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Omnivorous
03-21-2018, 06:27 PM
How would you describe the organizational culture at American? Not a facetious question, Iím looking for honest opinions. Not trying to stir up any union/mgmt stew, either. Simply looking for pilotsí takes on the company culture and how it works (or doesnít).

Thanks.


full of luv
03-21-2018, 06:30 PM
How would describe the organizational culture at American? Not a facetious question, Iím looking for honest opinions. Not trying to stir up any union/mgmt stew, either. Simply looking for pilotsí takes on the company culture and how it works (or doesnít).

Thanks.

Hey as an outsider, if you would have told me that APA was going to get profit sharing, contract improvements and raises outside a prolonged negotiation/ threat of strike back in the 90's, I'd said you were out of your mind.

So as far as APA/mgmt relations, from the outside they seem to be at an all-time-high.

MarineGrunt
03-21-2018, 06:44 PM
Hey as an outsider, if you would have told me that APA was going to get profit sharing, contract improvements and raises outside a prolonged negotiation/ threat of strike back in the 90's, I'd said you were out of your mind.

So as far as APA/mgmt relations, from the outside they seem to be at an all-time-high.

Aside from so called ďcontract improvementsĒ that are yet to be seen, APA had nothing to do with profit sharing or the pay raise last year.


Floobs
03-21-2018, 07:16 PM
How would you describe the organizational culture at American? Not a facetious question, I’m looking for honest opinions. Not trying to stir up any union/mgmt stew, either. Simply looking for pilots’ takes on the company culture and how it works (or doesn’t).

Thanks.

It's "ok". I think the company is doing things to satisfy us but just enough to get 50%+1 to support them.

It's not bad, it's not great, Its "ok" and that's just fine.
It's just a job nothing more nothing less. If you're looking for a "google" style culture then you're in the wrong industry. Even the wunderkind southwest isn't like that anymore.

cactusmike
03-21-2018, 07:23 PM
I will take a stab at this. I come from the west side of the merger with 18 years dealing with Parker and the former AWA management style.


Management does what it needs to do to keep the wheels turning. Having said that, they will do the absolute minimum to keep the wheels turning. Pay raise, profit sharing both outside section six. Impressive on the surface but looking closer you see that the actual numbers are still behind and far behind our peers. Look for this in section six. We should have a long and detailed laundry list of contract improvements. Management will devalue these and cost them at an astronomical sum to show that they ďcanít afford thatĒ. There is no effort to improve things, only to bandage what they have and move the ball another two yards down the field. No long balls here.

Look at customer service. If you or a customer have a problem at the gate who has the authority to fix the issue? Is it the front line employee? Or is it a clipboard carrying supervisor who only wants the door to close and push early? If you have an issue will the chief pilot back you up over a gate supervisor? I think weíve all seen the results of that survey. Nothing that interferes with a rigid door close policy is allowed. No room for common sense, no allowance for many years of flight experience that tells you when the operation is about to go tango uniform if things are not changed.

AA still has a cumbersome middle management layer. Not many departments communicate with each other effectively. I will give them credit for trying to keep us informed, Jetnet and company emails do give us lots of information. Yet simple things like fleet planning and aircraft allocations are changed constantly, sometimes within weeks of announcements.

This is still an airline firmly planted in the past. I do believe it will change but sheer inertia will prevent anything more than incremental improvements.

Omnivorous
03-21-2018, 07:34 PM
I will take a stab at this. I come from the west side of the merger with 18 years dealing with Parker and the former AWA management style.


Management does what it needs to do to keep the wheels turning. Having said that, they will do the absolute minimum to keep the wheels turning. Pay raise, profit sharing both outside section six. Impressive on the surface but looking closer you see that the actual numbers are still behind and far behind our peers. Look for this in section six. We should have a long and detailed laundry list of contract improvements. Management will devalue these and cost them at an astronomical sum to show that they ďcanít afford thatĒ. There is no effort to improve things, only to bandage what they have and move the ball another two yards down the field. No long balls here.

Look at customer service. If you or a customer have a problem at the gate who has the authority to fix the issue? Is it the front line employee? Or is it a clipboard carrying supervisor who only wants the door to close and push early? If you have an issue will the chief pilot back you up over a gate supervisor? I think weíve all seen the results of that survey. Nothing that interferes with a rigid door close policy is allowed. No room for common sense, no allowance for many years of flight experience that tells you when the operation is about to go tango uniform if things are not changed.

AA still has a cumbersome middle management layer. Not many departments communicate with each other effectively. I will give them credit for trying to keep us informed, Jetnet and company emails do give us lots of information. Yet simple things like fleet planning and aircraft allocations are changed constantly, sometimes within weeks of announcements.

This is still an airline firmly planted in the past. I do believe it will change but sheer inertia will prevent anything more than incremental improvements.

Great comments. I appreciate your thoughts and time.

Frip
03-22-2018, 05:04 AM
"If you want a friend, buy a dog" still very appropriate.

Come to work, do job - well, don't stir up any trouble, go home and you'll never hear anything from anyone. If you screw up, fix it, fess up and someone will say don't do that anymore - unless you get crosswise with HR for harassment or prejudice type issues - then you're in deep kimchii.

It's a great job. The company is data and especially bonus driven. You are a cog, and thst is what is expected of you. You are not going to make a difference, globally speaking.

Take care of your flight, your passengers, your crew and yourself.

meyers9163
03-22-2018, 05:41 AM
"If you want a friend, buy a dog" still very appropriate.

Come to work, do job - well, don't stir up any trouble, go home and you'll never hear anything from anyone. If you screw up, fix it, fess up and someone will say don't do that anymore - unless you get crosswise with HR for harassment or prejudice type issues - then you're in deep kimchii.

It's a great job. The company is data and especially bonus driven. You are a cog, and thst is what is expected of you. You are not going to make a difference, globally speaking.

Take care of your flight, your passengers, your crew and yourself.

Letís rearrange that. Take care of yourself, your crew, your flight and passengers next. This company doesnít want to put you first or your crew so you have to do that.

FlyPurdue
03-22-2018, 06:00 AM
I spent 5 years at HDQ1, in roles across the commercial organization, and am now flying for one of AA's WOs.

If you read the 10K's for DL and AA, you can see that while we have near parity on our absolute CASM, it's our TRASM that lags behind DL. DL has built an extremely reliable operation, and consistent passenger experience, and has done a phenomenal job in marketing their brand as a premium brand...and if you review DL's financial statements, you will see they take a yield (average fare) premium to the industry...that is unheard of in the airline world, as we (as an industry) have unfortunately taught passengers that a seat is a seat is a seat...but not Delta.

AA leadership (and Wall Street) are absolutely aware of this gap, and are working with all employee groups to address; but because these gaps between AA and DL can fundamental in nature, the corrections take a long time to decode and implement, and may even feel backwards at times.

This 'gap' to DL, does effect overall morale (at least what I witnessed firsthand at HDQ1) and I believe is the cornerstone of our mediocre corporate culture. But as this industry is cyclical, I am optimistic that it wont be long until the industry has a gap to AAG, and every pilot (and employee) feels empowered to make global changes and improvements.

I am hopeful that I will one day be an APA pilot, and hope to use my experience at HDQ1 to better the career for all pilots.

chignutsak
03-22-2018, 06:18 AM
I am hopeful that I will one day be an APA pilot, and hope to use my experience at HDQ1 to better the career for all pilots.

Sigghhhhhh. Googoo eyes. Bats eyelashes.

Frip
03-22-2018, 06:50 AM
Let’s rearrange that. Take care of yourself, your crew, your flight and passengers next.

It's not a hierarchy...

That's the job, as I see it.

Least worried about myself.

YMMV

aa73
03-22-2018, 07:03 AM
What Cactusmike and Frip said...pure gold and spot on.

They will only do the bare minimum to keep the operation profitable and the share price up.

Unlike Delta, which seems to be run by AIRLINE people with a vision to make the airline as good as it can be. And even with that, they still remain more profitable than us.

R57 relay
03-22-2018, 06:06 PM
What Cactusmike and Frip said...pure gold and spot on.

They will only do the bare minimum to keep the operation profitable and the share price up.

Unlike Delta, which seems to be run by AIRLINE people with a vision to make the airline as good as it can be. And even with that, they still remain more profitable than us.



Maybe some Delta folks can chime in, but isnít it largely run by former NW management that were anything but labor friendly? Remember ďCobra Airlines ď? Did they change?

cactusmike
03-22-2018, 07:04 PM
Maybe some Delta folks can chime in, but isnít it largely run by former NW management that were anything but labor friendly? Remember ďCobra Airlines ď? Did they change?

I would be interested to see if that was true. If so, it provides even more of a contrast with American. I think it goes back to the impression that Delta was always the family, they took care of the employees and the people were, for the most part, happy. If NWA management came in they are pushing against that culture. Opposite of this one.

Remember the ĎKeep Delta my Deltaí motto that they rallied around to keep Parker out back in 2010. (Ish)? Didnít happen at American. AA employees couldnít wait to dump Horton (with good reason) and take a chance with Parker and company.

Company culture is a real concept. Itís been interesting for me to see the changes over the last 13 years. I have not been happy with some of what I have seen but in reality it doesnít matter what I want or think, this is the company I work for and it is up to me to find my happy place within this organization and make it work for me. I think I have done so, and I still enjoy going to work and I definitely have enjoyed the new people I fly with and the places I go.

SFly
03-22-2018, 09:10 PM
Iíve been at AA a little over a year now. Some good, some bad. I have a military background, and I can say a lot of my complaints about the airline gig are similar to the military. Why does maintenance take so long? Doesnít someone in management know this situation is screwed up and why donít they fix it? Canít I get better food?

I must say that I have had positive interactions with the admin flight department. Between deaths I the family, military leave, and medical issues, in all the CP office has done a fair job to help me make it to work and get compensated properly. At the end of the day, what I ask for is that if I do my job well, then leadership should do their job well.

The union stuff, still new to me, could improve. I donít think that labor and mangement approach negotiations with a synergistic mindset. More adversarial. That could be the result of decades of mistrust. Maybe going forward, as profits continue, it will improve.

LumberJack
03-22-2018, 09:21 PM
I've been at Delta for a couple years and absolutely love it here. Management is a mix of both companies. Ed actually left at one point because he didn't like the new direction the company was going. He was convinced to come back and is now running the show. My impression of him is he genuinely cares about the employees first. Some of his decisions are questionable, and he absolutely answers to Wall Street, but he has the long term viability and success of Delta at heart. And to do that he knows the employees need to be taken care of.

Sliceback
03-23-2018, 05:01 AM
DL taking care of their people - having ridiculously high rate rates return in the defined benefit funds which meant that in reality their was less money in the funds when they went BK.

Our pension people used to shake their head about DLís pension funding. And the worst part was 100% of their pension was in their A fund.

Be careful of people that smile at you.

Sonny Crockett
03-23-2018, 05:19 AM
You guys want Kirby back? Come and take him!!!!

Sliceback
03-23-2018, 07:36 AM
DL taking care of their people - having ridiculously high rates of return in the defined benefit funds which meant that in reality there was less money in the funds when they went BK.

Our pension people used to shake their head about DLís pension funding. And the worst part was 100% of their pension was in their A fund.

Be careful of people that smile at you.

Typos fixed.

jcountry
03-23-2018, 09:58 AM
You guys want Kirby back? Come and take him!!!!

Negative Ghostrider.

You can keep that turd, and all his peanuts 💩 💩 🤮

Al Czervik
03-23-2018, 10:12 AM
It’s a great culture when your own Union is donating thousands of dollars to BOD favorite HS football programs.

Floobs
03-23-2018, 10:18 AM
Itís a great culture when your own Union is donating thousands of dollars to BOD favorite HS football programs.

Oh really? Who did it and whats this all about?

Al Czervik
03-23-2018, 10:23 AM
Oh really? Who did it and whats this all about?

Itís on APA

Copied:
APA Home page, APA financials (just under the 117 link), Monthly summary, pick a year (2017 in this case), click on a monthly pdf link AFTER the expenditure, slide to the bottom of the pdf for the AFE reports.

jcountry
03-23-2018, 10:58 AM
I love my job! I work with wonderful people!

The company treats us pretty well.

The union is run by the most unethical, corrupt bastards I have ever seen. They make DC look like Candyland. Thatís our problem.

If we can flush all the bad ones, most of our QOL complaints and contractual issues would disappear completely.

EMBFlyer
03-23-2018, 05:50 PM
Itís a great culture when your own Union is donating thousands of dollars to BOD favorite HS football programs.

You misspelled President.

Al Czervik
03-23-2018, 06:00 PM
You misspelled President.

Lol.... I did!

full of luv
03-23-2018, 08:19 PM
DL taking care of their people - having ridiculously high rate rates return in the defined benefit funds which meant that in reality their was less money in the funds when they went BK.

Our pension people used to shake their head about DLís pension funding. And the worst part was 100% of their pension was in their A fund.

Be careful of people that smile at you.

That may be so, and much of it was based on the way that they set up the pensions. I recall AA having a "B" fund and at the time Delta only had an "A" fund but Delta had a great 1/2 lump sum payout at retirement age which further put the pension fund in the hole once the **** started hitting the fan in the early 2000's.

I do rerecall one point in like 2000 (too lazy to try and look it up) when Delta mgmt tried to put excess profits into the pension stock funds but the IRS told them that since the returns are high and the plan well funded they were not allowed to put anymore pretax money into the pension fund. It even went to some tax court which eventually ruled against the company, thus further setting the stage for underfunded pension funds once the stuff started hitting the fan.

iHateAMR
03-24-2018, 06:03 AM
How would you describe the organizational culture at American? Not a facetious question, Iím looking for honest opinions. Not trying to stir up any union/mgmt stew, either. Simply looking for pilotsí takes on the company culture and how it works (or doesnít).

Thanks.

For pilots still at AA, itís tough to get a frame of reference. What they see is what they know, how they handle it is based off their individual personalities. A job is what you make of it. Those that have left have a different frame of reference. For me AMR was just a bitter, cheesy company with good dudes forced together to fight off attacks from Management, Gate Agents, Ramp Agents, Training Departments, APA, Flight Attendants and everybody else and their two best friends.

The products that AA put out were frankly embarrassing and difficult to defend, once I remember getting a bowl of rice crispies and two strawberries in first class for a meal! The cheese trays with Beechers Cheese from Alaska Airlines is a hit, leave it to AA to come up with something similar but with ďcheese like product.Ē Nearly a decade and a half ago, AMR (thru Eagle) wanted to charge for drinks, luckily the pre-twitter court of opinion put the kybash down on that one within a month of starting the trial.

The seniority integration pre USAirways left a lot of bitter folks in the wake. Both sides were adamant that they got screwed big time, fist fights, back stabbing, throwing people under the bus. Blaming each other for the furloughs, bankruptcy, etc. Add in another unintegrated group, and now you have 4 groups who havenít gotten over their last screwing. What a mess.

I did not like my time there, I found myself constantly bitter and looking over my shoulder. I havenít felt that way since I left and found I actually love coming to work now. AMR has a way of taking the fun out of everything, and for an optimist like myself, it was pure poison. For those still there, I hope itís gotten better with Parker and company, but I find it difficult to see how that toxic culture could ever be removed.

Al Czervik
03-24-2018, 06:46 AM
For pilots still at AA, itís tough to get a frame of reference. What they see is what they know, how they handle it is based off their individual personalities. A job is what you make of it. Those that have left have a different frame of reference. For me AMR was just a bitter, cheesy company with good dudes forced together to fight off attacks from Management, Gate Agents, Ramp Agents, Training Departments, APA, Flight Attendants and everybody else and their two best friends.

The products that AA put out were frankly embarrassing and difficult to defend, once I remember getting a bowl of rice crispies and two strawberries in first class for a meal! The cheese trays with Beechers Cheese from Alaska Airlines is a hit, leave it to AA to come up with something similar but with ďcheese like product.Ē Nearly a decade and a half ago, AMR (thru Eagle) wanted to charge for drinks, luckily the pre-twitter court of opinion put the kybash down on that one within a month of starting the trial.

The seniority integration pre USAirways left a lot of bitter folks in the wake. Both sides were adamant that they got screwed big time, fist fights, back stabbing, throwing people under the bus. Blaming each other for the furloughs, bankruptcy, etc. Add in another unintegrated group, and now you have 4 groups who havenít gotten over their last screwing. What a mess.

I did not like my time there, I found myself constantly bitter and looking over my shoulder. I havenít felt that way since I left and found I actually love coming to work now. AMR has a way of taking the fun out of everything, and for an optimist like myself, it was pure poison. For those still there, I hope itís gotten better with Parker and company, but I find it difficult to see how that toxic culture could ever be removed.

Only time will fix the culture. There are some great younger people both flying the line and in management. LAA is full of ďinterestingĒ things.

aa73
03-24-2018, 10:41 AM
It can definitely be a toxic culture but only if you let it. Your choice. My glass is always half full.

I still have a blast on my trips , and ever since upgrading to CA I get a chance to try and fix everything wrong with this company one flight at a time... and I have a blast doing it.

After each trip, I always ask myself.. Did I do the best I could to make this trip as fun as I could, and are my fellow employees/pax happier because of it? I try for a Yes every trip.

In the end I suspect itís like this at all other airlines too.

Al Czervik
03-24-2018, 12:35 PM
It can definitely be a toxic culture but only if you let it. Your choice. My glass is always half full.

I still have a blast on my trips , and ever since upgrading to CA I get a chance to try and fix everything wrong with this company one flight at a time... and I have a blast doing it.

After each trip, I always ask myself.. Did I do the best I could to make this trip as fun as I could, and are my fellow employees/pax happier because of it? I try for a Yes every trip.

In the end I suspect itís like this at all other airlines too.

Hopefully weíll fly together. Iím getting burned out with the over the top CAís. I have to fly with that dude that stands on his head all the time too. Gotta find out what thatís all about.

jcountry
03-24-2018, 12:54 PM
Hopefully weíll fly together. Iím getting burned out with the over the top CAís. I have to fly with that dude that stands on his head all the time too. Gotta find out what thatís all about.

Stands on his head?

In the cockpit?

Sounds like the perfect opportunity for a hammer blow-to his sack.

aa73
03-24-2018, 01:30 PM
Hopefully weíll fly together. Iím getting burned out with the over the top CAís. I have to fly with that dude that stands on his head all the time too. Gotta find out what thatís all about.

That would be groovy, but.... Youíre gonna have to bite the bullet and bid the Boeing Torture Device in DCA :D

A dude that stands on his head.... now Iíve heard it all.

Frip
03-24-2018, 01:59 PM
"dude that stands on his head.... now Iíve heard it all."

Not yet you haven't 😏

Al Czervik
03-24-2018, 02:01 PM
That would be groovy, but.... Youíre gonna have to bite the bullet and bid the Boeing Torture Device in DCA :D

A dude that stands on his head.... now Iíve heard it all.

Heís on the AArena. All his pics... heís doing a headstand.

jcountry
03-24-2018, 03:14 PM
Heís on the AArena. All his pics... heís doing a headstand.

Why do some folks just refuse to be normal?

Does he do magic tricks too?

Show up to work in a windowless van?

Does he spend vacation in clown college?

mainlineAF
03-24-2018, 03:40 PM
For pilots still at AA, itís tough to get a frame of reference. What they see is what they know, how they handle it is based off their individual personalities. A job is what you make of it. Those that have left have a different frame of reference. For me AMR was just a bitter, cheesy company with good dudes forced together to fight off attacks from Management, Gate Agents, Ramp Agents, Training Departments, APA, Flight Attendants and everybody else and their two best friends.



The products that AA put out were frankly embarrassing and difficult to defend, once I remember getting a bowl of rice crispies and two strawberries in first class for a meal! The cheese trays with Beechers Cheese from Alaska Airlines is a hit, leave it to AA to come up with something similar but with ďcheese like product.Ē Nearly a decade and a half ago, AMR (thru Eagle) wanted to charge for drinks, luckily the pre-twitter court of opinion put the kybash down on that one within a month of starting the trial.



The seniority integration pre USAirways left a lot of bitter folks in the wake. Both sides were adamant that they got screwed big time, fist fights, back stabbing, throwing people under the bus. Blaming each other for the furloughs, bankruptcy, etc. Add in another unintegrated group, and now you have 4 groups who havenít gotten over their last screwing. What a mess.



I did not like my time there, I found myself constantly bitter and looking over my shoulder. I havenít felt that way since I left and found I actually love coming to work now. AMR has a way of taking the fun out of everything, and for an optimist like myself, it was pure poison. For those still there, I hope itís gotten better with Parker and company, but I find it difficult to see how that toxic culture could ever be removed.



Where are you now? Sounds like youíre pretty bitter so Iím guessing your attitude had a lot to do with how you perceived the ďcultureĒ.

Itís not AMR anymore. Itís basically a new company. I made over 5 times the national household income last year and didnít have to deal with any ďtoxic cultureĒ.

Wtf is ďcultureĒ anyway? Show up to work on time, donít do dumb stuff and you wonít ever hear anything from management. They follow the contract so there is nothing really to ask for.

Name User
03-24-2018, 06:47 PM
Anyone see the iPad efb guy that licks the windows? I think he's on the 737. He's got YouTube videos.

Name User
03-24-2018, 06:50 PM
Where are you now? Sounds like youíre pretty bitter so Iím guessing your attitude had a lot to do with how you perceived the ďcultureĒ.

Itís not AMR anymore. Itís basically a new company. I made over 5 times the national household income last year and didnít have to deal with any ďtoxic cultureĒ.

Wtf is ďcultureĒ anyway? Show up to work on time, donít do dumb stuff and you wonít ever hear anything from management. They follow the contract so there is nothing really to ask for.

You're making over $300k on the E190? Our contract is OK but I don't see how you're crediting 150+ hrs a month every month with our contract.

Carlsbad
03-24-2018, 09:48 PM
Where are you now? Sounds like youíre pretty bitter so Iím guessing your attitude had a lot to do with how you perceived the ďcultureĒ.

Itís not AMR anymore. Itís basically a new company. I made over 5 times the national household income last year and didnít have to deal with any ďtoxic cultureĒ.

Wtf is ďcultureĒ anyway? Show up to work on time, donít do dumb stuff and you wonít ever hear anything from management. They follow the contract so there is nothing really to ask for.

I think he's FedEx. Let's be honest, unless you're at least 1/3 the way up the list leaving for Delta or FedEx is a good move. Things seem to be improving, but we're so far behind our peers it's sad.

Surprise
03-24-2018, 10:13 PM
Let's be honest, unless you're at least 1/3 the way up the list leaving for Delta or FedEx is a good move.

Believe me, Iíve considered leaving. ďUnfortunatelyĒ I was hired at a good time and a good age and Iíll be really senior really fast. Itís a lot to walk away from, even if weíre currently trailing. Golden handcuffs, if you will.

NYC Pilot
03-24-2018, 10:22 PM
I think he's FedEx. Let's be honest, unless you're at least 1/3 the way up the list leaving for Delta or FedEx is a good move. Things seem to be improving, but we're so far behind our peers it's sad.

Leave American when you are 1/3 the way up the seniority list? For what? Delta or Fedex ? What's so great about them that you would potentially leave the right seat of a 777 to start all over ? I'm sorry but that makes zero sense. I have worked for AMR in the past and it's a fine company overall. There is no such thing as a perfect company. Every place has its downsides. American Airlines has some very fine people.

Carlsbad
03-25-2018, 01:12 AM
Leave American when you are 1/3 the way up the seniority list? For what? Delta or Fedex ? What's so great about them that you would potentially leave the right seat of a 777 to start all over ? I'm sorry but that makes zero sense. I have worked for AMR in the past and it's a fine company overall. There is no such thing as a perfect company. Every place has its downsides. American Airlines has some very fine people.

Yes, American has some very fine people, quite a few in fact, but..... You obviously have no idea of the work conditions/contract at American vs Delta or FedEx. Currently American is closer to a commuter airline than it is to Delta or FedEx........ and 1/3 of the way up the American list won't get you a 777 FO spot, it'll get you senior narrow body FO at a junior base.

mainlineAF
03-25-2018, 04:39 AM
Anyone see the iPad efb guy that licks the windows? I think he's on the 737. He's got YouTube videos.



Theyíre so over the top that Iím pretty sure heís just trying to be funny.

If heís dead serious, then i literally canít even, like literally.

mainlineAF
03-25-2018, 04:51 AM
I think he's FedEx. Let's be honest, unless you're at least 1/3 the way up the list leaving for Delta or FedEx is a good move. Things seem to be improving, but we're so far behind our peers it's sad.



Thatís crazy talk. You would be crazy to leave AA as a junior narrowbody captain (junior captain is around 27-28% off the bottom) for delta or fdx.

How is AA ďso far behind our peersĒ? For the same equipment AA has higher hourly rates than fdx and the same as delta.

Ya dl has better profit sharing and fdx has a pension. But those arenít worth giving up tons of seniority for as the comparison could change with each contract/ economic cycle.

With ACD our work rules pretty much match all the other majors. Yea you can cherry pick the good stuff out of other contracts to make AA look bad but reality in we are basically on par. We have work to do in the next contract but weíre not way out in left field.

The guys who have great careers were hired young at the beginning of a hiring wave. If you fit that demographic and leave for the flavor of the week i think thatís a bad choice.

mainlineAF
03-25-2018, 04:59 AM
Yes, American has some very fine people, quite a few in fact, but..... You obviously have no idea of the work conditions/contract at American vs Delta or FedEx. Currently American is closer to a commuter airline than it is to Delta or FedEx........ and 1/3 of the way up the American list won't get you a 777 FO spot, it'll get you senior narrow body FO at a junior base.



Thatís just flat out wrong.

1/3 of the way up the list is 66.6%. Junior group 4 FO is PHL 330 at 81%. Junior group 2 captain is LGA 737 and itís 75%.

Maybe you should pay attention. The movement has started. It hasnít been rapid but itís been constant and steady. If you havenít looked around 3xp in a while I suggest you do so. Youíll be surprised where you sit around the system.

jcountry
03-25-2018, 05:37 AM
Leave American when you are 1/3 the way up the seniority list? For what? Delta or Fedex ? What's so great about them that you would potentially leave the right seat of a 777 to start all over ? I'm sorry but that makes zero sense. I have worked for AMR in the past and it's a fine company overall. There is no such thing as a perfect company. Every place has its downsides. American Airlines has some very fine people.



Very well put.

I think things will improve vastly in a few years. The ingredients of a wonderful career are all here.

Laker24
03-25-2018, 07:59 AM
Yes, American has some very fine people, quite a few in fact, but..... You obviously have no idea of the work conditions/contract at American vs Delta or FedEx. Currently American is closer to a commuter airline than it is to Delta or FedEx........ and 1/3 of the way up the American list won't get you a 777 FO spot, it'll get you senior narrow body FO at a junior base.

What specifically bothers you? Iím a senior narrowbody FO and the only thing that has negatively impacted me so far is the weak profit sharing. Iíve had Recovery Obligation once in the past 2 years. Not the end of the world. I wish we had better LTD.

A seniority number around 10,000 will make you a senior narrowbody FO at any base. It will get you junior narrowbody CA at some bases. Or 787/777/330 fo in MIA,LAX, PHL, JFK. As a junior group 2 CA you wouls make roughly $280k on reserve including the 401k contribution.

You want to give that up to start over? If thatís how you feel then go for it. Iím sure somebody junior to you will be happy to move up a spot.

mainlineAF
03-25-2018, 08:20 AM
Well Iím glad we took care of that nonsense. Some people need to get out of their little bubble.

Pilot X
03-25-2018, 09:18 AM
Yes, American has some very fine people, quite a few in fact, but..... You obviously have no idea of the work conditions/contract at American vs Delta or FedEx. Currently American is closer to a commuter airline than it is to Delta or FedEx........ and 1/3 of the way up the American list won't get you a 777 FO spot, it'll get you senior narrow body FO at a junior base.

1/3 of the way up the list will get you a group 4 FO slot or a group 2 capt slot.

As of 6/2 there are 14,931 on the list so halfway up is 9,954 so not only would you be able to hold a spot you can be a blockholder

Edit....I didn’t see everyone else’s responses before I responded to that misinformation

full of luv
03-25-2018, 09:40 AM
Yes, American has some very fine people, quite a few in fact, but..... You obviously have no idea of the work conditions/contract at American vs Delta or FedEx. Currently American is closer to a commuter airline than it is to Delta or FedEx........ and 1/3 of the way up the American list won't get you a 777 FO spot, it'll get you senior narrow body FO at a junior base.

One could argue that in the last 20 years, there has NEVER been a better time to be an AA pilot, so to leave NOW would seem pretty incredible.

Culture wise, movement wise etc, heck even Mgmt/APA relations seem to be at an all-time-high from a historical vantage point at AA.

Scoop
03-25-2018, 11:09 AM
I think he's FedEx. Let's be honest, unless you're at least 1/3 the way up the list leaving for Delta or FedEx is a good move. Things seem to be improving, but we're so far behind our peers it's sad.


As a DAL guy I don't think it would be wise to leave AMR to come to DAL.
First off DAL is currently doing great and firing on all cylinders, but we have hired over 4000 Pilots in the last 4 years - not a good move to come aboard on the back of such a huge wave. Someone starting the process now might be behind 5000+ pilots hired in 5 years. This might have been a good move 4-5 years ago but not now.

Second we all know this industry is cyclical and DAL or any other airline is just 1 CEO change away from impending disaster or a total renaissance.

In my opinion the culture at DAL is pretty good right now but about 10% of our Pilots portray the place as being pure Hell and being run by heartless pencil pushing bean counters.

Then there is the 10% that act like DAL management came down the mountain next to Moses and our PWA was chiseled on a tablet and it is perfection. These guys are serious kool-aide drinkers and always will be.

That leaves us with about 80% of the guys who realize that all things considered we have it pretty good - not perfect with plenty of room for improvement but near the top of the industry. We have plenty of individual PWA items that lag AMR and UCAL but on the big picture items, for the most part, we are doing good.

Just my 2 cents

Scoop - 18 years at DAL

Cheddar
03-25-2018, 04:10 PM
As a DAL guy I don't think it would be wise to leave AMR to come to DAL.
First off DAL is currently doing great and firing on all cylinders, but we have hired over 4000 Pilots in the last 4 years - not a good move to come aboard on the back of such a huge wave. Someone starting the process now might be behind 5000+ pilots hired in 5 years. This might have been a good move 4-5 years ago but not now.

Second we all know this industry is cyclical and DAL or any other airline is just 1 CEO change away from impending disaster or a total renaissance.

In my opinion the culture at DAL is pretty good right now but about 10% of our Pilots portray the place as being pure Hell and being run by heartless pencil pushing bean counters.

Then there is the 10% that act like DAL management came down the mountain next to Moses and our PWA was chiseled on a tablet and it is perfection. These guys are serious kool-aide drinkers and always will be.

That leaves us with about 80% of the guys who realize that all things considered we have it pretty good - not perfect with plenty of room for improvement but near the top of the industry. We have plenty of individual PWA items that lag AMR and UCAL but on the big picture items, for the most part, we are doing good.

Just my 2 cents

Scoop - 18 years at DAL



So what youíre saying is Delta is amazeballz and everyone SENIOR to 13000 should go there immediately!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

R57 relay
03-25-2018, 06:59 PM
At various times US Air/ USAirways had a better culture than AA. Quite often I will complain about the AA leftovers that drag us down. That said, I’m making close to 3x what I made in 2009 at US and that makes up for a lot of culture. Sort of like we had better hotel contract language at US, but we have better hotels at AA. I don’t spend as much time thinking “what if?” as I used to.

We all see life through our own experience glasses.

I have a slightly different perspective on Parker and our managers. Not that anyone is hanging on my word, but I’ll post it later.

meyers9163
03-26-2018, 02:04 AM
Letís rearrange that. Take care of yourself, your crew, your flight and passengers next.

It's not a hierarchy...

That's the job, as I see it.

Least worried about myself.

YMMV

Another yes man. Probably the same type that saved Christmas. Keep that approach and your family and kids with thank you one day for putting yourself and them behind work and the others. Great thinking there pal. Hopefully others can see how flawed your logic is.

meyers9163
03-26-2018, 02:10 AM
1/3 of the way up the list will get you a group 4 FO slot or a group 2 capt slot.

As of 6/2 there are 14,931 on the list so halfway up is 9,954 so not only would you be able to hold a spot you can be a blockholder

Edit....I didnít see everyone elseís responses before I responded to that misinformation

That number isnít accurate. The near 15k number always fails to take into account those who retired that year and also long term medical etc that wonít be coming back.

mainlineAF
03-26-2018, 02:46 AM
That number isnít accurate. The near 15k number always fails to take into account those who retired that year and also long term medical etc that wonít be coming back.



True but if thereís say 500 guys who arenít coming back they will be sprinkled all over the seniority list. So while it may mean we have 14.5k pilots active the percentage at which you can hold g2 ca or g4 fo will be about the same bc a lot of those guys who wonít come back are senior to those numbers.

mainlineAF
03-26-2018, 03:09 AM
True but if thereís say 500 guys who arenít coming back they will be sprinkled all over the seniority list. So while it may mean we have 14.5k pilots active the percentage at which you can hold g2 ca or g4 fo will be about the same bc a lot of those guys who wonít come back are senior to those numbers.



ďCultureĒ is such a joke at a 100k employee/ 15k pilot company.

Does the company pay you on time? Yes. Do they follow the contract? Yes.

What else do you want? A hug and a high five from a chief after every trip?

If the person youíre flying with is bitter and complains then your trip will suck. If theyíre cool then youíll have fun. Itís all about whoís sitting next to you.

Pilot X
03-26-2018, 04:10 AM
That number isnít accurate. The near 15k number always fails to take into account those who retired that year and also long term medical etc that wonít be coming back.

He said a third of the way up the list.....not a third of the way up the list of active pilots

Not sure how you would calculate up the active pilot list

EMBFlyer
03-26-2018, 05:25 AM
Sort of like we had better hotel contract language at US, but we have better hotels at AA.

We did?

See: Palos Verdes Inn, Palace Station, Days Inn BDL

Frip
03-26-2018, 05:25 AM
Another yes man. Probably the same type that saved Christmas. Keep that approach and your family and kids with thank you one day for putting yourself and them behind work and the others. Great thinking there pal. Hopefully others can see how flawed your logic is.

You have no idea.

Kids are fine, way beyond fine in fact, and I busted ass to be there for them and do what was needed $$ wise. There is no substitute for just plain being there.

As I told a chief one day, in a discussion about a recurring mechanical issue with one of the antiques, "You can not make me do anything, but you cancount on me to do the right thing.

That is not "all about me". Responsibility matters.

What a miserable way to live that would be, always putting your own selfish wants first. No thank you. Your fellow humans matter too.

Sadly, we all know the type.

When I go to work, I do my job.

Then I go home, where I spent every day off I had in December, and early January, with a house stuffed full of kids and grandkids and mom and MIL. Where I spend most of my time period. Haven't taken a PR or OG trip in almost two years, either.

Luckiest man in the world.

Partly by design, largely by good fortune.

R57 relay
03-26-2018, 05:49 AM
We did?

See: Palos Verdes Inn, Palace Station, Days Inn BDL

Like I said, they are better now.

Andrew_VT
03-26-2018, 05:58 AM
Does the company pay you on time? Yes. Do they follow the contract? Yes.


You picked two great examples to make your point.

Payroll is a mess and they violate our contract daily!

Sandhawk
03-26-2018, 06:09 AM
You picked two great examples to make your point.

Payroll is a mess and they violate our contract daily!

Bingo !!! We have a winner !!!

Sandhawk
03-26-2018, 06:13 AM
At various times US Air/ USAirways had a better culture than AA.

When you hit rock bottom, it always seems like a great improvement when the only way you have to go is up!

R57 relay
03-26-2018, 06:52 AM
When you hit rock bottom, it always seems like a great improvement when the only way you have to go is up!

I don't think it was rock bottom, from stories of heard from other guys. Grass is always greener.

My take on Parker- it's just business. If he wants to change the culture, it's a business decision, not because he's our benevolent uncle.

Having worked for him for a while I was amazed that we got back any profit sharing, especially since we sold it. Same for the mid contact raise and LOS. I said on here that people were crazy if they thought Parker would give us anything. But in hindsight, the senior management have been pretty good at adapting and with current US airline environment, things have changed drastically.

We have a lot to change here. I think most of it is in middle management mindset. I didn't think we would have come as far as we have when the merger was announced. A long way to go, but some will NEVER be happy.

Varks
03-26-2018, 08:44 AM
Culture is tough. Some days I think itís getting better some not so much.

I recently worked with someone who got a call for a miss commute. The Chief was not so nice about it. His flight cancelled. First offense and the guy was giving him a hard time. That does not sound like culture change to me.

On the better side I asked for a couple days off to get time with family. No emergency just 2 extra days in D.C. with them. I filled out a request and a couple days later they were off on my schedule. That was in June.

I do like our senior management. Watching Boeing and Airbus fight over our wide body order is nice. We are buying inexpensive used planes. I feel like they are running a better operation than any legacy AA management team did. They are not perfect but they have surprised me a couple times. Middle management is hit or miss. There are still some clueless individuals remaining but many have been weeded out.

Work groups still donít mesh very well. I try to be nice to everyone and buy coffee for anyone that wants it. A small gesture but I am amazed at how much some appreciate it. I am having the most fun I have had here. Most of that has to do with the seat I sit in, the money I make and getting more senior.

Big corporations are hard to turn around. I see continued slow improvements. It will take time. Things change too. Delta is clearly the best today. That will change. Iím hoping our next contract helps the quality of life.

beancounter
03-26-2018, 05:16 PM
Does the company pay you on time? No. Do they follow the contract? No.


There, fixed it for you. You must not work for AA.

mainlineAF
03-26-2018, 05:21 PM
There, fixed it for you. You must not work for AA.



Oh please. Youíve had a late paycheck? Thatís laughable. The one minor mistake on my check was fixed promptly.

Explain to me how the company is violating the contract? Weak contract language which the APA and company disagree on shouldnít count.

Look Iím by no means a company man. But AA is one of the best flying jobs in the world and to say anything else is downright laughable.

Of course we should continue to fight to improve our pay and work rules but these are good times. Iím very thankful to work here.

beancounter
03-26-2018, 05:27 PM
Thatís crazy talk. You would be crazy to leave AA as a junior narrowbody captain (junior captain is around 27-28% off the bottom) for delta or fdx.

How is AA ďso far behind our peersĒ? For the same equipment AA has higher hourly rates than fdx and the same as delta.

Ya dl has better profit sharing and fdx has a pension. But those arenít worth giving up tons of seniority for as the comparison could change with each contract/ economic cycle.

With ACD our work rules pretty much match all the other majors. Yea you can cherry pick the good stuff out of other contracts to make AA look bad but reality in we are basically on par. We have work to do in the next contract but weíre not way out in left field.

The guys who have great careers were hired young at the beginning of a hiring wave. If you fit that demographic and leave for the flavor of the week i think thatís a bad choice.

Dude, pull your head out of the sand, heís right. I havenít considered FedEx, but Iíve given serious thought to Delta, and Iíve got probably 4000 below me at American. Profit sharing 1/10th, Sick time 60 hrs vs 200, LTD a joke, STD nonexistent, Health care getting worse, scheduling rules getting worse, on and on and on. You guys need to sit down and read Deltas, Unitedís and Fedexs contracts. Then probably read ours, because Iím guessing you havenít.

beancounter
03-26-2018, 05:35 PM
Oh please. Youíve had a late paycheck? Thatís laughable. The one minor mistake on my check was fixed promptly.

Explain to me how the company is violating the contract? Weak contract language which the APA and company disagree on shouldnít count.

Look Iím by no means a company man. But AA is one of the best flying jobs in the world and to say anything else is downright laughable.

Of course we should continue to fight to improve our pay and work rules but these are good times. Iím very thankful to work here.

Dude, you need to check your paycheck more carefully. Theyíve probably hosed you out if thousands and you donít even know it. Amazingly the only mistakes they find are the ones that benefit them. Hmmmmm. I always notify whether the mistake benefits me or not, apparently itís only a one way street.

mainlineAF
03-26-2018, 05:39 PM
Dude, pull your head out of the sand, heís right. I havenít considered FedEx, but Iíve given serious thought to Delta, and Iíve got probably 4000 below me at American. Profit sharing 1/10th, Sick time 60 hrs vs 200, LTD a joke, STD nonexistent, Health care getting worse, scheduling rules getting worse, on and on and on. You guys need to sit down and read Deltas, Unitedís and Fedexs contracts. Then probably read ours, because Iím guessing you havenít.



Do you pay attention to the industry? DL has hired over 4K the last 4 years. If you have 4K below you at AA thatís an 8000# swing. Have at it, but I think youíd be insane to leave.

I never said our contract was amazing. LTD and STD are at the top of list next for the next contract. But our contract is by no means terrible.

Go look at the contract comparisons. We arenít far off in many categories and actually lead in some.

NorthwestAA
03-26-2018, 07:58 PM
Do you pay attention to the industry? DL has hired over 4K the last 4 years. If you have 4K below you at AA that’s an 8000# swing. Have at it, but I think you’d be insane to leave.

I never said our contract was amazing. LTD and STD are at the top of list next for the next contract. But our contract is by no means terrible.

Go look at the contract comparisons. We aren’t far off in many categories and actually lead in some.

I'm right around 10,000, should I leave? :eek: Just kidding.

Glad to see LTD and STD at the top of the list. I was kind of disappointed that LOS took priority over LTD. It's not that I don't think the furloughs should have gotten LOS it's just that in my opinion it's a no brainer as to which is the most important to get fixed first. The combination of poor sick time, limited LTD, and no STD is kinda scary. I have a decent rainy day fund set aside, but we should at least be on par with Delta, United, and Alaska.

I heard rumor that we've had fairly new hires leave for Delta, which I could see. If I were looking for somewhere to go from the regionals or military it would probably be first choice, but things change. In flight school my first choice was American followed by United, then after 9-11 it was Alaska. What do you know? I got my old first choice! I think things are improving here and am optimistic they will continue to do so.

I've been lurking on this site for a while, thought I should start throwing my 2 cents in.

If AF stands for Air Force, thank you for your service.

Surprise
03-26-2018, 11:06 PM
I donít think it stands for Air Force...

Clint
03-27-2018, 03:39 AM
Oh please. Youíve had a late paycheck? Thatís laughable. The one minor mistake on my check was fixed promptly.

Explain to me how the company is violating the contract? Weak contract language which the APA and company disagree on shouldnít count.

Wow. Just wow.

Just because you've only had one minor mistake doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The pay process is routinely highlighted for its poor processes - our pilots shouldn't have to expend as much time and effort with Direct Connect as they do.

While I can only speak second hand of pay problems, I can speak directly to contract issues. I've seen them, I sponsor new hires who I have to help all the time dealing with contract violations, and I work for contract compliance and submit grievances (all of which have been due to contractual violations).

It's not about the company violating weak contract language, it's about them straight up violating provisions. And APA has absolutely not agreed to this provisions as weak language, they routinely identify the violations to members. Including:

- Violations of RO provisions, to include placing pilots into RO for a trip that was removed for previous RO (they should be removed with pay - 4.C7.b.). This also ties into the pay process violations.
- Improper filling of open time, primarily reassigning lineholders and reserves to fill open time. Before the AIP, this was a straight up violation. It is now allowed, but only after all other options have been attempted (which they don't do).
- Reassignment of reserves. The JCBA describes a "regularly scheduled pilot" as a lineholder. Reassignments only apply to regularly scheduled pilots. Scheduling regularly reassigns reserves.
- Violation of contractual duty periods (specifically debrief). Section 2 and 7.A.7. state that the 15/30 minute debrief is part of all duty periods (FDP/RDP). Scheduling does not acknowledge this simply because FOS is not programmed for it and they routinely schedule reserves right up to their FAR 117 FDP/RDP, which is a violation of their contractual duty period.

I could go on, but I hope you get the picture.

Buzzlightyear
03-27-2018, 04:32 AM
There is a mentality that persists: ďIf i didnít see it, it doesnít happenĒ. This mentality has a related cousin ďif it doesnít happen to me it doesnít matterĒ.

Sliceback
03-27-2018, 06:07 AM
The biggest impact on company culture is the guy youíre flying with, especially if heís the Captain. If youíre laughing, and flying the plane correctly, itís a great culture.

Fly with a miserable person, that you thank youíre lucky stars that youíre not married to, and there is no positive culture experience that can trump the miserable experience youíre enduring for several days. At that point youíre becoming a fan of Meatloaf singing (will you love me forever) -

So now I'm praying for the end of time
To hurry up and arrive
'Cause if I gotta spend another minute with you
I don't think that I can really survive
I'll never break my promise or forget my vow
But God only knows what I can do right now
I'm praying for the end of time
It's all that I can do
Praying for the end of time, so I can end my life with you!!

R57 relay
03-27-2018, 06:54 AM
The biggest impact on company culture is the guy youíre flying with, especially if heís the Captain. If youíre laughing, and flying the plane correctly, itís a great culture.

Fly with a miserable person, that you thank youíre lucky stars that youíre not married to, and there is no positive culture experience that can trump the miserable experience youíre enduring for several days. At that point youíre becoming a fan of Meatloaf singing (will you love me forever) -

So now I'm praying for the end of time
To hurry up and arrive
'Cause if I gotta spend another minute with you
I don't think that I can really survive
I'll never break my promise or forget my vow
But God only knows what I can do right now
I'm praying for the end of time
It's all that I can do
Praying for the end of time, so I can end my life with you!!

Yep, and that applies to both seats.

Iíve got free, glowing recommendation letters to Delta for anyone that wants one.

Iíve had a really long run of good flying partners. We all complain, but I saw a big change in attitude after the raise-money talks.

Iíve asked many times on C&R, but donít remember getting an answer-how many airlines have you worked for that gave you as much outside of section 6 as weíve been given? I did get one answer, that it was a conspiracy to screw us later.

On pay issues-I rarely have any. I wonder if there is a big difference in LAA and LUS pay systems and effectiveness of their respective operations.

R57 relay
03-27-2018, 06:56 AM
There is a mentality that persists: ďIf i didnít see it, it doesnít happenĒ. This mentality has a related cousin ďif it doesnít happen to me it doesnít matterĒ.

There is a related mentality and I believe the internet feeds it-ďIf it happened to anyone, it happened to everyone, repeatedly.Ē

PRS Guitars
03-27-2018, 07:19 AM
The biggest impact on company culture is the guy youíre flying with, especially if heís the Captain. If youíre laughing, and flying the plane correctly, itís a great culture.


This!

Flew a trip last week, was a blast, really enjoyed the work. The captain was funny and laid back, and had a good cockpit demeanor. Had a trip 2 months ago, with a complete J-bag, he complained a lot and wasnít nice to anyone. Miserable trip, but light at the end of the tunnel, since it was only 4 days with him...fortunately, my trips here have vastly been closer to the former then the latter.

I think itís probably the same if not slightly worse for Captains flying with miserable FOís.

Sliceback
03-27-2018, 07:43 AM
Itís better for the CAís - they can be the sh*t filter and insulate the other employees from the FO more from the FO can insulate others from the Captain.

Name User
03-27-2018, 08:40 AM
I cringe when the CA is a d bag to our FAs. Nothing will make your trip worse than an inflight group that hates the pilots.

One thing that I've done lately is to not answer when they ask about political views as inevitably it comes up on the first leg or two. Some of these guys need to watch it in our new world, I have pretty thick skin but there are liberal and or gay pilots out there who aren't pro boots and guns who will easily take offense to the crap they are spewing. Oh and it's a double cringe when they start off with "the problem with the blacks" which can be heard through the door and our black #1 hears it. Note this is generally directed to the nAAtive folks...

flydc
03-27-2018, 10:05 AM
I cringe when the CA is a d bag to our FAs. Nothing will make your trip worse than an inflight group that hates the pilots.

One thing that I've done lately is to not answer when they ask about political views as inevitably it comes up on the first leg or two. Some of these guys need to watch it in our new world, I have pretty thick skin but there are liberal and or gay pilots out there who aren't pro boots and guns who will easily take offense to the crap they are spewing. Oh and it's a double cringe when they start off with "the problem with the blacks" which can be heard through the door and our black #1 hears it. Note this is generally directed to the nAAtive folks...

Maybe Iím isolated from this on the E190, but I havenít had to deal with any of this. I would walk out of that cockpit so fast.

PowderFinger
03-27-2018, 10:16 AM
I cringe when the CA is a d bag to our FAs. Nothing will make your trip worse than an inflight group that hates the pilots.

One thing that I've done lately is to not answer when they ask about political views as inevitably it comes up on the first leg or two. Some of these guys need to watch it in our new world, I have pretty thick skin but there are liberal and or gay pilots out there who aren't pro boots and guns who will easily take offense to the crap they are spewing. Oh and it's a double cringe when they start off with "the problem with the blacks" which can be heard through the door and our black #1 hears it. Note this is generally directed to the nAAtive folks...

Part of my brief includes 'I like to keep race, religion, politics, and porn out of the cockpit'.

Does make it really tough for a few.

Name User
03-27-2018, 10:20 AM
Maybe Iím isolated from this on the E190, but I havenít had to deal with any of this. I would walk out of that cockpit so fast.

The LUS side was vastly different. Plus the E190 is a younger crowd as well.

MarineGrunt
03-27-2018, 10:27 AM
I havenít seen or heard anything close to the past few posts for what itís worth.

R57 relay
03-27-2018, 10:34 AM
I havenít seen or heard anything close to the past few posts for what itís worth.

There is a new "that guy" in CLT. A320 captain, seems to be doing a great job of alienating F/Os and F/As. I heard a couple of amazing things from my last two F/Os that flew with him. I suggested a call to pro standards.

PowderFinger
03-27-2018, 10:41 AM
I havenít seen or heard anything close to the past few posts for what itís worth.

Super ... More of an issue in years past

EMBFlyer
03-27-2018, 12:39 PM
There is a new "that guy" in CLT. A320 captain, seems to be doing a great job of alienating F/Os and F/As. I heard a couple of amazing things from my last two F/Os that flew with him. I suggested a call to pro standards.

Does he have a hatred for paper clips?

I heard a notorious one transferred from MIA to CLT.

Al Czervik
03-27-2018, 12:40 PM
There is a new "that guy" in CLT. A320 captain, seems to be doing a great job of alienating F/Os and F/As. I heard a couple of amazing things from my last two F/Os that flew with him. I suggested a call to pro standards.

Details please.

FlyyGuyy
03-27-2018, 01:15 PM
Does he have a hatred for paper clips?

I heard a notorious one transferred from MIA to CLT.

i might have been on his jumpseat a while back. was a wild ride, jaw on floor, and the newer first officer was just trying to get through it.



also recently heard about a guy who "hates mint" and won't allow gum chewing, that was interesting.

Name User
03-27-2018, 01:16 PM
Lots of nAAtves transferring in to CLT.

Have fun!

Pilot X
03-27-2018, 02:10 PM
Part of my brief includes 'I like to keep race, religion, politics, and porn out of the cockpit'.

Does make it really tough for a few.

What do you have against porn? :D

R57 relay
03-27-2018, 03:09 PM
Details please.

Not here. Nothing we haven't seen before, but hard to believe that it still happens today.

Just the 1% of 5%.

R57 relay
03-27-2018, 03:10 PM
Does he have a hatred for paper clips?

I heard a notorious one transferred from MIA to CLT.

Quickly making a name.

mainlineAF
03-27-2018, 03:36 PM
There is a related mentality and I believe the internet feeds it-ďIf it happened to anyone, it happened to everyone, repeatedly.Ē



Amen. I canít imagine if we had to deal with any really serious problems. You know, like furloughs, displacements and pay cuts.

If guys/girls canít be happy during the best times in airline history since the late 90s then watch out if stuff hits the fan.

mainlineAF
03-27-2018, 03:45 PM
The LUS side was vastly different. Plus the E190 is a younger crowd as well.



The 190 isnít nearly as young as it once was. Lots of the young third list captains have bid off and have been replaced with much older TWA guys.

Plus on the fo side it sometimes goes senior in class so the older guys are in the right seat too.

Al Czervik
03-27-2018, 04:25 PM
Not here. Nothing we haven't seen before, but hard to believe that it still happens today.

Just the 1% of 5%.

Iím always blown away with what some consider acceptable.

Al Czervik
03-27-2018, 04:30 PM
We did?

See: Palos Verdes Inn, Palace Station, Days Inn BDL

What are you saying???
Do you even remember how close Trader Joeís was to Palos?!?!?

R57 relay
03-27-2018, 05:35 PM
What are you saying???
Do you even remember how close Trader Joeís was to Palos?!?!?

I used to leave the PVI running and go by the CP. I'd think, "If we could layover here, in that hotel."

Al Czervik
03-27-2018, 06:02 PM
I used to leave the PVI running and go by the CP. I'd think, "If we could layover here, in that hotel."

My favorite in the system

aa73
03-27-2018, 06:44 PM
Lots of nAAtves transferring in to CLT.

Have fun!

Uncalled for, and lame.

A330FoodCritic
03-27-2018, 07:42 PM
What do you have against porn? :D

Back at Chautauqua we had a female captain who would put pics of naked guys around the cockpit, pretty hilarious.

Surprise
03-27-2018, 07:50 PM
Uncalled for, and lame.

Totally agree. This nonsense needs to stop. I was hired at LUS, but switched to the 737 where I fly with almost 100% LAA guys. I donít know about the other fleets, but the 737 easily has the most laid back group guys Iíve ever worked with.

A330FoodCritic
03-27-2018, 07:53 PM
I cringe when the CA is a d bag to our FAs. Nothing will make your trip worse than an inflight group that hates the pilots.

One thing that I've done lately is to not answer when they ask about political views as inevitably it comes up on the first leg or two. Some of these guys need to watch it in our new world, I have pretty thick skin but there are liberal and or gay pilots out there who aren't pro boots and guns who will easily take offense to the crap they are spewing. Oh and it's a double cringe when they start off with "the problem with the blacks" which can be heard through the door and our black #1 hears it. Note this is generally directed to the nAAtive folks...

Maybe Iím isolated from this on the E190, but I havenít had to deal with any of this. I would walk out of that cockpit so fast.

Likewise on A330, seriously don't see it.

full of luv
03-28-2018, 03:19 AM
Yep, and that applies to both seats.

Iíve got free, glowing recommendation letters to Delta for anyone that wants one.

Iíve had a really long run of good flying partners. We all complain, but I saw a big change in attitude after the raise-money talks.

Iíve asked many times on C&R, but donít remember getting an answer-how many airlines have you worked for that gave you as much outside of section 6 as weíve been given? I did get one answer, that it was a conspiracy to screw us later.

On pay issues-I rarely have any. I wonder if there is a big difference in LAA and LUS pay systems and effectiveness of their respective operations.

Aint this the truth!!! In my reserve unit 20yrs ago, EVERY AA pilot would BEOTCH about the company and Mgmt and the way they were treated as cost units.
Mgmt would CHARGE the new hires to ride non-rev TO WORK (for something like 6 or 12 yrs) (if there was a seat) prompting many to commute offline to save money.
One new hire that got bumped back to Eagle after the furloughs had to basically PAY to go sit reserve in San Juan according to him due to non-rev fees, taxes to commute.
When AA furloughed, they CUT OFF all their furloughees from non-rev bene's (even with a fee) after like 90 days forcing many to find ways to get to financial life-saving reserve jobs on their own, all while the other majors made some sort of non-rev provisions last through the furloughs.

After Delta got their new contract in late 2000 I believe, mgmt at AA offered Delta + 1%, with the only caveat being that future disputes went to baseball style arbitration (each side proposes solution, mediator just picks one) but APA thought it was a "trap" for the future so turned it down, obviously no one thought 9-11 type of downturn was coming, but that one ended up hurting.

Anyway, today's AA Mgmt has given PS outside of section 6, offered raises outside of section 6, and improved work rules outside section 6. That would have been inconceivable in years past!

It would seem to compare AA "culture" today to the past, at least from a mgmt/APA animosity level, it seems to have completely changed.

Best of luck to APA/AA in keeping up the forward momentum.

NorthwestAA
03-29-2018, 10:06 PM
Aint this the truth!!! In my reserve unit 20yrs ago, EVERY AA pilot would BEOTCH about the company and Mgmt and the way they were treated as cost units.
Mgmt would CHARGE the new hires to ride non-rev TO WORK (for something like 6 or 12 yrs) (if there was a seat) prompting many to commute offline to save money.
One new hire that got bumped back to Eagle after the furloughs had to basically PAY to go sit reserve in San Juan according to him due to non-rev fees, taxes to commute.
When AA furloughed, they CUT OFF all their furloughees from non-rev bene's (even with a fee) after like 90 days forcing many to find ways to get to financial life-saving reserve jobs on their own, all while the other majors made some sort of non-rev provisions last through the furloughs.

After Delta got their new contract in late 2000 I believe, mgmt at AA offered Delta + 1%, with the only caveat being that future disputes went to baseball style arbitration (each side proposes solution, mediator just picks one) but APA thought it was a "trap" for the future so turned it down, obviously no one thought 9-11 type of downturn was coming, but that one ended up hurting.

Anyway, today's AA Mgmt has given PS outside of section 6, offered raises outside of section 6, and improved work rules outside section 6. That would have been inconceivable in years past!

It would seem to compare AA "culture" today to the past, at least from a mgmt/APA animosity level, it seems to have completely changed.

Best of luck to APA/AA in keeping up the forward momentum.

It definitely does seem like weíre improving, but a long ways to go to get to Southwest type culture. The Chief pilots they seem to be hiring in LAX, CLT, DFW, etc. seem to all be top notch, which adds hope.

LordRatner
03-30-2018, 04:33 AM
It definitely does seem like weíre improving, but a long ways to go to get to Southwest type culture. The Chief pilots they seem to be hiring in LAX, CLT, DFW, etc. seem to all be top notch, which adds hope.The chief pilots in LGA are absolutely superb. Exactly the type of servant leadership you read about in organizational management textbooks.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

full of luv
03-30-2018, 04:34 AM
It definitely does seem like weíre improving, but a long ways to go to get to Southwest type culture. The Chief pilots they seem to be hiring in LAX, CLT, DFW, etc. seem to all be top notch, which adds hope.

Mgmt at AA (well Parker specifically) seems to know how to "step in it" at least periodically.
There's articles now floating around about how he told an FA that complained about the older/less reliable planes on the LIM market that they save the "good planes" for the "good customers".

While this may be true, and even smart business, like many things that Parker has said in the past, many/most best go unsaid.

Saabs
03-30-2018, 06:59 AM
Mgmt at AA (well Parker specifically) seems to know how to "step in it" at least periodically.
There's articles now floating around about how he told an FA that complained about the older/less reliable planes on the LIM market that they save the "good planes" for the "good customers".

While this may be true, and even smart business, like many things that Parker has said in the past, many/most best go unsaid.
That was at a crew news and kinda misquoted. He just said they want the best planes on the routes with the most business passengers. Makes perfect sense.

Al Czervik
03-30-2018, 07:07 AM
That was at a crew news and kinda misquoted. He just said they want the best planes on the routes with the most business passengers. Makes perfect sense.

And that stuff is supposed to be ďoff the record.Ē

Name User
03-30-2018, 07:09 AM
Mgmt at AA (well Parker specifically) seems to know how to "step in it" at least periodically.
There's articles now floating around about how he told an FA that complained about the older/less reliable planes on the LIM market that they save the "good planes" for the "good customers".

While this may be true, and even smart business, like many things that Parker has said in the past, many/most best go unsaid.

Maybe you'd prefer he blow sunshine up our butts?

Floobs
03-30-2018, 08:34 AM
They are gonna stop doing these if people keep taking to the press.

EMBFlyer
03-30-2018, 12:06 PM
They are gonna stop doing these if people keep taking to the press.

That's funny, if you believe that!

They've been saying "Do not share your password! These are internal!" blah, blah, blah for years...since the US Airways days.

They'll never stop doing these. They won't give up the control of information.

sumwherelse
03-30-2018, 12:42 PM
I havenít seen or heard anything close to the past few posts for what itís worth.

I get it ALL THE TIME!! Nothing makes a trip worse than having to listen to someone ramble on about their beliefs that are absolute truths and everyone agrees with!!!

Dolphinflyer
03-30-2018, 06:29 PM
I get it ALL THE TIME!! Nothing makes a trip worse than having to listen to someone ramble on about their beliefs that are absolute truths and everyone agrees with!!!

You have no idea the fun you're missing out on. In fact, if I was independently wealthy, I believe I would downbid to FO and spend my days mentally twisting these guys like Hannibal Lector did to his cellmate "Meigs" in the original "Silence of the Lambs".

The "Rapture" guys our my specialty. Listen to them go on and on about how the end times are near and the rapture is near because "God" talked to them.

Let it slide for awhile, maybe 1/2-1hour, then get them talking about their recent 401K gains. They'll be non-stop about how they're kicking arse.

Then hit them with, "Don't you think if the rapture happened soon, St Peter will look at your 401K plan like you've been hedging your bets and send you down to hell?"


Good for a couple of hours of silence until the STAR descent.

Name User
03-30-2018, 07:03 PM
I've been thinking about wearing a Hillary shirt underneath my white uniform shirt so you can see it bleed through. Maybe throw some atheist stickers on my "kit bag" too.

Bonus points for a LBGQT or whatever it is rainbow lanyard.

sumwherelse
03-30-2018, 07:12 PM
Oh my god. LOVE IT!!!!

Dolphinflyer
03-30-2018, 08:15 PM
I've been thinking about wearing a Hillary shirt underneath my white uniform shirt so you can see it bleed through. Maybe throw some atheist stickers on my "kit bag" too.

Bonus points for a LBGQT or whatever it is rainbow lanyard.

Around 10-15 years ago while, I noticed the crew cut #1 FA with George Bush political buttons displayed on his luggage.

Smart, well informed guy. When I commented about how few friends he must have on each leg, he replied with a chit eating grin with the statement, "You have no idea how much fun I have every leg". :D

Probably like clubbing baby Harp seals.

jcountry
03-31-2018, 10:20 AM
And that stuff is supposed to be ďoff the record.Ē

He should stop having these talks.

Some dumbass is just gonna take everything he says the wrong way anyhow

Name User
03-31-2018, 02:46 PM
He should stop having these talks.

Some dumbass is just gonna take everything he says the wrong way anyhow

Just because some people will misinterpret isn't a reason to stop IMO. Personally I like watching them and Vasu's as well. Speaking of which there is another one up from a few days ago. I actually get more from Network Planning than Parker/Isom.

jcountry
03-31-2018, 03:22 PM
Just because some people will misinterpret isn't a reason to stop IMO. Personally I like watching them and Vasu's as well. Speaking of which there is another one up from a few days ago. I actually get more from Network Planning than Parker/Isom.

Iím not talking about people misinterpreting.
Iím talking about these clowns who are trying to make out like they are journalists. There are about 3 of them who repeatedly write articles where Dougís stuff is taken totally out of context.

Doug should stick to written scripts, and not give those guys ammo. You donít see other CEOs doing this-because itís dangerous.

Itís nice that he wants to talk directly to employees. Itís not nice that the talks are being used against us every time.

Cheddar
03-31-2018, 06:36 PM
Vasu is a company treasure! Heís probably the overall smartest guy in management.

He said something a month ago (paraphrasing): ďwell, you canít always just live by what the spreadsheet says...Ē he stopped, looked around and smiled ďI probably shouldnít say that, but itís true right?!?Ē I could just imagine Isom squirming.


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A330FoodCritic
04-01-2018, 06:21 AM
Vasu is very entertaining and informative.

I admit it, I watched the PHX town hall thingy.

sumwherelse
04-01-2018, 07:06 AM
Iíve listened to him in person a couple times and I swear if that guy leaves Iím going with him. He is the best thing this management team has.

Saabs
04-01-2018, 08:45 AM
Whatís Vasuís background? Isom was originally northwest right ?

Cheddar
04-01-2018, 08:53 AM
Iíve listened to him in person a couple times and I swear if that guy leaves Iím going with him. He is the best thing this management team has.


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh man, donít even think that horrible thought


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PRS Guitars
04-01-2018, 09:17 AM
Whatís Vasuís background? Isom was originally northwest right ?

He was a teacher in Baltimore, then hired at AA around 2000. This from the latest townhall...

EMBFlyer
04-01-2018, 09:24 AM
Whatís Vasuís background? Isom was originally northwest right ?

Yes, Isom was Northwest.

Surprise
04-01-2018, 03:10 PM
Vasu would probably be more fun to hang out with, but Isom is no slouch. Iím much happier with him in Kirbyís old job.



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