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View Full Version : Norwegian financial performance


spacemonkey
03-23-2018, 07:12 PM
https://www.reuters.com/article/norweg-air-shut-equity/update-4-norwegian-air-raises-168-mln-after-warning-of-bigger-loss-idUSL8N1R30G8

:D


Jetpowered
03-24-2018, 05:20 PM
I've never understood anyone gloating at the pain of another...

Flytolive
03-24-2018, 05:32 PM
I've never understood anyone gloating at the pain of another...Do you understand what NAI is or the potential threat it poses to the airline piloting profession?


WHACKMASTER
03-24-2018, 10:01 PM
Do you understand what NAI is or the potential threat it poses to the airline piloting profession?

Obviously he doesn’t.

captjns
03-25-2018, 05:34 AM
NAI has been operating since 2014, or for the better part of 4 years. Yet, U.S. carriers continue to hire in droves... and will continue for the foreseeable future... especially with the retirements on the horizon.

As a side... I’ve yet to read published articles Op Eds, or view, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, or CNBC for that matter pilots, picketing their airlines, or appearing on the “Hill” giving testimony relating to perceived potential damage to their careers, with the outsourcing flights to foreign operators by their own airlines.

The big 3 out source jobs, with other carriers, in the name of code sharing. Share the study by ALPA showing the number of jobs lost, given away, or deprived from this Code Sharing business model.

Mose consumers choose a service provider that will provide the best service for the money paid. NAI will continue to provide low fares until the day investors say “Enough is Enough!”. Consumers will continue to fly NAI until the day other service providers pony up with adequate service commensurate with the fares paid.

So… how about brainstorm with sales, and management as to how your carrier can draw the market share away from NAI. Plead your case to management as to why outsourcing jobs, in the name of code sharing, is detrimental to the growth, moral, and overall pride.

After all, whose job is safe with cheaper labor available from both sides of the pond... even with NAI in the mix? Who knows... a NAI/DAL or AA, or even UAL may be coming to an airport near you.:eek:

Flytolive
03-25-2018, 05:55 AM
So… how about brainstorm with sales, and management as to how your carrier can draw the market share away from NAI.No worries mate. NAI's lack of feed on either side of the pond will be its downfall even with its completely unfair 'flags of convenience' business model.

Denti
03-25-2018, 06:43 AM
No worries mate. NAI's lack of feed on either side of the pond will be its downfall even with its completely unfair 'flags of convenience' business model.

Dunno, they get feed by easyJet (same as westjet by the way) and of course their own shorthaul flights. No idea about the other side, although i read somewhere that they do something with jetblue about codesharing.

captjns
03-25-2018, 07:06 AM
No worries mate. NAI's lack of feed on either side of the pond will be its downfall even with its completely unfair 'flags of convenience' business model.

Wasn’t that the mantra by the naysayers in 2014:rolleyes:?

By the way, Norwegian Air Argentina has been approved to operate Buenos Aires-Perth route, applying for Singapore rights.

https://blueswandaily.com/norwegian-air-argentina-approved-to-operate-buenos-aires-perth-route-applying-for-singapore-rights/

Flytolive
03-25-2018, 07:10 AM
Dunno, they get feed by easyJet (same as westjet by the way) and of course their own shorthaul flights. True, but I am not sure how efficient that is especially outside of Scandinavia, Luton and Gatwick. Their long-haul point to point and secondary airport model is questionable to say the least and they are taking on network carriers with efficient hubs at the most desirable airports. Time will tell, but their financial losses seem to be indicative of serious problems.

Joachim
03-25-2018, 10:20 AM
True, but I am not sure how efficient that is especially outside of Scandinavia, Luton and Gatwick. Their long-haul point to point and secondary airport model is questionable to say the least and they are taking on network carriers with efficient hubs at the most desirable airports. Time will tell, but their financial losses seem to be indicative of serious problems.

Norwegians own short haul operation is the third largest low cost carrier in Europe. Combined with EasyJet, Europe's second largest LCC, it is fair to say that they have plenty of feed on the European side. If you look at the focus cities in the US (e.g. FLL, EWR, OAK, IAH, DEN, SEA) it is not hard to see that they are aligning themselves with JB, Spirit, SW,AK, Frontier, et. al.

Flytolive
03-25-2018, 11:21 AM
Combined with EasyJet, Europe's second largest LCC, it is fair to say that they have plenty of feed on the European side. If you look at the focus cities in the US (e.g. FLL, EWR, OAK, IAH, DEN, SEA) it is not hard to see that they are aligning themselves with JB, Spirit, SW,AK, Frontier, et. al.Wow! NAI is going to code/revenue share with JB, Spirit, SWA, Alaska, Frontier and other U.S. airlines? That is definitely news to me, but they better hurry up as they are bleeding cash at an impressive rate and with the stock price dropping those equity offerings are becoming less and less helpful.

Those considering flying for this outfit might want to consider how having Norwegian on your resume might look like to the US airlines' hiring departments.

The Dominican
03-25-2018, 08:06 PM
how having Norwegian on your resume might look like to the US airlines' hiring departments.

I remember when people used to say that about Fedex and SWA:rolleyes: not too long ago they used to say the same thing about Emirates...., many pilots have gotten hired since then.

Good’ol ALPO will find the new villain soon enough and focus the laser pointer their way, and all of a sudden just like you forgot to hate GoJets..., you will forget to hate NAI;)

But don’t worry, they will have a new bad guy before long.

NEDude
03-26-2018, 02:08 AM
With the way Norwegian is set up, with NAS, NAN, NAI, NUK and now NAA, I could very well see them being able to shed certain unprofitable divisions if the bleeding continues.

Unofficially the word is that the biggest loser of money right now is the LGW short haul operation, which is overwhelmingly handled by the NAI certificate. This is all unofficial word of mouth from people I know who work for Norwegian. But Norwegian is significantly scaling back their short haul flying out of LGW, and eventually the only short haul flying out of LGW will be to CPH, ARN and OSL. All short haul feed in LGW will be handled by the easyJet partnership. So that does lend a bit of credence to the story that the LGW short haul operation is not doing well.

Their LCC short haul operation to/from Scandinavia is doing quite well, and has been for several years. That is mostly done on the NAS certificate. So again, long-term I could very well see Norwegian killing some of the certificates/divisions, but still surviving as an entity overall.

captjns
03-26-2018, 03:04 AM
Those considering flying for this outfit might want to consider how having Norwegian on your resume might look like to the US airlines' hiring departments.

How many times have I read the above statement?:rolleyes:

Come on Flytolive... is that best advise you have to offer pilots seeking a career in aviation? How about ummm... keep your noses clean... ummm do the job you’ve been hired to do without reserve... umm don’t violate FARs... don’t commit any felonies.

I mean, and its me opining... giving positive advise to budding birdmen/women reads a lot better than “You better not fly for this or that outfit!”, don’t you thinK?

The Dominican
03-26-2018, 04:35 AM
How many times have I read the above statement?:rolleyes:giving positive advise to budding birdmen/women reads a lot better than “You better not fly for this or that outfit!”, don’t you thinK?

Specially when all that tough talk ends in nothing:rolleyes:

captjns
03-26-2018, 05:27 AM
Specially when all that tough talk ends in nothing:rolleyes:

I’ve heard the same rhetoric, way back since ‘92 (ala Flytolive etal). They love to state, aver, and or post... just to aver, write, and or post. Then toddle off without providing substance of any sort to their assertions.

Well... just to make it abundantly clear to the naysayers.... First tier carriers such as UAL, DAL, AA, WN, AK, FedEx, UPS etc. are hiring in full strength. Many are joining after their stints with ME3, Chinese, Japanese, and European carriers. And all this with a list of foreign carriers, on their C.V.s they’ve flown with prior to joining their respective U.S. carrier.:eek:

Wait... there’s more! Some have had offers from multiple 1st tier U.S. carriers too!:eek:

Flytolive
03-26-2018, 06:16 AM
That's pretty funny.

I simply said to consider it and you all assumed it would be a negative. And here one would assume flying new equipment over the pond would look good on a CV or that one would not even need a CV if we are to believe that NAI will be a big success with industry-leading compensation some day.

I guess pilots should consider these reactions from the supposed cheerleaders/apologists for NAI.

SUX4U
03-26-2018, 07:53 AM
I don’t wish ill will on anyone that joins NAI that lives and works here in the USA. I do feel for them that NAI is the best offer they could get at this point in time. I hope for those that join NAI that would rather be at a US major will get the call sooner rather than later and have a long and successful career.

Joachim
03-26-2018, 09:38 AM
I don’t wish ill will on anyone that joins NAI that lives and works here in the USA. I do feel for them that NAI is the best offer they could get at this point in time. I hope for those that join NAI that would rather be at a US major will get the call sooner rather than later and have a long and successful career.

You don't have to feel sorry for us bud. Just be happy with what you've got.

captjns
03-26-2018, 10:43 AM
I don’t wish ill will on anyone that joins NAI that lives and works here in the USA. I do feel for them that NAI is the best offer they could get at this point in time. I hope for those that join NAI that would rather be at a US major will get the call sooner rather than later and have a long and successful career.


Not all that apply, for what ever reason, will get that dream job with DAL, UAL, AA etal. Further those who’ve been serving as crew members on large transport category aircraft have no desire to join the regionals. Many don’t want to wait for the lenght of time required to flow through to the main line carriers. At the end of the day, those choosing to fly with NAI with basing in the U.S. are educated consumers. They are cognizant of the pluses and minuses of NAI.

captjns
03-26-2018, 10:44 AM
That's pretty funny.

I simply said to consider it and you all assumed it would be a negative. And here one would assume flying new equipment over the pond would look good on a CV or that one would not even need a CV if we are to believe that NAI will be a big success with industry-leading compensation some day.

I guess pilots should consider these reactions from the supposed cheerleaders/apologists for NAI.

No... your comment regarding HR’s review of an individual’s reference to NAI on their CV was derogatory, ignorant, baseless, and unwarranted. And I’m being a gentleman with my words.

The Dominican
03-26-2018, 11:29 AM
I guess pilots should consider these reactions from the supposed cheerleaders/apologists for NAI.

Not an apologist for NAI nor was I an apologist for SWA, VA, Fedex, Continental, Jetblue or any other of the former “destructors of this career as we know it” when it was the group to hate for everything bad that happens to you (of the moment) we are just trying for you to understand that it is all fed to you, and you don’t even know what you are eating:rolleyes:

Flytolive
03-26-2018, 11:55 AM
No... your comment regarding HR’s review of an individual’s reference to NAI on their CV was derogatory, ignorant, baseless, and unwarranted. And I’m being a gentleman with my words.Those are your words not mine, but they are quite telling.

Not an apologist for NAI nor was I an apologist for SWA, VA, Fedex, Continental, Jetblue or any other of the former “destructors of this career as we know it” when it was the group to hate for everything bad that happens to you (of the moment) we are just trying for you to understand that it is all fed to you, and you don’t even know what you are eating:rolleyes:Hyperbolic nonsense. Few are worried about Norwegian. It's the 'flags of convenience' model that should worry every pilot. If you need to see where that leads just look at the history of the merchant marine in the U.S.

The Dominican
03-26-2018, 12:48 PM
Hyperbolic nonsense. Few are worried about Norwegian. It's the 'flags of convenience' model that should worry every pilot. If you need to see where that leads just look at the history of the merchant marine in the U.S.

Like I said...., you are being fed down to the example of doomsday:rolleyes:

You will get a new bad guy to hate soon enough!

Flytolive
03-26-2018, 01:20 PM
Like I said...., you are being fed down to the example of doomsday. You will get a new bad guy to hate soon enough!Repeating nonsense doesn't making any less nonsensical.

U.S. merchant fleet sails toward oblivion - Baltimore Sun (http://www.baltimoresun.com/bal-te.bz.sealift06aug06-story.html)

PowderFinger
03-26-2018, 01:24 PM
I’ve heard the same rhetoric, way back since ‘92 (ala Flytolive etal). They love to state, aver, and or post... just to aver, write, and or post. Then toddle off without providing substance of any sort to their assertions.

Well... just to make it abundantly clear to the naysayers.... First tier carriers such as UAL, DAL, AA, WN, AK, FedEx, UPS etc. are hiring in full strength. Many are joining after their stints with ME3, Chinese, Japanese, and European carriers. And all this with a list of foreign carriers, on their C.V.s they’ve flown with prior to joining their respective U.S. carrier.:eek:

Wait... there’s more! Some have had offers from multiple 1st tier U.S. carriers too!:eek:

A lot of truth in your statement.

Flytolive
03-26-2018, 02:22 PM
Norwegian lost almost twice as much in one quarter than it raised in its private offering and it is selling A320 NEOs. Yikes!


Norwegian raises $168 million to lift finances, warns of 1Q operating losses
Mar 21, 2018 Helen Massy-Beresford | ATW Plus

Norwegian Air Shuttle said it raised NOK1.3 billion ($168 million) in a private share placement as the LCC pushes ahead with its expansion amid rising fuel prices and currency effects, which are making for a “challenging” first quarter.

Norwegian has been shaking up the transatlantic travel market, using its rapidly growing fleet to launch new destinations and challenge legacy carriers on an important section of their networks with cheap tickets.

But on March 20, the LCC warned its first-quarter operating loss would be bigger than the same period last year at NOK2.3 billion, versus NOK1.7 billion, because of currency fluctuations and rising fuel costs.

“The average price for jet fuel in the first quarter 2018 is so far 12% higher than the assumption in the company’s current guidance, and the euro is 8% stronger than anticipated. Operations have also suffered from somewhat challenging weather conditions,” Norwegian said.

The carrier still expects capacity to increase 40% in 2018 and while it kept its prediction of unit costs excluding fuel unchanged for the full year, it said higher-than-expected fuel prices would lead to unit costs including depreciation rising to between NOK 0.415-0.42, up from a previous estimate of NOK 0.405 to 0.41.

Norwegian acting CFO Tore Ostby sounded a positive note about operational performance for the coming months on a conference call, during which the airline explained the proceeds of the placement would help fund its continued expansion: Norwegian launched flights between the UK and Argentina last month and plans to begin flying between Ireland and Canada this summer.

“We’re very comfortable on bookings and the market for the summer season,” Ostby said.

“We are very geared towards leisure and the summer season so with 100% growth in our long-haul operations at the same time as we have low season that is the explanation of our disappointing first quarter,” Ostby said. “Of course you will see that seasonality makes all the difference in the second and third quarters.”

He added: “2016 and 2017 were years of investment. This first half of 2018 is the final stage of the ramp-up of our long-haul operations so in the back-end of this year we will see that the growth of long-haul will gradually slow.”

Excluding fuel, the carrier is expecting unit costs to drop 10%-12% in 2018.

Norwegian is taking delivery of nine Boeing 787s in the first half of 2018, and expects to operate a fleet of 30 787s by summer, while capacity growth will slow in the second half with only two 787s scheduled for delivery. Ticket sales for intercontinental routes are growing faster than capacity, Norwegian said, adding that it expects single digit growth rates in the European short-haul network with stable demand growth.

The airline also said it is in discussions to sell up to five Airbus A320neos leased to HK Express with an estimated gain of $15-$20 million.

Norwegian has also initiated a review of strategic options for its frequent flyer program, Norwegian Reward, which has more than 7 million members and expected to rise to 9 million by the end of the year.

The airline will ask for approval to issue more shares with potential proceeds of up to NOK200 million at an extraordinary general meeting on or around April 4, it said.

GraceMonth
03-26-2018, 03:44 PM
Disregard.

SUX4U
03-26-2018, 05:32 PM
You don't have to feel sorry for us bud. Just be happy with what you've got.

Sorry pal, but when you’re already making rock bottom wages on a 787 and your company is burning through cash at an astounding rate then I don’t know when the appropriate time to feel sorry for you guys would be? And yes, I am indeed very happy and grateful with what I have going, thanks!

spacemonkey
03-26-2018, 10:54 PM
Do you refute that flag of convenience schemes were the downfall of the us maritime industry?

If you understand that it was, then you understand why nai is pursuing a loophole that must not be allowed. It’s not just ****ing on pseudo scabs flyingwidebodies for regional wages

NEDude
03-26-2018, 11:31 PM
I am not a financial expert, but it does seem that every airline that goes through periods of rapid growth also experiences poor financial performance at the same time.

Back in 2009-2011 everyone predicted Virgin America would be gone shortly as they were posting massive losses which coincided with massive growth. When the growth slowed, the profits began. Pilots were warned not to go there because when Virgin America inevitably went out of business, having Virgin America on your resume would be a career killer. Virgin America is officially gone, but not because they went out of business, they became profitable and were sold. Now all the Virgin America pilots are ALPA members flying for a legacy airline.

Anyway, not really sure what will happen with Norwegian long-term as they have several divisions (some not even aviation related) and operating certificates, and the corporate laws of Norway and the EU are different than that of the U.S. I am more interested in what happens after the growth slows towards the end of this year. That will be the real indicator of whether they can sustain long term.

The Dominican
03-27-2018, 07:49 AM
Repeating nonsense doesn't making any less nonsensical.

Neither does believing the nonsense....! after all, all those jobs that were supposed to “end this career as we know it” ended up doing that:rolleyes:

Flytolive
03-29-2018, 07:35 AM
Combined with EasyJet, Europe's second largest LCC, it is fair to say that they have plenty of feed on the European side.I guess this is why I couldn't find a list of code-share partners for Norwegian. Plenty of feed, huh?

If you look at the focus cities in the US (e.g. FLL, EWR, OAK, IAH, DEN, SEA) it is not hard to see that they are aligning themselves with JB, Spirit, SW,AK, Frontier, et. al.Not gonna happen without code-share and interline agreements.


EasyJet expands connecting flights platform
by Ian Taylor Mar 28th 2018, 08:20

The budget carrier pledged to “sign up other airlines throughout 2018” and revealed it’s in “advanced talks” on further expansion with airlines in the Middle East and Far East.

EasyJet launched its connections platform at Gatwick last September allowing passengers to book connecting long-haul flights with Norwegian Air and WestJet of Canada, and it extended the service to Milan Malpensa this spring in partnership with Italian airline Neos.

It has now added connections to Thomas Cook Airlines’ long-haul flights from Gatwick to the US and Caribbean and connections to Corsair and La Compagnie flights from Paris Orly, plus Norwegian flights from Paris Charles de Gaulle.

The Worldwide platform allows the booking of connecting flights between partner airlines without a need for the ‘interline’ and codeshare arrangements required of network carriers.

EasyJet said connections to Norwegian flights from Amsterdam Schiphol will follow this summer, along with connecting flights on as yet unnamed carriers from Venice and Berlin Tegel.

The carrier will also add connections to Loganair flights from Edinburgh and Inverness, although no start date has been confirmed.

EasyJet said: “Over half the airline’s flights and 53 million easyJet customers a year will be able to connect to airline partner services and other easyJet flights in a single booking.”

Johan Lundgren, easyJet chief executive said: “We’ve been delighted with the appetite of partner airports and airlines to expand our Worldwide by easyJet connections platform.

“EasyJet will sign up other airlines throughout 2018, with talks already far advanced with middle and far-eastern carriers and we plan to expand to other easyJet airports across Europe.”

Thomas Cook chief airlines officer Christoph Debus said: “We have added an aircraft at London Gatwick, increasing capacity at the airport by 12% this summer to meet customer demand.”

joseolay
03-29-2018, 11:03 AM
They're taking huge losses, yet still expanding annually by 40% in 2018 and their pilot labor costs are less than half of the US legacy airlines. That's pretty sad if you think about it. Taking away market share from the US legacy airlines and the international routes where the US legacy airline pilots earn the highest wages. NAI under cutting the legacy European airlines too.

It's one thing for companies like uber and lyft to take huge losses in the name of organically growing companies in a new untapped market. But what NAI is doing in an already well established and over saturated market with their cheap labor and undercutting the competition on ticket price is a shame. Essentially NAI is dumping their product into the US market below cost on the backs of under paid pilots.

It's certainly not fair and balanced competition and NAI is much worse for the US airline pilot career than the middle east airlines.

joseolay
03-29-2018, 11:15 AM
Back in 2009-2011 everyone predicted Virgin America would be gone shortly as they were posting massive losses which coincided with massive growth. When the growth slowed, the profits began. Pilots were warned not to go there because when Virgin America inevitably went out of business, having Virgin America on your resume would be a career killer. Virgin America is officially gone, but not because they went out of business, they became profitable and were sold. Now all the Virgin America pilots are ALPA members flying for a legacy airline.



Virgin America only got off the ground because a billionaire wanted an airline and had plenty of cash to burn. Their profits haven't made up for their past losses. Their pilots were paid well below Legacy airline pilots. The legacy airlines would be larger overall with more total pilots on their lists and have a larger presence in SFO, LAX and JFK if it wasn't for the highly subsidized startup pet airline Virgin America.

T28driver
03-29-2018, 11:55 AM
I have had several, overall very civil, discussions on here with NEDude and several others regarding the flags of convenience model, its effects on the maritime industry, and the similarities between the airlines and the Merchant Marines. The general response has been “yeah, but the airlines are different.”

I’ve worked in both industries, as licensed labor. Not many people have that in their background.

If nothing else scares you as a pilot, I would tell you to consider this:

When I left shipping, I was working as a 3rd mate on a US flag cargo ship built in the late 70’s. It was antiquated in every way. It was basically the El Faro. I made $15k/month take home when I was on it. I worked 6 months a year, and we had good union representation.

A Phillipino third mate I met in port on one of the last trips I did was on a brand new bulk carrier. He invited myself and a few of the other officers onboard for dinner. The ship was beautiful, spotless, and filled with modern technology. It was registered in Panama. My foreign compatriot made about $3k per month and worked 11 months out of the year.

The only difference between us was our nationality, and the registry of the ship.

busbusbaby
03-30-2018, 09:56 AM
Virgin America only got off the ground because a billionaire wanted an airline and had plenty of cash to burn. Their profits haven't made up for their past losses. Their pilots were paid well below Legacy airline pilots. The legacy airlines would be larger overall with more total pilots on their lists and have a larger presence in SFO, LAX and JFK if it wasn't for the highly subsidized startup pet airline Virgin America.
You know not of that which you speak.

Sniper66
04-05-2018, 11:38 AM
Norwegian lost almost twice as much in one quarter than it raised in its private offering and it is selling A320 NEOs. Yikes!


Norwegian raises $168 million to lift finances, warns of 1Q operating losses
Mar 21, 2018 Helen Massy-Beresford | ATW Plus

Norwegian Air Shuttle said it raised NOK1.3 billion ($168 million) in a private share placement as the LCC pushes ahead with its expansion amid rising fuel prices and currency effects, which are making for a “challenging” first quarter.

Norwegian has been shaking up the transatlantic travel market, using its rapidly growing fleet to launch new destinations and challenge legacy carriers on an important section of their networks with cheap tickets.

But on March 20, the LCC warned its first-quarter operating loss would be bigger than the same period last year at NOK2.3 billion, versus NOK1.7 billion, because of currency fluctuations and rising fuel costs.

“The average price for jet fuel in the first quarter 2018 is so far 12% higher than the assumption in the company’s current guidance, and the euro is 8% stronger than anticipated. Operations have also suffered from somewhat challenging weather conditions,” Norwegian said.

The carrier still expects capacity to increase 40% in 2018 and while it kept its prediction of unit costs excluding fuel unchanged for the full year, it said higher-than-expected fuel prices would lead to unit costs including depreciation rising to between NOK 0.415-0.42, up from a previous estimate of NOK 0.405 to 0.41.

Norwegian acting CFO Tore Ostby sounded a positive note about operational performance for the coming months on a conference call, during which the airline explained the proceeds of the placement would help fund its continued expansion: Norwegian launched flights between the UK and Argentina last month and plans to begin flying between Ireland and Canada this summer.

“We’re very comfortable on bookings and the market for the summer season,” Ostby said.

“We are very geared towards leisure and the summer season so with 100% growth in our long-haul operations at the same time as we have low season that is the explanation of our disappointing first quarter,” Ostby said. “Of course you will see that seasonality makes all the difference in the second and third quarters.”

He added: “2016 and 2017 were years of investment. This first half of 2018 is the final stage of the ramp-up of our long-haul operations so in the back-end of this year we will see that the growth of long-haul will gradually slow.”

Excluding fuel, the carrier is expecting unit costs to drop 10%-12% in 2018.

Norwegian is taking delivery of nine Boeing 787s in the first half of 2018, and expects to operate a fleet of 30 787s by summer, while capacity growth will slow in the second half with only two 787s scheduled for delivery. Ticket sales for intercontinental routes are growing faster than capacity, Norwegian said, adding that it expects single digit growth rates in the European short-haul network with stable demand growth.

The airline also said it is in discussions to sell up to five Airbus A320neos leased to HK Express with an estimated gain of $15-$20 million.

Norwegian has also initiated a review of strategic options for its frequent flyer program, Norwegian Reward, which has more than 7 million members and expected to rise to 9 million by the end of the year.

The airline will ask for approval to issue more shares with potential proceeds of up to NOK200 million at an extraordinary general meeting on or around April 4, it said.







By 2020
NAI and the 787 flying will be history
Due to heavy losses, expect around 35 787s to look for a new home
On the other hand the low cost 737 will be there

My 2c

NEDude
04-05-2018, 01:14 PM
By 2020
NAI and the 787 flying will be history
Due to heavy losses, expect around 35 787s to look for a new home
On the other hand the low cost 737 will be there

My 2c

NAI does not operate 787s...

captjns
04-05-2018, 03:19 PM
By 2020
NAI and the 787 flying will be history
Due to heavy losses, expect around 35 787s to look for a new home
On the other hand the low cost 737 will be there

My 2c

Yeah....:rolleyes:

T28driver
04-05-2018, 04:56 PM
NAI does not operate 787s...

Ned.

Nobody differentiates between the different flavors of Norwegian.

Don’t be pedantic.

Would it make you happier if he said Norwegian Air Shuttle? Although they technically don’t have 787’s either (even though they are the parent company), that honor goes to:

Norwegian Air Longhaul

And

Norwegian Air UK

Which are totally different and separate entities from

Norwegian Air International

And

Norwegian Air Argentina

Right?

I recommend we start using NASALIU just so all of the bases are covered.

Thoughts?

The Dominican
04-05-2018, 05:01 PM
By 2020
NAI and the 787 flying will be history
Due to heavy losses, expect around 35 787s to look for a new home
On the other hand the low cost 737 will be there

My 2c

Judging by your assertions of the end of the ME3 and the end of everyone’s career if they worked for them..., your 2c’s are in vietnamese Dong:rolleyes:

WHACKMASTER
04-06-2018, 05:47 AM
Ned.

Nobody differentiates between the different flavors of Norwegian.

Don’t be pedantic.

Would it make you happier if he said Norwegian Air Shuttle? Although they technically don’t have 787’s either (even though they are the parent company), that honor goes to:

Norwegian Air Longhaul

And

Norwegian Air UK

Which are totally different and separate entities from

Norwegian Air International

And

Norwegian Air Argentina

Right?

I recommend we start using NASALIU just so all of the bases are covered.

Thoughts?

And that right there is the whole point isn’t it?

Sniper66
04-06-2018, 06:31 AM
Judging by your assertions of the end of the ME3 and the end of everyone’s career if they worked for them..., your 2c’s are in vietnamese Dong:rolleyes:



You are upset because you either got turned down by a few majors back home or you are not hirable.

That’s why every statement you make is against the U.S airlines



PS about M3 .yes I said it and stick with it ....... Those RJ drivers at EK keep trying to get on with legacies poor guys with no luck,,,, few here and there thanks to their fathers or well connected ,,,,,
That’s my 2c

Andy
04-06-2018, 11:45 AM
You know not of that which you speak.

YGBSM. Virgin America had to do at least two financial restructurings (pretty sure it was three) just to survive. Each time, investors (including Branson) took a massive financial haircut. On one of the financial restructurings, Virgin employees got cut out of almost all of their equity stake before the company went public. The rank and file discovered this when the company IPO'd. Short memory?

Personally, I'm still amazed that anyone bought Virgin. ... by the way, how's the investment working out for Alaska?

The Dominican
04-06-2018, 02:45 PM
You are upset because you either got turned down by a few majors back home or you are not hirable.

That’s why every statement you make is against the U.S airlines
c

You have made the same statement over the years, i've been in this business a long, long time. And I have also mentioned in the past that the reason I am working abroad is because I got hired too many times in the US airline industry. Try to remember your exchanges so that you don't make a fool out of yourself over and over.

Sniper66
04-06-2018, 03:25 PM
You have made the same statement over the years, i've been in this business a long, long time. And I have also mentioned in the past that the reason I am working abroad is because I got hired too many times in the US airline industry. Try to remember your exchanges so that you don't make a fool out of yourself over and over.




Hired too many times? What happen they all fired you?

With that ego I am not surprised that you got canned from everyone here in the US

Stick with your freight job on the 76 and stop been a tool and acting like you know it all
Santo Domingo major Dominicana may give you a chance but a US legacy with that Attitude never will.

Oh by the way

How about Copa how did that go ? obviously they did not hired you as well

...stop giving people false info and bad suggestion. You don’t know **** about the US airlines business or Global aviation .

Nada

Keep posting to feel good about yourself

Andy
04-06-2018, 07:07 PM
And I have also mentioned in the past that the reason I am working abroad is because I got hired too many times in the US airline industry.

Well, anyone with a pulse can get hired at the regionals right now. And in the past, anyone with a pulse could get hired at Eastern, TWA, Independence Air, and a host of other defunct airlines.

You've been hauling cargo for AirJapan for around a decade so any 'experience' you have being hired in the US is comically dated. IIRC, you even regaled at how fine an experience your commute from the states is - drinking Courvoisier on your 10+ hour flight to/from your domicile (Gen Lee style on flightinfo where you posted as, fittingly, Dumb Pilot).
From reviewing your 'experience' on flightinfo, you were busy trying to apply to Focus Air Cargo (defunct dirbag operation) at one point, living in MSP (running a side business renting out crashpads). You even stated that when you went to AirJapan, you were a regional pilot, so it's not like you've been hired by a lot of decent US companies. From reading your CV on flightinfo, it sounds like you've been hired by a lot of US bottomfeeders and were too impatient or unqualified to be hired by a reputable US carrier.

NEDude
04-07-2018, 06:45 AM
And that right there is the whole point isn’t it?

Yes, because airlines owning multiple AOCs is so unusual... :rolleyes:

Seriously, how much did it cost for your selective viewpoint surgery?

Andy
04-07-2018, 07:20 AM
Yes, because airlines owning multiple AOCs is so unusual... :rolleyes:

Seriously, how much did it cost for your selective viewpoint surgery?

All of that doesn't matter when the entire corporation crumbles under its massive debt load. Is that where you're flying now? Good luck...

NEDude
04-07-2018, 08:22 AM
All of that doesn't matter when the entire corporation crumbles under its massive debt load. Is that where you're flying now? Good luck...

No, but thank you for the good wishes anyway.

T28driver
04-07-2018, 01:42 PM
Yes, because airlines owning multiple AOCs is so unusual... :rolleyes:

Seriously, how much did it cost for your selective viewpoint surgery?

So you do agree that NAI is the same as NAS, NAU, NAL, and NAA? I mean, that was the question. Somehow you turned this into a discussion about LASIK.

I didn’t say it was unusual.

Ships registered in Liberia, Panama, Cambodia, and the Marshall Islands are not unusual either, even when they have no other connection to that country.

Flags of convenience have been the primary cause of the erosion of the jobs and wages of professional US Mariners. The “Norwegian” (and Lufthansa, and IAG, and ME3) models of operation are an equal threat to US professional pilot jobs and wages.

There are many other threats to our current status quo as well.

One of your your favorite tactics is to go after guys that complain about the “wrong” Norwegian, which you portray as making their argument invalid. The difference between NAS, NAI, NAU, NAL and NAA is trivial. They are effectively the same company.

Everything that these carriers are doing is currently legal and within the scope of international trade agreements and treaties (maybe not the ME3). Hopefully that will change. I regularly write my congressman and senators. I talk to other pilots about these issues and encourage them to do the same.

Joachim
04-07-2018, 01:46 PM
Well, anyone with a pulse can get hired at the regionals right now. And in the past, anyone with a pulse could get hired at Eastern, TWA, Independence Air, and a host of other defunct airlines.

You've been hauling cargo for AirJapan for around a decade so any 'experience' you have being hired in the US is comically dated. IIRC, you even regaled at how fine an experience your commute from the states is - drinking Courvoisier on your 10+ hour flight to/from your domicile (Gen Lee style on flightinfo where you posted as, fittingly, Dumb Pilot).
From reviewing your 'experience' on flightinfo, you were busy trying to apply to Focus Air Cargo (defunct dirbag operation) at one point, living in MSP (running a side business renting out crashpads). You even stated that when you went to AirJapan, you were a regional pilot, so it's not like you've been hired by a lot of decent US companies. From reading your CV on flightinfo, it sounds like you've been hired by a lot of US bottomfeeders and were too impatient or unqualified to be hired by a reputable US carrier.

Don't pretend that getting hired with a "reputable" carrier in the USA is some great feat of merit. Depending on what carriers you define as being reputable, the process is either highly politicized or not particularly competitive at the moment. Technically, anyone with 1500 hours on a prop job can get in line for that coveted legacy job through flow and preferential hiring programmes. Not everyone desires to apply their decades worth of seniority to start over at an RJ outfit in order to have a reasonable chance of making it to AA,DL, UA. Making it to those destinations is largely based on your luck as far as fitting into whatever bracket HR favors at the moment (Mil-Flow-Female-Black-Gay). For those of us who are just regular mutts and don't have the time or luxury to participate in special interest events there just aren't many slots.

The Legacy game didn't favor me despite my slugging it two legs to RJ reserve while taking my degree while supporting my family. I did all this for a decade only so I could be in a favorable position with them "when the gates were to open". When hiring did start I was in for a rude awakening. A not so particularly talented female student of mine got hired at DL a year after touching her first RJ, Colleagues at competing RJ outfits who settled for inferior contracts were awarded flows in order to attract replacement pilots and keeping wages low.

In the case of LCC's there really isn't much difficulty involved with getting on board. I just wasn't interested in doing the same thing I had been doing for the last ten years on a slightly bigger plane.


Thank god Norwegian came along...

captjns
04-07-2018, 02:22 PM
Flags of convenience have been the primary cause of the erosion of the jobs and wages of professional US Mariners. The “Norwegian” (and Lufthansa, and IAG, and ME3) models of operation are an equal threat to US professional pilot jobs and wages.

Negative....

The airline in your own back yard is your real threat. Outsourcing in the name of codesharing. Why if the airlines could sub service the work out to foreign carriers to save a buck... they would... and who knows someday they will.

T28driver
04-07-2018, 02:38 PM
Negative....

The airline in your own back yard is your real threat. Outsourcing in the name of codesharing. Why if the airlines could sub service the work out to foreign carriers to save a buck... they would... and who knows someday they will.

I completely agree that this is one of many threats facing the US pilot profession. But it’s not the only one.

People love to make this an either/or argument. It’s not. Code sharing and JV agreements are a threat. The low cost foreign carriers are another.

It’s not a question of one being more of a threat than another. They are both threats to our profession. They are not the only threats. I’d be happy to have a discussion on code sharing agreements and outsourcing as well. But that isn’t the focus of this thread.

Edit: One additional thing to consider is that code sharing and joint ventures can be somewhat addressed through scope clauses in contract negotiations. No such remedy exists for combating WOW, Norwegian, and the others that will follow.

Andy
04-07-2018, 06:16 PM
Don't pretend that getting hired with a "reputable" carrier in the USA is some great feat of merit. Depending on what carriers you define as being reputable, the process is either highly politicized or not particularly competitive at the moment. Technically, anyone with 1500 hours on a prop job can get in line for that coveted legacy job through flow and preferential hiring programmes. Not everyone desires to apply their decades worth of seniority to start over at an RJ outfit in order to have a reasonable chance of making it to AA,DL, UA. Making it to those destinations is largely based on your luck as far as fitting into whatever bracket HR favors at the moment (Mil-Flow-Female-Black-Gay). For those of us who are just regular mutts and don't have the time or luxury to participate in special interest events there just aren't many slots.

The Legacy game didn't favor me despite my slugging it two legs to RJ reserve while taking my degree while supporting my family. I did all this for a decade only so I could be in a favorable position with them "when the gates were to open". When hiring did start I was in for a rude awakening. A not so particularly talented female student of mine got hired at DL a year after touching her first RJ, Colleagues at competing RJ outfits who settled for inferior contracts were awarded flows in order to attract replacement pilots and keeping wages low.

In the case of LCC's there really isn't much difficulty involved with getting on board. I just wasn't interested in doing the same thing I had been doing for the last ten years on a slightly bigger plane.


Thank god Norwegian came along...

Well, if you can't get hired at a legacy right now, there are issues in your background and/or you didn't hire an interview consultant to look over your paperwork. Your comment about LCCs is humorous - WTF do you think Norwegian is?

As for The Dominican, whom my post was intended, he had the opportunity to get hired at a legacy in the 90s when one required little more than a pulse. I had 3 legacy interview offers along with one from JetBlue. I went with the first legacy that hired me.

It sounds like you took a paycut to chase the SJS. It will probably end up being a 100% paycut one of these days; losing money hand over fist with mid-70s or higher load factors is problematic. Transatlantic LCCs is nothing new; many have come before and all have failed.

captjns
04-08-2018, 03:34 AM
Norwegians own short haul operation is the third largest low cost carrier in Europe. Combined with EasyJet, Europe's second largest LCC, it is fair to say that they have plenty of feed on the European side. If you look at the focus cities in the US (e.g. FLL, EWR, OAK, IAH, DEN, SEA) it is not hard to see that they are aligning themselves with JB, Spirit, SW,AK, Frontier, et. al.

I’m not aware of any alignments between NAI or LCCs in the US. However, travelers are becoming savvy consumers. With that said with an IPad, Smart Phone, or computer, travelers can access websites to find the lowest fares for onwards travel from their US gateways. I do have to say that there are times that the Legacy Carriers Redeaux have lower fares that their LCC counterparts.

Same is applicable for U.S. pax traveling overseas too.

mainlineAF
04-08-2018, 08:06 AM
Well, anyone with a pulse can get hired at the regionals right now. And in the past, anyone with a pulse could get hired at Eastern, TWA, Independence Air, and a host of other defunct airlines.



You've been hauling cargo for AirJapan for around a decade so any 'experience' you have being hired in the US is comically dated. IIRC, you even regaled at how fine an experience your commute from the states is - drinking Courvoisier on your 10+ hour flight to/from your domicile (Gen Lee style on flightinfo where you posted as, fittingly, Dumb Pilot).

From reviewing your 'experience' on flightinfo, you were busy trying to apply to Focus Air Cargo (defunct dirbag operation) at one point, living in MSP (running a side business renting out crashpads). You even stated that when you went to AirJapan, you were a regional pilot, so it's not like you've been hired by a lot of decent US companies. From reading your CV on flightinfo, it sounds like you've been hired by a lot of US bottomfeeders and were too impatient or unqualified to be hired by a reputable US carrier.



I would post a ‘finish him’ meme but looks like you took care of that [emoji23][emoji23]

Joachim
04-08-2018, 09:35 AM
I’m not aware of any alignments between NAI or LCCs in the US. However, travelers are becoming savvy consumers. With that said with an IPad, Smart Phone, or computer, travelers can access websites to find the lowest fares for onwards travel from their US gateways. I do have to say that there are times that the Legacy Carriers Redeaux have lower fares that their LCC counterparts.

Same is applicable for U.S. pax traveling overseas too.

My comment was based on Kjos public statement that he was seeking a collaborative between B6 and DY. I’m not aware of any definitive plans in regards to that either but the route structure conveniently coincides with that of several LCC hubs and Focus cities. But again, I’m not in the know.

Half wing
04-08-2018, 06:18 PM
Do you refute that flag of convenience schemes were the downfall of the us maritime industry?

If you understand that it was, then you understand why nai is pursuing a loophole that must not be allowed. It’s not just ****ing on pseudo scabs flyingwidebodies for regional wages

Yep! Can’t wait for NAI to go tango uniform.

Half wing
04-08-2018, 06:19 PM
They're taking huge losses, yet still expanding annually by 40% in 2018 and their pilot labor costs are less than half of the US legacy airlines. That's pretty sad if you think about it. Taking away market share from the US legacy airlines and the international routes where the US legacy airline pilots earn the highest wages. NAI under cutting the legacy European airlines too.

It's one thing for companies like uber and lyft to take huge losses in the name of organically growing companies in a new untapped market. But what NAI is doing in an already well established and over saturated market with their cheap labor and undercutting the competition on ticket price is a shame. Essentially NAI is dumping their product into the US market below cost on the backs of under paid pilots.

It's certainly not fair and balanced competition and NAI is much worse for the US airline pilot career than the middle east airlines.

Couldn’t have said it better myself!

Half wing
04-08-2018, 06:22 PM
So you do agree that NAI is the same as NAS, NAU, NAL, and NAA? I mean, that was the question. Somehow you turned this into a discussion about LASIK.

I didn’t say it was unusual.

Ships registered in Liberia, Panama, Cambodia, and the Marshall Islands are not unusual either, even when they have no other connection to that country.

Flags of convenience have been the primary cause of the erosion of the jobs and wages of professional US Mariners. The “Norwegian” (and Lufthansa, and IAG, and ME3) models of operation are an equal threat to US professional pilot jobs and wages.

There are many other threats to our current status quo as well.

One of your your favorite tactics is to go after guys that complain about the “wrong” Norwegian, which you portray as making their argument invalid. The difference between NAS, NAI, NAU, NAL and NAA is trivial. They are effectively the same company.

Everything that these carriers are doing is currently legal and within the scope of international trade agreements and treaties (maybe not the ME3). Hopefully that will change. I regularly write my congressman and senators. I talk to other pilots about these issues and encourage them to do the same.

Thank you, I have written several letters and encouraged others to do the same.

Half wing
04-08-2018, 06:23 PM
Negative....

The airline in your own back yard is your real threat. Outsourcing in the name of codesharing. Why if the airlines could sub service the work out to foreign carriers to save a buck... they would... and who knows someday they will.

We have scope for this threat.:cool:

captjns
04-09-2018, 12:29 AM
We have scope for this threat.:cool:

Yes... Scope mouthwash is great.

Sniper66
04-15-2018, 09:03 PM
Ned.

Nobody differentiates between the different flavors of Norwegian.

Don’t be pedantic.

Would it make you happier if he said Norwegian Air Shuttle? Although they technically don’t have 787’s either (even though they are the parent company), that honor goes to:

Norwegian Air Longhaul

And

Norwegian Air UK

Which are totally different and separate entities from

Norwegian Air International

And

Norwegian Air Argentina

Right?

I recommend we start using NASALIU just so all of the bases are covered.

Thoughts?







Ned is bitter because he could not land a job with a Legacy
Don’t entertain his dislike of all Legacies
There you have the reason why he does that

PS......Mesa ?

Sniper66
04-15-2018, 09:04 PM
Judging by your assertions of the end of the ME3 and the end of everyone’s career if they worked for them..., your 2c’s are in vietnamese Dong:rolleyes:





You should have stay at MSP and keep flying for Mesaba till you got hired by a Legacy
NWA comes to mind
Or they turned you down ?

Sniper66
04-15-2018, 09:07 PM
Well, anyone with a pulse can get hired at the regionals right now. And in the past, anyone with a pulse could get hired at Eastern, TWA, Independence Air, and a host of other defunct airlines.

You've been hauling cargo for AirJapan for around a decade so any 'experience' you have being hired in the US is comically dated. IIRC, you even regaled at how fine an experience your commute from the states is - drinking Courvoisier on your 10+ hour flight to/from your domicile (Gen Lee style on flightinfo where you posted as, fittingly, Dumb Pilot).
From reviewing your 'experience' on flightinfo, you were busy trying to apply to Focus Air Cargo (defunct dirbag operation) at one point, living in MSP (running a side business renting out crashpads). You even stated that when you went to AirJapan, you were a regional pilot, so it's not like you've been hired by a lot of decent US companies. From reading your CV on flightinfo, it sounds like you've been hired by a lot of US bottomfeeders and were too impatient or unqualified to be hired by a reputable US carrier.






Bingo
Thanks Andy

NEDude
04-16-2018, 02:28 AM
Ned is bitter because he could not land a job with a Legacy
Don’t entertain his dislike of all Legacies
There you have the reason why he does that

PS......Mesa ?

Yes, I left Compass and the Delta flow through because I was striving for a U.S. legacy carrier... :rolleyes:

I know it may be hard for you to comprehend, but not all of us got into the industry with a singular goal of flying for a U.S. legacy airline.

captjns
04-16-2018, 05:20 AM
Ned is bitter because he could not land a job with a Legacy
Don’t entertain his dislike of all Legacies
There you have the reason why he does that

PS......Mesa ?

Yawn..... unimaginative cut and paste canned response sprinkled within many threads over the years.

The Dominican
04-16-2018, 05:33 PM
LOL....! Never flew for Mesaba, and I gave up my number at one of your presious "So difficult" to get in today's majors to stay here.., nice try! And yeah, my commute is sweet with award winning meals at one of the top 10 airlines on the planet while I get to keep the miles!

I know you are a bitter bunch but wether you like it or not, I don't take one of those jobs at your presious DAL, UAL because I don't want to...., I have plenty of references from many very senior instructors at both those carriers, I can get an interview whenever I want! I know it is a bitter pill to swallow when somebody rejects what you hold as your life! :rolleyes:

But hey, at least you have a good topic to discuss on your next visit to the shrink.

Sniper66
04-17-2018, 01:33 PM
LOL....! Never flew for Mesaba, and I gave up my number at one of your presious "So difficult" to get in today's majors to stay here.., nice try! And yeah, my commute is sweet with award winning meals at one of the top 10 airlines on the planet while I get to keep the miles!

I know you are a bitter bunch but wether you like it or not, I don't take one of those jobs at your presious DAL, UAL because I don't want to...., I have plenty of references from many very senior instructors at both those carriers, I can get an interview whenever I want! I know it is a bitter pill to swallow when somebody rejects what you hold as your life! :rolleyes:

But hey, at least you have a good topic to discuss on your next visit to the shrink.








You have no chance at Delta and I assume UAL and AA

Keep flying dog **** around the pacific rim and enjoy your commute
But boy any time you see a Delta 330/350 you would wished you were home MSP and work 10 days per month for 275k most likely 3rd compensation pay as a FO

sailingfun
04-19-2018, 07:29 PM
Looks like the wolves are moving in. I guess the question will be what will IAG do with Norwegian.

NEDude
04-19-2018, 11:49 PM
Looks like the wolves are moving in. I guess the question will be what will IAG do with Norwegian.

Could be nothing. They may just be doing what they did to easyJet a few years ago, buy a minority share, hold on to it for six months, then dump it to crash the stock price. They could purchase it and dissolve it, taking the assets but dumping the crew or offering to put them at the bottom of the list of another IAG company like BA as they did with BMI. They could purchase it and operate it as a separate company as they did when the purchased Aer Lingus. Probably some other options as well. It will be interesting to see what happens. Publicly Bjørn Kjuss is saying the stock is undervalued, so he is not willing to entertain offers based on the current stick value. But what he says publicly and what he says privately are likely two very different things.

clnup
04-20-2018, 01:48 PM
Got some friends flying there and if things keep going the way they are now there is nothing to worry about competition wise. The way the company throughs money out the window is unbelievable. It seems management doesn’t care about it at all. Maybe not wanting to make any money is part of the plan?
IAG might be the only way out, the current situation is not sustainable.

Andy
04-20-2018, 02:46 PM
Don’t feed the troll...

Edited; done.

clnup
04-20-2018, 02:52 PM
Don’t feed the troll...

Andy
04-20-2018, 02:52 PM
Looks like the wolves are moving in. I guess the question will be what will IAG do with Norwegian.

Norwegian's CEO has rejected IAG's overtures.

One positive result of IAG's move is that George Soros has been covering his Norwegian Air short at a loss. George Soros made a bet against Norwegian Air ? and lost 40% in a day - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/george-soros-made-a-bet-against-norwegian-air-and-lost-40-in-a-day-2018-4?r=UK&IR=T)

I'd say that Norwegian's long haul experiment is just about dead; they've now shifted 6 787 deliveries to a Chinese lessor. https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2018/04/18/norwegian-air-boeing-787-orders-boc-aviation.html
Perhaps it's an early sale-leaseback, but it wasn't done from a position of strength.

clnup
04-20-2018, 02:53 PM
Got some friends flying there and if things keep going the way they are now there is nothing to worry about competition wise. The way the company throughs money out the window is unbelievable. It seems management doesn’t care about it at all. Maybe not wanting to make any money is part of the plan?
IAG might be the only way out, the current situation is not sustainable.
*throws not troughs ;)

clnup
04-20-2018, 02:56 PM
Interesting! Things could be moving fast!

intrepidcv11
04-23-2018, 07:00 AM
I know you are a bitter bunch but wether you like it or not, I don't take one of those jobs at your presious DAL, UAL because I don't want to...., I have plenty of references from many very senior instructors at both those carriers, I can get an interview whenever I want!

Sure you can.

captjns
04-23-2018, 09:50 AM
Sure you can.

Well... at the end of the day, one doesn’t need to know the secret hand shake to be offered employment with AA DAL UAL etal.;)

NEDude
04-23-2018, 09:50 PM
Well... at the end of the day, one doesn’t need to know the secret hand shake to be offered employment with AA DAL UAL etal.;)

According to the latest APC numbers there are 44,235 pilots employed by the legacy airlines. Add Southwest, FedEx and UPS into the mix and you get 60,809. According to the FAA, at the end of 2017 there were 159,825 active ATP licenses. 38% of all active ATPs are employed by the above named airlines. Were not talking about some super exclusive club here.

B757
04-24-2018, 02:43 AM
You have no chance at Delta and I assume UAL and AA

Keep flying dog **** around the pacific rim and enjoy your commute
But boy any time you see a Delta 330/350 you would wished you were home MSP and work 10 days per month for 275k most likely 3rd compensation pay as a FO

..Sniper, maybe you should go out there yourself and see how a QUALITY airline operates..Choose your days off, and enjoy the business-class ride home and back..

..For some of us, it is not about the money, it is about the quality of life..
..Not everybody wants to work for Delta..

Fly safe,
B757

iflysky
04-24-2018, 09:04 AM
..Sniper, maybe you should go out there yourself and see how a QUALITY airline operates..Choose your days off, and enjoy the business-class ride home and back..

..For some of us, it is not about the money, it is about the quality of life..
..Not everybody wants to work for Delta..

Fly safe,
B757

I'm ex-Air Japan and now work for Delta, so perhaps I can chime in. My time at Air Japan was good and I don't have much negative to say about them. They followed the terms of the contract closely and then some. I met some great people, seen cool things and ate some wild food. However, you were always made aware and constantly reminded that you are a "contractor, temporary foreign labor help" and as such, I always felt that I was there to fly the scraps or the leftovers of what the unionized ANA pilots didn't want. Kinda gave me that "second class citizen" feeing. Yes, business class commute and money were good, but it definitely was not easy dealing with a 14 hour time zone change between US and Japan and then on top of that the flip-flop night/day schedules, with mostly night freighter runs between China and Okinawa. I definitely worked hard to make that buck while constantly battling a jet lag high.

Delta is a completely different environment. A unionized airline where I'm a citizen of my own country flying for my own airline with full rights. I see my family much more, fly better schedules, eat and live healthier, sleep way better and make more money. Yes, this can change overnight and this career is extremely unpredictable, but for now, I'm very happy to have made the move back to US and be working for a legacy.

To each his own, but I assure you, it was not easy to get here and for anyone to say "yes I can get an interview tomorrow at Delta", is completely out of touch with reality. It's a very competitive process and an internal recommendation is just a fraction of the overall hiring process. You have to form part of the Delta mold and that's what they are trying to figure out from your app - if you'll fit in with the corporate culture.

captjns
04-24-2018, 11:28 AM
To each his own, but I assure you, it was not easy to get here and for anyone to say "yes I can get an interview tomorrow at Delta", is completely out of touch with reality. It's a very competitive process and an internal recommendation is just a fraction of the overall hiring process. You have to form part of the Delta mold and that's what they are trying to figure out from your app - if you'll fit in with the corporate culture.

Some may be in agreement and disagree with your opinion that its tough to get an interview at DAL.

I can aver, a number of colleagues Ive flown with, overseas, are currently with DAL. Fit the DAL mold? Heck... all non corned beef on white bread with mayo types. Fun guys and gals to fly with. But then again, its supply and demand. I guess DAL has to... they can fit the preverbal square peg into the round hole.

Some are of the same paradigm about SW, AA, UAL, Fed Ex, UPS. Go figure.

Sniper66
04-26-2018, 11:40 PM
Some may be in agreement and disagree with your opinion that its tough to get an interview at DAL.

I can aver, a number of colleagues Ive flown with, overseas, are currently with DAL. Fit the DAL mold? Heck... all non corned beef on white bread with mayo types. Fun guys and gals to fly with. But then again, its supply and demand. I guess DAL has to... they can fit the preverbal square peg into the round hole.

Some are of the same paradigm about SW, AA, UAL, Fed Ex, UPS. Go figure.






As per DALPA
23 pilots directly from overseas got hired by Delta since 8/2012 out of 4324 new hires.

You do have a chance and I know you can get an interview when ever you want ..sure

Again directly from not the ones stopovers at JB Spirit etc no record kept from them

Andy
04-27-2018, 07:56 AM
As per DALPA
23 pilots directly from overseas got hired by Delta since 8/2012 out of 4324 new hires.

You do have a chance and I know you can get an interview when ever you want ..sure

Again directly from not the ones stopovers at JB Spirit etc no record kept from them

Ashley's now a UAL FO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T-ujzU6vSc

GogglesPisano
04-27-2018, 08:17 AM
Ashley's now a UAL FO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T-ujzU6vSc

From Emirates 777CA to UAL narrowbody FO.

Puts things in perspective doesn't it?

I flew with a newhire on the 717 last year. Came from the right seat of an Emirates 777. He seemed extremely happy with his choice.

captjns
04-27-2018, 08:55 AM
Ashley's now a UAL FO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T-ujzU6vSc

Good for Ashley. Her upgrade may not be in the too distant future with retirements, and expansion.

Andy
04-28-2018, 08:30 AM
For those curious about Norwegian's finances, here are links to Norwegian's first quarter results and presentation.

https://www.norwegian.com/globalassets/documents/interim/norwegian-q1-2018-report.pdf

https://www.norwegian.com/globalassets/documents/interim/norwegian-q1-2018-presentation.pdf

sailingfun
04-29-2018, 04:10 AM
For those curious about Norwegian's finances, here are links to Norwegian's first quarter results and presentation.

https://www.norwegian.com/globalassets/documents/interim/norwegian-q1-2018-report.pdf

https://www.norwegian.com/globalassets/documents/interim/norwegian-q1-2018-presentation.pdf

Those are terrible numbers no matter how you spin it.

NEDude
04-29-2018, 08:10 AM
Those are terrible numbers no matter how you spin it.

Nope. Clearly not looking good. They bit off a lot more than they can chew.

The lack of first freedom rights over Russia has destroyed a lot of their long term plans. Many of the aircraft were planned for Asian destinations that have yet to materialize. Given the current political climate between Europe and Russia, it is doubtful those first freedom rights will be granted any time soon.

Sniper66
04-29-2018, 10:35 PM
Ashley's now a UAL FO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T-ujzU6vSc






One more at United
How many United hired Andy ?

Andy
04-30-2018, 04:56 AM
One more at United
How many United hired Andy ?

I don't know what United's hiring numbers are - I looked around the website and couldn't find any official data.

Andy
04-30-2018, 07:10 AM
Nope. Clearly not looking good. They bit off a lot more than they can chew.

The lack of first freedom rights over Russia has destroyed a lot of their long term plans. Many of the aircraft were planned for Asian destinations that have yet to materialize. Given the current political climate between Europe and Russia, it is doubtful those first freedom rights will be granted any time soon.

Well, they're selling everything to keep from breaching bond covenants. They won't make it through this winter unless they find a whole lot of new investment capital. Which will be promptly sent to money heaven and only delay Norwegian's death.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/norwegian-airs-disruptive-days-look-numbered-1524752428

Next up in the discount TATL capital destruction game: WoW Air. https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/2018/04/27/wow-air-mulls-stake-sale-buoyed-by-interest-in-rival-norwegian
I love this quote: “The interest in Norwegian creates more awareness and really validates what we are trying to do, that low-cost, long-haul is here to say,” he said. ... he is WoW's CEO.
No, Mr Morgenson, it merely continues to prove that the quickest method of airline bankruptcy is flying discount international routes. Freddie Laker proved it long ago and this has been proven time and again by flash in the pan discount international carriers that no one remembers.

The most telling part of the article is at the end: Mogensen said he doesn’t expect Ryanair Holdings Plc to bid for Norwegian, adding that while Europe’s biggest discount carrier could integrate the short-haul operation, its CEO Michael O’Leary probably isn’t ready to commit to trans-Atlantic flights. ... if Ryanair isn't willing to play the discount TATL capital destruction game, it's probably not a game that any discount carrier can survive.

Flytolive
04-30-2018, 03:38 PM
Norwegian had a -31% operating margin in Q1 2018. Yikes!


Norwegian to divest itself of 140 aircraft
27APR2018

Norwegian (DY, Oslo Gardermoen) is in the process of divesting itself of up to 140 aircraft. In a 1Q18 earnings disclosure, the Scandninavian low-cost carrier said the divestiture would include future aircraft deliveries, the disposal of older aircraft, and either the sale or spinning off of excess aircraft into leasing structures.

CEO Bjorn Kjos did not elaborate on which deliveries would be affected but it is recalled that Norwegian has already switched six B787-9s on order from Boeing (BOE, Chicago O'Hare) out to BOC Aviation. In addition, five A320neo scheduled to be delivered in 2018, will be leased to HK Express (UO, Hong Kong Int'l).

With these changes, during FY 2018, Norwegian will add two new B737-800s, eleven new B787-9s, and twelve B737 MAX to its fleet this year against the previously anticipated two B737-800s, twelve B737 MAX, five B787-9s, and four A320neo.

The ch-aviation fleets module indicates that, inclusive of its various AOCs, Norwegian operates: fifty-two B737-800s, eight B787-8s, and ten B787-9s at its Norwegian unit; one B737-800 at its Norwegian Air Argentina unit (to be transferred to Europe until its South American launch later this year); sixty-four B737-800s and six B737 MAX 8s at its Norwegian Air International unit; and one B737-800 and fourteen B787-9s at its Norwegian UK unit.

Concerning IAG International Airlines Group's interest in Norwegian, Kjos said the Board of Directors had established a steering committee and engaged financial and judicial advisors "to review the situation, handle relevant inquiries and to safeguard the interests of all shareholders."

Norwegian said it had "received several inquiries" following IAG's announcement of its acquisition of a 4.6% stake in the airline.

trip
04-30-2018, 06:28 PM
So what is the crux of the problem, empty seats, cheap seats, or poor financial terms/leases on aircraft?

Andy
04-30-2018, 07:16 PM
So what is the crux of the problem, empty seats, cheap seats, or poor financial terms/leases on aircraft?

Cheap seats and very poor execution.
Their load factors are very good (>80%) but they've priced their seats below cost.
Their execution has been pretty bad. A lot of flight delays and equipment substitutions (esubs due to 787 engine issues). Here's an article on a Norwegian delay; there are quite a few others out there that read similar. https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/6146437/norwegian-flight-cancelled-stranded-buenos-aires-airport/

dera
05-01-2018, 06:38 PM
The cost to risk ratio in long haul EU-based travel is not favorable for low cost carriers. Sell the seat for €99 but pay €600 if you cannot fly in EU261 compensation.
With a new growing fleet with a lot of growth pains, that eats in to your margins quickly. Norwegian is growing a real "bomb" at the moment by refusing to pay those compensations, and that's a liability that's not - as far as I can read - fully listed in their numbers.

NEDude
05-02-2018, 02:44 AM
Norwegian announces increased LGW-JFK frequency, now 3x daily on six days of the week, and increase in Scandinavia to BKK frequency from 9x weekly to 14x weekly.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/norwegian-airlines/norwegian-air-increases-frequency-of-flights-to-new-york-and-bangkok-idUKL8N1S926L

Flytolive
05-02-2018, 05:56 AM
Norwegian Air’s Disruptive Days Look Numbered
The latest company to champion low-cost trans-Atlantic flights either needs to rein in its ambition or sell out

April 26, 2018 10:20 a.m. ET

Cheap trans-Atlantic flights may become harder to come by, whether or not Norwegian Air Shuttle NAS -0.46% gets taken over.

Norwegian shares took flight Thursday after the company said, alongside its first-quarter results, that it had “received several inquiries” following IAG’s expression of interest.

The parent company of British Airways ICAGY 1.20% announced earlier in April that it had bought a 4.6% stake in the trans-Atlantic disrupter, with a view to exploring an offer. Norwegian has established a steering committee and hired advisers to review the situation.

Norwegian also said it would sell up to 140 aircraft. Although this figure amounts to the vast majority of its current fleet, the company expects to take delivery of a further 60 aircraft in 2019 and 2020 and will likely lease back enough of the planes it sells not to disrupt operations. Crucially, however, disposals release cash.

The airline has grown rapidly by piling on debt to buy new jets and offering cheap trans-Atlantic flights. But now it desperately needs to shore up its balance sheet. Even after a roughly $165 million private placement in March, Norwegian finished the first quarter with just $260 million of equity, supporting total assets of $6.3 billion. If equity falls below roughly $190 million, the company is in breach of its bond covenants.

Selling planes eases the pain, but the only long-term cure is to improve margins. Rising fuel prices are a headwind. The company’s first-quarter unit costs fell 2% on the year, but only because of the weak dollar: At constant currencies, they would have risen. Norwegian’s focus on new, fuel-efficient planes should eventually put it at a competitive advantage if fuel costs continue to rise—but only if it survives the short-term margin squeeze.

Little wonder vultures are circling. German flag-carrier Lufthansa and low-cost leader Ryanair also have the heft to contemplate buying Norwegian, even if IAG is probably the most natural acquirer, given its experience with Iberia and Aer Lingus, and holding company structure.

One question concerns antitrust scrutiny: Adding Norwegian’s base at London Gatwick Airport to IAG’s home at Heathrow could be seen as an attempt to quell competition on the busy and lucrative London-New York route.

However this plays out, Norwegian looks set to be a less disruptive force.

Write to Stephen Wilmot at [email protected]

Andy
05-02-2018, 01:27 PM
Norwegian announces increased LGW-JFK frequency, now 3x daily on six days of the week, and increase in Scandinavia to BKK frequency from 9x weekly to 14x weekly.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/norwegian-airlines/norwegian-air-increases-frequency-of-flights-to-new-york-and-bangkok-idUKL8N1S926L

LGW-JFK is a shot at IAG. I expect British Airways to cut London to New York ticket prices this summer in response and the same done on every other route that IAG overlaps with Norwegian.

Andy
05-02-2018, 01:40 PM
The airline has grown rapidly by piling on debt to buy new jets and offering cheap trans-Atlantic flights. But now it desperately needs to shore up its balance sheet. Even after a roughly $165 million private placement in March, Norwegian finished the first quarter with just $260 million of equity, supporting total assets of $6.3 billion. If equity falls below roughly $190 million, the company is in breach of its bond covenants.

Those numbers can be found:

On page 6, fourth paragraph:
https://www.norwegian.com/globalassets/documents/interim/norwegian-q1-2018-report.pdf
Equity at the end of the first quarter was NOK 2,070 million compared to NOK 2,098 million at the end of last year.

For bond covenants, on page 19:
https://www.norwegian.com/globalassets/ip/media/about-us/company/investor-relations/norwegian---bond-presentation-january-2018.pdf
Covenants: ‒ Minimum equity (NOK 1,500 mill)
‒ Minimum liquidity (NOK 500 mill)
‒ Dividend payments less than 35% of net profit



1 USD ~8.1 NOK (Norwegian Krone)

The problem that Norwegian has with selling assets is that if they're selling them for less than they're valued on Norwegian's books, that reduces Norwegian's equity. The way to increase equity is to do a secondary stock offering. Norwegian's already done two private placement stock offerings this year - offering current shareholders the opportunity to buy more shares of stock. That gave Norwegian enough equity to get through Q1, but they'll need to do another secondary offering to keep from breaching bond covenants.

clnup
05-02-2018, 02:44 PM
More trouble coming soon. FAA/EASA have issued ADs for the Rolls Royce engines, making some planes non ETOPS. Some planes could be grounded for engine changes (no spares available).
New trouble lands on Norwegian?s fleet (http://www.newsinenglish.no/2018/04/16/new-problems-land-on-norwegians-fleet/)

On the good side the spanish and italian pilots have signed a cla.
Norwegian and Spanish pilot union SEPLA sign collective agreement - Aviation24.be (http://www.aviation24.be/airlines/norwegian-air-shuttle/norwegian-spanish-pilot-union-sepla-sign-collective-agreement/)

The Dominican
05-05-2018, 11:08 AM
You folks know that they have several companies looking into investing and not just IAG right? :rolleyes:

Andy
05-05-2018, 12:20 PM
You folks know that they have several companies looking into investing and not just IAG right? :rolleyes:

... according to Norwegian's CEO. And the Norwegian CEO never stated that others are looking at investing in Norwegian, merely that other airlines have shown interest in Norwegian. He coyly avoided stated if they were just looking to buy assets or invest in the airline.

Meanwhile, Ryanair's CEO stated months ago that it's no secret in the aviation community that Norwegian is in financial trouble. Ryanair CEO claims Norwegian is running out of cash and ?will not survive the winter? - Business Insider Nordic (http://nordic.businessinsider.com/ryanair-ceo-claims-norwegian-is-running-out-of-cash-and-will-not-survive-the-winter-2017-9/)
Note that Monarch did, in fact, go out of business.

Willy Walsh is probably just playing games with Kjos - tying Kjos's hands to make it difficult to do another secondary stock offering which Norwegian desperately needs to do to prevent breaching bond covenants.

Joachim
05-06-2018, 12:43 AM
More trouble coming soon. FAA/EASA have issued ADs for the Rolls Royce engines, making some planes non ETOPS. Some planes could be grounded for engine changes (no spares available).
New trouble lands on Norwegian?s fleet (http://www.newsinenglish.no/2018/04/16/new-problems-land-on-norwegians-fleet/)

On the good side the spanish and italian pilots have signed a cla.
Norwegian and Spanish pilot union SEPLA sign collective agreement - Aviation24.be (http://www.aviation24.be/airlines/norwegian-air-shuttle/norwegian-spanish-pilot-union-sepla-sign-collective-agreement/)

A reduction in ETOPS does not mean grounded. It adds about 1.5 hours to a transatlantic flight. No one seems to know what financial agreement has been reached with RR on this. I’m sure they at least carry part of the burden.

Flytolive
05-07-2018, 08:21 AM
Fuel up again today. Bad for airlines in general, but especially for Norwegian. More cash they can't afford to burn.

Joachim
05-07-2018, 08:30 AM
Fuel up again today. Bad for airlines in general, but especially for Norwegian. More cash they can't afford to burn.

That post says more about you than it does Norwegian.

WHACKMASTER
05-07-2018, 08:55 AM
That post says more about you than it does Norwegian.

What are you expecting us to cheer your company on? GMAFB. Did you expect anything different when you took the job?

NEDude
05-07-2018, 09:44 AM
What are you expecting us to cheer your company on? GMAFB. Did you expect anything different when you took the job?

I guess it is time for your reminder again:

Hypocrite | Define Hypocrite at Dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/hypocrite?s=t)

Let me highlight number 2 for you-

a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude (e.g."Undercutting industry standard pay and working conditions is a bad thing and nobody should do it, no excuses.") , especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements (e.g. "I took a job at a bottom feeder company and my pay and benefits were directly responsible for cutting pay and working conditions at a legacy airline. But I had no other opportunities so it was okay for me to do that").

GogglesPisano
05-07-2018, 09:48 AM
That post says more about you than it does Norwegian.

Why? He's simply stating a fact. Not rejoicing.

Andy
05-07-2018, 09:48 AM
Norwegian's April traffic numbers are out today. Not pretty.

https://www.norwegian.com/globalassets/documents/traffic-figures/traffic-figures-april-2018.pdf

-20% RASK (metric equivalent of RASM)
-16% yield

Some of that's due to longer stage lengths but those numbers are not good.

Load factor -3.6%

captjns
05-07-2018, 12:03 PM
Fuel up again today. Bad for airlines in general, but especially for Norwegian. More cash they can't afford to burn.

For the airlines??? Nah. They’ll survive for the most part. With an average of 14,000+ crewmembers on the properties of the big 3? History since the beginning of the airlines hiring, and furloughing as in the past has a habit of repeating itself.

sailingfun
05-07-2018, 12:18 PM
For the airlines??? Nah. They’ll survive for the most part. With an average of 14,000+ crewmembers on the properties of the big 3? History since the beginning of the airlines hiring, and furloughing as in the past has a habit of repeating itself.

With the number of retirements, changes in FAA training requirements and contractual changes that allow wide swings in monthly hours and line construction it’s pretty unlikely the big 4 will see furloughs.

captjns
05-07-2018, 12:22 PM
With the number of retirements, changes in FAA training requirements and contractual changes that allow wide swings in monthly hours and line construction it’s pretty unlikely the big 4 will see furloughs.

Your statement may be valid, provided he airlines continue to maintain their current schedules and available capacity. However, the ‘70s and post 9/11 proved differently.

As in the past, and present, and foreseeable future, expat opportunities have and will continue to afford pilots an alternative outlet to maintain their current life styles.

sailingfun
05-07-2018, 03:18 PM
Your statement may be valid, provided he airlines continue to maintain their current schedules and available capacity. However, the ‘70s and post 9/11 proved differently.

As in the past, and present, and foreseeable future, expat opportunities have and will continue to afford pilots an alternative outlet to maintain their current life styles.

The contracts were quite different in the seventies. Management now has wide latitude in how they build monthly lines. At Delta as a example line construction can vary from 65 to 92.5 hours. Years ago it was a fixed value. The contracts also carry layered financial penalties for furloughing not subject to Force Majure. Delta carried a 600 pilot surplus for several years after the 2009 financial meltdown. Cost more to furlough.

Flytolive
05-07-2018, 07:35 PM
Fuel up again today. Bad for airlines in general, but especially for Norwegian. More cash they can't afford to burn.That post says more about you than it does Norwegian.Really? What does it say about me?

I remember Independence Air guys not liking it either when it was pointed out that $.24 CASM and $.14 RASM was unsustainable. Norwegian's -31% Q1 operating margin isn't either.

But at least they are going to have 100% of their short haul flying 'electric' by 2040.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/18/norway-aims-for-all-short-haul-flights-to-be-100-electric-by-2040

Maybe they mean 100% of the ones they own by then.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/66650-norwegian-to-divest-itself-of-140-aircraft

dera
05-09-2018, 01:59 AM
But at least they are going to have 100% of their short haul flying 'electric' by 2040.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/18/norway-aims-for-all-short-haul-flights-to-be-100-electric-by-2040

Maybe they mean 100% of the ones they own by then.

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/66650-norwegian-to-divest-itself-of-140-aircraft

With 0 flights, it's easy to complete them all using electric planes.