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View Full Version : Skywest or Compass?


Going2Baja
03-20-2018, 08:39 PM
Hi all, asking for a friend - he has offers with both. He eventually wants DAL. I'm former SkyW and loved every moment, but that was a long time ago. After reading some recent posts on both airlines it doesn't sound like anyone is happy. What's going on?

Baja.


flysooner9
03-21-2018, 02:34 AM
After reading some recent posts on both airlines it doesn't sound like anyone is happy. What's going on?

Baja.

Millennials

NewGuy01
03-21-2018, 04:19 AM
I started at SkyWest January of 2017. I spent 3 months in ORD and was able to hold SFO after that. Presently I am a line holder on the 175. Life is good my final bid at SkyWest for April has 17 days off at 75hrs. I think I did well with learning PBS. So that helped.

Training was excellent. CQ was not an issue. The people I work with were all great. I have no complaints and I’m honestly a little sad to leave. Compared to my 91/135 experiences SkyWest has been a blessing. I came here burned out on aviation and now I love it again.

Potential future problems and current problems: SkyWest has a really senior set of lifers. Good for them but it makes the prospect of holding captain at a West Coast base really daunting. Like 5 years for SFO. Also this issue is compounded by the West Coast bases apparently shrinking. I hear no new FOs have gotten into SFO for 9 months now.

Day to day it’s a regional and nothing is perfect. But I see the biggest issue going forward for SkyWest is a “brain drain”. Errryybody is trying to leave other than the lifers and they are being replaced by lower quality candidates (myself included). How SkyWest responds to this issue will make or break them going forward.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


amcnd
03-21-2018, 05:29 AM
Delta seems to be the top for taking OO guys. According to the graph. I would have thought it was SWA.... in this environment it realy doesn’t matter unless you lick a company that’s stagnants... (like XJT). Compass has some wild rumors going on right now, and no aircraft orders.. i would tell him SkyWest..

popNfresh
03-21-2018, 07:06 AM
Are you a gambler?
Compass
pros- $17,500 signing bonus, 2 year west coast upgrades, rumored to be bought by Delta and merged with endeavor, also rumored to be bought by Republic. Either way you get a raise.

Cons-No aircraft orders, compass owns ZERO airplanes, delta contract expires in 2020 and its all up in the air, they make you wear a hat and blazer.

SkyWest
Pros-solid company that doesn’t appear to be going anywhere anytime soon, owns all of their airplanes, 35 ERJs coming in this year, a metric ****** ton of bases to choose from.

Cons- I make less money at Skywest than every single one of my friends at other regionals(but I bid reserve and usually work maybe 2 locals per month), you are going to wait a long time to upgrade to the west coast 4 years right now, very short staffed on the CRJ and slightly overstaffed on the ERJ, LAGUARDIA...

To put things in perspective my friend that is at compass is going to upgrade just over her second year to PHX. When I asked I was told the most senior compass captain was 4 years... SkyWest’s most junior Phx captain is 6 1/2 years. Any compass base you are looking at 4-5 years to upgrade into at Skywest while their upgrade is around 2 years.

Cazadores
03-21-2018, 07:12 AM
Hi all, asking for a friend - he has offers with both. He eventually wants DAL. I'm former SkyW and loved every moment, but that was a long time ago. After reading some recent posts on both airlines it doesn't sound like anyone is happy. What's going on?



Baja.



I wouldn't say SkyWest's issues are any worse than what you would encounter at Compass, but since the two airlines he's considering indicate a preference for the West Coast, I'd say Compass. I have had it very good at SkyWest, and bid senior as an FO out west, while I fly with captains who just made it to the West Coast with near 10 years seniority and float near the bottom of line holders at best. For me to upgrade I'd be commuting to the Midwest or East Coast, after transitioning back to the CRJ, while friends at Compass hired about the same time as I was at OO are holding captain lines in LA.

They don't brag about how great Compass is, but frankly I'd just assume be a Captain on the 175 in LA than commuting to a deuce in Atlanta, or worse, and it's likely to stay that way for a while.

So, long story short, if the best coast is a priority SkyWest isn't really the best option, with Horizon and Compass both paying if only marginally more, and offering west coast advancement. If it isn't, well, it's a good place to work, you'll see literally every corner of the country, get a lot of experience in winter weather, and fly with some pretty interesting, good people.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

mpet
03-21-2018, 07:32 AM
Depends is your friend a nerd that wears long sleeve pilot shirts or those hideous black pullover sweaters? Does he want to wear epaulets on his leather jacket? Go to skywest.

Does he want to look normal? Go to compass

NewGuy01
03-21-2018, 07:36 AM
Depends is your friend a nerd that wears long sleeve pilot shirts or those hideous black pullover sweaters? Does he want to wear epaulets on his leather jacket? Go to skywest.



Does he want to look normal? Go to compass



Oh burn!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sn00p
03-21-2018, 07:47 AM
Depends is your friend a nerd that wears long sleeve pilot shirts or those hideous black pullover sweaters? Does he want to wear epaulets on his leather jacket? Go to skywest.

Does he want to look normal? Go to compass

Listen to the fashionista.

TheFly
03-21-2018, 07:49 AM
SkyWest. . .

popNfresh
03-21-2018, 07:54 AM
Depends is your friend a nerd that wears long sleeve pilot shirts or those hideous black pullover sweaters? Does he want to wear epaulets on his leather jacket? Go to skywest.

Does he want to look normal? Go to compass

Yeah but I don’t have to iron my shirt if I throw the sweater on... and sweaters are amazing...

nopantsILS
03-21-2018, 08:00 AM
SKW is very different from where you remember it. I would say away under most circumstances. All growth that a newb will benefit from is in the East.

With that being said Compass isn't a slam dunk anymore either. The contract expirations would definitely be on my mind if I were starting out or had started out in the last year. Both are bad choices IMHO, but Horizon and Compass deserve serious consideration if West coast basing is a must.

nopantsILS
03-21-2018, 08:02 AM
Millennials

Have you actually started class at SKW yet? Get back to me after 6 months of the "street ca" treatment in ATL or DTW.

metx192
03-21-2018, 08:17 AM
Depends is your friend a nerd that wears long sleeve pilot shirts or those hideous black pullover sweaters? Does he want to wear epaulets on his leather jacket? Go to skywest.

Does he want to look normal? Go to compass

The sweaters and long sleeves look stupid, but in the cold they're a necessity on the CRJ, especially the -200 with its horrible ECS. When you're sitting in the flight deck before departure, it gets awfully cold in DTW, MSP, ORD, and all the associated outstations. The jet bridge doesn't seal well at all and you're sitting right in front of that open door. If you fly four legs and spend 30 minutes in your seat before departure, that's two hours of your day spent in drafty cold. Our forward FAs usually wear their trench coats during boarding when it's cold out.

You don't have to worry about that in the 175 because it stays warmer. There isn't a need for a bridge adapter, and the jet bridge forms a much better seal. You have a lav between you and the cold, open door. I get it, we look stupid with our sweaters and long sleeves, but you can't make an apples-to-apples comparison with uniform "culture". Our routes and airplanes are different. I personally will never wear the hideous sweater again after leaving the CRJ.

flysooner9
03-21-2018, 08:39 AM
Have you actually started class at SKW yet? Get back to me after 6 months of the "street ca" treatment in ATL or DTW.

I know what I’m getting into. Been there done the commute to reserve game for years. Yes it sucks, but oh well. Hopefully it’ll be for less then 2 years. Fact is nobody on APC likes their regional. Also in general it’s always the same 20 people or so makin all the comments. Not saying Skywest will be great, just saying APC is the place the 10% most unhappy people come and trash their companies.

WesternSkies
03-21-2018, 08:42 AM
Depends is your friend a nerd that wears long sleeve pilot shirts or those hideous black pullover sweaters? Does he want to wear epaulets on his leather jacket? Go to skywest.

Does he want to look normal? Go to compass

The last to time short sleeves, a tie and pieces of flair were fashionable was at a Hitler Youth Summer Camp.

Nazis.

Fr8Thrust
03-21-2018, 09:39 AM
Pay: CP pays more & it’s block or better
Benefits: OO has better travel & HC, CP pays for parking & 4 hotels per month
Uniforms: CP has hats, OO has namebars
Movement: OO has lifers, CP does not
Hotels: OO has nicer hotels
Scheduling: CP has better work rules
Stability: OO is more stable
Culture: CP is younger
Union: CP is ALPA

Excargodog
03-21-2018, 05:42 PM
Pay: CP pays more & it’s block or better
Benefits: OO has better travel & HC, CP pays for parking & 4 hotels per month
Uniforms: CP has hats, OO has namebars
Movement: OO has lifers, CP does not
Hotels: OO has nicer hotels
Scheduling: CP has better work rules
Stability: OO is more stable
Culture: CP is younger
Union: CP is ALPA

OO has LGA
CP does NOT have LGA

zondaracer
03-21-2018, 06:58 PM
OO has LGA
CP does NOT have LGA

One man’s garbage is another man’s treasure.

word302
03-21-2018, 07:40 PM
Are you a gambler?
Compass
pros- $17,500 signing bonus, 2 year west coast upgrades, rumored to be bought by Delta and merged with endeavor, also rumored to be bought by Republic. Either way you get a raise.

Cons-No aircraft orders, compass owns ZERO airplanes, delta contract expires in 2020 and its all up in the air, they make you wear a hat and blazer.

SkyWest
Pros-solid company that doesn’t appear to be going anywhere anytime soon, owns all of their airplanes, 35 ERJs coming in this year, a metric ****** ton of bases to choose from.

Cons- I make less money at Skywest than every single one of my friends at other regionals(but I bid reserve and usually work maybe 2 locals per month), you are going to wait a long time to upgrade to the west coast 4 years right now, very short staffed on the CRJ and slightly overstaffed on the ERJ, LAGUARDIA...

To put things in perspective my friend that is at compass is going to upgrade just over her second year to PHX. When I asked I was told the most senior compass captain was 4 years... SkyWest’s most junior Phx captain is 6 1/2 years. Any compass base you are looking at 4-5 years to upgrade into at Skywest while their upgrade is around 2 years.

I think she’s stretching a little. Current Compass upgrade is pushing 3 years. They just throttled upgrades again.

word302
03-21-2018, 07:42 PM
Depends is your friend a nerd that wears long sleeve pilot shirts or those hideous black pullover sweaters? Does he want to wear epaulets on his leather jacket? Go to skywest.

Does he want to look normal? Go to compass

Lol. You’re a tool.

word302
03-21-2018, 07:46 PM
Pay: CP pays more & it’s block or better
Benefits: OO has better travel & HC, CP pays for parking & 4 hotels per month
Uniforms: CP has hats, OO has namebars
Movement: OO has lifers, CP does not
Hotels: OO has nicer hotels
Scheduling: CP has better work rules
Stability: OO is more stable
Culture: CP is younger
Union: CP is ALPA

Better work rules? Do tell. Can’t really argue with the rest.

Excargodog
03-21-2018, 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
OO has LGA
CP does NOT have LGA
One man’s garbage is another man’s treasure.

Fair enough:

OO Has 3-4 mo ON RESERVE at LGA
CP does not

That better?

Poser765
03-22-2018, 05:28 AM
One man’s garbage is another man’s treasure.La Guardia is no Man's treasure.

amcnd
03-22-2018, 06:51 AM
La Guardia is no Man's treasure.


The standing bid list would suggest otherwise.. and thats for just a reserve line!!!

Utah
03-22-2018, 08:13 AM
La Guardia is no Man's treasure.

30+ Captains with it as their first choice to transfer/transition or upgrade and 160+ total willing to go there in the left seat. LGA left seat won't be going to new hires.

The FO side only has enough with their bid in to staff the initial opening for the 6 reserve slots.

amcnd
03-22-2018, 09:40 AM
Compass 6 Upgrades a month. SkyWest just posted 30 ERJ and 37 CRJ Upgrades for next month..

Excargodog
03-22-2018, 10:14 AM
Compass 6 Upgrades a month. SkyWest just posted 30 ERJ and 37 CRJ Upgrades for next month..

In fairness, Skywest 4500 pilots, Compass 650 pilots, which somewhat offsets those numbers, although clearly the FO shortage has rather dramatically slowed Compass upgrades. On the other hand, the FOs being hired today are promptly working their tails off, not sitting reserve. And with relatively few lifers, Compass will likely need to throttle upgrades right back up as a lot of the guys with 1000 hrs of TPIC go off to the majors this summer, assuming they survive the FO shortage. By the time a new hire gets a thousand hours of 121 time to qualify for upgrade things are likely to have drastically changed - one way or another.

Poser765
03-22-2018, 10:46 AM
The standing bid list would suggest otherwise.. and thats for just a reserve line!!!lol a point. The commute may be easier, but I can't imagine anyone actually thinks it's a treasure.

word302
03-22-2018, 10:57 AM
In fairness, Skywest 4500 pilots, Compass 650 pilots, which somewhat offsets those numbers, although clearly the FO shortage has rather dramatically slowed Compass upgrades. On the other hand, the FOs being hired today are promptly working their tails off, not sitting reserve. And with relatively few lifers, Compass will likely need to throttle upgrades right back up as a lot of the guys with 1000 hrs of TPIC go off to the majors this summer, assuming they survive the FO shortage. By the time a new hire gets a thousand hours of 121 time to qualify for upgrade things are likely to have drastically changed - one way or another.
Dude. You are the ultimate troll. Aren’t you the one who started the “do the math” thread over in the Compass forums? Are you just trying to **** everyone off?

Excargodog
03-22-2018, 12:00 PM
Dude. You are the ultimate troll. Aren’t you the one who started the “do the math” thread over in the Compass forums? Are you just trying to **** everyone off?

Why would giving what I believe to be an objective analysis **** everyone off. I opined on the Compass forum that throttling back captain upgrades due to the shortage of FOs would deter some candidates from going there and irritate senior Compass FOs. I stand by that analysis. The latest TA had approved TSH to use right seat captains as an interim fix for the FO shortage which would - in my opinion - have been a more expensive but better method of dealing with that shortfall. While I would concede you undoubtedly have more 121 experience than I do, such things as employee relations and recruiting issues are basic management functions, hardly unique to the 121 world. Posting advertisements touting "18-24 month upgrades" while throttling back to eight upgrades a month certainly presents some challenges to the recruiters in the competition for new hires that can successfully complete their type rating efficiently. And pretty much ALL regionals seem to be having more difficulty getting their new hires through training than they once did, based upon the postings in a number of these threads. But again, I was voicing an OPINION, one that could be accepted, debated, or entirely ignored, especially since it doesn't seem like anyone posting there (or here) had the ability to actually affect that decision one way or another.

As for the current comment I made that you are apparently castigating me for, what is your problem?

The guy compared a NUMBER of six upgrades a month (last I heard it was eight) for one company with 650 pilots to the NUMBER he claims are being upgraded by a second company that has 4500 pilots as if that were a fair comparison. It isn't. The appropriate comparison is the RATE of upgrades for FOs in the two companies.

I simply pointed out that this was not really a fair comparison and doing it that way unfairly disadvantaged Compass.

Now you may or may not agree with my opinion, and you are entirely free to rebut it or provide your own analysis or opinion, or just not read my posts at all. But how you determined from the above posting that I was somehow trying to **** you off is beyond me.

I'd appreciate an explanation.

flysooner9
03-22-2018, 01:03 PM
Compass 6 Upgrades a month. SkyWest just posted 30 ERJ and 37 CRJ Upgrades for next month..


Where were the CRJ CA slots at?

sn00p
03-22-2018, 01:19 PM
Where were the CRJ CA slots at?

MSP, ORD, DTW for junior bases.

amcnd
03-22-2018, 01:19 PM
Where were the CRJ CA slots at?

40 Openings for CRJ ( i said 37 earlyer, i miss counted..) DTW/MSP/ORD/IAH. ERJ ORD/SAN/SLC/LGA. Thats the vacancy. But other could be awarded based off of backfilling..

RJDio
03-22-2018, 06:59 PM
40 Openings for CRJ ( i said 37 earlyer, i miss counted..) DTW/MSP/ORD/IAH. ERJ ORD/SAN/SLC/LGA. Thats the vacancy. But other could be awarded based off of backfilling..

Are these true upgrades or are they still accounting for some transfers? I know when I was there what the DVR said and what actually was awarded were two completely different things.

amcnd
03-22-2018, 07:07 PM
Are these true upgrades or are they still accounting for some transfers? I know when I was there what the DVR said and what actually was awarded were two completely different things.

I just looked at the last DVR award 70 fo’s were awarded CA positions..

StlLifer
03-22-2018, 08:14 PM
Compass is a Hulas airline. Hulas has the reputation of running the best airlines and treating his employees better than any other airline treats theirs.

I have 10 years of experience with Hulas and can personally guarantee 95% of the people who go to one of his airlines that they will move up quickly to a better airline.

Gojet has had pilots move on to Delta, United, Spirit, Skywest, Mesa and other airlines. All of these moves have been a big step up. The only time I have seen a Hulas pilot move down is when some went from TSA to Gojet, a definite move down.

amcnd
03-23-2018, 03:45 AM
Compass is a Hulas airline. Hulas has the reputation of running the best airlines and treating his employees better than any other airline treats theirs.

I have 10 years of experience with Hulas and can personally guarantee 95% of the people who go to one of his airlines that they will move up quickly to a better airline.

Gojet has had pilots move on to Delta, United, Spirit, Skywest, Mesa and other airlines. All of these moves have been a big step up. The only time I have seen a Hulas pilot move down is when some went from TSA to Gojet, a definite move down.

Guess you weren’t there back in the late 90’s!!!...

rickair7777
03-23-2018, 03:57 AM
Compass is a Hulas airline. Hulas has the reputation of running the best airlines and treating his employees better than any other airline treats theirs.

I have 10 years of experience with Hulas and can personally guarantee 95% of the people who go to one of his airlines that they will move up quickly to a better airline.

Gojet has had pilots move on to Delta, United, Spirit, Skywest, Mesa and other airlines. All of these moves have been a big step up. The only time I have seen a Hulas pilot move down is when some went from TSA to Gojet, a definite move down.

???

I remember something about goats?

You must be afraid you'll lose your lifer job if you can't recruit some FOs.

word302
03-23-2018, 06:40 AM
I think you guys have a broken sarcasm sniffer.

AFSOCFlyr
03-23-2018, 10:17 AM
...that moment when you realize that the thread you had hoped would contain useful information/discussion is actually a thread like this one..:D;)

Going2Baja
03-23-2018, 10:28 AM
...that moment when you realize that the thread you had hoped would contain useful information/discussion is actually a thread like this one..:D;)

Right....????

Baja.

word302
03-23-2018, 10:40 AM
...that moment when you realize that the thread you had hoped would contain useful information/discussion is actually a thread like this one..:D;)

You really thought a thread asking "this airline or that airline" would contain anything other than "my airline...because" answers?

RJDio
03-23-2018, 10:52 AM
I just looked at the last DVR award 70 fo’s were awarded CA positions..

Wow. That's great. Enjoy it boys and girls.

Paid2fly
03-24-2018, 03:24 PM
Hi all, asking for a friend - he has offers with both. He eventually wants DAL. I'm former SkyW and loved every moment, but that was a long time ago. After reading some recent posts on both airlines it doesn't sound like anyone is happy. What's going on?

Baja.








It wasn't that long ago TF...






How ya been?

Going2Baja
03-25-2018, 04:20 PM
It wasn't that long ago TF...

How ya been?

18 years is long enough. Other than the fact that there are guys upgrading @ DAL now w/ 1yr on property. LOL . Times HAVE changed.

Baja.

P2F - PM Sent.

Seatownflyer
03-29-2018, 12:21 PM
I see nothing has changed here in the past few years in the Regional forum on APC. :rolleyes:

Squallrider
04-07-2018, 02:53 PM
Between these two SkyWest for sure. Compass has stagnated in comparison, no word on delta flying contract extension, rumors of sale..

friend
04-07-2018, 04:00 PM
If you want a west coast base compass 100%

Rumour compass might be bought my delta and intragrated into endouvers seniority list. Compass upgrade is 2 years

KelvinHelmholtz
04-07-2018, 04:18 PM
If you want a west coast base compass 100%

Rumour compass might be bought my delta and intragrated into endouvers seniority list. Compass upgrade is 2 years

There’s no way we are going to do seniority list integration with compass when 1/4 of our pilots have been here 10 years or more and 90% of their pilots were hired since 2015. It would be worse than the last SLI with Colgan

Excargodog
04-07-2018, 05:29 PM
There’s no way we are going to do seniority list integration with compass when 1/4 of our pilots have been here 10 years or more and 90% of their pilots were hired since 2015. It would be worse than the last SLI with Colgan

Ever hear of mcCaskill-Bond?

Seniority Integration And The Mccaskill-Bond Statute - Transport - United States (http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/x/164186/Aviation/Seniority+Integration+And+The+MccaskillBond+Statut e)

KelvinHelmholtz
04-07-2018, 05:38 PM
Ever hear of mcCaskill-Bond?

Seniority Integration And The Mccaskill-Bond Statute - Transport - United States (http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/x/164186/Aviation/Seniority+Integration+And+The+MccaskillBond+Statut e)

Yes I have. You obviously missed the point of my post

Excargodog
04-07-2018, 06:40 PM
Yes I have. You obviously missed the point of my post

So enlighten me.

word302
04-07-2018, 06:41 PM
If you want a west coast base compass 100%

Rumour compass might be bought my delta and intragrated into endouvers seniority list. Compass upgrade is 2 years

It's actually closer to 3 years right now.

my6FOh
04-07-2018, 06:48 PM
It's actually closer to 3 years right now.

Most jr upgrade last vacany was a 01/16 hire. Closer to 2 years.

amcnd
04-07-2018, 07:06 PM
Most jr upgrade last vacany was a 01/16 hire. Closer to 2 years.

A 2 year person was hired 2 years ago. Before the Compass not hiring mistake... someone hired today..??... who knows... its a gamble. Looking at the compass thread. It may jump to 3-3.5 years for awhile.. Just pick a place, go, find out in 2 years if you picked the right place... I've lost that game once.. and won once.. good luck

mpet
04-07-2018, 07:07 PM
A 2 year person was hired 2 years ago. Before the Compass not hiring mistake... someone hired today..??... who knows... its a gamble. Looking at the compass thread. It may jump to 3-3.5 years for awhile..

very doubtful, as somebody who came in at the worst possible time I'm looking at 2 years 5 months

KelvinHelmholtz
04-07-2018, 07:09 PM
So enlighten me.

All McCaskill Bond does is requires a “fair and equitable” merger of seniority lists to try to prevent another TWA which was basically a staple to the bottom of AA.

Fair and equitable in this context usually ends up being whatever the arbitrator says

All I’m saying is seniority list integration with a company that has the vast majority of its pilots hired within the last 4 years Will not be good for the 9E pilot group. The last SLI with Colgan was not even that bad (90% of pilots were hired in the 8 years before SLI as opposed to 4 with Compass).

mpet
04-07-2018, 07:51 PM
All McCaskill Bond does is requires a “fair and equitable” merger of seniority lists to try to prevent another TWA which was basically a staple to the bottom of AA.

Fair and equitable in this context usually ends up being whatever the arbitrator says

All I’m saying is seniority list integration with a company that has the vast majority of its pilots hired within the last 4 years Will not be good for the 9E pilot group. The last SLI with Colgan was not even that bad (90% of pilots were hired in the 8 years before SLI as opposed to 4 with Compass).

aint even gonna happen anyway so who cares

amcnd
04-07-2018, 08:31 PM
aint even gonna happen anyway so who cares

I agree. Endeavor saw how easy it was to staff the ASA jets. They knkw they can get the people if they just take the aircraft like they did with ASA. Plus TSA will want the pilots to make sure there E145 ops stays staffed...

mpet
04-07-2018, 09:43 PM
I agree. Endeavor saw how easy it was to staff the ASA jets. They knkw they can get the people if they just take the aircraft like they did with ASA. Plus TSA will want the pilots to make sure there E145 ops stays staffed...

most of the rumors were coming out of endeavor anyway

KelvinHelmholtz
04-08-2018, 03:39 AM
most of the rumors were coming out of endeavor anyway

I never heard any rumors of a merger here. Airplanes yes but nothing about a merger

Only saw that on this forum from compass pilots badges saying property of Delta

gojo
04-08-2018, 03:55 AM
most of the rumors were coming out of endeavor anyway

Nope, merger talk is Compass. People here don’t want a merger. Lots of people are still here after that last merger fiasco and don’t want to go down that road again. The biggest rumor comes from Delta themselves. They have publicly said they’re going down to 3 regionals. Endeavor and two others. I’m pretty sure they’re not going to cut Skywest or Republic. Company says that we’re getting more 700’s and possibly 175’s. Tells me that they’re going somewhere, but your guess is as good as mine

WesternSkies
04-08-2018, 06:29 AM
I totally buy they are going down to three regionals but then x-amount of time passes the whipsaw fires up heading the other way.

gojo
04-08-2018, 06:40 AM
I totally buy they are going down to three regionals but then x-amount of time passes the whipsaw fires up heading the other way.

What whipsaw? Looks like they’re just overlapping the regionals they’re going to end up with?

WesternSkies
04-08-2018, 06:43 AM
What whipsaw? Looks like they’re just overlapping the regionals they’re going to end up with?

You have Delta right where you want’em!! Good Job!!!

gojo
04-08-2018, 06:58 AM
You have Delta right where you want’em!! Good Job!!!

Cryptic much? Like one of my Air Force instructors used to say, “damnit I can’t shine a flashlight up your a$$and see what you’re thinking.” Why don’t you just say what you mean?

rickair7777
04-08-2018, 08:13 AM
There’s no way we are going to do seniority list integration with compass when 1/4 of our pilots have been here 10 years or more and 90% of their pilots were hired since 2015. It would be worse than the last SLI with Colgan

They're both ALPA right?

DOH will have little to do with it. ALPA is more specific than mccaskill-bond.

KelvinHelmholtz
04-08-2018, 08:30 AM
They're both ALPA right?

DOH will have little to do with it. ALPA is more specific than mccaskill-bond.

My point is merging a company with a significant senior pilot group and one where almost all the pilots are hired in the last 5 years will not turn out well for 9E, just look at how the 9E/XJ/9L SLI went last time.

It would likely go to arbitration and cause unwanted division to the pilot group

We could staff the compass flying without a merger just like we are doing the ASA flying now

Excargodog
04-08-2018, 05:11 PM
My point is merging a company with a significant senior pilot group and one where almost all the pilots are hired in the last 5 years will not turn out well for 9E, just look at how the 9E/XJ/9L SLI went last time.

It would likely go to arbitration and cause unwanted division to the pilot group

We could staff the compass flying without a merger just like we are doing the ASA flying now

No, it WOULD NOT GO TO ARBITRATION. It would go to ALPA under McCaskill-Bond, and management's hands would be totally clean. So you would be arguing with ALPA to not follow the precedent ALPA has always followed in the past, and to not follow what is written in the ALPA contract.

And if you think anybody would just turn out in the street hundreds of 121 pilots already trained in the aircraft in today's recruiting and training environment, you are simply crazy.

Personally, I doubt it's gonna happen, but if that's what Delta decides to do, nobody is going to be telling both DELTA AND ALPA that they can't do it the way they both have agreed to do it, nor is 9E simply going to eat $5-7 million in training expenses to avoid merging seniority lists. That's my opinion anyway.

rickair7777
04-08-2018, 05:21 PM
No, it WOULD NOT GO TO ARBITRATION. It would go to ALPA under McCaskill-Bond, and management's hands would be totally clean. So you would be arguing with ALPA to not follow the precedent ALPA has always followed in the past, and to not follow what is written in the ALPA contract.

And if you think anybody would just turn out in the street hundreds of 121 pilots already trained in the aircraft in today's recruiting and training environment, you are simply crazy.

Personally, I doubt it's gonna happen, but if that's what Delta decides to do, nobody is going to be telling both DELTA AND ALPA that they can't do it the way they both have agreed to do it, nor is 9E simply going to eat $5-7 million in training expenses to avoid merging seniority lists. That's my opinion anyway.

Actually it could and probably would go to arbitration. ALPA is not the final say, and neither MEC would gain much by yielding enough to avoid arbitration... you almost have to hold your ground and force arbitration or your own members will think you gave away the store. You can watch this play out live right now with AS and VX

The arbitrator would most likely (almost certainly) follow the ALPA rules and precedent pretty closely but ultimately would not be bound by that. If he goes too far off the reservation that would open the door to appeals, but most arbitrators know how to avoid that.

Excargodog
04-08-2018, 05:27 PM
Actually it could and probably would go to arbitration. ALPA is not the final say, and neither MEC would gain much by yielding enough to avoid arbitration... you almost have to hold your ground and force arbitration or your own members will think you gave away the store. You can watch this play out live right now with AS and VX

The arbitrator would most likely (almost certainly) follow the ALPA rules and precedent pretty closely but ultimately would not be bound by that. If he goes too far off the reservation that would open the door to appeals, but most arbitrators know how to avoid that.


Yeah, but it's arbitration with arbitrators appointed through the ALPA process. Note page 11. It isn't arbitration with the company management.

http://www3.alpa.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=wl%2BWC5rKS5g%3D&tabid=3345

The option to compell either Delta, 9E, or ALPA to not do a seniority integration process at all simply isn't there.

Excargodog
04-08-2018, 05:33 PM
?..you almost have to hold your ground and force arbitration or your own members will think you gave away the store. You can watch this play out live right now with AS and VX

The arbitrator would most likely (almost certainly) follow the ALPA rules and precedent pretty closely but ultimately would not be bound by that. If he goes too far off the reservation that would open the door to appeals, but most arbitrators know how to avoid that.

I admit that a certain amount of Kabuki theater within ALPA is possible, but it's unlikely to affect the outcome in even a cosmetic way.

rickair7777
04-08-2018, 06:04 PM
I admit that a certain amount of Kabuki theater within ALPA is possible, but it's unlikely to affect the outcome in even a cosmetic way.

I agree it's going to (almost certainly) align closely with ALPA policy. But if push comes to shove there is an arbitrator involved.

amcnd
04-08-2018, 06:32 PM
Ya. VX vs AS... VX senior pilots are 2006. AS 1980’s!! See how this goes..

gojo
04-08-2018, 06:42 PM
No, it WOULD NOT GO TO ARBITRATION. It would go to ALPA under McCaskill-Bond, and management's hands would be totally clean. So you would be arguing with ALPA to not follow the precedent ALPA has always followed in the past, and to not follow what is written in the ALPA contract.

And if you think anybody would just turn out in the street hundreds of 121 pilots already trained in the aircraft in today's recruiting and training environment, you are simply crazy.

Personally, I doubt it's gonna happen, but if that's what Delta decides to do, nobody is going to be telling both DELTA AND ALPA that they can't do it the way they both have agreed to do it, nor is 9E simply going to eat $5-7 million in training expenses to avoid merging seniority lists. That's my opinion anyway.

The last merger, all ALPA carriers did go to arbitration. Both companies would have to agree on a fair and equitable integration. If that doesn’t happen. It then goes to arbitration.

rickair7777
04-09-2018, 06:11 AM
Ya. VX vs AS... VX senior pilots are 2006. AS 1980’s!! See how this goes..


It's going to go by career expectations on equivalent equipment (narrow-bodies), with maybe some short-term fences. DOH will have little to do with it.

Slowhawk
04-11-2018, 08:01 AM
It's actually closer to 3 years right now.

So word302 you pester us every time there’s the slightest whisper of the word Skywest in our forums. Trying to correct every thing we say and defend your company like you own it.

.... then you go into other forums and spread misinformation about compass upgrade time :rolleyes: you really have too much time on our hands.

If I had to guess, I’d say that years ago you made a decision between CPZ and OO, and you chose OO. Ever since, seems like you’re trying to justify your choice to yourself by blasting/pestering us on APC 24/7.

- - - - - -
Compass is high risk high reward. If our want job security at a solid and powerful regional then try SkyWest. It’s a truly fantastic company. If you’re young, and you want the regional chapter of your life to be 3 years max, then compass is a good choice as well, especially if you want to live and upgrade on the west coast.

That said in 2020, compass could implode so I’d take that into account. I came in 2017 with the get in/upgrade/get out immediately mentality that 100% of our pilots have, knowing compass probably won’t exist in 5 years.

I’m not here trying to pull a word302 and insinuate that I’m at the best regional, either. Choose the company that suits your needs and will help you meet your goals.

No matter which regional you go to, it sucks, anyway

word302
04-11-2018, 01:39 PM
So word302 you pester us every time there’s the slightest whisper of the word Skywest in our forums. Trying to correct every thing we say and defend your company like you own it.

.... then you go into other forums and spread misinformation about compass upgrade time :rolleyes: you really have too much time on our hands.

If I had to guess, I’d say that years ago you made a decision between CPZ and OO, and you chose OO. Ever since, seems like you’re trying to justify your choice to yourself by blasting/pestering us on APC 24/7.

- - - - - -
Compass is high risk high reward. If our want job security at a solid and powerful regional then try SkyWest. It’s a truly fantastic company. If you’re young, and you want the regional chapter of your life to be 3 years max, then compass is a good choice as well, especially if you want to live and upgrade on the west coast.

That said in 2020, compass could implode so I’d take that into account. I came in 2017 with the get in/upgrade/get out immediately mentality that 100% of our pilots have, knowing compass probably won’t exist in 5 years.

I’m not here trying to pull a word302 and insinuate that I’m at the best regional, either. Choose the company that suits your needs and will help you meet your goals.

No matter which regional you go to, it sucks, anyway

Not a company cheerleader at all. That information actually came from the Compass thread. I know you're super butt hurt at me, but where have I given misinformation? You guys need to grow up. It's OK to post in other airline's threads. Do you notice that nobody here cares that you post? Amazing concept.

Slowhawk
04-11-2018, 03:24 PM
Whatever keeps you busy buddy :rolleyes: you’re pretty infamous on APC anyway, I don’t need to point it out. You’re clearly interested, we’re accepting apps you know.

If anyone’s curious CPZ most junior CA is Feb 2016 hire, so roughly 2 years 2 months. Just about the longest cpz upgrade time has been in several years. That’s including a 6 month upgrade freeze ;) oh I feel dirty I just did what 302 does in all the other regional threads.

Anyway to the OP. Wouldn’t recommend compass but if you go to OO you might get stuck on a 4 day with 302 so I guess both picks have their risks

word302
04-11-2018, 03:54 PM
Whatever keeps you busy buddy :rolleyes: you’re pretty infamous on APC anyway, I don’t need to point it out. You’re clearly interested, we’re accepting apps you know.

If anyone’s curious CPZ most junior CA is Feb 2016 hire, so roughly 2 years 2 months. Just about the longest cpz upgrade time has been in several years. That’s including a 6 month upgrade freeze ;) oh I feel dirty I just did what 302 does in all the other regional threads.

Anyway to the OP. Wouldn’t recommend compass but if you go to OO you might get stuck on a 4 day with 302 so I guess both picks have their risks
Lol. I'm only famous to a few compass guys who need to grow up. I rode in one of your jumps the other day and had pleasant conversation about the suck that is everywhere right now. I know it makes you feel better to try and insult me. No sweat off my back.

redbone
04-11-2018, 04:56 PM
New hire voting restriction is now completion of IOE apparently. I’m pretty sure the pitchforks are coming out on that one😂. Atleast they didn’t accept the company’s proposal which was a good sign.

Petethedog
04-17-2018, 11:06 AM
Example: A pilot commutes to MSP from DEN for reserve that is a reserve availability period from 9a to 9p. Before, the soonest the company could call was 9a for the soonest show time of 11a, 2 hour show time. Which is something easy to do on your first day of reserve. Now, scheduling can put on that same person's 9a to 9p reserve schedule a show time of 5a, without notification, and now the person has to commute out the day before and get their own hotel. In addition it is now the person's responsibility to constantly check their schedule to see if something has been assigned, or get in trouble.

There are other terrible elements to this new manure sandwich as well. But make no mistake the company found the loop hole, exploited to it's brink, have realized it may be illegal, but are not backing down even though they know how upset the employees are. Profit first!

This little gem is on top of what is easily the worst reserve rules in the industry.

The above is an exerpt from the SKyWest 2.0 thread. Man, if this true, that is some real garbage.... total deal breaker... I have read CPZ has FO shortages, anyone there see this as a possibility or are you protected from this abuse? After all, part of 121 allure is the ability to turn your phone off and forget about work until you are back on duty.

Fr8Thrust
04-17-2018, 10:35 PM
I have read CPZ has FO shortages, anyone there see this as a possibility or are you protected from this abuse? After all, part of 121 allure is the ability to turn your phone off and forget about work until you are back on duty.

At CPZ if they modify you, they have to notify you while you’re on duty, and if you’re flying it’s only via ACARS or company rep. We are not required to check our phones/sched once assigned flying. Only on a RAP must you answer the phone, or self notify, within 20 mins. If you’re assigned flying the next day, you’re typically released from the current day, and then are not obligated to answer the phone the next day either. If you’re not notified by the end of assigned duty, you’re released.

There are allowances for them to return you to reserve if you have 6 hours remaining in your RAP or keep you on reserve before tomorrow’s flying, but I have never seen or heard of this being exercised. Mesa is the king of that game.

If you’ve ever travelled through SLC, they’re always paging OO reserve crews (maybe someone can clarify your obligations there, if any).

At CPZ you can be extended, but only after junior manning efforts, and excess reserves have been exhausted. A protection C5 wishes they had.

Petethedog
04-18-2018, 09:05 AM
[QUOTE=Fr8Thrust;2574709]At CPZ if they modify you, they have to notify you while you’re on duty, and if you’re flying it’s only via ACARS or company rep. We are not required to check our phones/sched once assigned flying. Only on a RAP must you answer the phone, or self notify, within 20 mins. If you’re assigned flying the next day, you’re typically released from the current day, and then are not obligated to answer the phone the next day either. If you’re not notified by the end of assigned duty, you’re released.

There are allowances for them to return you to reserve if you have 6 hours remaining in your RAP or keep you on reserve before tomorrow’s flying, but I have never seen or heard of this being exercised. Mesa is the king of that game.

Sounds pretty reasonable... Thanks for the info!



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