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View Full Version : EDV worth the wait?


Death2Daleks
03-20-2018, 09:04 AM
I recently got the CJO a few weeks back. Being told the wait could be as long as FALL for a class date. Ready to go NOW, have other offers (Republic), but really want to hold out for the BEST. Thoughts on whether I should wait up to 6 months or start class now?


mpet
03-20-2018, 09:18 AM
Sounds like a personal decision. Thanks for the thread

PotatoChip
03-20-2018, 09:50 AM
I recently got the CJO a few weeks back. Being told the wait could be as long as FALL for a class date. Ready to go NOW, have other offers (Republic), but really want to hold out for the BEST. Thoughts on whether I should wait up to 6 months or start class now?

Iíd start class somewhere now. The ďbestĒ changes once a year anyway.


AimHigh1
03-20-2018, 10:03 AM
Don't wait..Go somewhere that will take you asap. It will be the best decision for your career imo.

msprj2
03-20-2018, 10:10 AM
I recently got the CJO a few weeks back. Being told the wait could be as long as FALL for a class date. Ready to go NOW, have other offers (Republic), but really want to hold out for the BEST. Thoughts on whether I should wait up to 6 months or start class now?

I would probably try to let Endeavor know you can go ASAP if thereís a no-show in
New hire class

amcnd
03-20-2018, 10:15 AM
Go to Republic now. Keep you offer. See how the Compass/rumors shakes out. That could pause hiring longer if they take all the Compass pilots but only the DL 175ís..

Al Czervik
03-20-2018, 10:54 AM
I recently got the CJO a few weeks back. Being told the wait could be as long as FALL for a class date. Ready to go NOW, have other offers (Republic), but really want to hold out for the BEST. Thoughts on whether I should wait up to 6 months or start class now?

Do not wait. EDV may be the best today, it won’t be in the future. That’s how the regional game has always been played.

Casualinterest
03-20-2018, 11:03 AM
Seniority is huge in this game. I think you'd be really happy here, and make a lot of money. But that being said, it's hard to justify waiting even six months when that can mean the difference between a major and furlough. There are other good places to be right now.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

wiggy15
03-20-2018, 11:32 AM
Echo the others. EDV is a great place to work, but I'm not sure it's worth 6 months seniority lost. I'd go with your gut and if you think you'd be happy at somewhere that can offer an earlier class date, then id go for it.

HighFlight
03-20-2018, 12:01 PM
Waiting is seniority is money lost. Go to PDT, they will pay you to stay at home while you wait for EDV to call you. ;)

A bird in the hand is always better than three in the bush.

amcnd
03-20-2018, 01:40 PM
Waiting is seniority is money lost. Go to PDT, they will pay you to stay at home while you wait for EDV to call you. ;)

A bird in the hand is always better than three in the bush.

Thats a good idea!! Go somewhere. What if you wait and they push you off another 6 months. Reality is you never know... tell you retire at 65 and look back..

saab340driver
03-20-2018, 01:59 PM
I recently got the CJO a few weeks back. Being told the wait could be as long as FALL for a class date. Ready to go NOW, have other offers (Republic), but really want to hold out for the BEST. Thoughts on whether I should wait up to 6 months or start class now?

I can say without a doubt to GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. If your goal is to work at a legacy carrier one day, you'd be wise to take a position with Envoy, Piedmont, or PSA (currently Piedmont has the quickest flow to American).

At any of those three, you will have a much better shot at a Delta interview and job. And if that falls through, you still have United. And if that falls through, the end game default is a Captain position flying at American making $500k. My friend, Endeavor Air cannot promise you that. Don't let any recruiter tell you otherwise. You never want to sit in a pool waiting for a class date at a regional airline in this pilot shortage climate. Endeavor is dealing with major issues now that the poor work rules are becoming a reality in NYC. The moral is deepening because the pathway to Delta is so uncertain for most of our pilots (ie ...most don't trust Delta).
So, in short, move on before too much time passes...

Casualinterest
03-20-2018, 02:13 PM
I can say without a doubt to GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. If your goal is to work at a legacy carrier one day, you'd be wise to take a position with Envoy, Piedmont, or PSA (currently Piedmont has the quickest flow to American).

At any of those three, you will have a much better shot at a Delta interview and job. And if that falls through, you still have United. And if that falls through, the end game default is a Captain position flying at American making $500k. My friend, Endeavor Air cannot promise you that. Don't let any recruiter tell you otherwise. You never want to sit in a pool waiting for a class date at a regional airline in this pilot shortage climate. Endeavor is dealing with major issues now that the poor work rules are becoming a reality in NYC. The moral is deepening because the pathway to Delta is so uncertain for most of our pilots (ie ...most don't trust Delta).
So, in short, move on before too much time passes...It really isn't this bad........But to his point, don't wait around. You're in demand.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

SomeAv8tor
03-20-2018, 03:47 PM
Waiting is seniority is money lost. Go to PDT, they will pay you to stay at home while you wait for EDV to call you. ;)

A bird in the hand is always better than three in the bush.

What this guy said. Might as well get paid if EDV is what you really want. Plus I can offer Crashpad in phl if you decide to stay at pdt.

Death2Daleks
03-20-2018, 08:06 PM
Thanks for the replies, all, lots of food for thought.

Paid2fly
03-20-2018, 11:37 PM
I can say without a doubt to GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. If your goal is to work at a legacy carrier one day, you'd be wise to take a position with Envoy, Piedmont, or PSA (currently Piedmont has the quickest flow to American).

At any of those three, you will have a much better shot at a Delta interview and job. And if that falls through, you still have United. And if that falls through, the end game default is a Captain position flying at American making $500k. My friend, Endeavor Air cannot promise you that. Don't let any recruiter tell you otherwise. You never want to sit in a pool waiting for a class date at a regional airline in this pilot shortage climate. Endeavor is dealing with major issues now that the poor work rules are becoming a reality in NYC. The moral is deepening because the pathway to Delta is so uncertain for most of our pilots (ie ...most don't trust Delta).
So, in short, move on before too much time passes...




Half a million a year at AA?

Philknight
03-21-2018, 04:37 AM
Half a million a year at AA?

Must run a side business where they make $400,000.

jonnyjetprop
03-21-2018, 04:41 AM
Half a million a year at AA?

If you get on at any airline one year earlier, the increase in compensation is that extra year of senior captains pay 20-30 years down the road. $500K maybe.

RedBaron36
03-21-2018, 06:34 AM
I am in the same situation, either wait for months on EDV or head off to RAH. Leaning more towards RAH because waiting that long and then possibly waiting more or something else happening is not worth the seniority you gain elsewhere is the message I am getting. The only caveat is with EDV I wouldn't have to commute but RAH I would. I am near DTW

Casualinterest
03-21-2018, 06:43 AM
I am in the same situation, either wait for months on EDV or head off to RAH. Leaning more towards RAH because waiting that long and then possibly waiting more or something else happening is not worth the seniority you gain elsewhere is the message I am getting. The only caveat is with EDV I wouldn't have to commute but RAH I would. I am near DTWDtw isn't super easy to hold, and holding a line there isn't as easy as other bases. You would likely commute here for a while anyway. And when you upgrade, you would most likely upgrade in ATL or NYC. While new hires can get dtw now from what I've been told, that is likely to change as the flying there smooths out.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

flydiamond
03-21-2018, 07:19 AM
Dtw isn't super easy to hold, and holding a line there isn't as easy as other bases. You would likely commute here for a while anyway. And when you upgrade, you would most likely upgrade in ATL or NYC. While new hires can get dtw now from what I've been told, that is likely to change as the flying there smooths out.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

I know things are out of wack right now with the 200 fleet shrinking, but On the fo side, dtw is currently the most junior 900 base as measured by most junior Lineholder. Yes, more junior than nyc. On the 200s, it is slightly less junior than ATL. Captain is also easily obtainable in DTW within 2 years. With attrition to Delta being strong and the C series entering N.Y. in the future, I wouldnít discount the possibility of banking on DTW. Now whether itís worth waiting 6 plus months for...

Death2Daleks
03-21-2018, 07:45 AM
I am in the same situation, either wait for months on EDV or head off to RAH. Leaning more towards RAH because waiting that long and then possibly waiting more or something else happening is not worth the seniority you gain elsewhere is the message I am getting. The only caveat is with EDV I wouldn't have to commute but RAH I would. I am near DTW

I feel you, man. Really want EDV, but not sure sitting around 6 months is worth it in this environment. With that said, the upgrade time at RAH is something like 4 years, so even waiting 6 months for EDV might still be the smarter choice.

moflyer
03-21-2018, 08:09 AM
I was hired in SkyWest in March of 07 and was able to upgrade in just over a year. People that were hired in April of 07 were not able to upgrade for 7 years, due to the economy tanking. I would take the first class at any decent regional.

FlyGood
03-21-2018, 11:16 AM
I feel you, man. Really want EDV, but not sure sitting around 6 months is worth it in this environment. With that said, the upgrade time at RAH is something like 4 years, so even waiting 6 months for EDV might still be the smarter choice.

Getting hired now at RPA and youíre probably looking at a 2.5 to 3 year upgrade. Wait 6 months to get hired at EDV and you might be looking at same time frame. Maybe, maybe not. As the post above said, take the first class at an airline that works for you. If RPA really doesnít work or if youíre dead set on EDV, then wait it out.

HighFlight
03-21-2018, 02:23 PM
Are you implying that SKW is a decent regional? :D

I was hired in SkyWest in March of 07 and was able to upgrade in just over a year. People that were hired in April of 07 were not able to upgrade for 7 years, due to the economy tanking. I would take the first class at any decent regional.

CaptYoda
03-21-2018, 03:41 PM
Take the first available class date if it suits you. A CJO is as implied "conditional." A lot can change in days, weeks, months. If you are set on a specific regional, quit when you actually have the class date.

Paid2fly
03-21-2018, 08:11 PM
If you get on at any airline one year earlier, the increase in compensation is that extra year of senior captains pay 20-30 years down the road. $500K maybe.







That's not the way Saab340driver stated it, he made it sound like annual salary(which is a complete fallacy)...

dera
03-21-2018, 09:15 PM
I can say without a doubt to GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. If your goal is to work at a legacy carrier one day, you'd be wise to take a position with Envoy, Piedmont, or PSA (currently Piedmont has the quickest flow to American).

At any of those three, you will have a much better shot at a Delta interview and job. And if that falls through, you still have United. And if that falls through, the end game default is a Captain position flying at American making $500k. My friend, Endeavor Air cannot promise you that. Don't let any recruiter tell you otherwise. You never want to sit in a pool waiting for a class date at a regional airline in this pilot shortage climate. Endeavor is dealing with major issues now that the poor work rules are becoming a reality in NYC. The moral is deepening because the pathway to Delta is so uncertain for most of our pilots (ie ...most don't trust Delta).
So, in short, move on before too much time passes...

You're a CKA at PDT, right?

E6BAV8R
03-24-2018, 02:54 PM
Are you implying that SKW is a decent regional? :D

Depending where you live, it could be. We'll also have to wait and see what the current negotiations yield. A lot will be really disappointed if it isn't, at minimum, the hourly pay of Republic. Management has stated they are embarrassed at what the current pay is.

Like any airline, it could be very good to get in now before the negotiations end.... or not.

Paid2fly
03-24-2018, 03:06 PM
Depending where you live, it could be. We'll also have to wait and see what the current negotiations yield. A lot will be really disappointed if it isn't, at minimum, the hourly pay of Republic. Management has stated they are embarrassed at what the current pay is.

Like any airline, it could be very good to get in now before the negotiations end.... or not.







"Management has stated they are embarrassed at what the current pay is."

Which manager(s) said this and when??:confused::confused:


P.S. They really should be(embarrassed)!

TalkTurkey
03-24-2018, 04:09 PM
"Management has stated they are embarrassed at what the current pay is."

Which manager(s) said this and when??:confused::confused:


P.S. They really should be(embarrassed)!

But they get to fly exclusively where no other regionals fly. Theyíre the best. Live with it. Hello Aspen.

RedBaron36
03-28-2018, 12:58 PM
Take the first available class date if it suits you. A CJO is as implied "conditional." A lot can change in days, weeks, months. If you are set on a specific regional, quit when you actually have the class date.

I have heard this advice before, start training with another airline then when you have the class date for the airline you actually want, quit. Wonder how it looks on a resume tho

CaptYoda
03-28-2018, 02:56 PM
It's not ideal but as long as it's not a pattern it should not pose a problem. You should be able to articulate a reasonable explanation as to your decision to do so (commuting, family etc). Once you get on with your "choice" airline stay there, upgrade and move on in a normal career progression trajectory. Next stop should be a non-lateral move. The other option is to wait it out if you are able. Remember once you start training, you might be obligated financially if you receive any signing bonuses and if you have any hiccups in training it may affect your ability to get on elsewhere (PRIA reportable events).

msprj2
03-28-2018, 05:43 PM
Depending where you live, it could be. We'll also have to wait and see what the current negotiations yield. A lot will be really disappointed if it isn't, at minimum, the hourly pay of Republic. Management has stated they are embarrassed at what the current pay is.

Like any airline, it could be very good to get in now before the negotiations end.... or not.

Are you for real? The pilots should be emb

msprj2
03-28-2018, 05:44 PM
Are you for real? The pilots should be emb

Embarrassed. They agreed to it

Mesabah
03-30-2018, 11:44 AM
Half a million a year at AA?
The current Delta top earner is over $600K. Very rare, and special case however.

Baradium
03-30-2018, 01:15 PM
Embarrassed. They agreed to it

The best part is that SkyWest isn't even unionized anyway. It's not like there is some force field preventing the company from giving more money if they are "embarrassed" by current pay. Even if they were unionized, do you think a union out there would say no to a free pay increase if there were no strings attached?

Nonbinding pilot "agreement" to changes to policy is an amazing scam they have going.

Chunk
03-30-2018, 04:46 PM
The current Delta top earner is over $600K. Very rare, and special case however.

SWA has the ď500 clubĒ. Doable

WhiskeyDelta
03-31-2018, 03:26 AM
The current Delta top earner is over $600K. Very rare, and special case however.


I know of one who made $750k in 2016. Had less than 8 days off a month. More power to him, though.

Swagship
03-31-2018, 07:47 AM
I know of one who made $750k in 2016. Had less than 8 days off a month. More power to him, though.

That's a lot of alimony.

Unpilot
03-31-2018, 10:41 AM
I know of one who made $750k in 2016. Had less than 8 days off a month. More power to him, though.


First it's your time for the money...then it's your money for more time.

UNDGUY
03-31-2018, 11:01 AM
Don't leave us hanging. It's been 11 days since your original post. You could have already been in ground school somewhere in that amount of time. In all seriousness, Endeavor is great and it's been first class all the way since I've been here, but I think your timing was off by a couple months. I would not wait. This biz is way too unpredictable to know whats going to happen in six months. Go somewhere that doesn't have a long wait for a class or a long delay in their training department and start building that flight time as quick as possible. The wave is going up right now and no one knows how long it will last. You better get on and ride it up as soon as possible. Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

Casualinterest
03-31-2018, 01:42 PM
Don't leave us hanging. It's been 11 days since your original post. You could have already been in ground school somewhere in that amount of time. In all seriousness, Endeavor is great and it's been first class all the way since I've been here, but I think your timing was off by a couple months. I would not wait. This biz is way too unpredictable to know whats going to happen in six months. Go somewhere that doesn't have a long wait for a class or a long delay in their training department and start building that flight time as quick as possible. The wave is going up right now and no one knows how long it will last. You better get on and ride it up as soon as possible. Good luck in whatever you choose to do.I'm also starting to get concerned that we're not bleeding Captains like we once were. And without a new aircraft announcement CA movement will be much lighter than it was. All Captain vacancies filled on this last final means no more reduced mins in the future, and new ca reserve times will climb even further

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prex8390
03-31-2018, 04:18 PM
I'm also starting to get concerned that we're not bleeding Captains like we once were. And without a new aircraft announcement CA movement will be much lighter than it was. All Captain vacancies filled on this last final means no more reduced mins in the future, and new ca reserve times will climb even further

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Donít worry the merger announcement with compass will be soon

VIRotate
04-01-2018, 01:47 AM
Donít worry the merger announcement with compass will be soon

You know what is funny though, our new badges as of February say "Property of Delta Air Lines, Inc" with an ATL address on the back." Just makes you wonder.

UNDGUY
04-01-2018, 04:14 AM
You know what is funny though, our new badges as of February say "Property of Delta Air Lines, Inc" with an ATL address on the back." Just makes you wonder.

Date of hire merger with no fences for Endeavor and Delta. I'm pretty sure that's why they did that.

Baradium
04-01-2018, 04:29 AM
You know what is funny though, our new badges as of February say "Property of Delta Air Lines, Inc" with an ATL address on the back." Just makes you wonder.

Badges have said that for years now.

Baradium
04-01-2018, 05:16 AM
Badges have said that for years now.

Can't edit, I thought he was talking about 9E badges. I think he's CP

Casualinterest
04-01-2018, 08:24 AM
Date of hire merger with no fences for Endeavor and Delta. I'm pretty sure that's why they did that.Love it lol

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VIRotate
04-01-2018, 01:17 PM
Badges have said that for years now.

Yeah Iím at CP and this is new. Badges issued before February said Compass Airlines, LLC. After Feb, itís Delta. Just odd.

TalkTurkey
04-01-2018, 02:28 PM
You know what is funny though, our new badges as of February say "Property of Delta Air Lines, Inc" with an ATL address on the back." Just makes you wonder.

It's said that way before February as well.

TalkTurkey
04-01-2018, 02:30 PM
Yeah Iím at CP and this is new. Badges issued before February said Compass Airlines, LLC. After Feb, itís Delta. Just odd.

hmmmm I say someone with more time than me look up some SEC filings and post when that happened.

VIRotate
04-01-2018, 02:53 PM
It's said that way before February as well.

This is new for us over at CP. previously badges said property of Compass Airlines. Now itís says property of Delta Airlines. Just adding to the rumor mill!

msprj2
04-01-2018, 03:14 PM
This is new for us over at CP. previously badges said property of Compass Airlines. Now itís says property of Delta Airlines. Just adding to the rumor mill!

Welcome to EDV. Hope you enjoy your flight

Baradium
04-01-2018, 03:27 PM
Yeah Iím at CP and this is new. Badges issued before February said Compass Airlines, LLC. After Feb, itís Delta. Just odd.

My best guess would be Delta is producing the badges there at MSP. I don't expect that'd be one of the first things they'd do if major changes were coming. It's not like badges have to be done preemptively.

Death2Daleks
04-01-2018, 05:54 PM
Don't leave us hanging. It's been 11 days since your original post. You could have already been in ground school somewhere in that amount of time. In all seriousness, Endeavor is great and it's been first class all the way since I've been here, but I think your timing was off by a couple months. I would not wait. This biz is way too unpredictable to know whats going to happen in six months. Go somewhere that doesn't have a long wait for a class or a long delay in their training department and start building that flight time as quick as possible. The wave is going up right now and no one knows how long it will last. You better get on and ride it up as soon as possible. Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

I have been struggling to get interviews lined up with my schedule and the interviewers. Had to reschedule several times now. I don't believe in fate much, but my gut is going heavily in favor of EDV.

flywithjohn
04-06-2018, 04:37 AM
Tell training your ready now and go elsewhere if they don't move you up. Seniority is everything, now and later. You start flying sooner, upgrade sooner, majors sooner with more seniority. 9E is best now, will it be in 6 months? Maybe.

msprj2
04-06-2018, 05:07 AM
There are no guarantees in life or airlines. Just because you start
at one regional over another doesn't mean you will get hired at a major
sooner or upgrade sooner either. It sounds like the washout rate
for new hires is 20% at most regionals and closer to 30% for upgrades.
Worry less about the 6 months and more about passing where ever
you end up.

gojo
04-06-2018, 09:06 AM
There are no guarantees in life or airlines. Just because you start
at one regional over another doesn't mean you will get hired at a major
sooner or upgrade sooner either. It sounds like the washout rate
for new hires is 20% at most regionals and closer to 30% for upgrades.
Worry less about the 6 months and more about passing where ever
you end up.

If someone is worried about passing training for whatever reason, I might suggest going somewhere with a reputable training program. Just my .02

msprj2
04-06-2018, 12:41 PM
If someone is worried about passing training for whatever reason, I might suggest going somewhere with a reputable training program. Just my .02

If your not worried about passing, something is wrong.

gojo
04-06-2018, 01:39 PM
If your not worried about passing, something is wrong.

Lol, true. But some regionals have much higher training failures

theUpsideDown
04-06-2018, 02:17 PM
If your not worried about passing, something is wrong.

I wasn't worried. Do the work they tell you to do. Ive watch years of new hire classes learn whatever they felt like a fail or do poorly.

Stay focused, do what you're told, you know... Like a job. If you're worried there's something wrong.

Lol, true. But some regionals have much higher training failures

A very few who try to build them.

gojo
04-06-2018, 02:39 PM
I wasn't worried. Do the work they tell you to do. Ive watch years of new hire classes learn whatever they felt like a fail or do poorly.

Stay focused, do what you're told, you know... Like a job. If you're worried there's something wrong.



A very few who try to build them.

The candidates that are being hired in the regionals come from a very wide spectrum these days. Some are very rusty having taken many years off. Some just want to try something new at an older age. I could provide other examples, but I think you get the point. Going to GoJet for example might not be a smart choice. And Iím not trying to open up a can of worms about GoJet

theUpsideDown
04-06-2018, 03:06 PM
The candidates that are being hired in the regionals come from a very wide spectrum these days. Some are very rusty having taken many years off. Some just want to try something new at an older age. I could provide other examples, but I think you get the point. Going to GoJet for example might not be a smart choice. And Iím not trying to open up a can of worms about GoJet

And these days they get 2x-4x the sim sessions and chances we got. Can't pass the paper tiger? Fired. Need more than 10 sim sessions to master the Saab? IDK man, find another career, everyone else got it done in 8.

Get bored go through trim and your new hires. Have a bad fo? Go through his trim, you'll quickly figure out you're not crazy.

Aptaper
04-06-2018, 04:30 PM
And these days they get 2x-4x the sim sessions and chances we got. Can't pass the paper tiger? Fired. Need more than 10 sim sessions to master the Saab? IDK man, find another career, everyone else got it done in 8.

Get bored go through trim and your new hires. Have a bad fo? Go through his trim, you'll quickly figure out you're not crazy.

The only problem with looking at Trim is it doesnít give any details as to why a lesson was repeated. They could have had a bad day or the sim could have failed. So itís a pointless resource.

msprj2
04-06-2018, 04:43 PM
And these days they get 2x-4x the sim sessions and chances we got. Can't pass the paper tiger? Fired. Need more than 10 sim sessions to master the Saab? IDK man, find another career, everyone else got it done in 8.

Get bored go through trim and your new hires. Have a bad fo? Go through his trim, you'll quickly figure out you're not crazy.

Quit ďworrying ď about others.

HighFlight
04-06-2018, 06:13 PM
Stupid idea, period. Have flown with 18 year CAs who made mistakes. Have flown with 6 month FOs who make mistakes. Everyone has bad days.

Just had a situation go badly on arrival into ATL when the CA updated the changed approach, but failed to EXEC when I confirmed it. I went to sequence the approach, and was confused by the waypoints. Took a few seconds to realize I was on the previous arrival, and he was on the new one, but it wasnít active. So we flew thru the course. Quickly corrected, but the mistake was already made. It happens. And it was a ďseniorĒ cockpit.

And these days they get 2x-4x the sim sessions and chances we got. Can't pass the paper tiger? Fired. Need more than 10 sim sessions to master the Saab? IDK man, find another career, everyone else got it done in 8.

Get bored go through trim and your new hires. Have a bad fo? Go through his trim, you'll quickly figure out you're not crazy.

theUpsideDown
04-07-2018, 05:00 AM
There I go touching a nerve. My work here is done.

msprj2
04-07-2018, 06:03 AM
There I go touching a nerve. My work here is done.

Good news for the rest of us.
Good bye

theUpsideDown
04-07-2018, 06:48 AM
Good news for the rest of us.
Good bye

And I'm back.
Blame it on the PHX sim people, it's ok! I forgive you!

msprj2
04-07-2018, 08:41 AM
And I'm back.
Blame it on the PHX sim people, it's ok! I forgive you!

Of course. Not that you incompleted that MV because of somthing you didnt do.

Blueskies21
04-07-2018, 09:34 AM
There I go touching a nerve. My work here is done.Haha.

We'll assume at least a few of those guys must have had repeat sims and are sensitive about it.

On the flip side, I assume whatever training issues they might have had are resolved before they passed the checkride and made it to the line, so I probably wouldn't bother to go look at trim.

If I think they've still got some sort of deficiency after training, as a Captain my job is to provide them mentoring and instruction and if I think that's insufficient, I guess I'd need to go to Pro Standards or fill out a New Hire assessment with my concerns.

Flogger
04-07-2018, 03:27 PM
Haha.

We'll assume at least a few of those guys must have had repeat sims and are sensitive about it.

On the flip side, I assume whatever training issues they might have had are resolved before they passed the checkride and made it to the line, so I probably wouldn't bother to go look at trim.

If I think they've still got some sort of deficiency after training, as a Captain my job is to provide them mentoring and instruction and if I think that's insufficient, I guess I'd need to go to Pro Standards or fill out a New Hire assessment with my concerns.

I certainly hope people have better things to do than surf TRIM looking for repeat sims? There are many reasons for repeat sims and you just can't judge from that.

I had a broken sim and it took them 3 weeks to get us back on the schedule. We had completed the previous lesson, but they had us repeat it, after a warmup sim.

teddy3412
04-08-2018, 03:47 AM
I certainly hope people have better things to do than surf TRIM looking for repeat sims? There are many reasons for repeat sims and you just can't judge from that.

I had a broken sim and it took them 3 weeks to get us back on the schedule. We had completed the previous lesson, but they had us repeat it, after a warmup sim.

You could have also done a repeat because of a sim partner needing to do a lesson again to catch up.

TalkTurkey
04-08-2018, 06:27 AM
There are no guarantees in life or airlines. Just because you start
at one regional over another doesn't mean you will get hired at a major
sooner or upgrade sooner either. It sounds like the washout rate
for new hires is 20% at most regionals and closer to 30% for upgrades.
Worry less about the 6 months and more about passing where ever
you end up.

ActuLly there are guarantees in life. Youíre guaranteed to make doctor visits, die and pay taxes.

msprj2
04-08-2018, 07:36 AM
ActuLly there are guarantees in life. Youíre guaranteed to make doctor visits, die and pay taxes.

You got the middle one right.

prex8390
04-11-2018, 11:30 AM
So apparently people are being told not to expect a class date until 2019 now If they were to interview today.

UNDGUY
04-11-2018, 11:57 AM
So apparently people are being told not to expect a class date until 2019 now If they were to interview today.

Interviewing for a class that is nine months in the future seems pretty silly and a waste of time and money for both the employer and the interviewee. If that is true I would think they would just stop interviewing for now.

msprj2
04-11-2018, 12:06 PM
So apparently people are being told not to expect a class date until 2019 now If they were to interview today.

I Guess were not getting any more 700's. Merger???

HighFlight
04-11-2018, 08:55 PM
Weíre getting stapled to the bottom of Mesaís list. At least weíll have a flow now...

I Guess were not getting any more 700's. Merger???

msprj2
04-12-2018, 04:20 AM
Weíre getting stapled to the bottom of Mesaís list. At least weíll have a flow now...

No staple. Sold possibly or merged???

Avroman
04-12-2018, 09:28 AM
Delta will never accept losing face by allowing all the SSP (and soon to be DGI) rejects from flowing onto the Delta list. Delta IS pushing for a flow, but basically a reboot of the ETD. Interviewed and vetted to "Delta standards" then put their time in here. ALPA can't agree to that without an ugly lawsuit from just about everyone already here so you have a basically permanent roadblock (or at least one that would last a generation)
Look at the Bleep storm that is going on just over the minimal change in standby priority. Could you imagine the uproar by the old guard if Endeavor (or anyone else) were just "gifted" a job at the mighty Delta?
If you want a flow, go to the American regionals.

clueless
04-13-2018, 04:07 PM
If I think they've still got some sort of deficiency after training, as a Captain my job is to provide them mentoring and instruction and if I think that's insufficient, I guess I'd need to go to Pro Standards or fill out a New Hire assessment with my concerns.

Agree, but only partially...

Those new hire assessments are management's attempt to bypass Professional Standards. I know when I was a new hire, the ACP would read the CA's comments to me during the quarterly meetings... "Captain Joe Schmoe said that you handled a crosswind landing into Dulles" or "Captain whoever said you did good here or there".

So as a captain, there is no way that I am writing anything negative about any pilot on that new hire assessment. If I think of something the FO can improve on, I'll tell him/her. If for some reason my instruction and guidance isn't sufficient, and I think the issue still needs to be addressed, I'll go to pro standards. I'm NOT writing a comment to management telling them...that's for sure.

seminolepilot
04-13-2018, 05:01 PM
Agree, but only partially...

Those new hire assessments are management's attempt to bypass Professional Standards. I know when I was a new hire, the ACP would read the CA's comments to me during the quarterly meetings... "Captain Joe Schmoe said that you handled a crosswind landing into Dulles" or "Captain whoever said you did good here or there".

So as a captain, there is no way that I am writing anything negative about any pilot on that new hire assessment. If I think of something the FO can improve on, I'll tell him/her. If for some reason my instruction and guidance isn't sufficient, and I think the issue still needs to be addressed, I'll go to pro standards. I'm NOT writing a comment to management telling them...that's for sure.

I feel the same way, Iíve never been a fan of the new hire assessments. It seems like itís ammo for the company to use if something happens before the probation period is up. Most new hires are pretty sharp but if someone isnít I rather them get the help they need vs. getting drug into the office to hear a ridiculous lecture.

Blueskies21
04-13-2018, 06:22 PM
Agree, but only partially...

Those new hire assessments are management's attempt to bypass Professional Standards. I know when I was a new hire, the ACP would read the CA's comments to me during the quarterly meetings... "Captain Joe Schmoe said that you handled a crosswind landing into Dulles" or "Captain whoever said you did good here or there".

So as a captain, there is no way that I am writing anything negative about any pilot on that new hire assessment. If I think of something the FO can improve on, I'll tell him/her. If for some reason my instruction and guidance isn't sufficient, and I think the issue still needs to be addressed, I'll go to pro standards. I'm NOT writing a comment to management telling them...that's for sure.I guess I've been lucky. I haven't had any FO's I thought I needed to go to Pro Standards or fill out a bad new hire assessment for. As such I guess I hadn't really considered it but you're right, probably better to just do Pro Standards vs the new hire assessment for the reasons mentioned.

Casualinterest
04-14-2018, 05:02 AM
I guess I've been lucky. I haven't had any FO's I thought I needed to go to Pro Standards or fill out a bad new hire assessment for. As such I guess I hadn't really considered it but you're right, probably better to just do Pro Standards vs the new hire assessment for the reasons mentioned.When I was on probation I flew with a CA that was a complete dick. Bitter to the end, hated life, divorced X times, blah blah blah. When I got my reviews I had like a dozen glowing ones and one from that guy where he attacked me personally. Not a word about my flying, my personality. I literally laughed.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

seminolepilot
04-14-2018, 08:13 AM
When I was on probation I flew with a CA that was a complete dick. Bitter to the end, hated life, divorced X times, blah blah blah. When I got my reviews I had like a dozen glowing ones and one from that guy where he attacked me personally. Not a word about my flying, my personality. I literally laughed.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Unfortunately itís always that one, or two that want the world to be miserable with them.

TransWorld
04-14-2018, 08:58 AM
When I was on probation I flew with a CA that was a complete dick. Bitter to the end, hated life, divorced X times, blah blah blah. When I got my reviews I had like a dozen glowing ones and one from that guy where he attacked me personally. Not a word about my flying, my personality. I literally laughed

If you don’t have one, I would think you stacked the deck.

I read a quote once, 96% of people in work are decent, some more or less, and everyone has an off day every now and then. Then their are 4% of the people you run into that are a s—-head. I have found that is about the right ratio.

theUpsideDown
04-14-2018, 09:47 AM
When I was on probation I flew with a CA that was a complete dick. Bitter to the end, hated life, divorced X times, blah blah blah. When I got my reviews I had like a dozen glowing ones and one from that guy where he attacked me personally. Not a word about my flying, my personality. I literally laughed.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Never could get onboard with criticism to a probationary pilot in front of management, unless it was a drug/alcohol thing. Luckily never had that turn of the dice.

I would have loved to see the company keep the union mentoring program ideas instead now management yellow lanyard hat police. Yellow for cowardice.

Toss a bomb and run baby.