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View Full Version : Military to Majors


Bruh
04-02-2018, 05:48 PM
Hi,
I’m approaching the end of my Air Force pilot commitment and looking for intelligent/candid advice as I prepare to embark on a career in the airlines where my goal is to get to the majors. I was an aircraft commander in C-17 where I accrued a total of 1,350 hours (653 PIC, 464 SIC, 233 OTH).

1. Due to my low hours in the C-17, I imagine I will have to fly for the regionals first to build 121 PIC time. If I perform well, how long would it realistically take to build enough quality time to get the majors? How many hours until someone like me would be considered competitive?

2. Do Air Force pilots with global mobility experience (i.e. C-17) have any sort of advantage in getting to the majors?

3. What is the most realistic way for me to get to the majors and what, in your experience, might that roadmap/timeline look like?

Thanx :cool:
Bruh


rickair7777
04-02-2018, 06:26 PM
Hi,
I’m approaching the end of my Air Force pilot commitment and looking for intelligent/candid advice as I prepare to embark on a career in the airlines where my goal is to get to the majors. I was an aircraft commander in C-17 where I accrued a total of 1,350 hours (653 PIC, 464 SIC, 233 OTH).

1. Due to my low hours in the C-17, I imagine I will have to fly for the regionals first to build 121 PIC time. If I perform well, how long would it realistically take to build enough quality time to get the majors? How many hours until someone like me would be considered competitive?

I see Navy helo guys from the reserves spending 1-2 years at regionals right now. That would get you to 2K-3K TT which is still low for mobility pilots for the top-tier. You would be competitive for second-tier majors pretty quickly. If you upgrade and get 1000 121 TPIC, you should be good for anybody.

1300 is a bit low for mobility, that's typical fighter numbers. Was there an issue along the way?


2. Do Air Force pilots with global mobility experience (i.e. C-17) have any sort of advantage in getting to the majors?

All military have an advantage over civilian track. There are a LOT of variables, and variability between airlines, but all else being equal many airlines would prioritize applicants like this:

Astronaut
Fighters
Heavies
Helos
Civilian 121
Civilian 135
Civilian 91

Again very broad generalization.

Military + 121 seems to be a very good recipe right now.


3. What is the most realistic way for me to get to the majors and what, in your experience, might that roadmap/timeline look like?

Regional. Pick one with a fast upgrade. You may not need it, but better to have it available. You could also bum in the guard instead of regionals, but that would take longer and wouldn't punch any tickets you don't already have (other than network).

Bruh
04-02-2018, 07:19 PM
Rickair,
Solid info - thank you!

1300 is a bit low for mobility, that's typical fighter numbers. Was there an issue along the way?

I left the mobility world to fly RPAs (MQ-1s & MQ-9s).

Regional. Pick one with a fast upgrade. You may not need it, but better to have it available.

I’ve seen several posts now mentioning pilots who move to the majors from the regionals as soon as they can. Once hired by a major, is it easy for pilots to drop the regionals and switch? That is, are there not contractual flying commitments for the regionals like in the military?


Excargodog
04-02-2018, 07:53 PM
See PM this date.

BarrySeal
04-02-2018, 08:30 PM
is OP for real ? these are Airline 101 posts his mil buddies in his network should all be able to answer

F15andMD11
04-03-2018, 02:13 AM
I left the mobility world to fly RPAs (MQ-1s & MQ-9s) Yeah you're low time. Regionals to build time, especially if you're not current, which is what it sounds like. Unfortunately its SIC time, but good experience.
As was mentioned, you need PIC time. What's your plan for that? Go fly white jets, plenty of flight time to be had there!:cool:

Hacker15e
04-03-2018, 04:10 AM
3. What is the most realistic way for me to get to the majors and what, in your experience, might that roadmap/timeline look like?

As you speculated (and has been said), your shortest and most highly effective route is going to be through the regionals, for a combination of reasons. You're simply not in the running for any "career destination" with your current experience. The combination of your military heavy time and 121 experience will, however, make you quite competitive.

The question of "how long do I have to be at the regionals" is the tough one to answer as it depends highly on which regional you go to (how many hours will you fly, and how long is the upgrade time) and which major you want to end up with (especially those that have a 1000-hour PIC desired hurdle).

Your first hurdle is just going to be 1500 hours so you can have an unrestricted ATP, as none of the major jobs are going to give you a look until you have that on your application. That's going to require about 6 months at a regional -- assuming a 2-3 month training cycle and a 100-hour IOE/consolidation period that will probably span about 2 months. A month or two of flying the line and you'll be over the line easily. Make sure you get your ATP unrestricted once you get the 1500 (http://www.sheppardair.com/download/Removing_ATP_Restriction.pdf).

From there, you're in a situation where the more experience you get, the more attractive you're going to be. It is an incremental thing, and as rickair7777 notes, somewhere in the 2-3000 hour range is probably the sweet spot. Once you're on the line, and if you're working at a properly-staffed regional, figure on about 80 hours per month. You can do more than that by picking up trips on your days off. So, maybe 600-800 hours your first year (since training will soak up a few months out of that year) and 800-900 your second year (again, depending on how hard you want to work and how hard your airline wants to work you).

You don't "need" more PIC time to get to a major airline job, but it will certainly help. If you don't have the job you want when your number comes up to bid for Captain at the regionals, do it -- it will look good on your app, and every additional hour of TPIC will make your application just that much more likely to be called. Upgrade times will vary regional-to-regional, and the current timeline may not be the same timeline when it is your turn up at bat.

Bottom line, I'd be financially and emotionally prepared for 1-3 years at the regionals.

Bruh
04-03-2018, 04:36 AM
As was mentioned, you need PIC time. What's your plan for that? Go fly white jets, plenty of flight time to be had there!:cool:

You’re right, I definitely do. Still looking at all my options. An Envoy pilot recruiter said I’d be in the running for a direct-entry captain. As for vanilla jets, I’m not willing to spend any extra time in the AF beyond my UPT commitment.

Hacker15e
04-03-2018, 05:00 AM
An Envoy pilot recruiter said I’d be in the running for a direct-entry captain.

I'd be careful about going directly in as a Captain straight from the military.

Yes, sounds good....better pay, getting PIC right from the start.

However, there are risks going this route that you should mind, especially the ones that involve checkride busts or FAA violations.

121 flying isn't particularly difficult, but it is *different* than military flying. Even for someone who is current, and well attuned to the regulatory differences, there is a lot to be learned about 121 flying as an FO. To be sure, most of that learning is done after a short couple months of flying the line, but that learning curve exists none the less. As an FO, you are learning the ropes while another guy's name is at the bottom of the flight release.

Jumping right in to the Captain's seat without any background in 121 flying, and even jumping into Captain training without being a current and proficient pilot, will be a challenge that is probably not worth the risk. You don't want to also add a chackride pink slip to that AirlineApps instead of a new type rating.

Bruh
04-03-2018, 05:03 AM
The question of "how long do I have to be at the regionals" is the tough one to answer as it depends highly on which regional you go to ... and which major you want to end up with (especially those that have a 1000-hour PIC desired hurdle).

Thanks for the detailed response and Sheppard tip. I agree and think the regionals are going to be the best option for me to get competitive for the majors. At this stage I think AA is where I would like to be eventually based on their hubs and multiple international routes.

You don't "need" more PIC time to get to a major airline job, but it will certainly help. If you don't have the job you want when your number comes up to bid for Captain at the regionals, do it -- it will look good on your app, and every additional hour of TPIC will make your application just that much more likely to be called ... Bottom line, I'd be financially and emotionally prepared for 1-3 years at the regionals.

Good point, I’ll try to pick a regional I can live with for several years.

Bruh
04-03-2018, 05:17 AM
I'd be careful about going directly in as a Captain straight from the military ... Jumping right in to the Captain's seat without any background in 121 flying, and even jumping into Captain training without being a current and proficient pilot, will be a challenge that is probably not worth the risk.

That’s a good point - thanx!

Bruh
04-03-2018, 05:23 AM
See PM this date.

Wealth of good information - thanx amigo! :)

rickair7777
04-03-2018, 06:34 AM
I'd be careful about going directly in as a Captain straight from the military.

Yes, sounds good....better pay, getting PIC right from the start.

However, there are risks going this route that you should mind, especially the ones that involve checkride busts or FAA violations.

121 flying isn't particularly difficult, but it is *different* than military flying. Even for someone who is current, and well attuned to the regulatory differences, there is a lot to be learned about 121 flying as an FO. To be sure, most of that learning is done after a short couple months of flying the line, but that learning curve exists none the less. As an FO, you are learning the ropes while another guy's name is at the bottom of the flight release.

Jumping right in to the Captain's seat without any background in 121 flying, and even jumping into Captain training without being a current and proficient pilot, will be a challenge that is probably not worth the risk. You don't want to also add a chackride pink slip to that AirlineApps instead of a new type rating.

x2.

At the very least spend six months in the right seat first. Otherwise you'll be a very junior CA in a very junior base, and probably flying with new-hire FO's... you could violated (or worse) really quickly, which would not help your progress to majors.

Blackhawk
04-03-2018, 07:12 AM
Yeah you're low time. Regionals to build time, especially if you're not current, which is what it sounds like. Unfortunately its SIC time, but good experience.
As was mentioned, you need PIC time. What's your plan for that? Go fly white jets, plenty of flight time to be had there!:cool:

PIC time does not seem to be the deal breaker it used to be except at SWA. Majors are hiring many FO's with zero TPIC while bypassing high time captains. It's a very different hiring world.
The only word of caution to add about a quick regional upgrade. Some of the places with quick upgrades are known for throwing captains under the bus if you make a mistake. As pointed out, 121 flying is easy but there are some pitfalls you can make especially if you get complacent.
Finally, I think most airlines don't care about "other" time unless maybe that's your student time.

AirBear
04-03-2018, 08:08 AM
I went USAF (C-130's) to a major airline, but then that was 1989 and we didn't have drones LOL. Good thing because a nerd like me would have been all over that.

I'd look for a regional with guaranteed move to a major after X number of years. Or at least a guaranteed interview. However a lot will depend on where you want to live, and how willing you are to commute.

Another option is cargo and charter operators. Their pay is way less than the majors, but usually better than regionals. Some allow Home basing. And your international C-17 experience will be a big plus. Also you're flying mostly the same equipment the major's fly. My employer NetJets has lost several pilots to Kalitta, Atlas, ATI, etc. and those guys had no heavy time and little to none international experience. Check out those employer's sections on APC's forums to see what it looks like.

Good luck!

Bruh
04-03-2018, 09:56 AM
I went USAF (C-130's) to a major airline, but then that was 1989 and we didn't have drones LOL. Good thing because a nerd like me would have been all over that!

I have thoroughly enjoyed my time in RPAs and will probably be keeping a footprint in the ANG as a side hustle while doing the airlines.

I'd look for a regional with guaranteed move to a major after X number of years. Or at least a guaranteed interview. However a lot will depend on where you want to live, and how willing you are to commute.

That approach appeals to me the most. I'd preferably like to live and domicile in Texas and eventually fly internationally with AA. From what I've gathered, Envoy offers a decent flow-through program to American in the event I wasn't picked up earlier. I'm willing to commute, but would like to keep that kind of rigmarole to a minimum.

Another option is cargo and charter operators. Their pay is way less than the majors, but usually better than regionals. Some allow Home basing. And your international C-17 experience will be a big plus. Also you're flying mostly the same equipment the major's fly ... Check out those employer's sections on APC's forums to see what it looks like.

Good idea - I hadn't considered cargo, but I'll look into that, especially if they do a lot of international flying. I remember seeing Kalitta and Atlas at many of the down range locations we used to frequent in the C-17. Ultimately, I'm not that picky about what route I take to get to the majors. Thanx for your time and input!

Bruh
04-03-2018, 10:11 AM
At the very least spend six months in the right seat first. Otherwise you'll be a very junior CA in a very junior base, and probably flying with new-hire FO's... you could violated (or worse) really quickly, which would not help your progress to majors.

That's a great point and glad you and Hacker15e steered me clear of that potential land mine.

Bruh
04-03-2018, 10:25 AM
PIC time does not seem to be the deal breaker it used to be except at SWA. Majors are hiring many FO's with zero TPIC while bypassing high time captains. It's a very different hiring world. The only word of caution to add about a quick regional upgrade. Some of the places with quick upgrades are known for throwing captains under the bus if you make a mistake. As pointed out, 121 flying is easy but there are some pitfalls you can make especially if you get complacent.

All of this is encouraging and good news. Whereas I initially thought I didn't stand a chance of making a career out of the airlines, it now seems attainable. Why might a major hire an FO with zero TPIC over a high-time CA?

Blackhawk
04-03-2018, 10:51 AM
All of this is encouraging and good news. Whereas I initially thought I didn't stand a chance of making a career out of the airlines, it now seems attainable. Why might a major hire an FO with zero TPIC over a high-time CA?

The official word is that they find high time captains who have been in the same seat for a long time to not be trainable and have issues. Of course there are also problems with millennials doing things like operating their cell phones during cruise so I think you can find anecdotes about every spectrum of the hiring pool having issues.

Personally I think much of the app scoring now is set up by millennials so it naturally screens out those who are older except for those with military fixed wing time. Yes, everyone will say "I know a guy...", but I'm talking general statistics not isolated ones and twos.

Whatever the reasons, I have had about 8 FO's in the past 2 years get hired by a major with zero TPIC, but I have not heard of any high time captains (more than about 9,000 TT), except CP's and LCA's even getting interviews. Some will go to a ULCC and then get the call for an interview soon after getting a new type.

Otterbox
04-03-2018, 10:54 AM
is OP for real ? these are Airline 101 posts his mil buddies in his network should all be able to answer

Not a lot of RPA guys know much about airlines now.. until a few years ago none had any future flying off AD if they weren’t flight current.

Otterbox
04-03-2018, 11:03 AM
You’re right, I definitely do. Still looking at all my options. An Envoy pilot recruiter said I’d be in the running for a direct-entry captain. As for vanilla jets, I’m not willing to spend any extra time in the AF beyond my UPT commitment.

That’s false... either they’re blowing smoke to lure you in with a bait and switch or the recruiter has no idea what they’re talking about... which is surprising because the recruiters who are pilots are usually pretty sharp.

You need 1000 121 SIC time to upgrade to Captain... only 500 of which can be credited by using mil PIC in qualifying aircraft. You’re about 12 months from being an RJ captain on the low end thanks to initial training, reserve time, getting to the required minimums and upgrade training.

BrownDoubles
04-03-2018, 01:10 PM
That’s false... either they’re blowing smoke to lure you in with a bait and switch or the recruiter has no idea what they’re talking about... which is surprising because the recruiters who are pilots are usually pretty sharp.

You need 1000 121 SIC time to upgrade to Captain... only 500 of which can be credited by using mil PIC in qualifying aircraft. You’re about 12 months from being an RJ captain on the low end thanks to initial training, reserve time, getting to the required minimums and upgrade training.

Great post... you beat me to it!!! Do some research on this and (I would suggest) anything else any regional airline recruiter tries to sell you. I doubt they have malicious intent they are just undertrained recruiters trying to fill seats.

Sliceback
04-03-2018, 02:26 PM
The hiring process at AA was setup by, and run by, people in their 50’s. Some might have been 60. Maybe some mid to late 40’s involved now.

I’d guess the other Big 3/4 are the same.

Sliceback
04-03-2018, 02:30 PM
Bruh - you’ve got airline career possibilities. Make steady, and well reasoned, decisions and progress. After being a drone guy for years attempting to go right into a 121 upgrade program, when you have no 121 experience and havn’t flown professionally for years, is a high risk move. The risk being a training bust. The airlines value 121 experience and especially 121 PIC experience. Show them that you’re back in the saddle and progressing as expected vs making risky training or job decisions.

Good luck.

Blackhawk
04-03-2018, 02:38 PM
The hiring process at AA was setup by, and run by, people in their 50’s. Some might have been 60. Maybe some mid to late 40’s involved now.

I’d guess the other Big 3/4 are the same.
Well, much of the hiring seems geared toward those between the ages of 25-35 unless you have military FW time.

Bruh
04-03-2018, 04:33 PM
The official word is that they find high time captains who have been in the same seat for a long time to not be trainable and have issues ... Whatever the reasons, I have had about 8 FO's in the past 2 years get hired by a major with zero TPIC, but I have not heard of any high time captains (more than about 9,000 TT) ... Some will go to a ULCC and then get the call for an interview soon after getting a new type.

Man that's peculiar and not intuitive. The airline business is a strange beast.

Bruh
04-03-2018, 04:43 PM
That’s false... either they’re blowing smoke to lure you in with a bait and switch or the recruiter has no idea what they’re talking about... You need 1000 121 SIC time to upgrade to Captain... only 500 of which can be credited by using mil PIC in qualifying aircraft. You’re about 12 months from being an RJ captain on the low end thanks to initial training, reserve time, getting to the required minimums and upgrade training.

I just finished reading a thread in the Envoy forum talking about the direct-entry captain gig and it seems pretty dismal.

Thanks for the validation on the 1000 hours of 121 SIC. A year or more to meet that threshold seems reasonable and attainable.

Otterbox
04-03-2018, 04:45 PM
Man that's peculiar and not intuitive. The airline business is a strange beast.

Consensus seems to be in this current hiring environment is any longer than 5 years since your last type/upgrade etc. that you’re “stale” and an increased training risk for failure.

Bruh
04-03-2018, 04:51 PM
Do some research on this and (I would suggest) anything else any regional airline recruiter tries to sell you. I doubt they have malicious intent they are just undertrained recruiters trying to fill seats.

Nice. Guess I'll have to read the fine print on everything just like with big brother Air Force. Hopefully regional flying will be as fun and rewarding as it looks.

Sliceback
04-03-2018, 04:52 PM
Well, much of the hiring seems geared toward those between the ages of 25-35 unless you have military FW time.

The average age is right at 36. Below 30 is the exception.

Bruh
04-03-2018, 04:53 PM
The hiring process at AA was setup by, and run by, people in their 50’s. Some might have been 60. Maybe some mid to late 40’s involved now.

Just like the DoD.
#Innovation

Bruh
04-03-2018, 05:05 PM
Bruh - you’ve got airline career possibilities. Make steady, and well reasoned, decisions and progress. After being a drone guy for years attempting to go right into a 121 upgrade program, when you have no 121 experience and havn’t flown professionally for years, is a high risk move.

You're absolutely right - riskier than I was initially willing to believe. After being in the demanding world of the C-17 I sort of felt like "Hey, how hard can it be?" But you're definitely right. I can't be going into this cold.

I'm going to start flying locally to get fresh on IFR procedures and I'll probably get a biennial flight review for good measure. There's a DA-40 at the base aero club that has a glass cockpit and G1000.

The risk being a training bust. The airlines value 121 experience and especially 121 PIC experience. Show them that you’re back in the saddle and progressing as expected vs making risky training or job decisions. Good luck.

Is a training bust basically a hooked ride or more like failing out of airline IQT?

Bruh
04-03-2018, 05:11 PM
Consensus seems to be in this current hiring environment is any longer than 5 years since your last type/upgrade etc. that you’re “stale” and an increased training risk for failure.

I'll buy that. Looks like I have my work cut out for me. First step is to start flying again and get back in the game.

Blackhawk
04-03-2018, 05:27 PM
The average age is right at 36. Below 30 is the exception.

... which includes military FW who are probably quite a bit older. So again, that would be about right for those coming from a regional being in the 25-35 range, maybe a little older but not much. If you are a regional pilot older than about 40 with over 10,000 hours, good luck.

rickair7777
04-03-2018, 06:30 PM
You're absolutely right - riskier than I was initially willing to believe. After being in the demanding world of the C-17 I sort of felt like "Hey, how hard can it be?" But you're definitely right. I can't be going into this cold.

I'm going to start flying locally to get fresh on IFR procedures and I'll probably get a biennial flight review for good measure. There's a DA-40 at the base aero club that has a glass cockpit and G1000.



Is a training bust basically a hooked ride or more like failing out of airline IQT?

Either. Busting a ride and then recovering would be much better than flunking out, but it would still set your progress back by X number of years with the best majors. Checking that box will lower your app score before a human even knows you exist.

gollum
04-03-2018, 08:23 PM
Have you considered Kalitta? Good money ($106/ hr first year FO pay, 16 on/14off schedule, 121 time, and upgrades are hitting 19 months right now.)

Sliceback
04-04-2018, 09:02 AM
Bruh - re: “hooked ride”. There are no ‘training rides’ in the airplane in the 121 world. The actual training is all done in the sim. And you typically don’t ‘hook’ a training sim. You move in to the next sim. At the end of the scheduled sim training you get “you need an extra sim.” That is not a bust. The busts come when you’re being evaluated.

I heard (2014-2015) that 4% of AA new hires got one extra training sim and 6% got two sims. I’ve done approx 200 sims at AA and have yet to see a bust. Sub-standard performance? Absolutely. The next step was either the next scheduled simulator or if it was the end of the simulator training phase, with a check ride next, you heard “let’s get you another sim.” Sub standard performance on a check ride? That’s a bust.

The training is done by simP’s (type rated in aircraft, former pro pilots, but not current line pilots) and then regular CKA. At the end of training you get two check rides given by CKA ‘designees’, CKA authorized by the FAA to give rating rides. Those are the rides you can bust. No training, it’s an evaluation. In the debrief the designee can provide guidance/training advice.

Then you advance to IOE/LOE (initial or line operating experience). Same meaning, the name changes with companies or different training programs. You get 25-40 hrs of flying with one, or several, CKA. Typically they ‘sign you off’ and less frequently they keep you in the IOE/LOE training phase. Bring retained in the IOE/LOE phase isn’t a bust.

So actually busts can be less likely which might be why 121 training busts are something a new employer would like to know about.

Bruh
04-04-2018, 02:04 PM
Have you considered Kalitta? Good money ($106/ hr first year FO pay, 16 on/14off schedule, 121 time, and upgrades are hitting 19 months right now.)

Thanx - I checked out Kalitta based on AirBear's recommendation. Kalitta is definitely one of my top options. They have a very competitive payscale and fly 767/747s, which I'd love to fly. Looks like they fly to a lot of the same spots we used to in the C-17 as well.

Bruh
04-04-2018, 02:15 PM
Bruh - re: “hooked ride”. There are no ‘training rides’ in the airplane in the 121 world. The actual training is all done in the sim. And you typically don’t ‘hook’ a training sim. You move in to the next sim. At the end of the scheduled sim training you get “you need an extra sim.” That is not a bust. The busts come when you’re being evaluated.

I heard (2014-2015) that 4% of AA new hires got one extra training sim and 6% got two sims. I’ve done approx 200 sims at AA and have yet to see a bust. Sub-standard performance? Absolutely. The next step was either the next scheduled simulator or if it was the end of the simulator training phase, with a check ride next, you heard “let’s get you another sim.” Sub standard performance on a check ride? That’s a bust.

The training is done by simP’s (type rated in aircraft, former pro pilots, but not current line pilots) and then regular CKA. At the end of training you get two check rides given by CKA ‘designees’, CKA authorized by the FAA to give rating rides. Those are the rides you can bust. No training, it’s an evaluation. In the debrief the designee can provide guidance/training advice.

Then you advance to IOE/LOE (initial or line operating experience). Same meaning, the name changes with companies or different training programs. You get 25-40 hrs of flying with one, or several, CKA. Typically they ‘sign you off’ and less frequently they keep you in the IOE/LOE training phase. Bring retained in the IOE/LOE phase isn’t a bust.

So actually busts can be less likely which might be why 121 training busts are something a new employer would like to know about.

Thanx for the clarification. I was beginning to wonder how a 121 checkride could possibly be worse than my annual AC check in the C-17, which required an assault landing and precise air refueling rendezvous, in addition to other typical requisite maneuvers.

So no retribution for an additional training ride - that seems nice. Airline training sounds like a different mentality. Do you feel the training course is sufficient, or is it pretty challenging and condensed?

rickair7777
04-04-2018, 02:32 PM
So no retribution for an additional training ride - that seems nice. Airline training sounds like a different mentality. Do you feel the training course is sufficient, or is it pretty challenging and condensed?


Widely variable, depending on airline and equipment.

Many regionals are doing more spoon-feeding these days, since that's the only way they can get throughput. Assume it will be work though, especially the first 121 event.

Sliceback
04-04-2018, 05:48 PM
There might be a bust during sims prior to an extra sim, or because you need extra time. Training standards/programs vary between companies.

Training is busy. It’s not hard, it’s just busy. And there’s learning going on so it’s not a cake walk. It’s like UPT all over again BUT you’re an experienced pilot. In your case a rusty one. For most guys, except for food and sleep, and maybe a workout, for the other time it’s 100% class, studying, reading, or practicing.

Guys with 10,000 hrs in type have busted their upgrades. “I didn’t take it seriously enough. It was humbling.” And learning can be funny(curious, not haha), a guy with four type ratings struggling with his fifth one. Like the stock market past performance doesn’t guarantee future performance.

Five weeks after opening your new aircraft manual you’re flying the line operationally. It’s a quicker pace than RTU. It’s not uncommon to be thinking “I’m not ready” a day or two before your oral or sim check.

Adjustment to FMC use, variety of approach types, SID’s, STAR’s, taxi clearances, short turns, etc are common areas mentioned as ‘diffetent’ or new to prior military guys.

AirBear
04-04-2018, 06:12 PM
The airlines are getting away from the "Build the Jet" mentality. When I did A320 Initial at US Airways in the late 90's it was a whole new ballgame. Mostly Computer Based Training, the program would back up and show you why your answer was wrong. Very few hard numbers to memorize. In the early 90's our 727 fleet had 4 different engine models, and we had to memorize the EGT and other limits for all 4. PITA.

By the time I did Embraer Phenom 300 Initial at Flight Safety around 2014, classroom was like playing Microsoft Flight Simulator all day. They'd throw in a malfunction and pause the flight and then explain about the system involved while the system was displayed on the MFD. Great way to learn the Jet.

I had a friend at USAir who got furloughed and went to JAL Cargo flying DC-10's I think. In school they had to memorize what the 27 layers of the windshield were made of. Oriental Carriers seem to still have the "build the jet" model, although my info is a bit dated.

When you get to ground school take a roll of Duct Tape with you. Because there's always one A-hole who wants to know how to build the jet. Apply Duct Tape liberally at next break :D

Blackhawk
04-05-2018, 07:04 AM
The airlines are getting away from the "Build the Jet" mentality. When I did A320 Initial at US Airways in the late 90's it was a whole new ballgame. Mostly Computer Based Training, the program would back up and show you why your answer was wrong. Very few hard numbers to memorize. In the early 90's our 727 fleet had 4 different engine models, and we had to memorize the EGT and other limits for all 4. PITA.

By the time I did Embraer Phenom 300 Initial at Flight Safety around 2014, classroom was like playing Microsoft Flight Simulator all day. They'd throw in a malfunction and pause the flight and then explain about the system involved while the system was displayed on the MFD. Great way to learn the Jet.

I had a friend at USAir who got furloughed and went to JAL Cargo flying DC-10's I think. In school they had to memorize what the 27 layers of the windshield were made of. Oriental Carriers seem to still have the "build the jet" model, although my info is a bit dated.

When you get to ground school take a roll of Duct Tape with you. Because there's always one A-hole who wants to know how to build the jet. Apply Duct Tape liberally at next break :D

Or keeps saying, "At/In the _______ (fill in the service or airline), we did it this way." Or, "On the _______ (fill in the airframe), it was like this." No one cares.

Bruh
04-06-2018, 12:59 PM
Five weeks after opening your new aircraft manual you’re flying the line operationally. It’s a quicker pace than RTU. It’s not uncommon to be thinking “I’m not ready” a day or two before your oral or sim check.

Yikes - talk about sink or swim. I guess that's what efficiency looks like when yer runnin' a business.

Bruh
04-06-2018, 01:29 PM
The airlines are getting away from the "Build the Jet" mentality ... By the time I did Embraer Phenom 300 Initial at Flight Safety around 2014, classroom was like playing Microsoft Flight Simulator all day. They'd throw in a malfunction and pause the flight and then explain about the system involved while the system was displayed on the MFD. Great way to learn the Jet.

It's about time. I agree - it sounds like very effective training.

When you get to ground school take a roll of Duct Tape with you. Because there's always one A-hole who wants to know how to build the jet. Apply Duct Tape liberally at next break :D

Ha ha - yeah, no kidding.

bizzlepilot
04-07-2018, 01:08 PM
Hi,
I’m approaching the end of my Air Force pilot commitment and looking for intelligent/candid advice as I prepare to embark on a career in the airlines where my goal is to get to the majors. I was an aircraft commander in C-17 where I accrued a total of 1,350 hours (653 PIC, 464 SIC, 233 OTH).

1. Due to my low hours in the C-17, I imagine I will have to fly for the regionals first to build 121 PIC time. If I perform well, how long would it realistically take to build enough quality time to get the majors? How many hours until someone like me would be considered competitive?

2. Do Air Force pilots with global mobility experience (i.e. C-17) have any sort of advantage in getting to the majors?

3. What is the most realistic way for me to get to the majors and what, in your experience, might that roadmap/timeline look like?

Thanx :cool:
Bruh

Brush welcome to the party. I was a 17 guy as well who departed AD for RPAs in the ANG. I am currently in the UAL pool waiting for my training date. Hit me up if you have any questions. I've got a few buds who have done the exact same thing as me and you, and are at regionals and a couple of majors.

herbie3000
04-08-2018, 11:18 AM
Hi
I am military and need to get 50hrs multi time and live near DC. Anyone in the same boat and like to share multi costs to reach 50hrs or can anyone recommend options.
I meet all other ATP requirements.
Thanks

Bruh
04-08-2018, 01:30 PM
Brush welcome to the party. I was a 17 guy as well who departed AD for RPAs in the ANG. I am currently in the UAL pool waiting for my training date. Hit me up if you have any questions. I've got a few buds who have done the exact same thing as me and you, and are at regionals and a couple of majors.

Thanx Bizzle!



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