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Phrog Phlyer
04-18-2018, 05:37 PM
Envoy is forcing anyone qualified to upgrade. If they fail, it's a pink slip and they are gone. Now there is talk vacations will be canceled over the summer peak flying season due to the inability to hire sufficient pilots to cover their flying.

Pilots forced to upgrade and being uprooted to junior domiciles and put onto an inferior reserve system are choosing to quit rather than be subjected to abuse when other airlines are offering much more desirable positions.

Can Envoy pilots testify to these truisms? Will a few management pilots deny it and post how great life at Envoy can be?


Seaplane
04-18-2018, 06:08 PM
Uhhh they need CAs so why pink slip a guy who fails... with AQP everything is retrainable. If youíre a CA or about to be a CA then you do have some leverage, not much, but some. If you are a new hire FO and screw up, then yes expect to be handed the pink slip. FOs are a dime a dozen, CAs not so much.

Pedro4President
04-18-2018, 06:37 PM
Envoy is forcing anyone qualified to upgrade. If they fail, it's a pink slip and they are gone. Now there is talk vacations will be canceled over the summer peak flying season due to the inability to hire sufficient pilots to cover their flying.

Pilots forced to upgrade and being uprooted to junior domiciles and put onto an inferior reserve system are choosing to quit rather than be subjected to abuse when other airlines are offering much more desirable positions.

Can Envoy pilots testify to these truisms? Will a few management pilots deny it and post how great life at Envoy can be?


Waste of a new thread. All these topics are being or haven recently been discussed on here.

The truth and lies are so tightly woven together in your post. I have had a pretty fantastic career here at Envoy over the past two years. Prior to Fall of 2016 it was horrible. My biggest complaint with our contract and company is that we have clear winners and losers when it comes to pay and QOL. Some of the pilots have it great and some get abused. Just because someone says they have a great time at Envoy and another says the opposite doesn't mean one or the other is lying. It is just a byproduct of the cluster the company and union created.


SilentLurker
04-18-2018, 09:19 PM
Uhhh they need CAs so why pink slip a guy who fails... with AQP everything is retrainable. If youíre a CA or about to be a CA then you do have some leverage, not much, but some. If you are a new hire FO and screw up, then yes expect to be handed the pink slip. FOs are a dime a dozen, CAs not so much.


When the company takes away the NH bonus then we can say FOís are a dime of dozen like the times of old. Until then, this company needs FOs, yet not as badly as CAís (a self inflicted dilemma).

I wonder what would happen if these NH bonuses stop, and the pay rate increases given to CAís on property, along with better QOL contract /language Iím sure the CA shortage issue will end. Im sure some sort of parity years of service pay would also bring CA qualified NHís. Iím sure they would flood in. Thanks to Pay & QOL increases.

We are really missing the ball when wasting dollars trying save a few pennies (HVA). IMHO. Why so much focus by the union on flow flow flow by guys who are ready to flow within a year or better. Cant company violate any new or weak language agreement and let it go to arbitration years later and pay the cost down the road?

Money can solve any problem any corporation like AAG has IF the problem is important enough to that corporation.

SilentLurker
04-18-2018, 09:51 PM
Waste of a new thread. All these topics are being or haven recently been discussed on here.

The truth and lies are so tightly woven together in your post. I have had a pretty fantastic career here at Envoy over the past two years. Prior to Fall of 2016 it was horrible. My biggest complaint with our contract and company is that we have clear winners and losers when it comes to pay and QOL. Some of the pilots have it great and some get abused. Just because someone says they have a great time at Envoy and another says the opposite doesn't mean one or the other is lying. It is just a byproduct of the cluster the company and union created.



I agree. Many air-pockets and Swiss-cheese holes that allows for divisiveness amongst the group. Some winners, some losers indeed. Many I speak with are somewhat concerned with the present direct and future. Being told the sky is very blue and that winds are more fair now than ever before; some believe it, yet it does not appear, feel or seem like that to the other half.

cr700
04-19-2018, 05:16 AM
Waste of a new thread. All these topics are being or haven recently been discussed on here.

The truth and lies are so tightly woven together in your post. I have had a pretty fantastic career here at Envoy over the past two years. Prior to Fall of 2016 it was horrible. My biggest complaint with our contract and company is that we have clear winners and losers when it comes to pay and QOL. Some of the pilots have it great and some get abused. Just because someone says they have a great time at Envoy and another says the opposite doesn't mean one or the other is lying. It is just a byproduct of the cluster the company and union created.

^^^^This. Great attitude. You've seen improvement in the past two years and it will keep trending better going forward. Best thing you can do is ignore all the negative stereotypes here and focus on the good. Note that another 27 guys flowed to AA this month.

MD-11Loader
04-19-2018, 05:50 AM
Manage your hours properly and you donít have to upgrade, especially if youíre 145 ORD. Go back to reserve when you hit 850-900, never fly, and upgrade when you want to. There are ways to be smart about this. Donít let the mentality of the upper management win. The more ďhigh timeĒ f/oís who do this the better off we are. It will get more and more people close to 1,000 hours, but not crossing it. Iím not letting RW tell me that I have to upgrade. Iím upgrading when I want to upgrade.

Bigpimppilot
04-19-2018, 06:23 AM
Will it (always) continue to trend better?

Pedro4President
04-19-2018, 06:31 AM
^^^^This. Great attitude. You've seen improvement in the past two years and it will keep trending better going forward. Best thing you can do is ignore all the negative stereotypes here and focus on the good. Note that another 27 guys flowed to AA this month.

NO!!!! There hasn't been improvements. What improvements are you talking about? The same person in my seniority that has to commute to Envoy would probably be divorced right now. I know I would be if I had to commute to this airline and be on reserve for much longer. The ONLY change has been an increase in hiring.

Reserve needs to be fixed. Forcing upgrades out of seniority needs to be stopped. Flow needs to be 50% per the contract. PO and PVDs need to be awarded. Schedules need to be fixed. Changing fatigue calls to missed assignments needs to stop. Firing someone for calling in sick 4 times in 12 months needs to stop. Pretty sure others can add to the list.

E175 Driver
04-19-2018, 08:29 AM
Manage your hours properly and you donít have to upgrade, especially if youíre 145 ORD. Go back to reserve when you hit 850-900, never fly, and upgrade when you want to. There are ways to be smart about this. Donít let the mentality of the upper management win. The more ďhigh timeĒ f/oís who do this the better off we are. It will get more and more people close to 1,000 hours, but not crossing it. Iím not letting RW tell me that I have to upgrade. Iím upgrading when I want to upgrade.

thats a catch 22. The sooner you get that PIC the better. More opportunities to get out.

E175 Driver
04-19-2018, 08:30 AM
NO!!!! There hasn't been improvements. What improvements are you talking about? The same person in my seniority that has to commute to Envoy would probably be divorced right now. I know I would be if I had to commute to this airline and be on reserve for much longer. The ONLY change has been an increase in hiring.

Reserve needs to be fixed. Forcing upgrades out of seniority needs to be stopped. Flow needs to be 50% per the contract. PO and PVDs need to be awarded. Schedules need to be fixed. Changing fatigue calls to missed assignments needs to stop. Firing someone for calling in sick 4 times in 12 months needs to stop. Pretty sure others can add to the list.

Im happy here. Single, no kids. Freedom.

The Unsub
04-19-2018, 08:51 AM
Im happy here. Single, no kids. Freedom.

Thatís because nobody can stand you let alone bang you.

EmbaeDriver
04-19-2018, 09:07 AM
Reserve 4 life

MD-11Loader
04-19-2018, 10:15 AM
thats a catch 22. The sooner you get that PIC the better. More opportunities to get out.

Yes, but I also view it as this is my last opportunity to have good schedules and control for a decade or more. Once I upgrade then I go to the bottom of the heap, reserve, possibly commuting, and **** poor days off. Then I flow and start it all again. Delaying an upgrade by one or two vacancy bids isnít going to kill me. It will allow me to have my summer the way that I want it and not spend in DFW being told by people that ďreserve is supposed to suckĒ and ďthereís nothing that needs to be fixed.Ē

JohnBurke
04-19-2018, 10:20 AM
I have had a pretty fantastic career here at Envoy over the past two years.

Two years is a career??

cr700
04-19-2018, 10:37 AM
NO!!!! There hasn't been improvements. What improvements are you talking about? The same person in my seniority that has to commute to Envoy would probably be divorced right now. I know I would be if I had to commute to this airline and be on reserve for much longer. The ONLY change has been an increase in hiring.

Reserve needs to be fixed. Forcing upgrades out of seniority needs to be stopped. Flow needs to be 50% per the contract. PO and PVDs need to be awarded. Schedules need to be fixed. Changing fatigue calls to missed assignments needs to stop. Firing someone for calling in sick 4 times in 12 months needs to stop. Pretty sure others can add to the list.

How do you explain gushing about your fantastic career at Envoy over the past two years and then turn around with this type of post? Makes no sense.

E175 Driver
04-19-2018, 10:39 AM
Thatís because nobody can stand you let alone bang you.

Ha Ha Ha hilarious.:rolleyes:

Pedro4President
04-19-2018, 05:24 PM
How do you explain gushing about your fantastic career at Envoy over the past two years and then turn around with this type of post? Makes no sense.

lol. Where have I ever gushed?? At Envoy there are winners and losers. It's good for some and Not good for others. Nothing substantial changed with the company making it better. I just got lucky on the company screw up. I was a fairly senior FO on reserve that was over staffed while the CA list was severely short. I didn't fly much because there weren't any CAs to fly with and I lived in base. So while I was flying 6-7 days a month and crediting 115 my CAs were getting junior manned into three day trips. So I maintain over the past two years my QOL has been good but others are still suffering commuting on reserve and unable to fly. Uncomfortable 4 on 2 off sequences. And the list goes on.

Pedro4President
04-19-2018, 05:37 PM
Two years is a career??

It's not very smooth to post smart *ss comments to a post you misread.



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