
04-08-2018, 09:17 AM
Agree the call was very unprofessional IMO, that's why people call it student union I guess.
The company has far outgrown SAPA and it's effectiveness. Great intentions but it has obviously become unmanageable for a handful of pilot volunteers.
Never thought of that. But. Itís very true. Sapa worked. With 500, 1500, even 2000 pilots on the list. At 4600 its no longer effective... this will be the turning point. Sapa meeting this week. If we get nothing by summer. Time for change...

Nomadic
04-09-2018, 10:02 AM
Not withholding upgrades on the ERJ side.

Most recent ERJ upgrade is 2 yrs, 6 mos, 23 days. May 21 class from what I have been told.

flysooner9
04-09-2018, 11:02 AM
Not withholding upgrades on the ERJ side.

Most recent ERJ upgrade is 2 yrs, 6 mos, 23 days. May 21 class from what I have been told.

Thanks. I assume CRJ is immediate for anyone wanting it and qualifies?

sn00p
04-09-2018, 01:04 PM
Thanks. I assume CRJ is immediate for anyone wanting it and qualifies?

Have you decided on an airline yet?

On the last vacancy it did not go to new hires. Could change, anybodyís guess.

amcnd
04-09-2018, 01:20 PM
Have you decided on an airline yet?

On the last vacancy it did not go to new hires. Could change, anybodyís guess.

They stopped the bid awards at the last second.... they needed to figure out how to staff summer flying and train 40+ captains a month. I suspect it will be business as usual next bid... base staffing is super lopsided... i think they need to figure that out before summer..

flysooner9
04-09-2018, 01:49 PM
No. Waiting till June for family reasons to start class somewhere. Hopeing my decision will be easier by then.

sn00p
04-09-2018, 04:39 PM
They stopped the bid awards at the last second.... they needed to figure out how to staff summer flying and train 40+ captains a month. I suspect it will be business as usual next bid... base staffing is super lopsided... i think they need to figure that out before summer..

Makes sense, thanks for sharing. :cool:

Good luck flysooner9 on your decision. :cool:

chitolin
04-10-2018, 07:00 AM
Good luck on your choice, You can interview in the meantime and get a later than june class date.

No. Waiting till June for family reasons to start class somewhere. Hopeing my decision will be easier by then.

flysooner9
04-10-2018, 07:32 AM
Good luck on your choice, You can interview in the meantime and get a later than june class date.

All ready have one and one at Envoy. Waiting to see who will be the better fit come June.

dawg7
04-12-2018, 01:13 PM
Curious to about how long it would take to upgrade to CA in ATL as a new hire. I already have several thousand hours of 121 time and could use PIC time.

ImPilot I Fly
04-12-2018, 02:48 PM
Curious to about how long it would take to upgrade to CA in ATL as a new hire. I already have several thousand hours of 121 time and could use PIC time.

Could be the next bid. Could be years. Who knows. ATL is currently "staffed" about 30 current captains with bids in for ATL. DTW remains very junior. Very dynamic. We will know more when upgrades get back to normal on the next DVR.