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View Full Version : Skywest as first regional choice


Pilatus801
03-25-2018, 07:06 PM
Hello,

I hope to get some candid feedback from some Skywest pilots. I am in my commercial flight training and would consider Skywest as my first choice of regionals. I live in SLC and would like to stay here and base here. I would also consider a base of Boise as i have a place to stay there too.

A few questions, how is life at Skywest for a new hire? How long would a new pilot be on reserve typically? Are Salt lake and Boise likely starting bases for new hire FOs?

And finally, what is a realistic annual income for a FO, the first two years? From my research it seems a lot of the other regionals are more generous in pay or bonuses....and i wonder if that is keeping some people from coming to Skywest.

Thanks for your comments.


CaptSwift
03-25-2018, 07:15 PM
Go here and click on the seniority tab. Thatís Will answer your time frame and where questions. http://www.skywest.com/skywest-airline-jobs/career-guides/flight-jobs/?utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=pilot%20jobs&utm_content=pilot%20recruiting&utm_campaign=pilot%20recruiting&gclid=Cj0KCQjwkd3VBRDzARIsAAdGzMAAHv5Su_pOqVGDcewQ QTZnco5cPonakNBPB-z_Y_NfbslbXXWcpLgaAszTEALw_wcB#/career-guide

Boise is relatively junior but itís not likely youíll get it in my opinion. You have a lot of FOs in ORD that want westbound.. a lot in front of you. What other airlines are options for you for commuting out of SLC? Youíll be commuting If you want to stay.

zondaracer
03-25-2018, 08:00 PM
I am in my commercial flight training and would consider Skywest as my first choice of regionals.

You are probably close to two years from getting your time to come to the regionals. Maybe more, maybe less. A lot will change in that time. Focus on training and getting your time. By the time you are close to interviewing, take another look. The regionals will look different. Right now, SkyWest is a good place to be. When I got hired, pay was $24 an hour and that was on par with everyone else. Then pay went up to $30, then $36.50, all in my first year. In my first three years, they closed the SBP domicile, and they opened DTW, BOI, SAN, ATL, LGA.

Anyhow, pay can vary wildly. I was talking with a friend from new hire class and we had a $20,000 difference in gross pay (second year), mainly because he didn't work as hard/work the system as much as me. Pay can vary wildly depending on reserve or lineholder, domicile, equipment, and how much you pick up trips and trade, etc.

First two years combined, you could make as low as $60,000 gross or as much as $110,000 at current rates.


domino
03-25-2018, 10:04 PM
As Zondracer said, things will be different in two or three years. Hopefully you can avoid the dog and pony show regionals altogether and go to somewhere like spirit, JetBlue or even southwest right off the get go on your way to a major. But depending on how bad the next recession is and how many wars we start, it will be a different landscape.

hawk21
03-26-2018, 01:11 PM
Hopefully you can avoid the dog and pony show regionals altogether and go to somewhere like spirit, JetBlue or even southwest right off the get go on your way to a major.

What? Why would you get a newbieís hopes up like that? This is so incredibly unrealistic.

flysooner9
03-26-2018, 01:15 PM
What? Why would you get a newbieís hopes up like that? This is so incredibly unrealistic.

Southwest yes unrealistic. Any of the LCCís very possible in a few years. Considering I doubt regionals hardly exist in 3 years.

rickair7777
03-26-2018, 02:13 PM
What? Why would you get a newbieís hopes up like that? This is so incredibly unrealistic.

Southwest yes unrealistic. Any of the LCCís very possible in a few years. Considering I doubt regionals hardly exist in 3 years.

I would say ULCC's may well be hiring CFI's in three years. That will be the end of any regional which does not have a very solid flow program.

Flymeaway
03-27-2018, 08:28 AM
I agree, if you are still under 250 hours, there will be a lot of changes in the industry before you're eligible for an ATP.

SLC is OO's most senior base easily. If I had to predict anything 3 years out, it's that SLC will still be very senior. Pretty sure we're the only show in town there, and lots of folks here want to be there. Some new FOs volunteer to be ground school instructors on the CRJ to get there fast, so that's a possibility for you. You give up most of your flying/career progression though.

BOI isn't too long of a wait on the ERJ side right now, but it's anyone's guess what that'll be like in 2+ years. You'll have to wait and see.

I'm not sure how senior SLC is for Delta, but if I were you, I'd reconcile myself to commuting for 10+ years if you want to live in SLC and move past FO at SkyWest. FO pay right now is mid 30s. As someone else said, if you are willing to give up a lot of your days off and try to work the system, you can make a bit more. Of course, in 2 years, pay throughout the regional industry is likely to be very different than it is today.

hawk21
03-27-2018, 09:21 AM
Southwest yes unrealistic. Any of the LCCís very possible in a few years. Considering I doubt regionals hardly exist in 3 years.

Regionals will still exist in 3 years.

flysooner9
03-27-2018, 09:42 AM
Regionals will still exist in 3 years.

I bet thereís less then half the amount we currently have.

hawk21
03-27-2018, 11:02 AM
I bet thereís less then half the amount we currently have.

I don't disagree with that statement.

Truthanator
03-27-2018, 11:16 AM
I bet thereís less then half the amount we currently have.

https://media.giphy.com/media/f3aznQ12GobF6/giphy.gif

flysooner9
03-27-2018, 01:19 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/f3aznQ12GobF6/giphy.gif

Donít agree? How do you figure regionals maintain staffing once the big time retirements start at the majors?

Fixnem2Flyinem
03-27-2018, 01:31 PM
Donít agree? How do you figure regionals maintain staffing once the big time retirements start at the majors?

Age 67, rolling back the 1500 hour requirement, bringing in Australian or European pilots (OO already does that with aussies). One way or another I can see a few more attempts to kick the can down the road. Donít forget about the next recession right around the corner, that will help keep the regionals afloat Iím sure

Pilatus801
03-27-2018, 01:44 PM
I know i have seen the forecast somewhere, but when are the biggest numbers of retiring pilots hitting? Can someone refresh my memory??

Excargodog
03-27-2018, 01:49 PM
I know i have seen the forecast somewhere, but when are the biggest numbers of retiring pilots hitting? Can someone refresh my memory??

Varies by airline but overall peaks about four or five years from now IIRC. But it will be above historical averages from now until sometime after 2030.

hawk21
03-27-2018, 04:56 PM
I know i have seen the forecast somewhere, but when are the biggest numbers of retiring pilots hitting? Can someone refresh my memory??

United peaks around 2021-2022 the last retirement forecast I saw.

Excargodog
03-27-2018, 05:01 PM
United peaks around 2021-2022 the last retirement forecast I saw.

For Delta it’s 2022 and for American 2023. But both will be having retirements at a higher rate than they currently are through 2030, Delta through 2035.

BarrySeal
03-27-2018, 06:56 PM
For Delta itís 2022 and for American 2023. But both will be having retirements at a higher rate than they currently are through 2030, Delta through 2035.

Is the hiring going to slow down in those peak years ? In other words, are they hiring TODAY to plan for the future, or are they hiring TODAY because they need bodies TODAY/NOW.

flysooner9
03-27-2018, 07:00 PM
Theyíre hiring now for current retirements and some growth.

Excargodog
03-27-2018, 07:39 PM
Is the hiring going to slow down in those peak years ? In other words, are they hiring TODAY to plan for the future, or are they hiring TODAY because they need bodies TODAY/NOW.

They are not going to freeze-dry these guys. They are hiring now because of retirements but also because of an increase in seat miles being flown and aircraft on order. Predictions are always written in smoke, but Boeing is predicting a need for 117,000 additional airline pilots in North America alone between now and 2035, a number that would overwhelm the number of pilots currently working in ALL regionals as well as current military training numbers:

Boeing Global Services Forecasts 1.2 Million Pilots and Technicians Needed by 2036 - Jul 24, 2017 (http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2017-07-24-Boeing-Global-Services-Forecasts-1-2-Million-Pilots-and-Technicians-Needed-by-2036)

Will any of this really happen or will it be derailed by a recession/depression/war/famine/terrorist attack/catastrophic meteor strike extinction event? Who knows.

But the trend is your friend to a degree not seen since the immediate post WWII era. that's about all anyone can say. There really are NEVER any guarantees....

word302
03-27-2018, 07:55 PM
They are not going to freeze-dry these guys. They are hiring now because of retirements but also because of an increase in seat miles being flown and aircraft on order. Predictions are always written in smoke, but Boeing is predicting a need for 117,000 additional airline pilots in North America alone between now and 2035, a number that would overwhelm the number of pilots currently working in ALL regionals as well as current military training numbers:

Boeing Global Services Forecasts 1.2 Million Pilots and Technicians Needed by 2036 - Jul 24, 2017 (http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2017-07-24-Boeing-Global-Services-Forecasts-1-2-Million-Pilots-and-Technicians-Needed-by-2036)

Will any of this really happen or will it be derailed by a recession/depression/war/famine/terrorist attack/catastrophic meteor strike extinction event? Who knows.

But the trend is your friend to a degree not seen since the immediate post WWII era. that's about all anyone can say. There really are NEVER any guarantees....

That number from Boeing is silly.

Excargodog
03-27-2018, 09:48 PM
That number from Boeing is silly.

Could be. But United saw an increase of four percent year over year:

United Reports July 2017 Operational Performance - Aug 8, 2017 (http://newsroom.united.com/2017-08-08-United-Reports-July-2017-Operational-Performance)

If US airlines simply increase passenger miles by 4% per year from now until 2035, assuming the average aircraft size gets no bigger, that would translate into a doubling of the need for pilots in the legacy majors from the number currently employed, and the United CEO is saying they are going to increase their year over year growth by 6% although that admittedly needs to be seen. Since the A380 and passenger 747-8 experience of huge passenger haulers doesn't seem to be doing real well, I'm guessing that increases in passengers per aircraft are going to be modest. In fact, if the E-jet E2s become the low end aircraft at the majors flown by major crews, the average might even come down, at least domestically.

On the LCC side, Jet Blue is expecting 6.5-8% year over year growth, while Spirit is currently looking at 14.8% year over year growth in passenger miles. While it is doubtful these numbers are sustainable over the long haul, even if they were only 2% that would still create a demand for pilots several times greater than all the pilots currently in the regional fleets even if all military fixed wing pilots trained in that period left the service as soon as their training-related active duty service commitment was up.

So yeah, Boeing may be exaggerating, they sell aircraft for a living after all, and no one can predict economic downturns or disasters, but it would be difficult to deny that the environment for pilot progression from the regionals to the majors isn't as bright as its been in our lifetimes. You don't have to be a Pollyanna to have a hopeful outlook.

Pilatus801
03-28-2018, 07:16 AM
That number from Boeing is silly.

Why do you believe the number is silly? I guess if you consider positive economic growth, both domestically and internationally, population growth, expansion of travel, airports and airline fleets....then why is the number silly?

And i get that Boeing may have somewhat of a conflict of interest, but i assume that with pending heavy retirements and travel boom and growth of airlines worldwide, i can see how there is a growing pilot shortage. Furthermore, the 1,500 rule and cost of training has impeded a lot of pilots looking at the career. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some rule change of the 1,500 hours and even sweeter financial offers from airline operators as the squeeze gets tighter.

word302
03-28-2018, 10:44 AM
Why do you believe the number is silly? I guess if you consider positive economic growth, both domestically and internationally, population growth, expansion of travel, airports and airline fleets....then why is the number silly?

And i get that Boeing may have somewhat of a conflict of interest, but i assume that with pending heavy retirements and travel boom and growth of airlines worldwide, i can see how there is a growing pilot shortage. Furthermore, the 1,500 rule and cost of training has impeded a lot of pilots looking at the career. I wouldn't be surprised if there is some rule change of the 1,500 hours and even sweeter financial offers from airline operators as the squeeze gets tighter.

Um....math? 117,000 pilots over the next 17 years is 6882 pilots EVERY YEAR for 17 years straight. Thatís the entire regional force replaced every 2 years. Scratching your head yet?

Pilatus801
03-28-2018, 10:58 AM
Um....math? 117,000 pilots over the next 17 years is 6882 pilots EVERY YEAR for 17 years straight. Thatís the entire regional force replaced every 2 years. Scratching your head yet?
I don't believe it's that simple. I'm just asking questions here; currently I wonder what the total number of active pilots is in North America.... Which should include all Aviation, majors, regional, cargo, commuter, corporate, etc. because if there are 50,000 active and employed pilots currently, adding another 6 to 7, 000 per year is not entirely radical. If anyone knows the actual numbers please share. I went to the Boeing article but didn't see current pilot figures.

Check Complete
03-28-2018, 11:23 AM
I don't know how many will be needed per year but when you think of just more than just retirements and factor in growth, it seems feasible the number could be in the 6K range per year. Great Lakes just closed their doors, and solely attributed it to the lack of pilots, this would have been unheard of 7 to 10 years ago. (hoping all you great lakers quickly land on your feet)

But for today the regionals are going to have to up their game just to stay in business. Right now SkyWest is so behind the curve, i just don't know if the recovery can happen. This could be start of demise. A new pilot came up to me today just to say goodbye, said Friday was his last day. Of course I asked him where he was going, expecting to hear Delta, SouthWest, etc. He said he was going back to developing some type of software, getting out of aviation, but maybe not forever? But at least for the next few years. Said the new change in reserve rules was too much to handle, the terrible pay and zero QOL were not worth it to be at SkyWest. He asked if I knew so and so, I did, and he said that guy was leaving for the same reason.

The reserve rules changed recently at SkyWest, that basically took what is an absolutely terrible QOL and and made it far worse. A new idea for reserve notification was approved and the company saw the grand canyon size loop hole in the wording and jumped on it to the complete and sole benefit of the company. The company is doing nothing, they love it.

I just can't believe people still apply here?

Pilatus801
03-28-2018, 11:27 AM
Um....math? 117,000 pilots over the next 17 years is 6882 pilots EVERY YEAR for 17 years straight. That’s the entire regional force replaced every 2 years. Scratching your head yet?

I just went into the airline profiles on APC and grabbed the pilot numbers for all the US majors, Legacy, Regionals and the larger Cargo operators.

Total number of pilots just from those groups is 91,572. And, that is leaving out fractionals, charters and many other aviation providers. So the Boeing projections of 6,877 per year is likely an accurate forecast. I would tend to believe that Boeing put a lot of detailed research and computing to arrive at their numbers, rather than just shooting from the hip.

Pilatus801
03-28-2018, 11:30 AM
I don't know how many will be needed per year but when you think of just more than just retirements and factor in growth, it seems feasible the number could be in the 6K range per year. Great Lakes just closed their doors, and solely attributed it to the lack of pilots, this would have been unheard of 7 to 10 years ago. (hoping all you great lakers quickly land on your feet)

But for today the regionals are going to have to up their game just to stay in business. Right now SkyWest is so behind the curve, i just don't know if the recovery can happen. This could be start of demise. A new pilot came up to me today just to say goodbye, said Friday was his last day. Of course I asked him where he was going, expecting to hear Delta, SouthWest, etc. He said he was going back to developing some type of software, getting out of aviation, but maybe not forever? But at least for the next few years. Said the new change in reserve rules was too much to handle, the terrible pay and zero QOL were not worth it to be at SkyWest. He asked if I knew so and so, I did, and he said that guy was leaving for the same reason.

The reserve rules changed recently at SkyWest, that basically took what is an absolutely terrible QOL and and made it far worse. A new idea for reserve notification was approved and the company saw the grand canyon size loop hole in the wording and jumped on it to the complete and sole benefit of the company. The company is doing nothing, they love it.

I just can't believe people still apply here?

Well this is demoralizing to hear. This type of information has fueled my concern of whether or not to move forward in flight training. I consider aviation to be a highly skilled career and yet new entry pilots, after investing so much are given poor QOL and very low pay. Unless this changes and airlines start treating their aviation professionals like professionals, i think plenty of viable candidates are staying away and pursuing other careers. I am still on the fence. I guess i am crossing my fingers that these companies will step up and pay living wages to their professional pilots. Even on day 1. I know my wish will likely not come true.

FollowMe
03-28-2018, 12:22 PM
I just went into the airline profiles on APC and grabbed the pilot numbers for all the US majors, Legacy, Regionals and the larger Cargo operators.

Total number of pilots just from those groups is 91,572. And, that is leaving out fractionals, charters and many other aviation providers. So the Boeing projections of 6,877 per year is likely an accurate forecast. I would tend to believe that Boeing put a lot of detailed research and computing to arrive at their numbers, rather than just shooting from the hip.

According to the age study put together by Delta a couple years back there were ~86,000 pilots between the Major/Cargo/Regional carriers in North America. of those 57,258 will reach mandatory retirement in the next 20 years. So outside of the retirements Boeing is predicting an expansion of 60,000 pilots. That's more than DL/UA/AA/WN employ today combined. Is it possible? Sure, certainly the industry has plans to grow. But that scale sounds more like what Boeing wants to happen than a solid forecast of what will happen.

flysooner9
03-28-2018, 02:11 PM
According to the age study put together by Delta a couple years back there were ~86,000 pilots between the Major/Cargo/Regional carriers in North America. of those 57,258 will reach mandatory retirement in the next 20 years. So outside of the retirements Boeing is predicting an expansion of 60,000 pilots. That's more than DL/UA/AA/WN employ today combined. Is it possible? Sure, certainly the industry has plans to grow. But that scale sounds more like what Boeing wants to happen than a solid forecast of what will happen.


Pretty sure those numbers being thrown out by boeing is WORLDWIDE. Which if thats the case the 60,000 isn't that far fetched for growth. Airline growth in asia and the middle east is going insane right now.

ghann001
03-28-2018, 05:34 PM
Stay away from Skywest. Go to an airline with a flow through. Why would you come to a regional that ranks as number 13 in-terms of pay. KSLC is our most senior domicile. You will commute anyways. Go to endeavor get 30% more pay and a Delta interview. Or compass and commute to lax. Go to MESA and get a united interview for godís sake. Whatever you do. Donít come here. This is not a good company no more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pilatus801
03-28-2018, 07:03 PM
Pretty sure those numbers being thrown out by boeing is WORLDWIDE. Which if thats the case the 60,000 isn't that far fetched for growth. Airline growth in asia and the middle east is going insane right now.

The Boeing forecast was 117,000 pilots over the next 20 years just for North America. The forecast worldwide was over 630,000 with the largest forecast for Asia/Pacific at 253,000 for the same 20 year period.

Excargodog
03-29-2018, 08:03 AM
The Boeing forecast was 117,000 pilots over the next 20 years just for North America. The forecast worldwide was over 630,000 with the largest forecast for Asia/Pacific at 253,000 for the same 20 year period.

And whilst there might be an element of wishful thinking in that, Boeing selling airplanes for a living after all, it actually doesn't appear ALL THAT off the wall either, when you look at the effect even fairly minor QOL work rule changes can bring to staffing requirements. There is an interesting discussion going on over at the United thread:

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/112303-holy-increasing-utilization-batman-2.html#post2554215

Concerning how offsetting the increasing utilization from 52.2 to 54.4 block hours per month year to year would require an additional 513 pilots to be hired, just for United.

It isn't just more money per flying hour that changes going from the regionals to the majors, it's that there are a lot more hours for pay per block hour compared to the regionals. And at a certain point, since taxes are eating up your pay increases anyway, a lot of the negotiating clout goes into QOL stuff.

I looked at the United contract and there is damn near three pages of verbiage on what seat (first class, business class, etc.), United pilots will be booked for on deadheads, sorted out by length of deadhead, foreign or domestic, company aircraft, competitor, etc., same for hotels, flying credit for going through customs, and damn near every other facet of their QOL.

It's a hell of lot more difficult for the legacies to say that recruiting and training have suddenly gone FUBAR, so everybody needs to fly 80 hours of block time this month, contract be damned.

RemoveB4Flight
03-29-2018, 11:47 AM
everybody needs to fly 80 hours of block time this month

I wish I only had 80 hours of block each month..

Excargodog
03-29-2018, 12:27 PM
I wish I only had 80 hours of block each month..

Yeah,well the United pilots are talking about how short the manning is when their block times go from a 52 monthly average all the way up to 54. It ain't just a different world, it's a different universe.

guppy69
04-16-2018, 01:08 PM
What's the typical wait time from submitting an application to contact for an interview?

rickair7777
04-16-2018, 03:09 PM
What's the typical wait time from submitting an application to contact for an interview?

Did you accidentally leave your phone in airplane mode?

zondaracer
04-16-2018, 03:50 PM
What's the typical wait time from submitting an application to contact for an interview?

Less than 48 hours.

TheWeatherman
04-16-2018, 04:00 PM
What's the typical wait time from submitting an application to contact for an interview?
If you fully qualify take the distance between your computer and the computer of Skywest's HR computer and multiply it by two. Then divide it by the speed of light to figure out your wait time.

Bravix
04-16-2018, 04:08 PM
Did you accidentally leave your phone in airplane mode?

From application to interview call was within 48 hours. End of interview to conditional offer was MAYBE 12 hours.

guppy69
04-17-2018, 05:44 AM
Turns out it was 3 days. Maybe got lost in the ether for a bit.

zondaracer
04-17-2018, 05:54 AM
If you apply on a Friday night over, or over a holiday weekend, you might not hear back till Tuesday or so.

guppy69
04-17-2018, 06:18 AM
Anyone have data on how full the new hire classes have been in the past 6 months?

Utah
04-17-2018, 08:20 AM
Anyone have data on how full the new hire classes have been in the past 6 months?

I'll take a guess that it has been 60-80 new hires every month. Which has been about the same number of pilots quitting.

hawk21
04-22-2018, 03:07 PM
What's the typical wait time from submitting an application to contact for an interview?

I got the call about 2 hours later.

guppy69
04-23-2018, 01:19 PM
Anyone have the latest interview gouge?

trip
04-23-2018, 01:32 PM
Anyone have the latest interview gouge?

Can you start on Monday?

ImPilot I Fly
04-23-2018, 02:03 PM
Anyone have the latest interview gouge?

91.175c Know it and know how to use it

What three things are needed for a thunderstorm to form?

You clear the runway and you do your after landing flow. You are heads down for a few moments and when you look up, green lights are directly beneath the aircraft. What kind of surface are you on?

TMATW.

SEAtoSummit
04-23-2018, 02:45 PM
Anyone have the latest interview gouge?

PM Sent

filler

Platteriver
04-23-2018, 03:49 PM
Anyone have the latest interview gouge?

https://www.aviationinterviews.com has a very reliable gouge for Skywest. Also, know Jepps charts.
I highly recommend the online interview, if they make it available to you.

flysooner9
04-23-2018, 04:01 PM
Know your aircraft electrical system and describe how a particle of air flows through a jet engine.

Check Complete
04-23-2018, 04:17 PM
Anyone have the latest interview gouge?

If you have the required flight time, you have the job.

You could have felonies, multiple DUI's, you could be on federal parole, you have the job.

Bruno82
04-24-2018, 05:37 AM
So, if you had 6 years at another 121 carrier in the past and you are hired at SkyWest, you start at 6 year pay, is that correct?

flysooner9
04-24-2018, 05:58 AM
So, if you had 6 years at another 121 carrier in the past and you are hired at SkyWest, you start at 6 year pay, is that correct?

Yes correct

RemoveB4Flight
04-24-2018, 07:08 AM
So, if you had 6 years at another 121 carrier in the past and you are hired at SkyWest, you start at 6 year pay, is that correct?

Correct. However, it is worth noting that Skywest 6 year FO pay is equal to republics year one FO pay. Skywest FO pay tops out in year 8 at $48/hr while republics year 2 pay already beats it at $50/hr.
While comparing Endeavor, itís worse. When maxed out at Skywestís year 8 FO pay of $48/hr, you are not even able to obtain the same hourly rate as a 1st year FO at Endeavor at $50/hr.
If you can even believe it, a 7 year FO at Endeavor makes more per hour than a year 1 Skywest CA!
Itís scary that Skywest isnít keeping up with other regionals. Republic is a direct comparison, apples to apples, and yet Skywest is far behind.
The pay potential and QOL are better at other places (especially with the new reserve debacle).
Also, negotiations of new pay proposals at Skywest are apparently not going well.

amcnd
04-24-2018, 07:35 AM
Correct. However, it is worth noting that Skywest 6 year FO pay is equal to republics year one FO pay. Skywest FO pay tops out in year 8 at $48/hr while republics year 2 pay already beats it at $50/hr.
While comparing Endeavor, itís worse. When maxed out at Skywestís year 8 FO pay of $48/hr, you are not even able to obtain the same hourly rate as a 1st year FO at Endeavor at $50/hr.
If you can even believe it, a 7 year FO at Endeavor makes more per hour than a year 1 Skywest CA!
Itís scary that Skywest isnít keeping up with other regionals. Republic is a direct comparison, apples to apples, and yet Skywest is far behind.
The pay potential and QOL are better at other places (especially with the new reserve debacle).
Also, negotiations of new pay proposals at Skywest are apparently not going well.

If your more then a 2 year FO in this industry right now, somethings wrong.. your focused on the wrong thing... (yes FO pay should go up... but...)

RemoveB4Flight
04-24-2018, 07:55 AM
If your more then a 2 year FO in this industry right now, somethings wrong.. your focused on the wrong thing... (yes FO pay should go up... but...)

Or you have a family and are not willing to give that up for a commute to an East coast base with 2 days off between each 4-6 day work block?

Also, donít figure on everything in the industry staying the way it is. Any one of these guys considering Skywest COULD be stuck as an FO for much of their career if any one of a number of unfortunate events take place.

As far as FO pay needing to go up.. all pay needs to go up. I can do the same comparison with the captain scale if you would like.
The point is Skywest is far behind in pay and QOL and they are in no hurry to raise the bar.

Excargodog
04-24-2018, 08:21 AM
Or you have a family and are not willing to give that up for a commute to an East coast base with 2 days off between each 4-6 day work block?




As if working for Skywest guaranteed that you wouldn't wind up pulling reserve in LGA .
:(

Naw, if you are going to be assigned to East Coast bases, you need to at least be getting East Coast regional pay. East coast regional flows to a major would be good too.

WesternSkies
04-24-2018, 08:27 AM
My schedule is too great to give up.

While we are far behind 2 regionals in pay, I think of it as only 4 months behind ( and counting).

Excargodog
04-24-2018, 10:41 AM
My schedule is too great to give up.

While we are far behind 2 regionals in pay, I think of it as only 4 months behind ( and counting).


Hope springs eternal in the human breast-

Alexander Pope, circa 1734

Paid2fly
04-25-2018, 10:04 PM
My schedule is too great to give up.

While we are far behind 2 regionals in pay, I think of it as only 4 months behind ( and counting).








"4 months"?:confused::confused::confused:

WesternSkies
04-26-2018, 07:33 AM
"4 months"?:confused::confused::confused:

Republic signed theirs more recently retroactive to the beginning of the year.
9e has had the bonus for years but only put it in their hourly wage at the beginning of the year. We are 4 months behind in the timeline (and counting)

Until that happened the pay package we were negotiating a year ago had hourly pay rates in the top tier, even the ALPA magazine showed that.
Iím ready to get paid more but it will take time IMO.

Only 2 out of what 10 regionals have significantly recently raised real wages.

Check Complete
04-26-2018, 08:48 AM
Republic signed theirs more recently retroactive to the beginning of the year.
9e has had the bonus for years but only put it in their hourly wage at the beginning of the year. We are 4 months behind in the timeline (and counting)

Until that happened the pay package we were negotiating a year ago had hourly pay rates in the top tier, even the ALPA magazine showed that.
Iím ready to get paid more but it will take time IMO.

Only 2 out of what 10 regionals have significantly recently raised real wages.


I cannot see, in any way, SkyWest ever coming close to what Republic or Endeavor pays. Our management refuse to see the value of the pilot, and view themselves as the true asset to this airline.

Because the pilot group has zero negotiating strength and no unified leverage, the situation will never change.

They say "never bring a knife to a gun fight", SAPA has brought dirt clods to a nuclear war (management).

We're doomed!

WesternSkies
04-26-2018, 09:01 AM
We're doomed!

Maybe.
But OO is also profiting more than ever before thought possible for a regional. While that doesnít necessitate higher pay it is the first and very necessary step toward it.

Excargodog
04-26-2018, 11:29 AM
Only 2 out of what 10 regionals have significantly recently raised real wages.


Skywest: FO 37, 39, 41, Ca 63, 66, 69

Horizon: FO 40, 46, 47, Ca 70, 72, 74

Compass : FO 41, 42, 45, Ca 73, 76, 78

Endeavor FO 50, 56, 60, Ca 84, 86, 88

Envoy. FO 38, 40, 41, Ca 65, 67, 69

Republic FO. 45, 50, 51. Ca. 77, 79, 81

And these don't count retention bonuses

flydiamond
04-26-2018, 11:32 AM
Skywest: FO 37, 39, 41, Ca 63, 66, 69

Horizon: FO 40, 46, 47, Ca 70, 72, 74

Compass : FO 41, 42, 45, Ca 73, 76, 78

Endeavor FO 50, 56, 60, Ca 84, 86, 88

Envoy. FO 38, 40, 41, Ca 65, 67, 69

Republic FO. 45, 50, 51. Ca. 77, 79, 81

And these don't count retention bonuses

Youíve got Endeavor a bit low. More than 2/3rds of our pilots are on the 900 pay scale which is about $3 more an hour.

Check Complete
04-26-2018, 01:00 PM
Maybe.
But OO is also profiting more than ever before thought possible for a regional. While that doesn’t necessitate higher pay it is the first and very necessary step toward it.

The company is profiting off our backs, I couldn't give a damn how much they make!

There is no amount of profit they could make, they would still screw their employees!

Thanks for the economics advice, Chip!

WesternSkies
04-26-2018, 01:37 PM
Skywest: FO 37, 39, 41, Ca 63, 66, 69

Horizon: FO 40, 46, 47, Ca 70, 72, 74

Compass : FO 41, 42, 45, Ca 73, 76, 78

Endeavor FO 50, 56, 60, Ca 84, 86, 88

Envoy. FO 38, 40, 41, Ca 65, 67, 69

Republic FO. 45, 50, 51. Ca. 77, 79, 81

And these don't count retention bonuses

I appreciate you putting the pay rates together. It looks like we are about a 10 spot behind some and 20 from where we *should be*(100/hour CA is the min i'd like to see in the near term) and we are maybe about the same as the WOs.
I don't argue the amount we trail, only that 9e rates will take time. Not to be obtuse but this actually helps solidify my view point, meaning when did compass move 10 spot ahead of us in pay? That pay change had to be with in the last 4 months. These are recent changes and hopefully these negotiations will boost us 20 and not 10.

SkyW announced 1 Quarter profits this afternoon and net income came to about 20 million more this quarter than last. Like I said before the money is here now. The tricky part is (loose bad prognosticating example-only math alert) if we divvy up 80 million for the year among 4,500 pilots we are simply looking at a 20 spot situation which then leaves nothing to attract mechanics or dispatchers. A.K.A. low probability. A variable there though is that the top 25% of our pilot group would not really benefit from matching 9e because they are already matched.

Excargodog
04-26-2018, 02:37 PM
Not to be obtuse but this actually helps solidify my view point, meaning when did compass move 10 spot ahead of us in pay? That pay change had to be with in the last 4 months.

I believe it was actually September, about the same time they tacked on their all comers $17,500 new hire bonus. And of course, most of these other regionals also have new hire and/or retention bonuses. Even regionals like Mesa who has similar sucky pay rates to Skywest is at least putting out bonuses to get people in the door and promising them quick upgrades and/or retention pay. Skywest seems to just be falling farther and farther behind.

hawk21
04-26-2018, 05:12 PM
Nothing will change until new hires stop showing up. Tell your UND CFI friends to do some research before committing to this place just because OO flies a shiny E175 to their campus and get starry eyed.

SilentLurker
04-27-2018, 01:43 AM
Nothing will change until new hires stop showing up. Tell your UND CFI friends to do some research before committing to this place just because OO flies a shiny E175 to their campus and get starry eyed.


As the only non-union carrier (major carrier, +$1bil rev) remaining. A premium was on OO for better QOL and Pay etc.


I think you guys will get your pay & QOL. Ignore & latch out against those who are negotiation against you in public. You all achieve gains, if not mainline carriers should expect SkyWest pilot Group to vote in ALPA. They donít want that.

Your group is the whipsaw for the entire FFD industry. They donít want you to unionize.

Skyhawk121
04-27-2018, 09:22 AM
Skywest: FO 37, 39, 41, Ca 63, 66, 69

Horizon: FO 40, 46, 47, Ca 70, 72, 74

Compass : FO 41, 42, 45, Ca 73, 76, 78

Endeavor FO 50, 56, 60, Ca 84, 86, 88

Envoy. FO 38, 40, 41, Ca 65, 67, 69

Republic FO. 45, 50, 51. Ca. 77, 79, 81

And these don't count retention bonuses


Let's not leave out our friends at Mesa

Mesa : FO 36, 38, 38 CA 62, 64, 65

Things could be worse.

The above scales don't include retention bonuses and things like that, but the OO scales don't include pilot profit sharing, soft landings (for those with previous 121 time), or the type rating bonus. I'm not trying to come to the "rescue" of the company, but if we are going to talk about total compensation, it needs to be across the board, not total comp for the other carriers and flat scales for OO. I have only been here a few years, but all in all my life has been pretty decent here compared to my last carrier. Do I wish I made more, sure, who doesn't? As I said before, things could be worse.

Check Complete
04-27-2018, 10:25 AM
Let's not leave out our friends at Mesa

Mesa : FO 36, 38, 38 CA 62, 64, 65

Things could be worse.

I have only been here a few years, but all in all my life has been pretty decent here compared to my last carrier. Do I wish I made more, sure, who doesn't? As I said before, things could be worse.

I agree with what you have said, but.......

I've been here many years, and things are getting worse. It never ceases to amaze me at the efforts management makes to "CHIP AWAY" at employee compensation and QOL in maximizing profit. It's like a drug to them, and when management has their compensation packages tied to corporate profits it's no wonder because it's an easy target. Victim: Pilots.

An example is the announcement to stop CRJ flying at the SEA domicile. The company is not calling it a closure, they are calling it a reduction. They have told all the CRJ crews they have to bid around the system to find a position. If they can't hold SEA as a 175 pilot, well they get to move or commute, but there will be NO relocation pay. Nice!

Death by a thousand cuts!

Excargodog
04-27-2018, 12:04 PM
Let's not leave out our friends at Mesa

Mesa : FO 36, 38, 38 CA 62, 64, 65
.

Let's not leave out our friends at Mesa:

$50,000 bonus with $22,500 paid out at the completion of IOE and $20,000 paid at the end of year three if a pilot has not upgraded to captain. Additional $2,500 sign on bonus for CL-65 rated pilots who choose the CRJ. $5,000 additional for pilots who are type rated on the CRJ, E175 or E145 and have a minimum of 500 hours of part 121 flying in type.

Seriously, it costs your junior people virtually nothing to jump ship for bonuses, even at Mesa. So what if they lose nine months seniority, if they go to a place they can upgrade to Captain and get that TPIC sooner? They are going to lose that seniority when they go to a major anyway.

WesternSkies
04-27-2018, 12:56 PM
Caution with that 50k number, their upgrade is blow three years and that second payment isnít valid if you bypass upgrade or upgrade.

Excargodog
04-27-2018, 01:06 PM
Caution with that 50k number, their upgrade is blow three years and that second payment isn’t valid if you bypass upgrade or upgrade.

So you regard upgrading to captain - with a $27K raise in pay - as a negative?

I suppose you feel their flow program really sucks too.

And yeah, if you are a lifer I could see you turning down that upgrade until you could hold it in your base, but if you are just looking for 1000 TPIC?

Check Complete
04-27-2018, 01:38 PM
I remember the days when it wasn't even close that you had to defend SkyWest over Mesa.

Excargodog
04-27-2018, 01:46 PM
I agree with what you have said, but.......


An example is the announcement to stop CRJ flying at the SEA domicile. The company is not calling it a closure, they are calling it a reduction. They have told all the CRJ crews they have to bid around the system to find a position. If they can't hold SEA as a 175 pilot, well they get to move or commute, but there will be NO relocation pay. Nice!

Death by a thousand cuts!


So many of the policies of the company seem so chintzy. It ought to embarrass the management and employees alike. Examples:


Double occupancy while in training

$37.23/hr with 65hr guarantee in Training

On CRJ fleet, all soft time (vacation, sick, deadhead, min day credit, training, etc) are paid at CBR (CRJ Base Rate, aka. CRJ 200).

N1234
04-27-2018, 01:51 PM
So many of the policies of the company seem so chintzy. It ought to embarrass the management and employees alike. Examples:


Double occupancy while in training

$37.23/hr with 65hr guarantee in Training

On CRJ fleet, all soft time (vacation, sick, deadhead, min day credit, training, etc) are paid at CBR (CRJ Base Rate, aka. CRJ 200).

Every $ counts .... and people are still coming.

Excargodog
04-27-2018, 02:01 PM
Every $ counts .... and people are still coming.

They are, right up until they aren't.

hawk21
04-27-2018, 06:40 PM
Let's not leave out our friends at Mesa

Mesa : FO 36, 38, 38 CA 62, 64, 65

Things could be worse.



Please never compare us to Mesa again.

Idontevenfly
04-27-2018, 07:35 PM
Please never compare us to Mesa again.

Ah yes, don't compare the almighty prestigious SkyWest to another regional. LOL

93Sierra
04-27-2018, 07:42 PM
I can get back to phx about 4 years sooner as a mesa fo looking to upgrade...., never thought I would see OO and Mesa in the same sentence. Side note, if we are having issues with flaps settings, why is getting rid of the before takeoff flaps check a good idea ?

calmwinds
04-28-2018, 03:00 AM
I can get back to phx about 4 years sooner as a mesa fo looking to upgrade...., never thought I would see OO and Mesa in the same sentence. Side note, if we are having issues with flaps settings, why is getting rid of the before takeoff flaps check a good idea ?

Why would anyone go to Mesa in PHX over Compass? Same QOL issues. Same upgrade speeds. E175 for Compass, CRJ for Mesa. More money at Compass.

Reserve at OO is horrible for a commuter. A combo of long call and short call reserve. And, really uncommutable.

hawk21
04-28-2018, 05:53 AM
Ah yes, don't compare the almighty prestigious SkyWest to another regional. LOL

I never called SkyWest a prestigious regional. Those two words donít go together.

rickair7777
04-28-2018, 07:35 AM
Side note, if we are having issues with flaps settings, why is getting rid of the before takeoff flaps check a good idea ?

That one comes and goes every few years. If you don't like the current policy, just wait a while and it will change back.

Check Complete
04-28-2018, 07:54 AM
Side note, if we are having issues with flaps settings, why is getting rid of the before takeoff flaps check a good idea ?

One of the nice little elements of our management, not one of them have touched the controls, in years!

ImPilot I Fly
04-28-2018, 07:24 PM
One of the nice little elements of our management, not one of them have touched the controls, in years!

A notorious sim instructor once told me in CQ. "This SOP was written by hillbillies with pick up trucks flying Navajos and all the sudden they got jets."

WesternSkies
04-28-2018, 08:50 PM
We all see the errors. Nothing changes.

I take that back.
They do add more errors from time to time.