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View Full Version : 47 787ís Coming


Al Czervik
04-06-2018, 01:22 PM
47 Boeing 787ís ordered. Sounds like a 330/767/350 replacement.


Boogerface
04-06-2018, 01:43 PM
47 Boeing 787ís ordered. Sounds like a 330/767/350 replacement.
Good choice. Now, if they could only order some comfortable seats to go with them, they'd have a pretty decent product.

FLPS30GRDWN
04-06-2018, 02:05 PM
47 Boeing 787ís ordered. Sounds like a 330/767/350 replacement.



Whatís your source?


N10DJ
04-06-2018, 02:08 PM
Whatís your source?

Boeing posted it on their website and then immediately took it down... prematurely announced. But yea it did say 47 787's

Lugar
04-06-2018, 02:16 PM
Whatís your source?

http://news.aa.com/press-releases/press-release-details/2018/American-Airlines-Expands-Boeing-787-Fleet/default.aspx

TCASTESTOK
04-06-2018, 03:29 PM
They CANCELLED the A350 order

TallFlyer
04-06-2018, 04:25 PM
From another article:

Boeing says the order today is a new deal from American and not an exercise of the carrier's options for 58 787s.

mainlineAF
04-06-2018, 04:49 PM
From another article:



Once all are delivered the press release on aa pilots said there will be 89 787s.

sumwherelse
04-06-2018, 05:05 PM
Once all are delivered the press release on aa pilots said there will be 89 787s.

I donít see this?

Laker24
04-06-2018, 05:11 PM
47 Boeing 787ís ordered. Sounds like a 330/767/350 replacement.

Itís advertised as a 772/330/767 replacement. The only problem is we have 102 of the above aircraft and we just ordered 47 787s as a replacement. Numbers donít seem to add up.

PRS Guitars
04-06-2018, 05:29 PM
It’s advertised as a 772/330/767 replacement. The only problem is we have 102 of the above aircraft and we just ordered 47 787s as a replacement. Numbers don’t seem to add up.

The first 22 will start to arrive in 2020 and are -8s to replace the 767. The next 25 don’t start arrive until 2023 and are to replace the 330-s and some older 777. A lot could happen by then. Glad to see the 8’s replace 767’s though, group 3 for 4.

Edit:
330-300’s which were all ready on the chopping block.
Also they differed 40 737’s

Laker24
04-06-2018, 05:32 PM
Yeah but we are replacing 31 767s with 22 787s. Then we are replacing 47 772s and 24 330s with 25 787-9s. Even if we keep half the 777-200ERs and all of the 330s we are still looking at major shrinkage. Hopefully there is a major Part B to this order.

Maybe those 55 options

Floobs
04-06-2018, 05:40 PM
23 767 + 23 330 = 46
So these 47 I think will be to replace all the 330s and the 767s.

N10DJ
04-06-2018, 05:43 PM
Guys! Go read the company letter lol. It’s replacing a330-300’s (we only have 9) and SOME OF the oldest 777-200’s

It never mentions replacing all 772s and 333s. It still amounts to an overall loss when you throw in 767-300 but there isn’t a full retirement schedule for the 76’s and for all we know they could be holding out on that 797 that could be hitting the streets the same time we get our last 789. Way to early to be worried.

Cheddar
04-06-2018, 06:11 PM
Several Ďsourcesí say weíre very interested in the -10, but want to see how it performs. The -10 is a 772 replacement. We have plenty of options for future 787ís at probably very good terms.

As for the deferred MAXís, I wonder if we will take more 321NEOís to ease the pain inflicted on the folks in Toulouse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Laker24
04-06-2018, 06:24 PM
Guys! Go read the company letter lol. Itís replacing a330-300ís (we only have 9) and SOME OF the oldest 777-200ís

It never mentions replacing all 772s and 333s. It still amounts to an overall loss when you throw in 767-300 but there isnít a full retirement schedule for the 76ís and for all we know they could be holding out on that 797 that could be hitting the streets the same time we get our last 789. Way to early to be worried.

Didnít see that. Good news!

Al Czervik
04-06-2018, 06:25 PM
As for the deferred MAXís, I wonder if we will take more 321NEOís to ease the pain inflicted on the folks in Toulouse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For the love of god I hope so!

sumwherelse
04-06-2018, 08:04 PM
Itís replacing ďolderĒ 772. And there are additional options as well included in the order. Nothing about this is bad!

mainlineAF
04-07-2018, 06:01 AM
Itís replacing ďolderĒ 772. And there are additional options as well included in the order. Nothing about this is bad!



Ya but this is the internet. Everything sucks!

Saabs
04-07-2018, 06:19 AM
Itís replacing ďolderĒ 772. And there are additional options as well included in the order. Nothing about this is bad!

Itís only not bad if the 737s that they said they were parking less than a month ago stick around longer. That means at least 40 of them.

Yes I saw the oasis project on the video. They didnít say how many get oasis.

Al Czervik
04-07-2018, 06:38 AM
I saw the oasis project.

Didnít see this. You have a link?

Name User
04-07-2018, 06:52 AM
Net loss of what, some 60 something airplanes (after being down over 50 from the merger)? If not more? First thought that came to my mind was the company is predicting a recession right around the corner.

JetBlue and SWA continue to expand with growing load factor showing they are able to fill the seats.

I got a kick out of Doug and his "business model". I would love to point out in a crew news that SWA has half the airplanes AAG has yet makes almost as much money. Maybe his favored "business model" is crap and we need a new one?

sumwherelse
04-07-2018, 06:53 AM
How is this a net loss of 60??

Saabs
04-07-2018, 06:53 AM
Didnít see this. You have a link?

Video on Jetnet

TallFlyer
04-07-2018, 07:11 AM
Net loss of what, some 60 something airplanes (after being down over 50 from the merger)? If not more? First thought that came to my mind was the company is predicting a recession right around the corner.

JetBlue and SWA continue to expand with growing load factor showing they are able to fill the seats.

I got a kick out of Doug and his "business model". I would love to point out in a crew news that SWA has half the airplanes AAG has yet makes almost as much money. Maybe his favored "business model" is crap and we need a new one?
707 is half of 951? Common core much?

And AAGs revenue in 2017 was twice was SWAs was.

SWA also cherry pics profitable routes and doesn't fly into the smaller airports that the regionals do.

(Wikipedia Numbers)

Name User
04-07-2018, 07:41 AM
707 is half of 951? Common core much?

And AAGs revenue in 2017 was twice was SWAs was.

SWA also cherry pics profitable routes and doesn't fly into the smaller airports that the regionals do.

(Wikipedia Numbers)

AAG currently has 1544 aircraft in 2018 according to the fleet plan on the IR site.

By 2020 we will lose an additional 18, 15 of them mainline, not including the just announced reduction. SWA is growing at 5%+ per year, maybe we should start cherry picking these same routes.

SWA's model is superior which was my point. Less than half the planes, half the employees, growing not shrinking, yet almost the same net income? Maybe our business model needs a rework.

TallFlyer
04-07-2018, 08:38 AM
AAG currently has 1544 aircraft in 2018 according to the fleet plan on the IR site.
As we're sometimes told in real life, regionals don't count.

SWA's model is superior which was my point. Less than half the planes, half the employees, growing not shrinking, yet almost the same net income? Maybe our business model needs a rework.
How many places in Europe, Asia, or South America does SWA serve? How many widebodies? How many places in fly over country do they serve? How do I get from Fayettville, AR, to Fayetteville, NC on them? Or Ontario, CA to anywhere in province of Ontario? Or Melbourne, FL, to Melbourne, AUS?

It doesn't take much to see the differences in business models and customer bases. There are more similarities between SWA and Allegiant than there are SWA and AA. If you would rather work for an airline that's half the size (by your definition) and makes more money, knock yourself out. Me, I'd like to retire off of those 787s we're ordering.

MarineGrunt
04-07-2018, 09:37 AM
767s being replaced with GIV aircraft and some think this is bad news... some of you guys amaze me at times... :rolleyes:

Floobs
04-07-2018, 10:12 AM
Itís only not bad if the 737s that they said they were parking less than a month ago stick around longer. That means at least 40 of them.

Yes I saw the oasis project on the video. They didnít say how many get oasis.

What is the Oasis project?

mainlineAF
04-07-2018, 10:24 AM
Net loss of what, some 60 something airplanes (after being down over 50 from the merger)? If not more? First thought that came to my mind was the company is predicting a recession right around the corner.

JetBlue and SWA continue to expand with growing load factor showing they are able to fill the seats.

I got a kick out of Doug and his "business model". I would love to point out in a crew news that SWA has half the airplanes AAG has yet makes almost as much money. Maybe his favored "business model" is crap and we need a new one?



Mainline is losing 60 airplanes?

sumwherelse
04-07-2018, 10:30 AM
Mainline is losing 60 airplanes?

No. People failed math and make broad assumptions.

Saabs
04-07-2018, 12:20 PM
What is the Oasis project?

All I know is whatís on video in jetnet. So I donít know anything you donít.

Name User
04-07-2018, 12:50 PM
As we're sometimes told in real life, regionals don't count.


How many places in Europe, Asia, or South America does SWA serve? How many widebodies? How many places in fly over country do they serve? How do I get from Fayettville, AR, to Fayetteville, NC on them? Or Ontario, CA to anywhere in province of Ontario? Or Melbourne, FL, to Melbourne, AUS?

It doesn't take much to see the differences in business models and customer bases. There are more similarities between SWA and Allegiant than there are SWA and AA. If you would rather work for an airline that's half the size (by your definition) and makes more money, knock yourself out. Me, I'd like to retire off of those 787s we're ordering.

Well you can disagree if you want whether regionals count or not but the fact is AAG bought those airplanes and they are flown in our system with AA flight numbers, they use our gates, and they utilize our slots. So I think most would disagree.

At one time you could do all that on Pan Am, TWA, etc.

Wouldn't you rather work at a company that has a sustainable business model? What guarantee is there that you will retire at AA? Eventually SWA will grow big enough where they will develop their own network.

Name User
04-07-2018, 12:51 PM
Mainline is losing 60 airplanes?

Fleet plan is to lose 15 between now and 2020. However they did plan on some growth after that but that was before the loss of 40 additional 737's and an as yet to be determined loss of 777-200's.

I welcome these 787s but it's not all rainbows and lollipops.

TallFlyer
04-07-2018, 12:56 PM
Wouldn't you rather work at a company that has a sustainable business model? What guarantee is there that you will retire at AA? Eventually SWA will grow big enough where they will develop their own network.
Well, our Fearless Leader has gone on record that we'll never lose money again, so we'll see. That said, if SWA wants to grow to have the same network that AA does, they'll incur all the costs associated as well. Not every airline can hold itself to one fleet type and cherry pick only the very profitable routes.

And I'm pretty sure Pan Am never stopped much in flyover country, at least not before the National acquisition.

mainlineAF
04-07-2018, 12:57 PM
Fleet plan is to lose 15 between now and 2020. However they did plan on some growt after that but that was before the loss of 40 additional 737's and an as yet to be determined loss of 777-200's.

I welcome these 787s but it's not all rainbows and lollipops.



Where do you see itís a loss of 40 planes? Yea they deferred 40 Maxís but theyíre still taking a bunch of NEOs/MAXs in the same timeframe. Everything i read said it was to better align with narrowbody retirements.

They could keep some 75s/73s/old airbusí longer or alter delivery schedules. That would easily explain pushing out 40 airplanes. Just assuming weíre losing 40 airplanes without seeing the big picture or having any evidence is pretty pessimistic.

You may be right. But i wouldnít jump to any conclusion.

Name User
04-07-2018, 01:02 PM
Where do you see it’s a loss of 40 planes? Yea they deferred 40 Max’s but they’re still taking a bunch of NEOs/MAXs in the same timeframe. Everything i read said it was to better align with narrowbody retirements.

They could keep some 75s/73s/old airbus’ longer or alter delivery schedules. That would easily explain pushing out 40 airplanes. Just assuming we’re losing 40 airplanes without seeing the big picture or having any evidence is pretty pessimistic.

You may be right. But i wouldn’t jump to any conclusion.

We'll know soon enough on the next Crew News, I'm sure it will get asked.

Doug is doing the right thing by constricting ASMs but others are taking advantage (United!). You can't win a war in which you're only as good as your dumbest competitor...

MarineGrunt
04-07-2018, 01:19 PM
We'll know soon enough on the next Crew News, I'm sure it will get asked.

Doug is doing the right thing by constricting ASMs but others are taking advantage (United!). You can't win a war in which you're only as good as your dumbest competitor...

Or, you could just read the statement and you will see that it refers to nothing about losing 40 planes and also explains the reason for their deferral... but donít let that take you away from projecting doom and gloom...

Regarding narrowbody aircraft, we are deferring delivery on 40 B737 MAX aircraft scheduled to arrive between 2020 and 2022 to 2025/26. We still have our order for 100 B737 MAXes on the books, weíll just be getting them a little later to avoid having more narrowbodies than we need arriving in such a tight timeframe.

Name User
04-07-2018, 02:33 PM
Or, you could just read the statement and you will see that it refers to nothing about losing 40 planes and also explains the reason for their deferral... but don’t let that take you away from projecting doom and gloom...

I'll have to dig up a fleet plan that I saw with those orders...they were to replace retiring aircraft. Since they are pushing those airplanes out five years it will allow them to retire and not replace right away. Nothing in that announcement touches on that - they are avoiding it on purpose IMO.

That is unless they plan on keeping older airplanes for longer, they haven't said they will or won't, and we won't know until someone asks or they publish a revised fleet plan with the new announcements baked in.

Saabs
04-07-2018, 02:55 PM
I'll have to dig up a fleet plan that I saw with those orders...they were to replace retiring aircraft. Since they are pushing those airplanes out five years it will allow them to retire and not replace right away. Nothing in that announcement touches on that - they are avoiding it on purpose IMO.

That is unless they plan on keeping older airplanes for longer, they haven't said they will or won't, and we won't know until someone asks or they publish a revised fleet plan with the new announcements baked in.
They did address older planes and oasis in the video.

Floobs
04-07-2018, 04:28 PM
They should cancel the max and get more airbuses.

Al Czervik
04-07-2018, 04:59 PM
They did address older planes and oasis in the video.

Tell us more about oasis.

Saabs
04-07-2018, 06:14 PM
Tell us more about oasis.

All I know is what you know. First Iíve heard of it.

PRS Guitars
04-07-2018, 06:27 PM
Tell us more about oasis.

According to blogger ďthe points guyĒ itís a euphemism for adding seats to 737ís, specifically going from 160 to 172, with the end goal of reducing configurations for consistency. Of course take it through the filter that this a blogger...

QuagmireGiggity
04-07-2018, 07:10 PM
If we get more Group IV aircraft many of us will just have to pay more taxes.

TransWorld
04-07-2018, 10:04 PM
If we get more Group IV aircraft many of us will just have to pay more taxes.

Letís go back and all flying DC-3s!

Frip
04-08-2018, 03:00 AM
Letís go back and all flying DC-3s!


Won't work... That would involve having to actually do actual pilot stuff, like start engines and navigate and hand-fly approaches - not to mention employ some degree of basic technique for crosswind takeoffs and landings.

Dolphinflyer
04-08-2018, 03:45 AM
Won't work... That would involve having to actually do actual pilot stuff, like start engines and navigate and hand-fly approaches - not to mention employ some degree of basic technique for crosswind takeoffs and landings.

Easy transition for those on the 737, they'll enjoy the more ergonomically designed cockpit and lower noise. Probably a 3 day differences course for the S80 guys.

Frip
04-08-2018, 03:59 AM
Yeah.... Three hours worth of informatin crammed into three days.

E175 Driver
04-08-2018, 04:50 AM
How does this affects the flow thru?

TallFlyer
04-08-2018, 05:20 AM
How does this affects the flow thru?
Not at all.

Laker24
04-08-2018, 05:27 AM
How does this affects the flow thru?

The 787s are not growth aircraft. The only thing that drives hiring is retirements and to a lesser degree improved work rules.

Flytolive
04-08-2018, 05:49 AM
https://thepointsguy.com/news/why-aa-ditched-its-a350-order-in-favor-of-the-dreamliner/

Saabs
04-08-2018, 05:52 AM
How does this affects the flow thru?

Junior twerps like you will take longer to flow from 737 to 787

swaayze
04-08-2018, 08:13 AM
Ha ha. Heís trrollin', down A1A.

ZeroTT
04-08-2018, 10:26 AM
.

At one time you could do all that on Pan Am, TWA, etc.

.

Pan Am's business model was international only. They were dependent on pre-deregulation non-flag carriers for feed. They died because they couldn't connect melbourne,FL to melbourne, australia

Floobs
04-08-2018, 03:25 PM
According to blogger ďthe points guyĒ itís a euphemism for adding seats to 737ís, specifically going from 160 to 172, with the end goal of reducing configurations for consistency. Of course take it through the filter that this a blogger...

AA really has the orwellian language down well. Only they could call something that adds more seats "Oasis".

PRS Guitars
04-08-2018, 03:56 PM
If we get more Group IV aircraft many of us will just have to pay more taxes.

...and make more money. Top rate is 35% not 100%. By your logic we should all be bidding 190 FO to pay less taxes.

drinksonme
04-08-2018, 06:57 PM
The Oasis is a Mirage....

Better hit the gym folks that are chubby (me included), and better get to the plastic surgeon if you are over 5í9Ē (crud me too) to have them shave your legs down.

Smallest pitch in the industry, smallest width in the industry, smallest lav (25% smaller) and some how this is an Oasis? Who the f are these clowns. Worse yet, Doug, how could you and Robby give them a thumbs up......oh I see you mean an Oasis of money in your accounts....I get it now. Unreal.....Spirit....we are coming for you sucker.

KDA....Keepin Delta Ahead.....idiots.

Name User
04-08-2018, 07:00 PM
Pan Am's business model was international only. They were dependent on pre-deregulation non-flag carriers for feed. They died because they couldn't connect melbourne,FL to melbourne, australia

Oh I'm aware. I knew someone would call me on it.

Sliceback
04-08-2018, 07:28 PM
Seatguru -

Spirit - 28”

DL and UA new a/c are 30-31” in coach.

SW is 32-33”. Nice. We’ll have to see what they’re MAX’s are. Everything else being equal SW is the clear winner.

LuckyNow
04-09-2018, 04:27 AM
I have flown some very old 737s lately. 3A_ and 3B_ tailnumbers that have *just* had the new ViaSat WiFi system installed in them.

Iíd assume that the 737 Max was going to replace some of these older models with all those cycles on them. Since we are deferring those Maxes (and the fact that weíve recently upgraded the WiFi) it makes me think that they are just going to delay the trip to ROW for the older ones.

So thereís no loss of 40 AC, weíre just keeping the old, noisy ones around for longer. Whatever, they still pay the same, just make you deafer faster.

Sliceback
04-09-2018, 05:51 AM
Video, posted Friday on jetnet, says the announced early 737 retirements have been pushed back. No net loss of airplanes.

Frip
04-09-2018, 05:53 AM
The 727 was quiet enough if ya' flew 280/.76/280

Nose looks the same, would that work for the 737? :):D;)

Boogerface
04-09-2018, 06:40 AM
Video, posted Friday on jetnet, says the announced early 737 retirements have been pushed back. No net loss of airplanes.

I had heard through the grapevine that investors were not happy with the retirement of older 737s. Still a good 10 years of flying left in them.

aa73
04-09-2018, 07:12 AM
The 727 was quiet enough if ya' flew 280/.76/280

Nose looks the same, would that work for the 737? :):D;)

Yep. 280 to .76 is not bad at all.

mainlineAF
04-09-2018, 07:19 AM
Video, posted Friday on jetnet, says the announced early 737 retirements have been pushed back. No net loss of airplanes.



Thatís good news so it must be a lie!!!

Dolphinflyer
04-09-2018, 07:24 AM
I had heard through the grapevine that investors were not happy with the retirement of older 737s. Still a good 10 years of flying left in them.

My bet it was a negotiating play with Airbus/Boeing tied into the 787 deal.

Like you said, they still have plenty of life in them. The average flight hours in the group of 40 A/C is very low by historical standards of retired aircraft. Not sure how they were ever going to get that by Wall Street when SWA has more that age with probably higher hours and cycles.

(They do have more than twice the hours of the highest time B52 though :D)

LuckyNow
04-09-2018, 08:05 AM
The 727 was quiet enough if ya' flew 280/.76/280

Nose looks the same, would that work for the 737? :):D;)

Thatís exactly what I flew it back to ORD at yesterday.

Floobs
04-09-2018, 09:33 AM
Some of you guys have been reading too many of Miller's postings and his chicken little isms have rubbed off on you.

mainlineAF
04-09-2018, 04:56 PM
Some of you guys have been reading too many of Miller's postings and his chicken little isms have rubbed off on you.

That guy is a complete nut. He also bumped the primary js when he was a3 out of dfw to ord a few months back. Or so Iím told..

Sliceback
04-09-2018, 05:05 PM
This isn't that tough - if you list for the A3 early enough, and that can be as close as the same day for some flights during non hectic periods, you're positive space.

And if you're going to training, or coming home from training, you typically know at least 24 hrs ahead of time and frequently several weeks ahead of time. I've never *not* had the A3 as a positive space seat to/from training. When I get my training schedule I make my A3 listings. If the training schedule changes at the last second, and I can make an earlier flight, I D2 on that keeping the A3 PS seat as a backup. Works like a charm.

Saabs
04-09-2018, 10:14 PM
This isn't that tough - if you list for the A3 early enough, and that can be as close as the same day for some flights during non hectic periods, you're positive space.

And if you're going to training, or coming home from training, you typically know at least 24 hrs ahead of time and frequently several weeks ahead of time. I've never *not* had the A3 as a positive space seat to/from training. When I get my training schedule I make my A3 listings. If the training schedule changes at the last second, and I can make an earlier flight, I D2 on that keeping the A3 PS seat as a backup. Works like a charm.
So now that we are A1 home - why are we A1D instead of A1 and whatís the difference?

MKUltra
04-10-2018, 03:18 AM
I will say this.. there are a bunch of rj regional aircraft just sitting daily because of lack of crew.. my regional has several birds a day in a hanger or hardstand because we can't cover the flying. We are not the only one. We can't train people as fast as we are losing them and it's becoming a code brown. Again, we are not the only one.

I would think a c series or e19x order would be announced this year and try to catch delta in rasm..

Customers take notice at a lot of airports we go to in the rj.. delta almost always has ron bus or 717.. we have dashes and 50 seat rjs parked next to them. Frontier, sw, jb, and even Allegiant are at these same locations.. when price is almost equal or less.. what airline are the costumers going to choose?

I really believe AA and United are way behind the 8 ball and the gap is going to be very noticeable in the next few years as RASM continues to shrink as American tries to salvage a regional network they can't sustain. I really believe it's past fixable and if they bring more flying in-house it will be years before they can catch up which will greatly effect the hub to hub and the international business. This will lead to the rumored reduction in mainline aircraft, and I firmly believe the analyst and strategist in dfw are well aware of this. Wall street is starting to sniff this as well. I know many of you have read this article, https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-delta-out-managing-its-rivals-detailed-look-rasm-courtney-miller/

aa73
04-10-2018, 03:28 AM
This isn't that tough - if you list for the A3 early enough, and that can be as close as the same day for some flights during non hectic periods, you're positive space.

And if you're going to training, or coming home from training, you typically know at least 24 hrs ahead of time and frequently several weeks ahead of time. I've never *not* had the A3 as a positive space seat to/from training. When I get my training schedule I make my A3 listings. If the training schedule changes at the last second, and I can make an earlier flight, I D2 on that keeping the A3 PS seat as a backup. Works like a charm.

Well, it happened to me. Last year, during upgrade training. Booked all my flights home three weeks in advance. One of them was booked full already three weeks out. All day long those flights were full. So I didnít get a seat even as an A3. Agent offered me the j/s... I said heck no, I am supposed to be positive space coming home from training, I will not sit in the j/s on company business. She shrugged her shoulders and proceeded to give the other pilot (who was also A3) the j/s...he gladly accepted. I rolled over to the next flight where I lucked out and got a seat. My plan was to continue rolling over from flight to flight, then eventually go straight to the VP Flights office with a printed copy of every standby list I got bumped off, to highlight what is incredibly wrong with our crappy DH rules along with why I am fatigued for training.

And we wonder why we donít have industry standard DH rules? Itís because of pilots like these who continue to take the j/s when on compay business.

It doesnít always work Slice. And thatís wrong. Talk to your UAL, DAL friends and every other airline in the US. You wonít ever catch them sitting in a j/s coming home from training, or anytime for that matter on company business. Everyone else except us gets true POSITIVE SPACE.

Sunfish FAIP
04-10-2018, 03:58 AM
Well, it happened to me. Last year, during upgrade training. Booked all my flights home three weeks in advance. One of them was booked full already three weeks out. All day long those flights were full. So I didnít get a seat even as an A3. Agent offered me the j/s... I said heck no, I am supposed to be positive space coming home from training, I will not sit in the j/s on company business. She shrugged her shoulders and proceeded to give the other pilot (who was also A3) the j/s...he gladly accepted. I rolled over to the next flight where I lucked out and got a seat. My plan was to continue rolling over from flight to flight, then eventually go straight to the VP Flights office with a printed copy of every standby list I got bumped off, to highlight what is incredibly wrong with our crappy DH rules along with why I am fatigued for training.

And we wonder why we donít have industry standard DH rules? Itís because of pilots like these who continue to take the j/s when on compay business.

It doesnít always work Slice. And thatís wrong. Talk to your UAL, DAL friends and every other airline in the US. You wonít ever catch them sitting in a j/s coming home from training, or anytime for that matter on company business. Everyone else except us gets true POSITIVE SPACE.



And it's because of entitled mentalities like this one that pilots get a bad rap. I get it we get an A3 to go visit fam during training but if the jet was full of revenue pax and you can't have a seat assignment to go home to visit the fam don't stiff arm your family/gate agent/ the man in principle because you want your 29E middle seat in cattle class. Just take the JS and go! Be glad the company gives us the A3 option to go home. I came from WN and they would NEVER provide an A3 style ticket to go home during training. We were on our own to non rev home and on several occasions I had to tell the girlfriend and cat that I couldn't come home bc the loads were too risky for me to get back to training.


Is the glass half empty or half full.....

aa73
04-10-2018, 04:06 AM
^^^ Wow... I have no words.

Boogerface
04-10-2018, 04:44 AM
When I was at a certain WO regional carrier as a new hire, we were told that if we non-revved home and weren't able to get back in time for class the next week to not even bother trying to get back, because our job wouldn't exist any more. Yes, it's not as good as it could be, but perspective is everything. I wouldn't be happy about having to j/s during training, but a ride home is a ride home. Sounds like something that should be brought up during section 6....

R57 relay
04-10-2018, 05:07 AM
^^^ Wow... I have no words.

Yep, wow. I think he missed the point.

MKUltra
04-10-2018, 05:29 AM
When I was at a certain WO regional carrier as a new hire, we were told that if we non-revved home and weren't able to get back in time for class the next week to not even bother trying to get back, because our job wouldn't exist any more. Yes, it's not as good as it could be, but perspective is everything. I wouldn't be happy about having to j/s during training, but a ride home is a ride home. Sounds like something that should be brought up during section 6....

At my wo during initial.. if we left during training and the hotel was found to be empty for the night we should just not come back... or the stern military talk that 50 percent of you are not good enough to even walk in the door here.. look at the person next to you because either them or you will be gone..

Now if they have a pulse, breath, and have some basic English skills they will train them... 20 plus extra sims included , positive space to and fro anywhere.

I have a job.. i could be collecting garbage right now.. i make the best of it and work the system as much as i can and will happily take a jump if its to get home, help someone else get a seat etc.. i won't take the jump for a scheduled dh during duty..

PRS Guitars
04-10-2018, 06:27 AM
And it's because of entitled mentalities like this one that pilots get a bad rap. I get it we get an A3 to go visit fam during training but if the jet was full of revenue pax and you can't have a seat assignment to go home to visit the fam don't stiff arm your family/gate agent/ the man in principle because you want your 29E middle seat in cattle class. Just take the JS and go! Be glad the company gives us the A3 option to go home. I came from WN and they would NEVER provide an A3 style ticket to go home during training. We were on our own to non rev home and on several occasions I had to tell the girlfriend and cat that I couldn't come home bc the loads were too risky for me to get back to training.


Is the glass half empty or half full.....

No, aa73 has the correct mentality on this one...

nimslow
04-10-2018, 06:35 AM
And it's because of entitled mentalities like this one that pilots get a bad rap. I get it we get an A3 to go visit fam during training but if the jet was full of revenue pax and you can't have a seat assignment to go home to visit the fam don't stiff arm your family/gate agent/ the man in principle because you want your 29E middle seat in cattle class. Just take the JS and go! Be glad the company gives us the A3 option to go home. I came from WN and they would NEVER provide an A3 style ticket to go home during training. We were on our own to non rev home and on several occasions I had to tell the girlfriend and cat that I couldn't come home bc the loads were too risky for me to get back to training.


Is the glass half empty or half full.....

So instead, you "stiff arm" one of your fellow pilots who is trying to commute, stay classy. AA73 has it right, don't ever take the JS on an A pass.

Not long ago, something got messed up when tracking built me an A1 PNR, and the gate was unable to check me in for the flight. After I spent an hour on the phone, and they were unable to fix it, The agent tried to get me to sit in a jumpseat, bumping one of the D2W's. Sorry, not going to do that. The flight left without me. I got out on the next one, but I would have sat there until I timed out, or had to FTG, before I would have taken the JS.

sumwherelse
04-10-2018, 07:04 AM
So how about those 787ís??

Name User
04-10-2018, 01:50 PM
So looks like good news; they do plan on keeping the older 737-800's

Net result is more airplanes on property than planned from last year.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/aa-767-retirement-retains-a330s/

With the reduction in 767's any bets in placing 787's in new hubs? Think Philly we get it?!? Also I assume it will go to MIA?

SunDevilPilot
04-10-2018, 02:36 PM
So looks like good news; they do plan on keeping the older 737-800's

Net result is more airplanes on property than planned from last year.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/aa-767-retirement-retains-a330s/

With the reduction in 767's any bets in placing 787's in new hubs? Think Philly we get it?!? Also I assume it will go to MIA?
I think Philly will definitely see some 7-8 action. You have the A330-300 and the 767 both based there, and according to the AA Pilots announcement this order will replace planes from both of those fleets. I'll bet money the next Crew News session will see that question asked.

123494
04-10-2018, 03:27 PM
Will the 757 be retired on the same schedule as the 767? If not, when will they be retired?

mainlineAF
04-10-2018, 04:44 PM
So looks like good news; they do plan on keeping the older 737-800's

Net result is more airplanes on property than planned from last year.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/aa-767-retirement-retains-a330s/

With the reduction in 767's any bets in placing 787's in new hubs? Think Philly we get it?!? Also I assume it will go to MIA?

Iím not going to say i told you so... lol

R57 relay
04-10-2018, 05:29 PM
So how about those 787ís??

It's a small wide bodied, twin engine jet aircraft made of plastic. It, like everything at American Airlines sucks, nothing too see here until we have Delta profit sharing.

Al Czervik
04-10-2018, 08:14 PM
It's a small wide bodied, twin engine jet aircraft made of plastic. It, like everything at American Airlines sucks, nothing too see here until we have Delta profit sharing.

Damn right. Finally someone gets it! ;)

nimslow
04-10-2018, 09:14 PM
It's a small wide bodied, twin engine jet aircraft made of plastic. It, like everything at American Airlines sucks, nothing too see here until we have Delta profit sharing.

So, since EVERYTHING at AA sucks, you are actively trying to leave? Got your apps in everywhere else?

450knotOffice
04-10-2018, 10:14 PM
Not the usual R57 Iím used to.

SactisbonesBJ
04-10-2018, 10:27 PM
It's a small wide bodied, twin engine jet aircraft made of plastic. It, like everything at American Airlines sucks, nothing too see here until we have Delta profit sharing.

Volunteer and do something about it ya putz

Sliceback
04-11-2018, 03:34 AM
You guys need to get your sarcasm meters re-calibrated. R57 is right, everything at AA sucks. Read that somewhere.

R57 relay
04-11-2018, 04:59 AM
You guys need to get your sarcasm meters re-calibrated. R57 is right, everything at AA sucks. Read that somewhere.

Sliceback nailed it. Sarcasm is hard to judge on a webboard.

R57 relay
04-11-2018, 05:01 AM
Damn right. Finally someone gets it! ;)

😁

You had to suffer through me to understand me!

nimslow
04-11-2018, 07:03 AM
Sliceback nailed it. Sarcasm is hard to judge on a webboard.

Sorry, my sarcasm meter was a little out of calibration last night.

Name User
04-11-2018, 09:34 AM
Iím not going to say i told you so... lol

Ha

I hope it works out for us. I noticed they leased the -8 and bought the -9.

It's a little frustrating because for the $15m a copy they could've had practically new 767's, yet they went out and bought brand spanking new 787's for significantly more money. The 787 is certainly not optimum for the mission it will play, it's built too heavy to carry all that fuel for range that isn't needed. The 797 sounds like it would've been a better deal - defer the 767 retirements until the 797 comes out. That is what UA and DL are doing.

I don't know why our management refuses to just not copy what DL does. They have their heads on straight. It's really simple, and doesn't require any thinking or guessing on their part.

Al Czervik
04-11-2018, 10:46 AM
Ha

I hope it works out for us. I noticed they leased the -8 and bought the -9.

It's a little frustrating because for the $15m a copy they could've had practically new 767's, yet they went out and bought brand spanking new 787's for significantly more money. The 787 is certainly not optimum for the mission it will play, it's built too heavy to carry all that fuel for range that isn't needed. The 797 sounds like it would've been a better deal - defer the 767 retirements until the 797 comes out. That is what UA and DL are doing.

I don't know why our management refuses to just not copy what DL does. They have their heads on straight. It's really simple, and doesn't require any thinking or guessing on their part.

I thought I saw the 797 isnít going to be out for some time.

Name User
04-11-2018, 11:43 AM
I thought I saw the 797 isnít going to be out for some time.

2025. Our original plan was to refurb the 767 and keep it another 6-7 years.

Quite possible this was the best option on the table. They really wanted to get out from under those A350's and from the sounds of it wanted to push the MAX delieveries back as well. Combine that with the values of the 767's most likely peaking out and they made a deal.

Al Czervik
04-11-2018, 01:08 PM
2025. Our original plan was to refurb the 767 and keep it another 6-7 years.

Quite possible this was the best option on the table. They really wanted to get out from under those A350's and from the sounds of it wanted to push the MAX delieveries back as well. Combine that with the values of the 767's most likely peaking out and they made a deal.

Boeing is going to sell a ton of them.

Battlinbear21
04-13-2018, 03:42 AM
So instead, you "stiff arm" one of your fellow pilots who is trying to commute, stay classy. AA73 has it right, don't ever take the JS on an A pass.

Not long ago, something got messed up when tracking built me an A1 PNR, and the gate was unable to check me in for the flight. After I spent an hour on the phone, and they were unable to fix it, The agent tried to get me to sit in a jumpseat, bumping one of the D2W's. Sorry, not going to do that. The flight left without me. I got out on the next one, but I would have sat there until I timed out, or had to FTG, before I would have taken the JS.

NH here who will have OBS JS coming up soon. Whatís the best way to see if someone has the jumpseat so I can avoid it. Jet Net? Call the number. I wont Even bump someone off who is going to or from work for my training. Plenty of other flights to catch. Days off are the most important thing and I will not be the way of that even if the company gives me priority for it. Oh Iím on the 190 and driving to work so no sweat for me to make 2 legs a all day thing.

sherpster
04-13-2018, 04:13 AM
NH here who will have OBS JS coming up soon. Whatís the best way to see if someone has the jumpseat so I can avoid it. Jet Net? Call the number. I wont Even bump someone off who is going to or from work for my training. Plenty of other flights to catch. Days off are the most important thing and I will not be the way of that even if the company gives me priority for it. Oh Iím on the 190 and driving to work so no sweat for me to make 2 legs a all day thing.

I ended up making my own JS reservation thru the 1-800 number, no need to go thru publications. I had heard of issues with other new hires and wanted to avoid that same issue.

PRS Guitars
04-13-2018, 05:25 AM
NH here who will have OBS JS coming up soon. Whatís the best way to see if someone has the jumpseat so I can avoid it. Jet Net? Call the number. I wont Even bump someone off who is going to or from work for my training. Plenty of other flights to catch. Days off are the most important thing and I will not be the way of that even if the company gives me priority for it. Oh Iím on the 190 and driving to work so no sweat for me to make 2 legs a all day thing.

They really ought to be giving you an A1 seat, and then you can give that to the JSír. Is that not how it works? If not add it to the list of things we need in 2019.

Sliceback
04-13-2018, 06:48 AM
They get an A1W. W being key. Observation trips in the cabin are for F/Aís. :-/

PRS Guitars
04-13-2018, 08:46 AM
They get an A1W. W being key. Observation trips in the cabin are for F/A’s. :-/

This is a problem then, especially with the amount of hiring coming up. Combine that with lots of military new hires that haven’t been mentored yet and might not understand the unintended consequences of taking the JS from a commuter. I don’t really think there is a need for observation rides in the first place, but if we’re going to do them at least get them a seat in the cabin to trade with the JS’r, or make them book it in advance rather than be able to kick a guy off after he’s reserved it. Are these guys paid for the observation rides? Or is it under the umbrella of training pay? Are their hotels paid for?

Kebert Xela
04-13-2018, 09:09 AM
This is a problem then, especially with the amount of hiring coming up. Combine that with lots of military new hires that havenít been mentored yet and might not understand the unintended consequences of taking the JS from a commuter. I donít really think there is a need for observation rides in the first place, but if weíre going to do them at least get them a seat in the cabin to trade with the JSír, or make them book it in advance rather than be able to kick a guy off after heís reserved it. Are these guys paid for the observation rides? Or is it under the umbrella of training pay? Are their hotels paid for?


Observation rides paid under training pay and no hotel or extra pay. Required to do 4 legs which most guys do 2 out and backs or JS to go home during training.... caveat being you CAN/only can do 2 legs after sim 5 and 2 legs after sim check but all 4 legs must completed within 2 days of sim check. Thatís for domestic....

Personally I did 4 legs after sim check and specifically asked if anyone had already reserved the JS on the legs I wanted to book. Short answer is I was told they donít know and since itís required for training I took precedence. Honestly not the answer I was looking for but I had no clue how to check otherwise and had 48 hours to complete 4 legs. I picked flights that I load checked and knew there were seats in the back.... only way I could figure I wouldnít be bumping someone trying to get home.

Military new hire trying to figure it all out:eek:

PRS Guitars
04-13-2018, 11:08 AM
Military new hire trying to figure it all out:eek:

Thanks,

Yeah, Iím military too, which is why I made the comment. We didnít have Observation rides on the LUS side, which is why Iíve asked these questions.

Kebert Xela
04-13-2018, 04:35 PM
Thanks,

Yeah, Iím military too, which is why I made the comment. We didnít have Observation rides on the LUS side, which is why Iíve asked these questions.

Wasnít meaning to be a dig at all, sorry if it came off that way.

Trying to say that the next round of new hires (IMO mil guys mostly) will be clueless on whatís the best way to not screw your buddy. I learned a ton from prior 121 guys over beers the right and wrong way to travel for work and how to travel for fun.

Iím definitely still learning, no doubt.

Pony Express
04-13-2018, 05:03 PM
What is proper etiquette for jumpseating for fun? Talk with the gate agent and make sure you aren't stepping on anyone? Will the crew know who's going to work or who is traveling for fun/ are they they ones to ask?

PRS Guitars
04-13-2018, 05:04 PM
Wasnít meaning to be a dig at all, sorry if it came off that way.



Oh no, I knew that, I was just letting you know I was in the same boat when I was first hired:cool:

cactusmike
04-14-2018, 07:07 PM
What is proper etiquette for jumpseating for fun? Talk with the gate agent and make sure you aren't stepping on anyone? Will the crew know who's going to work or who is traveling for fun/ are they they ones to ask?



Nope, you are entitled to ride the jumpseat for whatever reason you want to as a D2WP or WA. The issue here is if you are positive space company business and you take the jumpseat, thereby bumping a D2W. Your time off is just as important as a commuter flight is to him. And I say that as a commuter who has to ride up front almost all the time lately. Someone that reserves the jumpseat ahead of me deserves that right.

450knotOffice
04-14-2018, 07:36 PM
Nope, you are entitled to ride the jumpseat for whatever reason you want to as a D2WP or WA. The issue here is if you are positive space company business and you take the jumpseat, thereby bumping a D2W. Your time off is just as important as a commuter flight is to him. And I say that as a commuter who has to ride up front almost all the time lately. Someone that reserves the jumpseat ahead of me deserves that right.

Absolutely correct.

Frip
04-16-2018, 07:40 AM
What is proper etiquette for jumpseating for fun? Talk with the gate agent and make sure you aren't stepping on anyone? Will the crew know who's going to work or who is traveling for fun/ are they they ones to ask?

NonRev priveleges including the jumpseat are for equal use for everyone iaw the procedures and rules in place.

You reserve it, you got it, even if all you're doing is making a run to MSY for fresh biegnets and that suckass stuff they call coffee.

Period.

LIOG41
04-16-2018, 11:46 AM
Why donít you guys start a new thread on this instead of taking over the 787 order thread.

TallFlyer
04-17-2018, 05:22 AM
So, how many Jumpseats on the 787s? :D

TallFlyer
04-17-2018, 05:27 AM
I know many of you have read this article, https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-delta-out-managing-its-rivals-detailed-look-rasm-courtney-miller/
While I like that article, that was written by a Bombardier employee, not Wall Street.

That said, I do think a CS100 / E2 aircraft is likely at AA, but only 3-5 years after everyone else has done it.

justfun
04-17-2018, 07:23 AM
the 787 has two jumpseats in the cockpit. We have a rest seat in the bunk area that can only be used AA folks, and I think it is even more restrictive to pilots that are trained on the plane. If there is 4 pilots on the flight then the crew rest seat in first may be occupied. However with 4 pilots that means international jumpseat rules apply.

BOGSAT
10-08-2018, 06:44 PM
Thread resurrection.

Anyone privy to the latest in deliveries/future base announcements?

QuagmireGiggity
10-08-2018, 09:22 PM
Thread resurrection.

Anyone privy to the latest in deliveries/future base announcements?
Not really new but they're saying most likely PHL will get 78s next.

Sliceback
10-09-2018, 11:41 AM
Not really new but they're saying most likely PHL will get 78s next.

PHL 3Q2020 has been mentioned. Weíll see.

BOGSAT
10-13-2018, 10:58 AM
PHL 3Q2020 has been mentioned. Weíll see.

My ďguess/hopeĒ is that they would start to bring the nice new medal in before the busy summer travel season of 2020?

Surprise
10-13-2018, 08:15 PM
My ďguess/hopeĒ is that they would start to bring the nice new medal in before the busy summer travel season of 2020?

Medal? Metal? Carbon fiber?

BOGSAT
10-14-2018, 07:59 PM
Medal? Metal? Carbon fiber?

Exactly. Very important difference.

TRZ06
10-14-2018, 11:02 PM
50 plus domestic sequences on the 787 ORD sheet. Whats up with that? Less than ideal flying for a long range aircraft unless there is nowhere to use them. 767 replacements I can see, but ORD-SFO?
Maybe just a winter decrease but I thought international was less susceptible to that. Probably a result of the cancelled China flying. Cost cutting in action IMO.

Al Czervik
10-15-2018, 01:34 AM
50 plus domestic sequences on the 787 ORD sheet. Whats up with that? Less than ideal flying for a long range aircraft unless there is nowhere to use them. 767 replacements I can see, but ORD-SFO?
Maybe just a winter decrease but I thought international was less susceptible to that. Probably a result of the cancelled China flying. Cost cutting in action IMO.

A lot of training on these routes.

billyho
10-15-2018, 02:45 PM
50 plus domestic sequences on the 787 ORD sheet. Whats up with that? Less than ideal flying for a long range aircraft unless there is nowhere to use them. 767 replacements I can see, but ORD-SFO?
Maybe just a winter decrease but I thought international was less susceptible to that. Probably a result of the cancelled China flying. Cost cutting in action IMO.

The plane is tremendously flexible and efficient at both (long and Medium). That's why many operators love it.

meyers9163
10-15-2018, 02:57 PM
50 plus domestic sequences on the 787 ORD sheet. Whats up with that? Less than ideal flying for a long range aircraft unless there is nowhere to use them. 767 replacements I can see, but ORD-SFO?
Maybe just a winter decrease but I thought international was less susceptible to that. Probably a result of the cancelled China flying. Cost cutting in action IMO.

Thatís normal.... Parker and company have done this for years on the 330 and 767 fleet. Very normal. Better we use the plane then not. They constantly hate seeing how AA sat 777s around all day to then work a flight 15-20 hours later. A plane not flying isnít making money. SFO and big markets make a ton of sense and Iím glad to see it. Weíve been doing an A330 PHL SFO for a while. Much like DFW SFO has had an 787. Use the planes where they are needed during winter slow time.

Name User
10-16-2018, 06:03 PM
The plane is tremendously flexible and efficient at both (long and Medium). That's why many operators love it.

Not really..inside of six-eight hours the 767-300 is better.

But...we already have the planes so at this point, if it's profitable...who cares...but I can already see C&R *****ing about flying it "domestically...*shudder*".