Airline Pilot Forums

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BarrySeal
03-16-2018, 04:51 PM
Which is best regional, my sole target is SWA

I am hearing a lot of Skywest dudes go to SWA, but a lot of Skywest dudes go to a lot of airlines.

I already have 2500 multi-engine turboprop PIC, ATP, and college degree. But was told to "get some regional 121 time" to help my resume. I was told "the interview calls will start" after I do a year at the regionals

Which regional ? Looking for "pedigree" and (god forbid) if I have to stay there for 5 years+, looking for culture, QOL, etc.

** may get the B737 type, still not decided

Thank you


Proximity
03-16-2018, 04:54 PM
Which regional ? Looking for "pedigree" and (god forbid) if I have to stay there for 5 years+, looking for culture, QOL, etc.

I would recommend looking for a regional that is the best fit for you, this is more important that which is best in the eyes of SWA. I would guess all regionals are weighted equally in SWA's selection algorithm. Many Skywest pilots get hired at Southwest because Skywest is the biggest regional.

CaptYoda
03-16-2018, 06:08 PM
While it is admirable that your "sole target" is Southwest Airlines, you might be setting yourself up for disappointment by putting all your eggs in one basket. Southwest hires people from varied backgrounds, many without any FAR 121 time as well. As far as FAR 121 regional airlines are concerned most of the top tier ones have excellent reputations. Where do you live? Try to get on with someone where you don't have to commute. If you wind up staying there for 5 years, then pick someplace that can offer you an upgrade, QOL and perhaps even a flow, just in case SWA does not come calling. Expecting an interview one year after joining a regional may not be realistic unless you are a former military or higher time civilian pilot.


WHACKMASTER
03-16-2018, 07:00 PM
Which is best regional, my sole target is SWA

I am hearing a lot of Skywest dudes go to SWA, but a lot of Skywest dudes go to a lot of airlines.

I already have 2500 multi-engine turboprop PIC, ATP, and college degree. But was told to "get some regional 121 time" to help my resume. I was told "the interview calls will start" after I do a year at the regionals

Which regional ? Looking for "pedigree" and (god forbid) if I have to stay there for 5 years+, looking for culture, QOL, etc.

** may get the B737 type, still not decided

Thank you

The USAF. Definitely.

Peacock
03-16-2018, 09:28 PM
The USAF. Definitely.
He said regional. Heís looking for a quick turnaround, not a decade obligation.

slimothy
03-16-2018, 10:01 PM
I think heís looking at the OPís numbers and guessing at the pedigree. If I were to register a guess, Iíd guess Navy or Marine Corps. He said turboprops, not jets.

BarrySeal
03-16-2018, 10:04 PM
Civilian regional. I hear "lots of SW guys come from Skywest" also "back in the day" lots of guys came from Eagle.

special reason? or like someone said, Skywest pushes out a lot of regional pilots so math would dictate that yes, a lot of them go to SWA.

at6d
03-16-2018, 10:16 PM
Go to the place that will help you build PIC time quickly, has a good training department, and help you become qualified for ALL the majors, not just SWA.

WHACKMASTER
03-16-2018, 10:35 PM
He said regional. Heís looking for a quick turnaround, not a decade obligation.

I was just being a smarta$$.....a little jab at the USAFcentric culture in our Flt Ops.

Now if you want me to be serious then Iíd definitely say Skywest.

Squallrider
03-17-2018, 11:17 AM
Civilian regional. I hear "lots of SW guys come from Skywest" also "back in the day" lots of guys came from Eagle.

special reason? or like someone said, Skywest pushes out a lot of regional pilots so math would dictate that yes, a lot of them go to SWA.

Ive been told by a SWA recruiter they like SkyWest because culturally they are similar. I wouldnít base my regional on wanting to get on at Southwest, I donít think it has much to do with it. Iíd go where I can get tpic and where thereís solid movement that could open up other stuff like check airman, sim instructor, ground instructor.

gipple
03-17-2018, 03:06 PM
The USAF. Definitely.

A thumbing and a liking for the humor in your post.
Time to drive to the ready room and prepare for my sortie.

WHACKMASTER
03-17-2018, 08:48 PM
A thumbing and a liking for the humor in your post.
Time to drive to the ready room and prepare for my sortie.

.......with your ďbudsĒ from your ďunitĒ who are a ďgood $hitĒ......

flensr
03-17-2018, 10:05 PM
.......with your “buds” from your “unit” who are a “good $hit”......

This is pretty funny. Sensing some unresolved personal angst.

Current class has people from a very wide variety of backgrounds including at least one from skywest, but maybe 5 also have mil backgrounds. Only a few are coming directly from mil, both USAF and Navy.

Regardless of whatever chips are carried on whoever's shoulders, mil training is still considered the gold standard. Someone who gets through multiple military training programs has a good statistical chance of getting through their first 121 type and indoc training, regardless of how many hours they have. That's a good bet for an HR department in any company, the only question being if that pilot is going to quit to go somewhere else after training is done. Maybe that's because getting through training and adapting to a completely new job is pretty much just another day at the office for most mil pilots. Not saying that's not true for non-mil pilots, but a mil pilot has already proven they're able to do that more than once even if they only have 1700 hrs or whatever.

Given the wide variety of backgrounds I've seen here already though, I don't think there's a bad choice as long as it helps you meet the SWA min requirements. Solid 121 experience at a "big" regional like skywest or an LCC like spirit does seem to have advantages with respect to being prepared for the training program, but SWA training has a pretty low washout rate so I don't think they're all that worried about the quality of the people they bring aboard. It seems like if they like you, they'll hire you regardless of where you're coming from and work hard to get you through training. Very diverse group in my class.

Edit: I know some mil folks don't make it through the SWA interview. Not because of qualifications, but because of the intangible qualities SWA is looking for. The mil guys in my class seem to be genuinely good people, same as everyone else in the class. Once you meet the requirements for the interview the final screening is for attitude, and for that it doesn't matter what your background is.

WHACKMASTER
03-17-2018, 10:56 PM
Hey Flensr,

Welcome aboard Iím guessing from your posts. Maybe weíll get a chance to have drinks at the bar with FAs and make a lot of APC posters nervous by doing so ;)

flensr
03-17-2018, 11:09 PM
Hey Flensr,

Welcome aboard I’m guessing from your posts. Maybe we’ll get a chance to have drinks at the bar with FAs and make a lot of APC posters nervous by doing so ;)

Thanks :)

Seems like a happy bunch so far. Some of the minor "taking the ****" I've seen so far has been pretty funny. One day it was everyone piling on the brit for one imagined reason or another, another day it was the sim instructor questioning my domestic skills because I didn't iron my badly wrinkled shirt. Good spirits seem to abound and since everyone already belongs here, most people aren't dancing around afraid to have a little fun out of fear of damaging someone's delicate sensibilities. Underneath it all is a basic personal consideration for everyone. It isn't perfect, but so far it's been good.

slimothy
03-17-2018, 11:12 PM
Seems like a happy bunch so far. Some of the minor "taking the ****" I've seen so far has been pretty funny. One day it was everyone piling on the brit for one imagined reason or another, another day it was the sim instructor questioning my domestic skills because I didn't iron my badly wrinkled shirt. Good spirits seem to abound and since everyone already belongs here, most people aren't dancing around afraid to have a little fun out of fear of damaging someone's delicate sensibilities. Underneath it all is a basic personal consideration for everyone. It isn't perfect, but so far it's been good.

Sounds like fun, canít wait to get started. Just over a week away.

Rsv4lyfe
03-19-2018, 06:01 AM
The USAF. Definitely.

LOL!!! So true it hurts. Kernal nation! Hooohaaahhh.

RJSAviator76
03-19-2018, 12:52 PM
.......with your ďbudsĒ from your ďunitĒ who are a ďgood $hitĒ......

flying a "good jet".... :D

Castle Bravo
03-20-2018, 02:40 PM
A better strategy for the OP is "What Regionals are not getting hired by SWA" and avoid those. Next, find the best fit for you. Then, take the first awesome paying job that is offered (Big 6). I've heard of numerous pilots leaving other Mainlines for SWA, as well as SWA guys leaving for other Mains. Just because you go Delta doesn't mean your stuck in ALT for life...

BarrySeal
03-20-2018, 05:02 PM
A better strategy for the OP is "What Regionals are not getting hired by SWA" and avoid those. Next, find the best fit for you. Then, take the first awesome paying job that is offered (Big 6). I've heard of numerous pilots leaving other Mainlines for SWA, as well as SWA guys leaving for other Mains. Just because you go Delta doesn't mean your stuck in ALT for life...

Great points. Thank you. I live in Dallas, so probably gonna apply to Envoy versus other regionals. "Back up" is flow-to-AA in the estimated 9 years, meanwhile apply to AA as an outsider and obviously to SWA. May get my 737 type to boost my resume.

Smokey23
03-21-2018, 07:46 AM
Until recently I would have said Skywest is the "best" regional for a SWA wannabee, but SWAPA put out some new-hire demographics info which showed the most new hires have lately come from...wait for it....

Expressjet :confused::confused::confused:

Though I think as others have posted, I'm not sure there's really that much difference these days between most of the regionals, in SWA's eyes.

coryk
03-21-2018, 08:25 AM
Anyone leaving the other big 5 (AA/DL/UA/FDX/UPS) for SWA?

surfpilot1414
03-21-2018, 11:05 AM
https://m.facebook.com/swapa737/photos/a.246911312167819.1073741833.186824038176547/781354318723513/?type=3&source=48

Skyward
03-21-2018, 01:51 PM
Anyone leaving the other big 5 (AA/DL/UA/FDX/UPS) for SWA?

Guy in my class turned down a FDX CJO and I had a UAL CJO. Itís not really ďleavingĒ I guess. Once you get on a seniority list at any of these, itís hard to start over.

TheBlueBaron
03-21-2018, 02:54 PM
In my class of 28, 1/3 of us were from either XJT (LASA) or Skyw.

slimothy
03-21-2018, 03:06 PM
https://m.facebook.com/swapa737/photos/a.246911312167819.1073741833.186824038176547/781354318723513/?type=3&source=48

Surprising to me that JetBlue isnít represented on the pie chart.

surfpilot1414
03-21-2018, 03:15 PM
In my class of 28, 1/3 of us were from either XJT (LASA) or Skyw.

Anyone from republic??

BarrySeal
03-21-2018, 07:03 PM
https://m.facebook.com/swapa737/photos/a.246911312167819.1073741833.186824038176547/781354318723513/?type=3&source=48

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/cp0/e15/q65/s320x320/24296413_781354318723513_6548674303182566456_n.jpg ?efg=eyJpIjoiYiJ9&oh=31f12a18655c2b2f6a84b273cead5c31&oe=5B48D6A7

I believe ExpressJet is owned by Skywest, correct ? If yes, then "pilots from Skywest companies" make up ??? 40% of the pie chart.

I would have thought that we would see more Envoy folks being hired.

TheBlueBaron
03-22-2018, 06:04 PM
Anyone from republic??

I think a couple maybe.

saturn
03-23-2018, 01:59 PM
Insight on the pie chart. SWA puts a lot of weight in total time that other majors do not. I would wager the average age of a pure civilian off the street hire at SWA is noticeably higher than other places. This simply favors those who have been in the industry longer. Some regional carriers have a higher ratio of seasoned pilots (Expressjet, SkyWest, Republic) and many that I see making the jump have 8+ years and up in the industry. Whereas the AA wholly owned carriers are flowing the top of their lists, and the commuterairs, compasses, mesas, & TSAs have much younger groups. Also consider that SWA has a regional homecourt advantage with a lot of these regionals they are drawing from. No surprise you don't get a lot of Horizon and Endeavor, since SWA has a tiny SEA/PDX, MSP/DTW/NYC footprint.
In summary, the hiring numbers have a greater likelihood of the demographics of the pilots at those regionals and their preferences than SWA playing favorites by association. No different than thinking you need to go to ERAU to get a leg up.

surfpilot1414
03-23-2018, 06:28 PM
Insight on the pie chart. SWA puts a lot of weight in total time that other majors do not. I would wager the average age of a pure civilian off the street hire at SWA is noticeably higher than other places. This simply favors those who have been in the industry longer. Some regional carriers have a higher ratio of seasoned pilots (Expressjet, SkyWest, Republic) and many that I see making the jump have 8+ years and up in the industry. Whereas the AA wholly owned carriers are flowing the top of their lists, and the commuterairs, compasses, mesas, & TSAs have much younger groups. Also consider that SWA has a regional homecourt advantage with a lot of these regionals they are drawing from. No surprise you don't get a lot of Horizon and Endeavor, since SWA has a tiny SEA/PDX, MSP/DTW/NYC footprint.
In summary, the hiring numbers have a greater likelihood of the demographics of the pilots at those regionals and their preferences than SWA playing favorites by association. No different than thinking you need to go to ERAU to get a leg up.
This makes sense for sure. My main goal is southwest as well and I thought I needed to go to SkyWest to have a better chance. Iíve changed my mind and realized that choosing a regional that will be better for me and my family is more important than choosing a regional that LUV might hire like hiring from. plus as others have said, it seems like theyíll hire from anywhere as long as you have what they are looking for.

at6d
03-23-2018, 09:38 PM
I think thatís a good plan. Itís not worth risking poor quality family life As employment at SWA is not a guarantee.

BarrySeal
03-24-2018, 10:41 AM
This makes sense for sure. My main goal is southwest as well and I thought I needed to go to SkyWest to have a better chance. Iíve changed my mind and realized that choosing a regional that will be better for me and my family is more important than choosing a regional that LUV might hire like hiring from. plus as others have said, it seems like theyíll hire from anywhere as long as you have what they are looking for.

what regional did you go with

surfpilot1414
03-24-2018, 07:00 PM
what regional did you go with

Iím an east coaster and QOL was my top priority when I chose a regional so I ended up choosing Republic instead of SkyWest. I was able to compare schedules for both companyís with the same level of seniority, Repubic allows me to be home 4 extra days and pays me 1700 more a month (including the bonus).

BarrySeal
03-24-2018, 07:25 PM
Iím an east coaster and QOL was my top priority when I chose a regional so I ended up choosing Republic instead of SkyWest. I was able to compare schedules for both companyís with the same level of seniority, Repubic allows me to be home 4 extra days and pays me 1700 more a month (including the bonus).

ok, well SWA should give you extra points for ďsound decision makingĒ

:)

surfpilot1414
03-25-2018, 12:32 AM
ok, well SWA should give you extra points for ďsound decision makingĒ

:)

Good luck to ya.

Fly507
04-07-2018, 02:50 PM
Hey guys,

just looking for a bit of career advice. I'm currently an FO at a regional with no flow through, I have about 800 of 121 but the upgrade is about 16 months away for me. NOT former MIL. I'm commuting out of MCO and a friend of mine suggested me to go to Silver. I'd stop commuting which would be awesome for my QOL, and on top of that as soon as I hit the 1000hrs 121 I'd upgrade. It also opens the door to become a check airman/instructor after a year of being a CA with them. This obviously sounds very tempting, but I wouldn't want to shoot myself in the foot by making a lateral move. What do you guys think I should do?

SouthWest is my main focus, it's not the only place I'd go, but it is my top choice... comments, suggestions are more than welcome.

jetset
04-07-2018, 03:13 PM
Hey guys,

just looking for a bit of career advice. I'm currently an FO at a regional with no flow through, I have about 800 of 121 but the upgrade is about 16 months away for me. NOT former MIL. I'm commuting out of MCO and a friend of mine suggested me to go to Silver. I'd stop commuting which would be awesome for my QOL, and on top of that as soon as I hit the 1000hrs 121 I'd upgrade. It also opens the door to become a check airman/instructor after a year of being a CA with them. This obviously sounds very tempting, but I wouldn't want to shoot myself in the foot by making a lateral move. What do you guys think I should do?

SouthWest is my main focus, it's not the only place I'd go, but it is my top choice... comments, suggestions are more than welcome.

Do it. PIC time will always be valuable. Get it early and often.

Squallrider
04-07-2018, 03:24 PM
Hey guys,

just looking for a bit of career advice. I'm currently an FO at a regional with no flow through, I have about 800 of 121 but the upgrade is about 16 months away for me. NOT former MIL. I'm commuting out of MCO and a friend of mine suggested me to go to Silver. I'd stop commuting which would be awesome for my QOL, and on top of that as soon as I hit the 1000hrs 121 I'd upgrade. It also opens the door to become a check airman/instructor after a year of being a CA with them. This obviously sounds very tempting, but I wouldn't want to shoot myself in the foot by making a lateral move. What do you guys think I should do?

SouthWest is my main focus, it's not the only place I'd go, but it is my top choice... comments, suggestions are more than welcome.

Donít count on being a lca, no one can make that promise and keep it. QOL is everything, driving to work is amazing. Id get the 1000 121 time then decide. SkyWest has ATL as a base as does endeavor (SkyWest is near instant upgrade in atl, if you take 3 months to get 1000 plus 2 months training you save 13 months minimum and get 7500 bonus) Apply to spirit, frontier and Allegiant along the way, but my understanding from my experience swa really likes 1000 tpic but they do like ppl of varying backgrounds in class.

NarcolepticAV8R
04-07-2018, 04:12 PM
Apply early and apply often!

Fly507
04-07-2018, 05:49 PM
Thank you guys!

WHACKMASTER
04-07-2018, 05:52 PM
Thank you guys!

Get the check airman wherever you can as thatís a HUGE thing for SWA. Second bit of advice is not to solely focus on SWA.

Fly507
04-07-2018, 06:33 PM
Get the check airman wherever you can as that’s a HUGE thing for SWA. Second bit of advice is not to solely focus on SWA.

I'm not, and that's part of the dilema. Some of our FO's have gone straight from the right seat to Spirit or jetBlue. So I'm trying to determine what's better, either go to Silver (lateral move for the QOL, TPIC and CKA possibility) or to just stay where I am and try to get on with Spirit or jetBlue and kinda forget about SWA. What worries me a bit, is going to Silver and for some reason just getting stuck there. I guess is part of the risk I'd have to be willing to take.
The main thing for me is to stay in FL, as my wife has a very stable job here and her family is also down here.

Again thank you all for the advice. I really appreciate it!

at6d
04-07-2018, 07:57 PM
How stable is Silver?

You want to go the SF3 route and start at the bottom again?

I donít know. You have around a year of 121 now (800 hours?). You still need 200 more to upgrade at the 1000 hour mark, plus another year as a captain and you think you will be a check airman with around 2000 hours 121?

Possible, I guess.

When early in my Eagle days, I remember the big push to hire guys into the left seat of the Brazilias at ASA. Several left Eagle to chase the mythical quick upgrade only to have Comair strike and ASA to choke, and of course all the rest of the lost decade.

Times have definitely changed since then, but I still feel there is no sure thing when chasing upgrades with a crystal ball looking at today only.

Just my two cents. Best of luck.

Squallrider
04-07-2018, 08:22 PM
The reason JetBlue and spirit hire FOs is they know they donít have the tpic to move on to other perhaps (depending on person) more desiresble companies

slimothy
04-07-2018, 11:07 PM
The reason JetBlue and spirit hire FOs is they know they donít have the tpic to move on to other perhaps (depending on person) more desiresble companies

^^^^^this^^^^^^^

BarrySeal
04-08-2018, 06:41 AM
How stable is Silver?

You want to go the SF3 route and start at the bottom again?

I donít know. You have around a year of 121 now (800 hours?). You still need 200 more to upgrade at the 1000 hour mark, plus another year as a captain and you think you will be a check airman with around 2000 hours 121?

Possible, I guess.

When early in my Eagle days, I remember the big push to hire guys into the left seat of the Brazilias at ASA. Several left Eagle to chase the mythical quick upgrade only to have Comair strike and ASA to choke, and of course all the rest of the lost decade.

Times have definitely changed since then, but I still feel there is no sure thing when chasing upgrades with a crystal ball looking at today only.

Just my two cents. Best of luck.

good to see Eagle guys at SWA. hopefully a large population over there

at6d
04-08-2018, 10:03 PM
good to see Eagle guys at SWA. hopefully a large population over there

Just crossed paths with a former SJU captain I flew with down there back in 2000 (heís left seat here now). Weíve got quite a few.

SlipKid
04-09-2018, 08:34 AM
Just crossed paths with a former SJU captain I flew with down there back in 2000 (heís left seat here now). Weíve got quite a few.

Definitely. The Eagle Mafia is alive and well!

I saw Chupie in MCO just yesterday!:eek:

hoover
04-09-2018, 08:57 AM
I'm not, and that's part of the dilema. Some of our FO's have gone straight from the right seat to Spirit or jetBlue. So I'm trying to determine what's better, either go to Silver (lateral move for the QOL, TPIC and CKA possibility) or to just stay where I am and try to get on with Spirit or jetBlue and kinda forget about SWA. What worries me a bit, is going to Silver and for some reason just getting stuck there. I guess is part of the risk I'd have to be willing to take.
The main thing for me is to stay in FL, as my wife has a very stable job here and her family is also down here.

Again thank you all for the advice. I really appreciate it!

Isn't silver shrinking? I don't see them lasting that much longer but who knows.

Stitches
04-10-2018, 02:45 PM
Take a look at some of the other hiring threads but I think non-mil guys are getting hired with around 5000-7000 hours. I donít think a lateral move to a place like Silver would be all that smart unless youíre prepared to stay there for quite a while.

Squallrider
04-10-2018, 03:18 PM
I donít understand how you can be
Promised that you can be a lca if you donít even work there yet...by that reasoning you can be a lca at any conpany

fenix1
06-03-2018, 01:25 AM
Is anyone aware of reasons - other than minimal/moderate SWA presence in Horizon's backyard in the Northwest - that SWA didn't hire any Horizon pilots in the period represented by the pie chart? Does SWA shy away from Horizon folks because they entirely/mainly flew turboprops (Q400's)? Has there been cultural issues at SWA with Horizon pilots in the past? Any other reasons?

I'm looking hard at Horizon and - down the road - seeking to be competitive for SWA so curious to learn what I can about literally zero SWA hires coming from Horizon and grateful for any insight.

Insight on the pie chart. SWA puts a lot of weight in total time that other majors do not. I would wager the average age of a pure civilian off the street hire at SWA is noticeably higher than other places. This simply favors those who have been in the industry longer. Some regional carriers have a higher ratio of seasoned pilots (Expressjet, SkyWest, Republic) and many that I see making the jump have 8+ years and up in the industry. Whereas the AA wholly owned carriers are flowing the top of their lists, and the commuterairs, compasses, mesas, & TSAs have much younger groups. Also consider that SWA has a regional homecourt advantage with a lot of these regionals they are drawing from. No surprise you don't get a lot of Horizon and Endeavor, since SWA has a tiny SEA/PDX, MSP/DTW/NYC footprint.
In summary, the hiring numbers have a greater likelihood of the demographics of the pilots at those regionals and their preferences than SWA playing favorites by association. No different than thinking you need to go to ERAU to get a leg up.

Squallrider
06-03-2018, 03:47 AM
Is anyone aware of reasons - other than minimal/moderate SWA presence in Horizon's backyard in the Northwest - that SWA didn't hire any Horizon pilots in the period represented by the pie chart? Does SWA shy away from Horizon folks because they entirely/mainly flew turboprops (Q400's)? Has there been cultural issues at SWA with Horizon pilots in the past? Any other reasons?

I'm looking hard at Horizon and - down the road - seeking to be competitive for SWA so curious to learn what I can about literally zero SWA hires coming from Horizon and grateful for any insight.

Iím more curious for your reasoning for looking at horizon. As for your question I donít believe thereís any negative to people getting hired from there, itís probably more due to size of pilot group and where ppl with in that group want to end up geographically

RJSAviator76
06-03-2018, 06:02 AM
Is anyone aware of reasons - other than minimal/moderate SWA presence in Horizon's backyard in the Northwest - that SWA didn't hire any Horizon pilots in the period represented by the pie chart? Does SWA shy away from Horizon folks because they entirely/mainly flew turboprops (Q400's)? Has there been cultural issues at SWA with Horizon pilots in the past? Any other reasons?

I'm looking hard at Horizon and - down the road - seeking to be competitive for SWA so curious to learn what I can about literally zero SWA hires coming from Horizon and grateful for any insight.



If Iím not mistaken, Horizon has traditionally had long upgrade times and up until recently we had a 1000 TPIC requirement as well.

Furthermore, donít most Horizon pilots live in the NW? Assuming you live in your Horizon domicile, getting on with Alaska means no commuting while getting on at Southwest means youíll commute for the rest of your career.

Just a WAG...

at6d
06-03-2018, 08:37 AM
Is anyone aware of reasons - other than minimal/moderate SWA presence in Horizon's backyard in the Northwest - that SWA didn't hire any Horizon pilots in the period represented by the pie chart? Does SWA shy away from Horizon folks because they entirely/mainly flew turboprops (Q400's)? Has there been cultural issues at SWA with Horizon pilots in the past? Any other reasons?

I'm looking hard at Horizon and - down the road - seeking to be competitive for SWA so curious to learn what I can about literally zero SWA hires coming from Horizon and grateful for any insight.

Did any apply and interview during that period?

fenix1
06-04-2018, 11:58 PM
Thanks a lot and I appreciate it. Biggest draw to Horizon is that itís the only western wholly-owned regional, but the flying also sounds really challenging (plenty of weather and unique approaches).

If I was fortunate enough to earn an opportunity with SWA, weíd relocate to DEN & hold that base as soon as possible. How senior is DEN for SWA on both FO & CA sides?

Iím more curious for your reasoning for looking at horizon. As for your question I donít believe thereís any negative to people getting hired from there, itís probably more due to size of pilot group and where ppl with in that group want to end up geographically

fenix1
06-05-2018, 12:24 AM
I understand that Horizonís upgrade times have dropped considerably in recent years to the point where theyíre comparable (or perhaps even better than) most regionals at this point. Iím concerned about 5/6th of Horizonís current equipment being turboprops, but itís SUPPOSED to transition to a 50/50 split with E-175ís within a couple years and, frankly, Iím not sure how concerned to be about the turboprop time - I know itís not helping me in & of itself, but Iím hoping the challenging flying (Cat III approaches, etc) offsets it some in the eyes of the majorsí hiring authorities.

Thanks a lot for mentioning Alaska and itís absolutely part of our thinking as well and could be a better fit when all is said & done, but Iíll be curious to see how post-merger (Virgin) Alaska shakes out. SWAís DEN base has all kinds of appeal to us, although Iím not sure how senior DEN is for both FOís & CAís, and my current perception (please correct me if Iím in error due to soft pay or other factors) is that both compensation & QoL would be better at SWA than Alaska. Not to sound like Iím running for office, but I see both airlines as potentially great situations...although Iíd make Fat Albert look sad at the Golden Corral if SWA in DEN became a reality for us!

If Iím not mistaken, Horizon has traditionally had long upgrade times and up until recently we had a 1000 TPIC requirement as well.

Furthermore, donít most Horizon pilots live in the NW? Assuming you live in your Horizon domicile, getting on with Alaska means no commuting while getting on at Southwest means youíll commute for the rest of your career.

Just a WAG...

fenix1
06-05-2018, 12:26 AM
Great question, my friend, and perhaps very telling!

Did any apply and interview during that period?

rickair7777
06-05-2018, 09:57 AM
Is anyone aware of reasons - other than minimal/moderate SWA presence in Horizon's backyard in the Northwest - that SWA didn't hire any Horizon pilots in the period represented by the pie chart? Does SWA shy away from Horizon folks because they entirely/mainly flew turboprops (Q400's)? Has there been cultural issues at SWA with Horizon pilots in the past? Any other reasons?

I'm looking hard at Horizon and - down the road - seeking to be competitive for SWA so curious to learn what I can about literally zero SWA hires coming from Horizon and grateful for any insight.

I don't think it has to do with props. If anything SWA seems to be more inclined to hire prop trash than most other majors. They sure hired a lot SKW brasilia drivers.

rickair7777
06-05-2018, 09:59 AM
Thanks a lot and I appreciate it. Biggest draw to Horizon is that itís the only western wholly-owned regional, but the flying also sounds really challenging (plenty of weather and unique approaches).


In this context "wholly-owned" is not a plus. In fact, it's probably a minus.

Swingline78
06-06-2018, 11:51 AM
There was a horizon guy in my class. To my knowledge where you come from isn't nearly as important as the qualifications you have. In other words pic pic pic

fenix1
06-06-2018, 10:37 PM
Interesting perspective - thank you - but can you please explain & elaborate further? Please note that Iím not necessarily disagreeing, but instead Iím genuinely interested in better understanding where youíre coming from here!

In this context "wholly-owned" is not a plus. In fact, it's probably a minus.

fenix1
06-06-2018, 10:40 PM
Good to know and thank you, but how long ago was that? (ie, is SWA still on-board with turboprop hours today or has the continued proliferation of RJís changed SWAís perspective on folks with a lot of turboprop time?)

I don't think it has to do with props. If anything SWA seems to be more inclined to hire prop trash than most other majors. They sure hired a lot SKW brasilia drivers.

fenix1
06-06-2018, 10:41 PM
I appreciate it a great deal. Do you mind if I ask how long ago you were in class with SWA?

There was a horizon guy in my class. To my knowledge where you come from isn't nearly as important as the qualifications you have. In other words pic pic pic

Swingline78
06-07-2018, 06:56 AM
I appreciate it a great deal. Do you mind if I ask how long ago you were in class with SWA?

Less than a year.

fenix1
06-07-2018, 11:23 PM
Thanks a lot

Less than a year.

at6d
06-08-2018, 08:52 AM
In many ways, the turboprops are more difficult to fly than the jets and have different challenges.

In this scenario, itís still 121 turbine PIC time.

That being said, experience in a variety of 121 aircraft would always be good for an applicant.

fenix1
06-08-2018, 11:46 PM
Horizon is moving toward having a split fleet (Q400's & E175's) that could be a great thing (2 type ratings if things go well), but there's been some messy in rolling out the E175's (more 175's than planned have ended up with SkyWest instead of Horizon) so I'm curious to see how this actually plays out.

Personally, I love the idea of flying the Q400's with Horizon (no shiny jet syndrome here) and my only concern is making sure I wouldn't be hurting my ability to get hired after that at a major or legacy. I've heard many share the same perspective that you did below - turboprops are a real challenge, especially on the Cat III approaches in weather that Horizon flies - but I can see major/legacy hiring authorities being concerned about the slower speeds of turboprops (ie, greater training risk) & hiring pilots with all RJ time instead (which is in no short supply clearly).


I appreciate your help and insight.

In many ways, the turboprops are more difficult to fly than the jets and have different challenges.

In this scenario, itís still 121 turbine PIC time.

That being said, experience in a variety of 121 aircraft would always be good for an applicant.

moflyer
06-09-2018, 04:07 PM
Isn't silver shrinking? I don't see them lasting that much longer but who knows.

They are getting a brand new fleet of ATR-42ís and maybe 72ís. Not sure how they will staff them, but it will be better than the Saab.

rickair7777
06-11-2018, 06:26 AM
Interesting perspective - thank you - but can you please explain & elaborate further? Please note that I’m not necessarily disagreeing, but instead I’m genuinely interested in better understanding where you’re coming from here!

They have no formal flow, AS has shifted much new flying to OO, upgrade has historically been long, and they have a lot a turboprops (although they are growing jets, that has not gone as well as planned).

QX is good if you're hell-bent on living in one of their bases, and not in a big hurry to upgrade and move (but SWA really likes TPIC).

Swingline78
06-11-2018, 08:48 AM
They have no formal flow, AS has shifted much new flying to OO, upgrade has historically been long, and they have a lot a turboprops (although they are growing jets, that has not gone as well as planned).

QX is good if you're hell-bent on living in one of their bases, and not in a big hurry to upgrade and move (but SWA really likes TPIC).

Don't go near anything touching Alaska airlines group right now unless you are a die hard PNW guy (which I get it if you are). No one is happy there. Just check out the knife fight going on over on the Alaska boards. Horizon has a good people working there, like all places, but their management is not making stellar decisions for their employees. They are an all pain and no promises organization. Just go to Skywest, Envoy or whatever suck up the crappy location for like 5 years and then pick your major. It's going to be a seller's market

fenix1
06-11-2018, 10:33 PM
Many thanks. I understand the fact that 5/6thís of the QX fleet today is turboprops, although I get very mixed inputs on how much turboprop vs turbofan really matters toward getting picked up by a major or legacy (especially considering the challenging flying that QX does with the Q400ís). Does SWA only count turbofan (NOT turboprop) time toward the 1000 TPIC in their application process?

QX staffing was an issue in the recent past (cancelled a bunch of flights), but now resolved (actually a surplus of E175 crews as I understand it). Near as I can see, the E175 flying originally intended for QX but now being shifted to OO is fallout from the strategic decision by Alaska Air Group to delay E175 deliveries for financial reasons to pretty up the books post-merger with VX (with that flying done by OO-owned E175ís instead). Is there more to the story?

They have no formal flow, AS has shifted much new flying to OO, upgrade has historically been long, and they have a lot a turboprops (although they are growing jets, that has not gone as well as planned).

QX is good if you're hell-bent on living in one of their bases, and not in a big hurry to upgrade and move (but SWA really likes TPIC).

fenix1
06-11-2018, 10:47 PM
Thanks a lot - Iím watching post-merger Alaska (AS) closely, but Iím so far from a major or legacy that they could well be right side up again by when Iíd get the call.

Weíd really like to make The Rockies home for the long haul, but may end up doing exactly as you suggested - taking a 5-ish year business trip to the Midwest or East for a regional in a great spot, only to work back west back for the destination job (SWA out of DEN would be phenomenal!).


Don't go near anything touching Alaska airlines group right now unless you are a die hard PNW guy (which I get it if you are). No one is happy there. Just check out the knife fight going on over on the Alaska boards. Horizon has a good people working there, like all places, but their management is not making stellar decisions for their employees. They are an all pain and no promises organization. Just go to Skywest, Envoy or whatever suck up the crappy location for like 5 years and then pick your major. It's going to be a seller's market

ipdanno
06-15-2018, 08:38 AM
. ...Does SWA only count turbofan (NOT turboprop) time toward the 1000 TPIC in their application process? ...

You will note is says "TPIC", not TpPIC or TfPIC.

A new hire classmate (in 2008) had no straight jet time, just 1900s and SAABs. He was our junior bubba, at 27 yrs old.

SWA does not seem to prejudice turboprop time at all. I had 4000 hrs using the Allison T56A7 slinging around big Ham-Sandwich four-bladed barn doors. And 4000 hrs of the first gen high bypass turbofan, the GE TF39. Which was more fun? 😜



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