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jetliner1526
04-17-2018, 09:04 AM
https://nypost.com/2018/04/17/engine-explodes-during-southwest-flight/

Engine explodes during Southwest flight
By Danielle Furfaro

A woman was nearly sucked out of a Southwest Airlines jet when an engine exploded mid-flight Tuesday — and she had to be pulled back by fellow passengers, according to reports.

Flight 1380 had departed from LaGuardia Airport and was on its way to Dallas when the engine blew at about 11:30 a.m.

A piece of shrapnel shattered a window, and a female passenger was sucked toward the hole.

“One passenger, a woman, was partially … was drawn out towards the out of the plane … was pulled back in by other passengers,” Todd Baur, the father of a passenger, told NBC10.

“Someone on the plane had a heart attack and it looks like an engine blew out then a window was blown open. We are still on the plane and they are trying to revive a woman on the plane” Marty Martinez posted on Facebook


NotMrNiceGuy
04-17-2018, 09:04 AM
That passenger window tho...


Plane makes emergency landing in Philadelphia - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/plane-makes-emergency-landing-philadelphia/story?id=54530003)

Looks like a great job by the crew.

JetDoc
04-17-2018, 09:16 AM
"Place the mask over your NOSE and mouth and breathe normally."

SMH..


jetliner1526
04-17-2018, 09:21 AM
"Place the mask over your NOSE and mouth and breathe normally."

SMH..

You’re idiot for taking a selfie and an even bigger idiot for not wearing your mask correctly.

Boogerface
04-17-2018, 09:24 AM
Love the fact that an AA staircase was brought up to deplane the pax

BoilerUP
04-17-2018, 09:28 AM
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30726497_10109992233925048_6322079696641064960_n.j pg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeGfj-Cpttud6UVCdUht-5kDGy3tmqTt4yH3xNRGa7f0YRnV0Zuq1VJXyoWr55gotL4A7bl NW1G1X31C5ivIUHlvTytO3MKbusGCi7wLMkMptA&oh=1731dd1a1ab5745162fafc7aa4bc6263&oe=5B53DDD2

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/30709125_10109992244523808_7485684850792333312_n.j pg?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=v1%3AAeHjE5UNkVwdlvoQD1B-tzHGBjwsfamkDJStW2qy9yfUiBA8zq41fDWGmCsDd5T8MbF4MI uAe7gTwVxqxu9_q6XsPWZIkxIHSj40OdNqNcZpGA&oh=013028e8ec3b4187340c92a6c5bede4f&oe=5B700C0F

gabe
04-17-2018, 09:29 AM
http://6abc.com/amp/southwest-plane-makes-emergency-landing-at-phl/3356147/

"A large amount of fluid, possibly jet fuel, was seen under and trailing behind the left side of the plane."

HwkrPlt
04-17-2018, 09:34 AM
Sounds like 60 Minutes needs to do a segment on SWA.

TexBubba
04-17-2018, 09:39 AM
I commute on you guys all the time, always fantastic service and safety. Looks like this crew had their hands full and did a professional, outstanding, and exemplary job as professional aviators. Cheers!

Lostboys97
04-17-2018, 09:48 AM
Love the fact that an AA staircase was brought up to deplane the pax

It’s an AA hub! Happy to see another operation provide any and all assistance possible.

Falcondrivr
04-17-2018, 09:51 AM
Listen to the liveatc feed. FO needs to b e nicknamed “Iceman.” Calmly says; “No, were not on fire, but part of the airplane is missing. They’re saying there’s a hole and a passenger went out.”
Awesome job. I would hope to be so calm.

PiperPower
04-17-2018, 09:51 AM
Love the fact that an AA staircase was brought up to deplane the pax

🤔 Great observation and contribution...

100LL
04-17-2018, 09:55 AM
🤔 Great observation and contribution...

What were you hoping for? The typical “glad they are all ok and prayers”.....crap I see people post on social media.

Gators
04-17-2018, 09:56 AM
“Thanks Southwest!” - Allegiant probably

OrionDriver
04-17-2018, 10:09 AM
Listen to the liveatc feed. FO needs to b e nicknamed “Iceman.” Calmly says; “No, were not on fire, but part of the airplane is missing. They’re saying there’s a hole and a passenger went out.”
Awesome job. I would hope to be so calm.

Yeah, she sounded very cool and collected on the radio, very professional.

I've been trying to find the recordings of when they initially declared, but so far no joy.

disco inferno
04-17-2018, 10:09 AM
Sounds like 60 Minutes needs to do a segment on SWA.
Not funny. Southwest is a great airline. Good job to the crew.

Dodo
04-17-2018, 10:15 AM
I genuflect in the direction of this crew. Awesome job! I also commute on SWA a lot and am glad to see this kind of professionalism (not that I have ever doubted it one minute.)

As for the idiot taking the selfie, they should have been sucked out of the window for the sake of the human gene pool.

filejw
04-17-2018, 10:18 AM
You’re idiot for taking a selfie and an even bigger idiot for not wearing your mask correctly.
True on the mask but not sure that is a selfie .

flight81
04-17-2018, 10:18 AM
Listen to the liveatc feed. FO needs to b e nicknamed “Iceman.” Calmly says; “No, were not on fire, but part of the airplane is missing. They’re saying there’s a hole and a passenger went out.”
Awesome job. I would hope to be so calm.

How do you go back and listen? I’d like to hear, but am unfamiliar with how live atc works.

exitrow
04-17-2018, 10:23 AM
Doesn't this seem awfully similar to SW3472 in Aug 2016? Uncontained left engine failure causing rapid decompression. Looks like that NTSB investigation is still open

TroutBum
04-17-2018, 10:30 AM
How do you go back and listen? I’d like to hear, but am unfamiliar with how live atc works.

There are a few at this link: https://www.liveatc.net/recordings.php

There are three links with the wrong date that I listened to (they incorrectly state April 14th). The top recorded feed is Center -- got to about the 4:00 mark.

The second feed below it is approach -- go to about the 13:00 mark.

I haven't listened to the others below it. I assume they are tower feeds.

exitrow
04-17-2018, 10:56 AM
Listen to the liveatc feed. FO needs to b e nicknamed “Iceman.” Calmly says; “No, were not on fire, but part of the airplane is missing. They’re saying there’s a hole and a passenger went out.”
Awesome job. I would hope to be so calm.

Saw a picture of the crew on Twitter, female voice you're quoting was the CA, male voice FO. Just fyi

BoilerUP
04-17-2018, 11:00 AM
Saw a picture of the crew on Twitter, female voice you're quoting was the CA, male voice FO. Just fyi

I would have assumed the CA would be flying the aircraft after a catastrophic engine failure and depress, and the FO would be PM manning the radio.

Regardless of which pilot has what plumbing, somebody needs to buy them and their FAs a couple rounds this evening.

terminal
04-17-2018, 11:21 AM
Not funny. Southwest is a great airline. Good job to the crew.

Lighten up , Francis

24Whiskey
04-17-2018, 11:27 AM
NTSB chairman has just stated that the affected passenger has died due to head trauma.

UAL T38 Phlyer
04-17-2018, 11:27 AM
The passenger passed away....official from NTSB...

:(

mainlineAF
04-17-2018, 11:29 AM
I would have assumed the CA would be flying the aircraft after a catastrophic engine failure and depress, and the FO would be PM manning the radio.



Regardless of which pilot has what plumbing, somebody needs to buy them and their FAs a couple rounds this evening.



AA suggests the captain to be PM during an an emergency/non-normal. I’m sure other airlines do as well.

Adlerdriver
04-17-2018, 11:32 AM
I would have assumed the CA would be flying the aircraft after a catastrophic engine failure and depress, and the FO would be PM manning the radio. Why would you assume that? After the initial event, a very common CRM technique would be to hand off the flying and radios to the FO and allow the Captain to "battle manage" more easily. Gives him a chance to coordinate with FAs, Dispatch, medical initially. Maybe he picks back up on the radios when the situation allows.

Spicy McHaggis
04-17-2018, 11:41 AM
Why would you assume that? After the initial event, a very common CRM technique would be to hand off the flying and radios to the FO and allow the Captain to "battle manage" more easily. Gives him a chance to coordinate with FAs, Dispatch, medical initially. Maybe he picks back up on the radios when the situation allows.



Exactly. Never really seen anything different.

Sluggo_63
04-17-2018, 11:47 AM
Why would you assume that? After the initial event, a very common CRM technique would be to hand off the flying and radios to the FO and allow the Captain to "battle manage" more easily. Gives him or her a chance to coordinate with FAs, Dispatch, medical initially. Maybe he or she picks back up on the radios when the situation allows.Fixed it for ya...

SlipKid
04-17-2018, 11:50 AM
Listen to the liveatc feed. FO needs to b e nicknamed “Iceman.” Calmly says; “No, were not on fire, but part of the airplane is missing. They’re saying there’s a hole and a passenger went out.”
Awesome job. I would hope to be so calm.

That was the Capt. on the radio.

rickair7777
04-17-2018, 11:57 AM
I would have assumed the CA would be flying the aircraft after a catastrophic engine failure and depress, and the FO would be PM manning the radio.


New way of thinking is FO flies so CA (presumably more experienced) can manage the emergency, and provide one-stop-shopping for comms and decision making without a middle-man. CA would normally do the LDG of course.

RomeoHotel
04-17-2018, 12:04 PM
Are they still doing maintenance down in San Salvador...?

BoilerUP
04-17-2018, 12:14 PM
Why would you assume that?

Because they were in the terminal area getting vectored for final by PHL TRACON when I picked up the LiveATC recording, and while I understand and have practiced the "give the FO the jet" CRM technique myself, my experience is most CAs would prefer to do a OEI landing themselves - especially if the integrity of the aircraft has been compromised.

<shrug>

at6d
04-17-2018, 12:17 PM
Some airlines have policies stating who will land OEI.

Adlerdriver
04-17-2018, 12:19 PM
Fixed it for ya...
:rolleyes: Regardless of which convention you choose (he or she), normal ops (proper English) is you pick one with the understanding that it encompasses either option. Traditionally this has been "he". That's the way I was taught and I don't give a sh!t enough to change at this point in my life.

Back to something that actually matters - like the SWA flight.

gipple
04-17-2018, 12:25 PM
Even if maintenance is to blame for poor work, (not insinuating that at all) CFM has a huge problem on its hands. Two uncontained failures that sent shrapnel into the wing and fuselage certainly does not meet certification standards.

PowderFinger
04-17-2018, 12:27 PM
Sheeeeeyut :eek:

Great job by the crew.

Swedish Blender
04-17-2018, 12:28 PM
Because they were in the terminal area getting vectored for final by PHL TRACON when I picked up the LiveATC recording, and while I understand and have practiced the "give the FO the jet" CRM technique myself, my experience is most CAs would prefer to do a OEI landing themselves - especially if the integrity of the aircraft has been compromised.

<shrug>

Many years ago, had an engine fire at second segment. I was flying and asked the captain if he wanted the jet. He said he'd never done one for real either and I was doing fine and keep the jet.

Maybe it depends on how much you trust the person next to you.:D

Jeff Lebowski
04-17-2018, 12:30 PM
Are they still doing maintenance down in San Salvador...?

Pretty sure that was just airframe checks on the Classics but I could be wrong.

As for engines, I'm wondering where our responsibility ends and GE's begins. As part of the certification process manufacturers have to show that their engines can contain catastrophic events to ensure that parts don't get sprayed up against the fuselage and tragedies like this don't occur. Clearly this wasn't the case with this motor or the one that let loose over the Gulf in 2016.

Also, I wonder how much work we actually perform on these engines. If it is strictly a "power by the hour" type of agreement, then do we just add oil and whenever the time's up send them off to a manufacturer-approved MRO? Or are we actually getting into the guts of the things on a regular basis?

I'd be interested in hearing from someone more conversant with this kind of thing than myself.

m3113n1a1
04-17-2018, 12:34 PM
Because they were in the terminal area getting vectored for final by PHL TRACON when I picked up the LiveATC recording, and while I understand and have practiced the "give the FO the jet" CRM technique myself, my experience is most CAs would prefer to do a OEI landing themselves - especially if the integrity of the aircraft has been compromised.

<shrug>

If you listen to the liveatc recording, you'll see that once they switch to tower freq, the FO is doing the radios and the Captain is most likely flying. Seems like pretty standard ops to me.

BoilerUP
04-17-2018, 12:36 PM
If you listen to the liveatc recording, you'll see that once they switch to tower freq, the FO is doing the radios and the Captain is most likely flying. Seems like pretty standard ops to me.

I admittedly stopped listening to the recording once she said part of the airplane was missing and a passenger had been sucked out (paraphrase, don't remember the exact wording used).

Just hearing that gave me chills...

rickair7777
04-17-2018, 12:36 PM
Because they were in the terminal area getting vectored for final by PHL TRACON when I picked up the LiveATC recording, and while I understand and have practiced the "give the FO the jet" CRM technique myself, my experience is most CAs would prefer to do a OEI landing themselves - especially if the integrity of the aircraft has been compromised.

<shrug>

Some airlines have policies stating who will land OEI.

I've seen several airline policies recently recommending that the CA manage and the FO fly up until final, and then the CA takes over if there are going to be any unusual landing characteristics. The policies allow for PIC discretion as needed, ie they can deviate if warranted.

TroutBum
04-17-2018, 12:40 PM
A LiveATC user has now combined all three feeds and took out some of the other ATC chatter.

https://www.liveatc.net/recordings.php

Use the feed uploaded by ChapinB.

sMFer
04-17-2018, 01:56 PM
Lot of assumptions here...CA was the female.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

hvydvr
04-17-2018, 02:09 PM
Well done to the crew. Look forward to seeing what the NTSB comes up with on the engine.

Av8rPHX
04-17-2018, 02:15 PM
Very tragic accident as it appears this was the first passenger fatality for WN. Great job by the crew and a true example of CRM and the training that has made aviation in the US as safe as it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bleeds On
04-17-2018, 02:22 PM
I commute on you guys all the time, always fantastic service and safety. Looks like this crew had their hands full and did a professional, outstanding, and exemplary job as professional aviators. Cheers!

I’d like to second that.

Stratosphere
04-17-2018, 02:26 PM
Lot of assumptions here...CA was the female.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

She is not only female but was the first female fighter pilot in the Navy according to sources.

RI830
04-17-2018, 02:27 PM
Unbelievable!!!

Great job by the crew s a whole!! Him or her....her and him.....all of them. Independent of who was PIC or SIC.

Very sad to hear the pax has passed. I can’t fathom having a pax die under my watch.

Bootleg
04-17-2018, 02:40 PM
God bless the family of the deceased passenger and those injured today.

Good job to the crew

Hacker15e
04-17-2018, 02:44 PM
She is not only female but was the first female fighter pilot in the Navy according to sources.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Hultgreen

Dustycrophopper
04-17-2018, 02:50 PM
I’m sorry you guys lost a passenger today. Prayers for the whole swa family and the woman’s family. Well done by the crew to land the aircraft

TripleCrank
04-17-2018, 03:23 PM
Fantastic performance by this flight crew managing the situation and putting the aircraft on the ground safely.

I am sorry this resulted in a passengers death but you did a great job keeping everyone you could safe.

untied
04-17-2018, 03:26 PM
Very sad indeed.

I'm always amazed at all the worship for the crew that instantly follows these events.

All they did is land the plane. Nothing spectacular there.

The real story should be why that engine had an uncontained failure.

rickair7777
04-17-2018, 03:29 PM
Very sad indeed.

I'm always amazed at all the worship for the crew that instantly follows these events.

All they did is land the plane. Nothing spectacular there.

The real story should be why that engine had an uncontained failure.

A bit more than just landing the plane. They didn't even know exactly what they were dealing with other than engine failure, depressurization, and structural damage severe enough to cause someone to depart the cabin in flight.

m3113n1a1
04-17-2018, 03:36 PM
Very sad indeed.

I'm always amazed at all the worship for the crew that instantly follows these events.

All they did is land the plane. Nothing spectacular there.

The real story should be why that engine had an uncontained failure.

America loves to push the hero story.

It does seem like the crew did a great job though!

WhisperJet
04-17-2018, 03:40 PM
We ***** when we don't get credit for a job well done and we ***** when we do get credit for a job well done.

FlyJSH
04-17-2018, 03:48 PM
Very sad indeed.

I'm always amazed at all the worship for the crew that instantly follows these events.

All they did is land the plane. Nothing spectacular there.

The real story should be why that engine had an uncontained failure.

I wouldn't say it is 'worship,' I'd call it common courtesy and simple respect.

Besides, several folks I flew with who just 'land(ed) the plane' and did wonderful job still had second thoughts about what they could have done better. A passenger died on that flight, and it wasn't the crews' actions that caused the death, but that may not stop them from wondering "What if I had...?" Hearing one's peers say 'well done' can help minimize those self doubts.

I say very well done!

OrionDriver
04-17-2018, 04:26 PM
Very sad indeed.

I'm always amazed at all the worship for the crew that instantly follows these events.

All they did is land the plane. Nothing spectacular there.


They did more than that. They executed their duties superbly, under immense stress, calmly and professionally. Exactly as we are all expected to do. They deserve the accolades they are receiving.

This sword cuts both ways: if you ever F up as a pilot, you will be publicly flogged (figuratively speaking) and everyone will second guess your entire career. Hell, even if you do it right, expect a thorough nitpicking. A pilot will forever own his or her mistakes, just as he or she will forever own the job well done when things go spectacularly sideways.

MarkVI
04-17-2018, 04:29 PM
I'm very sorry to hear the Southwest family lost a passenger today. These are never planned, expected, or "trained for" events (the loss of a passenger). Thoughts and prayers to the passengers and Southwest family.

PowderFinger
04-17-2018, 05:05 PM
Very sad indeed.

I'm always amazed at all the worship for the crew that instantly follows these events.

All they did is land the plane. Nothing spectacular there.

The real story should be why that engine had an uncontained failure.

Tacky.



Downer

zippinbye
04-17-2018, 05:06 PM
Sorry if this has been covered already, but I’m wondering about the equipment; was this a new MAX 8 by chance? Just curious.

Flightcap
04-17-2018, 05:34 PM
Well done to the crew. As others have said, I would hope to perform that well.

TexBubba
04-17-2018, 05:56 PM
Wasn’t a 73Max. Here the incident link on AvHerald. Also the full FAA registration. A/C was a 737-700.
17 years old.

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=772SW

https://avherald.com/h?article=4b7725fb&opt=0

wjcandee
04-17-2018, 07:18 PM
She is not only female but was the first female fighter pilot in the Navy according to sources.

Yeah, since someone posted something snarky that I won't dignify, the actual situation is that she was one of the first female Navy fighter pilots, and the first female Navy F/A-18 pilot.

And whatever her gender and background, she did the job cooly and professionally when stuff got Very Bad. Sullenberger said something to the effect of "Forty-two years of flying, and my entire career is going to be judged on 208 seconds." And when you come through the other end of a Very Bad Day with enough presence of mind to do all the little things right (like Sullenberger taking the log book with him as the aircraft was sinking), you deserve extra credit. Captain Shults, after doing everything she was supposed to do, then spent her time speaking individually with all of her passengers. That's something that they are going to remember for the rest of their lives, and it's going to start them on the rest of their life journey with her as the favorable face of Southwest Airlines.

rickair7777
04-17-2018, 07:33 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Hultgreen


There were female instructor fighter pilots before there were female combat fighter pilots IIRC.

Cheddar
04-17-2018, 08:05 PM
Best wishes to the SWA family. And God bless that poor woman’s family and friends. We’ve had a very good run in 121 ops for a while, let’s hope this is just a blip.

And yes, the crew did a fantastic job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WHACKMASTER
04-17-2018, 08:28 PM
Terrible to have lost a PAX indeed as well as ending the fatality free streak since 2009.

Which PAX passed away though? Was it the person that suffered a heart attack or the person sitting next to the broken window?

No one got sucked out I presume...

shaun3000
04-17-2018, 08:31 PM
The lady next to the window. She was sucked partially out. There are conflicting reports that she either died from head trauma or cardiac arrest. (Or, likely, some terrible combination)

VSTOLG4
04-17-2018, 08:48 PM
I say it was an Outstanding performance by the entire crew. Sure they did their job and they did what they were trained to do...but they did it for real (not in a simulator) and they did it "good enough" to not make the emergency worse. The Captain even said good-day to each controller she ended with...pretty mellow and in control. I would argue that she was collected enough to even keep ATC and anybody else listening calm and coolheaded. CRM extends to anybody with a say-so in the matter.

WindWalker999
04-18-2018, 12:46 AM
It is awful that a life was lost. But an excellent job by the crew managing one of the worst imaginable situations that can be handed out, suddenly without warning.

Will this have an effect on SWA's ETOPS application for the MAX (Hawaii etc)? A combination of engine out and depressurization is used as a "worst case" for ETOPS planning, and it seems like the maintenance aspects of this event would certainly ping somebody's radar in Oklahoma City.

Hacker15e
04-18-2018, 12:48 AM
There were female instructor fighter pilots before there were female combat fighter pilots IIRC.

I'm sure there were, but that wasn't the claim made that I was posting in response to.

Yeah, since someone posted something snarky that I won't dignify

It wasn't snarky, it was just factual about who the first female Navy fighter pilot was.

No commentary on either Hultrgeen or this SWA captain offered or implied.

kevbo
04-18-2018, 02:16 AM
Not funny. Southwest is a great airline. Good job to the crew.

Yes, they send a "great" amount of maintenance work to El Salvador! I wonder if they get a warranty with those cut rate overhauls?

rickair7777
04-18-2018, 02:18 AM
It is awful that a life was lost. But an excellent job by the crew managing one of the worst imaginable situations that can be handed out, suddenly without warning.

Will this have an effect on SWA's ETOPS application for the MAX (Hawaii etc)? A combination of engine out and depressurization is used as a "worst case" for ETOPS planning, and it seems like the maintenance aspects of this event would certainly ping somebody's radar in Oklahoma City.

I think it's two engine out+cowling off events? That might effect ETOPS, not sure if anyone else is using that motor/airframe combo for ETOPS.

TiredSoul
04-18-2018, 02:30 AM
First, kudos to every member of that Crew.
Second, condolences to those concerned.
Third, this is the 2nd uncontained engine failure at SW with the CFM56.
Since there’s like 10,000 CFM56’s out there on 73’s and like every 3 sec a 73 takes off somewhere in the world.
I’m putting my money on a subcontractor and overhaul practices and procedures.

gipple
04-18-2018, 02:46 AM
First, kudos to every member of that Crew.
Second, condolences to those concerned.
Third, this is the 2nd uncontained engine failure at SW with the CFM56.
Since there’s like 10,000 CFM56’s out there on 73’s and like every 3 sec a 73 takes off somewhere in the world.
I’m putting my money on a subcontractor and overhaul practices and procedures.

That doesn’t change the fact that the containment ring didn’t contain much. Fuselage compromised AND wing compromised. Twice.
CFM is probably ****ting bricks.

TiredSoul
04-18-2018, 03:17 AM
That doesn’t change the fact that the containment ring didn’t contain much. Fuselage compromised AND wing compromised. Twice.
CFM is probably ****ting bricks.

It didnt happen on opposite sides of the globe.
It happened at the same operator.
I’ll bet money the same subcontractors or overhaul facilities worked on that engine.
There are third world operators with very poor or no MX operating these engines. And it didn’t happen there.
There’s a red flag here somewhere.
Alternate method of compliance or some other maintenance procedure/technique.
And that’s probably outsourced.

DeferredItem
04-18-2018, 04:13 AM
Question for those more in the know. Based on this picture, is the containment ring in question the ring that seems intact that immediately surrounds the front fan or is it the remaining section that is missing forward of it? It looks like when this thing, and the one previous to it in 2016 came apart, it shook the forward inlet cowl apart / off once it shed the blade and it became unbalanced at speed.

http://i66.tinypic.com/6r0ikp.jpg

hansinla
04-18-2018, 05:22 AM
Keep your seatbelt on at all times?

MarkVI
04-18-2018, 05:51 AM
Question for those more in the know. Based on this picture, is the containment ring in question the ring that seems intact that immediately surrounds the front fan or is it the remaining section that is missing forward of it? It looks like when this thing, and the one previous to it in 2016 came apart, it shook the forward inlet cowl apart / off once it shed the blade and it became unbalanced at speed.

http://i66.tinypic.com/6r0ikp.jpg

I've yet to see this picture, but I'd imagine you're right. It does look like the containment ring is in tact. It looks to me like the forward cowling is composite of some kind? I'm not sure, more asking than anything.

PILOTGUY
04-18-2018, 05:59 AM
Not funny. Southwest is a great airline. Good job to the crew.

2 uncontained engine failures in as many years. I don't think anyone is laughing.

Job well done by the crew.

rickair7777
04-18-2018, 06:20 AM
Keep your seatbelt on at all times?

Can't hurt, but you'd probably need a military five point harness, really snug, to ensure you stay put with an 8 psi delta.

gipple
04-18-2018, 06:50 AM
It didnt happen on opposite sides of the globe.
It happened at the same operator.
I’ll bet money the same subcontractors or overhaul facilities worked on that engine.
There are third world operators with very poor or no MX operating these engines. And it didn’t happen there.
There’s a red flag here somewhere.
Alternate method of compliance or some other maintenance procedure/technique.
And that’s probably outsourced.

Are you purposely being thick? The fact that so much shrapnel got past the containment ring has ramifications for every CFM operator. That is engineering, not maintenance. That a second engine grenaded itself MIGHT lead back to maintenance. Uncontained incidents lead DIRECTLY back to engineering. Sheesh.

TiredSoul
04-18-2018, 06:58 AM
I don’t think that should have been posted to a public forum.
We’re (mostly) professionals here and nobody needs such a graphic depiction.
This isn’t gore.com

TiredSoul
04-18-2018, 07:08 AM
Are you purposely being thick? The fact that so much shrapnel got past the containment ring has ramifications for every CFM operator. That is engineering, not maintenance. That a second engine grenaded itself MIGHT lead back to maintenance. Uncontained incidents lead DIRECTLY back to engineering. Sheesh.

I apologize.
Standing by to be un-thickened.
I’ll start the popcorn while you look for another operator world wide that had two engines blow in two years.

Battlinbear21
04-18-2018, 07:19 AM
Looking at the profile picture of the side of the plane and the color aft of the window said it all. Glad they showed dignity not elaborating on the severity of her injuries. Great job by the crew to handle it so quick. I used to teach this senario in my sim lessons and it was always returned w a bit of humor. I’m sure my former students are thinking, holy hell...

Tango Uniform
04-18-2018, 07:36 AM
The entire flight crew are heroes. True Professionals . ATC was outstanding after listening to Live ATC. Great job in such busy airspace.

Mesabah
04-18-2018, 07:58 AM
Are you purposely being thick? The fact that so much shrapnel got past the containment ring has ramifications for every CFM operator. That is engineering, not maintenance. That a second engine grenaded itself MIGHT lead back to maintenance. Uncontained incidents lead DIRECTLY back to engineering. Sheesh.How can you tell that from so few pictures. Looks contained to me, with the cowling failing, going up over the wing, and striking the window. However, that's impossible to tell without physical examination.

Tango Uniform
04-18-2018, 08:30 AM
How can you tell that from so few pictures. Looks contained to me, with the cowling failing, going up over the wing, and striking the window. However, that's impossible to tell without physical examination.

Put a piece of metal in an unopened blender while its running. It will bounce around in there and eventually shoot out from bouncing off the blades (past the containment ring).

TheAshtar
04-18-2018, 09:38 AM
The real question here is did the crew get it on the ground in 7 min or under?

Laramie
04-18-2018, 09:43 AM
The real question here is did the crew get it on the ground in 7 min or under?

For those of us who have flown the 737, the answer is "impossible." Unless you're coming straight down with the outcome being less than desirable.

The descent rate is the first big hurdle coming off other jets.

terminal
04-18-2018, 09:58 AM
For those of us who have flown the 737, the answer is "impossible." Unless you're coming straight down with the outcome being less than desirable.

The descent rate is the first big hurdle coming off other jets.

He was joking...it was part of the hired not acquired process.

Grumble
04-18-2018, 10:22 AM
How can you tell that from so few pictures. Looks contained to me, with the cowling failing, going up over the wing, and striking the window. However, that's impossible to tell without physical examination.

Not sure why this is confusing but...

A contained engine failure is just an engine failure. You land, pieces fall out of the tail pipe. There is damage all the way down the leading edge of the wing which means some parts came out at extremely high velocity/energy. The damage to the fuselage, window, passengers would also not be indicative of a contained failure.

TheAshtar
04-18-2018, 10:37 AM
He was joking...it was part of the hired not acquired process.


Yes just trying to lighten the mood on what must be a horrible day for the crew. It sounds like they did an enviable job in an unenviable situation

gipple
04-18-2018, 11:54 AM
CFM International deploying some 40 technicians to assist Southwest in engine inspections
Reuters Staff



NEW YORK (Reuters) - CFM International, the company that supplied the engine that exploded on a Southwest Airlines flight on Tuesday, said on Wednesday it is sending about 40 General Electric and Safran technicians to assist the airline in its ongoing engine inspections.

CFM, a transatlantic joint-venture co-owned by GE and France’s Safran, said it expects the accelerated inspections to be completed over the next 30 days.

Reporting by Alana Wise; Editing by Chizu Nomiyama

Mesabah
04-18-2018, 12:38 PM
Not sure why this is confusing but...

A contained engine failure is just an engine failure. You land, pieces fall out of the tail pipe. There is damage all the way down the leading edge of the wing which means some parts came out at extremely high velocity/energy. The damage to the fuselage, window, passengers would also not be indicative of a contained failure.It's because the certification definition is different. For the Engine governed under Part 33, the engine has to contain the high energy rotor parts.(ref. AC20-128A) The cowling should not be exploding during a fan blade separation, so something is flawed in the aircraft design, not the engine.

My guess would be the shape of the cowling on the 737 is part of the cause of this. I wonder how much Boeing is paying the .gov to ignore it.

gipple
04-18-2018, 12:48 PM
It's because the certification definition is different. For the Engine governed under Part 33, the engine has to contain the high energy rotor parts.(ref. AC20-128A) The cowling should not be exploding during a fan blade separation, so something is flawed in the aircraft design, not the engine.

Hallelujah, someone who gets it.

TCASTESTOK
04-18-2018, 01:18 PM
Not looking good for southwest
Southwest Airlines flight forced to land after bird strike day after plane engine explodes - Story | WNYW (http://www.fox5ny.com/news/southwest-airlines-flight-forced-to-land-after-bird-strike-day-after-plane-engine-explodes)

Grumble
04-18-2018, 01:38 PM
It's because the certification definition is different. For the Engine governed under Part 33, the engine has to contain the high energy rotor parts.(ref. AC20-128A) The cowling should not be exploding during a fan blade separation, so something is flawed in the aircraft design, not the engine. It was pure luck those pieces didn’t go through the cabin.

My guess would be the shape of the cowling on the 737 is part of the cause of this. I wonder how much Boeing is paying the .gov to ignore it.

Clearly this isn’t the case. Twice.

Same happened on that AA 767 that caught fire in ORD. They found sections of one of this discs a half mile away in the UPS facility so it’s not just a CFM issue. Luck again they didn’t wind up in the cabin, especially seeing as the failed engine was opposite the side where the UPS building is.

Accident: American B763 at Chicago on Oct 28th 2016, rejected takeoff, fire at right hand wing due to uncontained engine failure (http://avherald.com/h?article=49ffa115&opt=0)

Smooth at FL450
04-18-2018, 01:48 PM
Not looking good for southwest


Not looking good??? Lol. An airline is supposed to control birds? Just how exactly does this reflect poorly on Southwest?

Peacock
04-18-2018, 02:49 PM
Clearly this isn’t the case. Twice.

Same happened on that AA 767 that caught fire in ORD. They found sections of one of this discs a half mile away in the UPS facility so it’s not just a CFM issue. Luck again they didn’t wind up in the cabin, especially seeing as the failed engine was opposite the side where the UPS building is.

Accident: American B763 at Chicago on Oct 28th 2016, rejected takeoff, fire at right hand wing due to uncontained engine failure (http://avherald.com/h?article=49ffa115&opt=0)

United 777 going to Hawaii a month or two ago lost the engine cowl.

Mesabah
04-18-2018, 04:18 PM
United 777 going to Hawaii a month or two ago lost the engine cowl.
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, the 737 seems quite a bit more violent.

http://i66.tinypic.com/2l9rupy.jpg

Peacock
04-18-2018, 04:25 PM
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, the 737 seems quite a bit more violent.

http://i66.tinypic.com/2l9rupy.jpg
Looks pretty similar to me. One blade gone, cowling AFU. Where the blade goes, and whether the cowling or other debris damages the wing or tail determines whether it’s bad or really bad.

Castle Bravo
04-18-2018, 04:56 PM
There were female instructor fighter pilots before there were female combat fighter pilots IIRC.

The SWA CA was an early (earliest?) transfer to fighters, and flew as an Aggressor Sq pilot in a land based Sq. Stayed in the Reserves until 2000 or so.
Bravo Zulu.

TCASTESTOK
04-18-2018, 08:29 PM
Not looking good??? Lol. An airline is supposed to control birds? Just how exactly does this reflect poorly on Southwest?
Pax might consider SWA to be unsafe with 2 emergencies 1 fatal in 2 days. Similar to how pax are already concerned over in the Allegiant section after that 60 minutes piece aired. Not that SWA is like Allegiant. Its night and day with great reputable mx practices unlike with Allegiant.
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/allegiant/112987-allegiant-safety-concerned-passenger.html

at6d
04-18-2018, 09:24 PM
How many flights a day from the largest domestic carrier? Still very safe.

WHACKMASTER
04-18-2018, 10:22 PM
How many flights a day from the largest domestic carrier? Still very safe.

4,000.....

at6d
04-18-2018, 10:25 PM
Only 1.45 million per year!

rickair7777
04-19-2018, 06:50 AM
How many flights a day from the largest domestic carrier? Still very safe.

Unfortunately people reading media reports don't divide that by the number of daily flights. A large airline could be statistically much safer than a small ond but still get more bad press.

Castle Bravo
04-19-2018, 06:59 AM
There are Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics. I.E. the Concorde had the safest accident rate in commercial pax aviation until 25 July 2000, and then suddenly it had the worst accident rate in the history of commercial pax aviation. All because of a single crash.

America is full of Sheeple being led by the nose by their smartphone and the MSM media. Most sheeple have their head so far up their App they no longer can discern truth from lies. Companies have to have a very savvy PR dept, but more importantly, they have to hope for a new idiot to come along quickly and say "Hold my beer and watch this!"
Then the Sheeple will follow the new idiot's story...

Floyd
04-19-2018, 08:54 AM
AA suggests the captain to be PM during an an emergency/non-normal. I’m sure other airlines do as well.

United does as well. FO is PF and works radios.

terminal
04-19-2018, 10:05 AM
The real hero is Southwest's PR machine.

f10a
04-19-2018, 02:37 PM
What if, by chance, 2 captains are flying together?

MarvinB
04-19-2018, 02:53 PM
What if, by chance, 2 captains are flying together?

Then they both have to don Borak type wrestling suits and fight to the death for leadership, or the left seater does it.

SlipKid
04-20-2018, 06:48 AM
What if, by chance, 2 captains are flying together?

Not sure if that's a serious question, but, other than check airmen, SW Capts are not right seat qualified. We used to be when we were allowed to seat swap with the lances, but that was a long time ago.

shaun3000
04-20-2018, 07:55 AM
What is/was a Lance?

e6bpilot
04-20-2018, 08:15 AM
What is/was a Lance?



Captain qualified FO. There are only a few of them. You can do it for 12 months as a very senior FO.

Loon
04-20-2018, 09:48 AM
Unfortunately people reading media reports don't divide that by the number of daily flights. A large airline could be statistically much safer than a small ond but still get more bad press.

There is no such thing as "bad publicity".

Smooth at FL450
04-20-2018, 11:36 AM
Pax might consider SWA to be unsafe with 2 emergencies 1 fatal in 2 days. Similar to how pax are already concerned over in the Allegiant section after that 60 minutes piece aired. Not that SWA is like Allegiant. Its night and day with great reputable mx practices unlike with Allegiant.
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/allegiant/112987-allegiant-safety-concerned-passenger.html

I'm sure SWA will be just fine. In the first event, the crew is be lauded for their actions. The second event barely made a blip on the news radar and nobody was hurt during an event the company has zero control over.

rickair7777
04-20-2018, 07:33 PM
There is no such thing as "bad publicity".

Generally true, but there's an exception to every rule and I think airlines are it for this one.

THEKERNALKLINK
04-21-2018, 07:46 PM
I've seen several airline policies recently recommending that the CA manage and the FO fly up until final, and then the CA takes over if there are going to be any unusual landing characteristics. The policies allow for PIC discretion as needed, ie they can deviate if warranted.

Their are a lot of other factors. Sulley says the main reason he took control is because he had more time on type, but even more so than that is that all the diversion points were on HIS side, so it just made sense.

Too many variables, no cookie cutter here. Despite doing this many times in training, when running through this in my head I missed a couple of things that would have been picked up on the check lists. So it's a blend of instincts and policy that makes for a successful outcome, but let me say this, those engines are on both Boeing and Airbus and with pretty much every airline. Time will tell if their is a policy issue on the mech side, but the one thing we do know as of right now is that their was no mistakes made by any of the flight crew.

Would I have done anything different? I think I would have given the heading knob a twist, so that when I dropped, I'd be out of the muck of other traffic. WHICH SHE MIGHT HAVE DONE, I just didn't see that she did that anywhere. That is total arm chair quarterbacking though.

Somebody lost their life. In my humble opinion, that makes any sarcasm and jest plain old disgusting. That crew will have to live with that for the rest of their lives.

My career has been ever so boring and routine, and for that I am forever grateful.

THEKERNALKLINK
04-21-2018, 07:52 PM
Even if maintenance is to blame for poor work, (not insinuating that at all) CFM has a huge problem on its hands. Two uncontained failures that sent shrapnel into the wing and fuselage certainly does not meet certification standards.

This is splitting hairs, but neither of our incidents were technically "uncontained" meaning we never had a fan blade make it out, but the shaking was enough to cause other components to become unattached and strike the fuselage.

MarkVI
04-23-2018, 03:35 AM
My career has been ever so boring and routine, and for that I am forever grateful.


This. This is a pilot who knows how to pilot. Never stop thinking that way, Friend.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SlipKid
04-23-2018, 06:38 AM
This. This is a pilot who knows how to pilot. Never stop thinking that way, Friend.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Amen....

Whenever folks refer to airline flying as boring, I say the same thing.

tomgoodman
04-23-2018, 07:11 AM
Amen....

Whenever folks refer to airline flying as boring, I say the same thing.

Well, we did have that incident involving the loose guinea pig... :p

PowderFinger
04-23-2018, 07:35 AM
Well, we did have that incident involving the loose guinea pig... :p

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RfokNnioQx4

VB Hornet
05-02-2018, 09:51 AM
So was there an FO in the plane? Apparently, only one pilot went to the White House. Does SWA fly single pilot?

http://thehill.com/policy/transportation/aviation/385707-trump-praises-pilot-who-landed-deadly-southwest-airlines

WHACKMASTER
05-02-2018, 10:02 AM
There was but as we all know, he/she never touches the controls :rolleyes:

Moronic media....

VB Hornet
05-02-2018, 10:06 AM
Every time Sully was interviewed he discussed the entire crew. I can't imagine what the Flight Attendants had to deal with during the emergency. And I suspect the FO did something during the emergency. Unless he was taking a nap. I can't believe how bad the media is.

Kalamazoo
05-02-2018, 11:30 AM
FOs obviously aren't pilots so.....

f10a
05-02-2018, 05:45 PM
I can't believe Trump paraded the crew at the White House for conducting an emergency descent and landing (sim session 4). And why did CA Tammy even accept to be paraded along with the crew and nameless FO. Embarrassing to say the least.

Jeff Lebowski
05-02-2018, 06:10 PM
I can't believe Trump paraded the crew at the White House for conducting an emergency descent and landing (sim session 4). And why did CA Tammy even accept to be paraded along with the crew and nameless FO. Embarrassing to say the least.

While I'm not a yuge fan of our 45th president, or the mediocre reality TV show he seems bent on transforming the executive branch into, I didn't much mind what little I saw of the ceremony. Trump went out of his way to recognize everyone from that flight, to remember the passenger who lost her life, and he did so in a way that went beyond politics. That's what leaders are supposed to do.

As for bagging on Captain Shults, I think it's a bit of a low blow to single her out for attending. When you find yourself thrust into the spotlight as she has, everything you do tends to send a message. If she'd have snubbed the President, can you imagine what the story would have turned into, or how that could have blown back on the company she represents?

I have no idea what her politics are. For all I know, she might even like the guy, and that's her prerogative. Either way, I was glad to see the whole crew there.

wjcandee
05-02-2018, 07:40 PM
I thought it was nice that everybody got to go to the WH, including the FO, FAs, nurse and paramedic. To choose sides on that is silly. I always respect the office, even if I don't love the Guy.

Rolf
05-02-2018, 09:06 PM
Saving puppies, hand delivering lost jewelry and this WH meeting seems like good PR for our profession. Am I missing something?

C130driver
05-02-2018, 09:59 PM
Saving puppies, hand delivering lost jewelry and this WH meeting seems like good PR for our profession. Am I missing something?

My thoughts exactly! Regardless of ones’ politics, it’s pretty cool that the pilot is getting WH recognition for a job well done.

at6d
05-03-2018, 12:22 AM
If the President invites you to the White House, you go. It’s a great honor, even if you don’t like him/her. We need some heroes right now.

f10a
05-03-2018, 03:20 AM
I fail to see how one is considered a hero for performing an emergency descent and landing. It's what you're trained to do, over and over. Let's see.... Don the o2 mask, establish comm, FLC, spin the speed knob up to mmo and deploy the speed brakes.... Hero. Ok. Now.. The FAs on the other hand, they might be heros for saving a life etc.. Trump owns a 757, he should know better what his pilots do for training instead of making this a PR stunt imo.

ecam
05-03-2018, 04:52 AM
Everyone apparently missed the irony of a president who claimed personal credit for the safest era in US aviation (which he had nothing to do with), inviting the crew of the first US air fatality in a decade to the WH for a publicity stunt worthy of a 3rd world dictatorship. Parading people in front of cameras and presiding over them like Our Most Benevolent Dear Leader. This man has no shame.

Sure, when the POTUS invites you, you show respect, but I'd probably have had personal obligations preventing my attendance. Perhaps as a Navy vet, she felt some sort of obligation to participate. Or maybe SWA PR made them attend...

tomgoodman
05-03-2018, 05:05 AM
Saving puppies, hand delivering lost jewelry and this WH meeting seems like good PR for our profession. Am I missing something?

Good deeds must be condemned if they were performed by a person we dislike. :rolleyes:

TransWorld
05-03-2018, 05:13 AM
I fail to see how one is considered a hero for performing an emergency descent and landing. It's what you're trained to do, over and over. Let's see.... Don the o2 mask, establish comm, FLC, spin the speed knob up to mmo and deploy the speed brakes.... Hero. Ok. Now.. The FAs on the other hand, they might be heros for saving a life etc.. Trump owns a 757, he should know better what his pilots do for training instead of making this a PR stunt imo.

Same with professional sports teams. They are trained to win championships. All they are doing is what they are trained to do. Why should they be invited to the White House by any President?

Tongue firmly planted in my cheek. . .

Loon
05-03-2018, 05:30 AM
Saving puppies, hand delivering lost jewelry and this WH meeting seems like good PR for our profession. Am I missing something?

Nope, just a bunch of people still p.o.'d that Trump is the prez(and doing a helluva job) and also people scared of women pilots.
I applaud the wh meeting and my swapa brethren, et al as well.

Bluesideup1
05-03-2018, 12:33 PM
Everyone apparently missed the irony of a president who claimed personal credit for the safest era in US aviation (which he had nothing to do with), inviting the crew of the first US air fatality in a decade to the WH for a publicity stunt worthy of a 3rd world dictatorship. Parading people in front of cameras and presiding over them like Our Most Benevolent Dear Leader. This man has no shame.

Sure, when the POTUS invites you, you show respect, but I'd probably have had personal obligations preventing my attendance. Perhaps as a Navy vet, she felt some sort of obligation to participate. Or maybe SWA PR made them attend...


Kind of like the irony of a president who has armed security 24/7, lives in a gated community with armed guards inviting a bunch of the kids who have been victims of gun violence and parading them through the media to push an agenda?

Except I don't think you know what irony is as this has nothing to do with safety other than the safe emergency decent and landing that was done by the whole crew.

What publicity stunt did Trump pull? Recognition of an exemplary job well done is what all presidents do or did you not see Forest Gump (I need to pee)?



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