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View Full Version : Can you guys—


Bootleg
03-29-2018, 09:03 AM
Is it true that-after going thru the interview circus and getting a job there-that you can get “black balled” by any pilot there?

Seems kind of chicken$h!t way to do someone in —if in fact that’s true.

If I had a prob w someone, we could settle up in the parking lot, then go have a beer and laugh about it later

But I guess times are changing, what with all the snowflakes and what not.

Just was wondering if that rumor was true.


2strokin
03-29-2018, 09:19 AM
There is a link on our company website for pilot referrals. On that form you can either check recommend or not recommend. Now as far as how HR chooses to use that info, I don't know.

tanker
03-29-2018, 09:26 AM
The list of those interviewed are posted in the Crew Lounges. Any pilot can submit a letter of recommendation which can either be positive or negative. How much weight the negative letters get depend on the Chief Pilots as they make up the decision board. That being said the Chief's know which pilots have a reputation for chicken$hit.


Peacock
03-29-2018, 09:41 AM
Is it true that-after going thru the interview circus and getting a job there-that you can get “black balled” by any pilot there?

Seems kind of chicken$h!t way to do someone in —if in fact that’s true.

If I had a prob w someone, we could settle up in the parking lot, then go have a beer and laugh about it later

But I guess times are changing, what with all the snowflakes and what not.

Just was wondering if that rumor was true.

As others mentioned, yes there is a process for current pilots to “not recommend” someone. I recommended someone and got asked about him by a chief pilot as a follow up.

I heard if you submit a “not recommend” the chiefs set up a parking lot showdown between the applicant and current pilot. So I guess you should start training for your death match.

Rolf
03-29-2018, 09:57 AM
I dunno, I’m glad Pilots have (some) input on what kind of clown sits next to me. FWIW, I haven’t blackballed anyone, it would be reserved for special tools, not just a generic dislike.

Bootleg
03-29-2018, 10:25 AM
Wow——so “true” then. Kind of defeats the entire purpose of the interview process.

Interesting.


Thank you sirs for the replies.

CantStayAway
03-29-2018, 10:28 AM
Wow——so “true” then. Kind of defeats the entire purpose of the interview process.

Interesting.


Thank you sirs for the replies.

I agree with the poster above that it’s a good thing. The only people this should bother are those who are complete jerks.

Stitches
03-29-2018, 10:52 AM
One negative rec will not tank a job offer. I know this to be true from personal experience. The chiefs will consider the whole package.

at6d
03-29-2018, 11:20 AM
Wow——so “true” then. Kind of defeats the entire purpose of the interview process.

Interesting.


Thank you sirs for the replies.

So you ****ed somebody off at SWA? LOL.

Unless that person somehow knows you interviewed (we don’t all gather and stare at the list), I doubt it’s an issue.

Smooth at FL450
03-29-2018, 12:39 PM
It's not a black-ball in that it's a one and done kind of situation. Internal recs (recommend or not recommend) are taken into consideration by the chief pilots during the decision board. If the candidate put on a good show during the interview but there are a few guys with significant adverse history to share, then it's a good thing that their information can be factored in. But I'd expect a phone call for clarification if you write a letter torpedo'ing a guy. And as far as I know, once the candidate makes it past the decision board, those internal recs (or no-recs) no longer factor in.

The system works. We are not a charity. If you feel somebody is/would write a not-recommend letter, then time for some self-reflection and get those issues ironed out ahead of time.

CGfalconHerc
03-29-2018, 01:40 PM
I agree with the poster above that it’s a good thing. The only people this should bother are those who are complete jerks.

Unless it's the Jerk who gets hired first..then black-balls 3 guys to make sure SWA doesn't know he got fired from a previous airline and is under investigation from a mishap in the military.

Doesn't matter to me..but a couple guys I know were pretty bummed after getting a type rating, doing well in the interview and making it to the decision board only to get shot down. It was later confirmed that the Jerk had indeed "not recommended" them in order to hide his past..and they never got a call from anyone at SWA to elaborate on the negative opinion.

But they're on to bigger and better things now..water under the bridge..but it did happen, and the 3 that were black-balled were definitely not jerks.

ZapBrannigan
03-29-2018, 02:54 PM
I would only blackball someone who uses the word “snowflake”.

It’s really overused and it bugs me.


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tm602
03-29-2018, 04:02 PM
I would only blackball someone who uses the word “snowflake”.

It’s really overused and it bugs me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake
Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake
Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake Snowflake

Just in fun.

Psycho18th
03-29-2018, 05:46 PM
I think a person would have to be pretty terrible for me to influence ruining their career and hurt their family’s income by writing a do-not-recommend. I get the feeling it’s hard to sneak past the three people on the HR interview, the two pilots in the LOI, and the pilot doing a logbook review, on top of the people you’d run into getting to/from the interview without your true colors shining through if you were a true a-hole worth not-recommending. But then again, I snuck in, so they must have some off days...

Smokey23
03-29-2018, 05:50 PM
Unless it's the Jerk who gets hired first..then black-balls 3 guys to make sure SWA doesn't know he got fired from a previous airline and is under investigation from a mishap in the military.

If this really happened as you described (and if so, it would be far & away the greatest hiring injustice I have ever heard of in my 20 yrs here), you or any of your three buds can retroactively 'black-ball' said Jerk with an anonymous phone call to our People Dept. I find it hard to believe they might not have caught such egregious skeletons in the course of their background checks, but if the Jerk did not disclose them at the time he was hired, he could still be terminated at any time afterwards for lying on his app.

e6bpilot
03-29-2018, 06:44 PM
I have flown with one of our background checkers. They are pretty meticulous and I find it hard to believe that anyone with skeletons mentioned above would get it past them. They go to great lengths and have seen just about every trick in the book as far as covering stuff up. They are basically a team of pilot private investigators.

Yes, we have a “not recommend” option. I view it as a good thing. Anyone who has ever had a job anywhere knows about “that guy” that can do no wrong in the eyes of his/her bosses but sucks as a pilot and human being. If I had a problem with someone I know working here, I would use it in a heartbeat.
I would hope I would get a call from someone to ask about it, but I doubt it is a single point of failure as far as getting a job offer or any kind of deal breaker.

CGfalconHerc
03-29-2018, 06:53 PM
If this really happened as you described (and if so, it would be far & away the greatest hiring injustice I have ever heard of in my 20 yrs here), you or any of your three buds can retroactively 'black-ball' said Jerk with an anonymous phone call to our People Dept. I find it hard to believe they might not have caught such egregious skeletons in the course of their background checks, but if the Jerk did not disclose them at the time he was hired, he could still be terminated at any time afterwards for lying on his app.

It did happen. According to my buds, the Jerk was working for his previous airline and when the military investigation team met him at the gate for his statement, the Jerk refused, and confronted the CP about telling CGI his schedule. The CP asked why CGI wanted to talk to him..he refused..and he was fired/ quit simultaneously. Since he says he quit, he wouldn't have had to declare it on his app. In addition, he already had a class date with SWA..so he just went and made sure noone else would inform SWA. The military investigation wasn't concluded until he was already working for SWA, so they doubted that he had lied on his app since nothing was concluded when he was interviewing. They didn't think SWA would take the word from a non-employee, did not want some sort of legal fight while they were looking for a job...so they moved on and got hired elsewhere. The real price was paid by his copilot and enlisted crew who wound up taking the fall for him while he lived the high-life at SWA.

Plus, the Jerk had a family too. They had deployed with him..and messing with a family's financial future was a step they weren't willing to take. Something about Karma..and "forgiving those who trespass against you."

Like I said..they've moved on..and according to them.. the Jerk isn't worth it. The only reason I mentioned it..was that it is possible for guys/gals to get black-balled..even after urinalysis..which used to be the informal thumbs-up that they were hired.

Maybe the process has changed since then. I'm glad HR tries to contact the applicant if a negative referral is in play. Probably would have shed some light on the situation.

Smooth at FL450
03-29-2018, 07:52 PM
Herc Guy...curious how long ago this happened?

CGfalconHerc
03-29-2018, 07:53 PM
Herc Guy...curious how long ago this happened?

98-99...before the internet and PRIA.

Silver02ex
03-29-2018, 08:09 PM
Wow——so “true” then. Kind of defeats the entire purpose of the interview process.

Interesting.


Thank you sirs for the replies.

Most airlines are this way. If someone ****ed off a bunch of people at a previous airline. Would you want to deal with that person at your current airline? This is usually a problem with someone who made a negative impression to many pilots not just one person’s opinion.

Smooth at FL450
03-29-2018, 08:35 PM
98-99...before the internet and PRIA.

Hmm...no idea what the process was like back then, other than no real internet

Bootleg
03-29-2018, 11:37 PM
So you ****ed somebody off at SWA? LOL.

Unless that person somehow knows you interviewed (we don’t all gather and stare at the list), I doubt it’s an issue.

No not at all. Just something someone told me a while back and I wondered if there was anything to it.

I have had many SW jumpseaters on my plane back in the day, was always glad to offer the ride. I have the 737 type and many friends there, altho I have lost touch w them over the years. Would have loved to work there.

However

My airline aspirations and efforts pretty much ended when the buildings hit the ground on 9/11/01.

God bless.

terminal
03-30-2018, 12:26 AM
Is it true that-after going thru the interview circus and getting a job there-that you can get “black balled” by any pilot there?

Seems kind of chicken$h!t way to do someone in —if in fact that’s true.

If I had a prob w someone, we could settle up in the parking lot, then go have a beer and laugh about it later

But I guess times are changing, what with all the snowflakes and what not.

Just was wondering if that rumor was true.

Well considering that the “not recommend” has been there for quite a long time I’m not sure snowflake applies...and you’re misusing it.
Sounds like a friend didn’t get hired and are trying to figure it out. Fair enough, I have had a few friends not get the thumbs up there...every single one of them said they thought the interview went well.
I think it’s a tough spot to not get hired, you think everything went well, you get positive feedback in the interview, and wonder where in the chain of events it all went wrong.
TBH, I’m not sure how, given our litigious society, SWA has been legally able to get away with a behind the scenes so called “blackball”...seems to me, anyone should be able to know if negative information was being reported about them.

I for one think it’s a good thing, just surprised they can do it.

Bootleg
03-30-2018, 05:00 AM
Well considering that the “not recommend” has been there for quite a long time I’m not sure snowflake applies...and you’re misusing it.
Sounds like a friend didn’t get hired and are trying to figure it out. Fair enough, I have had a few friends not get the thumbs up there...every single one of them said they thought the interview went well.
I think it’s a tough spot to not get hired, you think everything went well, you get positive feedback in the interview, and wonder where in the chain of events it all went wrong.
TBH, I’m not sure how, given our litigious society, SWA has been legally able to get away with a behind the scenes so called “blackball”...seems to me, anyone should be able to know if negative information was being reported about them.

I for one think it’s a good thing, just surprised they can do it.


As far as I know, all my friends that applied there got hired there. You didn’t read my initial post very well. I share your surprise that (1) Southwest uses such a policy and (2) no one has sued anybody because of it.

My apologies to any of the sensitive folk present concerning my careless use of the word “snowflake”.

full of luv
03-30-2018, 05:01 AM
Most airlines are this way. If someone ****ed off a bunch of people at a previous airline. Would you want to deal with that person at your current airline? This is usually a problem with someone who made a negative impression to many pilots not just one person’s opinion.

This is true.... most pilots (people) are inherently lazy and if an impending hire draws the interest of more than a few to go out of their way to not-recommend..... one personal vendetta could be over anything from mates to money, but to have more than a few come out of the woodwork, that has to hold a pretty good impression on any hiring board.

full of luv
03-30-2018, 05:04 AM
Hmm...no idea what the process was like back then, other than no real internet

It was the "dark ages". You had to read newsletters/magazines, talk to people, or heaven forbid, make phone calls or write to HR departments to get an application or learn about the process.

I'm sure it's hard for younger people to even imagine going to school, looking for a job, or even hooking up for "one night stand" without the use of the internet!

Bootleg
03-30-2018, 05:05 AM
http://www.rantpets.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/pinterest-guide-horse.jpg

There. A therapy pony.


Everyone should be feeling better now.

Bootleg
03-30-2018, 05:11 AM
It was the "dark ages". You had to read newsletters/magazines, talk to people, or heaven forbid, make phone calls or write to HR departments to get an application or learn about the process.

I'm sure it's hard for younger people to even imagine going to school, looking for a job, or even hooking up for "one night stand" without the use of the internet!


Careful there buddy, better throttle back and put the seat belt sign on. There are some sensitive folks on here that might start crying any minute. Sounds like you and I are around the same age.

I remember rotary phones, and when your word and your handshake was your bond.

Those days are long gone for most people

Smooth at FL450
03-30-2018, 06:38 AM
It was the "dark ages". You had to read newsletters/magazines, talk to people, or heaven forbid, make phone calls or write to HR departments to get an application or learn about the process.

I'm sure it's hard for younger people to even imagine going to school, looking for a job, or even hooking up for "one night stand" without the use of the internet!

My point was simply that I was not a SWA employee back then...but thanks for the history lesson pops!

Smokey23
03-30-2018, 06:43 AM
98-99...before the internet and PRIA.

PRIA passed in 1996, and yes, SWA still did a lot of background checking even before the internet (which everyone knows Al Gore invented before he became VP in 1992)

Peacock
03-30-2018, 08:49 AM
Careful there buddy, better throttle back and put the seat belt sign on. There are some sensitive folks on here that might start crying any minute. Sounds like you and I are around the same age.

I remember rotary phones, and when your word and your handshake was your bond.

Those days are long gone for most people
WTF are you talking about, tough guy? You started this thread *****ing about the ability to give negative feedback on prospective hires. That seems like kind of a snowflake opinion to have.

Now you’re making post after post of nonsensical gibberish. Maybe stick to yelling at clouds next time.

Bootleg
03-30-2018, 09:09 AM
WTF are you talking about, tough guy? You started this thread *****ing about the ability to give negative feedback on prospective hires. That seems like kind of a snowflake opinion to have.

Now you’re making post after post of nonsensical gibberish. Maybe stick to yelling at clouds next time.

Go back a couple pages and pet the therapy pony


You’ll feel much better.

(I think someone’s missed their Prozac dose today)

Peacock
03-30-2018, 09:24 AM
Go back a couple pages and pet the therapy pony


You’ll feel much better.

(I think someone’s missed their Prozac dose today)

I saw that. It made about as much sense as the rest of your posts. I hope I didn’t hurt your feelings too bad, snowflake. Let me know if I’m triggering you.

Bootleg
03-30-2018, 09:26 AM
I saw that. It made about as much sense as the rest of your posts. I hope I didn’t hurt your feelings too bad, snowflake. Let me know if I’m triggering you.


Nah, not at all. You just can’t read.

And for your snowflake jab at me—you couldn’t be more off base. I’m not the one backstabbing people. If I have a problem w someone it’s ALWAYS gonna be “head on”.

2StgTurbine
03-30-2018, 09:53 AM
I saw that. It made about as much sense as the rest of your posts. I hope I didn’t hurt your feelings too bad, snowflake. Let me know if I’m triggering you.

I am confused about his demeanor too. He seems a little immature, but if he wants to blame 9/11 on his failed career, then I guess he must be older than he acts.

Bootleg
03-30-2018, 10:01 AM
For all the illiterate present—

You can go back a few pages and read post 11. This guy gets it.

My point is that there exists a system of abuse that can cause some poor [email protected] a lot of grief— for no reason at all.

“SEE POST 11”

2StgTurbine
03-30-2018, 10:14 AM
No reading comprehension problem. We get it - you think it is unfair. The majority of the posters don't seem to share your concern. It seems negative recommendations are just another tool used by those conducting the interview to evaluate someone. So far, the only "evidence" you have that paints the picture you want us to see is hearsay from 20 years ago!

Most of us can think of a few pilots from our past that we would not want at our current company. Plenty here see some value in a system that prevents our current employer from hiring a problem child. Sure, there is potential for the system to be abused, but that's life.

And if you can't see the irony of a person complaining about snowflakes while whining about how unfair life is...

saab2000
03-30-2018, 10:17 AM
I am confused about his demeanor too. He seems a little immature, but if he wants to blame 9/11 on his failed career, then I guess he must be older than he acts.

My career was set back 15+ years by 9/11, a fact I try to just not worry about because a lot of people lost a lot more than I did. So I just leave it at that. But it did cost a lot of people a lot in their careers. I just started at SWA last year at age 50. Happy as can be to be here but I'm quite certain another major carrier or other things were in play when that awful day happened and the airline I was at underwent a total upheaval and all movement came screeching to a halt. It took until 2016 to get an interview with a major carrier again. Water under the bridge. In all seriousness, I'm not bitter about things I can't control. Others lost much, much more.

As to the negative referral thing, I think it can happen, but rarely does. The Post #11 example is very specific and appears to apply to one person. It's an unfortunate example. I can't think of anyone to whom I would give a negative referral, even people I really disliked flying with because maybe the bad person on that case was me, not the other one. Sometimes we all have off trips or just don't like someone but we need to get through those situations as adults and professionals. I can't imagine torpedoing someone's career though I can imagine not writing an LOR for a handful of folks. Mostly those folks would never ask me for one anyway.

flensr
03-30-2018, 10:30 AM
It's so fun when a guy randomly walks into an airline-specific forum he doesn't even work for, and starts whining about hiring policies based on something that happened 2 decades ago.

It's just a bit like walking into a library and walking around farting loudly, just to have someone to argue with when someone points out that he's being intentionally unpleasant in a location he only visited so he could cause trouble.

Sometimes it's just trolling, but this guy sure seems intent on making sure everyone thinks he really is that unpleasant to be around.

2StgTurbine
03-30-2018, 10:31 AM
My career was set back 15+ years by 9/11, a fact I try to just not worry about because a lot of people lost a lot more than I did.

Thousands of careers were affected by 9/11. This guy is coming off as an a$$hat and is being overly aggressive because he has a chip on his shoulder.

You were able to express valid concerns that I agree with. Unfortunately, Bootleg isn't able to express himself with that same skill.

Bootleg
03-30-2018, 10:39 AM
My career was set back 15+ years by 9/11, a fact I try to just not worry about because a lot of people lost a lot more than I did. So I just leave it at that. But it did cost a lot of people a lot in their careers. I just started at SWA last year at age 50. Happy as can be to be here but I'm quite certain another major carrier or other things were in play when that awful day happened and the airline I was at underwent a total upheaval and all movement came screeching to a halt. It took until 2016 to get an interview with a major carrier again. Water under the bridge. In all seriousness, I'm not bitter about things I can't control. Others lost much, much more.

As to the negative referral thing, I think it can happen, but rarely does. The Post #11 example is very specific and appears to apply to one person. It's an unfortunate example. I can't think of anyone to whom I would give a negative referral, even people I really disliked flying with because maybe the bad person on that case was me, not the other one. Sometimes we all have off trips or just don't like someone but we need to get through those situations as adults and professionals. I can't imagine torpedoing someone's career though I can imagine not writing an LOR for a handful of folks. Mostly those folks would never ask me for one anyway.

Well said buddy. I just chose not to address the youngsters comment-it’s sheer stupidity, nothing more.


Btw. Never said my “career” was a failure—his mousse must be too tight.

Peacock
03-30-2018, 10:55 AM
Well said buddy. I just chose not to address the youngsters comment-it’s sheer stupidity, nothing more.


Btw. Never said my “career” was a failure—his mousse must be too tight.
Tell us another story about your rotary phone, pee paw

NoDrop
03-30-2018, 11:02 AM
Some see the blackball as a method of revenge or getting even.

I sat at the bar one night in FLL listening to a female SW FO brag about all of the guys from her former regional that she had blackballed.

Bootleg
03-30-2018, 11:24 AM
Some see the blackball as a method of revenge or getting even.

I sat at the bar one night in FLL listening to a female SW FO brag about all of the guys from her former regional that she had blackballed.

That’s a dam shame.

But really, what more can you expect from someone who has a vengeance based, hormone imbalance driven thought process?

Or a snowflake—-

barabek
03-30-2018, 02:19 PM
That’s a dam shame.

But really, what more can you expect from someone who has a vengeance based, hormone imbalance driven thought process?

Or a snowflake—-

You must be a true joy to hang out with. Can you please apply here so we can fly together one day. Oh, and please call me a snowflake!

Bootleg
03-30-2018, 03:39 PM
You must be a true joy to hang out with. Can you please apply here so we can fly together one day. Oh, and please call me a snowflake!

No, no can do. Got better things to do with my time.

ZapBrannigan
03-30-2018, 03:48 PM
Can we please stop saying the word snowflake? Makes it sound like the entire thread can’t come up with its own adjectives and instead had to steal one from Fox News and drive it into the ground.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

NarcolepticAV8R
03-30-2018, 03:57 PM
This thread smells like flame bait from post 1.

barabek
03-30-2018, 03:58 PM
No, no can do. Got better things to do with my time.

Awww, I just melted a little bit.

FmrPropCapt
03-30-2018, 10:45 PM
These two are supposed to hold ATP’s... in theory?


Evvvvveryone knows a couple guys like this at their airline.

Bootleg
03-31-2018, 03:34 AM
I asked a question about something I had heard. The question was answered—found to be true. I was surprised by that.

Nothing else to see here.

Move along

Rolf
03-31-2018, 11:49 AM
Boot,

I believe that to be true for every airline out there. It’s not perfect, but it’s something. If I’m going to sink someone’s career, they will have earned it. And like you pointed out, tools can slip thru. Checking the interviewee list against the jumpseat protection list would be an excellent use of a negative recommendation, imo.

ZapBrannigan
03-31-2018, 11:59 AM
Remember the old saying, “Always be nice to your FOs, they might be the captain at your next job.”?

Just be a good person. We aren’t launching a Mars probe here. It just flying airplanes. If you are fun to be with on a 4 day trip, can learn something from another pilot in either seat, tell stories and listen to stories from others without interrupting, you’re probably ok. Oh, also don’t harass any coworkers. I don’t want to have to make excuses for why you’re creepy.

If someone gets torpedoed, they probably deserve it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Bootleg
03-31-2018, 12:10 PM
Boot,

I believe that to be true for every airline out there. It’s not perfect, but it’s something. If I’m going to sink someone’s career, they will have earned it. And like you pointed out, tools can slip thru. Checking the interviewee list against the jumpseat protection list would be an excellent use of a negative recommendation, imo.


Rolf,

You have a valid point. No doubt, some people have done things to more than deserve something to happen to them like that. But—I have a soft spot for little kids and families. I just don’t know if I could do it—even if I hated the guy. He might have a family depending on him.

Idk.

Bootleg
03-31-2018, 12:18 PM
Remember the old saying, “Always be nice to your FOs, they might be the captain at your next job.”?

Just be a good person. We aren’t launching a Mars probe here. It just flying airplanes. If you are fun to be with on a 4 day trip, can learn something from another pilot in either seat, tell stories and listen to stories from others without interrupting, you’re probably ok. Oh, also don’t harass any coworkers. I don’t want to have to make excuses for why you’re creepy.

If someone gets torpedoed, they probably deserve it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Zap,

Unfortunately, I had 6 years in the right seat—so I more than agree with you about being nice to your FO. I think (know) that made me a better captain. But there was more than one example of that program being abused here. Like the chick in the bar bragging about torpedoing guys from her regional. That’s not cool. I would hate like hell to fly with her. A very quiet month for sure.

shootr
04-01-2018, 07:50 AM
I had an opportunity to "not recommend" a former boss/total tool and I didn't. He asked me for a recommendation and I told him he'd be better off without my input. While I waited to hear back about whether or not he'd been hired, I hoped for the best that the people department would figure him out. I also had regret the whole time that I didn't say something about what a tool he was.

In the end, he was not hired so happy ending?

Bootleg
04-01-2018, 09:16 AM
Exactly. The fair process prevailed w no negative karma on you.

Well done sir!

Things most often work themselves out

shootr
04-01-2018, 09:21 AM
Yes, but...I would be singing a different tune had he been able to act his way through the process and been hired on. Also, somebody else may have done the deed. Just saying the ability exists for a reason.

Peacock
04-01-2018, 10:46 AM
Exactly. The fair process prevailed w no negative karma on you.

Well done sir!

Things most often work themselves out

You believe in karma? Sounds kinda new age, snowflake.

TransWorld
04-01-2018, 11:33 AM
I had an opportunity to "not recommend" a former boss/total tool and I didn't. He asked me for a recommendation and I told him he'd be better off without my input. While I waited to hear back about whether or not he'd been hired, I hoped for the best that the people department would figure him out. I also had regret the whole time that I didn't say something about what a tool he was.

In the end, he was not hired so happy ending?

I guess I would have the guts to provide a carefully worded letter, one which an experienced HR person would see right through.

Something like he is in a class by himself. No one is equal to him. When he is running the show, he really runs the show. No one can be compared to him.

No lies. Nothing derogatory. Nothing illegal. But like I said, if someone reads HR letters for a living, they will get the point.

But, that is just my style.

shootr
04-01-2018, 12:45 PM
That's not what SWA hiring wants. They want the plain truth about prospective hires. Otherwise, they're gonna call you. In hindsight, I should have sent in the "not recommend". Relieved it worked out despite me not participating.

hindsight2020
04-01-2018, 12:55 PM
We aren’t launching a Mars probe here. It just flying airplanes.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Actually... I heard that at SW, intl turns ARE Apollo missions. :rolleyes:

A FAT buddy of mine told me a story about the middle managers trying to figure out PR ops when the routes were being grabbed from the tranny, and hoo boy some of the details made me have to carry my jaw in my arms for a week. Forget Irops, a baseline 8th grade civics class was in order for these folks. :D

TransWorld
04-01-2018, 06:11 PM
That's not what SWA hiring wants. They want the plain truth about prospective hires. Otherwise, they're gonna call you. In hindsight, I should have sent in the "not recommend". Relieved it worked out despite me not participating.

You are right, they would probably call me. I would be glad for that.

I am always hesitant to put negative things in writing. Letter, Email, texting, etc. Remember they live forever. These have a tendency to come back to bite you, in a court of law or otherwise.

Verbally in person or on the phone I am a lot more comfortable flat out stating “not recommended”.

ipdanno
04-06-2018, 12:47 PM
If the Chiefs, prior to or during a decision board, are permitted to consider a "yes recommended" letter, then it is certainly fair they should be able to consider a "not recommended" letter. I would think it helps to develop a 'whole person' picture upon which to base a CJO, or not. If you prohibit one type of letter, you need to prohibit all letters from current employees.

I'm not in the hiring business, but I suspicion that a CJO could not be pulled by a Not Recommended letter. The CJO might not be offered in the first place, if the Chiefs developed a picture of a candidate that doesn't work well with others, or won't fit into the culture preached.

Next Point:
Non-receipt of a CJO does not torpedo one's career. It might torpedo the interviewee's aspirations, but to be qualified to interview, one already is working somehow, somewhere, in this field. No CJO? Keep plugging away where you are, military-corporate-regional-ACMI-etc, and/or keep applying elsewhere.
If you can't seem to get a CJO anywhere, you might be interviewing poorly, and there are people to help with that.
If you believe your interview skills can't be improved, then maybe the historical impressions you left with coworkers is coming home to roost.

Squallrider
04-06-2018, 01:49 PM
If the Chiefs, prior to or during a decision board, are permitted to consider a "yes recommended" letter, then it is certainly fair they should be able to consider a "not recommended" letter. I would think it helps to develop a 'whole person' picture upon which to base a CJO, or not. If you prohibit one type of letter, you need to prohibit all letters from current employees.

I'm not in the hiring business, but I suspicion that a CJO could not be pulled by a Not Recommended letter. The CJO might not be offered in the first place, if the Chiefs developed a picture of a candidate that doesn't work well with others, or won't fit into the culture preached.

Next Point:
Non-receipt of a CJO does not torpedo one's career. It might torpedo the interviewee's aspirations, but to be qualified to interview, one already is working somehow, somewhere, in this field. No CJO? Keep plugging away where you are, military-corporate-regional-ACMI-etc, and/or keep applying elsewhere.
If you can't seem to get a CJO anywhere, you might be interviewing poorly, and there are people to help with that.
If you believe your interview skills can't be improved, then maybe the historical impressions you left with coworkers is coming home to roost.

Everyone gets a CJO now the day after interview, it’s used to authorize a background check should they choose to move forward with a candidate. So CJO not indictivate of anything anymore.

Spark
04-07-2018, 06:09 AM
Bootleg,

After reading this entire thread I can see why you may need to worry about our ability to “not recommend” a pilot applicant.
While I have never given anyone the “not recommend”, I wouldn’t hesitate to do so for someone who was unsafe or without integrity. We have an outstanding pilot group, and part of our responsibility is to help keep it outstanding through recommendations. Keep in mind that pilot recommendations are only a piece of the pie.
As far as the gal torpedoing applicants, or the dude trying to keep his past a secret, the CP group are aware (or soon will be) of troublemaker pilots who slipped through the cracks.
The system isn’t perfect, and it fails us sometimes by allowing bad dudes through and keeping good dudes out (most everyone knows a good dude who didn’t get it), but I’m consistently amazed at the job our pilot recruitment/hiring/interview team does.

ipdanno
04-07-2018, 08:56 AM
Everyone gets a CJO now the day after interview, it’s used to authorize a background check should they choose to move forward with a candidate. So CJO not indictivate of anything anymore.

I did not know that was now the case. Thank you for the update.

at6d
04-07-2018, 09:45 AM
Let’s remember that CJO stands for Conditional Job Offer. It’s possible to have your job recinded even in newhire training (if something in your background or a lie is found).

I’ve never actually heard of anyone sending in a shoot-down letter. I know the option exists, but it’s not the same as a PRIA “we would not hire him/her again” statement.

Bootleg
04-08-2018, 11:13 AM
Bootleg,

After reading this entire thread I can see why you may need to worry about our ability to “not recommend” a pilot applicant.
While I have never given anyone the “not recommend”, I wouldn’t hesitate to do so for someone who was unsafe or without integrity. We have an outstanding pilot group, and part of our responsibility is to help keep it outstanding through recommendations. Keep in mind that pilot recommendations are only a piece of the pie.
As far as the gal torpedoing applicants, or the dude trying to keep his past a secret, the CP group are aware (or soon will be) of troublemaker pilots who slipped through the cracks.
The system isn’t perfect, and it fails us sometimes by allowing bad dudes through and keeping good dudes out (most everyone knows a good dude who didn’t get it), but I’m consistently amazed at the job our pilot recruitment/hiring/interview team does.

Spark

There’s no need at all for me to worry about any policy that Southwest has. I agree with you 100 percent, as every Southwest guy or gal I’ve encountered has been top notch. I’ve given many southwest pilots a jumpseat and jumped myself on SW.

I repeat, that this blackball thing is something that I had heard and simply wanted to know if In fact it was true.

And it is.

So as far as I’m concerned—case closed.

Spark
04-08-2018, 11:13 AM
Spark



There’s no need at all for me to worry about any policy that Southwest has. I agree with you 100 percent, as every Southwest guy or gal I’ve encountered has been top notch. I’ve given many southwest pilots a jumpseat and jumped myself on SW.



I repeat, that this blackball thing is something that I had heard and simply wanted to know if In fact it was true.



And it is.



So as far as I’m concerned—case closed.



[emoji106]

utahpilot
04-11-2018, 11:09 AM
I have it on very good authority that a certain sim instructor infamous for terrorizing pilots at a certain regional was torpedoed thrice, sometimes en masse, with letters from pilots who had to put up with his stupid macho head games there. He otherwise had interviewed successfully.

2StgTurbine
04-11-2018, 11:19 AM
I have it on very good authority that a certain sim instructor infamous for terrorizing pilots at a certain regional was torpedoed thrice, sometimes en masse, with letters from pilots who had to put up with his stupid macho head games there. He otherwise had interviewed successfully.

From Pinnacle?

TheAshtar
04-11-2018, 01:22 PM
I have it on very good authority that a certain sim instructor infamous for terrorizing pilots at a certain regional was torpedoed thrice, sometimes en masse, with letters from pilots who had to put up with his stupid macho head games there. He otherwise had interviewed successfully.


True.

Not Pinnacle.

KA

torpid0
04-11-2018, 03:51 PM
True.

Not Pinnacle.

KA

100% true. The system works

utahpilot
04-11-2018, 05:42 PM
True.

Not Pinnacle.

KA

Yes, indeed

at6d
04-11-2018, 09:08 PM
Did he leave Spirit recently?



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