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antin
04-08-2018, 07:11 AM
Right now at my regional I have the ability to let other pilots pick up my trips, and reduce my credit for that month as low as I want. I just have to pay health care out-of-pocket if I go below ~50 credit hours.

The ability to drop/post trips down to 0 hours credit (in theory at least...) is really valuable to me for some months when I would like extended/uninterrupted time off.

At the majors, does this similar ability exist across the board? Or does it vary by the airline, where some require you always maintain a given minimum credit (and if so, which ones allow)?


rickair7777
04-08-2018, 08:05 AM
It varies by airline. I know at least a few have hard mins which you cannot go below.

SUX4U
04-08-2018, 08:18 AM
United recently put into place a 50 hour floor of flying/non flying credit. It has really had a negative impact on trading/dropping trips. A lot of pilots, myself included would drop down to 30ish hours and then as the month goes on pick up/trade into trips that worked better for whatever reasons, be it more productive trips, better report/release, etc.


antin
04-08-2018, 01:38 PM
United recently put into place a 50 hour floor of flying/non flying credit. It has really had a negative impact on trading/dropping trips. A lot of pilots, myself included would drop down to 30ish hours and then as the month goes on pick up/trade into trips that worked better for whatever reasons, be it more productive trips, better report/release, etc.

This is good to know - bummer to hear that. I like that same strategy as well. Thanks for the info.

skipro101
04-08-2018, 01:51 PM
United recently put into place a 50 hour floor of flying/non flying credit. It has really had a negative impact on trading/dropping trips. A lot of pilots, myself included would drop down to 30ish hours and then as the month goes on pick up/trade into trips that worked better for whatever reasons, be it more productive trips, better report/release, etc.


How could this be "put into place" without a contract amendment/LOA?

BoilerUP
04-08-2018, 02:08 PM
At UPS, you cannot simply drop trips into Open Time, but you can drop down to 37.5 credit hours per eight-week bid period ONLY by giving away trips to other pilots via Trip Board.

Shorter and "easier" trips trips are MUCH more likely to be 'picked up', with 5+ day trips pretty much impossible to give away.

WhiskeyDelta
04-08-2018, 03:45 PM
We can drop down to 0 at Delta without consequence from the company. Still have to cover our part of the benies, though.

Andy
04-08-2018, 04:54 PM
United recently put into place a 50 hour floor of flying/non flying credit. It has really had a negative impact on trading/dropping trips. A lot of pilots, myself included would drop down to 30ish hours and then as the month goes on pick up/trade into trips that worked better for whatever reasons, be it more productive trips, better report/release, etc.

That minimum (50 hrs) has been around for a very long time - going back to at least C2003 IIRC. In the current contract, C2013, you'll find it listed in 20-P-1-h. The reason why you haven't seen it enforced until recently is because in the left column next to 20-P, it states: Full Implementation TBD by the JIT. Looks like they've now implemented the section below.
You could probably drop below 50 hrs with scheduling or Chief Pilot office coordination.

20-P-1-h Without Company concurrence, a schedule modification request shall be denied if
it causes the sum of the Lineholderís Flying Hours and Nonflying Hours, as defined in
Section 5-B-2-b, to be below fifty (50) hours.

Dolphinflyer
04-08-2018, 05:53 PM
AA is zero.
I've done it more than once. I think there is/was some stipulation about maintaining at least 50% of some number for the following month, but never have heard any complaints. Not that there are any, but I doubt a guy who could pull it off would get much sympathy.

Easy to do if you have turns/2 days during the week. More than a few times I've reached the 10th of the month with zero hours, but being infected with a few DNA strands of some German work ethic, I end up filling up the month. Personally, a month living in van down by the river would work for me. Sucks being married and being told to go to work.:D

AZFlyer
04-08-2018, 07:07 PM
What's the process to do that at AA? Post your trips in open-time and hope someone picks them up? Only for line-holders or can reserve days be posted as well?

Dolphinflyer
04-08-2018, 07:48 PM
What's the process to do that at AA? Post your trips in open-time and hope someone picks them up? Only for line-holders or can reserve days be posted as well?


Lineholders only. It's what is called "Posted Sequences" for other pilots to pick up. Weekday turns and 2-days are easiest to dump, but even the 2-days are such garbage anymore it's not a sure gig'.

The "good old days" would have you dropping a 2 leg/2-day with a late afternoon/evening departure to some place like Cali or Barbados followed by one leg home and done by noon. One could dump those 1 day after bids close. Those trips disappeared. Now, if you depart later than 10am on the first day, count on returning past 8pm on the second for close to the same pay.

Reserve days can't be dropped. Whatever you're awarded, you eat. I've never heard of anyone trading Reserve Days either.

SUX4U
04-08-2018, 08:11 PM
That minimum (50 hrs) has been around for a very long time - going back to at least C2003 IIRC. In the current contract, C2013, you'll find it listed in 20-P-1-h. The reason why you haven't seen it enforced until recently is because in the left column next to 20-P, it states: Full Implementation TBD by the JIT. Looks like they've now implemented the section below.
You could probably drop below 50 hrs with scheduling or Chief Pilot office coordination.

20-P-1-h Without Company concurrence, a schedule modification request shall be denied if
it causes the sum of the Lineholderís Flying Hours and Nonflying Hours, as defined in
Section 5-B-2-b, to be below fifty (50) hours.

Thanks for filling in the extra details I left out. I knew it was agreed upon just hoped the day didnít come for full implementation. Amazing timing just as we gear up for negotiations might I add.

Out of curiosity have they addressed the awful programming yet for guys trying trade their high credit trips for the same trip just on a different day?

I recall hearing pilot A trying to trade his 28 hour Sydney trip on the 3rd for Pilot Bís Sydney on the 4th. The system was denying the trade because it saw pilot Aís credit dropping below 50 hours and did not take into account pilot A wouls be getting 28 hours right back from pilot Bís trade.

PowderFinger
04-09-2018, 04:18 AM
United recently put into place a 50 hour floor of flying/non flying credit. It has really had a negative impact on trading/dropping trips. A lot of pilots, myself included would drop down to 30ish hours and then as the month goes on pick up/trade into trips that worked better for whatever reasons, be it more productive trips, better report/release, etc.

50 hours has been the floor at UAL for my 25+ years. Due to an IT glitch, it was possible to drop below 50 hours ... I did this a few times over the last few years down to about 35 hours. While we are an 'IT company with wings', the IT part was not fixed until recently. As a wide body F/O it is still possible to drop down toward 50 hours. It helps if you have the seniority to bid desirable flying trips on desirable days of the week. There is always some one looking for a 3 day. Would probably be tough narrow body domestic ... Certainly in the summer. YMMV

PowderFinger
04-09-2018, 04:24 AM
Sorry ... I see it was clarified ... Again I'm a day late and a dollar short waiting at the airport not knowing that my ship has come in.

Grumpyaviator
04-09-2018, 05:38 AM
We can drop down to 0 at Delta without consequence from the company. Still have to cover our part of the benies, though.

Is it easy to do and are there pilots always looking to pick something up? TIA

PilotJ3
04-09-2018, 06:11 AM
Is it easy to do and are there pilots always looking to pick something up? TIA

It depends on reserve availability. If you have enough reserves in you category is very easy. If not, then you post it on the SWAP board for someone to pick it up.

We also have 1 Authorized Drop per year, you can use it, but you can not pick any open time those days.

Andy
04-09-2018, 08:09 AM
Thanks for filling in the extra details I left out. I knew it was agreed upon just hoped the day didn’t come for full implementation. Amazing timing just as we gear up for negotiations might I add.

Out of curiosity have they addressed the awful programming yet for guys trying trade their high credit trips for the same trip just on a different day?

I recall hearing pilot A trying to trade his 28 hour Sydney trip on the 3rd for Pilot B’s Sydney on the 4th. The system was denying the trade because it saw pilot A’s credit dropping below 50 hours and did not take into account pilot A wouls be getting 28 hours right back from pilot B’s trade.

This was probably 'fixed' around the same time as the loophole that allowed reserves to aggressively pick up unlimited short calls and get paid for them.

As far as large block hour trades, I hadn't had any problems doing them but I never checked to see if they temporarily took me below 50 hrs. I know that I traded away a 49+ hr trip for the exact same trip starting on another day without any issues a couple of months ago - that definitely took me below 50 hrs temporarily.

I keep reading stories of guys at UAL who have a hard time trading. I have had hardly any trading issues that I can think of - of course, holidays are always difficult.

AZFlyer
04-09-2018, 12:38 PM
Now, if you depart later than 10am on the first day, count on returning past 8pm on the second for close to the same pay.

Man, are we sure we're not talking about my regional? Thanks for the details, though. Helps my long-range strategery.



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