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tom11011
04-17-2018, 08:03 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2018/04/17/boeing-provided-pilots-to-replace-avianca-pilots-who-were-fired-for-striking-alpa-says/#a4a851476c60


VSTOLG4
04-17-2018, 08:51 PM
good on the single pilot that refused...may he find loyalty and employment soon.

flensr
04-17-2018, 09:11 PM
Sounds like Boeing is ok destroying pilot's careers as long as they are employed by an independent contractor or regular airline pilots who were fired during a strike. Is that the deal? Seriously, why would Boeing get involved in an airline's labor dispute in the first place, even through a contractor? Seems like a lose-lose proposition and they're trying to pass it off like it's no big deal.

Those contractors took the jobs of 12 airline pilots who were fired during or after the strike, another contractor who refused to steal someone else's job got fired, and Boeing made it happen. How else can this be accurately described?


cactusflyer
04-17-2018, 11:07 PM
Boeing has a history of anti-union behavior (taking tax breaks from Washington, then outsourcing a bunch of jobs to non-union plants in South Carolina), so I'm not at all surprised that they'd get involved in that kind of stuff if enough money exchanged hands.

Sniper66
04-18-2018, 01:25 AM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2018/04/17/boeing-provided-pilots-to-replace-avianca-pilots-who-were-fired-for-striking-alpa-says/#a4a851476c60







Thank god Delta is buying American made Airbuses
Screw Boeing.They are the biggest thread to US Airlines
M3 and NAI comes to mind as well

jcountry
04-18-2018, 04:05 AM
I am very disappointed in Boeing (again, and again.)

The ME3 and NAI are tremendous threats to our industry, and Boeing is 100% behind them. In fact, Boeing talked Trump into supporting (or not killing) this flag-of-convenience plague to begin with.

Al Czervik
04-18-2018, 05:20 AM
FU Boeing. Apparently your ethics suck like your 737. Give me an Airbus for the rest of my career

A330FoodCritic
04-18-2018, 05:27 AM
FU Boeing. Apparently your ethics suck like your 737. Give me an Airbus for the rest of my career

And after your career as a passenger.

Was on newer 737, LAX - LAS, my small backpack couldn't even fit under the uncomfortable seat. Same backpack easily fits under Airbus seat. New seats looked good, too bad they were a POS.

hilltopflyer
04-18-2018, 06:01 AM
Good for that one pilot. May good luck be on his side. To the other 11 please add their name to the scab list.

tom11011
04-18-2018, 06:12 AM
Who is the maintainer of the scab list?

https://file.wikileaks.org/file/airline-pilot-scab-list-2004.pdf

filejw
04-18-2018, 06:25 AM
Good for that one pilot. May good luck be on his side. To the other 11 please add their name to the scab list.

Unfortunately you have to be a strike breaker to be on the scab list . This strike was over in November per the article above and other sources I have read. This deal is reprehensible no doubt but doesn’t surprise me coming from Boeing.

hilltopflyer
04-18-2018, 06:38 AM
Unfortunately you have to be a strike breaker to be on the scab list . This strike was over in November per the article above and other sources I have read. This deal is reprehensible no doubt but doesn’t surprise me coming from Boeing.

But the pilots were fired during the strike (might be wrong) so it would still apply

filejw
04-18-2018, 08:38 AM
But the pilots were fired during the strike (might be wrong) so it would still apply
Think you are. Ill have to reread my other sources but I'm sure I read that these firings are post strike as a management retribution for striking.

DarkSideMoon
04-18-2018, 10:44 AM
Think you are. Ill have to reread my other sources but I'm sure I read that these firings are post strike as a management retribution for striking.

How is that any different?

rickair7777
04-18-2018, 11:53 AM
How is that any different?

It's a grey area, but without a clear consensus of established tradition it's a very slippery slope to expand the definition of scab. Pretty soon everybody becomes a scab and it has no meaning.

USMCFLYR
04-18-2018, 12:18 PM
How is that any different?
Because the strike was over - so no picket line was crossed?

The issue of course is the WHY the pilots were fired (supposed retribution), but otherwise are you going to call ANY pilot who takes a job with that airline hence forth a 'scab' because they took a job that use to belong to a pilot who was fired? When does stop? Is this label only applied to the first 12 pilots hired?

SCAB means something very distinct in the aviation culture.
The term often gets thrown around on the boards improperly.

DarkSideMoon
04-18-2018, 01:00 PM
Because the strike was over - so no picket line was crossed?

The issue of course is the WHY the pilots were fired (supposed retribution), but otherwise are you going to call ANY pilot who takes a job with that airline hence forth a 'scab' because they took a job that use to belong to a pilot who was fired? When does stop? Is this label only applied to the first 12 pilots hired?

SCAB means something very distinct in the aviation culture.
The term often gets thrown around on the boards improperly.

The pilots were hired specifically to replace pilots fired as a direct result of striking. Even if it isn't "scabbing" the pilots that chose to replace the pilots that struck should face the same consequences. Good on the one pilot who has the guts to realize it was wrong and refuse.

mpet
04-18-2018, 01:34 PM
yeah.. even if no picket lined crossed.. they are flying work that should have been flown by wrongfully terminated guys who were on strike... if they aren't 'scabs' they are pretty ******* close.

Qotsaautopilot
04-18-2018, 06:48 PM
If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck... it’s a scab. I think it’s pretty clear in this situation.

hilltopflyer
04-18-2018, 09:37 PM
The pilots got fired for striking. Now the Boeing pilots step right in. That sounds like a scab

HuggyU2
04-18-2018, 09:46 PM
I asked this on another thread, but didn't get any responses. I'll ask here, since I don't know the answers:

- If these Boeing-supplied American-citizen pilots actually fly for Avianca, and then later get a job with an ALPA-represented US carrier later, would they be allowed to be an ALPA member?

- If a Colombian pilot crosses the Avianca picket line, and then in a few years flies for an ALPA-represented US carrier, would they be allowed to be an ALPA member?

- If this situation were happening at a small foreign airlines like Jambojet (that isn't known in the US), would the implications of crossing the picket line be the same, WRT joining ALPA later?

Lawn Boy
04-19-2018, 01:40 PM
These jahgawfs stay at our hotel in BOG. I knew there was something off about them when I would see them at B'fast. FWIW, I didn't hear any American accents from them. The one dude was Canadian. Others were UK. I think one was South African. IDK. But they definitely look the part.

All In
04-19-2018, 07:18 PM
I am absolutely against what Boeing did. But like couple others pointed out, i'm not certain they are actually scabs. Did they cross a picket line and fly struck work?
Its not the first time hostages were taken during a strike. Or the last.
Admittedly i don't have all the details here. But why would the rest of the pilot group vote in a contract, ending the strike, and going back to work that didn't bring those terminated pilots back. That should've been page 1, line 1.

DarkSideMoon
04-20-2018, 02:36 AM
I am absolutely against what Boeing did. But like couple others pointed out, i'm not certain they are actually scabs. Did they cross a picket line and fly struck work?
Its not the first time hostages were taken during a strike. Or the last.
Admittedly i don't have all the details here. But why would the rest of the pilot group vote in a contract, ending the strike, and going back to work that didn't bring those terminated pilots back. That should've been page 1, line 1.
Unless they fired them in retaliation the day after the strike ended.

Gone Flying
04-20-2018, 07:44 AM
At the bottom of the scab list is a "you be the judge" section with a list of people who while technically did not scab, had every intention to. Maybe add them to this part of the list.

Qotsaautopilot
04-20-2018, 05:43 PM
I am absolutely against what Boeing did. But like couple others pointed out, i'm not certain they are actually scabs. Did they cross a picket line and fly struck work?
Its not the first time hostages were taken during a strike. Or the last.
Admittedly i don't have all the details here. But why would the rest of the pilot group vote in a contract, ending the strike, and going back to work that didn't bring those terminated pilots back. That should've been page 1, line 1.

I don’t have all the facts but my understanding is the company started systematically firing over 100 pilots After the strike was over. Also, this is another country not operating under the RLA so I don’t even know if the strike ended with a new contract or not. Either way, these Boeing pilots are replacing pilots who were fired for striking. I’d say the definition of scab is narrow but broad enough to include these A holes.

Word from the few ex-avianca guys we’ve recently hired at Spirit is that avianca has airbuses sitting idle because they fired so many pilots. The 787 was their smallest but also the most profitable so they pled with Boeing to get it up and running again. Boring obliged.

baseball
04-21-2018, 12:02 PM
Someone needs to find out who these bums are and publish their names. The Boeing replacement pilots are indeed SCABS. For the rest of their lives they will be known as such. Pilots on a lawful strike. Replacements are indeed scabs.

Airhoss
04-22-2018, 06:32 AM
Someone needs to find out who these bums are and publish their names. The Boeing replacement pilots are indeed SCABS. For the rest of their lives they will be known as such. Pilots on a lawful strike. Replacements are indeed scabs.

I’m guessing Columbia might not be the safest country to openly scab in. Just sayin. Those dudes might want to be very careful.

BMEP100
04-22-2018, 08:15 AM
I’m guessing Columbia might not be the safest country to openly scab in. Just sayin. Those dudes might want to be very careful.

Actually, it's the other way round. Stickers and picketers are at greater risk.

Airhoss
04-22-2018, 08:59 PM
Actually, it's the other way round. Stickers and picketers are at greater risk.

I wonder how much it would cost to have somebody severely “educated” in a town like Bogota?

PowderFinger
04-24-2018, 03:15 AM
I wonder how much it would cost to have somebody severely “educated” in a town like Bogota?

Get an address and I will contribute $10.

Hrkdrivr
04-24-2018, 10:39 AM
Someone needs to find out who these bums are and publish their names. The Boeing replacement pilots are indeed SCABS. For the rest of their lives they will be known as such. Pilots on a lawful strike. Replacements are indeed scabs.


On Page 3 of a more recent Forbes article than the one the OP posted,
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2018/04/23/as-boeing-provides-pilots-to-replace-avianca-strikers-u-s-pilots-raise-concerns/#45fe1d3a5618)
it says the strike wasn't legal (emphasis mine):

In a prepared statement, Avianca noted that ACDAC’s strike has been declared illegal by the Superior Tribunal of Bogota and the Colombian Supreme Court.

“One of the consequences of illegally conducting an illegal strike is that the contracts of individuals who participated in it may be terminated as a result of disciplinary proceedings that safeguard the right of defense, which is what Avianca is doing,” the carrier said.

BUT, the same article, on Page 1, also has this nugget about the company on contract to Boeing that employs those pilots (emphasis mine):

The contractor, Cambridge Communications Limited, is based in the Isle of Man in the British Isles. In a circular advertising for experienced pilots willing to fly for client Boeing Pilot Services for $547.95 per day, it said applicants “must have no issues with union busting or strike breaking.”

hilltopflyer
04-24-2018, 10:48 AM
On Page 3 of a more recent Forbes article than the one the OP posted,
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2018/04/23/as-boeing-provides-pilots-to-replace-avianca-strikers-u-s-pilots-raise-concerns/#45fe1d3a5618)
it says the strike wasn't legal (emphasis mine):



BUT, the same article, on Page 1, also has this nugget about the company on contract to Boeing that employs those pilots (emphasis mine):

And these guys are ok with becoming a scab making 500 bucks a day.....

Typhoonpilot
04-24-2018, 03:04 PM
On Page 3 of a more recent Forbes article than the one the OP posted,
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed.../#45fe1d3a5618)
it says the strike wasn't legal (emphasis mine):



Colombia’s Constitution guarantees freedom of association and provides for collective bargaining and the right to strike (with some exceptions).

Strikes, when held in accordance with the law, are recognized as legal instruments to obtain better working conditions, and employers are prohibited from using strike-breakers at any time during the course of a strike. After 60 days of strike action, the parties are subject to compulsory arbitration. Strikes are prohibited in certain “essential public services,” as defined by law, although Colombia has been criticized for having an overly-broad interpretation of “essential.”

That is what happened with the ACDAC strike against Avianca. A judge ruled that the airlines/aviation was an "essential public service" thus making the strike "illegal".

A sampling of Colombian court "impartiality":

https://colombiareports.com/biggest-corruption-crisis-in-constitutional-court-history-no-reason-for-president-to-resign/

DarkSideMoon
04-24-2018, 03:17 PM
Colombia’s Constitution guarantees freedom of association and provides for collective bargaining and the right to strike (with some exceptions).

Strikes, when held in accordance with the law, are recognized as legal instruments to obtain better working conditions, and employers are prohibited from using strike-breakers at any time during the course of a strike. After 60 days of strike action, the parties are subject to compulsory arbitration. Strikes are prohibited in certain “essential public services,” as defined by law, although Colombia has been criticized for having an overly-broad interpretation of “essential.”

That is what happened with the ACDAC strike against Avianca. A judge ruled that the airlines/aviation was an "essential public service" thus making the strike "illegal".

A sampling of Colombian court "impartiality":

https://colombiareports.com/biggest-corruption-crisis-in-constitutional-court-history-no-reason-for-president-to-resign/
Sounds a lot like the states.

FlyingNasaForm
04-26-2018, 03:31 AM
I saw this on Twitter (https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=Avianca%2BBoeing%20&src=typed_query).

WHACKMASTER
04-26-2018, 05:51 AM
I saw this on Twitter (https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=Avianca%2BBoeing%20&src=typed_query).

Nice. Thanks. The scab’s names are listed in one post if you scroll down. Be sure to take a screenshot in their “memory”.

PowderFinger
05-01-2018, 04:21 AM
Nice. Thanks. The scab’s names are listed in one post if you scroll down. Be sure to take a screenshot in their “memory”.

Thanks all. Got the names.

WHACKMASTER
05-01-2018, 07:42 AM
Thanks all. Got the names.

Good. Now y’all send it to your friends. Let’s hope these scabs know that their names are out there now.

SactisbonesBJ
05-01-2018, 09:05 AM
I saw this on Twitter (https://mobile.twitter.com/search?q=Avianca%2BBoeing%20&src=typed_query).

Nice. Thanks. The scab’s names are listed in one post if you scroll down. Be sure to take a screenshot in their “memory”.

Just drop some of them a line and tell them how you feel:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lloyd-anderson-b2b9b883/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-larson-4583b276/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/giovanni-human-8333b1b6/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/grant-felesky-6bb6b545

https://www.linkedin.com/in/william-viglas-9a1625a8/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/oliver-walker-2a916941/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kinseys/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ray-capps-1131a950/

WHACKMASTER
05-01-2018, 09:15 AM
Just drop some of them a line and tell them how you feel:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lloyd-anderson-b2b9b883/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-larson-4583b276/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/giovanni-human-8333b1b6/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/grant-felesky-6bb6b545

https://www.linkedin.com/in/william-viglas-9a1625a8/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/oliver-walker-2a916941/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kinseys/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ray-capps-1131a950/

Lmao. I love you man.